June 24, 2025

Part Two | Did She Do it: The Investigation Into Karen Read

Part Two | Did She Do it: The Investigation Into Karen Read
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Season 7
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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended

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for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's

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kJ You're back for another episode of Unspeakable? Are you

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ready for part two of this Karen Reid saga? Are

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you ready? Well? Before I get into it, I need

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to remind you of a few things. Listen. Local people

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have messaged me about my merch. I'm wearing my shirt

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right now too, the I'll Fight you shirt. You're watching

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me podcast. It's so cute. Anyway, you can pick up

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this merch locally if you're nearby, at Sport and Center

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in Denim Springs. There's no shipping costs. They've got everything

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in stock. The backstock is in the back and so

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you can ask for Danielle she knows me, and she's

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got all my stuff and you can go pick it

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up there, save you a few bucks. Also, y'all, don't

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forget to go look at Crime Wire Weekly, which is

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now on its own feed. It's its own show, and

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that's where me and Jim, Jim and I, however you

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want to say it, we break down current true crime

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stories for you. And it's stories from all over the US,

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the good, the bad, and the ugly. So y'all go

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check that out. It'll give you something extra to listen to.

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So let's jump into this episode now. When I left

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off with you last episode, John and Karen had been

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out for drinks and Karen then dropped him off at

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the home of who I have now started to refer

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to as the in law Albert's home. Real quick. This

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is a part two episode. Disclaimer. This is a part

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two episode, so if you have not listened to part one,

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now's your chance to stop go back and listen to

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part one so that this one will make sense. It

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will not make sense if you haven't listened to part one.

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All right, So she dropped off John and then next

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thing you know, she left the house to go home. Well,

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as the story progressed. Police were now responding to that

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in law Albert home where John was found on the ground,

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and it was in the very early morning hours. He

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was near frozen, taken to a hospital because he'd been

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laying out in blizzard like conditions that basically the entire night. Now,

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the biggest question in your mind probably is why were

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the three women who did not even live at that home?

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Why were they the ones outside of that home in

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those early morning hours with John on the ground. Well,

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investigators would need answers to this question as well, And

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so to explain this to you in a clear way,

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I'm gonna have to back up. Now. If you've been

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following this case, then you off the top already understand

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why I'm breaking this down the way that I'm doing it.

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But if you have not, I want to warn you

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You've got to pay attention. There's so many characters that

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are going to come into play in this story. But

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I've got to back up a little bit for you

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to understand why those three women were even outside of

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that home. So most obvious to ask in the moment

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is how was John even found out in the snow? Well?

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The three women that were at that home in those

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early morning hours. It wasn't their house. Remember, I want

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to remind you who those three women were. Number one,

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it was John's girlfriend, Karen Reid. Number two it was

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new neighbor wife Albert. And then it was old family

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friend of John, Carrie. So it's Karen, the new neighbor

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of John's wife and Carrie. So asking questions as to

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this situation right in that moment initially would be very

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difficult because John's girlfriend, Karen was having a complete and

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total meltdown. She was emotionally unstable. She was not dealing

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well with the fact that John was now declared dead

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at the hospital, and she was doing so bad with

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this information, so much so that she had to be

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brought to the hospital as a psych patient or this

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was considered a psych situation because she is threatening to

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kill herself if John was dead. She simply just could

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not handle it, and so she was taken to the

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psych portion of the hospital. She didn't want to change

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into the clothing that is always given to these psych

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patients at the hospital. She was being a little difficult

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to deal with in the moment. She was very emotionally dysregulated.

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She refused to give them a urine sample for testing.

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She didn't want to do that, but she would later

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have a reason for why she didn't want to give

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that you're in sample, which was indeed validated, And I'm

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gonna go ahead and tell you what that is. Karen,

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when she was at the hospital, was on her period

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and she did not have supplies, nor did she have

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a tampon in So her thing was, I don't want

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to pee in front of anyone, because this is this

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is humiliating, is this is not cool Because psych patients,

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if you don't know this, they're never left alone at

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the hospital ever. In that room, there's gonna be someone

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with eyes on them at all times, including whenever they

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go to the bathroom. So she didn't want to pee

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in front of anybody. Regardless, though Karen was eventually able

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to say to the investigators that she went out drinking.

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They are together, they all went out drinking and then

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John didn't come home and they found him there the

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next morning. Neither Karen nor the people at the Albert home,

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the in law Albert home, none of them had any

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clear exit explanation as to why John, though was out

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in the front yard, so police would need to back

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up even further to determine the last known steps of

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John and to try to determine how did he even

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get there. So the previous night, John and Karen had

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been out drinking with all of the friends, so police

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wanted to look a little more closely into exactly what

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went on that previous night in question. So backing up

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when John is alive now, the previous day, John and

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Karen had been texting throughout that day and it appeared

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in their text message exchanges that they had gotten into

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a little bit of an argument about their relationship and

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the kids that John now had custody of. The argument

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basically was that John felt Karen was spoiling them and

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that she was spending too much money on the children,

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things like expensive clothing and treats that John felt were

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really extravagant in his opinion for the kids. But they

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also continued to text and communicate about how they agreed

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parenting is hard. Neither one of them had their own children.

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They were together trying to handle taking on these kids,

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and John flat out set at one point that he

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wasn't built for this. He was stressed, and they were

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together struggling with this entire situation. They also discussed whether

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they should even hang out together that night, because Karen's

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feelings were hurt from this previous fight about the kids,

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and she was kind of expressing that maybe we shouldn't

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even see each other tonight. Eventually, though, John told her

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that he was going to go have some drinks with friends,

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and they kind of were back and forth about whether

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she should come and meet up with him with the

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other people that night. It does go back and forth.

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My personal opinion about all the text messages, and I'm

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not reading all these text messages, that's the gist of it.

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My personal opinion here is that I feel like, in

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the moment that these texts were going back and forth,

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Karen was just really wanting to hear John say that

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he wanted her okay, but he wasn't really giving her

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that in the moment, he was frustrated and he was just,

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in my humble opinion, being a guy. It was nothing

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bad either, I want to be very clear, nothing bad

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about that. It's just a guy who understandably was dealing

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with a whole lot on top of now his woman

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being needy emotionally, and that's what it felt like. It

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wasn't aggressive, It wasn't I hate you anything like that.

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It was just an argument and her feelings were hurt.

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And he wasn't like, I love you, please come back,

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let's make up. It was more like, nah, I'm gonna

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go hang out with the guys.

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Now.

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Remember John's niece and her best friend had just gotten

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news that they had gotten into that private school together. Well,

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bestie's dad, his name is Michael, and John decided to

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go have some drinks and hang out together at a

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bar called C. F. McCarthy's. This is also where they

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had called and wanted to invite another friend named Kurt

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Roberts to come and join them. So Kurt, in this conversation,

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didn't want to go at first, but John and Michael

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had started kind of picking on him about staying at

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home and being like, what's the problem, dude, matter of fact, again,

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this is kind of funny. But Michael at some point

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called Kurt a pussy and said, all right, whatever, pussy,

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don't come out. Well at that point Kurt was like, well,

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I can't let that happen. You're not gonna call me one,

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and so he decided, all right, fine, I'll come out

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just for a little while, and he went and met

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them at the bar at c F. McCarthy's. Now for reference,

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so you will understand who who Kurt is. Kurt is

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married to carry one of the women that found John

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in the front yard with Karen. Okay, So I'm hoping

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this is all making sense. Everybody's kind of intertwined here. Now.

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Video at the bar shows the guys just being guys.

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They show up, they're storytelling, they're slapping each other on

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the shoulders, they're laughing throughout the conversations. Everyone's drinking beer,

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and it's just a good relaxed time at this location.

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And Karen would eventually come and meet up with them too,

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but at the moment, she was having these water heater

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issues at her own home and she was having to

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get that resolved, and so it was this back and

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forth about that. So, picking up around nine o'clock that

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night of January the twenty eighth, that is when Karen

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met up with John and the other guys at c. F.

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McCarthy's bar. Now, to give you a little visual about

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the bar, the bar is narrow, and John is seated

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about midway on the bar stools, and he's up at

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the bar, which the bar is packed, like, all the

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seats are taken, all the bar stools are taken. People

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have to literally squeeze past one another to get from

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point A to point B. It's just a very very

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narrow area. And Karen walks up. When she walks up,

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John puts one arm around her and they kind of

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share a kiss at the bar, and he then lowers

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his hand down to her lower backside and he's rubbing

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her real comfortingly. And it's a part of the bar

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where only your lover or your spouse would be allowed

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to place their hand on that lower back area. So

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John was drinking this long neck beer while Karen she

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really preferred these cocktail style drinks, so she was ordering drinks,

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and so it's the guys and Karen kind of mingling together.

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The bar though, wasn't making the drinks to Karen's liking

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as far as strength the wind. So what she started

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doing she would kind of drink the drink. She didn't

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feel it strong enough for her buck, so she would

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then order an extra shot and then would mix that

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in her full drink, basically making it a double if

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it was even really a full single to begin with.

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She felt like it wasn't. So from what I gather

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at this point, it seems like Karen and John drank

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more often than not, and so it really does seem

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to me, based on how they were, that she had

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a higher tolerance for this amount of liquor. Then I'll

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tell you I probably would, because you know, I don't

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drink liquor every day. I don't drink liquor often really,

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it's just whenever I'm out in social settings or whatever.

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That said. Neither is falling down drunk. Both appeared to

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be very with it. They are relaxed. You can tell

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that she's really chilled or smiling and chatting with everyone.

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But there's no fall down drunk, stumbling bumping into people

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type of situation. Well, about an hour later, this would

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be around ten pm, Michael, who was the best friend

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of the niece's dad, he got a call and he

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had to leave the bar because his son was playing

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hockey with a friend at the house and he knocked

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his tooth out playing hockey. That's so cliche, But when

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he got that phone call, he's like, oh shit, I

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gotta go, guys. You know, my son got hurt. And

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so he says his goodbyes, and he left the bar.

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When he left the bar, he went and picked up

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his son, and then he drove to John's house because

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his daughter was there with the niece because they were besties.

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He picked up his daughter from John's house, and then

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the three of that little family went home to their

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house for the night, leaving John's niece at his home

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alone for the time being. But again, she's a teenager.

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00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.039
It's not like she's a young kid or anything. At

238
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.639
that same time, Kurt decided that he too wanted to

239
00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:21.919
get home because the snow was starting to fall. Remember

240
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.759
there's a big blizzard that's coming. So between nine and ten,

241
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.320
Karen is served roughly five drinks. It's a combo of

242
00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.000
drinks and shots. Now, this is going to later be

243
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.879
argued in this story of whether of exactly how many

244
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.960
drinks that she got. But for your intents and purposes

245
00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.960
right now, let's say she had a combination of drinks

246
00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:47.799
and shots, a total of probably five drinks. Based on

247
00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.440
how much liquor and how many shots she's had, I

248
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:57.120
personally believe that she is intoxicated. Okay, now she's intoxicated,

249
00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:01.159
but she is functioning very well in the videos. So

250
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.320
it's kind of like tomato Tomato. Is she drunk or

251
00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.639
is she intoxicated? And I mean neither here nor there. Okay,

252
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:12.080
she is obviously had plenty to drink. So during this

253
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.919
same time frame at c F McCarthy's that all of

254
00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.519
this has gone on that I'm telling you about John's

255
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.559
new neighbors, Jennifer and Matt McCabe. They arrived at the

256
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:26.440
Waterfall Bar and Grill. They're having drinks, and then about

257
00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.639
an hour after that is when in law Brian Albert.

258
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.480
The in law Alberts Brian met up with them as

259
00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:39.120
well at the Waterfall Bar. So after the two friends

260
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.240
left John and Karen at c F McCarthy's, that's when

261
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.639
John and Karen made their way to the Waterfall Bar

262
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:51.559
and Grill because old neighbor Chris Albert had texted John

263
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:53.759
and said that they were at the Waterfall Bar and

264
00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.600
that they should come over there and meet them there. Now,

265
00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.639
for reference, old neighbor Chris, he owns a a pizza

266
00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.600
shop in this sub it's like a pizza and sub

267
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:06.440
sandwich shop. Well, he had seen John earlier in the

268
00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:08.960
day because John had dropped in to the pizza shop

269
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.879
to get his nephew some pizza, and so they had

270
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.120
kind of chit chatted earlier in the day, so that's

271
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.200
why you know they were still texting or river. So

272
00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:21.679
this meant that the old neighbor Chris Albert and the

273
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:26.600
in law Alberts were now at the bar, the Waterfall

274
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:32.080
with Karen and John. So the couple on this surveillance

275
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.200
photo at the new bar, the Waterfall Bar, they are relaxed,

276
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:40.840
they're loving, they're having a good time. Old neighbor Julie Albert,

277
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.039
she's married to Chris. She left because she started to

278
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.440
get a migraine and she just was ready to take

279
00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.200
it to the house. Chris decided to stay a little

280
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.360
while longer, but then he too would leave a little

281
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.360
bit later and he walked home because it was a

282
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.559
short enough distance that he could just walk to the house.

283
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.480
Everyone else at the bar is continuing to have a

284
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:04.200
good time and drinking and laughing. But around midnight, last

285
00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.799
call would go into effect at the Waterfall Bar and

286
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:07.919
it was going to be closing.

287
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:08.679
Well.

288
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:13.200
I mentioned last episode that the in law Alberts invited

289
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:17.240
everyone back to their home to continue the party. So

290
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:23.720
investigators now wanted to know what exactly happened after everybody

291
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.600
left the bar, so phone records would come into play here.

292
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.440
Phone records would show that at twelve fourteen midnight, new

293
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.279
neighbor Jennifer McCabe called John O'Keefe's phone and she gave

294
00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.879
him directions to the in law Albert's home. They didn't

295
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.919
know how to get there. So it's at this point

296
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.840
that this investigation is about to go kind of haywire

297
00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.480
and things are about to get really really squirrely in

298
00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:01.279
my storytelling. But that's because that's how it went in

299
00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:05.920
the real life situation. See, when John was found outside

300
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.640
of the in law Albert's home, investigators never knocked on

301
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:16.000
the door of the home to speak to the homeowners. Now,

302
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.759
in the spirit of being fair officers, at that moment,

303
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.720
when they found John, they really didn't have probable cause

304
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:28.519
to search the home in any way because there really

305
00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.440
wasn't a link yet to the actual home yet. Okay,

306
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.440
So I want to be fair there. They didn't go

307
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:36.799
knock on the door or search the home because they

308
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.240
really just had a body in a front yard that

309
00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:42.240
maybe he had been hit by a car, or he

310
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.799
odeed or whatever. They didn't quite know. But That was

311
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.480
until everyone on scene that showed up to respond was

312
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:55.000
notified that the guy on the ground was John O'Keefe.

313
00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:00.880
He was a fellow Boston police officer, and they knew

314
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:04.599
they found out from the women at the scene that

315
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.839
he had been out drinking the night before with the

316
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:13.920
very people whose yard he was found in. So at

317
00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.640
that point, I want my listeners to understand, at that point,

318
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.240
there is clear pressing interest to make contact with those

319
00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:27.599
homeowners and ask some questions. You see, there's a link there. Now,

320
00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:30.400
Now I need to talk to these people because in

321
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.960
an investigation, you've got to be completely objective. You have

322
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.680
to be taking anything into consideration, especially when a body

323
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:39.920
is found in a front yard. I'm going to pause

324
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.720
that discussion though, for the future in a little bit

325
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:47.599
when I speak about that. But in that same spirit

326
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:51.519
of curiosity of this connection, what if I told you

327
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.480
the homeowners, the in law Alberts, never came outside to

328
00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.160
see what was going on in their front yard. Never, never,

329
00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.319
during any of this. Now that's really really strange. Considering

330
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:14.640
in law Albert, the homeowner, Brian Albert. Guess what, he's

331
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:21.200
a Boston Police officer himself, So like something of this

332
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:26.839
magnitude is happening outside of your house, in your front yard,

333
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:34.000
with fire trucks, ambulances, police cars, crime tape, and you

334
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.359
never thought to go outside and check and see what's happening.

335
00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:43.319
It's fair to say that at minimum, that's really fucking weird.

336
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.880
Can we all agree on that that's strange. If I

337
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.640
hear a weird noise in the night, I go outside,

338
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:52.759
you know what I mean? Like if I see or

339
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.680
hear a fire truck in my neighborhood, I go outside

340
00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.680
because I'm wondering what's happening. Nothing. So back to the

341
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.319
night that John had died. At this point, I'm going

342
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.079
to mix in facts and data with what witnesses would

343
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.440
say as police questioned them about the night of John's death.

344
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.440
All Right, and this is going to be really important

345
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.920
as I'm trying to lay out the story in timeline.

346
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:17.839
And that's why I'm going to be very meticulous in

347
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.119
how I do this. All Right, So, like I already

348
00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:24.079
told you, at twelve fifteen, new neighbor Jennifer and Matthew McCabe,

349
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.799
they had made it to the in law Albert's home

350
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.480
to continue the party, and Jennifer had been texted John

351
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:35.200
at twelve twenty seven, so she had spoken to him

352
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.880
on the phone a few minutes earlier, about two or three,

353
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:40.759
that's probly ten minutes later. About ten minutes later, she

354
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:46.519
texted John and said here question mark. Two minutes later

355
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:51.200
Jen and Jen then called John. He answers the phone

356
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.319
where they spoke on the phone, and about the same

357
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.960
time that that is happening, another guy, his name is Ryan,

358
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.400
he arrived at the in law Albert's home. Now, this

359
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:05.880
guy's a little cutie. I'm not gonna lie to you.

360
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.680
He's a little cutie in his twenties. Who is Ryan? Well,

361
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:13.480
Ryan had been at c. F. McCarthy's, the bar, with

362
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.759
his sister and a few others, having some drinks. His

363
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.400
sister left earlier in the night, and she ended up

364
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:23.559
at the in law Albert's home because drum roll please,

365
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.319
she was friends with the son of the in law Alberts.

366
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.680
And just to make this story more confusing than it

367
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.519
already is, guess what the name of the in law

368
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:40.559
Albert's son is. It's also Brian Albert, so I'm gonna

369
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.000
call him Brian Albert Junior. All right, So why was

370
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.839
she there at the house? As well well, the son

371
00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:51.000
in law, Albert Brian was having a birthday get together

372
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.839
because it was his birthday and he had people over

373
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.119
and they were kind of having a party at the

374
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:58.799
house while his parents were out drinking at the bar. Well,

375
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.720
when Ryan left c. F. McCarthy's with another friend. His

376
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.279
name's Ricky, it doesn't even matter, okay. When he left

377
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:07.000
the bar and they were going to go head home.

378
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.559
This was around midnight, his sister texted him and said, hey,

379
00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.480
will you come pick me up at the Albert's home.

380
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:16.839
Ryan had never been there before, and so she gave

381
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:21.359
him directions and he arrived shortly thereafter. When this guy

382
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:25.240
Ryan arrived at the in law Albert's home, he said

383
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:30.440
that Karen's vehicle was there. Karen's vehicle, that suv with

384
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:35.839
John and Karen. That vehicle was stopped in front of

385
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:41.559
the Albert's home. Now, Ryan was in a different vehicle, obviously.

386
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.799
He stopped right outside of the driveway okay, where the

387
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.240
garage would come down to the street, and so he

388
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.720
sat there in the vehicle. He didn't get out, but

389
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:52.759
he opened the door which would have been the passenger

390
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:55.359
side door, and he spoke to his sister who came

391
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:58.759
out to the car. She says, wait a minute, maybe

392
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:00.279
y'all should just come in and we can have some

393
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.680
more drinks instead of leaving. Now, Ryan's like, my sister's

394
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:05.480
a fricking pain in the ass because we just drove

395
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.079
to go pick her up. Now she's inviting us to

396
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.839
go back into the house. But they didn't want to.

397
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.400
The brother didn't want to, and so they talked for

398
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.319
a minute or two outside and then Ryan was like whatever,

399
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:16.200
and she says, I'll just stay then, and he says, okay, fine,

400
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:16.759
I'm going home.

401
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:17.200
Okay.

402
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.480
So they're in their twenties. Shit doesn't make sense, all right,

403
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.519
So whenever the sister goes back up to the house,

404
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:29.200
that's whenever Ryan they start driving past Karen's vehicle parked

405
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:32.720
in front of the Albert home. When he passed, he

406
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:38.079
noticed that the car that Karen's car was roughly one

407
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:43.519
car lengths distance away from the flagpole. As they drove past,

408
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.720
he also noticed that her dome light was on in

409
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.039
the front of the suv, and he said that the

410
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.559
brake lights were lit up like she was just parked

411
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:55.160
foot on the brake. He never in that timeframe saw

412
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.599
anybody get out of Karen's suv. He never saw anybody

413
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.440
walk from the house to the suv nor from the

414
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.160
suv to the house. Basically it remained parked but running.

415
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.319
The snow had just started to fall, it had not

416
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:13.720
yet accumulated on the ground, and both Jennifer McCabe, which

417
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.279
is the new neighbor Jennifer who was texting and calling John,

418
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.799
and Ryan Nagel both said they saw Karen's vehicle pull

419
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:25.720
up outside of the Albert residence. Now, during that time

420
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.799
that Ryan was talking and waiting for his sister, Jennifer

421
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:35.400
McCabe texted John's phone and said, pull behind me. Her

422
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.799
car was already in the driveway instead of being in

423
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.079
front of the house. She wanted John to pull behind

424
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.160
her in the driveway. At that exact same time that

425
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:49.559
all of this is going on, another young person would

426
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.960
leave that home. This guy's name is Colin guess what

427
00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:00.519
Albert Okay, and Colin Albert is not the on of

428
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.400
the home that he's at, in law Alberts. He is

429
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.759
the son of old neighbor Alberts, Chris and Julie. So

430
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:12.799
basically the home that he's at, he's their nephew, so

431
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.799
he goes and he leaves the house. Well, there was

432
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.880
no answer to that message that Jen McCabe sent John

433
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.599
about pulling behind me. So nine minutes later, at twelve forty,

434
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.079
Jen mcab again texted Hello, question mark. There was no answer,

435
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:31.680
and again she texted him two more minutes later, where

436
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:37.160
are you? No answer? Five minutes after that she texted

437
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:42.599
again Hello. None of those text messages would ever be

438
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:47.759
answered by John. So at one thirty am, that's whenever

439
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:50.240
new neighbor mccab's decided that they were going to leave

440
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.440
the in law albert residence with a girl. Her name

441
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.119
was Julian and they were going to bring her home.

442
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.160
She was another kid that was at the party, so

443
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:02.279
they gave that that girl a ride home before they

444
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:07.519
went home themselves between one point thirty and two am.

445
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.279
In law Alberts they have a daughter named Caitlin. She

446
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:14.000
leaves the home as well for the evening. My point

447
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.839
is lots of people were leaving this house throughout the

448
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.960
night in the early morning hours, so as all of

449
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.920
this is going on, multiple hours are then going to

450
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.119
pass and the cold blizzard gets really intense. This is

451
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.680
one of the worst blizzards they've had in a while.

452
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:39.160
So it was after four am when Karen Reid woke up.

453
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.880
She was at John's house and rolled over and realized

454
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.960
John had not come home from the party at the

455
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.640
in law Alberts. So she got up, she searched the house.

456
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.000
She could not find John anywhere. She was still a

457
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.759
little bit affected from the drinking the night before, and

458
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.279
so she was a little woozy, but and she couldn't

459
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:01.720
quite remember what had happened, like what all went on.

460
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:04.160
She was kind of, you know, freaking out that John

461
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:08.359
wasn't there, clearly had never arrived home, and the fact

462
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.079
that this was completely out of the ordinary. This isn't

463
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.559
John didn't just go out and not come home at night.

464
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:17.960
That wasn't what they did. Karen then ran into John's

465
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:22.960
niece's room, panicked in a full on panic, checked on

466
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.359
her and made sure that she was okay, and then

467
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.000
was like, oh my god, John, he didn't come home.

468
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.160
John's not home. She grabbed the niece's phone and she

469
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.960
called John's new neighbor and party friend, Jennifer McCabe. This

470
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.680
was at five am, and she's asking her, do you

471
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.880
know where John is? He didn't come home, And she

472
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.440
says I don't know where he is, so she hangs up,

473
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:51.000
and she then calls John's longtime friend Carrie Robert's When

474
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:53.720
the phone rang at Carrie's house at five o'clock in

475
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.039
the morning, Carrie certainly wasn't expecting it, and it was

476
00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:00.000
completely out of the norm for her relationship with Carrie

477
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.079
and Read. They weren't tight like that, and they certainly

478
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:04.799
didn't call at five o'clock in the morning, so she

479
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:07.880
was kind of confused. She picks up the phone and

480
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.680
she answers it, and her husband Kurt, who had also

481
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.200
been out the night before with John, he can just

482
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.559
hear yelling through the phone, really loud, yelling, so loud

483
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.000
that it actually roused him from his sleep. So whenever

484
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.880
she had answered the phone, it was Karen on the

485
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:28.920
other line, screaming through their phone Carrie, Carrie, Carrie, and

486
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:31.200
so Kurt was startled and he rolls over and it's like,

487
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:35.759
who is that yelling? And Karen then explains that or

488
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:40.039
excuse me, Carrie explains that Karen thinks John may have

489
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.200
been hit by a snowplow or something because he never

490
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.680
came home, and John would have never just left the

491
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.880
niece home alone good thing that Karen went home, you know,

492
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.200
and happened to stay there, but she was just panicked

493
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.480
because John wasn't there. And Karen then asks Carrie, hey,

494
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.640
can I come to your house and you go with

495
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.319
me and let's go. Let's go. Look, I'm freaking out.

496
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:04.880
I don't know where where he is. So she agrees.

497
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.400
Carrie says, yes, you can come here and I'll go

498
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.359
help you look for him. So at five oh seven am,

499
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:13.519
John had a ring camera on his house, and that

500
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.039
ring camera shows Karen get in her vehicle. She backs

501
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.279
her SUV up, so she backs out of the driveway

502
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.480
or backs out and then turns and drives out of

503
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:27.359
the driveway to head to Carrie's house. So Carrie got

504
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:29.440
on her clothes, she got dressed, and she goes and

505
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.839
she jumps in her car, gets it running and is

506
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:35.880
waiting for Karen to arrive. Well, while she's waiting for

507
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.240
Karen to arrive, Carrie's kind of thinking about him. My god,

508
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.079
you know, maybe maybe he something happened to him, if

509
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.440
he was hit by a car, or maybe he got arrested.

510
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.200
Who knows, I mean, he just doesn not come home.

511
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:50.319
So she decides, well, let me just go ahead and

512
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:52.680
call up to the police department and see if he's

513
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:54.480
been picked up or if anybody knows where he is

514
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.880
or are there any you know, rescues that have gone

515
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.599
on or anything like that. So she and when she calls,

516
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.480
obviously this is recorded. It's a very lighthearted kind of talk.

517
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:09.319
She even chuckles, figure and well, he must have just

518
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.279
drank too much and crashed on someone's couch. Maybe he's

519
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.240
sleeping it off. I want you, though, to give the

520
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.640
call a listen yourself, and I want you to listen

521
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.240
to Carrie Roberts calling and inquiring in reference to John

522
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:25.000
while she's waiting for Karen Reid to show up.

523
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:27.680
Can't please start and good?

524
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:32.839
Hi, My name is Carry. I'm calling because my friend

525
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.119
boyfriend did not come home last night. They were at waterfalls,

526
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:42.079
and now she is calling me hysterical because she doesn't

527
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:44.880
know where he is. You didn't pick anybody up by

528
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:49.880
the name of John o'keith, did you, John o'kete. Yeah,

529
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:51.680
he's a box and crops and it would be on

530
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:57.400
sut But no, he probably got a ride and passed

531
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:58.400
out at someone's house.

532
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.839
I don't know, but yeah, but no, we didn't walk

533
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:05.039
anybody up or anything like that. And where does he live?

534
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.160
He lived on meadow they're at the present.

535
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:14.279
He lives on meadow off a pleasant Okay. And where

536
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.599
where is the white home? You said your girlfriend with

537
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:18.400
his girlfriend?

538
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.640
Yeah, they were out having drinks and then she laughed

539
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.440
and expected him to come home at some point and

540
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:27.880
he never did yep. And so I said to her,

541
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:29.640
you know, I have been had been out with him

542
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.200
earlier in the night, but then he obviously he came home,

543
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.240
and she he had cut to be with Nisa nephew

544
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:36.440
because their parents passed away.

545
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:37.160
Okay.

546
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:39.359
And so she's home with the Nisa and nephew and

547
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:42.000
they're old enough to be home. It's just she's nervous,

548
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.359
says he never even called the nias.

549
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:44.359
Yeah.

550
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.079
So she's like, I feel like something happened, And I said, okay, Well,

551
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.480
so he called the area hospital, but nobody happened. I

552
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:53.960
personally think he probably some one probably picked him off

553
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:54.480
in a casta.

554
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:58.640
I don't I don't know. Yeah, where did he did

555
00:31:58.640 --> 00:31:59.799
he He didn't drive last night?

556
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:01.759
No?

557
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:07.200
No, okay? Well I mean yeah, I mean well again,

558
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:11.240
it's more it would be turned by you. She would

559
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:14.119
have to you know, call in, come the station and

560
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.759
talk to us. But I mean, as of right now,

561
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.559
it's more. You know, he just didn't come home last night.

562
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.200
Is this is this common sometimes?

563
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.000
No? No, no, no, that's why that's since she didn't

564
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.920
he didn't tell his knees, that's kind of why she's

565
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.599
more freaking out. So I think I called the area hospitals,

566
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:36.839
I said, of recall chant and police, just to make

567
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.440
sure he didn't get picked up. And like I said,

568
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.519
he's bounce some police office. I know, the bunch of people,

569
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.279
anybody could have kicked him out. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

570
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.000
freaking it out. Okay, apparently they were having a pleasant

571
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:47.920
entirety of some Yeah.

572
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.759
No, no, no, unfortunately I wasn't there. I was stuck here,

573
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.599
but we haven't. We didn't get any calls anything like that.

574
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.160
Nobody was arrested or anything like that, you know. Alrighty, well,

575
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:06.599
thank you, I had no problem, good luck. That's all right.

576
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.559
So as you can tell, the police say, no, not

577
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.240
that they knew of that. They didn't have any record

578
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.759
of John being picked up. So Karen just continued to

579
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.039
wait in her vehicle. The weather was still really bad

580
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.759
and it was still really dark outside. But Karen never

581
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:23.400
showed up to the house because she actually went to

582
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:28.359
Jen McCabe's house. So the women all kind of get

583
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.640
on the phone and there and they're talking together, and

584
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.400
so Carrie says, look y'all just wait there and then

585
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.480
I'll just come meet up with you at the house.

586
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:39.000
So the new plan is now that Jen McCabe is

587
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.160
going to drive Karen's SUV back to John's house and

588
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:47.440
then they're all going to ride together to go look

589
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:54.160
for John with Carrie. So when Carrie pulled into John's

590
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:59.680
driveway behind Karen's vehicle, she then noticed that Karen's tail

591
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:03.960
light was broken. And she noticed it because the light

592
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.480
was shining through and it looked kind of it looked

593
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.920
different because it was like someone had their foot on

594
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:11.559
the brake, and so it just caught her attention that

595
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.559
the tail light looked different to her. This whole time

596
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:18.400
that Carrie is driving to go meet up with the

597
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:21.559
other two women, they stayed on the phone together and

598
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:25.039
they just kind of communicated between the two vehicles, and

599
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:31.320
at one point Karen says to Jen McCabe, I left

600
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:34.440
him at the waterfall bar. I don't, I don't. I

601
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.199
don't know why he wouldn't have come home. But Jen

602
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.320
McCabe says, no, you didn't. I saw you pull in

603
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.079
front of my sister's house. And Karen says, oh, okay,

604
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.360
kind of confused. No, she was drinking right, so she

605
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.199
she must have forgot that part. So all three of

606
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.159
the women once, once Carrie arrives, all three of them

607
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.719
go inside John's house and all together they go to

608
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.360
make sure that he's not actually at the house and

609
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:02.840
she didn't miss him. Jen McCabe and Karen searched the

610
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:06.719
upstairs while Carrie searched the downstairs. Well, he's not there.

611
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.559
So as all of the women walk out of John's house,

612
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.360
Karen pointed to her tail light and said, oh my god,

613
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.440
my tail light is broken. And so all the three

614
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.199
of the women are looking at it, and Karen says,

615
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.159
oh my god, I wonder if I hit him. Could

616
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:26.239
I have hit him? Well, Carrie goes up and she

617
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:30.119
looks closer and kind of commented, well, I don't know,

618
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.079
but just be careful because there's a jagged edge on this,

619
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.960
on this broken light, someone might cut themselves or you know,

620
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.880
your your shirt might get caught on it, so be careful.

621
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.639
And so it was the real the rear passenger tail light.

622
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.440
But considering John was missing, I mean, that was such

623
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.599
a leap for Karen to say, do you think maybe

624
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.079
I hit him? It was just absolutely like ridiculous, you

625
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:52.400
hit something, okay, but you didn't hit him. Get in

626
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:53.639
the car. And she's kind of like, why would you

627
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:56.559
even think that. Get in the car. Let's go. So

628
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:03.000
Karen wanted to go back to Jen McCabe's sister's house, which,

629
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:06.719
as a reminder here, that's the in law Albert's house.

630
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:11.920
Jen McCabe the new neighbor. Her sister is married to

631
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:16.400
in law Albert Bryan, so it's her sister's house that

632
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.159
they're heading to to look for John. So Carrie drove

633
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:25.119
and Jen mccab gave directions from the passenger seat because

634
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:26.960
Carrie didn't know where to drive, she didn't know how

635
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.880
to get to the house. So Carrie, Karen, and Jen

636
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.880
McCabe start talking about how the in law Albert's home

637
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.920
is near another woman's house that John used to date,

638
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.079
and I don't know why that came up. They're just

639
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:46.679
kind of talking about it, and Carrie kind of in

640
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:48.599
the back of her mind wandered, I want to ife

641
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:50.639
ended up there or something. You know, people don't just

642
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.599
go missing. Maybe he ended up back of the ex's house.

643
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:54.760
Who knows, but that was just kind of a fleeting

644
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.360
thought in her mind. So as they're driving to the

645
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.599
in law Albert's house, they're looking out the windows. All

646
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:03.559
the women are looking out. They're trying to see if

647
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:08.920
they see John out somewhere. They didn't, and Carrie at

648
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:11.760
one point ends up getting aggravated with Karen and yell.

649
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.400
She yells at her just shut up, be quiet, because

650
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.519
Karen at this point was damn near yelling. She was frantic,

651
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:20.280
she was freaking out. It was just making the whole

652
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.360
situation completely stressful, and she's just like, be quiet, just

653
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:25.320
shut up. We're gonna go find him. We're going to

654
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.679
the house. It was about six am when they pulled

655
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.320
up to the in law Albert's home, which was on

656
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:35.000
Fairview Drive. Now, the house was on the left hand

657
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:39.079
side as they are pulling up, meaning the driver's side

658
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:41.239
as they're pulling up would be on the side of

659
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:46.000
the house. So Karen is just becoming increasingly worried. As

660
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:48.519
more time has passed and as they get closer to

661
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:51.679
the house and they pull up right to it. Karen

662
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:54.719
starts screaming, there he is, Oh my god, there he is.

663
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:56.280
Let me the fuck out of this car. And she

664
00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:58.280
starts trying to like jump out of the vehicle, almost

665
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.639
kicking at the door, trying to get the door open.

666
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:08.039
So she runs over to just snow. So Carrie and

667
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.119
Jen McCabe kind of look at each other like, what

668
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:13.360
the fuck is she talking about? And Carrie even said

669
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.599
she's crazy as they both watched her run over to

670
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:19.840
the snow, but neither woman in the car realized it.

671
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:25.440
But when Karen ran up to that snow at that moment,

672
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:28.119
they realized, oh my god, it's like a body outline

673
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:30.679
in the snow, but you could not see a person.

674
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.360
So Karen runs over. She starts immediately like moving snow

675
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.000
and jumps on top of him, trying to warm his

676
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:42.440
body almost and she's like in his shirt. She's trying

677
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.920
to warm his body. And then she jumps up and

678
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.679
she starts giving him mouth to mouth, trying to give CPR.

679
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.559
I don't know that it was effective CPR, but she

680
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:54.159
was completely freaked out and was trying to give him

681
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:58.920
him CPR. So Karen runs over, or Carrie runs over

682
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.960
at this point, and she starts digging at the snow

683
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.599
in front of the guy's face. And now at that

684
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.039
point she didn't actually know if it was John or not,

685
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.760
but when she brushed the snow back, she could definitely

686
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.800
see that this was John. It was absolutely John laying

687
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.079
in the snow, and in that moment that they're looking

688
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.360
at him, John's left eye seemed to be fine. It

689
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:23.440
was his right eye that was completely swollen. There was

690
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:25.920
blood coming out of his nose and his mouth as

691
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.559
well as there was blood in the snow from the

692
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.639
back of his head, but the blood wasn't gushing and

693
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.119
he was freezing. So Karen and Carrie kind of they're

694
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:41.280
going back and forth here, but Carrie starts trying to

695
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:44.519
do chest compressions on John, and while she's trying to

696
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:47.599
do these chest compressions, she yells out at Jen McCabe,

697
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.679
call nine one one, Call nine one one, and then

698
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:52.719
she's screaming at her, there's blankets in the back of

699
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.119
my car, Bring me those blankets, Bring me the blankets.

700
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:57.920
I know that seems kind of silly in the moment,

701
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.719
but she was just desperate to try to t anything

702
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:03.639
to warm John up, and so she took those blankets

703
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.119
and towels and she kind of wrapped them around John's head,

704
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:08.119
just trying to warm him up as best she could.

705
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:10.000
And that is the moment when that nine to one

706
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.679
one call was placed that you heard in episode one

707
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:17.280
of this story. So Jen McKay then runs over after

708
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:21.480
the nine one call, she takes over compressions. At that point, well,

709
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:25.480
Karen is now up. She's running around completely panicked, and

710
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.679
she's just screaming the women's name, just has her hands

711
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:32.639
on her head and she's like, you know, Carrie, Carrie Jin,

712
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.440
Oh my god, carry Jin because she just doesn't know

713
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.280
what to do with herself. That's when two Canton police

714
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:43.400
officers show up. There are officers Sarah and uh mulaney.

715
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.639
They show up at the scene, followed by emergency Services.

716
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.039
It's gonna be about six point twenty four when a

717
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.599
sergeant Michael lank Now arrives on scene. So when he

718
00:40:54.679 --> 00:41:00.800
gets there, EMTs arrive and they report basically that when

719
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.039
they got there, they report that Karen was yelling did

720
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.400
I hit him? Did I hit him? Is he dead?

721
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.199
What's happening? And she's you know, kind of tripping out

722
00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:15.000
from that point further. You know what happened with John

723
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.119
from episode one about him going to the hospital and

724
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:22.960
everything that that happened. But after John's body was taken, Okay,

725
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.320
Carrie walks over there and she starts to pick up

726
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.159
her blankets, and that's when she saw that John's cell

727
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.119
phone was on the ground. It had been I guess,

728
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.079
under his body. So she picked it up and she

729
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.639
put it in her pocket, and later on she handed

730
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:44.360
it to a first responder before she jumped in her

731
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:46.880
car and she went to go get John's parents to

732
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.280
bring them to the hospital. Okay, at this point, I'm

733
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.559
gonna pause for a second, and I want to tell

734
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.440
you about the evidence collection that took place still at

735
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.760
the scene after John and the women had left for

736
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:04.360
the hospital. And I'll tell you, y'all know I'm pretty

737
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.599
transparent here. I did a lot of research on this

738
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:09.519
because admittedly I am not a snow expert. I am

739
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:14.519
in South Louisiana, but I do understand evidence collection and procedure,

740
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.800
just not necessarily in blizzard conditions. So I really wanted

741
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.840
to educate myself to give my best interpretation of what

742
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:25.599
was going on here. So first thing I will tell

743
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:30.639
you is There is absolutely no zero okay, none, no

744
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:35.280
black and white procedure for collecting blood in snow. There

745
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:37.760
is no step one, step two, step three, step four.

746
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.079
There are best practices, but everything within the best practices

747
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:47.400
seems to be general suggestions on what needs to be done,

748
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:51.519
what needs to be done, more than how to do it. Okay,

749
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:53.960
And I know right now someone's screaming, no, there's a

750
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.119
way to collect it in the snow. I understand that,

751
00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:01.320
but there's no one way to do it, and you

752
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.639
have to take into totality the actual weather conditions in

753
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.440
that exact moment as well. Okay, but what I can

754
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.960
tell you is a tent is usually suggested in snowy conditions. Why, well,

755
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.480
the life saving measures at the scene for John really

756
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.239
left the scene completely trampled, for lack of a better word.

757
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:21.920
There was blood in the snow, but there's people that

758
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.119
had run all in trying to save them and whatever.

759
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:25.880
And I've got pictures of all this. I'm gonna post

760
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:27.280
it on Patreon for you so you can go look

761
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:29.480
and see and follow along with what I'm saying. But

762
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:31.920
the crime scene in and of itself, or the scene

763
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:35.639
really wasn't that extensive. Because it had been snowing for

764
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.559
hours before John was found, which meant there could still

765
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.400
be evidence beneath the snow. But there really was just

766
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.119
that small area of blood where John's body was and

767
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:52.320
then a blanket of snow. So police did have a tent, okay,

768
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:56.400
But the problem with the tent was that the wind

769
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:01.000
was whipping and blowing in every direction per consistently, which

770
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.800
made it nearly impossible for them to keep the tent

771
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:07.360
in place and serve the purpose that it would have

772
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.880
been serving. It was a lieutenant Paul Gallagher, He actually

773
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:12.440
had a personal eight by eight tent in his vehicle,

774
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:14.840
but they didn't use it. But they had a reason

775
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:16.960
they didn't use it. It wouldn't have stayed in place.

776
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:21.199
It was blowing everywhere, and it just wouldn't have preserved

777
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.599
a calm scene where they're just trying to keep more

778
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:26.360
snow from falling. So I hope that kind of puts

779
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:29.039
a picture in your mind. They did put up crime

780
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:32.199
scene tape, but that really was serving no purpose. It

781
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:34.920
was blowing all over the place, and the only people

782
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.119
that were at the scene at that point were law enforcements,

783
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:38.880
so it wasn't like they were trying to keep anybody back.

784
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:40.760
They were in the middle of a fucking blizzard. There's

785
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:47.119
nobody out. Homeowners didn't come out either. So there's also

786
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:49.480
a video of this, which I will I'll put on Patreon,

787
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:55.719
but I watched it, and they came up with a

788
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.519
way that they thought that they might could kind of

789
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:02.360
blow snow off the surface in sections to kind of

790
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:04.320
see what was beneath. And what they came up with

791
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:06.559
was that they wanted to basically get a blower, like

792
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.800
a handheld blower you would blow leaves with or snow

793
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.239
or whatever, and they wanted to kind of blow it away,

794
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:16.920
which sounds ridiculous to some people. I'm about to stand

795
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.880
on business unpopular opinion, but I think that it actually

796
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.519
was a pretty decent idea for the moment that they

797
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:25.199
were in. So I watched the video, like I told you,

798
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.119
and there's an officer, he's got the blower. He is

799
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:32.719
lightly blowing across the top of the snow. He's sweeping

800
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.039
in a small back and forth motion, and they cleared

801
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:40.519
a roughly i'd say seven by seven foot maybe ten

802
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.360
x ten foot area and guess what they found a

803
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:49.320
whole bunch of nothing. They just found snow and then

804
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:51.719
the blood that was where John was. It really was

805
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:57.639
not that fruitful of collection and they blew y'all. I mean,

806
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.960
they just didn't find anything. There was nothing there but snow.

807
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:05.559
So the issue now is that the lieutenant that was unseen.

808
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:08.639
This is the Gallagher. Lieutenant Gallager. This was the first

809
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:12.559
time that he had ever done evidence collection in his

810
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:16.480
career in this type of situation as far as weather went,

811
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.280
I know, it gets snowy there, but this was the

812
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:21.079
first time he had ever had a blizzard going on

813
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:26.639
during evidence collection, and so he would be the one

814
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:29.320
with the blower that would go back and forth. But

815
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:34.440
eventually he would uncover a drinking glass with the leaf blower,

816
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:38.239
and that drinking glass or a broken drinking glass was

817
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.440
located right next to where John's body was laying before

818
00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:44.840
they had taken it. The glass, by the way, very

819
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.840
similar to the one that John had carried out of

820
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:53.079
the bar whenever they closed at midnight. So blood samples

821
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:57.320
now became the other issue, or collecting blood samples now

822
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:00.159
became the other issue for the police that were on

823
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:06.079
the scene. So Gallagher, Lieutenant Gallagher's perception of what was

824
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:10.679
going on is that swabbing the blood with the swabs

825
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:14.519
would not really do well, he said, because of the

826
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.760
frozen nature of the snow and the conditions that they

827
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:20.360
were in. They decided they would rather just take the

828
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.679
whole section of snow rather than try to swab the

829
00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:27.920
frozen blood in the snow. So what they did was

830
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:33.039
they got six solo red solo red solo cup. You

831
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:37.199
don't know that song, all right? They filled Let's have

832
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.599
a party, all right. They decided to fill up the

833
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.559
red solo cups and take the samples in these red

834
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:50.760
solo cups back to the station as their evidence. Now,

835
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:53.159
where did they get the cups? This is going to

836
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.519
become a part of contention here. They got the cups

837
00:47:56.519 --> 00:48:01.079
from a neighbor's house. His explanation and the lieutenant's explanation,

838
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.480
is that they got the cups from the neighbor's house

839
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.599
because they were improvising, because they did not have any

840
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:10.440
containers to do what they were trying to do. There's

841
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.280
a problem with this, and I think we all know

842
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:15.840
this as true crime, you know, fans, those cups aren't

843
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:22.000
sterilized in any traditional way. His thoughts were that the

844
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.599
crime lab could just take the whole snow section extract

845
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.119
the DNA as they best saw fit, and so he

846
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:31.480
would just bring it all to them. So they scooped

847
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.360
up the cups of bloody snow. They put them into

848
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.360
an evidence bag and like a brown paper bag, and

849
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:40.199
then they sent that to the police department for it

850
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:42.400
to be turned over to the crime lab. Once they

851
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:45.519
got them there, the crime lab was waiting at the

852
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:48.079
station and they took possession of the samples from there.

853
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:52.199
I will add this in all fairness, Okay, the police

854
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:57.199
agency that was doing this collection is rather small. Okay,

855
00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:01.960
there's only about forty five people in the entire police department.

856
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.239
Because it's so small, I would like to give you

857
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.719
this information. The smaller the department, the more limited in

858
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:13.400
tools and supplies and resources compared to larger agencies that

859
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.639
are probably funded better. These officers, though, even though it's

860
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:19.440
a small agency, still have a job to do. They

861
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.960
should have basic evidence collection skills even if you're a

862
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:25.840
small agency. I don't agree with what they did at

863
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.360
this point because in my humble opinion, what should have

864
00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:30.840
been done is they should have then if they realized

865
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:34.119
they didn't have the collection tools or the containers that

866
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.159
would they needed. All hed to do was radio or

867
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:42.000
call a neighboring agency that was larger and have them

868
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:44.480
bring in what would have been needed. And considering that

869
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:48.079
this lieutenant had thirty years on the force, he should

870
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:50.880
have known that he should have thought that one through.

871
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.639
I don't think that. Maybe in the moment he thought

872
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:58.639
it was the most horrible idea what he did. But

873
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:01.800
in my opinion, this was some shoddy police work. And

874
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:04.440
when you don't do thorough in good police work, it's

875
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.000
just gonna lead to more questions than anything. What you're

876
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:09.440
gonna find out here in a little bit. Now back

877
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.199
to John. At the same time all that was happening,

878
00:50:12.440 --> 00:50:15.079
John was pronounced dead at roughly eight am at the

879
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:20.159
Good Samaritan Hospital. So at nine am, though about an

880
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.119
hour before that, Karen Reid's blood was drawn at the hospital,

881
00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.880
and when the results came back, it was pretty eye

882
00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:30.519
opening because her blood alcohol content at nine a m

883
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:34.239
was point oh eight. That'll get you a DWI in

884
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.039
the great State of Louisiana and pretty much anywhere else

885
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.719
you go. This also means that back when she dropped

886
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:47.239
John off, she was drunk. Okay, because a toxicologist would

887
00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.239
review all of this and say if she still had

888
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:51.440
a point oh eight at nine o'clock in the morning,

889
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.679
she was between point one three and point two nine

890
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:59.360
at twelve forty five, Okay, So sure was drunk, y'all.

891
00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:01.320
So I want to give you a little reference point here.

892
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:05.559
Someone that has a blood alcohol content of point two okay.

893
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:08.800
Even if this is someone who drinks daily, they're still

894
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:12.639
going to experience significant impairments in their reflexes. And that's

895
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.039
according to the University of Central Florida and this whole

896
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:18.159
study that they did on it. So the basics here

897
00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:23.239
is that while tolerance to alcohol can develop with regular drinking,

898
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.880
it doesn't change the fact that there's a primary effect

899
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:33.239
on how impaired you will be. It may change how

900
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:36.440
intoxicated the person feels, but it does not change the

901
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:41.360
objective level of the impairment. So also, the National Institute

902
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:44.400
of Health says that a blood alcohol content above point

903
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:50.519
three is life threatening. So anybody that has basically a

904
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:54.280
point one six to a point three would indicate severe impairment.

905
00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:57.199
And the reason that I'm telling you this is that

906
00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:59.840
I like to look at information and combine it with

907
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.239
but I'm told are the facts of the case, and

908
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:04.400
it looks like she was pretty fucking toasted when she

909
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:07.000
was driving to the Alberts the previous night, which makes

910
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:08.920
sense as to why she may not have remembered it

911
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:13.360
if she, in fact you drove there. So to this point,

912
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.159
I want to make you just understand that Canton p

913
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:20.119
D is who did the evidence collection and the initial investigation,

914
00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:23.480
and they are a very small department. Well around eleven

915
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:26.760
am the day you know, John had just died previously,

916
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:32.480
Massachusetts State Police would start being involved in this case

917
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:35.840
and they wanted to interview the in law Alberts at

918
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.760
their home. Now, it's at this point it's really important

919
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:41.079
for me to tell you something that you need to know.

920
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:47.440
The lead investigator for Canton p D that could have

921
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:52.280
been the lead on this case was problematic. That's why

922
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:55.239
state police was here. Okay, why was he problematic? Because

923
00:52:55.400 --> 00:53:02.960
are you ready? His name was Kevin Please Albert. Every

924
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:06.159
fucker in his story is last named Albert at this point,

925
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.119
and it's making storytelling difficult. That's why I'm working so

926
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:11.519
hard to break it down for you. Okay, But yes,

927
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:16.679
Canton p D's lead detective guy is the third Albert,

928
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:22.920
brother of in law Albert, Brian and old neighbor Chris Albert. Okay,

929
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.119
so this is the third brother to the three brothers,

930
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.079
So it would be a huge conflict of interest for

931
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:32.440
a brother to investigate a death at his own brother's house,

932
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:36.840
don't you think, well, Canton P. D agreed. Especially, let's

933
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.960
add to this that the other brother's wife was one

934
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.840
of the women that found the body. Are you following

935
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:48.159
this intricate web of all of these Alberts, Okay, So ideally,

936
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:51.519
what would happen here? Ideally you would think that the

937
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:55.440
agency that's gonna have the conflict of interest would invite

938
00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:00.199
in state police just to keep things transparent, and they

939
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:03.800
would investigate alongside each other, just for checks and balances,

940
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:06.960
because it's kind of difficult to investigate yourself, Okay, considering

941
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:10.000
who all was involved, So having state police come in

942
00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:13.000
was a great idea at this juncture, in my opinion.

943
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:17.320
So Massachusetts State Police has a trooper named Michael Proctor.

944
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:26.079
Michael Proctor is supervised by Sergeant Uri Bucknick. Those two

945
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:30.519
arrived to conduct interviews with the occupants at the in

946
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:35.360
law Albert home where John was found. The overall statement

947
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:39.480
of everybody that was in the home was that John

948
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:42.920
never came in the house, although he and Karen had

949
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:47.320
been given instructions of how to get there. At Jen

950
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:51.440
McCabe's house, that's new neighbor of John. Her sister, by

951
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:54.800
the way, is who's married to in law Albert Bryan,

952
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:59.239
where the body was found. Jen mccab's house was also

953
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.400
a that they wanted to go speak with. So they

954
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.679
arrived at her house and they went and knocked on

955
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:07.239
the door and they asked, are you Jennifer McCabe and

956
00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:12.280
she told them no, I am not. So the police

957
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:16.599
officers or the troopers went back to their car and

958
00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:19.679
then placed a phone call to her and they said, look,

959
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.239
this is Massachusetts State Police. We need to speak to you.

960
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:26.559
And she said, oh, oh, okay, I need you to

961
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.159
give me ten minutes or so to get dressed. So

962
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:32.679
what she would explain was that when they first came

963
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:34.440
up and knocked on the door and asked if she

964
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:36.880
was Jim mckabe, the reason she said no is she

965
00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:39.039
thought that they were selling something and she didn't want

966
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:43.079
to deal with it whatever. So when she asked for

967
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.519
those ten minutes to get dressed, then the police came

968
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:48.719
up to do the interview. But in the ten minutes

969
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:53.159
that she needed to get dressed, she made two phone calls.

970
00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:57.800
She called her husband, but she also called Carrie Roberts,

971
00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:00.840
the other woman that was with her when they found

972
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:05.440
John's body with Karen. So the police then show up.

973
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:09.360
They're asking some questions and they directly asked her have

974
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:14.599
you spoken to anyone in the last ten minutes before

975
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.719
we got here, and she told them no. But then

976
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.400
she goes, well, hang on, actually I did call my

977
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:25.400
husband and I did call Carrie Roberts. And they're like,

978
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:28.480
all right, is that all that you called, because it's

979
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:32.840
a crime to lie to us, you know, while we're

980
00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:36.039
here asking you questions. So she's like, no, I didn't

981
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:39.159
call anybody else. So they asked questions, they do their thing,

982
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:43.880
and then they handed her their card and they left

983
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:48.880
the house. Well, shortly after they left the house, she

984
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.760
called them back. She said, wait a minute, I actually

985
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:56.960
need to clear something up. And they're like, okay, Well,

986
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.320
I said, I called my husband and I called Carrie,

987
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.480
but I forgot that I called a couple other people

988
00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:06.320
too in that ten minutes. And it's kind of like,

989
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:11.679
in ten minutes, you forgot ten minutes ago or right

990
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:15.039
before we walked in the door. You forgot that you

991
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:17.880
called other people. And she's like, yeah, just you know,

992
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.800
there was a lot going on, but I did call

993
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.199
some other people, so I wanted to let you know.

994
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:24.119
And they're like, okay, well who did you call? And

995
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:27.000
she says, well, it's more like I actually called five people,

996
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:31.559
not too so who all did she call in that

997
00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:34.599
ten minute span that she needed to get dressed? She

998
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:41.199
called Peggy O'Keefe, which is John's mom. She called the

999
00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:48.119
District Attorney's office, and she called Brian Albert, her brother

1000
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:51.960
in law, aka the homeowner where John's body was found,

1001
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:59.480
aka a thirty year Boston police detective. So it's kind

1002
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:02.320
of curious that you called five people in ten minutes,

1003
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:05.400
right when the police say that they need to ask

1004
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:09.320
you some questions. It's curious, Okay, she says, oh, well,

1005
00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:11.760
I called the DA's office because that's where my witness

1006
00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:16.320
advocate was. Okay, well, it doesn't explain why you called

1007
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:22.239
other people though. All right, hours later after that, this

1008
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.320
is around four thirty that same afternoon, both of those

1009
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:29.559
same state troopers went to Karen Reid's parents' home where

1010
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:33.039
Karen was and they interviewed her about what had happened

1011
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:35.599
the night before. Karen explains, the same thing. We went

1012
00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:39.039
out drinking, I dropped John off at the in law

1013
00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:41.800
Albert's home, and then I went to his house. She

1014
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:44.519
had previously thought she dropped him off the bar, but

1015
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.719
she now realizes, oh, I dropped him at John's house.

1016
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:51.000
The thing is, I'm sorry at the new Albert's house.

1017
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:55.719
The thing is the overall statements from all parties did

1018
00:58:55.760 --> 00:59:00.159
not line up. Nobody's statements were lining up. One of

1019
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:03.119
them seemed to know what happened to John, and none

1020
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:06.559
of them would affirm that they ever saw John at

1021
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:11.440
the in law Albert's home, not even Karen. Karen never

1022
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:15.960
saw John walking back and forth from her vehicle. She

1023
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:20.679
just dropped him off. But what was said, though, if

1024
00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:24.119
you remember, was those first responders that were there said

1025
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:28.480
that they overheard Karen saying I hit him. I hit him.

1026
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:33.519
Both Carrie Roberts and Jen McCabe said Karen said she

1027
00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:37.000
hit him, So the police were now wondering if Karen

1028
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.480
was trying to minimize her role in John's death. Carrie

1029
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.920
and Jen McKay both also said they saw Karen's broken

1030
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.039
tail light on her car, which suggested that she had

1031
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:51.880
in fact backed into John and hit him. So was

1032
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:54.880
it possible that Karen hit him and then drove off.

1033
00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:58.519
But if that's the case, there were a total of

1034
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:01.039
twelve people. I haven't listen did every name because a

1035
01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:03.039
lot of them didn't really matter. But there was a

1036
01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:05.920
total of twelve people at the in law Albert's residence,

1037
01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:09.960
coming and going throughout the night, and none of them,

1038
01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:14.679
not one of them saw John outside when they left

1039
01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:20.800
that party. Not one saw John out there. So it's like, Okay,

1040
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.880
were they fighting? Were John and Karen fighting? No one

1041
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:28.320
ever said that they were fighting. You know, Karen had

1042
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:31.320
said we had a disagreement about the kids. But there

1043
01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:34.159
was no fighting. There was no none of that. So

1044
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:37.800
the police decided to look at Karen's vehicle. When they

1045
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.480
did that, that's when they took possession of her Lexus

1046
01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:44.000
SUV and they impounded it at the Canton Police Department

1047
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:48.039
in their sally port as evidence. Now, when the vehicle

1048
01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:52.239
first got there, it was not photographed when it got

1049
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:56.320
to the Sallyport, but they did want to get to

1050
01:00:56.400 --> 01:01:01.440
work removing the tail light in question. So when this

1051
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:04.360
they go to remove the tail light. They start having

1052
01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:06.639
a lot of trouble getting the tail light out of

1053
01:01:06.679 --> 01:01:09.119
the I'm gonna call it a socket. I don't know vehicles, Jim.

1054
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:16.719
What's it called a tail light, whole, socket, vestibule, whatever

1055
01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:19.199
it is. Okay, So they're trying to get the light out.

1056
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:22.840
They're having trouble doing that. So that's when Lieutenant Gallagher,

1057
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:24.679
the guy with the tent, the one that did all

1058
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:27.960
the evidence collection on the scene, he called over another

1059
01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:31.400
Canton Police Department officer. This is the guy that worked

1060
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:33.760
on their fleet vehicles. It was like their fleet maintenance guy,

1061
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:36.159
and he said he can probably assist you in getting

1062
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:39.480
the light out of the vehicle. Regardless of all of that,

1063
01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:43.000
police believed that they had pieced together what happened. After

1064
01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.400
a night of drunken partying. Karen brought John to the

1065
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:48.320
in law Albert's. I said John, like, I'm from Boston.

1066
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:50.360
I almost had a Boston accent there. I can't nail

1067
01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:52.559
that one. But they say John different than I do.

1068
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:55.679
I'm like Dan, all right, But Karen brought John to

1069
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:58.880
the in law's Albert's home. They must have gotten into

1070
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:01.400
an argument. She said they were arguing at one point

1071
01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:03.639
and so she backed over him in a fit of

1072
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:07.719
drunken rage. So a few days after John died on

1073
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:13.440
February first, to be specific, new neighbor Jen McCabe contacted

1074
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:18.039
investigators to tell them something else that she forgot to

1075
01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:24.079
tell them. She now remembered that Karen had asked her

1076
01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:29.960
to google something that morning when they found John. Specifically,

1077
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:34.079
Jen told these investigators Karen asked her to google how

1078
01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:37.480
long do you have to be left outside to die

1079
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:43.400
from hypothermia? Now, this is rather huge, considering John had

1080
01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:50.599
been left outside and indeed did die from complications including hypothermia.

1081
01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:56.880
This though, after already being questioned and everything that's already

1082
01:02:56.920 --> 01:03:02.800
gone on, she forgot that she googled how long before

1083
01:03:02.840 --> 01:03:06.920
someone dies in the cold of hypothermia? You'd forgot that?

1084
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:11.119
That seems huge considering what all was going on. But

1085
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:14.920
investigators added that to the other working theory that they have.

1086
01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:17.639
They felt like they had enough, and they in fact

1087
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:21.519
arrested Karen Reid that same day, on February first. They

1088
01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:24.639
charged her with manslaughter. They charged her with leaving the

1089
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:27.440
scene of a motor vehicle collision causing death and a

1090
01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:31.800
motor vehicle homicide. The next day, she had formally pled

1091
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:35.360
not guilty, and she posted a fifty thousand dollars bond.

1092
01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:41.320
That seems clean cut, doesn't it? Some questions? But clean cut? Well,

1093
01:03:41.320 --> 01:03:44.039
this is where I have to give you some more information. Remember,

1094
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:48.239
the crime scene at this point had already been processed.

1095
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:53.440
The snowblower, the cups of bloody snow, all of that

1096
01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:59.239
had already been done well around five thirty that evening.

1097
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:04.079
The Massachusetts State Police, they have a special emergency response team,

1098
01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:09.159
they went back to the scene to go process it,

1099
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:14.360
even though it had already been processed, and there when

1100
01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:18.320
they got there they would be able to find a

1101
01:04:18.360 --> 01:04:22.760
bunch of evidence that nobody found. They found two red

1102
01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:27.880
plastic tail light pieces, they found one clear plastic tail

1103
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:33.480
light piece, and they found a Nike shoe matching the

1104
01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:37.800
one that John was wearing whenever he was found. This

1105
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:41.159
is awesome, right, that's great. The more evidence the better, right,

1106
01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:45.639
Except for the fact that the scene had already been processed,

1107
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:52.480
the snowblower, the area was photographed, nobody found anything, and

1108
01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:55.719
it kind of begs the question, how did no one

1109
01:04:55.800 --> 01:05:00.320
else ever see that evidence? It had been snowing. Also

1110
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:04.400
since at least midnight The night before when John was

1111
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:08.559
believed to be injured. So the evidence that Massachusetts State

1112
01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:13.480
Police found was on top of the snow. This is

1113
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:17.440
evidence that no one had seen. No responders had seen

1114
01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:20.800
any of this, broken tail light pieces, no Canton PD

1115
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:24.440
had ever seen any of this, the shoe, none of it.

1116
01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:29.159
Nobody found any of that. So something at this point

1117
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:32.480
seems kind of sketched to the average joe, including me,

1118
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.280
and I'm thinking you as you listen to this. So

1119
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:42.400
February third, Trooper Proctor from the State Police he alleges

1120
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:47.760
he finds more plastic light pieces at the scene. This

1121
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:53.480
is the next day, February fourth, the day after that,

1122
01:05:54.840 --> 01:06:00.559
the Canton Police chief, his name is Kenneth Berkowitz, he

1123
01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:05.639
allegedly finds more plastic pieces resembling tail lights on the

1124
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:12.320
street outside of the in law Albert residence. So this

1125
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.760
is where this is kind of confusing. The crime scene

1126
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:19.639
was processed, nobody found anything, nothing. Then hours later that

1127
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:24.400
night or evening, State police all of a sudden finds

1128
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:28.159
more evidence, and then they find more evidence, and then

1129
01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:31.280
the former police chief or the police chief who, by

1130
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:35.199
the way, Canton had already recused themselves from the investigation Remember,

1131
01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:38.400
because of the brother being involved, Canton had recused themselves.

1132
01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:41.719
And now the police chief of Canton's finding police evidence.

1133
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.920
What is that about. That's not even that's not what

1134
01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:49.920
you're involved in doing. So I don't know something about

1135
01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:54.119
that seems just really strange. All of this plus so

1136
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:58.360
much more guys has yet to be uncovered, has yet

1137
01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:02.199
to be uncovered yet. Karen Reid has already been charged

1138
01:07:02.639 --> 01:07:06.599
with the death of John. Now, remember Trooper Proctor with

1139
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:10.079
the State Police was the lead investigator. Now in this case,

1140
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:16.400
his supervisor was that Sergeant Buchanic. You're a Buchanic, Okay, Well,

1141
01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:21.400
Sergeant Buchanic decided to call the Medical Examiner's office to

1142
01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:25.280
get some insight to John's injuries. This was the morning

1143
01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:27.639
of John, right after he died. Okay, so I know

1144
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:29.360
I'm kind of going all over the place here. But

1145
01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:33.039
on January twenty ninth, the morning of John's death, at

1146
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:38.000
ten forty one am, Sergeant Buchanic he called and spoke

1147
01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.000
to the Medical Examiner's office and he advised them that

1148
01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:43.280
John may have been hit in the face with a

1149
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:47.679
cocktail glass and he may have been in a physical confrontation.

1150
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:51.079
Just as a point of reference for them as they're

1151
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:54.920
doing the autopsy on John O'Keeffe. Well, when the autopsy

1152
01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:57.559
results would come back. They are interesting to say the

1153
01:07:57.639 --> 01:08:02.480
least because based on the medical examiners autopsy of John O'Keefe,

1154
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.000
these were the findings and opinions that were presented. The

1155
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:09.400
cause of death of John was blunt impact injuries or

1156
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:12.599
blunt force injuries to the head and hypothermia, which was

1157
01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:16.800
a complication with blunt impact injuries being the primary cause

1158
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.800
of his death. His head injuries were significant. They included

1159
01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:25.680
a laceration on the back of the head, skull fractures,

1160
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.079
and bleeding on the brain. He had other head and

1161
01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:34.520
facial injuries, including elaceration on his eyelid. He had abrasions

1162
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:38.359
on his nose, and he had swelling around the eyes.

1163
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:42.000
They noted that his body temperature was very low whenever

1164
01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:44.279
he came to the hospital and that's why they thought

1165
01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.239
hypothermia contributed to his death, but it was unclear whether

1166
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:50.840
the hypothermia would have been fatal on its own or not.

1167
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:54.720
Other injuries that were noted now, there were injuries on

1168
01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:56.520
his arm. Those are the ones that I had told

1169
01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:01.239
you about, his hands and his knee, He also had

1170
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:05.079
rib fractures. The medical examiner's opinion, though, was that this

1171
01:09:05.159 --> 01:09:07.840
might have been from resuscitation efforts on him when they

1172
01:09:07.840 --> 01:09:11.560
were doing CPR. The toxicology showed he did have alcohol

1173
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.279
in his system, he had no prescription or illicit drugs

1174
01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:16.920
whatsoever in his system. So the overall opinion of the

1175
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:24.000
medical examiner was the manner of death was undetermined. They

1176
01:09:24.039 --> 01:09:27.159
didn't feel like they knew what exactly had happened to

1177
01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:31.479
him because they had a lack of compelling evidence. The

1178
01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:35.520
head injury was consistent with falling backward onto a hard

1179
01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:40.159
surface like frozen ground, but other causes could have done

1180
01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:44.199
this too, like broken glass or being hit with a

1181
01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:48.159
baseball bat, something along those lines. The other thing here

1182
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:52.239
is that while hypothermia was noted, there was hemorrhaging in

1183
01:09:52.279 --> 01:09:57.439
his pancreas and there was hemorrhaging in his stomach, which

1184
01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:01.359
again they didn't know if we suscitation had caused that

1185
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:04.399
type of injury or if something else had. But what

1186
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:08.960
they overall found was there was no evidence of a

1187
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:13.840
motor vehicle impact on John O'Keeffe's legs that would have

1188
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:17.640
been expected if he had been slammed into by an SUV.

1189
01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:22.600
There were no impact from a vehicle on the legs. Basically,

1190
01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:25.000
the medical examiner didn't think John had been hit by

1191
01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:29.880
a car. So looking at the wounds, which I've posted

1192
01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:32.479
on patreons, you can look at him. I swear to you,

1193
01:10:33.720 --> 01:10:36.760
they look like a dog attack. They look like a

1194
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:40.399
dog attacked him. It does not look like a vehicle

1195
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:42.000
hit him. So I want you to hear me out.

1196
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:44.680
And I did a ton of research on this, even

1197
01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:46.720
though I'm not gonna take much time, but I took

1198
01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:48.720
a ton of I did a ton of research on

1199
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:52.760
dog attacks, and overall, this is what experts on dog

1200
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:58.239
attacks put number one. Dogs that are attacking to kill somebody,

1201
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:03.439
they usually go for the throat, the head, or the face.

1202
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:08.439
It's different than dogs that are acting more in like

1203
01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:12.760
defensive purposes. When they're going for defensive purposes, like they're

1204
01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:15.760
alarmed and they're scared and they're trying to like get something,

1205
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:18.399
someone to get back or something, they tend to go

1206
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:22.800
for the butt or the extremities. And when they do that,

1207
01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:26.720
they tend to shake their heads back and forth, which

1208
01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:31.079
will tear the skins off in strips. Now, keeping that

1209
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:35.520
in mind, I was curious. What if a body was

1210
01:11:35.560 --> 01:11:41.800
out in snow and a dog came upon that body

1211
01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:45.840
in the snow or sniffed and smelled that body down

1212
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:50.479
in the snow. Well, they addressed that in this In

1213
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:54.159
this document, I was reading dogs that find somebody okay,

1214
01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:56.760
and they're trying to rouse that person, or they're trying

1215
01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:01.000
to wake them up or alert them. Dogs will often

1216
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:05.000
dig and scratch at a person, and they even tend

1217
01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:09.079
to bite. At times. They'll bite out of either excitement

1218
01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:13.039
or nervousness, but they'll scratch and then they'll bite, and

1219
01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:16.840
they also will lick at those wounds on the person.

1220
01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:20.279
This is the common behavior. There's not a lot of

1221
01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.039
bleeding when they do this type. It's not like a

1222
01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:26.800
shred and tear type thing, and it's more of trying

1223
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:29.520
to get the person to move or wake up. And

1224
01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:32.039
what was interesting to me about that was that everyone

1225
01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:35.600
that responded to John said that his wounds on his arms,

1226
01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:38.119
which I'm telling you, look like a dog attack. They

1227
01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:42.279
weren't bleeding excessively either, So why do I bring this up?

1228
01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:48.800
Surely it wouldn't matter at all except for the fact

1229
01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:53.239
that the in law, Alberts, owned a German shepherd known

1230
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:57.520
for biting people. And y'all know all of animals, Okay,

1231
01:12:57.560 --> 01:13:00.279
but I have to bring miss Chloe up. I have

1232
01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:03.399
to talk about her. Chloe was a German Shepherd mix.

1233
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.720
She was a big dog. She was seventy pounds or so,

1234
01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:09.920
so she's big. And she was home with them the

1235
01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:13.760
night of John's death. But this was never really looked into.

1236
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:18.159
Even when the medical examiner did not agree that John

1237
01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:21.359
had been hit by a car, it was never looked into.

1238
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:26.039
It was really starting to look like the police may

1239
01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:28.920
have had blinders on as to the reality of what

1240
01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:35.960
actually caused John's death. Supervisor Buchanic okay with the Say police.

1241
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:40.720
He never conducted a search of the Albert's home ever.

1242
01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:47.520
Matter of fact, no one searched the Albert home. Nobody,

1243
01:13:48.279 --> 01:13:51.359
even though there was a link between in law Albert

1244
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:53.680
Brian and all of them being out drinking with the

1245
01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:57.359
very guy that was dead in their front yard. That's

1246
01:13:57.520 --> 01:14:03.359
piss poor work police work right there, to say the least,

1247
01:14:03.720 --> 01:14:07.439
no one even looked into it. The only interviews that

1248
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:11.800
were done between Buchanic and Michael Proctor, who was the

1249
01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:16.000
lead investigator. They talked to Jennifer and Matt McCabe, which

1250
01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:20.279
are the new neighbors, and they spoke to Brian Albert

1251
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:22.840
in law Brian Albert the homeowner where John was found.

1252
01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:26.399
But hear me out where they interviewed them. Is interesting

1253
01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:30.199
because while they were interviewing the mccabs guests who showed

1254
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:35.680
up at their house during this police interview. Brian in

1255
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:40.399
law Brian the homeowner showed up during the police interview.

1256
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:47.439
They never separated any of them. They're all related, you

1257
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.000
understand this, They're in laws of each other, and they

1258
01:14:51.079 --> 01:14:54.720
never separated them to get a story from them independently.

1259
01:14:55.039 --> 01:14:58.680
It is extremely strange to have extra witnesses or potential

1260
01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:01.600
witnesses i e. They could also be potential suspects. If

1261
01:15:01.640 --> 01:15:04.800
you're being objective, it's really weird to have that extra

1262
01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:09.199
witness show up and then stay and listen to other

1263
01:15:09.319 --> 01:15:15.960
potential witnesses i e. They could also be suspects explain themselves.

1264
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:19.600
Especially if you're of any intelligence, you know that people

1265
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:21.920
will lie if they if they feel like they need

1266
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:24.720
to save themselves. So, if you're being objective and open

1267
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.880
minded to all possibilities, what could have happened to John

1268
01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:29.880
and you're listening to the medical examiner say he was

1269
01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:34.279
not hit by a car. Then this is very compromising

1270
01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:38.680
to this case, extremely compromising. It was after that that

1271
01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:42.439
they went and they talked to Karen Reid. So he

1272
01:15:42.520 --> 01:15:45.960
and Proctor then went to the hospital at some point

1273
01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:49.840
and they collected John's clothing from the hospital as evidence.

1274
01:15:50.119 --> 01:15:53.199
Around ten pm that night that John had died, they

1275
01:15:53.239 --> 01:15:56.479
brought that clothing to the police department and they hung

1276
01:15:56.520 --> 01:15:58.159
it up or laid it out to dry in a

1277
01:15:58.199 --> 01:16:00.760
special room. Everyone didn't have access to it. You had

1278
01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:02.760
to have special key card access to get to it.

1279
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:07.039
Regardless of all of that, though, Karen had already been charged,

1280
01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:12.000
so while she's preparing for trial, her defense team is

1281
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:15.239
kind of starting to have some questions about this case

1282
01:16:15.279 --> 01:16:19.520
as it's laying out. For example, why was all of

1283
01:16:19.560 --> 01:16:23.159
that evidence that was found later on that was found

1284
01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:26.600
those days after in February, after John died. Would you

1285
01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:30.439
be interested to know that there were no reports written

1286
01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:37.840
on it, none until November of twenty twenty three. Why

1287
01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:40.520
would you The purpose of a report is to document

1288
01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:44.880
everything as it is, as it was, so you're fresh,

1289
01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:47.279
you don't have to memorize all of this. It's why

1290
01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:50.039
you write a report. Why would you wait from February

1291
01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:56.239
to November to write reports on evidence found? Seems sus

1292
01:16:56.319 --> 01:17:00.560
as the kids would say. So far, I've told you

1293
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:03.560
that state police interrogated everyone in the in law Albert

1294
01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:06.920
home as part of the investigation, but something else would

1295
01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:10.880
also be realized. What if I told you that a

1296
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:17.560
Canton police officer had interviewed them all and by himself,

1297
01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:24.279
before any formal interviews were done, and that meeting wasn't

1298
01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:30.199
documented nor recorded. Okay, some mistakes maybe were made here.

1299
01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.520
I mean, it's a Canton p D officer in questioning

1300
01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:38.079
a Canton police officer in his home, and he never

1301
01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:41.079
told anybody much about it, and it wasn't written down,

1302
01:17:41.119 --> 01:17:44.600
it wasn't recorded, and it was before the official interrogation

1303
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:48.000
of state police. Why would he do that they had

1304
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:51.840
recused themselves at some point? Anyway? Well, what if that

1305
01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:55.279
very Canton officer that I'm discussing, his name is Sergeant Lank.

1306
01:17:56.000 --> 01:17:58.239
What if you then found out that that guy, that

1307
01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:03.279
officer was very close friends with the in law Alberts,

1308
01:18:03.319 --> 01:18:06.720
but would tell everyone who asked that he didn't know them.

1309
01:18:07.319 --> 01:18:11.560
It was merely professional. Oh and by the way, he

1310
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:15.640
was also good friends with the mccabs, the new neighbor mccabs.

1311
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:19.279
You know Jen who found the body, who is the

1312
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:21.840
sister in law and sister of the in law Alberts,

1313
01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:26.479
but he tells everyone that they're not. Also, what special

1314
01:18:26.520 --> 01:18:30.600
interest in Karen Reid's ass did State Trooper Proctor have

1315
01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:33.319
and how would that come into play in this case

1316
01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:37.880
about murder proc proctology. I don't know why would Karen

1317
01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:43.640
Reid's ass play any role in a murder investigation? Also,

1318
01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:47.600
what if it's now realized that Karen left some less

1319
01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:51.520
than savory voicemails on John's phone after she left the

1320
01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:54.960
in law Albert's house because I thought they weren't really fighting,

1321
01:18:56.479 --> 01:18:58.680
but now there's a lot of arguing, And was there

1322
01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:04.279
possibly another man that works for law enforcement involved with Karen?

1323
01:19:05.239 --> 01:19:08.920
All of this had yet to even be found. If

1324
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:11.760
you have more questions than answers about this episode that

1325
01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:14.359
I just gave you, then welcome to why this case

1326
01:19:14.439 --> 01:19:16.840
is so huge in the current news and in the

1327
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:20.680
final episode next week, I'm gonna tie it all up

1328
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:26.119
with a pretty messy bo for you. A lot of

1329
01:19:26.119 --> 01:19:28.960
people started wondering if maybe there was a cover up

1330
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:31.159
going on in canon and I'd have to say to

1331
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:34.800
this point there was a lot of problematic behavior all

1332
01:19:34.840 --> 01:19:38.279
around this investigation. For now, all I can say is

1333
01:19:38.279 --> 01:19:42.039
that justice is meant to be blind, okay, and in

1334
01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:46.000
this case, apparently deaf, dumb, and really good at manipulating

1335
01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:49.279
camera footage. I don't know, though, maybe the police misheard,

1336
01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:52.880
because serve and protect really does sound similar to lie

1337
01:19:52.920 --> 01:20:04.199
and deflect.