Part 1 | Truth and Deception

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast. Or I tell stories of real

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crimes with real victims whose cases are
so shocking that many are left wondering how

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is this even real? I use
my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and

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combined with my years as a criminal
justice educator, dig deep into complex cases

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of evil acts, some so evil
many feel they are unspeakable. Warning,

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Unspeakable is intended for mature audiences.
If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is
advised. Hey y'all, kJ you're back

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for another episode of Unspeakable? What
is going on? What is going on?

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Look? People, I have got
paper cuts all over my fingers.

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I have personally licked a billion and
a half stamps. I am mailing you

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your quarterly gifts. You need to
be checking your mailboxes. If you are

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part of the crime family, it
is coming your way and I think you're

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gonna like it. It's gonna be
awesome, So be checking. They kind

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of are going out in waves.
But look for your quarterly gifts. You're

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gonna like them. And then I
wanted to remind y'all too. If you're

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local in Denim Springs, we have
Springfest coming up. That's Saturday, April

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twenty seventh, and it's gonna be
from nine to four thirty. And guess

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who's gonna be there with all of
her T shirts and everything else. And

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we'll be taking pictures yours. Truly, I'll be there, so y'all come

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see me. Put it on your
calendar. Nine to four thirty, Saturday,

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April twenty seventh, Springfest right there
in downtown Denim Springs. It's gonna

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be a whole lot of fun.
And I like meeting y'all and taking the

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pictures. And I am super excited
about this case that I'm about to do

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because a lot of times when we're
doing our cases here, you're looking through

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cases, they're just so predictable.
But this one was one I was super

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interested in because it wasn't like your
typical murder case. And I know,

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like I shouldn't say typical murder because
there's victims in all of them, but

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you know, sometimes you just kind
of get what's gonna happen before it even

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happens. But this one's got some
spunk to it, like some real,

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like what the hell type shit going
on. So I hope that you like

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this one as much as I did. So let's get started. But we're

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gonna have to go back a little
ways and then work our way forward like

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I always do. And I'm gonna
take you back to the year two thousand

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to get started on this one.
So David Krupa is about thirty five years

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old and he's working as a mechanic
at a truck stop and looking at him,

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he is your average like burly man. He's got a beard, and

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he's a solid looking fella, and
he's got this kind of goofy side to

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him. His hair is a reddish
brown, and he comes across just as

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a nice guy, but a man's
man. And while working one day at

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the shop, this woman comes in
and they really kind of hit it off

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and they end up going on a
first date. Well, that relationship quickly

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turned into they just fell in love. They became official, and her name

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was Amy Flora. But as time
would go on, their relationship you know,

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continued on. They would have kids
together, but that hot love that

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once you know began, it started
to wane. And they both agreed that

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the reason that their relationship kind of
started going south because they were really working

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opposite work schedules, and so that
really started a lot of the issues and

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they were just growing apart and they
didn't hate each other, they just weren't

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happy together as a couple, and
so they decided that they were going to

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amicably split. So because of the
split, Amy wanted to move back home

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to Nebraska, and so she was
going to take the kids with her.

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But David was a devoted father and
he was going to take care of his

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kids no matter what. And he
was so devoted that he said, well,

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if you're moving back to Nebraska,
I guess I'm going with you too,

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because I've got to be close to
my kids so that I can see

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them and you know, be in
their lives. So after moving and settling

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in, Dave found himself lonely.
Right He's in a new place, new

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people, new town, and he
didn't really have a lot of friends or

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people that he knew. So he
had settled into this little one bedroom apartment

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and he was looking for somebody to
share his time with. And so that's

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whenever he heard about this online dating
site called Plenty of Fish, which I

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know now that's old news, but
back then it's kind of a cooler thing,

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right to be a part of.
And so he got pretty excited about

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it and said, look, I'm
gonna join this and see what all's out

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there? Right? How many fish
are there out in that seat? But

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it turned out poor Dave would have
this huge blow to his confidence because he

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would mad, you know, made
his account and then whenever he would check

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in periodically to see all these fish
in the sea, no one literally no

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one had responded back to him.
And the poor guy's like, damn,

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you know, am I really that
bad? Ain't nobody want to talk to

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me? Like nobody? But his
luck would eventually turn, and in the

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late spring early summer of twenty twelve, a woman named Liz Golier came into

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his life. Now, let me
explain Liz to you. Liz is an

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average looking woman. Nothing notable really
stands out about her, but she fixes

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up nicely and she had long brown
hair and dark brown eyes, and according

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to Dave's account of her, she
was really cool. He said she was

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down to earth, she worked for
a cleaning company, she was an animal

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lover, and she had two dogs
and a big snake, and Dave really

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thought that was cool, right.
The snake specifically was kind of cool.

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So they had a lot in common, and then the more they got to

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know one another, it turned out
they even liked the same types of movies.

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They even liked the same type of
music, and Dave liked heavy metal,

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she liked heavy metal. That's not
really my jam, but hey,

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he found somebody who had the same
jam as he did. So another thing

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that they really bonded over was the
fact that Dave rode motorcycles and she liked

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motorcycles too. So really, seriously, they had a lot in common and

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things just seemed to really go well. She had kids, a son and

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a daughter, and obviously Dave had
his kids, and so they really just

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both enjoyed parenting their children. Just
two good people. Both of them were

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kind of lonely, and it was
easy going and they really hit it off.

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Now, Dave says, you know, this was his first date,

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his first real date really in years, so he was pretty nervous, but

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he was pleasantly surprised when he realized
that Liz just smiled a lot, and

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she was full of energy, full
of life, an exciting person to be

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around. But even though they were
having so much fun together, you know,

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he was very adamant that he wanted
to take it slow and that this

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was not going to be like I'm
getting tied down type of situation. He

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wanted to be in a casual dating
situation, and he said, hey,

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it was a great mix of personal
space but also having someone to chat with

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and hang out with. Dave made
it really clear that even on the first

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date that this was going to be
a casual dating situation. He did not

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want to be tied down, and
that he was happy with the fact that

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they had this great mix of personal
space along with someone to chat and someone

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to hang out with. And he
was also very clear and open that,

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look, I'm gonna be going on
dates with other women as well. But

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Liz understood that because look, this
is casual, right, and so I'll

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be doing my thing, you'll be
doing your thing. It's casual, but

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it's just a good thing and this
is going to be awesome. So fast

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forward a few months towards the end
of October twenty twelve, Dave meets another

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woman named Carrie Farvar, and much
like the first relationship, when he met

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Carrie, he was kind of taken
aback by her. She was a customer

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at the place that he was managing, and he thought when he first laid

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eyes on her that she was pretty. Matter of fact, he was like,

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she was sexy, Like he was
really attracted to her. But she

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came into his work and she left, and he figured, you know,

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out ever see her again that day? Whatever, I talked to her at

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work, but whatever, moving on. But lo and behold if not.

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Just a couple of weeks later,
he gets back on his dating profile and

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guess who pops up. It's her. It's that girl Carrie that he saw

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at the at the mechanic shop.
And so let me tell you about carry

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real quick. I found her to
be just a natural beauty. Looking at

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her photo, she's tan, she's
lean, she has brown hair and it's

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kind of like got light highlights throughout
it, and her eyes are agreen.

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So you can just, I hope
you can imagine that she was really pretty.

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And she struck me as someone who
like if you go to the ballpark

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and you see that woman who looks
great even when she's dressed down, even

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if she's in a tank top in
shorts, she just has an elegance about

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her, just natural beauty, no
makeup, and she looks like a runner,

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like you know what I mean.
Just I don't know if she ran,

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but I'm just saying she looked like
a runner. Just elegant and calm

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is what she struck me as.
So Dave can't pass this up, and

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so he reaches out to her and
they do end up on their first date.

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Now that's some good luck if you
ask me, right, you just

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randomly meet this beautiful woman and then
you get to see her again online.

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So they had their first date on
October twenty ninth at a restaurant in Omaha,

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Nebraska. Now, Carrie was very
open about herself. She said,

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look, I grew up locally from
a small town. She had a child

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when she was really young, and
she had gone back to college and she

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had a career working in computers.
But something that really stuck out to Dave

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was that she really was different.
He said, you know, he's dating

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other women, and he's seeing Liz
and all that, but she just had

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just this difference about her, like
her drive and her spirit. Just something

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about her really he was attracted to. And you know, quite frankly,

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he said, she was out of
my league, Like how did I get

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here? You know, because he
definitely had you know, outkicked his coverage.

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But something rather aggravating happened during that
date because Dave's cell phone began blowing

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up with calls and texts Liz.
So he was having a lot of fun

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on that first date, and so
initially he just kind of ignored those messages,

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but when they continued and continued and
continued, he had no choice but

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to respond back to Liz during this
date, and he's like, look,

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I'm on a date. I can't
talk right now. I'll just have to

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get back with you. And so
that was kind of it. And so

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he and Carrie they just, you
know, continued on with his date.

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They really were liking one another,
and they just they just really hit it

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off that night. Well, Carrie
must have felt similarly about Dave because she

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even told her mom about him.
Her mom's name was Nancy Rainey, and

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Nancy was like, you know,
he sounded like a nice guy, and

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she was happy for her daughter to
have found someone really nice. And so

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after dinner, Dave decided, look, I'm gonna shoot my shot. Right,

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he was really liking this woman,
and he invited her back to his

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place, to which she happily He
agreed, Sure, let's go back,

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let's keep hanging out. So they
go inside of his apartment and they haven't

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been there but just a couple of
minutes when there was a ring at the

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security door outside of his apartment building. So Dave goes and checks it,

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and sure enough, if when he
checks it, he sees that it's Liz

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standing there at the security door,
like right, row, right, you

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got to be thinking that right now. So, as you can imagine,

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this made for a very uncomfortable situation, but Dave kept us cool. He

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had temporarily excused himself from Carrie and
he went to the security door to speak

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to Liz. Now, when he
met with Liz, he didn't meet this

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little ball of sunshine that he had
been hanging out with. He met a

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very upset and crying Liz, and
it was really clear that she wanted to

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get into the apartment. She had
left some things there and she wanted to

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get them and get out, and
so it was a really uncomfortab situation.

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But you know, Dave's a nice
guy. So Dave let Liz sit at

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the security door for just a moment. He said, hang on a minute,

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and he went back to his apartment
because he had no choice but to

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explain the situation to Carrie. Look, this other woman I'm kind of seeing.

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She's there, she's upset and she
wants to get some things from the

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apartment. Well, Carrie wasn't an
idiot, and she sensed that this was

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something she did not want any part
of, and so she decided, I

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think it's best if I just go
ahead and leave. I don't want to

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be part of any drama. So
as she did so, she had no

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choice but to pass by Liz because
Liz was standing by that security door still,

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but Carrie's black Ford Explorer was unfortunately
parked right by that door, so

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there was no way to kind of
get around Liz, and so she walks

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past her. The women didn't speak, they exchanged glances for just a few

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seconds. Carrie got in her vehicle
and she drove away. So after Carrie

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left, Dave let Liz come into
the apartment and she got her things,

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and she was still pretty upset and
talking with him, and so Dave was

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like, look, I think it's
best if you just go. This is

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kind of soured and I don't think
it's good for either one of us,

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and so the whole situation ruined his
night really, because he kind of felt

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bad. Oh my god, Carrie
left under these contentious circumstances. I'm the

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cause of this because I'm dating both
women even though they knew it, and

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he just felt bad. So he
decided to give her a call Carrie and

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check in on her. So when
Carrie answers, she's like, look,

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I'm halfway home, because she lived
in Macedonia, which was a tiny town

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right over the border in Iowa,
and she told him, why don't you

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just come to my house, you
know, like just come over here.

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It's safe. She's single, right, you can come hang out over here.

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And Dave's like, hell to the
Yeah, I'm on my way.

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So he jumps in his car and
he takes off driving, and when he

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gets there, Carrie greets him and
says, look, we are not boyfriend

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and girlfriend. This is not an
official relationship per se. There's nothing formal.

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I'm not looking to get married.
This is just fun for me and

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so I don't want any drama.
I don't want to be a part of

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any drama. This is just casual
for me, And much to Dave's relief,

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he's like, hell, yeah,
awesome, Okay. She understands,

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00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.200
and we're both on the same page. Now something else that was pretty cool

211
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.679
about their situation, And really it
was just dumb luck. But Carrie worked

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00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.679
just three blocks from Dave's apartment,
so naturally that meant that they were able

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00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.159
to spend more time together because of
the proximity. And so over the next

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00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.879
few weeks they were just really having
a good time after work. She could

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00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.840
drop by, they could hang out, good times, right, and Dave

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00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:41.879
said, this was a great relationship. This was not just about sex.

217
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It was deeper than that. They
really enjoyed hanging out with one another.

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They connected. It was a true
friendship. But hey, sex was good

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00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:54.120
too. But again I have to
emphasize this was not a monogamous situation.

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00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:01.120
And so Dave was seeing Carrie,
Dave was still seeing Liz, and they

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were continuing to kind of see other
people. So although things had been awkward

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before, that didn't mean that this
relationship was a total loss with Liz,

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and so they liked one another and
they would continue to see each other throughout

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the weeks as well. Carrie,
however, she worked in Omaha, and

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like I said, it was just
three blocks away from Dave's apartment. And

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so starting on November the twelfth,
she was supposed to be doing a big

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00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.600
project and it was supposed to last
an entire week. But part of the

228
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:37.039
stipulations of this project was that she
was going to be working really long hours

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00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.399
and she would be getting home really
late because of the commute. So,

230
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.960
considering how stressful this would be for
her, Dave and Carrie decided that she

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00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.039
should just stay at Dave's apartment and
they could spend the week together. Considering

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00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:54.240
how much they were enjoying each other's
company, Carrie was like, yeah,

233
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.320
that'd be great. It helps me
out. And so she had her teenage

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son, his name was Max.
Carrie arrangements for her teenage son to stay

235
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.120
with her parents that week so he
was well taken care of. She was

236
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.519
going to stay with Dave, and
this was just going to be kind of

237
00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.480
cool, right, they get to
play house for a week. So on

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00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.080
Monday, November twelfth, Carrie went
to work as usual, and as expected,

239
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.879
she stayed very late, and she
left her place of business at between

240
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:21.360
eight and nine pm, and then, exactly's planned, she went to Dave's

241
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:26.480
apartment and they spent the night together. The next morning, Dave got up

242
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and Carrie did two with him.
They were getting ready for the workday and

243
00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:33.919
she had to get some stuff done
on her computer before she left, so

244
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.039
they kissed goodbye. Dave left the
apartment around six twenty am, and when

245
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.759
he said bye, Carrie was awake. She was sitting on his couch and

246
00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:47.879
she was handling that business owner laptop. So just a few hours later,

247
00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:52.240
around ten thirty that morning, Dave
gets a text from Carrie, but the

248
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.440
message was a bit perplexing. Carrie
messaged him that, and this is a

249
00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:02.360
quote, we should move in together. And Dave's like, what in the

250
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:07.440
hell? Considering they had already had
an understanding. They literally had just had

251
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.440
the conversation a few weeks before,
and she was very clear that this was

252
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.960
not monogamous for her as well.
It just was weird, and so Dave

253
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.359
just simply responded, no, We're
not doing that. I mean, like,

254
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.480
what the hell you know? And
so Dave's standing there, like,

255
00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.000
where did this come from? It's
only been a few weeks, why would

256
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.680
she like, in what realm of
possibility does she think that that would even

257
00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.160
be reasonable? So just as soon
as he said no to her, though

258
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.559
in that text message, I mean, like seconds later, she came back

259
00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.359
with a furious response, letting him
know all about himself and basically broke off

260
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.680
the relationship. So you want to
talk about cuckoo acting totally normal on the

261
00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.759
couch, spending the night, everything's
good, kisses, goodbye, and then

262
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.759
three hours later we should move in
together. So Dave says, taken aback

263
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.799
is like not even the words to
describe it. And he says, I

264
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.440
was confused, and I was really
actually sad because this was not what I

265
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:10.079
wanted to happen. So around lunch
time, he went back to his house

266
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.559
and he was really surprised when he
walked in and he saw that everything of

267
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.680
Carrie's was gone from his apartment,
everything down to her toothbrush, Like there

268
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:19.880
was no sign that she had even
been there. She left nothing, She

269
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.480
up and frickin, as I like
to say, kickbrick, she was gone.

270
00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:27.759
So, considering how well things have
been going, it was a really

271
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.279
sad moment. But Dave was kind
of like, well, I guess it

272
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.559
is what it is. I mean, all accounts looked to be like that

273
00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:38.400
relationship was over, and from that
moment forward they didn't exchange any communication.

274
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:45.160
I mean, like she cut him
cold turkey. So randomly though, some

275
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.640
days go by and then a text
message comes up on his phone. Dave

276
00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.200
checks it and it's from Carrie.
So he's like, okay, she must

277
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.720
have cooled off a bit, and
so he responded to her and they started

278
00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:02.720
having like this normal conversations, you
know, at first it was just kind

279
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:07.359
of slow, Hey, what's going
on? But then just as soon as

280
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.519
he starts answering her, all of
a sudden, the texts start taking on

281
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.680
the crazy tone again, and he's
like, not only were they crazy,

282
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:22.480
they were like threatening and somewhat harassing, Like it was bizarre. Now,

283
00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.400
the thing is this, guys,
when you're doing online dating, which I'll

284
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.079
tell you I've never done before,
you don't know who you're talking to.

285
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.640
And if this was not a prime
example of flipping a switch, right,

286
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.000
you really don't know who you're talking
to. And then you let these people

287
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.920
into your home and they know where
you live and I don't know, man,

288
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:42.359
it just seems dangerous to me.
So if you're out there online dating,

289
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:48.440
be careful, right, protect yourself. So at the same time that

290
00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.480
she's acting crazy, Liz, the
other woman that he was seeing, tells

291
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.839
Dave, look, I got something
I have to show you, and she

292
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:59.160
was pretty upset, and so she
shows up and she points to her vehicle.

293
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.119
So Dave goes and looks, and
it's very obvious from first sight.

294
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.400
He looks and you can see there
are very deep and very long key marks

295
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:15.720
down the side of Liz's vehicle,
I mean deep, And Dave just looks

296
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.079
at it and goes, my god, everything is kind of making sense here.

297
00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:23.960
It looks like the only person who's
mad enough at him right now and

298
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:29.880
has the motive to even be mad
at Liz was Carrie. And Liz agreed.

299
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.200
She was like, I think she
was doing did this to my car?

300
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.160
Like this is insane, And considering
those text messages and even emails that

301
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.880
Dave had been receiving from Carrie,
it seemed to be absolutely the case.

302
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.000
Carrie was jealous of Liz, even
though she claimed to be cool with it,

303
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:48.880
and Dave and Liz kind of were
talking and they were afraid that something

304
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.759
really bad could happen. I mean, if someone is crazy enough to go

305
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.519
up and key the side of your
car and tear up your property, you

306
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:02.039
know what if she got physical with
Liz Li So Liz was really scared.

307
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.480
In the meantime, Carrie's mom gets
a text message from Carrie announcing that Carrie

308
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.920
had found a new job, and
that was kind of surprising to her mom

309
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.279
because Carrie was well established in her
company and it was odd that she had

310
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.920
never really mentioned these plans to her
mom. But then again, you don't

311
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.319
always tell at your mom everything.
I guess that's going on. Some relationships

312
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:26.759
are different than others. But that
was confirmed though, because on November fifteenth,

313
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.839
Carrie's employer got a text message from
her cell phone and Carrie explained that

314
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:37.039
she was resigning. So it's true. So Carrie and her mom continued to

315
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.920
text back and forth over the next
several days, but by the end of

316
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.960
the week, her mom was a
bit surprised because Carrie didn't show up to

317
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.119
pick up her son. So there
was also an upcoming family wedding and her

318
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.359
mother was wanting to know, like, what's the plan, you know,

319
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:57.119
what are you doing? And Carrie
just stopped responding to her altogether. And

320
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:02.200
it was almost like Carrie was having
a midlife crisis or something, and considering

321
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:07.279
she and her mother typically had that
daily contact, her mama became increasingly worried

322
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:12.000
about her, so the continued calls
and texts from her mother would go avoided,

323
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.319
and so finally her mama was like, oh, hell no, you're

324
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.160
not going to act like this,
and so she took the step of reporting

325
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.480
her daughter missing. And that was
on Friday, November the sixteenth. So,

326
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:27.279
as as usual, the police got
involved, and her mother was really

327
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.880
wary of the new man that she
had been seeing, because while Carrie thought

328
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.759
so much of him, her mom
was like, look, I never met

329
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.759
this guy, I don't know him, and the last thing I knew,

330
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.759
she was with him. So police
decided to follow up with Dave and they

331
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:47.000
went to his place of work.
Now Dave's in the back working and the

332
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.440
front counter guy comes to him and
is like, yo, Dave, there's

333
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:55.839
some Sheriff's deputies up here looking for
you. And Dave is looking confused,

334
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.079
like deer in the headlights right,
and he's like thinking, what the hell

335
00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:00.960
have I done that could pass?
Need police to come talk to me.

336
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.240
So he goes to the front counter
and he greets the officers and the first

337
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.720
thing they ask him is do you
know Carrie Farvar And he says, yeah,

338
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.759
I do, And they explained to
Dave, well, her mom has

339
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:21.480
filed her missing. We know she
was last with you, so mind explaining.

340
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:27.799
Tell us what's going on. So
Dave immediately feels stressed and he's freaked

341
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.680
out because he's realizing, oh my
god, I'm on the hot seat.

342
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:33.279
Did they think I did something to
her? She was mad at me,

343
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.480
she was cussing me out right,
tell me about myself. And they say,

344
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.920
well, you are her boyfriend,
right, But Dave looks at him

345
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.960
as like, no, don't.
I don't think I am. What do

346
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.000
you mean you don't think you are? So he pulls his phone out and

347
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.440
he shows them the messages as proof. There's these nasty messages, and as

348
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.880
the police are looking through his phone, he even sees a shift in their

349
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:02.240
demeanor, seeing them go from almost
like these bold interrogators to realizing that they

350
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:07.279
had been duped and that this was
all total bullshit and obviously they were dealing

351
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.079
with a bad breakup and y'all police
see this all the time. Bitches be

352
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.119
cray. I don't know what to
tell you. Okay, people get crazy

353
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:18.920
whenever love doesn't go their way.
So they look at these messages and they're

354
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.119
like, oh, okay, I
got youa. You know, it's not

355
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.400
a big deal. It'll probably stop
soon. These things, you know,

356
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.880
where people break up and they're harassing
each other, it usually quits, you

357
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.640
know, just give it a little
bit of time. Is an annoying Absolutely

358
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:34.920
did mom calling us and thinking,
hey, this guy did something to her

359
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:37.839
that does that suck? Yeah,
But look, buddy, you know,

360
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.319
we've all been here, We've seen
these messages, we know what's going on.

361
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.039
We're gonna talk to mom. We'll
get this sorted out. And so,

362
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.839
you know, like they just kind
of look at him like, hey,

363
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.279
boy, you kind of dodged a
bullet, you know, high five,

364
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.759
you know, but we'll we'll try
to sort this out. So the

365
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.319
police go back to Carrie's mom and
they explain the whole deal thing she was.

366
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.640
Mom wasn't buying it. She's like, what, like this is just

367
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.440
weird. But like I said,
people do crazy things when they love someone

368
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:15.440
and it's not reciprocated in ways they
want it. Also, shortly after Carrie

369
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:21.200
was reported missing, her mom started
getting messages on Facebook two from Carrie,

370
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:26.279
and she was texting her mom things
like Happy Mother's Day and the stuff like

371
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.440
she normally would. But as time
continued to go forward, these messages got

372
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.839
shorter and shorter in length, and
eventually they were just one or two word

373
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.400
responses. And then the more her
mother would try to interact and respond to

374
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:44.079
her like, the nastier the responses
became, really pushing her away, and

375
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:49.440
her mom was finally just heartbroken at
their fractured relationship and really was kind of

376
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:53.720
like, this man had such a
hold on Carrie that she's willing to up

377
00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:00.519
and leave. She left her own
child and then had never contacted him again.

378
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.759
I mean, it was horrible,
but it was what it was.

379
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.240
It was just a broken hearted mom
and Carrie acting like a looney tune.

380
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:15.359
So for the next couple of months, the harassment continued, and it would

381
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:21.920
just continue to increase, in y'all, not for days, not for weeks,

382
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.200
not for months, but for the
next three years. From November of

383
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:34.000
twenty twelve through twenty fifteen, both
Liz and Dave kept getting these frequent harassing

384
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:40.000
texts and emails from Carrie. But
she was clever, y'all. She made

385
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:45.960
sure she couldn't be tracked because the
texts started coming from as many as thirty

386
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:52.000
different telephone numbers. The emails came
from more than thirty email accounts. She

387
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:56.319
was all over the place, and
she was going to make their lives living

388
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:03.759
hell. Carrie was so obsessed with
days that he alone was receiving fifty to

389
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:12.759
sixty emails a day, combined with
texts and miss telephone calls. Like think

390
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:18.240
of how many hours there are in
a day. That's multiple times an hour.

391
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.160
And the more Dave read, the
more it was clear that the even

392
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.279
killed woman that he thought was great
and had abided into his home. This

393
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:32.400
was like more like a fatal attraction
situation, and she was finding pleasure in

394
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.279
these messages. And all she would
refer to Liz as was that whore.

395
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.599
It was like she was hung up
on her right. You know that song

396
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:45.680
I've got a girl crush terrible singing
much? No, really like that girl

397
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.839
crushed song. I think this was
like like obsession. So the text had

398
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.559
come from Carrie's original phone, But
after some time the numbers began to change.

399
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.920
And I'm talking, like I said, multiple phone numbers, so many

400
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.119
phone numbers and so frequently that Dave
and Liz couldn't block the numbers fast enough

401
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:11.400
before it would start coming from another
number. But then the ante was really

402
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.839
raised when Dave realized that he was
being physically stalked as well as harassed by

403
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:21.240
the phone, because Dave had to
eventually make police reports because Carrie was now

404
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:26.960
messaging him with particular details of the
customers that he was talking to when he

405
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:33.880
was standing outside of his workplace.
The messages were threatening. They said things

406
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.279
like every whore you talk to,
I'm taking a picture of her and I'm

407
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:41.240
getting a picture of her license plate. And i don't care if they're just

408
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.720
customers, I'll go after them too, all right. So at this point,

409
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.880
enough was enough and the detectives got
involved. Okay, you can't go

410
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:52.359
threatening people innocent people. I mean, you don't threaten people anyway, right,

411
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.880
but specifically innocent people and people that
have done nothing to you. So

412
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:00.519
this detective, his name is Chris
Lagro. He had been an offer for

413
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.039
twenty two and a half years,
but he had spent the last eleven or

414
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:08.240
so with the Special Victims Unit,
and his specialization was in domestic violence and

415
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:12.319
stalking cases. And so to him, just looking through the record, he's

416
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.640
like, you know, this is
almost routine what I'm looking at. I

417
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.720
mean, obviously they're dealing with some
kind of jealous x and it was just

418
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.359
one of those if I can't have
you, nobody can have you situations crazy,

419
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.559
right, But that happens all the
time. So when he was told

420
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:32.400
of Carrie watching Dave right because through
the text messages, his first thought was

421
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.039
like, Okay, well, if
she's watching him, then she's got to

422
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.720
be around the business somewhere, right, taking license plate pictures and taking pictures

423
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.799
of the people he's with. So
Detective went to the place of business and

424
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:48.480
he started looking around for places where
someone could basically hide out and see what

425
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.119
Day was doing. And he kind
of was like, a reverse stakeout is

426
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.920
what I did. So he looked
at all those locations. He even took

427
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:59.240
a picture of Carrie, and he
knocked on the doors of people that live

428
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:04.039
by there and and businesses, but
nobody had seen Carrie. So in January

429
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:10.759
of twenty thirteen, with Dave's consent, the police downloaded information from his cell

430
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:15.759
phone to obtain data related to the
texts and the emails that were sent by

431
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.119
Carrie, and they also did this
with Liz's phone, but those downloads that

432
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:25.960
they got were classified as what they
called logical downloads, which didn't include data

433
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.559
previously deleted from the devices, so
that meant that the downloads really didn't show

434
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.880
much. So as the detectives worked
the case, what happened next was like

435
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:42.400
a total shock. Carrie up in
text Dave and says, I'll tell you

436
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:48.079
where I'm at. She starts boasting
to him, I'll tell you exactly where

437
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.880
I am. I'm at one one
sixty one eight Birch Street, Apartment twelve.

438
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.359
Now that happened to be just a
few streets over from Dave's apartment,

439
00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:00.119
and so he had had enough and
he was kind of like been out of

440
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.759
shape. You're right, He's like
working himself up, and he's like,

441
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.000
like it, I'll go talk to
her myself, gonna try to ruin my

442
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:08.880
life like this for years, And
so he tore off to catch her himself.

443
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.000
So he found the row of apartments. He says, my heart was

444
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.960
racing, it was pounding, and
the closer I got, the more worked

445
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.519
up. I'm getting them pissed off
because this bitch won't leave me alone.

446
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.039
And he gets to apartment ten,
and then he gets to apartment eleven,

447
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.759
and as he approaches what should be
twelve, he realizes there is no twelve

448
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.039
it was just another sick game she
was playing, and she did it just

449
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:40.359
to mess with his head. So
Dave's X and the mother of his children

450
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:45.279
remember Amy. She was still pretty
close with Dave, and their arrangements included,

451
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:48.000
look, that the kids go to
his house on the weekend. And

452
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.160
so because this was so continuous,
they're not stupid. The kids knew that

453
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.960
something was going on. And being
the mom that Amy was, she got

454
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.039
to the point where she's like,
look, I don't want my kids go

455
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.240
over to your house because of all
this drama. And she put her foot

456
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:05.599
down, and I don't blame her, and she said, if you want

457
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.319
to see the kids, you have
to start coming to my house because this

458
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.759
whole situation makes me nervous. And
your love life is your problem and your

459
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.599
situation, but my children are mine. Kudos to you, Amy. Case

460
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:22.839
in point, Dave was at work
around the same time that Amy put her

461
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:30.359
foot down and Liz called him horrified
and screaming that Carrie had been in her

462
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:37.039
home. Liz had come home and
found one of her windows smashed out,

463
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.519
and then over the top of her
bed in red lipstick, it read go

464
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:50.839
away horror, and also on the
bed were a bunch of Liz's clothing which

465
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.920
had been stabbed and slashed with a
knife. I mean, are you not

466
00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:01.160
hereing the like? What the hell? Right? So Dave was shook,

467
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.880
like to his core, and all
he was thinking was like, oh my

468
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.920
god, what if Liz would have
been there when she broke in? Would

469
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:09.960
Liz have gotten stabbed? Oh my
god? Her kids, you know.

470
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:15.240
And then as he's stressed out and
thinking about what could have been, which

471
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:20.720
is always the worst, right,
he gets a text message from Carrie saying

472
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:25.799
she's gonna die and no one can
stop me. So if all of this

473
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:30.319
wasn't more than enough probable calls for
police to cut a warrant on Carrie,

474
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.160
they went looking for her with a
vengeance. I mean, they tore it

475
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.160
up looking for this woman. But
unfortunately that was all that would happen because

476
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:45.599
no matter their efforts, they couldn't
find her. And this was weighing on

477
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.640
that detective too, because he's seeing
the effect that it's having on these victims.

478
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.200
Plus, you can't help it feel
responsible if you're here to try to

479
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:55.440
stop some kraiy kray woman from acting
like this and then you can't find her,

480
00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:00.279
even though it's not true. You
would feel responsible for the sake and

481
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:05.920
well being of these children involved and
these innocent people. So Liz would continue

482
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:10.159
to report even more over the next
months. Liz had made the report that

483
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:15.119
someone broke into her garage and this
was before November twenty third of twenty twelve,

484
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.320
and they had stolen checks from her, and then there was a vandalism

485
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:22.679
to her property on November twenty third, February twelfth, and April first of

486
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:30.000
twenty thirteen. Now, strangely enough, though, guess what police found around

487
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:37.920
this time. Carrie's vehicle, that
Black Explorer that she drove, was initially

488
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.280
discovered in Omaha and it was examined
by a crime scene technician, and at

489
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:47.840
that time the technician was primarily looking
for fingerprints and documented that the vehicle was

490
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.199
very clean. The only fingerprints found
were on a mint container in this center

491
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:58.320
cup holder, but other than that, it was a wash. And then

492
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.760
nothing came of the Prince because when
they ran down they were of unknown origin.

493
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:07.599
They didn't come back in aphis or
any any you know. System.

494
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:10.239
So at this point the stalking had
been going on for years and it was

495
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.159
continuing without stopping. Things like oh, you're eating with your kids. I

496
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.119
can still get in the building.
I can hear through the door. I

497
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:24.280
put my ear up to it,
like creepy level shit. And Dave said

498
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:28.639
that he was pretty much at this
point on the edge of a mental breakdown.

499
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:34.239
The emotional stress was too much and
the it was just a lot to

500
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.480
deal with. He felt responsible for
everybody. It was interfering with his everyday,

501
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.360
you know, work activities, and
it just took its toll. And

502
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:44.960
eventually Liz and Dave broke off their
relationship. And this was in August of

503
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:50.639
twenty thirteen, so as if you
would think it would make Carrie happy or

504
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.599
you know, they broke up.
Things then went to an even higher level

505
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:59.239
when on August seventeenth, Dave gets
a text from Carrie that says, I

506
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.280
set that now Horror's house on fire. I hope the horror and her kids

507
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:08.800
die. So Dave flew over to
the apartment believing the text and guess what,

508
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:15.199
it was absolutely true. At eight
fourteen am, a fire had been

509
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.039
reported at the residence that Liz was
renting in Omaha, and she and her

510
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.360
children had left the residence at three
pm the day before because they were in

511
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.280
the middle of moving, and they
hadn't returned until early that next morning,

512
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.360
when the fire was already a blaze. So Dave shows up and finds Liz

513
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.480
outside by herself. She's crying and
luckily no one had been home. But

514
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:45.480
and this hurts too, all of
her beloved pets had died in the fire.

515
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.119
They couldn't get out, and she
lost everything that she owned. And

516
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.679
if you follow me on Facebook,
all of us were showing our little babies

517
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:54.320
off on Facebook recently, and it
made me really sad, you know,

518
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:58.239
when I was seeing everybody's dogs and
thinking about them, you know, her

519
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:04.800
pets suffering like that. So clearly
Carrie wanted Liz to lose everything, because

520
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:08.679
investigators discovered at least six points of
origin of the fire, and they found

521
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:15.679
accelerants, determining that the fire had
absolutely been set intentionally. This was also

522
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:22.320
confirmed when Carrie then sent emails to
both Dave and Liz mocking them about the

523
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:28.360
fires that she had set. So
after the fire, Liz kind of went

524
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:31.320
through it and scavenged whatever she could, and she moved. She was so

525
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:37.880
shook by this insane Carrie that she
didn't even tell Dave where she moved to.

526
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:43.760
Like she just like absconded. She
left, but Dave didn't blame her

527
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.840
because she had to protect herself and
she had to protect her kids and she

528
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:51.519
didn't want carry coming after them.
So Dave was understandably sad, feeling,

529
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:53.920
oh my god, you know,
I've lost the one person who understands what

530
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.880
I'm going through. So all he
could think to do was in an f

531
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:04.280
self preservation. He made the decision
to uproot, to move, and to

532
00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.360
start completely over. He wanted a
new place, he wanted new people,

533
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:12.920
but at the same time, he
knew that Carrie was still out there,

534
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:20.440
but where and would she find him
again if he moved. So Dave moves.

535
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:22.679
He settles in somewhere new, and
he decided that he wanted to try

536
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:25.960
to date again, so he went
back online, but he went to a

537
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.440
different dating site to be safe.
He made a new profile and he started

538
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.719
talking to a woman. Things were
going well and they decided to set up

539
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:39.000
a first date. So Dave arrives
and he waits an hour and then he

540
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:43.239
realizes, my god, I've been
stood up. So he gets ready to

541
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:45.719
leave, and that's when you get
a text that says, hey, sorry,

542
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:47.440
I'm running late, be there.
In a bit. Okay, no

543
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:54.880
problem. So he waits even longer
and no woman shows, and that's when

544
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:04.320
another text comes through and it says
this is Carrie. So Dave feels the

545
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:07.079
blood drained from his face and he's
like, oh my god. No,

546
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:13.760
he did what he thought he could
to get away from her, and there

547
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:17.119
she was, and then she starts
hurling out insults, including the threat to

548
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:23.039
cut his ex Amy, the mother
of his children. She's gonna cut Amy's

549
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:29.960
throat, and little does Dave know, but now Amy is also getting messages

550
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:34.639
from Carrie too. The messages are
saying things like Amy, you better stay

551
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.519
away from Dave, and she tells
her things like if I could get rid

552
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.280
of you, I would, and
this was bad enough. I mean,

553
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.719
he just gets worse, right,
It's like a snowball that won't quit rolling

554
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.760
downhill and getting bigger. But the
thing that makes your skin crawl is the

555
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:54.599
fact that then Carrie starts directly involving
Dave's children in the threats. So Amy

556
00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.000
was at the park with their kids, and Carrie texted her while she was

557
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.679
at the park. Ryan's on the
slide and you're pushing Lexi on the swing,

558
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:09.159
knowing exactly what they were doing in
the moment that they were doing it.

559
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:16.079
Amy's freaked out. Now right now, the woman's watching me. So

560
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.880
one night, Carrie sent a message
saying to Amy that she was going to

561
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:29.519
cut the kid's throats in their sleep. And as a mama, I mean,

562
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:32.320
I don't know what you do other
than you start shooting at the wind

563
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:37.360
when you hear it blow, because
that's this is a new level of low.

564
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.800
You leave kids alone, you don't
touch, you do not fuck with

565
00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:45.239
the mother's kids. The kids were
so scared because they were figuring out what

566
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:49.480
was going on that Amy woke up
one time and found her son on the

567
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.960
couch sleeping with a baseball bat,
and she said, son, what are

568
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:55.800
you doing? And he said,
I'm gonna protect you. Mama, I

569
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.599
mean heartbreak. I mean, this
is destroying a lot of people, and

570
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:06.400
now these kids are involved. So
it's now twenty fifteen, y'all years later,

571
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.239
and Dave felt like it was only
a matter of time until someone like

572
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:15.119
gets his family for real, and
so he says, I have to protect

573
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:19.760
my family at all costs, and
so he retrieved a nine milimeter He got

574
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.159
a pistol from his dad and Dave
wasn't really like the one to carry a

575
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.079
gun on his hip at all times, but he did bring the gun and

576
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:29.840
he put it on the top of
the closet for quick access in the event

577
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.800
that it might be needed to protect
Amy or their children. And that had

578
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:37.360
to be absolutely heartbreaking from mother and
father to realize how their children felt.

579
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.639
But like, how do you fight
a ghost, you know, But that's

580
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:47.760
exactly what police wanted to do.
So at the Patawatami County Sheriff's office,

581
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.559
two years after Carrie was reported missing, there were a couple of detectives that

582
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.840
had caught wind about it and it
piqued their interest. They were kind of

583
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.440
curious, so it's a different sheriff's
office, right. They were curious about

584
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:05.719
the fact that a single mom basically
just vanished and she just up and left

585
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:09.360
her family, not to see them
again. But she was still communicating via

586
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:15.440
email and text messages. So this
was being looked into at the same time

587
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.880
from the Omaha Police Department, who
were investigating the arson, harassment, and

588
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.280
vandalism cases that were being built against
Carrie as well. But remember a whole

589
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:30.039
lot of time had passed and so
Carrie couldn't be located, and more crimes

590
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.960
were continuing to occur in that area, and so detectives had to kind of

591
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.519
put it on the back burner to
pursue the more current cases. And plus,

592
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:39.440
you know, it had kind of
gone cold in terms of new leads

593
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:45.480
of where Carrie might be. So
the Potawatommy Sheriff's office decided, we're going

594
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:50.239
to send some deputies to go talk
to Carrie's mom and have a talk face

595
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:54.559
to face. So when they did
that, they got more details about Carrie's

596
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:59.960
leaving, including that she had taken
a job in Kansas and that she was

597
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:04.599
making one hundred thousand dollars a year, but her son Max would have to

598
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:07.639
stay with her parents, you know, while she was doing this, but

599
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:13.400
it just wasn't like her at all. Her mom still after all these years,

600
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:16.559
was not buying it. And after
talking to her mom more, the

601
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:22.079
investigators felt that there had to be
more to this, so they took another

602
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:25.320
look at Carrie's record, and that's
when they noted that Carrie had a history

603
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:30.960
of bipolar disorder and depression. So
it was true, y'all, if she

604
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:37.400
had stopped taking her medication, it
really might explain this shift in her personality,

605
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:39.800
and so basically they were kind of
working on the theory that her vanishing

606
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:45.159
was actually a symptom of a mental
health crisis. But her mother was adamant

607
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:52.840
that no matter what, she would
always call home. Also, right at

608
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:57.760
the time that Carrie went missing,
her father was dying, and there was

609
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:05.599
no doubt, none, that she
would have come home when her daddy was

610
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.400
on his deathbed. And he literally
died shortly thereafter, and guess what,

611
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:12.840
Carrie was a no show. She
didn't go to the funeral. So the

612
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:16.320
whole situation was horrible. But Carrie's
mom knew, you know, no matter

613
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:20.320
what Carrie's going through, I have
to be here for Max, right,

614
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:22.239
I have to give him a stable
life. He was only fourteen years old,

615
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.679
he lost his mama, now he
lost his grandfather. But call it

616
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.280
a mother's intuition. But Carrie's mom
told investigators, I don't think Carrie left

617
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:39.000
on her own. So investigators,
on that note were almost of the same

618
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:45.159
opinion because when they looked at the
original photos of Carrie's house, everything she

619
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:50.079
owned was still there when she went
missing. The closets were full, it

620
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.480
looked like the bed was made.
It looked like she had left and she

621
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.800
was planning on coming back, but
she hadn't been seen in two years or

622
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.679
more. And the truth was that
the email and the messages alone, the

623
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:04.920
police say, you know, felt
like this is not proof that carries alive.

624
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.239
So the police did what they do
and they worked on the idea that

625
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:14.320
if she had really packed up and
moved to a different city, they wanted

626
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:19.280
to look at the bank records,
and when they did, they saw that

627
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:23.760
there were two transactions that happened just
a couple of days after she was reported

628
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:34.760
missing, but after that nothing.
But we all know, y'all. You

629
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.079
know, adults are allowed to go
missing, but it's incredibly hard to exist

630
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:45.000
without money. Maybe they needed to
start working this more like a death investigation

631
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:50.239
than a missing person investigation. I
mean, it couldn't hurt because they couldn't

632
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:57.360
find her. About this time,
Liz and Dave had reconnected again and they

633
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:02.079
were dating off and on and it
just didn't work out though, and they

634
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:07.679
officially broke up in mid November twenty
fifteen. Shortly thereafter, on a Friday,

635
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:16.880
December fourth, Liz told police that
Amy, Dave's baby mama had sent

636
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:25.360
her a harassing message via Facebook,
and now it was all making sense.

637
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:34.400
Liz told police, I don't think
that Carrie has actually been doing this all

638
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:38.320
along. I think this has been
Amy and she screwed up and she sent

639
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:46.639
me a message from her actual Facebook
page. Had she actually been harassing Liz

640
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:53.679
and Dave this whole time? And
had Amy been posing as Carrie? This

641
00:46:53.800 --> 00:47:00.239
was a total shock. It blew
everyone's mind. But if Amy was the

642
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:06.119
real stalker, then where the hell
was Carrie? So police wanted to look

643
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.559
at Liz's cell phone, to which
she consented, and they again downloaded all

644
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:14.079
of the harassing messages for review,
and they said that they were going to

645
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:20.039
follow up with her now, although
the messages had continued for years, if

646
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:27.599
Carrie was actually dead, clearly she
hadn't sent the messages. So investigators decided

647
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:31.639
to figure out where exactly the messages
were originating from. And for that,

648
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:37.800
ladies and gentlemen, you need a
hero. You need a man of intellect,

649
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:45.639
organization, computer knowledge, and a
desire for the truth. That,

650
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:51.440
my friends, that's a hero,
someone who doesn't wear a cape but is

651
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:59.119
a superhero in his own right.
Who they needed was an IT guy insert

652
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:06.360
Tony Kava. So Tony was part
of the Sheriff's Office i T department,

653
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:10.360
but he also would volunteer often and
help with what they call digital forensics.

654
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.519
And Tony, y'all, he is
a quirky fella. Okay, he's balding

655
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:19.719
and so he shaves his head to
kind of mask that he wears glasses.

656
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:25.360
He's funny, he's super smart,
and he just makes me chuckle. Jim

657
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:32.039
is looking at me crazy right now, and he took his glasses off easy,

658
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:39.159
Jim. Okay, handsome, but
look, Tony is a quirky fella.

659
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:45.480
Okay, he's exactly what you would
expect of an it guy. But

660
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:49.079
don't come at me if you're some
ripped up six pack you know, thunder

661
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.400
Stallion who works it? Okay,
I get it, but I'm just calling

662
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.880
it like I see it from my
personal experiences with tech gurus of the world,

663
00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:00.119
and it's not a bad thing.
So don't hate something that is underrated.

664
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.719
It's so underrated is the fact that
it takes a multitude of people,

665
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.079
often with very different skill sets,
to solve complex cases, and this case

666
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:15.599
would be one that was very complex
in nature, and digital forensics is something

667
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.440
that I understand as a concept,
but in no way, shape or form

668
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:23.239
do I have that skill set to
even attempt to do it myself. Right,

669
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:29.199
So that's why I much like detectives
in terms of this case. I

670
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:32.880
reached out to my own IT guru
to come give some insight to how this

671
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:37.679
works in Layman's terms. And for
those of you who know about digital evidence,

672
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:40.800
that's great. But for those of
you who are absolute morons like me

673
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:46.679
myself and I and I cannot I'm
not computer savvy and it wouldn't make sense

674
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:50.440
to me. I brought in a
friend to help, all right, So

675
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.679
I want to introduce to you my
buddy. His name is doctor Garrett Wheat,

676
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.159
and so he's a graduate of LSU, a computer whiz. And we

677
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:00.639
go back a long time, long
way, don't we. Yeah? All

678
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:05.000
right, So Garrett and I worked
together. How many years ago was that?

679
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.320
Fifteen years starting in two thousand and
nine. I do even remember that

680
00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:12.880
because I knew my years of retirement. There you go. I fly by

681
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.079
the seat of my pants. But
we go a long way back. And

682
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.000
something I love about Garrett is that
when we first met, I knew,

683
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:22.679
like he's sometimes you're kind of dry, but totally get you and he was

684
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:27.639
our like resident computer guy right where
we were working, and so I would

685
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:30.119
always call him like the nerd herd
right or the he was the leader of

686
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.400
the geek squad. But and he
knows this, So y'all, don't say

687
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.679
I'm being a meani Weeni because I'm
not. But Garrett always reminds me of

688
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:45.360
Napoleon Dynamite. I get it,
and it's true. So I will I

689
00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:49.960
will say this, Garrett, do
you have a six pack? I will

690
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.639
say, I'm not a stallion,
but I might have a six pack.

691
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.880
Ey, he's representing for the it
people in the house, and I can't

692
00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:00.239
do the Napoleon Dynamite dance either.
All right, Well we'll give you a

693
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:04.400
reprieval that one. All right.
So in this case, which I know

694
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:07.719
you and I spoke about it,
So in this case, there were thousands

695
00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:13.360
upon thousands of emails and literally hundreds
of thousands of text messages, and so

696
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:17.119
whenever Tony was going through it all, he would be looking at years of

697
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:21.639
evidence. And so what he said
was his first step was to try to

698
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:27.840
figure out where the messages were originating
from. So can you explain in basic

699
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.000
terms for the dummies like me?
And he's laughing because he knows I'm stupid.

700
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:32.280
He used to send me emails,
y'all. I would email and say,

701
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:35.519
hey, this isn't working right,
and he would send back this exact

702
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:45.760
same response to me every time.
El b you a no el ubc ak

703
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.239
And I was like, what is
that? And he's like, error lies

704
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.400
between chair and keyboard. Idiot.
But I'm an idiot, So I want

705
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.679
to explain this to people. So
can you explain, like in basic terms,

706
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:01.199
what like a digital footprint is and
the importance of your IP address so

707
00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:06.679
they can get very detailed, but
generally speaking, every device that connects to

708
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:12.639
the Internet has a unique IP address, which is what they call it,

709
00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:16.119
which is Internet Protocol. Sure,
okay, we'll keep it simple, okay,

710
00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:21.679
And an IP address is made up
of four different pieces, like three

711
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.480
numbers, a dot, three numbers, a dot three numbers a dot which

712
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:30.360
it's like a phone number, but
the first three numbers dictate like physical location.

713
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:35.360
Okay, So like would everyone it's
not every time, I mean it's

714
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:39.440
it's it's really hard to just Yes, you're talking to people like me for

715
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.599
the for the sake of being very
simple. Yeah, you can say,

716
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.400
like okay, this dictates a certain
location. So like if you're connected to

717
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:51.920
Cox at your house and I'm at
Cox at my house, we probably have

718
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.400
the same first couple of letters,
like one four three or something. We

719
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:58.840
think about like your bank account.
Every bank shares the same routing number for

720
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:04.480
your checking. So every time you
connect to an Internet service provider an ISP

721
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.800
like Cox AT and T, Verizon
all those, you're going to get an

722
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:14.639
IP address specific to your house.
I got it. So kind of like

723
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:15.920
to the routing number you're saying,
like on the checks, the routing number

724
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:20.519
let you know which bank which exactly? Okay, cool. And then within

725
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:24.239
your house, when you connect to
your router, your phone, your tablet,

726
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:28.760
your computer are all going to get
a very specific number that's even separate

727
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:32.599
in that so you might have multiple
IP addresses coming from one house. No,

728
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:36.639
every house gets the same IP address, and then within that house,

729
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.480
you're going to have a bunch of
different ones. Okay, And without getting

730
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:45.679
too crazy, because this question comes
up a lot everybody's house. Typically your

731
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:49.000
phone is going to be one on
two dot one six eight dot something dot

732
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:53.360
something because we all use the same
similar routers that use the same IP structure.

733
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:59.519
From your inside your house, I
got it. But your house wherever

734
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:01.960
you live, versus where I live. We're going to have different addresses as

735
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:06.199
far as Cox's or AT and T
is concerned. Okay, those will never

736
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.960
repeat. So the point though,
is that an IP address is going to

737
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:14.800
be very specific to a physical,
physical location. That could be like a

738
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:17.079
I know there's caveats to it,
okay, and we acknowledge that. And

739
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:20.199
if you're out there and you're like
screaming, atch car, oh my god,

740
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.360
we get it. We're trying to
talk to people like me. And

741
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:27.679
there's there's a website okay, literally, what is my IP address dot com?

742
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:30.800
Okay? And it will tell you
where you are located. So let

743
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.960
me ask you this just because I'm
curious. If I had your IP address

744
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.480
from your phone me, as just
a civilian, could I go to this

745
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:42.840
website, put in that IP address, IP address and figure out where you

746
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.880
live? No, it's not that, it's not that crazy, okay.

747
00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:52.119
Specific If you notice this is saying
we're in New Orleans right now. Okay,

748
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:57.000
So it's a generalized so GPS or
I think let's start with your cell

749
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.800
phone. Your cell phone gets triangulated
with three towers, they can pinpoint a

750
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:05.480
general right area where you are.
GPS gets a lot more specific than that.

751
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:08.639
IP addresses. You have to connect
to your router and your house,

752
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:15.159
which then connects to COX, which
has all these substations in between. Typically

753
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:17.639
the big one for COX or something
is going to be in like Houston.

754
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.239
So a lot of times we share
the same main IP address, which is

755
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:25.280
from Houston because that's where their headquarters
are. But it's got to go through

756
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:29.920
BAT and Reage first, and then
another substation. I got it, and

757
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:31.760
I got and what this is doing
is at and T right now is putting

758
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:37.920
me through the main substation in New
Orleans. I got it. So like

759
00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:39.039
in my brain, the way I'm
visualizing this, it's kind of like if

760
00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:42.599
I was taking a literal trip from
here to New York, I would have

761
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.199
to stop at gas station and gas
station and gas station, right, and

762
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.000
so it would give me that trail
of how to get from A to B.

763
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:52.239
Well, we think about Wi Fi
and everything's wireless, but somewhere,

764
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.039
somehow there's a wire. I got
it. There's wires connecting New York to

765
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:59.599
London underground. Yeah, I say, underground, under the Atlantic. I

766
00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:01.480
got you. Don't you go geographical
on me. Now you know I'll fail.

767
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:07.119
Well, everything boils down to some
level of it has to be wired

768
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:12.000
somehow somewhere. So where is that
last point in the in the wired?

769
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:16.920
I got it. So whenever you
have your IP address, and you even

770
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.880
taught me this, and I know
guys, if you will go with computers,

771
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:21.960
you would know this. But like
you can put your mouth at the

772
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:24.320
very bottom right like of your screen, and it would pop up and show

773
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:28.239
you what's your IP address? They
can't. But that's going to be the

774
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.199
IPA address internal to the network.
Okay, stop stop, yeah, okay,

775
00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:34.639
we're cool. All right. That's
only going to be your IPA address

776
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:37.199
at home, okay, And that's
not going to be the IP address that's

777
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:40.280
shown to the world. I got
it, Okay, I get that.

778
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:46.480
So if we can find an IP
address for like an email or that was

779
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:52.199
used to send a text message,
then we can take that IP address and

780
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.800
we can try to trace that back
to an actual location because at some point

781
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:58.719
it will be tied somewhere. Yeah. And just like I said, with

782
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:02.480
routing numbers, generally the same for
banks, COX is going to be I

783
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:07.480
say, COX, because that's who
that's how I'm familiar with COX is going

784
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:12.639
to have the same number for everybody. So if I know an IP address

785
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:15.960
or the they call it the trace
route. You're tracing the route of the

786
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:22.159
data packets from whatever device I'm using
to whatever information I'm trying to get or

787
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:27.920
where I'm sending it to. It
tracks all of those spots or those stops

788
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:31.719
along the line. Got one of
those is has to be the ISP of

789
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:37.800
the local Internet company, wherever they're
physically located. We could talk about how

790
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:42.320
I get around that in a second, but you can't change that. Okay.

791
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:45.440
So if the and the cops can
dive deep into this and can get

792
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.559
access to this, so if they
know what IP address they have at one

793
00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:51.639
part of that track, they know
the general location of where this person,

794
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:52.760
all right, and that's where this
came in. Okay, cool. So

795
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:59.400
something else that Tony Kava quickly realized
that was whoever was sending these messages was

796
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:04.039
using a whole lot of different services
to hide their real IP address. So

797
00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:07.639
this got like kind of technical and
he found that this person would use what

798
00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:12.880
was called VPNs or proxies or sometimes
he said he even saw like the Wi

799
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:15.840
Fi at McDonald's being used. So
my question to you was, can you,

800
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.039
in a basic term, explain a
VPN or a proxy or whatever for

801
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:22.760
people that don't forget proxies. Okay, for the sake of this discussion,

802
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:27.679
a VPN is a virtual private network. And if I want to, let's

803
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.320
say I'm in a chat with you, like let's call it Facebook Messenger.

804
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:36.519
Okay, if I set up a
VPN, the VPN allows me and my

805
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:39.599
chat to go directly to your chat
without having to go through all of those

806
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:43.840
other stops. Okay, wait,
let me let me reroute this call requestion.

807
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:45.760
I mean this discussion. So at
school, for example, everyone knows

808
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:49.760
I'm a teacher. The students don't
want to get on the school WiFi because

809
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:52.519
it blocks stuff. Because it blocks
stuff. So let's explain it that way

810
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.119
because I think a lot of parents. So the school is a VPN as

811
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:59.480
well, which a VPN, like
I said, it's a virtual private network.

812
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.119
You can create your own, or
you can join someone else's, or

813
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:07.679
you can just connect to something that's
already existing to put you in another location.

814
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.840
But like the schools goes through the
school board. But like, let

815
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:13.840
me go to the student real quick
So the student is holding a cell phone

816
00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:16.280
and they're getting blocked on everything because
there if they connect to the school board's

817
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:21.480
internet. So they download a VPN, and what is that VPN doing.

818
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:23.880
Yeah, once you connect to the
internet no matter what, and then you

819
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:29.719
connect to a VPN, the VPN
changes your IP address to say, Okay,

820
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.719
now I'm no longer in this line
of stops. I'm going to take

821
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.519
the express lane and go straight to
it. I got you, which completely

822
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:38.719
open, but it takes away the
block. It takes away the block.

823
00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:42.559
I got it. Okay, So
you're going around the block like football,

824
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:45.159
you're avoiding the block. Can y'all
I'm such a man. I can talk

825
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:50.280
football if you put it in terms
of something. Now, when you avoid

826
00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:53.280
the block, so to speak,
the person in the middle is still You're

827
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:57.039
still going through them. You think
about like if you go to New York

828
00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.960
and you can take the subway,
they have the express lines, and then

829
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:04.079
they have the locals that stop everywhere. The express lines still have to go

830
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.519
through the stations. I got it. They just don't have to stop.

831
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:09.519
It'll stop. So like if you
use a VPN with we'll say Cox for

832
01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:15.199
this example, Cox doesn't know exactly
what you're doing and what traffic is on

833
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:19.159
there, but they know where you're
ending up at, and the cops can

834
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:23.639
put two and two together and say
this this device connected to this service,

835
01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:30.719
and this service also connected to this
device at this time, stamp at this

836
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.920
and they can just then they have
to kind of reverse engineering the reverse engineer.

837
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:39.639
Okay, so you can't hurt so
okay, overall, mister Tony Cava,

838
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:43.159
he could find a good IP address. He's like, Okay, if

839
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:46.920
I can find a good IP address, then somewhere in all of this chaos,

840
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:51.119
like you're saying, it has to
be tied to a physical address,

841
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:52.519
and so he's like, that's going
to be key to solving the case.

842
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:57.320
So remember, and I know you're
in here, listener, Remember how I

843
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.159
said old Kava was a hero.
Okay, no, lie, y'all,

844
01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:04.000
I've got to give this it guy
like a freaking shout out. He was

845
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.679
so overwhelmed with the amount of data
and like the utter chaos of the entire

846
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:14.719
situation that he had only one solution
that he could come up with to combat

847
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:19.599
that, and it was to literally
write a new program that he built from

848
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:23.719
the bottom up. Night Nergan Night
is I just said, Sergi night,

849
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:28.559
Hey, we need a nerdy night
for real though, all right, but

850
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:31.119
he built it, and I think
that's cool as shit. Like you got

851
01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:32.840
a problem, you know, I'll
solve it. You know what I'm saying,

852
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.000
Like, just gets it and he
writes it, all right. So

853
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:42.119
after writing the program, he could
ask that program questions, and so he

854
01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:45.239
told that program, Look, I
want to look for patterns in the chaos,

855
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:51.159
so like specifically, kind of behind
the scenes. This is what he

856
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:53.960
said. He did. Out of
the millions of IP addresses that are out

857
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:59.840
there, he asked the program to
narrow it down to thirteen thousand IP addresses,

858
01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:02.159
and then he asked, of those, that's a lot. But then

859
01:02:02.199 --> 01:02:06.239
he said, okay, but of
those thirteen thousand, because like you said,

860
01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:08.920
it gave him a proximity or an
area, he said, show me

861
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:13.679
the top ten. So if there
was that many different IPA addresses, that

862
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:16.000
tells me a couple of things.
That means they use their VPN a lot,

863
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.519
because every time you turn on a
VPN, it's going to give you

864
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.199
a new IP address. You're not
going to get the same one I got

865
01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.360
it. But what also tells me
is if they've used it that many times.

866
01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:29.079
They probably messed up at some point
along the way, right and didn't

867
01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:30.599
turn it on. And you're exactly
right, you're exact. That's why I

868
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.440
brought you here, bro, because
you're gonna figure Okay, So of those

869
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:37.920
ten that he narrowed it down to, he found that eight of them were

870
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:43.519
VPN services, which he couldn't do
much with because he couldn't. Well,

871
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:45.199
the cops can, the cops can, but he was not. But that's

872
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:49.239
a whole nother ballgame and that takes
a long time, and he was not

873
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.599
do something easier, right, So
what he did was looked at the very

874
01:02:53.800 --> 01:03:00.119
top IP address and the one that
was used the most was the number one.

875
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:07.360
Sounds like point seven to one point
six point one point one three bingo,

876
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:09.960
right, So he was able to
get an IP address, and that

877
01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:16.639
IP address was connected to a house
in Council Bluffs, Iowa. But plot

878
01:03:16.679 --> 01:03:27.039
twist y'all, it was the home
of a man even stranger is as Tony

879
01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:32.280
Kava, the hero is working through
this is that man worked for Pottawa Tommi

880
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:42.599
County and his boss was none other
than mister it Man himself, Tony Cava

881
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:49.920
awkward, right, dunt dun duh
awkward. So now Tony kicks back in

882
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:52.400
his seat and he has to realize, not only do I have to go

883
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:57.000
talk to one of my employees,
I got a firing for not being good

884
01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:01.519
at his job. Right, So
listen here. This is gonna be a

885
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:06.840
two parter because there is so much
left to unravel and this shit gets weirder,

886
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.280
but I promise you I will finish
it in part two. Y'all,

887
01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:14.119
you never know who will be able
to break a case and what it's going

888
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:15.639
to take to do that. But
all I can say is go ahead and

889
01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:20.320
paint mister Kava red and black like
jumper cables, because he's about to start some shit