Part 2 | Truth and Deception

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims whose cases are so
shocking that many are left wondering how is

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this even real? I use my
experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined

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with my years as a criminal justice
educator, dig deep into complex cases of

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evil acts, some so evil many
feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable

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as intended for mature audiences. If
you are easily offended, then I'm not

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your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ, you're back

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for another episode. What is going
on? kJ? In the house?

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And before I even get started,
I have to tell y'all something. This

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is a huge admission that I'm about
to state over this over this microphone,

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but I have to admit that I
have a crush today on the producer.

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Okay, this has been a long
time coming, but I have to put

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it out there. And that's because
today it ain't doom, y'all. My

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sweetheart, My sweetheart is in the
studio with me. Blake. For the

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people who are who are watching me
podcast, give them a thumbs up.

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Recalling me I heard Jim Jim come
here since you're here. We're just gonna

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keep it in the audio. No, I was saying, you're not here

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today, and I'm in love with
the person working the camera today, and

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it wasn't you say hey to the
listeners, Jim, Now get out and

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let me keep bragging. Okay,
let me keep bragging on the man here.

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Now back to my blue eyed stud
muffin, who was supposed to be

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the center of that attention. My
husband's helping me to y'all. So y'all

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say, hey, Blake if y'all
get on Facebook or something, because he's

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working hard for Mama today. Aren't
you Blake? All right? So let

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me give some shout outs too,
some people that I haven't done some shout

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outs in the last two shows,
so I want to get these out there

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to y'all. So Ashley Luky all
the way from Pennsylvania. Hi, Ashley,

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I'm so proud that you joined in
and that you are part of my

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team. PJ Duncan from Oklahoma.
Hi, Pj, I'm so proud to

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have you from. Is this Tomkawa, Tonkowa. I gotta look it up.

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I sound ignorant, but I'm glad
from Oklahoma. I'm glad that you're

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here and you've joined in with me. And then I got some people right

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here from the great state of Louisiana, Miss christa guy from Baton Rouge,

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and then I've got Donna Felder from
Marpaul. So hey, y'all, I'm

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so glad to have you join in. This is something that makes this show

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a possibility. Anyone who supports the
show makes this so much better for me

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because I'm able to do a lot
more. And y'all know I still teach

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full time. I'm working towards podcast
in full time. I'm just not there

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yet, so your support means the
world. I also want to remind everybody

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that Springfest is coming up again on
my Facebook page for Unspeakable I posted a

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flyer there so y'all can see the
dates and the times. And I'm going

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to be located at my booth,
which will be near the whistle stop,

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kind of by the railroad tracks,
and I'll be on the corner right there,

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So if you want to come by
and say hi, take pictures,

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I'm going to be there all day. I've got tons of merch and I

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want you to come by and say
hi. It means so much to me.

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And then the day that this drops
actually for my patron members. But

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on this coming up Tuesday, I'm
actually a speaker at the Louisiana Forensics Conference,

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and I'm really excited to go see
those people there. They invited me

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to come speak. I was there
at their last conference, and so it

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just means so much that they think
enough of me to invite me and want

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me to come speak to their people. There's new merch out. Like I

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said, I'm mailing out some members
only wine glasses today to some people that

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ordered the quarterly gifts are coming out
in waves, so be looking for those

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because I just think y'all are gonna
like him. But that said, let

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me jump into to today's episode and
last episode if y'all remember, it was

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a part one right, and I
had my friend Garrett One who is the

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computer whiz, and he kind of
sucked at promoting himself, so I'm going

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to do it for him, but
I want y'all to go check him out.

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He does this newsletter for people who
aren't like me that need to learn

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a little bit about tech stuff,
and if you want to go check him

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out, it's called the Weekly Weedies. And I'm gonna post that for you

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on my Facebook page too, if
you want to go read up on it.

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And he actually took what we talked
about in last episode with IP addresses

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and all of that, and he
used that as his focus for what he

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wrote on this week. So we
kind of inspired him. So that's wonderful.

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Look for that on my Facebook page. I'll post it and then it's

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been a long time coming. And
I know this, but I'm going to

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be rolling out a TikTok page,
a TikTok channel, whatever you call it,

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and there will be lots of Shanani
there. But I think y'all might

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enjoy watching that, So look out
for it and I'll let y'all know whenever

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I get it up and run.
And you can watch my shenanigans throughout the

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week. So where do we leave
off? Last episode? So threats and

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stalking, right, that's been going
on for years against Liz and Dave,

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and you know, it was believed
to be a woman that was behind all

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of this. They thought that this
was possibly Carrie, you know that was

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saying, Hey, I'm doing all
these things to you and that I'm mad

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at you and I'm you know,
crazy about this and Dave had been interested

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in around the same time that he
met Liz in this woman Carrie. But

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now Liz told police that she actually
thought it was Dave's baby mama that was

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stalking them the whole time and posing
as Carrie. And it just was a

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hot ass mess. This entire story
was so crazy it almost didn't even make

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sense, right. So Liz was
in luck though, because police had hired

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an amazing it guy named Tony who
dove right into the metadata of the phones

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and the emails to see where these
messages were originating from. If lo and

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behold, he doesn't uncover the fact
that he can get the exact location of

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where these messages were coming from.
And it was a man. And not

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only was it a man's home that
these messages were coming from, he actually

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worked for Dave at Podawa Tammie.
And this guy's name was Todd Butterball.

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And y'all, I'm not saying Butterball
like the turkey. Okay, I'm saying

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butter Ball be a ug h okay. But AnyWho, this was strange to

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say the least, right because number
one, it was a man, and

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number two, Dave didn't know this
man. The name didn't ring a bell.

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He had no clue who this guy
was and why the hell would he

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be stalking Dave weird. Interestingly enough, though, guess who did know?

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Todd Butterball Liz did see. This
is also where she's about to start looking

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kind of bad. Remember when Liz
moved after that fire that killed her pets

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and it destroyed everything that she owned, and she didn't tell Dave where she

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was moving to because obviously she feared
Carrie so bad. Well, funny story,

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she kind of sort of didn't tell
Dave where she had moved to because

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she had a whole ass full time
boyfriend that Dave knew nothing about. That's

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right, Liar liar, pants on
fire and apartment on fire, right,

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because she had a man, and
she had had a man this entire time

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that she was dating Dave. So
when she moved, she didn't actually move

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away. She just moved in with
him. And the helm was Todd butter

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Ball, her boyfriend that she conveniently
never mentioned to Dave. So I don't

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know about you, but I was
like damn whenever I found this part out.

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Okay, Liz victim or vixen my
lady? Right? Which one are

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you. So interesting plot twist was
that he wasn't a new boyfriend either.

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He had been dating Liz for years
and when they spoke investigators spoke to Todd,

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he even uncovered that he thought he
and Liz were exclusive. He knew

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nothing about Dave. So investigators kind
of take a step back and they're like,

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wait a minute, all these messages
are coming from your house, but

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you don't know anything about Dave.
That's kind of convenient, right, But

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that's right. The whole time Liz
had been crying at Dave's while Carrie was

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there, Liz had a whole man
waiting for her at home. Okay,

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but let's put that aside for a
second, and let's determine this email situation.

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So the emails have been coming from
Todd's IP address, as Tony Cava

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uncovered the it guy, right,
But the times that these were coming out

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were interesting as well, because see, Liz and Dave both received emails from

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Carrie claiming responsibility for the apartment fire
at Liz's. So the email that was

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sent to Dave was sent at eleven
fifty seven pm on August sixteenth and said,

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direct quote, I'm not lying.
I set that nasty horse house on

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fire. I hope the whore and
her kids die in it. The email

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that was sent to Liz was sent
at twelve fifty six am on August seventeenth

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of twenty thirteen, so you know
the clock had rolled over into the next

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day. And in that message,
Carrie also added that she hoped Liz and

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her children burn to death. So
why am I saying that the times of

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these emails are interesting because the emails
were sent on August sixteenth, and the

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fire didn't actually get set until August
seventeenth. And not only did it not

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get started until August seventeenth, it
didn't get started until around eight am on

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August seventeenth. The call came into
nine one one at eight fourteen am,

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meaning the fire probably was just started
just you know, fifteen ish minutes earlier,

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give or take. So if you
remember last episode, even Liz herself

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told the police that she and her
children had left the apartment at three pm

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the day before the fire, and
she had returned at about seven thirty am

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the following morning when she discovered the
fire. So emails are coming from Todd's

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house, the secret boyfriend she had, and then shortly thereafter a fire starts

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at her apartment. This would mean
she would have had to have been there

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when Carrie was setting the fire,
like she would have had to have been

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there at the exact same time the
fire was starting, considering the times the

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emails had been sent. Also,
did Todd pose as Carrie because he had

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possibly figured this out that she had
this other man? Or was Liz the

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one emailing from Todd's house? Hmm? So police dug further into this.

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I mean, this whole debacle was, like I said, it was just

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a train wreck. And they also
found that Liz, like I said,

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wasn't just moving. She moved to
Todd's, but also she wasn't just innocently

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moving either. Remember she was like, Oh, we were planning on moving,

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and that's why you know we didn't
stay there. We were moving.

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No, no, no, that's
not the truth. The whole truth was

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that Liz was being evicted. Hmm. Small discrepancy, but definitely noted.

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Why would you lie about that?
Okay, let's give her a little bit

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here. Maybe she was embarrassed.
Nobody wants to be evicted. That's embarrassing,

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But why would you lie about it
to police? Specifically, in the

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type of situation that you're in your
apartment just burned down, right, your

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animals died in the fire. So
police went on to talk to Todd and

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they wanted to see what all did
he have to say about everything that had

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happened, and Todd would explain,
Look, I'm at Liz in September of

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twenty ten, also via an online
dating site, and they dated until September

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of twenty fifteen. This was five
years of a relationship that she had with

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Todd, and he thought they were
exclusive the entire time, so much so

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that he even helped Liz with her
bills. And I wanted to point that

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out because I had some listeners message
me who know about this case already,

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and they were like, you know, what was going on there? What

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were her finances? Like, what
was this about? Well, that was

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uncovered that Todd was helping her pay
her bills, he helped her buy a

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car, And I feel like the
word helped here is a little convenient and

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nice. On Liz's end. I
think he bought her a car. I

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think he was paying her bills.
He thought that was his woman, you

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know, and he was taking care
of her. And not only that,

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but we now would find out that
he even allowed her and her children to

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move in with him. That's not
some by chance thing, right, he'd

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been taking care of him anyway,
and he was like, of course she

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can move in the apartment burned down. So when Todd was further asked if

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he knew anything about Carrie, he
readily explained, of course I do.

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I know about Carrie. And the
police their eyebrows jump up. They're like,

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wait, what right, they're expecting
him to lie about it? You

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know about Carrie? Yeah, matter
of fact, Carrie and I have been

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texting. What what in the actual
hell I know? Right now? If

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you don't know this story, you're
thinking the same thing. Excuse me.

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Carrie hasn't even been seen or heard
from from most people, but she's been

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texting Todd butterball. He says,
Yeah, Carrie's not only been texting me,

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she's been emailing me. And they're
like, well, when did that

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start? He said that happened in
twenty thirteen. This has been going on

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for years. So this obviously piqued
police interest and they asked him, you

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know, to explain more about these
messages, and Todd was extremely open about

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it. He's like, look,
you know, Carrie introduced herself as one

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of Liz's friends and she was emailing
me. Okay, well that's convenient because

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obviously they weren't friends. And by
the way, how did she get your

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information? Todd, which, by
the way, said that makes me think

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of Christmas Vacation movie. So why
is the carpet wet? Todd? I

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don't know, Margo, you know
the way I said that. Sorry,

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but how did she get your information? Todd? Kind of convenient considering this

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whole snaffoo that's going on. But
Todd never missed a beat. He said,

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Carrie told me that Liz had given
had given her the contact information in

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case Carrie ever needed an emergency way
to contact Liz. They were friends,

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and so here's my information if and
you know, if you ever need to

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get a hold of Liz and you
can't, this is just a backup.

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So that didn't seem odd to you, Todd at all. And he was

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like, no, because I asked
Liz about it. Why is your friend

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randomly emailing me and giving me the
information? And Liz told him, yeah,

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Carrie's my friend. She's just sending
you the information. Well, you

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and I both right now listen to
this and talking through this are going oh

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hell to the nah. But Todd
didn't know what was going on. Remember,

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he knows nothing about Dave. He
doesn't know anything about the situation.

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Todd thought nothing of it, and
he was even chatty with Carrie. They

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developed this friendship through email. They
discussed things like their relationship, you know,

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like Todd and Liz's relationship. They
talked about other things that friends would

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00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.360
talk about, you know, Hey, what's been going on? How y'all

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doing right? She's off doing her
own thing and she's just checking in on

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her friend. So when police asked
him about how he felt about Dave,

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he didn't know anything about Dave.
Who's Dave. Matter of fact, he

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didn't even learn about Dave. He
didn't even know Dave was in the picture

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until after Liz's cell phone was downloaded
by the police when they were trying to

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catch Carrie, and then they questioned
Todd about it. That's when the news

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was broken to him that he wasn't
the only man in Liz's life. Five

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years Liz has been deceiving him.
So in passing, Liz had told him,

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Oh, yeah, I had dated
this guy Dave before it was time

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in the past though, and you
know her and Todd were together now,

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and you know, Liz tells Todd
me and Dave have remained friends, you

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know, just it didn't work out, And when Todd was further questioned about

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it, he said, yeah,
Liz never told me anything about being harassed

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by Carrie or anyone else for that
matter. She and Carrie were friends.

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So shortly after the fire though,
Dave and Liz, if you're following this,

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they got back together. So police
have come to the same realization that

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00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.680
maybe you have by now. Also, Dave had been played by Liz from

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the start. She played the victim
this whole time for years, when in

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actuality it was looking like she was
the evil one. So Dave, as

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you can imagine, he's freaking shookth
Okay, his head is spinning now.

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His mind started going back to all
the time time that Liz was victimized as

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well as he remember he had made
all those reports of his property being damaged,

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and the whole time he had been
sitting here angry with Carrie, this

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psychopath. But what he was figuring
out is what the police had just figured

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00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:25.440
out. It was Liz impersonating Carrie
this whole time. She was playing everybody

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00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:33.000
this whole time. No wonder Carrie
hadn't physically been seen by anyone. However,

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Liz was saying, it wasn't Carrie
doing all of this right now,

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She's going, no, no,
no, it wasn't. That's not what's

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going on. It was Dave's baby, mama, Amy. She's responsible for

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everything that's going on, now,
can you This is so freaking bizarre it

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00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.720
almost doesn't make sense. I'm sure
police were like, what the hell have

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00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:59.920
we gotten ourselves into? Here?
All these women, all of this craziness,

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00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.279
and poor Todd Butterballs over here being, you know, man of the

243
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.160
century taking care of Liz. The
whole time Liz is chasing you know,

244
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:15.039
Dave's hose hose pipe like not hose
h o e s like his hose is

245
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:21.279
wayner. Anyway, Liz, though, in this moment that this is all

246
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.359
being uncovered, she hadn't been told
by police that they were now suspecting it

247
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.920
was her all along doing all of
this. The police are smarter than that.

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00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.960
They kept this close to their chest. So by this point, police

249
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:40.920
are really feeling that Liz is responsible
for whatever had happened to carry. But

250
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.960
believing something and proving it as always, and I say this all the time,

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those are two very different things.
You have to have more than a

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gut instinct, right, That's how
the world works, that's how law works,

253
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how the constitution works. We've got
to have more than just I think.

254
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.519
So they decided to look back through
all of the evidence that it been

255
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.279
collected through the years and see if
maybe they had missed something, because I

256
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.359
want you to remember, this case
had dragged on for a while now and

257
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.799
they had been believing that Liz was
being victimized, Dave was being victimized.

258
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:19.480
But now police believing that Carrie was
actually the victim here. That changed the

259
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.599
whole viewpoint of how investigators were gonna
start looking at the evidence. It changes

260
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:30.839
the scope, it changes the lighting, it changes everything. So Liz's phone

261
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:36.920
had been downloaded not once, but
twice by investigators. The first download had

262
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:41.240
been done just a month and a
half after Carrie had gone missing years back.

263
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:47.160
Investigators went back through that evidence when
they found something that was missed by

264
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:52.839
the original investigators, and that was
a picture of a vehicle which police knew

265
00:20:52.839 --> 00:21:02.480
now was Carrie's vehicle. Why would
Liz have a photo of Carrie's vehicle?

266
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The photo had been taken on Christmas
Eve of twenty twelve. But the thing

267
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:14.720
is, at that point, Carrie's
car had not been recovered by police yet.

268
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.519
Carrie was missing or moved right,
she was gone, she'd absconded.

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So if no one knew where Carrie
really was, no one had seen Carrie

270
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:32.720
and they certainly wouldn't have had her
vehicle. How did Liz know where the

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car was? And if Liz knew
where it was, which she obviously did

272
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:44.519
because she took a picture of it, why hadn't she mentioned that to police?

273
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The vehicle had not been recovered until
January of twenty thirteen, when police

274
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.839
then processed it. And remember they
found that fingerprint on the mint container in

275
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the center of the console. So
now suspecting Liz was involved, they compared

276
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:07.200
Liz's known print to that recovered print
on the mint container and wouldn't Chin know

277
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:12.519
it was a match. This was
huge for police. They're like, oh

278
00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:17.240
my god, we're on the right
track. Why would Liz's fingerprint be inside

279
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:22.880
Carrie's car. They're mortal enemies,
they're they're they're fighting over the same man.

280
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.440
But they still needed to prove more
about Liz and her involvement in Carrie's

281
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:36.480
now believed disappearance. So as everything
was unfolding, everyone involved knew that the

282
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.000
stakes were high because Liz seemed to
be capable of a lot, but what

283
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.000
all she was capable of was still
unknown, and no one really wanted to

284
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:51.640
give her the opportunity to do worse. But the police kind of needed that

285
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.000
opportunity for Liz to let her crazy
show now that they had this different vantage

286
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:02.039
point of what was going on.
So police he even went to the level

287
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.880
of placing a tracker on Liz's vehicle
so they could keep up with her,

288
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:10.279
and the goal was to monitor her
GPS location at all times Global positioning right.

289
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.559
What they would quickly realize though,
was that Liz was spending her time

290
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:22.960
basically circling around Amy's house on a
daily basis, which was highly concerning making

291
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:30.200
sure you're still following. Amy is
Dave's baby mama, So Liz is circling

292
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:37.160
Dave's baby mama's house around this same
time. Dave would come home on a

293
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.960
Saturday evening and go back to his
bedroom to change out of his clothes and

294
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.759
to settle in for the night,
and as soon as he opened the closet

295
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.960
door, he noticed that his gun
had been moved from the place on top

296
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.880
of the shelf where he always kept
it. Remember, he had put it

297
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.680
there for easy access in case something
were to happen, and really unnerved,

298
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.720
he reached up on top of the
shelf for it, and he didn't feel

299
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.079
it, so he started patting the
shelf right. He went left, and

300
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:10.440
he went right, and he slid
his hand back and forth, and his

301
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:17.240
stomach dropped when he realized the gun
was gone. This is not good.

302
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.799
Amazingly, on the morning of December
fifth, twenty sixteen, which was a

303
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:32.880
Saturday, Liz forwarded the police some
additional messages that were harassing and she claimed,

304
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.759
see, these were sent to me
by Amy, Dave's baby mama.

305
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.839
I'm telling you, pretty convenient,
right, all of a sudden, she

306
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.880
gets these emails and it's Amy sending
her emails to harass her, and the

307
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.039
police are kind of rolling their eyes
at the convenience of this. Right after

308
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.440
the whole Butterball information had been revealed
and it was obvious to everyone that Liz

309
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.440
had access to Todd's Internet, right, I mean even Stevie Wonder could see

310
00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:03.359
that where this is all going.
At evening things would take a drastic turn.

311
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:11.400
Liz would again be victimized later that
evening, but this time, y'all,

312
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.559
it's not a threat. At around
six forty pm that same day,

313
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.079
a call came into the nine one
one center from Liz. I want you

314
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.599
to listen as she tells them what
happened in her own voice. Okay,

315
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:34.680
very very explaining. Oh but still
some blood okay, and the sailor's still

316
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:41.440
thereby. I will think sorry took
on. So as you can see here,

317
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.880
this is no email or text.
This is legitimate and Liz is badly

318
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:56.519
injured. What the hell? Officers
were then dispatched to a park that was

319
00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:59.839
in Council Bluff's, Iowa. And
this area was kind of like a wilderness

320
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.480
type area. There wasn't a lot
of people around, wasn't a lot of

321
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.039
movement there. So when police got
there, they found Liz slumped on the

322
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.240
ground near her car in the parking
lot, and it was easy to locate

323
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.400
her because she was the only car
in the parking lot when they got there.

324
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:22.240
Now, one officer, his account
was that when he heard it come

325
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:27.039
over the radio. He was like, oh shit, because remember they expected

326
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.119
that something was going to be happening
to like, you know, Amy or

327
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.839
Dave or something, because they thought
Liz was crazy. But when they heard

328
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.440
it was Liz that was shot,
it's like what in the world. So

329
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.759
she was sitting near the driver's side
of the only car in the parking lot,

330
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.000
and quickly upon inspection, they realized
that she had been shot in her

331
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.839
left thigh. So, as an
ambulance was being routed to her and a

332
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.400
medical team was going to take over
her care, she was asked, who

333
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:59.160
did this to you? Who shot
you? And she replied confidently it was

334
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:04.400
Amy. I've been telling y'all this
Amy shot me in my legs, and

335
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.559
I have photos of this. I'm
I put it on my Patreon for those

336
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:08.880
of you who are interested in seeing
the crime and all that stuff, you

337
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:14.079
can go look at it there.
So police on high alert, they head

338
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.119
straight for Amy's house. They're gonna
confront her about the shooting. And when

339
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.799
they arrived, they knocked on the
door. Amy opened it and she has

340
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:27.200
this shocked look on her face because, according to her own statement, police

341
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.960
were standing at her door with their
guns drawn, and so she is wide

342
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:37.200
eyed and shocked the hell, and
she's completely cooperative and it's like, what's

343
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.359
going on? And once things settled
down, Amy told the police she didn't

344
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.039
know what the hell they were talking
about. She said, I'd been home

345
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.519
with my two year old son all
day. I haven't left the house.

346
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.839
And some things, just so you
know, they're easier to test than others.

347
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:59.160
But this what you know, this
much anyone could have done or tried

348
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:03.359
to figure out what was going on
if she had just driven, and like

349
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:07.680
if she had gone and shot Liz
and then returned home wildly right before the

350
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.079
police got there, you would know
if she had rushed in her house.

351
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:14.839
And then the police zoomed up right
there after her that her engine would still

352
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.319
be warm. There had not been
enough time for her to drive back home,

353
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.400
and her engine not still be warm. So and astute officer just went

354
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.400
right over to her car and he
placed his hand down on the engine,

355
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:30.480
and wouldn't you know, it was
cold to the touch. That car had

356
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:37.319
not been driven. It surely seemed
that Amy hadn't left the house at least

357
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:40.960
in her own car, right,
So to be sure, they asked Amy,

358
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:44.319
hey, can we see your cell
phone? She said absolutely. They

359
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.319
went and they wanted to download all
of the data and information from her cell

360
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:49.799
phone, and without hesitation, she
handed it to him. Sure, no

361
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:53.599
problem, you can look at it. I haven't been anywhere. Sure enough,

362
00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:00.680
if police didn't find that the messages, the creepy ones that Amy had

363
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.319
gotten previously that we talked about,
Remember how those messages she had been receiving

364
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:10.440
about her children being watched at the
park and all of that. Guess whose

365
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:19.440
phone those messages had come from Liz's
device. When they downloaded Amy's phone,

366
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:26.920
they didn't find anything sent from Amy, but they sure as hell found the

367
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.880
messages on Amy's phone, And when
they did just a little more research,

368
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.680
those messages to Amy saying I'm watching
you, I see you pushing your child

369
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.720
on the slide or on the swing, those had come back and they were

370
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:45.480
sent from Liz's device. So in
the meantime, Liz would need time to

371
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.720
recover from the attack, and luckily
she would survive. Right, but she

372
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:55.000
was nowhere off the hook from police. They had more questions. The thing

373
00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:00.240
is Liz's accounts of how the shooting
seemed to have taken place, well,

374
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:07.640
they changed over the following weeks,
but she insisted Amy shot me. But

375
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.480
the thing is, y'all, the
truth it never changes. There might be

376
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:18.519
slight differences, you know, slight
differences in recall, in memory or whatever,

377
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:25.119
but the main facts of the truth
they don't change. And police were

378
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.400
concerned at how widely these differences varied
depending on when she told the story.

379
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.920
So by now police were very concerned
for Dave. They're concerned for Amy because

380
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:41.000
they're like, this bitch over here, we think she shot herself. Did

381
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:45.799
she go to the extent did Liz
fucking shoot herself? This is a new

382
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.119
level of crazy. I don't know
about you, but now they're like,

383
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.559
oh my god, Dave, Amy, the children's safety. You know,

384
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:55.759
this is obviously going way off the
rails. Now, this is not a

385
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.720
joke. This is not just threats. So Dave, being the man that

386
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.559
he was, he's like, he's
gonna put his foot down, and he's

387
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.759
like, I'm going to protect my
children and their mother. I don't even

388
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:10.799
care if she's my ex I will
protect the mother of my children and my

389
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:17.599
children at all costs, to hell
with everybody else. So he felt this

390
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:22.000
so strongly that he actually went and
he moved in with Amy, his ex,

391
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:27.359
the mother of his children. He
moved in her house temporarily so that

392
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.920
he could always be there and he
could always have eyes on his children.

393
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.119
And I know you probably can't see
it, but I got goosebumps. And

394
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:37.200
I know the damn story, but
I got goosebumps because that's a man right

395
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.319
there. You know what I'm saying. You think enough of your children and

396
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.960
you care enough about your children that
you don't want anything to happen to their

397
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:48.519
mother even though the relationship didn't work
out. That's a man right there.

398
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:56.680
So this was in late January and
early February, and it may just so

399
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.440
happen have been slightly nudged by the
police for him to do so. So

400
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:06.200
their thoughts were kind of like,
you know, they didn't spell it out

401
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.359
for him, like exactly, but
the police from in the background going,

402
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.799
well, wait a minute, if
Dave gets any closer with Amy, I

403
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.480
bet Liz is going to freak the
hell out and something else might happen.

404
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.759
And weren't they correct because when they
talked to Dave and were like, look,

405
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:23.839
you know, we're really worried about
your kids, were really worried about

406
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.119
Amy. They didn't tell him to
move in with her, but they're like,

407
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:29.200
you know, you need to stay
close. And that's when he's like,

408
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:30.480
damn, I'm gonna move in with
her. And they're like, oh

409
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.480
yeah, what a great idea.
But really it was kind of well crafted

410
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:38.400
because right after that happened. As
soon as soon as he moved in with

411
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:44.119
Amy, that's when Liz got shot. I'm telling you, police works sometimes

412
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.119
it's more of an art than a
science, okay, And the artist was

413
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:54.519
workingth in this situation. And no
sooner did Dave move in with Amy,

414
00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:01.519
did Liz go knocking down the doors
of the police demanding answers for why Amy

415
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:06.400
had not been arrested. Liz was
in the police station, going, she

416
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.359
shot me, For God's sake,
What the hell else has to happened to

417
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:14.359
me? My house has been burned
down, my animals are dead, my

418
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.079
kids could have been hurt. All
my property for the last few years has

419
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:22.799
been destroyed, and now have been
shot. Why aren't you arresting this woman?

420
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:30.000
So the police continue to tell Liz
that they suspected Amy had shot her.

421
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.720
That's right, Liz, she shot
you, right, although they didn't

422
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:39.160
really believe it. They really thought
Liz shot herself, but they were delayed

423
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:45.440
in saying that they needed additional information
to charge Amy. So they're like,

424
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.920
look what we need to we need
to we need to arrest Amy. You're

425
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.240
right, but we don't have enough
yet. It's not enough. More emails

426
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.640
would be great if you happen to
get any more emails, Liz. As

427
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.200
soon as you get them, you
need to rush them straight to us.

428
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:04.680
Get them right back to us,
Liz. And soon thereafter, just like

429
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:13.440
clockwork, Liz began receiving even more
emails from Amy. Now what was crazy

430
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:21.119
about them was what they said though, because what they said might actually solve

431
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:29.800
Carrie's murder. These emails came between
December twenty first of twenty fifteen and February

432
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.360
twenty fourth of twenty sixteen. Multiple
emails would come in, and the more

433
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:39.519
that came in, the more that
was revealed. They even confessed to the

434
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:45.920
murder of Carrie, even spilling the
details of what happened, including the fact

435
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:52.039
that Carrie was stabbed in her own
vehicle. Her body had been wrapped in

436
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:58.639
a tarp and taken to another location
where it was later burned and then eventually

437
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:05.079
put in the garbage wh and this
seemed rather untrue in that if she had

438
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.719
been stabbed in her car, police
would have seen that blood when they processed

439
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:13.000
the vehicle. Remember, they had
already processed this vehicle when they found it.

440
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.039
But they surely weren't going to call
quote unquote Amy's bluff on this one.

441
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:22.960
Right, the more quote unquote Amy
talked or emailed, the better it

442
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:29.000
was for police, because what else
might Amy supposedly confess to. Well,

443
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:34.840
it turns out another email would even
take responsibility for burning down Liz's apartment.

444
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:42.320
In another, Amy bragged that she
had been posing as Carrie after she killed

445
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:49.039
her, and that the killer went
to Carrie's home after the killing. Now

446
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:53.000
this was pretty impressive, though,
because to police, it was the details

447
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:58.960
of Carrie's home that were mentioned in
this email that could not be overlooked,

448
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:06.920
because the email described the interior of
Carrie's home with absolute precision. Of the

449
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:14.320
most shocked to investigators was that in
that same email quote unquote, Amy described

450
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:22.159
a Yin yang tattoo that was on
Carrie's left hip, and this tattoo had

451
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:27.519
never been described to the public.
Only someone who had been very close to

452
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:35.320
Carrie would know about this privately placed
tattoo, So whoever was actually writing these

453
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:42.679
emails knew what they were talking about
without question. So it turns out the

454
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:47.000
police decided to go a different route. Obviously, Dave would know about that

455
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.119
tattoo. I'm not saying I was
there when they were naked together, but

456
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.480
I'm just assuming, Okay, he
would know about the tattoo, So they

457
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.039
kind of went outside of the box. Police got in touch with Carrie's ex

458
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:07.400
husband and the one thing that he
mentioned about her when they were talking was

459
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.920
that when they got married back in
two thousand and nine, they had gotten

460
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:19.039
matching yingyang tattoos. His was located
on his calf right while hers was on

461
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.559
her left hip. So they're like, all right, so this is legit.

462
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.400
It's the same tattoo, and people
who have been intimate with her or

463
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:30.920
know her intimately know about it and
can verify what it looks like. And

464
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:37.239
Carrie's own mother provided a photo with
Carrie that clearly showed she had another tattoo

465
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.800
as well. Not only did she
have the hip tattoo that the ex husband

466
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:46.440
verified, but the mother's photo showed
that Carrie had another tattoo on the top

467
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:52.320
of her left foot, and that
tattoo was a Chinese symbol that said mother.

468
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.400
Now real quick, I just want
you to know I don't trust Chinese

469
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:59.480
symbol tattoos. I'd be afraid that
they would trick me, and I'd have

470
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.119
a symboled like said something else like
my look, I'd have like earthworm or

471
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:06.679
soy sauce or some shit on my
foot, So like my ass would be

472
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:07.960
thinking unpaying momage, like to my
mom, and it would end up being

473
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.679
something stupid. But Carrie is obviously
way cooler than me because she got that

474
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:16.440
tattoo and it was in honor of
her mother. So the coup de gral

475
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:22.519
would come though, when Amy in
the emails actually then would finally confess to

476
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:30.280
shooting Liz. If that wasn't enough
to get Amy arrested, then nothing would

477
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:36.199
be right. We'll hold your horses. Police went back to Carrie's vehicle,

478
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.000
which, remember it had already been
processed before, and they had really studied

479
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.800
it. When it was processed the
first time, they had sprayed it with

480
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:49.079
the blood reagent that reacts right with
blood, and they sprayed it everywhere that

481
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.840
they could think of that first time. So when the reagent hits the blood

482
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:53.800
and I know, if you're a
try you know, a true crime fan

483
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:57.679
like I am, you know that
it glows under a black light when they

484
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:04.039
spray it. And they had turned
the lights out and the black light was

485
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:08.239
turned on after they sprayed this reagent
everywhere and they went over the front seat,

486
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:13.000
a passenger seat, they went throughout
the back seat, even the back

487
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:20.079
hatch, and there was no traces
of blood, like none zero. Considering

488
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:24.320
that the emails really pushed how well
the vehicle had been deeply cleaned by the

489
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:30.679
killer right who sending the emails,
they were now wanting to deeply search the

490
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:35.159
car. So this time when they
looked at the car on December eighth of

491
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:39.239
twenty fifteen, the explorer was processed
again and it was by the same technician

492
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.840
that had processed it the first time, but this time she was specifically searching

493
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:52.760
for blood from that stabbing confession in
the email, but she found none.

494
00:39:52.480 --> 00:40:00.280
So police really believed that something close
to whatever those emails were confessing to two.

495
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:05.400
They really believed that this was the
truth. But you know, they

496
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:07.000
it was like, there's no blood
here. If she was stabbed in the

497
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:12.119
car, there would have to be
blood, come on, So they didn't

498
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:16.360
want to give up. And two
months later they again processed the vehicle a

499
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:23.719
third time. This time though they
did things that wouldn't traditionally be done without

500
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:29.280
cause to do. So let me
explain. When they processed the vehicle the

501
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.719
first time, they were just trying
to figure out who had been in the

502
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:37.760
car. When they processed it the
second time, they were trying to find

503
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:43.679
fingerprints or blood by spraying the reagent, and they found none. But this

504
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:52.000
third time they removed the cloth cover
of the seats down to the foam padding.

505
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.199
And that's not normally gonna be done. I mean, if there's blood,

506
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:57.840
there's blood, right, you spray
it, it's gonna light up.

507
00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:01.920
But because this car had suposedly been
cleaned so well by the killer, they

508
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:07.639
ripped it apart. And when they
did this, it was discovered that the

509
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:15.159
seat covering may have been cleaned thoroughly, I mean thoroughly cleaned. But underneath,

510
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.320
down in the phone where you would
have to literally cut the car apart,

511
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:27.079
the technician found a large red stain
in the passenger side seat, but

512
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:31.320
they had to get down into the
foam to find it. Bingo, So

513
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:37.119
they did DNA testing on it and
lo and behold, guess whose blood was

514
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:43.079
down in that foam, in a
huge pool in the passenger seat. Carrie's

515
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.599
blood. Now, I don't want
you to hate and be like, why

516
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:49.519
didn't they do that? To start
with? Remember, at first Carrie was

517
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.880
thought to have just absconded and was
harassing and stalking people. You can't forget

518
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:58.000
that they thought she was the bad
guy. Now that she's thought to be

519
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:01.360
dead, and the more information that
they're getting coming forward, they had reasoning

520
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:05.960
to literally destroy the vehicle and go
all the way down to the phone.

521
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.599
So it may have taken time,
but they got it done. And whoever

522
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:15.400
wrote the emails knew intimate details about
every serious crime so far in this case,

523
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:21.079
and whoever wrote those emails was responsible. So now it was time to

524
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.920
settle the score, and technology would
be what they needed to affect the arrest.

525
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.760
So officers asked Dave, look,
man, we're doing everything that we

526
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.039
can, but we've got to be
able to link this here. We've got

527
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:35.920
blood, you know, we've got
a fingerprint, but that doesn't mean shit.

528
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:43.840
That doesn't prove anything connecting Liz to
this. Are there anything any devices?

529
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.559
Is there anything when y'all were heavily
dating. Is there anything that you

530
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:51.039
might have that we could look through
that you may have forgotten about? But

531
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.679
Dave couldn't think of anything. But
that was until February of twenty seventeen when

532
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.760
Dave remembered, wait a minute,
we had a tablet computer, you know,

533
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.719
like the tablets, and he and
Liz would share it back then when

534
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.519
they were heavily dating. So he
went and he pulled it out of a

535
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.800
storage place where he had stored a
bunch of stuff, you know where you

536
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.719
pay to have a building. So
he gave it to the police. But

537
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:21.199
it wouldn't turn on or anything.
It wouldn't take a charge, right boo.

538
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.840
It had been dead so long it
wouldn't even turn on. Well not

539
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:30.280
so fast, because the tablet may
not turn on. But it definitely had

540
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.920
a memory card in it, a
micro SD card which was still in it.

541
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:39.119
It had not been removed. So
good old hero Tony Cava it man.

542
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:45.119
He was the examiner and he didn't
find any existing documents on the card,

543
00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:53.960
but there were numerous deleted ones,
and the deleted ones mister Cava was

544
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:59.880
able to recover, and when all
was said and done, he would recover

545
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:08.000
over thirteen thousand photographs and a ton
of text messages sent either to or from

546
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:16.039
Liz. So what's a bit confusing
though to that examiner was that the tablet

547
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:22.079
didn't have text capabilities, So how
was this information here? This tablet doesn't

548
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:25.239
text, how is all of this
in this tablet? And that's when Tony

549
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:31.800
realized, oh, wait a minute, this SD card must have been used

550
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:37.920
with another device and then later inserted
into the tablet. So working on that

551
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:44.119
theory, he decided to cross reference
what was available to police in terms of

552
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:50.239
electronic evidence all to itself, right, He started taking all the electronic evidence

553
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:54.360
and kind of cross referencing it,
and what he found was Liz had an

554
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:01.079
lg A phone LGVs nine to twenty
cell phone which had been downloaded back in

555
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:08.199
twenty thirteen, and this phone would
have been compatible with that same SD card,

556
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:15.760
And four hundred and fifty eight of
those thirteen thousand photos were able to

557
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:23.119
be recovered, and they were also
on Liz's cell phone, so it links

558
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:29.800
her. These were taken on that
cell phone and then loaded into the tablet.

559
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:34.280
So digging into those SD cards that
have been recovered, there were several

560
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.760
that stood out to him. Several
of the photographs on the SD card were

561
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:44.000
images of what appeared to be a
blue and gray or a silver tarp.

562
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.159
The photos were also taken from like
various angles, almost like if you're thinking,

563
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.199
like how someone takes pictures of a
supermodel, right, work it and

564
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:57.960
they're taken all those different angles.
It was interesting to him in that the

565
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:01.159
writer of the emails claimed that Carrie
had been wrapped up in a tarp after

566
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:07.920
she was stabbed to death. And
continuing through those photos, another one would

567
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:12.280
be a close up of what appeared
to be flesh. It was hard to

568
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.719
tell what it was, but it
looked like a flesh colored object. And

569
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:22.360
what was the most notable was the
fact that this flesh in the picture that

570
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.039
had been taken from Liz's phone and
then put on an SD card that was

571
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:34.840
then uploaded into that same device was
a Ying Yang symbol. So now Kava

572
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.679
is an it guy, right.
He doesn't know everything that the other investigators

573
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.559
knew, but he had his own
line of thinking, and he was kind

574
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.000
of stunned because he was like,
damn, this looks like flesh, like

575
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.519
human skin. So to be more
certain, I freaking love this guy.

576
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:52.800
He doesn't just keep it in the
realm of it. He goes and gets

577
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:57.679
a medical book and he starts flipping
through it to try to figure out what

578
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.360
he's looking at and show enough if
there's not a drawing right there in the

579
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.559
book. As he's looking through it, and it looks just like what he's

580
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.800
looking at, and he realizes this
is the veins that are on top of

581
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:15.480
a foot, and the fact that
post mortem changes are made, you know,

582
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:21.280
when someone dies, called that venus
marbling where around the veins becomes visible.

583
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.639
He looked, he sat back and
was like, holy crap, I'm

584
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:30.320
looking at a dead person's foot.
This is a dead body. So he

585
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:37.000
then compared the photo that he found
to a live tattoo, the live tattoo

586
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.320
on Carrie's ex husband's calf, right, because he's now let the police in

587
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:46.719
on what he's found, and it
was absolutely consistent with it. They matched.

588
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.639
So continuing forward in the picture some
more, he then came upon another

589
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.039
photograph. Again, it's another flesh
colored object that he's looking at, and

590
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:02.400
guess what's on that one? A
Chinese symbol. This one, when compared

591
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:08.119
to the photograph provided by Carrie's mother, was also an exact match. A

592
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:15.400
forensic pathologist would also review the photographs
and would verify that one thing for sure

593
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:21.400
was that the top part of a
human left foot is what was photographed,

594
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:27.960
and it showed obvious signs of decomposition. What Carrie's little mama had thought all

595
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.519
along was correct. Carrie had not
run away, She hadn't been stalking or

596
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:43.360
threatening anyone this entire time. Carrie
was the actual victim in the entire situation.

597
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:51.239
Carrie was dead. Carrie had been
used for the last few years as

598
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:59.480
a scapegoat in someone's game of deception. Dave, as you can probably imagine,

599
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.760
at this point, was at a
complete loss. He could not believe

600
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.280
that the mild mannered, nice woman
he had met had turned out to be

601
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:13.920
so crazy, but now years later, realizes she wasn't crazy at all.

602
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:20.559
She was murdered. She was dead, She had been gone this entire time

603
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:25.760
at the hands of a crazy person. And the guilt for Dave was just

604
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:30.880
so overwhelming, and he would be
the first to admit that he broke down

605
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:35.920
and just started sobbing, crying.
He had carry all wrong. He was

606
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:42.239
so overwhelmed at the whole situation,
and nothing at this point was what it

607
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:47.000
ever seemed to be. And he
also knew that Amy was not behind these

608
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:52.039
emails and texts. His baby mama
was not the one doing this. And

609
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:58.920
the police did two. They knew
it Liz was behind all of this from

610
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:04.440
day one. Police now had what
they needed and they went in and they

611
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:09.280
affected the arrest of Liz Goyler.
When Day and Amy found out that she

612
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:15.000
had been arrested, relief rushed over
them. As you can imagine. So

613
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:22.679
when Liz was confronted in the interrogation
room, she asserted that she had never

614
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:27.880
been around Carrie's car, She's never
even seen it. They asked her things

615
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.800
like why would you create all of
these emails, to which she responded,

616
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:35.679
I haven't created any emails and I'm
not going to be accused of something that

617
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:42.239
I didn't do. But over time
of the questioning happening, she realizes,

618
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.199
Okay, the police knew that the
jig was up, and she says,

619
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:50.239
I'm just gonna have to have my
attorney. Okay, fine, you don't

620
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.400
want to talk. That doesn't change
what the police already know. But they

621
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:59.559
still had work to do. They
worked day and night for months to complete

622
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:05.039
this investstigation. And what else they
compiled would be a nail in her coffin.

623
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:12.960
The twenty thirteen download from Liz's cell
phone showed that it had made all

624
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:20.280
six calls to Carrie's landline on November
sixth and November seventh, twenty twelve,

625
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:27.239
which were just days before Carrie would
disappear. On November fifteenth of twenty twelve,

626
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:36.639
Carrie's employer received a text from Carrie's
cell phone stating that she was resigning

627
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:44.920
and she was sending quote unquote Shanna
Liz to replace her, and wouldn't you

628
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:52.639
know later that very day, Liz
herself had filled out an online application with

629
00:51:52.920 --> 00:52:00.679
Carrie's employer. She was literally trying
to become her take over her life.

630
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:07.119
On November sixteenth, Carrie's debit card
was used to make purchases, one of

631
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.800
one hundred and sixty seven dollars and
seventy eight cents and the other for two

632
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:15.519
hundred and twenty six dollars and fifty
six cents at two separate discount stores in

633
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:21.159
Omaha, and one of the items
that was purchased at one of the stores

634
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:29.159
was a shower curtain with a distinctive
black and white pattern. On November seventeenth

635
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:35.280
of twenty twelve, Carrie's mother received
a text from Carrie's cell phone as well,

636
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:39.280
and it included a photograph of a
check. That check was written out

637
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:45.480
for five thousand dollars and it was
made to Carrie, but it was signed

638
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:52.800
by Liz, and it was asking
Carrie's mother to let Liz into Carrie's home

639
00:52:53.760 --> 00:53:00.119
to retrieve a bedroom set that Liz
had allegedly purchased with the check. I

640
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:05.360
don't care what you've been watching or
seeing. I know people have watched.

641
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.800
I found out now there's a Netflix
show about this. They never mentioned that

642
00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:14.159
part. Carrie's mom was suspicious about
the text, and that's when she had

643
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:19.519
contacted police, Like why would Liz
was literally trying to get in Carrie's home.

644
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:24.320
She was writing checks out of Carrie's
account. If you remember, back

645
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:29.000
in the first episode, Liz claimed
that her checks had been stolen out of

646
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.039
her apartment, when in reality,
knowing what we know now, she was

647
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:38.840
actually stealing Carrie's things. Police had
Carrie's service provider ping her cell phone to

648
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:44.320
attempt to locate Carrie back then when
they thought she was alive, and the

649
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:49.400
ping showed that in the early hours
of November eighteenth. The cell phone was

650
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.960
at an Omaha location, but guess
where it was. It was at Liz's

651
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:59.800
residence. That's why when they searched
for Carrie's phone they never found it.

652
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:06.960
Carrie's Facebook account it continued to be
active after November thirteenth, twenty twelve,

653
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:13.159
making posts and sending messages. The
account making the posts and sending the messages

654
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:17.360
was actually an impostor account the entire
time, and it was using photographs and

655
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:25.559
information from Carrie's actual Facebook account,
and digital evidence showed that Liz was the

656
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:31.800
actual author of all of those messages. The impostor account attempted to contact both

657
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:38.559
Carrie's mother and Carrie's son, and
as a mother, y'all that's off limits.

658
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.639
That is off limits. You can't
murder people. It's horrible what happened,

659
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:50.360
but you don't go messaging someone you
killed's child pretending to be them.

660
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:58.039
Photographs from Carrie's original Facebook account were
also used by Liz to make online dating

661
00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:05.719
profiles in Carrie's name. Dave reported
vandalisms to his property in July, October,

662
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:10.400
and December of twenty thirteen, and
many of the acts of vandalism involved

663
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:15.559
messages referring to Liz as a quote
unquote whore. You remember that well.

664
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:22.400
Each time an act of vandalism occurred, Dave, Liz or both would receive

665
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:30.679
a text from quote unquote Carrie taking
responsibility for the acts that had taken place.

666
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:36.599
They also found a photograph of Carrie's
Ford Explorer, and the metadata showed

667
00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:43.000
that the photograph was taken December twenty
fourth of twenty twelve. Y'all Carrie disappeared

668
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:52.400
November thirteenth, Investigators were able to
find a video that had been uploaded to

669
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:59.239
YouTube by the alias Carrie, and
the video showed Dave's apartment complex, but

670
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:05.880
the IP address used to access the
YouTube account was none other than Dave Butterballs.

671
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:12.400
That YouTube account had been created in
twenty fourteen, nearly a year after

672
00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:19.360
Carrie was dead. Additional search warrants
were signed in twenty sixteen for Liz's apartment

673
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:23.079
at the time, as well as
David Butterball's house, and among the items

674
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:30.039
that they found, they found cell
phones and a black and white shower curtain

675
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:36.960
that matched the description of the one
purchased with Carrie's debit card on November sixteenth,

676
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:43.480
after she was already missing. They
also found receipts from the furniture store

677
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:50.159
showing Carrie had purchased both items in
October of twenty twelve. Liz shouldn't have

678
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:53.519
had those receipts, y'all. Why
would Liz have receipts that were Carrie's.

679
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:59.000
She shouldn't have had receipts before Carrie's
death, and most certainly, she shouldn't

680
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:04.280
have had possession of receipt after Carrie's
death. When it was all said and

681
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.400
done, police were also able to
prove that all of the email accounts were

682
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:13.880
imposter accounts that were made or created
after Carrie's death, and that they had

683
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:16.960
all been hidden through methods to try
to hide that IP address, and that

684
00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:23.480
IP address was Liz's. Basically,
the pattern that I'm trying to explain to

685
00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:29.000
you and your understanding was that every
time something scary or dangerous would happen throughout

686
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:32.519
this entire story, it tended to
occur at times when Dave was starting to

687
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:37.800
lose interest in Liz, he had
stopped messaging her and contacting her, and

688
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:45.559
magically the two were drawn back together
by their mutual fear or dislike of Carrie.

689
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:52.559
The digital forensics administrator that Tony Cava. He estimated that Liz Golier must

690
00:57:52.559 --> 00:58:00.800
have spent forty to fifty hours a
week impersonating Carrie. It's a full fucking

691
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:07.880
time job. Liz was charged,
and she ended up waiving a jury trial.

692
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.519
She opted for a bench trial,
which is where a judge would listen

693
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:15.360
and weigh her evidence. She also
conveniently didn't testify on her own behalf.

694
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:21.880
But she was ultimately convicted of one
count of first degree murder and one count

695
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:25.840
of second degree arson, and she
was then sentenced to life imprisonment on that

696
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:32.360
murder conviction and then eighteen to twenty
years on the arson conviction. Also,

697
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:36.880
I got to add this in.
You remember how I jokingly said that Tony

698
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:40.079
Kava what the IT guy was just
like an IT hero. I wasn't actually

699
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:45.559
joking about that, And I think
this is so important, just a personal

700
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:49.599
note about him. It turned out
a year or so before he started working

701
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:53.639
this case, he had been diagnosed
with a brain tumor, and that brain

702
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:58.880
tumor was aggressive. It was continuing
to get bigger, and so doctor said,

703
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.320
if you want to live, you
have to have surgery. But he

704
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:05.800
asked the doctors, he said,
will this surgery impair my ability to do

705
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:10.599
work, and they said, yes
it will. And putting service before self,

706
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:20.360
Tony CoV made the incredibly selfless decision
to not have that surgery until he

707
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:23.920
had done everything that he could for
this case. I found that to be

708
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:29.559
incredibly touching. He was a man
of his word. He did not seek

709
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:35.000
treatment until he had completed one hundred
percent of his duty in this case.

710
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:38.400
If that's not a hero, I
don't know what is now. Like I

711
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:42.199
said, there's also a Netflix show
on this case, which some listeners have

712
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.679
brought to my attention. But I
have even more that you don't even know

713
00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:51.599
if you listened to this podcast or
if you watch the Netflix show. What

714
00:59:51.800 --> 01:00:00.599
if I told you that Liz was
also involved in another murder, and this

715
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:07.159
time it was involving a child.
That's right, And for my patron members,

716
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.239
you're getting a bonus episode this week, and I'm going to tell you

717
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:15.400
all about it. Carrie's mother said
at the trial, I don't think you

718
01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:20.199
can warn anybody when you find out
that your daughter's been mutilated and thrown away.

719
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:27.400
The judge said that Carrie Farbard did
not voluntarily disappear. She didn't drop

720
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:31.280
off the face of the earth.
She was murdered, intentionally, killed with

721
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:38.280
deliberate and premeditated malice on or about
November thirteenth of twenty twelve. That means

722
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:43.320
so much to the family of this
victim. I'm sure to her child,

723
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:51.719
it means everything that Carrie's name was
vindicated. Sadly, though Carrie's body has

724
01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:57.800
never been found to this day,
police were able to restore Carrie's reputation,

725
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:01.679
and they learned along the way that
she was a good mother, she was

726
01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:07.159
a great person, and Dave even
said that had he known everything that would

727
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:12.280
have come from this, that he
would have rather just lie to carry and

728
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:15.360
say I wasn't interested, because she
didn't deserve any of this. She was

729
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:21.079
a good woman, and he would
have rather forgone his own happiness in that

730
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:23.599
time just so that she could continue
to live her life. But Liz,

731
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:30.519
she could never compare to Carrie,
and she knew it. Being psycho and

732
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:36.440
not willing to bow out gracefully,
the only option she saw was to remove

733
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:40.639
the woman who stood in her way. And so many people were affected by

734
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:49.000
this case, kids, parents,
friends, and it all boils down to

735
01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:54.679
an evil woman. And speaking of
boiling down, I sincerely hope that Liz

736
01:01:54.760 --> 01:02:00.800
is taking lots of super hot showers
in prison so she can practice burning in hell.