NOT FRAGILE LIKE A FLOWER...LIKE A BOMB.
Oct. 13, 2026

Part Four | Hung Jury: The Lindsey Clancy Case

Part Four | Hung Jury: The Lindsey Clancy Case
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Season 12
Part 4 of a 4 part series
On January 24, 2023, in Duxbury, Massachusetts, labor-and-delivery nurse Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children—Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and eight-month-old Callan—then jumped from a second-story window. She survived, paralyzed. Her husband, Patrick, came home from errands she had sent him on and found the house silent.
Clancy has never denied killing her children. The fight in court was over why. Her defense said she was in the grip of postpartum psychosis: delusions, a voice telling her she had no choice, and a mind so broken she could not form criminal intent. Prosecutors said the day was planned. She had taken the kids to the doctor, played with them in the snow, gotten her husband out of the house, and—they argued—knew exactly what she was doing.
The 2026 trial in Plymouth lasted weeks. Patrick Clancy, who had once asked the public to see “the real Lindsay,” took the stand for the state. Jurors heard the 911 call, hospital statements, medication history, and dueling psychiatric experts. After seven days of deliberations they could not agree. Eleven jurors were prepared to find her not criminally responsible. One holdout, Michael Desronvil, said he had no doubt she acted deliberately. The judge declared a mistrial

Content warning: This episode discusses the deaths of young children, suicide attempt, and severe mental illness. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering, how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil,

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many feel they are unspeakable. Warning, Unspeakable is intended for

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mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not

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your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, KJ here

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back with another episode of Unspeakable. How's your week going?

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I ask it every single week and I'm genuinely wondering

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and I'm hoping that you're having a good one. The

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weather has gotten cooler here where I am and it's

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just beautiful to sit outside and enjoy the sun going

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down and even during the day it's not too bad.

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And I enjoyed some outside time while I was actually

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writing this episode. I was a want a little relaxation.

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And so I'm going to finish up the Clancy saga

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for you today. Now, I would like to say something

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to all my friends and family and foes and everybody

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in between. We've gotten messages, and this has happened before,

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about commercials and that people say, I don't like the commercials.

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Totally get that. Absolutely understand that. I'm not a fan

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of commercials either whenever I'm watching or listening to shows

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and things. But It's a necessary thing because everything that

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we do in podcasting costs money. So everything from the

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equipment to studio time to editing, all of that takes

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money and time and all of those things. And so

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I just wanted to be honest with you and reach

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out and let everybody know that if you would like

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to listen without commercials, that's what Patreon is about. You

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can go to patreon.com. You can search for my show.

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And you can pick which level if you'd like to

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join one. I mean, some of them are just about

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like $ 2. 50 a week that it would cost to just

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not have the commercial. So the opportunity is there. But unfortunately,

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it does cost money to do this. And it takes

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a lot of time. And so I would love to

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just spend all my time writing episodes and just not

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make any money. But unfortunately, that's not how this goes.

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So thank you so much for letting me know. I

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appreciate the feedback that Some people don't want to handle

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the commercials, but you do have an option there. So

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go to patreon.com, check that out. And there's a lot

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more things there too, a lot more opportunities and things

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that you can take part of. So that's all I'm

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going to say about that. But thank you so much

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for reaching out. And I hope that that has addressed

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any concerns you had about commercials. Jumping right in, last episode,

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we left off with all of the Clancy family members

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being rushed to the hospital after the most horrific revelations

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were made. If you haven't listened to the first couple

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of episodes, please go back and do that because this

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will be the conclusion and you're jumping right in at

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the end. All three had apparently been strangled, all three

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of the children, at least, had apparently been strangled. Lindsay

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was outside on the ground after coming out of a

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second story window, believed to have jumped and attempted suicide,

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but she wasn't dead. And Patrick had come home and

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found Lindsay on the ground. Once he went back inside

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after all the personnel showed up to try to help,

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that's whenever he found the children, which sent him into

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his own acute medical issue. The children were sent to

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Beth Israel Hospital in different ambulances because they each needed

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their own for all of their life-saving care. And while

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en route, an ambulance radioed ahead to warn the hospital

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in preparation of the multiple children that were in critical

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condition and were headed their way. So at the hospital,

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a code blue was echoed out over the speaker system,

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alerting specialists from all areas to get to that emergency

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room and get their stat. So within just minutes... The

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ER was bustling with doctors and medical personnel and techs

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and everybody alike preparing for these children to show up.

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There were respiratory therapists, ICU nurses and physicians of different specialties,

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all sitting there waiting for the doors to blow open

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and horror to come rolling in. Now, some of the

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ER medical staff went out to the covered driveway to

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intercept the children as they pulled up with the goal

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of minimizing any breaks in care and to possibly relieve

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CPR efforts of the exhausted paramedics who are rolling in hot.

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The first ambulance flew up, and when those back doors opened,

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the staff got a look at the first child that

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had arrived, and this was three-year-old Dawson. So when the

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gurney wheels hit the concrete, the staff took over by

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pushing that baby through those automatic doors down the hall

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and into the trauma bay where he was instantaneously surrounded

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by emergency room staff. He was already intubated and CPR

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was continuously already being applied to his little body. And

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even with this, even with all of the efforts so far,

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he had no pulse and he wasn't breathing. The doctor

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quickly looked him over and noted that there were bruises

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on his legs before pulling back his eyelids and shining

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a light in there to see what's going on. The

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ruptured blood vessels were a graphic confirmation that strangulation was

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likely the cause of what was going on here. Fluids

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were given as well as epinephrine injections and they would

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stop every few minutes to check for discernible signs of

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life and then they would jump right back in to

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that life-saving care. And as this continued, Another ambulance arrived.

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A team ran out to intercept this child, and when

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the doors opened on this ambulance, it was five-year-old Cora.

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Advanced life support efforts were already in motion. Two paddles

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on her chest providing electrical shocks to try and jumpstart

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her heart, which made her body jolt. But once the

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jolt was over, there were no signs of life, at

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least outside, that could be determined or detected. Let's get

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her inside. Let's go. The updated status was dire. There

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was no pulse. There was no heartbeat. So again, those

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double doors opened and a large gurney with a small

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child on it came rolling in. Specialists, doctors, nurses, everybody

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dove in to assess and act on this second child. CPR, again,

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was still in full force. And for the moment, a

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bag was being squeezed to breathe air into her lungs.

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A flurry of people and equipment all over this room,

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all focused on their respective tasks as the doctor's voice

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was heard yelling out directions in the air. ET tube,

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keep bagging until I get her intubated. Cora's lips and

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her face were blue and blood was coming out of

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her nose. She too had the bloodshot eyes, which is

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common with severe strangulation, and her pupils were large and

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they were fixed. A brain injury was suspected with this finding,

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and her discoloration was even apparent down to her little

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blue hands. She just was not the right color. I

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want hookup on cardiac monitor now. Get the IV fluids going.

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Let's check that IO and get it stabilized. By then,

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the endotracheal tube was in Cora's throat, so the doctor

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leaned down and placed a stethoscope to her little chest,

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listing for breath sounds in both lungs. He needed to

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confirm that that the intubation tube placement was correct. And

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while she still wasn't breathing on her own, the continued

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bagging of that oxygen was confirmed to be filling up

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both lungs. Good, secure the tube, connect the vent, let's go.

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I want her hooked up to the monitor and somebody

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grab that bedside ultrasound. If Cora was gonna live, these

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medical professionals were giving her every chance possible. And despite everything,

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the reading on the cardiac monitor showed no activity. This

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was bad, guys. It was really, really bad. The final

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ambulance holding a Clancy child arrived with eight-month-old Callan. CPR

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was still being applied, but his heart had also stopped.

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Inside the ER, the doctor ordered epinephrine, and within about

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10 minutes, by a miracle beyond all expectation, Callan's heart

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started beating. Okay, okay, this was a start. A very

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small step up a massive mountain, but guys, a step.

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The Glasgow Coma Score, if you've never heard of that

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or the scale, it's a numerical number that's given after

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evaluation of basic response. And they're looking in three categories

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when they do this. Eye-opening, verbal response, and motor response.

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Of course, age-appropriate whenever it's a different range of ages

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of people that are coming in. But the score ranges

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from a three, which is like a deeply unresponsive person,

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to a 15, which would be fully alert and oriented.

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So basically, the concept here is that the lower the number,

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the worse it is. So 13 to 15, let's talk

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about the score interpretation here. 13 to 15 is going

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to be a mild brain injury. A nine to a

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12 is is going to be a moderate brain injury.

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And then a three to an eight is going to

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be a severe injury or coma. Now, everything's relative. I'm

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not giving doctor's advice here, obviously. But typically, anything that's

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an eight or lower usually requires airway protection or intubation

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or something like that. Callan, on his Glasgow score, was

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in the lowest range. There was no brain function, but

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his heart was beating. So once he was somewhat stabilized

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at that first hospital, the tiny fella was loaded onto

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a helicopter and he was flown to the Boston Children's

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Hospital to get specialized pediatric care. While they're flying over there,

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he's obviously got these flight nurses with him, and they're

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looking at his little body. And you remain professional, but

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you can't help but look down and see that here's

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this little guy all by himself. He's only eight months old.

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And those nurses inside are going, you're not alone, buddy.

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All right, we're with you, and we're going to help you.

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All of this was happening simultaneously. And Patrick, too, had

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been transported to the hospital to be checked out because

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they wanted to make sure he wasn't having a heart

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attack or a stroke with everything that he was experiencing.

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And he was showing signs of severe anxiety. While he

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was determined to not be in any active medical crisis, emotionally,

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he was destroyed and his despair was palpable. But if

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he thought things were bad when he arrived there, When

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the doctor came in to update him on the children,

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life as he knew it just hours earlier would come

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to a screeching, solid, brick wall stop. Patrick braced himself

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for the news that he didn't even know if he

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wanted to hear. And then the words that came out

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of that doctor's mouth were said, but it just couldn't

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be real. It could not. I'm so sorry, Mr. Clancy, but...

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And Patrick's thinking, don't say it. Please don't say it.

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I'm begging you. No, please do not say this to me.

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But the doctor continued. I'm sorry, Mr. Clancy, but Dawson

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has passed away. The guttural groan, the heartbreak, the physical

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pain his body felt in those seconds is... Nothing that anyone,

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unless you have been through it, could arguably understand. And

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it's nothing that a father should ever experience. The words

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that would change life forever just came out of that

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doctor's mouth with a finality nobody wanted to hear. Helpless

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to do anything in that moment, his mind stopped. started racing.

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I just saw him. He was snacking on his nuggets.

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He had his bowl. He was on the couch. Not

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my boy. Please, please not my boy. But no amount

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of begging would undo what had already been done. All

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that doctor could do was bow his head in sorrow

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because he couldn't undo it. 40 minutes had been spent

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trying to revive Dawson when he was finally pronounced dead

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around 7.30 p.m. that night. Dawson's body lay completely still

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on the bed in trauma room one, just feet away.

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His life was snuffed out. And now, he was just

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a memory? The boy so full of life and building

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a snowman just hours earlier that same afternoon would now

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have to be spoken about in past tense? How? How?

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How is this happening? Patrick was in shambles. His buddy,

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his little dude. Only two of my babies are alive.

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I'm living in a world right now where I was

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a father of three, and now you're telling me that

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only two of my babies are alive. But the pain

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he was feeling in that moment, that sick, unsolvable pain,

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was about to plummet into the depths of hell, as

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far as pain is concerned, because there was now more

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news that also had to be broken. Mr. Clancy, I'm

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genuinely so sorry for your loss. We did everything we could.

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We tried everything, but we were also unable to get

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a heartbeat back on Cora. And Patrick just looked up

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in wild-eyed shock. What do you mean? What do you mean?

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What are you telling me? And the doctor said, Mr. Clancy,

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Cora has passed away. If you could hear, if there

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was ever a time in this world where you could

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hear a heartbreak, this would be that moment. My baby

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girl is gone too. Are you sure? Are you positive?

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I just kissed her goodbye. I told her I would

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be right back. I came right back. I didn't mean

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goodbye forever. That's not what I meant. Patrick just collapsed.

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He was wrecked. His parents were wrecked. The family and

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the friends that had shown up to the hospital, everybody

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just standing there in disbelief. But I'm going to say

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right now that there is a gift that Sometimes it's

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the only gift that can be given to us. And

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the word is actually hope. Because even in the depths

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of darkness, and this is a darkness that I never

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00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:56.389
want to be in, just a sliver of light shining

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00:15:56.470 --> 00:16:01.580
through can feel massive. And a doctor walked in about

241
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.850
that time. And was ready to give Patrick another update.

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He didn't know if he could take it. I don't

243
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.940
think he could take it. But this update was that

244
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one of his children was still alive. Patrick looked up. What?

245
00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:22.899
He's alive. He's alive. There's life in him. Yes, now

246
00:16:23.059 --> 00:16:25.759
I want to tell you, he's alive, yes, but I

247
00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:28.860
need to tell you, Callan's not at the hospital anymore.

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He's been life flighted to the children's hospital and he

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00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:37.429
is in very critical condition. And Patrick whispered to God

250
00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:40.529
in the face of that news, please, God, just give

251
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.379
me one, just one, please. I will give him the

252
00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:47.019
best life that I can. I will raise him with

253
00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:50.220
everything within me. I promise I will tell him about

254
00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:53.379
his brother and his sister. I will keep their memories alive.

255
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I will do anything. God, please, please, if ever you

256
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.620
answered a prayer, please let this be the one. I'll

257
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:05.849
never ask for anything ever again. Never. Please. And he

258
00:17:05.890 --> 00:17:09.930
sent that prayer up, not knowing in the moment if

259
00:17:09.970 --> 00:17:13.470
it would be answered or not. So as far as

260
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Lindsay's condition, her parents were also receiving this horrible news.

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Not only had they just been told that their grandchildren

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were either dead or dying or not doing too well,

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00:17:28.619 --> 00:17:34.009
but their daughter was in critical condition as well. You

264
00:17:34.029 --> 00:17:37.230
have to remember there are victims all over this story,

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00:17:37.990 --> 00:17:40.190
all over this story. And this is not like a

266
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.980
wedding where you take sides in the moment of tragedy,

267
00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:47.740
this was their child too. And they were devastated that

268
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.440
she was in such bad condition. She arrived at South

269
00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:55.000
Shore Hospital by ambulance as a trauma one, which is

270
00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:00.000
the worst level. And their ER stabilized her enough to

271
00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.640
be transferred by med flight to Brigham and Women's Hospital

272
00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.970
in Boston. But because she would need to go there.

273
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They had the more specialized care that had the equipment

274
00:18:10.130 --> 00:18:13.849
and things that would be needed to save her. But

275
00:18:13.970 --> 00:18:17.250
what was that stabilization process like? I don't want to

276
00:18:17.289 --> 00:18:20.009
minimize this. I mean, she too was given a Glasgow

277
00:18:20.049 --> 00:18:22.910
coma score when she arrived, but hers was a 10.

278
00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:26.759
Now I'm gonna give you a little side quest real quick.

279
00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:31.700
My husband was in a horrific motorcycle accident many, many

280
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:35.960
years ago. When he was brought in, His score was

281
00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:41.559
an eight. So I'm familiar with the news of this

282
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:45.180
scale and this score and the consequences of what that

283
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.569
number and how heavy that number can feel. They also

284
00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:53.130
gave my husband a 70% chance of never waking up again.

285
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Those feelings, I don't know what the words are, but

286
00:19:03.650 --> 00:19:06.960
it's guttural. It's a gut punch. I can tell you

287
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:10.019
on this little side quest, though, that three comas and

288
00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:14.599
27 surgeries later and two years in the hospital, my

289
00:19:14.660 --> 00:19:19.440
husband beat the odds. And we thank God for that.

290
00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:22.539
Many prayers, just like Patrick sent up, were sent up

291
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.480
on behalf of my husband. And we thank God every

292
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:31.779
day for answering those prayers. But back to Lindsay. Based

293
00:19:31.819 --> 00:19:36.039
on her score and overall condition, The doctors felt that

294
00:19:36.130 --> 00:19:38.819
sedating her and intubating her in the moment was the

295
00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:42.099
best course of action. Her heart rate was higher than

296
00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:45.029
it should have been, but her blood pressure was lower

297
00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:47.490
than it needed to be. And so they gave her

298
00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:50.180
meds to try to raise her blood pressure. she was

299
00:19:50.259 --> 00:19:55.940
also hypothermic with a core body temperature of 82.1 and

300
00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:59.920
if you want to classify that that's considered severe hypothermia

301
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.470
remember she had been laying out in the snow so

302
00:20:03.529 --> 00:20:05.809
as a result they warmed her up in the room

303
00:20:05.829 --> 00:20:08.700
and And they covered her with warm blankets, but really

304
00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:12.119
it was a bear hugger, right? A device used to

305
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.160
warm somebody up because they're just trying to bring that

306
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.390
body temperature up because it was critical. That was what

307
00:20:18.410 --> 00:20:20.730
they did to pretty much stabilize her at the first hospital.

308
00:20:20.809 --> 00:20:24.210
Once she arrived at Brigham and Women's, she was admitted

309
00:20:24.250 --> 00:20:27.450
into the surgical ICU. And it was noted when she

310
00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:29.289
was there and they're looking her over that she did

311
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:33.000
have cuts across both of her wrists. And there were

312
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.200
cuts on the side of her neck as well. but

313
00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:41.119
there was these two deeper ones that were noted on

314
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.180
the front of her neck. Those locations and depths matter.

315
00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:47.140
That's why I'm taking the time to explain that to you.

316
00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:50.849
She had multiple fractures in her cervical spine, which is

317
00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:55.970
that vertebrae of the neck. And this included also having

318
00:20:56.009 --> 00:20:59.789
a burst fracture at the C1 and a fracture at

319
00:20:59.849 --> 00:21:05.190
the C4 level. Multiple level fractures occurred of the spine

320
00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:09.849
but but also the sides um of the spine which

321
00:21:10.109 --> 00:21:12.670
are very important structurally i found out because that's where

322
00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:16.750
the ribs and the muscle connect uh together um and

323
00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:19.190
kind of give you that structure to hold yourself up

324
00:21:19.990 --> 00:21:23.109
but once she was in the icu another major incident

325
00:21:23.170 --> 00:21:27.230
would occur when out of nowhere her blood pressure plummeted

326
00:21:27.690 --> 00:21:32.440
and lindsey then went into full cardiac arrest um CPR

327
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.890
had to be initiated right then. She was coding. They

328
00:21:35.910 --> 00:21:39.690
had to give two rounds of CPR before she was revived.

329
00:21:40.089 --> 00:21:42.470
They did get her back and they had to place

330
00:21:42.569 --> 00:21:45.210
two tubes in her chest cavity because of all of

331
00:21:45.269 --> 00:21:48.450
the bleeding. And my nurses out there will probably appreciate

332
00:21:48.470 --> 00:21:53.569
this number, but 300 cc's of blood were removed through

333
00:21:53.589 --> 00:21:57.970
those tubes. She was given multiple blood transfusions and she

334
00:21:58.009 --> 00:22:01.329
would ultimately require surgery to repair the damage that was

335
00:22:01.369 --> 00:22:05.900
done in her neck. So overall, the major change to

336
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:11.049
Lindsay's status was that she was alive, but also that

337
00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:14.910
she was paralyzed from about the mid chest down. So

338
00:22:14.970 --> 00:22:19.609
her arms worked. And like if they touched her arms

339
00:22:19.650 --> 00:22:21.750
or pulled them out, she would she would pull back.

340
00:22:23.269 --> 00:22:26.369
And eventually she would be able to sit up, but

341
00:22:26.470 --> 00:22:29.420
she was permanently going to be wheelchair bound as a

342
00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:35.369
So when Lindsay came out of surgery, the realization that

343
00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:39.819
she was alive, her realization, it was somewhat of a

344
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:44.039
shock because she had fully intended to die when she

345
00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:46.799
took the steps that she did on that fateful day.

346
00:22:46.819 --> 00:22:50.990
And I wondered to myself, what must it have felt

347
00:22:51.049 --> 00:22:55.029
like in that moment, not only to wake up, but

348
00:22:55.069 --> 00:22:59.170
then to realize that you had killed your children, but

349
00:22:59.210 --> 00:23:03.460
then did not successfully kill yourself because the agony that

350
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.980
I would think that I would be in would have

351
00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:09.539
been just unbearable. I don't know another word to use.

352
00:23:09.859 --> 00:23:13.059
I know words matter in a podcast because it's a

353
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:18.200
verbal form of communication, but I think my heart would break.

354
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.480
I think I would die of a broken heart if

355
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.059
that's a thing. I don't know how you would go

356
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.480
forward But looking into her records of what happened when

357
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:31.500
she awoke, it was pretty surprising to me to learn

358
00:23:31.539 --> 00:23:35.779
that she was still intubated, but she was able to, um,

359
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.900
she couldn't talk, but she was able to gesture for

360
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.700
a pen and paper. So that was given to her.

361
00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:45.740
And what she wrote on that paper to me was

362
00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:49.079
mind blowing. It genuinely was. I, I would have thought

363
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:51.789
it would be something like, please kill me or, um,

364
00:23:55.130 --> 00:23:57.190
I don't know. I just, I wouldn't want to go on.

365
00:23:57.269 --> 00:23:59.809
Please don't save me. Please do something to make this stop.

366
00:23:59.849 --> 00:24:02.220
I don't want to be alive. But what she wrote

367
00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:07.160
on that paper was, do I have a lawyer? She

368
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:13.359
didn't say anything about the kids. She didn't write anything

369
00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:16.720
asking about her kids, but she did write other things,

370
00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:21.829
but it was not about the kids. I don't know, man.

371
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.559
I know people right now, some people are yelling at

372
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.869
me and some people, their jaw is dropping. But I

373
00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:30.250
don't know. I don't know if that would have been

374
00:24:30.349 --> 00:24:33.210
my first statement. I wouldn't have given a fuck about

375
00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:39.230
a lawyer. I'd hope to die. You know? But Patrick,

376
00:24:39.269 --> 00:24:40.809
let's go back to him for a little while. He was,

377
00:24:40.869 --> 00:24:45.329
of course, now in total turmoil. His wife that he

378
00:24:45.490 --> 00:24:49.930
loved died. killed two of his children, and now one

379
00:24:49.950 --> 00:24:52.730
of the children was barely clinging to life. And I'm sorry,

380
00:24:52.769 --> 00:24:55.250
the human in me wonders, what do you do? Because

381
00:24:55.289 --> 00:24:58.230
you have to ask yourself right now, does love instantly

382
00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:03.240
go away? Can you just drop love? Does anger immediately

383
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.460
take hold? And I got to tell you, the answer

384
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:07.599
is no. I don't think that that would be a

385
00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:11.779
realistic concept. If you left your house one day thinking

386
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.140
that everything was fine, and then came back to find

387
00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.990
everything completely not fine. You haven't had the downtime yet.

388
00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:25.369
The grief was so deep that no other emotion was

389
00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:28.519
even able to surface in Patrick's life right now. Grief

390
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.119
was it. It was the only thing that was tangible

391
00:25:31.180 --> 00:25:35.160
in that moment. Lindsay was alive, okay. He got the news.

392
00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.269
But he couldn't talk to her because she was now

393
00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:41.799
under direct control of law enforcement and medical care while

394
00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:45.019
at the hospital. She was handcuffed to the bed per

395
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:50.720
policy because, again, she's under law enforcement control. But no

396
00:25:50.809 --> 00:25:54.029
contact with her was also in place other than medical

397
00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:57.609
staff or her legal team that would eventually be coming.

398
00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:02.529
So in that moment, Callan was Patrick's main concern. To

399
00:26:02.589 --> 00:26:05.109
say that he didn't wonder what was happening with Lindsay,

400
00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:08.069
I think would be a lie. But his child right now,

401
00:26:08.829 --> 00:26:11.829
that was his main concern. And so he would sit

402
00:26:11.890 --> 00:26:17.990
in that room every minute, feeling like a lifetime, begging

403
00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:21.380
God to give him his baby boy. I need a miracle.

404
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:29.430
I need one miracle, Lord. Now, please. Please. Please, Lord, please. Remember,

405
00:26:29.769 --> 00:26:34.779
Patrick was Catholic. They went to church. He believed in

406
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:39.900
the power of the Father. And so head bent, seated

407
00:26:39.940 --> 00:26:44.440
in his chair, you know, hands locked in the praying

408
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:48.470
position and his forehead down on his hands, all he

409
00:26:48.490 --> 00:26:51.470
could think to do was to reach out beyond the

410
00:26:51.529 --> 00:26:55.720
human realm and His baby needed a literal savior beyond

411
00:26:55.779 --> 00:26:59.589
medical intervention is what it was sounding like. And so

412
00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:02.890
in those moments with his eyes closed in the quiet,

413
00:27:03.369 --> 00:27:06.789
all you hear is the beeping of the machines. He

414
00:27:06.829 --> 00:27:17.109
cried out, Give us this day our daily bread and

415
00:27:17.150 --> 00:27:20.690
forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass

416
00:27:20.769 --> 00:27:24.779
against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver

417
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.200
us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power,

418
00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:33.420
and the glory forever and ever. Amen. And I got

419
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:39.809
to tell you, where words fail and man himself is powerless, Patrick,

420
00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:43.630
as so many others, believed in the power of prayer.

421
00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:49.500
This tiny boy lay there, more tubes and medical devices

422
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:55.579
and equipment than actual baby. That's what it looked like.

423
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.329
And the doctors would give periodic updates, but nothing of

424
00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:03.589
major change that would bring about more hope to cling to.

425
00:28:04.329 --> 00:28:09.619
It was steady, unchanging updates that he kept receiving. More tests,

426
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:16.119
no response. It's pretty much just wait and see. He's alive, though.

427
00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:20.609
But in Patrick's mind, what would that even mean? If

428
00:28:20.650 --> 00:28:23.410
he survived, what would that even mean with a brain

429
00:28:23.470 --> 00:28:27.410
injury such as Callan's? Would he even have quality of

430
00:28:27.490 --> 00:28:31.549
life if he woke up? You know, if ever there

431
00:28:31.589 --> 00:28:35.029
had been a lose-lose situation for a person to be

432
00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:38.779
in the thralls of, I'd have to say this is

433
00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:42.299
one of them. And prayer at this point, just sometimes

434
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.960
that feels like all you have. And so he was

435
00:28:45.009 --> 00:28:48.049
going to take advantage of every chance he could to

436
00:28:48.089 --> 00:28:52.390
give those. So let's talk about the investigation. Back at

437
00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:58.269
the former home, now forever triple murder crime scene, the

438
00:28:58.309 --> 00:29:02.170
detectives were taking it all in. That home was basically

439
00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:05.670
searched the same night that the murders had occurred. And

440
00:29:05.710 --> 00:29:10.309
they went room to room looking. photographing, videoing, and trying

441
00:29:10.569 --> 00:29:15.130
to determine what happened. But to this point, y'all got

442
00:29:15.150 --> 00:29:18.099
to level with me here. Most of us are screaming

443
00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:21.279
on the inside the question, not what happened, but why

444
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:26.740
did this happen? Why? Why did she do this? What

445
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.519
can be figured out? Okay, I got it. But the why.

446
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.599
If you ever watch any show, if you ever watch

447
00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:36.589
any tragedy, why is the biggest question. And it seemed

448
00:29:36.710 --> 00:29:44.380
pretty clear to anyone doing this investigation that suicide was

449
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.500
the ultimate goal in what had occurred in that house, okay?

450
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.039
On the nightstand, detectives found a cup. I do have

451
00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.059
photos I'll be putting on Patreon. You can go check

452
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.230
those out. But they found a cup. On that nightstand

453
00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:01.009
and inside of it, there was crushed up almost to

454
00:30:01.029 --> 00:30:06.029
the powder level medication residue that had assumingly been put

455
00:30:06.069 --> 00:30:09.410
in there and mixed up by Lindsay at some point

456
00:30:09.450 --> 00:30:12.410
before she jumped out of the window. And the cup

457
00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:16.059
was sitting right next to the bloody knife. So, I mean,

458
00:30:16.230 --> 00:30:18.099
logic will tell you she couldn't have drank it after

459
00:30:18.140 --> 00:30:21.220
she jumped because she was on the ground. so it

460
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:24.369
had to have been before. That said, no blood was

461
00:30:24.619 --> 00:30:28.069
on the cup either, so the thought was that she

462
00:30:28.130 --> 00:30:33.730
must have drank the pills, then cut herself, then jumped. Now,

463
00:30:33.829 --> 00:30:37.130
blood on the window as well as the shingles could

464
00:30:37.170 --> 00:30:40.019
be seen on the exterior of the home as well

465
00:30:40.059 --> 00:30:44.660
as on the interior of the house, and investigators by

466
00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:47.279
that point had already called and requested of the hospital

467
00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:50.920
to take blood and urine as evidence to So that

468
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.099
they could be testing her and seeing what she had

469
00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:56.470
consumed and her levels and all of that. Six vials

470
00:30:56.650 --> 00:31:00.279
of blood and one urine sample were taken from Lindsay

471
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.119
while she was at the hospital to be used for testing.

472
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.170
A search warrant had already been cut. And so her

473
00:31:07.230 --> 00:31:10.369
clothes had been cut off whenever she initially arrived. And

474
00:31:10.390 --> 00:31:13.910
an officer was sent there who collected not only her clothing,

475
00:31:13.950 --> 00:31:17.019
but her wedding ring and any of her possessions that

476
00:31:17.059 --> 00:31:19.460
may have been cut off or removed at the time

477
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:23.279
that she arrived at the hospital. Now, pills were also

478
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.640
seized as well from the home. And we're talking about

479
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.049
a ton of medication bottles that were written to Lindsay

480
00:31:29.069 --> 00:31:33.839
and But these bottles were not all empty. A majority

481
00:31:33.859 --> 00:31:37.619
of these bottles still had many of the pills remaining

482
00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:42.809
in them. In the living room, the children's bowls with

483
00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:46.269
some food remnants were found inside. There were two bowls.

484
00:31:46.890 --> 00:31:49.089
Patrick had said when he left the house that he

485
00:31:49.190 --> 00:31:53.029
recalled seeing Dawson snacking on those chicken nuggets and some

486
00:31:53.069 --> 00:31:56.200
green beans. And so that aligned with the bowls that

487
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.769
were found on the table in the living room. The

488
00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:04.849
children obviously were no longer on scene, but their scene

489
00:32:04.869 --> 00:32:09.750
of attack was going to be painfully documented and assessed

490
00:32:09.789 --> 00:32:15.470
for what had likely occurred. Police trooper Joseph Rabbit was

491
00:32:15.509 --> 00:32:18.190
the one that was sent to Beth Israel Hospital with

492
00:32:18.269 --> 00:32:22.130
a job that I would argue nobody would want. He

493
00:32:22.190 --> 00:32:25.740
was the one sent to go look at and document

494
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:30.609
the bodies of the now declared deceased Clancy children. So

495
00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:33.630
upon arrival, he identified himself and he was led into

496
00:32:33.670 --> 00:32:37.609
the rooms in a somber walk to those trauma bays.

497
00:32:38.630 --> 00:32:40.890
And that first room he entered, he pulled back the

498
00:32:40.930 --> 00:32:44.410
curtain and he saw a little Cora lying there. It

499
00:32:44.450 --> 00:32:47.690
was exam room three. And the sight of a child

500
00:32:47.730 --> 00:32:55.099
in that condition isn't natural. Kids should not die. And

501
00:32:55.789 --> 00:32:59.170
they also shouldn't die in this manner that this child

502
00:32:59.210 --> 00:33:02.369
had been killed. And they absolutely shouldn't die in this

503
00:33:02.470 --> 00:33:06.650
manner at the hands of their own mother. But there

504
00:33:06.710 --> 00:33:11.200
she lay, completely motionless. She was blue. She was cold.

505
00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:14.440
And she still had a bunch of the medical intervention

506
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.420
still remaining on her. And all he could do was

507
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:21.299
just shake his head. He's unrelated to her. He had

508
00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:25.269
no personal relationship to any of these children. But for

509
00:33:25.309 --> 00:33:31.789
the love of God, just innocence can't be ignored. I mean,

510
00:33:31.829 --> 00:33:36.250
that is an intrinsic emotion of sadness when you look

511
00:33:36.269 --> 00:33:43.609
at someone so innocent to have suffered such abuse at

512
00:33:43.650 --> 00:33:46.759
the hands of someone who's supposed to love them. You

513
00:33:46.779 --> 00:33:49.279
would expect when you walked in that room for a

514
00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.460
child to be held and comforted, wrapped in a blanket,

515
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:56.210
even after death, by their mom or by their dad,

516
00:33:56.390 --> 00:33:58.829
who just couldn't let go. That's what you expect to

517
00:33:58.930 --> 00:34:02.630
see when a baby dies. But she was alone. She

518
00:34:02.670 --> 00:34:06.819
was lying face up on a bed in those bright lights,

519
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:12.059
as was her brother Dawson in the adjacent room. So

520
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:16.539
he goes in and he does the job. But, you know,

521
00:34:16.579 --> 00:34:19.059
when people say, oh, well, that's what cops signed up for.

522
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:23.039
I don't like when people say that because And there's

523
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.739
not a cop I know that says, I signed up

524
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:31.039
to go look at dead children. You want to save children.

525
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:33.739
But you still have to do the job when it

526
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.289
doesn't go right. So he was in there. Cora's hands

527
00:34:37.349 --> 00:34:40.289
were bagged in these brown paper bags, and she was

528
00:34:40.349 --> 00:34:43.809
photographed from head to toe. Some of those bruises and

529
00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:47.809
scratches that were noted on her body were fresh. It

530
00:34:47.829 --> 00:34:50.170
looked like she had put up a fight against her

531
00:34:50.230 --> 00:34:52.610
mama as best as she could. as she could, but

532
00:34:52.659 --> 00:34:56.079
the autopsy would obviously have to confirm it, but it

533
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:59.099
seemed pretty clear at bedside what this baby had been through.

534
00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:04.170
He then moved over to trauma room one, where Dawson

535
00:35:04.230 --> 00:35:08.130
was then seen in much the same condition. Little fellow

536
00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:12.329
was by himself, lying there face up, his hands were bagged,

537
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.280
Photographs were taken, the flash of the camera, notes taken, repeat,

538
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.090
just picture, picture, picture, write the notes, write the notes.

539
00:35:22.909 --> 00:35:26.389
And then when it was done, there was nothing left

540
00:35:26.449 --> 00:35:29.610
to do, but both of the children were taken away

541
00:35:29.670 --> 00:35:34.199
and sent down to the morgue. Now Callan had been

542
00:35:34.219 --> 00:35:36.579
in trauma room two before he was life flighted to

543
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.840
the children's hospital where he would continue to be monitored

544
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:44.420
for the next three days. And Patrick remained in that cold,

545
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.889
low-lit room, and the whole time he was talking to Callan.

546
00:35:49.949 --> 00:35:52.130
He was talking to God, and he was talking to

547
00:35:52.150 --> 00:35:57.829
the doctors. Callan had gained circulation, but he remained limp.

548
00:35:58.510 --> 00:36:02.170
He was cold. His eyes were fixed. They were dilated.

549
00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:08.099
A severe brain injury was undeniable, and his CT scan

550
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.559
showed that his brain was terribly swollen. His throat was swollen,

551
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.880
and he was remaining on a ventilator. He was not

552
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:18.300
able to breathe on his own. And as far as

553
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:24.420
Patrick was concerned, does that sound like an update to you?

554
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:29.719
Or does this sound like three days of continual anguish?

555
00:36:30.309 --> 00:36:33.869
I mean, I'll let you decide as the listener. But

556
00:36:34.329 --> 00:36:38.880
in that time frame, the seed was planted. that decisions

557
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:43.179
may have to be made for what's going to ultimately

558
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.719
happen to Callan. Now, during those days of thinking and

559
00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:52.380
praying and talking, his two other children would be autopsied.

560
00:36:53.380 --> 00:36:55.420
And Cora's autopsy, I got to tell you, it is

561
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:59.429
quite brutal for the average person to hear this. Her

562
00:36:59.780 --> 00:37:02.650
eyes and her brain, as well as her spinal cord,

563
00:37:02.710 --> 00:37:05.889
were removed, and those were sent off to a specialist.

564
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:13.519
that specialist confirmed that her eyes had been hemorrhaging as

565
00:37:13.579 --> 00:37:17.260
well as her optic nerves and her left eye was

566
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.969
very damaged by the hemorrhaging due to the strangulation. Her

567
00:37:23.050 --> 00:37:25.949
body at the morgue was still in that cervical collar.

568
00:37:26.250 --> 00:37:28.269
She was still covered in the medical pads and the

569
00:37:28.449 --> 00:37:31.010
IVs were still inserted and all of that. So it

570
00:37:31.349 --> 00:37:34.030
would have to be removed. But of note was that

571
00:37:34.130 --> 00:37:38.500
her fingers were, were not injured in any way. Her

572
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:42.050
nails weren't broken or anything like that, but her face was.

573
00:37:42.769 --> 00:37:46.309
There were scratches and there were abrasions, and some of

574
00:37:46.369 --> 00:37:50.489
those looked to be carpet burns. So this led the

575
00:37:51.150 --> 00:37:55.719
doctor to believe that Cora was likely face down when

576
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.860
she was strangled. The indention around her neck was very

577
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:03.000
obvious from the exercise band, and it went all the

578
00:38:03.019 --> 00:38:06.849
way around her neck. And the lack of the scratching

579
00:38:07.389 --> 00:38:11.929
or the finger injuries because her arms were down by

580
00:38:11.969 --> 00:38:14.230
her side. So if you think about it, she was

581
00:38:14.329 --> 00:38:17.130
face down, arms by her side. To be able to

582
00:38:17.250 --> 00:38:20.070
scratch or fight back or claw would have just been

583
00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:24.929
physically impossible. She also had an injury to her right

584
00:38:25.050 --> 00:38:28.690
wrist and her right leg. There were various bruises as well.

585
00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:33.230
There were three bruises on her right bicep maybe from

586
00:38:33.369 --> 00:38:37.010
fingers grabbing her I don't know that for sure, but

587
00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:40.780
many of those bruises were noted to be still red.

588
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:46.380
So they were new. These were not old bruises. Strangulation

589
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.239
was confirmed as her manner of death and the cause

590
00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:53.079
was asphyxia. Basically, the blood was trapped in her head

591
00:38:53.860 --> 00:38:58.099
as she was strangled and it couldn't circulate. The pressure

592
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.539
backed up so tight that it had nowhere to go.

593
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:05.300
And so the vessels in her eyes And around her

594
00:39:05.550 --> 00:39:09.659
eyes and her lips burst with nowhere for that blood

595
00:39:09.860 --> 00:39:13.639
to go. This was a brutal way to die, as

596
00:39:13.699 --> 00:39:17.920
the doctor noted that the nerves were all intact. And

597
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:24.059
that would have resulted in extreme pain while she was unconscious. Boom. Boom.

598
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.980
Until she was unconscious. Irreversible brain damage would have occurred

599
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:41.880
within three minutes. And death was certain after a continuous

600
00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:46.239
applied force, enough to compress the arteries, was applied. But y'all,

601
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:51.989
for minutes. It takes minutes to to kill somebody. You

602
00:39:52.030 --> 00:39:58.869
don't accidentally strangle someone. It's done on purpose. Dawson's autopsy

603
00:39:58.909 --> 00:40:01.570
showed much of the same, and I don't want to

604
00:40:01.670 --> 00:40:03.889
minimize it, but I also don't want to be repetitive.

605
00:40:04.300 --> 00:40:08.159
So in brief, his eyes showed that same hemorrhaging, but

606
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:12.519
his right eye and retina and optic nerve showed additional

607
00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:19.659
bleeding and trauma as compared to Korra. His petechial hemorrhaging

608
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:24.500
spots and his eye vessels also had burst, but his

609
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:29.449
was much more expansive. And the doctor believed it was

610
00:40:29.469 --> 00:40:31.909
darker too. It was very dark and it was much larger.

611
00:40:31.949 --> 00:40:34.110
And so the doctor made a note that it was

612
00:40:34.170 --> 00:40:39.269
believed this was because he must have been squeezed, released, squeezed, released.

613
00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:42.670
And the belief here was that it's probably because he

614
00:40:42.730 --> 00:40:45.989
was resisting and he was struggling so that pressure wasn't

615
00:40:46.030 --> 00:40:51.710
exactly as constant as and Dawson was found face up.

616
00:40:52.429 --> 00:40:55.280
So this would make sense that he was able to

617
00:40:55.380 --> 00:41:01.900
fight more. His cause of death was also asphyxia by strangulation.

618
00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:06.380
So those reports were written and they were submitted to

619
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.909
the police, but the trauma was still not done because

620
00:41:10.969 --> 00:41:14.690
baby Callen, these three days later, was still lying unresponsive

621
00:41:15.090 --> 00:41:20.239
at that hospital. And so doctors came in and there

622
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:25.500
was a teary-eyed Patrick sitting there. And on January 28th,

623
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:31.019
in-depth practical discussion was had. In all of their testing,

624
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.599
the results were the same. Callan was alive, but he

625
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:40.269
was brain dead. There was no brain function in the child.

626
00:41:41.449 --> 00:41:44.750
Only the machines were keeping him alive. So if the

627
00:41:44.789 --> 00:41:50.030
machines were removed, he would not Survive. And with all

628
00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:55.639
of that information, Patrick had to make a decision. And

629
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:59.440
basically what he heard was, your wife may have started this,

630
00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:04.019
but you have to finish it. That's at least how

631
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.199
it sounded to him. That's not what the doctor said,

632
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.670
but that's sure as hell how it sounded. My wife

633
00:42:09.730 --> 00:42:12.530
did this, but yet I have to make that final decision?

634
00:42:14.010 --> 00:42:16.989
His last child in birth order as well as life.

635
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:20.960
wasn't going to live, but he would have to make

636
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.380
that happen. And he didn't want to. He wanted his

637
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:27.980
baby to wake up. Don't make me do this. Please

638
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:31.300
don't make me do this. But the reality is he's

639
00:42:31.340 --> 00:42:35.570
the only one to be the decision maker. It had

640
00:42:35.610 --> 00:42:39.550
to be him. So the doctors advised him and then

641
00:42:39.590 --> 00:42:42.650
left him to speak with his family and make that

642
00:42:42.710 --> 00:42:46.710
hard decision. And after their discussions and them going round

643
00:42:46.750 --> 00:42:53.610
and round, The reality was that this wasn't life. Callan

644
00:42:53.650 --> 00:42:57.369
would never recover. He was only alive because machines were

645
00:42:57.429 --> 00:43:01.349
keeping him that way. And so Patrick ultimately decided to

646
00:43:01.389 --> 00:43:05.480
do the merciful thing and to allow nature to take

647
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:11.400
its course. Patrick wasn't killing Callan. Nature was going to

648
00:43:11.420 --> 00:43:17.260
take its course as the consequence of Lindsay's actions. And

649
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:20.739
on January the 28th, surrounded by his daddy and his

650
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:24.699
loved ones, Cal and Clancy passed away at the age

651
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:28.110
of eight months old and was accepted into the arms

652
00:43:28.750 --> 00:43:34.710
of Jesus. And there's a little silence there because I

653
00:43:34.730 --> 00:43:39.179
don't think it should be filled. I think that's how

654
00:43:39.219 --> 00:43:45.300
it felt. Silence. His baby's gone. All of his babies

655
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:50.199
are gone. And he was then left to collect his

656
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:54.719
things and walk out of that children's hospital with empty arms.

657
00:43:55.139 --> 00:44:00.219
Not one child to return back home with. And to

658
00:44:00.260 --> 00:44:04.900
that note, what was home now? Certainly not his house.

659
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.579
The place full of family pictures and toys and the

660
00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:13.610
remnants of his so-called life now. What life? His life

661
00:44:13.650 --> 00:44:16.730
was over as far as he was concerned. His family

662
00:44:17.210 --> 00:44:23.010
was gone. The investigation into the chain of events that

663
00:44:23.030 --> 00:44:26.030
took place that day would include a forensic audit of

664
00:44:26.110 --> 00:44:32.090
cell phones, tablets, medical records, depositions, interviews, you name it.

665
00:44:32.610 --> 00:44:35.469
There's a ton of it. And while much of what

666
00:44:35.530 --> 00:44:38.349
was learned in this process would take me another week

667
00:44:38.389 --> 00:44:40.300
to lay out for you, what I'm going to do

668
00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:47.000
is reduce the investigation into consumable facts, not opinions. These

669
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.230
are the facts. Patrick was interviewed. And he gave his

670
00:44:50.269 --> 00:44:52.809
account of what took place the day of the murders.

671
00:44:53.269 --> 00:44:55.849
But he also explained to them in that interview that

672
00:44:55.909 --> 00:44:58.929
Lindsay had been very depressed for the last few months.

673
00:45:00.130 --> 00:45:02.630
When a cell phone extraction was done on the day

674
00:45:02.670 --> 00:45:05.670
of the murders, it would show that Lindsay took Cora

675
00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:09.250
to the doctor that morning. And that was true. It

676
00:45:09.289 --> 00:45:12.909
was evidenced by photos and texts between herself and Patrick

677
00:45:12.969 --> 00:45:15.710
that morning. And this gave a start to the timeline

678
00:45:15.809 --> 00:45:18.780
of the events for the day. Lindsay's phone would be

679
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:22.940
a trove of insight to her thoughts and her actions,

680
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.719
not only over the past months, but specifically the day

681
00:45:26.860 --> 00:45:30.489
of the murders. And everything that Patrick said had happened

682
00:45:30.570 --> 00:45:34.269
that day seemed to be validated by the messages and

683
00:45:34.289 --> 00:45:38.550
the timeline. After the doctor visit, they came back home

684
00:45:38.610 --> 00:45:42.119
and Lindsay played with the kids, including building that snowman

685
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.840
I mentioned in last episode, which she sent a picture of,

686
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:48.019
via text. The kids' boots were right by the back

687
00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:50.519
door as when they came in and they kicked them

688
00:45:50.659 --> 00:45:55.789
off before coming inside for their snacks. The timeline and

689
00:45:55.829 --> 00:46:00.469
the digital evidence would become very interesting, though. Very interesting.

690
00:46:01.570 --> 00:46:04.949
Because while Cora did have a tummy ache and the

691
00:46:04.989 --> 00:46:09.079
doctor did confirm that she had suggested something like Miralax

692
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.599
to help her potty better, it was the circumstances surrounding

693
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:16.760
Patrick going to the CVS to get Miralax that didn't

694
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:22.280
quite make sense to investigators. He was on video surveillance, okay?

695
00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:25.280
He was on that video surveillance arriving there and buying

696
00:46:25.300 --> 00:46:28.000
the off-brand Miralax, just as he said, and he was

697
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.179
on camera afterwards picking up that food from the restaurant 3V,

698
00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:35.219
just like he said. The medicine and the food was

699
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:38.480
also on the counter in the home, just as Patrick

700
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:40.679
said he had brought it in when he found that

701
00:46:40.699 --> 00:46:44.440
the house was strangely quiet upon return. But I want

702
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:48.980
you to follow me here. Lindsay's cell phone showed that

703
00:46:49.110 --> 00:46:52.929
she had made a call to CVS before sending Patrick

704
00:46:52.969 --> 00:46:56.809
there for the medicine. The manager was contacted. The manager

705
00:46:56.829 --> 00:47:01.050
of the CVS confirmed she spoke to Lindsay and that

706
00:47:01.309 --> 00:47:03.219
she had confirmed to Lindsay that not only was the

707
00:47:03.260 --> 00:47:05.679
medication there that she was looking for, but that it

708
00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:09.159
was also in stock. Lindsay sounded normal, just like a

709
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:14.559
normal mom calling to find medication. Same with 3V, the restaurant.

710
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:17.139
They confirmed that Lindsay had also called in the food.

711
00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:21.179
She had made the order, which she made with no problems.

712
00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:23.730
She was it was just a normal thing. And they

713
00:47:23.769 --> 00:47:26.510
also confirmed that Patrick paid and picked up for the food.

714
00:47:26.650 --> 00:47:29.289
And it was, you know, compared with the timestamps and

715
00:47:29.429 --> 00:47:33.110
on on the surveillance. And that is what happened. But

716
00:47:33.150 --> 00:47:37.369
investigators asked both Lindsay and Patrick if they had ever

717
00:47:37.570 --> 00:47:41.409
eaten at the restaurant 3V before, and they both said

718
00:47:41.489 --> 00:47:46.710
yes many times. Had they ever been by or at

719
00:47:46.769 --> 00:47:51.570
least seen that CVS that he bought the medicine at before? Yes,

720
00:47:51.730 --> 00:47:55.559
of course. They'd lived there for years. And this is

721
00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.099
what brought about some of the questions. Because Lindsay's phone

722
00:48:00.179 --> 00:48:05.139
showed that the afternoon after they built the snowman, she

723
00:48:05.219 --> 00:48:10.619
searched for kids Miralax. And then later on that afternoon

724
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.159
is when she called the CVS to make sure that

725
00:48:13.179 --> 00:48:19.449
they had it in stock. It was about 4.13 whenever

726
00:48:20.190 --> 00:48:23.949
she started her searches related to takeout for the 3V restaurant.

727
00:48:25.269 --> 00:48:31.449
But what's weird is that After that, Lindsay's device opened

728
00:48:32.070 --> 00:48:37.860
the Maps app. Why did she need to know how

729
00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:41.219
long it would take for Patrick to drive to the

730
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.909
3-V restaurant when they had been there many times before?

731
00:48:46.090 --> 00:48:49.389
It looked in what she was doing as though she

732
00:48:49.429 --> 00:48:51.670
was timing how long it would take him to go

733
00:48:51.730 --> 00:48:54.769
there and to come back. So follow me on this

734
00:48:54.809 --> 00:48:57.510
because it's the order of the searches that really raised

735
00:48:57.769 --> 00:49:00.929
some questions. The Miralax search I just told you was

736
00:49:01.150 --> 00:49:05.010
earlier in the afternoon. The 3V search, restaurant search, was

737
00:49:05.469 --> 00:49:10.050
later on after that. Then about a half hour after

738
00:49:10.090 --> 00:49:13.599
that is when she called the CVS asking about the

739
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:18.010
medication confirming that it was in stock. Then she texted

740
00:49:18.070 --> 00:49:21.059
Patrick about picking up dinner because she said she was

741
00:49:21.099 --> 00:49:24.059
tired and she had had a long day. He agreed,

742
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:26.920
no problem. It was a bit later whenever he left

743
00:49:26.980 --> 00:49:29.079
out of the house, which is around 5.15 after he

744
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:32.840
kissed the kids. But she never asked him to pick

745
00:49:32.909 --> 00:49:36.289
up the Miralax. She never even mentioned that she had

746
00:49:36.730 --> 00:49:41.099
researched it, called CVS. done all of these things until

747
00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:43.900
he was walking right out of the door. And she

748
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:46.039
said it as though it was a last minute thought. Oh,

749
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.079
by the way, while you're out, would you mind picking

750
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:52.719
up the Miralax? And you have to ask yourself, she

751
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:57.679
had already done the legwork even before the dinner request.

752
00:49:58.010 --> 00:50:00.869
So why did you ask or why did you wait

753
00:50:01.389 --> 00:50:06.469
to ask? Investigators wanted to know because it wasn't last minute.

754
00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:10.090
She had been researched that, or been done is what

755
00:50:10.110 --> 00:50:14.250
I almost said. She had done been researched that. So

756
00:50:14.710 --> 00:50:17.590
he told her, look, that's fine. I don't mind at

757
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:20.239
last minute, just text me the medication. And then he

758
00:50:20.300 --> 00:50:22.940
walked out of the door. And at 515 is whenever

759
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.260
she sent that text message with the medication. And then

760
00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:29.619
he drove away. What it looked like was that this

761
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:35.320
last minute ask on the face of it was, was just, oh,

762
00:50:35.579 --> 00:50:38.230
I forgot. Can you please pick up some Miralax? But

763
00:50:38.289 --> 00:50:41.369
if you combine it with the weird travel timing for

764
00:50:41.389 --> 00:50:45.110
the search for the 3V restaurant and then calling to

765
00:50:45.150 --> 00:50:47.630
see if they had it in stock, it looked like

766
00:50:47.949 --> 00:50:50.639
it was an added errand to make sure that he

767
00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:57.739
would be gone longer. At 5.15, after she sent that message,

768
00:50:58.739 --> 00:51:02.659
Lindsay locked her phone. And that was reported as the

769
00:51:02.780 --> 00:51:07.860
final lock event of her phone that day. No more

770
00:51:08.139 --> 00:51:12.280
unlocking to make calls, no more searches, none of that.

771
00:51:12.489 --> 00:51:17.570
But her Apple Health data was still running. And it

772
00:51:17.690 --> 00:51:22.190
showed that she was definitely doing something while Patrick was gone.

773
00:51:23.010 --> 00:51:25.449
It showed that she was going up and down stairs.

774
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:29.500
like the basement, for example. And your phone, by the way,

775
00:51:30.389 --> 00:51:34.170
it's not just movement, it's elevation. Your phone can tell

776
00:51:34.210 --> 00:51:38.030
if you're climbing stairs or not based on elevation. And

777
00:51:38.050 --> 00:51:41.730
there was this elevation change. So at 5.15 is when

778
00:51:41.750 --> 00:51:46.110
she locked the phone and when Patrick left out the door. 5.33,

779
00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:54.309
15 minutes later, is when Patrick called Lindsay. from the CVS.

780
00:51:54.650 --> 00:52:00.210
That call went unanswered according to the device timeline. 34

781
00:52:00.210 --> 00:52:04.150
seconds later is whenever her Apple device or her health

782
00:52:04.269 --> 00:52:10.130
Apple app showed that there was another climbing of stairs

783
00:52:11.809 --> 00:52:15.869
that happened. It was at that exact moment after the

784
00:52:15.869 --> 00:52:20.889
34 seconds that Lindsay's phone returned the call to Patrick.

785
00:52:22.139 --> 00:52:25.159
that he had made from the CVS. And they spoke

786
00:52:25.179 --> 00:52:28.059
for only 14 seconds confirming that that was the medicine

787
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.880
that she wanted. It was four minutes later, and this

788
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.199
is confirmed by a surveillance video, that he paid and

789
00:52:35.219 --> 00:52:39.280
he left. So he was out of the CVS by 538.

790
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:45.610
At 538.33, Lindsay's phone shows that she climbed the stairs again.

791
00:52:45.650 --> 00:52:52.130
Another event of the stairs happened. After this, There's no

792
00:52:52.210 --> 00:52:59.800
further activity of movement on that phone. At 5.54, there's

793
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:03.659
a timestamp where Patrick was at the restaurant. He collected

794
00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:07.179
the food and he left. And then five to 10

795
00:53:07.179 --> 00:53:11.010
minutes later is whenever he returned back home. 6.09 is

796
00:53:12.889 --> 00:53:15.679
is whenever Patrick called Lindsay again on her cell phone

797
00:53:15.699 --> 00:53:17.940
because remember the house was quiet, he couldn't find anyone.

798
00:53:18.460 --> 00:53:21.340
And two minutes later is when the call to 911

799
00:53:21.340 --> 00:53:26.159
was made. This timeline was laying out pretty solid between

800
00:53:26.260 --> 00:53:31.190
all of the devices, security, surveillance, and everything. Now, do

801
00:53:31.210 --> 00:53:34.030
you remember that notebook back from episode one or of

802
00:53:34.070 --> 00:53:40.239
the series where I mentioned that Lindsay would keep a

803
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:42.949
lot of track of like her medications. She also had

804
00:53:42.969 --> 00:53:46.170
a notebook to keep in touch with the nanny and

805
00:53:46.210 --> 00:53:51.150
all of that. In her medication notebook, there were logs

806
00:53:51.269 --> 00:53:54.329
of all of the medication that she was taking and

807
00:53:54.389 --> 00:53:56.869
when she was taking it, et cetera. And the police

808
00:53:56.949 --> 00:53:59.869
found that during their search of the home. It was

809
00:53:59.929 --> 00:54:04.500
extremely meticulous, day after day, time after time, extremely meticulous,

810
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:08.840
almost like a nurse charting, right? But then it just stopped.

811
00:54:09.289 --> 00:54:13.650
It abruptly stopped. Now, I know right now you're like, well,

812
00:54:13.889 --> 00:54:15.889
no shit. She tried to kill herself. She didn't keep

813
00:54:15.929 --> 00:54:19.880
track after that. But that's not exactly what I'm saying.

814
00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:24.099
The last entry dates on those logs in her notebook,

815
00:54:24.820 --> 00:54:29.329
that was January 18th. That was five days before the

816
00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:33.030
children were murdered and she tried to kill herself. Why

817
00:54:33.070 --> 00:54:37.030
would someone so meticulous in logging their appointments and their

818
00:54:37.130 --> 00:54:40.250
messages and communicating with all of their providers and the

819
00:54:40.630 --> 00:54:43.170
medication changes and when they took it and the dosage

820
00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:47.769
and yada, yada, yada. Why would that suddenly just stop

821
00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:54.449
five days before a catastrophe? To investigators, this looked like

822
00:54:54.510 --> 00:54:58.670
a huge piece of evidence because this is the day

823
00:54:59.090 --> 00:55:02.150
that they believe Lindsay actually threw in the towel on

824
00:55:04.329 --> 00:55:09.070
Her depression won that day. And so she was just

825
00:55:09.110 --> 00:55:11.670
going through the motions at that point for the kids.

826
00:55:12.750 --> 00:55:17.030
There is no doubt, I think amongst all people, that

827
00:55:17.110 --> 00:55:22.449
Lindsay loved her children. Everybody who testified said that there

828
00:55:22.489 --> 00:55:25.829
was no doubt or gave their deposition or whatever that

829
00:55:25.969 --> 00:55:28.860
she loved her children. But the thing here is that

830
00:55:28.909 --> 00:55:33.409
she wanted to die more. For a few days, investigators

831
00:55:33.449 --> 00:55:36.010
believed that she was fighting the urges to kill herself

832
00:55:36.389 --> 00:55:39.940
because the kids needed her. She wanted to die. She

833
00:55:39.980 --> 00:55:42.500
gave up on the 18th. She didn't care, but she

834
00:55:42.539 --> 00:55:45.360
had to be there for the kids. But on the 24th,

835
00:55:46.420 --> 00:55:49.440
that's when she was ready. She was ready to die.

836
00:55:50.179 --> 00:55:54.050
Patrick said in his interview that the day of the

837
00:55:54.090 --> 00:55:56.469
murder seemed to be one of the best days that

838
00:55:56.530 --> 00:56:00.500
Lindsay had had in a very long time. And In

839
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:02.820
my opinion, of course it would have been. She wasn't

840
00:56:02.889 --> 00:56:08.989
stressing anymore about life. She didn't have to. It's actually

841
00:56:09.030 --> 00:56:12.650
common that people who are suicidal and have made a

842
00:56:12.710 --> 00:56:16.070
plan in their head of what they want to do,

843
00:56:16.829 --> 00:56:21.159
that people say that they were having pretty good days.

844
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:26.539
It's because the pressure's gone. They've made the decision. There's

845
00:56:26.579 --> 00:56:29.230
no reason to be afraid anymore. They're going to end it.

846
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.519
She drove that day. Don't you remember that when she

847
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.260
kind of fell apart, at one point she had stopped

848
00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:40.280
driving because of her fear that something was going to

849
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:42.840
go wrong. Her mother was even driving her at one point.

850
00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:47.119
But that day, she got up and she drove Cora

851
00:56:47.139 --> 00:56:51.900
to the doctor by herself. When she got home, they played.

852
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.179
Callan went down for a nap. Of course things looked

853
00:56:55.219 --> 00:56:57.739
good because she knew that she wasn't going to be

854
00:56:57.820 --> 00:57:02.590
suffering much longer with her depression. And whenever she put

855
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.349
Callan down for his nap, that's when she started getting

856
00:57:06.389 --> 00:57:10.650
her whole plan together. Send Pat out for dinner. She

857
00:57:10.670 --> 00:57:13.429
was like, how long will that give me? She looked

858
00:57:13.469 --> 00:57:16.869
it up. That's why she looked at the maps. Not

859
00:57:16.909 --> 00:57:19.949
long enough. I think I'm going to need more time. Miralax.

860
00:57:20.090 --> 00:57:23.219
We need Miralax. I'm going to send him out for that.

861
00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:25.760
He won't suspect a thing. We'd already talked about the

862
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:29.159
fact that the doctor said she needed it. The moment...

863
00:57:29.329 --> 00:57:32.969
that he was out of the driveway. Her Apple data

864
00:57:33.010 --> 00:57:36.840
showed that she got to work. She left Cora and

865
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:40.480
baby Callan upstairs while grabbing Dawson by the arm and

866
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:44.000
leading him down the stairs into that basement. And he

867
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:47.449
was a fighter. She knew that he was gonna give

868
00:57:47.469 --> 00:57:49.949
her the most pushback. He was the most rambunctious one.

869
00:57:50.610 --> 00:57:54.489
So he would have to go first. Where are we going, mama?

870
00:57:55.530 --> 00:57:59.389
Just come on, I'll show you. Okay. Okay. So she

871
00:57:59.409 --> 00:58:03.099
brought him down, down those stairs. She brought him into

872
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.760
the office and she grabbed an exercise band before leading

873
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.619
him into his daddy's office and shutting the door behind her.

874
00:58:11.570 --> 00:58:14.530
That's when she forced him to the ground on his back,

875
00:58:14.570 --> 00:58:18.190
which took that baby by total surprise and it scared him.

876
00:58:18.849 --> 00:58:21.730
Why was his mommy, who loved him the most in

877
00:58:21.789 --> 00:58:25.059
the world, pushing him to the ground and now tying

878
00:58:25.099 --> 00:58:28.800
a cord around his neck. She had a wild look

879
00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:30.860
in her eyes and he could tell that she was

880
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:34.389
not playing with him. He could tell he knew it

881
00:58:34.949 --> 00:58:37.969
and he fought back as she was wrapping that cord

882
00:58:38.269 --> 00:58:41.630
around that child's neck. He pulled at it. He kicked.

883
00:58:41.869 --> 00:58:44.650
He bruised his own legs and his own arms in

884
00:58:44.670 --> 00:58:47.699
the process, but he was no match against the much

885
00:58:47.780 --> 00:58:51.920
bigger and much stronger Lindsay. She tied that band in

886
00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:54.900
a single knot around his neck and she began to

887
00:58:54.980 --> 00:58:59.170
pull with all of her strength. And Dawson kicked. He

888
00:58:59.289 --> 00:59:02.389
tried to cry, but he couldn't because the blood and

889
00:59:02.429 --> 00:59:06.429
the pressure in his face was so great. His eyes

890
00:59:06.610 --> 00:59:09.969
opened up wide as he looked at his mama, terrified.

891
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:13.980
but he couldn't make a sound. He could not cry out.

892
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:17.730
His face turned purple as he tried to get away

893
00:59:18.010 --> 00:59:20.650
and he fought to loosen that band and it did

894
00:59:20.710 --> 00:59:23.710
for just a bit as he fought so hard, but

895
00:59:23.750 --> 00:59:27.659
that's when she repositioned herself and she squeezed even harder.

896
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:32.010
The blood vessels in his eyes began to burst as

897
00:59:32.050 --> 00:59:35.329
his lips turned blue and his face turned purple as

898
00:59:35.489 --> 00:59:38.989
a grape. But Lindsay held that pressure until he finally

899
00:59:39.289 --> 00:59:43.489
lost consciousness. But that wasn't enough. She wasn't done yet.

900
00:59:43.989 --> 00:59:46.650
She wasn't trying to make him unconscious. She wanted him

901
00:59:46.929 --> 00:59:51.139
to die. So she grabbed again on that band, repositioned

902
00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:53.840
and made sure that her grip was tight. kept it

903
00:59:53.900 --> 00:59:58.159
around his neck, and she squeezed that tiny little firefighter's

904
00:59:58.260 --> 01:00:01.639
neck for two to three more minutes to ensure that

905
01:00:02.340 --> 01:00:08.110
he was dead. And when she finally let go, Dawson

906
01:00:08.130 --> 01:00:13.070
was completely still. His chest wasn't rising, and she knew

907
01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:17.840
that she had completed the job. She got up, and

908
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:20.559
she went to go grab the next child. And the

909
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:26.039
next child would be Cora. a gentle, pretty princess who

910
01:00:26.219 --> 01:00:28.960
always wanted to make her mama proud. And she was

911
01:00:29.019 --> 01:00:31.800
up there watching Callan like the good big sister that

912
01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:36.179
she was. Lindsay knew that she would not resist like

913
01:00:36.219 --> 01:00:41.099
the rambunctious Dawson did. And she couldn't risk Cora coming

914
01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:46.460
downstairs and finding Dawson. And she couldn't risk Cora possibly

915
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:50.110
seeing her strangle the baby. And that is why Cora

916
01:00:50.530 --> 01:00:53.590
went second. Her phone data showed her climbing the stairs

917
01:00:53.889 --> 01:00:56.070
and then descending. Cora, come on, I need to show

918
01:00:56.090 --> 01:00:59.210
you something. So she took her by the hand and

919
01:00:59.250 --> 01:01:01.889
down the steps they went. But the door to the

920
01:01:01.929 --> 01:01:06.260
daddy's office was closed. So Cora didn't see what had

921
01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:09.199
happened to her baby brother just on the other side

922
01:01:09.219 --> 01:01:12.320
of that door. She was led to the opposite side

923
01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:15.940
of the basement. But Lindsay made some tactical changes at

924
01:01:15.980 --> 01:01:20.119
this time. Face up. was too hard to manage because

925
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.760
Dawson was able to use his arms and use his legs,

926
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:27.599
and that made it harder to strangle. So she made

927
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:32.250
a change, and this time she forced Cora down on

928
01:01:32.269 --> 01:01:35.070
the ground, but she had to go face first. And

929
01:01:35.150 --> 01:01:38.349
this pushing Cora down face first jolted her, and it

930
01:01:38.429 --> 01:01:41.489
scared her. Her eyes got wide, but she couldn't tell

931
01:01:41.550 --> 01:01:44.409
what was happening due to her mother's weight holding her

932
01:01:44.429 --> 01:01:47.929
down to the carpet. Mama! She tried to scream out,

933
01:01:48.539 --> 01:01:50.800
and figure out what was going on, but by then,

934
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:54.559
an exercise band was wrapped around and looped around her neck.

935
01:01:55.239 --> 01:01:58.440
Cora's natural instinct to survive kicked in, and she began

936
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.780
to thrash, trying to get away, her skin burning itself

937
01:02:01.820 --> 01:02:05.079
against the carpet as she struggled, but she couldn't get away.

938
01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:09.079
And then the tightening, it was horrifying, and she didn't

939
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:13.309
know what to do. She was a princess. And fighting

940
01:02:13.590 --> 01:02:16.630
wasn't anything that she had ever done before. And real

941
01:02:16.730 --> 01:02:19.389
bad guys weren't something that she had ever encountered before.

942
01:02:19.659 --> 01:02:24.719
And this was her mama. She was more than trying

943
01:02:24.739 --> 01:02:28.099
to move. And the more that she moved, the less

944
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:32.070
she could breathe. She couldn't even choke as her face

945
01:02:32.130 --> 01:02:35.750
turned red and into a deep purple. And the pressure

946
01:02:35.789 --> 01:02:38.989
was so great. that the vessels began to pop, and

947
01:02:39.050 --> 01:02:41.289
it felt like her eyes were going to explode out

948
01:02:41.309 --> 01:02:44.550
of her head. Her arms were useless. She could not

949
01:02:44.610 --> 01:02:48.159
do anything with them. And then she started to become disoriented.

950
01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:52.880
Her fighting strength became exhausted before she finally just lost consciousness.

951
01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:57.380
And Lindsay repositioned, tightened that band as hard as she could,

952
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.099
and she held on to Cora's throat for another two

953
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:05.260
to three minutes, just like she did Dawson, until she

954
01:03:05.300 --> 01:03:09.969
was dead. But as she did this, came a huge shock.

955
01:03:10.989 --> 01:03:13.769
Her cell phone started to ring, but she couldn't answer

956
01:03:13.809 --> 01:03:15.750
it because she would have to let go and the

957
01:03:15.809 --> 01:03:17.869
job wasn't done. I'm almost done. I got to call

958
01:03:17.889 --> 01:03:22.130
him back. Come on. Once Cora was dead, she let go.

959
01:03:22.469 --> 01:03:25.309
Cora didn't move and she looked at her and saw

960
01:03:25.329 --> 01:03:27.550
that the blood was coming out of her nose. The

961
01:03:27.590 --> 01:03:30.550
child was the wrong color. She knew that her baby

962
01:03:30.590 --> 01:03:34.260
was dead. So Lindsay quickly grabbed her phone and she

963
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:37.260
called Patrick back. It only took her another 39 seconds

964
01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:39.409
to be able to make that call. What the hell

965
01:03:39.429 --> 01:03:41.510
does he want? I told him exactly where to go.

966
01:03:41.570 --> 01:03:43.510
I told him what to get. Why is he calling me?

967
01:03:43.550 --> 01:03:45.289
I know they have it in stock. I checked before

968
01:03:45.329 --> 01:03:49.150
I called. But when Patrick answered, he said, hey, I

969
01:03:49.190 --> 01:03:51.630
just want to make sure you do want this off-brand, right?

970
01:03:52.329 --> 01:03:54.289
And she said, yes. Yeah, go ahead and get that.

971
01:03:54.329 --> 01:03:57.530
That's fine. Because Lindsay was the nurse of the family.

972
01:03:58.530 --> 01:04:00.659
He didn't want to get the wrong thing. That was

973
01:04:00.699 --> 01:04:03.269
why he called back. She did not expect that to happen.

974
01:04:03.710 --> 01:04:05.050
While she didn't want to call him back in the

975
01:04:05.090 --> 01:04:08.889
first place, she had to, though, because if she didn't answer,

976
01:04:09.429 --> 01:04:11.849
then she risked the chance that he might worry and

977
01:04:11.869 --> 01:04:13.949
he might speed up or he might come home before

978
01:04:14.190 --> 01:04:15.940
he went to go and get the food. And she

979
01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:19.059
needed more time. She wasn't done yet. So she called back.

980
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:21.840
That's why they talked for the 14 seconds. He thought

981
01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:24.900
that she sounded calm, but she was busy. Patrick's figuring

982
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:27.659
that she's bathing the kids or something. And so they confirm.

983
01:04:27.699 --> 01:04:29.860
He says, OK, baby, I love you. And they hang up.

984
01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:35.739
So while Patrick's checking out, Lindsay's grabbing their last child

985
01:04:35.780 --> 01:04:39.739
to kill. She pulled Callan from his crib, and little

986
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:45.110
man just grinned. Mama's got me. He couldn't speak in

987
01:04:45.150 --> 01:04:49.150
that moment, but that baby knew that he felt love.

988
01:04:49.769 --> 01:04:53.530
When he saw the face and the smell of his mama,

989
01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:56.920
that was all that was required for that toothless grin

990
01:04:56.960 --> 01:04:59.800
and those dimples to appear. His mama picked him up.

991
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:03.280
And she walked down in the basement with him. And

992
01:05:03.300 --> 01:05:05.860
there he saw his sister on the ground, but he's

993
01:05:05.900 --> 01:05:08.980
just a baby. He didn't understand. Lindsay put him face

994
01:05:09.019 --> 01:05:11.719
down on his tummy, still in his red little onesie.

995
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:13.949
And naturally, when he was there, he tried to pick

996
01:05:14.010 --> 01:05:16.739
up his little head and look around to see what's happening,

997
01:05:16.949 --> 01:05:20.010
having no clue the mortal danger that he was in.

998
01:05:20.329 --> 01:05:22.710
He was just a little fella on the floor next

999
01:05:22.730 --> 01:05:26.170
to his protective big sister. But Cora wouldn't be able

1000
01:05:26.210 --> 01:05:28.369
to protect that baby she loved so much because she

1001
01:05:28.409 --> 01:05:34.119
was already gone. And Dawson was too. That firefighter, that hero,

1002
01:05:35.179 --> 01:05:39.219
that tough guy. He could not help because he was

1003
01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:43.340
behind the closed door in the other room. As soon

1004
01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:46.539
as he raised that head, that baby fine hair coming

1005
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:49.980
up into the air, Lindsay wrapped that third exercise band

1006
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.639
around his neck. And at first, the cold rubber around

1007
01:05:52.679 --> 01:05:55.179
his neck tickled a little bit. But very soon after,

1008
01:05:55.800 --> 01:06:00.960
he couldn't breathe. But he was defenseless. He was an innocent.

1009
01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:07.469
He had just mastered holding a bottle. Survival wasn't anything

1010
01:06:07.889 --> 01:06:13.150
he knew about. Fighting, death, none of that even occurred

1011
01:06:13.190 --> 01:06:16.800
to this baby. He had no experience. He's like a fawn,

1012
01:06:16.820 --> 01:06:22.010
a brand new baby that doesn't know of these horrors. Now,

1013
01:06:22.030 --> 01:06:25.170
his instincts, they were there, of course, though. And as

1014
01:06:25.210 --> 01:06:28.110
that discomfort grew in him, he tried to cry out

1015
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:30.659
the only thing he knew how to do. But there

1016
01:06:30.699 --> 01:06:34.159
was no sound. He had no air. The blood was

1017
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.920
now stuck in his head. And all he could do

1018
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:39.960
was kick out those little feet in that onesie and

1019
01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:44.619
wave those little hands. The most vulnerable and the easiest

1020
01:06:44.949 --> 01:06:49.920
to kill. And she squeezed and she squeezed and she

1021
01:06:49.980 --> 01:06:52.320
squeezed for a couple more minutes to ensure that he

1022
01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:56.239
was dead. And when she finally let go, Callan never moved.

1023
01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:59.639
He never made a sound because she believed that he

1024
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:03.360
was dead. She got up at that point, leaving her

1025
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:06.539
children right there on the floor where they lay, exercise

1026
01:07:06.579 --> 01:07:09.280
bands still tied around their neck. And she moved on

1027
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.139
to step number two. And that was her suicide plan.

1028
01:07:13.420 --> 01:07:15.860
Using the lemonade in a cup on her nightstand from

1029
01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:18.500
the night before, Lindsay crushed up a bunch of pills

1030
01:07:18.980 --> 01:07:21.320
or she had either previously crushed them up, that I

1031
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:23.699
can't tell you, but she poured them into that cup,

1032
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:28.610
mixed it, and she chugged it. But the effects weren't instant.

1033
01:07:29.769 --> 01:07:32.670
I can't help but notice in this moment that overdose

1034
01:07:33.130 --> 01:07:36.449
was a much more humane way of offing herself compared

1035
01:07:36.489 --> 01:07:41.110
to what she chose to put those children through. But

1036
01:07:41.130 --> 01:07:43.429
when the effects were taken too long, she went down

1037
01:07:43.469 --> 01:07:45.820
to the kitchen and she grabbed a large knife And

1038
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:49.579
then she ran back upstairs to that master bedroom. There

1039
01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:52.119
she started trying to cut her neck and she tried

1040
01:07:52.139 --> 01:07:55.000
to cut her wrists. But her instincts to not do

1041
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.739
it continued to fight her. The natural instinct to not

1042
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:03.360
kill yourself. Her brain was wanting it. Her body was

1043
01:08:03.429 --> 01:08:07.289
fighting her. Drinking something is easy, y'all. There's no pain.

1044
01:08:07.610 --> 01:08:11.050
But cutting yourself, that's harder to do because it hurts.

1045
01:08:12.159 --> 01:08:14.239
She attempted a few cuts on the neck and on

1046
01:08:14.260 --> 01:08:17.399
the wrist, but they were more superficial and nowhere near

1047
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:19.619
enough to cut an artery or something that would just

1048
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:21.720
bleed her out quickly. She was going to have to

1049
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:24.369
commit to deeper cuts if this was going to work.

1050
01:08:25.289 --> 01:08:27.390
At this point, she's starting to worry that Patrick was

1051
01:08:27.409 --> 01:08:29.909
going to be back soon. So she had those cuts,

1052
01:08:30.189 --> 01:08:32.010
but she went over and she knew she had to

1053
01:08:32.050 --> 01:08:34.949
hurry and that she may need to delay any chance

1054
01:08:34.989 --> 01:08:37.100
of coming in. So she went and locked the bedroom

1055
01:08:37.149 --> 01:08:40.279
door so that nobody could stop her if they were

1056
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:42.970
to come in. She was going to complete this mission.

1057
01:08:43.689 --> 01:08:46.609
Using that same knife, she tried again. And this time

1058
01:08:46.670 --> 01:08:49.569
she did get enough depth through the skin to start

1059
01:08:49.630 --> 01:08:53.090
causing the bleeding. And a good bit. Okay, good. It's working.

1060
01:08:53.149 --> 01:08:56.029
Come on. So she stood there and she watched the

1061
01:08:56.090 --> 01:08:58.710
blood dropping out of her body at the foot of

1062
01:08:58.729 --> 01:09:01.619
the bed before music. moving over closer to the nightstand.

1063
01:09:01.979 --> 01:09:05.819
And that blood was continuing to drip, but Lindsay wasn't dying.

1064
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:08.800
It wasn't working like she imagined that it would work

1065
01:09:09.100 --> 01:09:11.760
in her head. And that's when she looked at the window.

1066
01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:15.060
Time was running out. She had to get it done.

1067
01:09:15.779 --> 01:09:18.130
So when she looked up at that window, she thought,

1068
01:09:18.149 --> 01:09:20.350
I just, I'm going to have to jump. So she

1069
01:09:20.430 --> 01:09:22.649
pulled the bed away from the wall. She grabbed the

1070
01:09:22.689 --> 01:09:26.409
window and she pulled it open, allowing that cool air

1071
01:09:26.750 --> 01:09:30.090
to start pouring in. It was dark outside. That wind

1072
01:09:30.109 --> 01:09:32.029
was blowing, but it was just like she felt on

1073
01:09:32.060 --> 01:09:36.600
the inside, dark. She rested her hands on that windowsill

1074
01:09:37.060 --> 01:09:40.380
and she looked below, clear shot to the ground. She

1075
01:09:40.420 --> 01:09:42.960
managed to get herself up and out of the window

1076
01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:45.699
and then plummeted to the ground where on impact, she

1077
01:09:45.739 --> 01:09:50.260
basically broke her neck and she was paralyzed. While her

1078
01:09:50.399 --> 01:09:55.689
injuries and depression were well documented and they were terrible,

1079
01:09:57.010 --> 01:10:05.449
Lindsay's explanation for what had happened after she's investigated, questioned

1080
01:10:05.470 --> 01:10:08.659
and all of that, was that it was basically out

1081
01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:14.399
of her control. The medications that she was taking had

1082
01:10:14.439 --> 01:10:17.020
basically had these crazy side effects and they had driven

1083
01:10:17.079 --> 01:10:21.039
her into a postpartum psychosis. Basically, she was saying she

1084
01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:23.100
was not in her right mind and she had lost

1085
01:10:23.140 --> 01:10:26.979
control of what she did that night. Now, while this

1086
01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:32.189
continues to be a matter of massive debate, the state's

1087
01:10:32.250 --> 01:10:36.949
position is this. It's more directed at the date of

1088
01:10:37.010 --> 01:10:42.529
the murders themselves, not necessarily everything leading up to them,

1089
01:10:42.909 --> 01:10:47.189
but with an explanation. Overall, as the state saw it,

1090
01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:52.180
Lindsay wasn't taking a majority of her medication. They know

1091
01:10:52.220 --> 01:10:54.359
that because, and I'll put the list on Patreon so

1092
01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:55.899
you can look at it to see what I'm saying.

1093
01:10:56.300 --> 01:10:59.140
She did not take a lot of the medicine. She

1094
01:10:59.180 --> 01:11:02.710
didn't take most of the medicine. And she certainly wasn't

1095
01:11:02.770 --> 01:11:06.289
taking it as directed. Even Dr. Tufts and the other

1096
01:11:06.329 --> 01:11:08.770
providers said, you have to take this enough to have

1097
01:11:08.789 --> 01:11:11.649
therapeutic levels. She never took enough of any of the

1098
01:11:11.670 --> 01:11:16.590
medications for that to happen. The exhaustive list of medications,

1099
01:11:16.829 --> 01:11:20.149
when you look at them, may look wild, but when

1100
01:11:20.189 --> 01:11:23.949
you look at how and why and when they were prescribed,

1101
01:11:24.220 --> 01:11:28.439
it puts it into more perspective. Also, again, actually taking

1102
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:31.319
them matters. You can fill every medication in the world,

1103
01:11:31.340 --> 01:11:33.659
but if you never took them, how are you going

1104
01:11:33.689 --> 01:11:38.010
to blame them? She was also... offered through all of

1105
01:11:38.069 --> 01:11:40.729
the history that they investigated through her records and everything.

1106
01:11:41.029 --> 01:11:47.310
She was offered multiple opportunities, services, programs outside of medication

1107
01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:53.180
options of which in every instance she declined at the

1108
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:55.800
immediate moment that they were being offered to her or

1109
01:11:55.880 --> 01:12:00.180
suggested to her. And there's a lot. But I simply

1110
01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:03.109
cannot go into all of the detail and actually finish

1111
01:12:03.130 --> 01:12:07.829
this episode today. But They offered these services, and on

1112
01:12:07.850 --> 01:12:11.350
the face of it, she usually said no. One of

1113
01:12:11.369 --> 01:12:14.489
the services offered, she did go to, but it was

1114
01:12:14.529 --> 01:12:16.989
like months later. It wasn't when they were saying, you

1115
01:12:17.069 --> 01:12:22.989
really need to go and do this. Lindsay also, we've

1116
01:12:23.010 --> 01:12:27.529
got to focus on her actions the day of the murder, okay?

1117
01:12:27.569 --> 01:12:29.510
And this is what investigators in the state took main

1118
01:12:29.569 --> 01:12:33.529
issue with. If psychosis is her argument, we have to

1119
01:12:33.550 --> 01:12:37.310
look at what psychosis is. And overall, psychosis is not

1120
01:12:37.390 --> 01:12:43.529
a quick onset, quick offset type of thing. Postpartum psychosis

1121
01:12:44.250 --> 01:12:49.840
is usually treated and overcome or happens in an average,

1122
01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:51.859
and I'm giving an extension here based on everything that

1123
01:12:51.899 --> 01:12:55.560
was presented, on an average of four to five months postpartum.

1124
01:12:57.199 --> 01:12:59.850
Callan was eight months old, so she was outside of

1125
01:12:59.890 --> 01:13:01.529
that window. I know you're going to say, well, things

1126
01:13:01.550 --> 01:13:03.810
can fluctuate. Of course, I'm not that rigid, but I'm

1127
01:13:03.850 --> 01:13:07.729
just giving you the perspective here. And people with psychosis

1128
01:13:08.609 --> 01:13:14.210
do not normally follow commands of voices that they hear

1129
01:13:14.810 --> 01:13:17.369
the very first time. That they hear them. And right

1130
01:13:17.409 --> 01:13:19.210
now you're going, wait, I don't remember her saying anything

1131
01:13:19.270 --> 01:13:22.609
about hearing voices. And you would be correct. Lindsay never

1132
01:13:22.729 --> 01:13:26.989
told any providers that she was hearing voices. Not one.

1133
01:13:27.850 --> 01:13:31.220
Not one. It is not documented in any of her

1134
01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:36.600
medical records. But Lindsay said now that she heard a

1135
01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:40.420
voice telling her to do it. But she only revealed

1136
01:13:40.460 --> 01:13:45.270
this after she killed the children. And she never told

1137
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:48.369
anyone else. since she said that she heard a voice

1138
01:13:48.890 --> 01:13:54.279
that she's heard any more voices. Experts agree pretty much

1139
01:13:54.300 --> 01:13:58.560
across the board that that's not how that works. Voices

1140
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:04.279
take time and people try to ignore them over time

1141
01:14:04.680 --> 01:14:10.970
before the psychosis takes over. There's not many, if any,

1142
01:14:11.369 --> 01:14:14.729
documented at least cases of someone hearing a voice one

1143
01:14:14.770 --> 01:14:17.430
time right then and doing exactly what it told them

1144
01:14:17.449 --> 01:14:19.270
to do, the confusion of what is this voice? What

1145
01:14:19.289 --> 01:14:21.489
am I hearing? Would throw you off to begin with.

1146
01:14:23.409 --> 01:14:27.300
So the state felt like Lindsay killed the children because

1147
01:14:27.340 --> 01:14:29.899
she wanted to kill herself, but they were the only

1148
01:14:29.939 --> 01:14:33.220
thing keeping her from doing so. And if they were dead,

1149
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:37.760
then she could die. That is the overall belief of

1150
01:14:37.800 --> 01:14:40.779
the state. So I'm going to ask you, what do

1151
01:14:40.819 --> 01:14:44.439
you think? Please send me the comments. Send me the messages.

1152
01:14:44.460 --> 01:14:47.800
I love discussion. Because I'm going to tell you what

1153
01:14:47.859 --> 01:14:51.760
I think. And remember, we're all friends here. And this

1154
01:14:51.819 --> 01:14:55.979
is just my opinion. I think that people are in

1155
01:14:56.140 --> 01:15:01.399
such an uproar because they're finding themselves on either side

1156
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:07.050
of a moral dilemma. Killing your kids is wrong and

1157
01:15:07.090 --> 01:15:13.199
it's immoral. Seeking treatment is And being given lots of medication,

1158
01:15:13.239 --> 01:15:17.939
which is well documented, and still killing your children despite

1159
01:15:18.180 --> 01:15:22.810
all of that looks like a health care failure. And

1160
01:15:23.109 --> 01:15:27.789
if that's the case, then the other side of the coin,

1161
01:15:27.890 --> 01:15:32.010
people are arguing that Lindsay was failed. Women deserve better

1162
01:15:32.050 --> 01:15:36.380
postpartum care, and failure to provide this is immoral considering

1163
01:15:36.699 --> 01:15:39.520
how many women suffer after birth with a wide variety

1164
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:43.649
of emotional issues. and mental issues. And when we look

1165
01:15:43.689 --> 01:15:46.489
at it through the morality frame and we're looking at

1166
01:15:46.569 --> 01:15:52.569
two different viewpoints, how do you argue morality? How do

1167
01:15:52.630 --> 01:15:55.810
you say one moral is better than the other moral

1168
01:15:55.850 --> 01:15:59.529
when I think both of those arguments are pretty damn valid?

1169
01:16:00.930 --> 01:16:05.340
People should get better healthcare and we shouldn't kill our kids, okay?

1170
01:16:05.380 --> 01:16:08.680
To that point, I agree with both people. But as

1171
01:16:08.699 --> 01:16:12.229
you know, I'm not someone who rides the fence. Not me.

1172
01:16:12.350 --> 01:16:16.609
I wasn't built that way. So the way I'm viewing

1173
01:16:16.649 --> 01:16:21.170
this is that I'm not seeing that morality is what

1174
01:16:21.210 --> 01:16:24.010
was on trial. That's what's being argued in the court

1175
01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:28.550
of public opinion. But if you watched the trial, that

1176
01:16:28.750 --> 01:16:34.100
moral argument is not what was on trial. It's criminal

1177
01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:39.479
responsibility for what Lindsay did. There is no doubt Lindsay

1178
01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:43.020
was suffering. There is no doubt in my mind that

1179
01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.659
she was trying to get help. But there's also no

1180
01:16:45.739 --> 01:16:49.819
doubt that she killed her kids. She told an FBI

1181
01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:54.069
investigator not only what she did, but how she did it.

1182
01:16:55.170 --> 01:16:58.970
So for the people that truly believe that she didn't

1183
01:16:59.010 --> 01:17:02.569
kill the kids, I find that to be kind of wild.

1184
01:17:03.890 --> 01:17:07.350
If you watch every minute of every moment of the testimony,

1185
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:10.479
All of these people that she told what she did

1186
01:17:10.539 --> 01:17:15.460
and how she did it, are they lying? Or are

1187
01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:21.739
we supposed to just not believe Lindsay? Also, if she

1188
01:17:21.779 --> 01:17:26.069
didn't do it, why the hell would her own defense

1189
01:17:26.130 --> 01:17:31.010
attorney stipulate at the very beginning of the trial that

1190
01:17:31.050 --> 01:17:36.930
his client did in fact kill the children? You have

1191
01:17:36.989 --> 01:17:39.810
to really think about that. Take a motion out of it.

1192
01:17:40.520 --> 01:17:45.329
Think about that. If you didn't do something, wouldn't your

1193
01:17:45.369 --> 01:17:49.510
defense attorney want to bring that up? But they didn't.

1194
01:17:49.670 --> 01:17:54.149
From the jump, they said, yep, she did it. I

1195
01:17:54.189 --> 01:17:56.630
think that another issue here is we have to work

1196
01:17:56.649 --> 01:18:02.380
within the rules of the trial. People are inserting all

1197
01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:05.079
of these theories and all of these what ifs. But

1198
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:06.960
you have to go off of the testimony. So if

1199
01:18:06.979 --> 01:18:10.210
you're going to be a true evaluator of true crime

1200
01:18:10.489 --> 01:18:13.829
in cases that happen, you have an obligation that you

1201
01:18:13.869 --> 01:18:17.149
can't go outside of the testimony that is provided to you.

1202
01:18:18.310 --> 01:18:21.430
If that's the case, then you're just believing what you

1203
01:18:21.449 --> 01:18:25.340
want to believe. You have to stay in the lane

1204
01:18:25.899 --> 01:18:28.199
of the testimony. And that's hard to do. I know.

1205
01:18:28.579 --> 01:18:32.640
But you have to. If not, you shouldn't be a juror.

1206
01:18:33.460 --> 01:18:37.979
Those are the rules. So it's not if she killed

1207
01:18:38.020 --> 01:18:43.449
the kids that was on trial. It's what caused her

1208
01:18:43.470 --> 01:18:46.409
to kill the kids. And based on all of the

1209
01:18:46.470 --> 01:18:52.260
doctor's notes and all of the testimony, their adding and

1210
01:18:52.859 --> 01:18:58.279
taking away of medication was on par with traditional standards.

1211
01:18:59.939 --> 01:19:01.829
If you actually follow it, if you don't just look

1212
01:19:01.850 --> 01:19:04.770
at a blank document or a document full of just

1213
01:19:04.989 --> 01:19:07.710
listed medications, if you like, I made a timeline, I

1214
01:19:07.750 --> 01:19:10.560
put painful amounts of effort into this. to try to

1215
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:15.260
really understand it. They didn't throw a thousand medications at Lindsay.

1216
01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:20.439
They were titrating some, but they were also getting rid

1217
01:19:20.579 --> 01:19:22.119
of a lot of them or throwing some of them

1218
01:19:22.199 --> 01:19:25.420
out altogether. Just because she filled it didn't mean that

1219
01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:28.619
they intended for her to take it. Not to mention,

1220
01:19:29.470 --> 01:19:32.149
Lindsay never followed the instructions or the advice of the

1221
01:19:32.210 --> 01:19:36.689
medical providers anyway, because tons of the medication was not

1222
01:19:36.750 --> 01:19:42.949
recovered or taken. I personally do think that Lindsay was

1223
01:19:43.090 --> 01:19:48.029
minimizing her level of suicidality when she was talking to

1224
01:19:48.069 --> 01:19:51.329
her providers because I truly believe that she did not

1225
01:19:51.409 --> 01:19:53.829
want her children to be taken away from her. And

1226
01:19:53.869 --> 01:19:56.310
if she did tell the full truth, I think in

1227
01:19:56.350 --> 01:19:59.289
her mind, she feared that someone would take her children.

1228
01:20:00.210 --> 01:20:01.789
I do think that. I think that she was much

1229
01:20:01.880 --> 01:20:04.260
more suicidal than she led on to. I think that

1230
01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:07.119
she tried to make her people in her family feel

1231
01:20:07.199 --> 01:20:12.130
better Because she didn't want them to know the truth.

1232
01:20:15.350 --> 01:20:18.750
And if she told the full truth to the providers,

1233
01:20:20.069 --> 01:20:22.300
she was a nurse, guys. She knew that if she

1234
01:20:22.350 --> 01:20:25.560
told the full truth, she may have been put impatient

1235
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:29.600
against her own will. She wanted to be with her kids.

1236
01:20:30.020 --> 01:20:32.020
I know that sounds crazy because she killed them. But

1237
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:35.090
she ultimately, she did want to be with her kids.

1238
01:20:35.550 --> 01:20:38.109
She wanted to feel normal. but she was not willing

1239
01:20:38.149 --> 01:20:41.529
to follow the plan that was provided to her by

1240
01:20:41.569 --> 01:20:48.479
the experts to feel normal. She wanted instantaneous change. Her

1241
01:20:48.609 --> 01:20:52.060
own family, her sister, by the way, is a social worker,

1242
01:20:52.159 --> 01:20:55.779
a licensed clinical social worker. She spoke to her sister.

1243
01:20:56.220 --> 01:20:58.579
She was in constant contact with her mother. Her own

1244
01:20:58.739 --> 01:21:02.159
family never felt that she was a danger to herself

1245
01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:05.970
or others. They just thought that she was depressed. And

1246
01:21:06.010 --> 01:21:09.970
you can't blame them if she wasn't telling the full truth.

1247
01:21:10.310 --> 01:21:12.149
I get why she wouldn't have told the full truth

1248
01:21:12.189 --> 01:21:14.590
because she didn't want to lose her children. But that

1249
01:21:15.850 --> 01:21:20.970
in and of itself shows that the that there's an

1250
01:21:21.069 --> 01:21:23.800
issue here. Failure to be completely honest and open with

1251
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:27.420
a provider and then actively going against their medical advice

1252
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:31.539
is not a failure of the system. That's a personal choice.

1253
01:21:33.159 --> 01:21:35.760
And the reason that I think, and this is an opinion,

1254
01:21:36.420 --> 01:21:39.500
that Lindsay killed her kids is I think it's very

1255
01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:45.710
much in line with an altruistic murder-suicide event. I think

1256
01:21:45.750 --> 01:21:48.270
she made up her mind on January the 18th that

1257
01:21:48.350 --> 01:21:50.930
she was done with life. That's why she stopped journaling

1258
01:21:50.970 --> 01:21:53.930
or caring about any of the medications or anything. But

1259
01:21:53.989 --> 01:21:56.750
it took her a few days to build up the

1260
01:21:56.810 --> 01:21:59.760
nerve to do it. And the 24th was the day

1261
01:21:59.810 --> 01:22:04.500
that she was ready to die. Altruistic killings are done

1262
01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:10.279
out of a believed love. Key point here, believed. You

1263
01:22:10.300 --> 01:22:12.840
got to understand what I'm saying here. You don't kill

1264
01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:18.279
people you love. That's Deadass obvious, okay? But in her mind,

1265
01:22:19.359 --> 01:22:22.680
it's what the killer believed was the right thing to do.

1266
01:22:23.140 --> 01:22:27.079
She did not want her children to be without their mother,

1267
01:22:27.939 --> 01:22:31.039
but she also knew that she couldn't kill herself so

1268
01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.920
long as they were there. They were keeping her there.

1269
01:22:35.239 --> 01:22:38.220
Either way, however you want to look at this, she

1270
01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:43.319
chose to kill her children out of a selfish need

1271
01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:49.520
to die. It is sad that she was suicidal. I

1272
01:22:49.579 --> 01:22:52.699
am not minimizing that. But if she wanted to die,

1273
01:22:53.050 --> 01:22:55.529
she should have just left the kids motherless that day.

1274
01:22:56.670 --> 01:22:59.970
They would have survived. They would have made it through

1275
01:23:00.409 --> 01:23:05.109
and they would have lived their lives. That's a fact.

1276
01:23:06.909 --> 01:23:09.329
This case is not one that I took lightly. I

1277
01:23:10.800 --> 01:23:14.460
know that I am bold and that I say things

1278
01:23:14.520 --> 01:23:16.649
and I say what I mean But I don't say

1279
01:23:16.659 --> 01:23:20.670
it lightly. I put a lot into these episodes, and

1280
01:23:20.729 --> 01:23:24.170
I hope that my coverage has given you insight to

1281
01:23:24.210 --> 01:23:30.729
the totality of the circumstances. Lindsay Clancy was ultimately charged

1282
01:23:30.789 --> 01:23:33.449
in the murders of her three children, and she did

1283
01:23:33.770 --> 01:23:38.189
go on trial. And in 2026, after nearly six weeks

1284
01:23:38.369 --> 01:23:42.710
of trial, her case ended in a hung jury. So

1285
01:23:42.750 --> 01:23:48.510
for now, we wait. We shake our heads and we

1286
01:23:48.609 --> 01:23:52.750
all wait. Will she be tried again? Will they offer

1287
01:23:52.770 --> 01:23:55.789
her a deal or will they just let it go?

1288
01:23:56.890 --> 01:24:01.899
Only time will tell. But as for the real victims

1289
01:24:01.939 --> 01:24:10.920
in this case, Cora, Dawson, and Callan, their fates are sealed.

1290
01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:16.300
They are gone. They are dead and they will never return.

1291
01:24:17.050 --> 01:24:20.149
grow up. Lindsay may be given another day in court,

1292
01:24:20.729 --> 01:24:24.289
but the kids will never have another day on earth.

1293
01:24:25.430 --> 01:24:29.220
Lindsay may be offered a plea deal, but don't forget

1294
01:24:29.229 --> 01:24:31.979
that those kids pled for their lives in the only

1295
01:24:32.039 --> 01:24:37.199
way they knew how, and they were denied. The manner

1296
01:24:37.220 --> 01:24:39.859
in which those children died is something that I will

1297
01:24:39.979 --> 01:24:45.399
never get over. And in Massachusetts, to prove criminal responsibility,

1298
01:24:45.439 --> 01:24:49.779
there's two things here. Number one, the killer has to

1299
01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:54.119
appreciate the wrongfulness or criminality of their conduct, meaning they

1300
01:24:54.140 --> 01:24:57.710
have to understand it. And number two, they have to

1301
01:24:57.729 --> 01:25:01.489
conform their conduct to the requirements of the law, meaning

1302
01:25:01.510 --> 01:25:07.869
they've changed something they've done so that they can basically

1303
01:25:08.390 --> 01:25:11.880
get away with what they're doing. Lindsay knew what she

1304
01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:16.100
was doing was wrong. Hiding homicidal thoughts to not lose

1305
01:25:16.119 --> 01:25:21.569
your kid's shows thinking your way out of something. It

1306
01:25:21.609 --> 01:25:25.550
shows control of your mind. Sending your husband off on

1307
01:25:25.590 --> 01:25:29.590
an errand with a timeframe you look up shows planning.

1308
01:25:30.630 --> 01:25:33.989
Locking the doors to not be able to be stopped

1309
01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:39.539
if you're interrupted in some way shows tactics. And choosing

1310
01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:44.729
the order of killing the children isn't blindly killing. like

1311
01:25:44.770 --> 01:25:47.010
a voice told you to just do this. It had

1312
01:25:47.130 --> 01:25:52.199
purpose and it was tactical. Never mentioning hearing voices until

1313
01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:56.300
after you were under arrest and then never hearing them

1314
01:25:56.479 --> 01:25:59.939
ever again, not only goes against the science, but it

1315
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:04.350
sounds like conforming your story to avoid penalty as is

1316
01:26:04.430 --> 01:26:08.310
set forth by the requirements of law. It doesn't mean

1317
01:26:08.329 --> 01:26:11.109
you didn't love your children, but it does mean you're

1318
01:26:11.130 --> 01:26:14.500
trying to save your own ass. And with all of

1319
01:26:14.539 --> 01:26:19.340
this in mind, please remember the Clancy children, the real

1320
01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:23.729
victims in all of this. They are the only people

1321
01:26:24.310 --> 01:26:29.710
who suffered the finality of the consequences of a suicidal person.

1322
01:26:31.350 --> 01:26:34.170
And with that in mind, I guess I will leave

1323
01:26:34.210 --> 01:26:37.569
it up to you to decide if the jury should

1324
01:26:37.600 --> 01:26:40.680
be the only participants in this case who were hung.