NOT FRAGILE LIKE A FLOWER...LIKE A BOMB.
Sept. 29, 2026

Part Two | Hung Jury: The Lindsey Clancy Case

Part Two | Hung Jury: The Lindsey Clancy Case
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Season 12

On January 24, 2023, in Duxbury, Massachusetts, labor-and-delivery nurse Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children—Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and eight-month-old Callan—then jumped from a second-story window. She survived, paralyzed. Her husband, Patrick, came home from errands she had sent him on and found the house silent. Clancy has never denied killing her children.

The fight in court was over why. Her defense said she was in the grip of postpartum psychosis: delusions, a voice telling her she had no choice, and a mind so broken she could not form criminal intent. Prosecutors said the day was planned. She had taken the kids to the doctor, played with them in the snow, gotten her husband out of the house, and—they argued—knew exactly what she was doing. The 2026 trial in Plymouth lasted weeks. Patrick Clancy, who had once asked the public to see “the real Lindsay,” took the stand for the state. Jurors heard the 911 call, hospital statements, medication history, and dueling psychiatric experts. After seven days of deliberations they could not agree. Eleven jurors were prepared to find her not criminally responsible. One holdout, Michael Desronvil, said he had no doubt she acted deliberately. The judge declared a mistrial

Content warning: This episode discusses the deaths of young children, suicide attempt, and severe mental illness. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Timestamps:
04:31 Lindsay’s Early Life
10:41 Patrick Enters the Story
15:51 Marriage and First Baby
18:39 Motherhood and Family Life
23:33 Cora Becomes Big Sister
36:32 Callan Arrives
39:26 The Family Home
43:39 Daycare Adjustments
47:12 Lindsay’s Struggles
49:42 A Darker Turn

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering, how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil,

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many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable is intended for

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mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not

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your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Okay, Jay, you're back

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with another episode of Unspeakable. How's it going this week?

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I know you've been waiting for part two of this

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whole Clancy saga, and I've got a bunch for you today.

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But before I start, I do have some shout outs,

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and I want to say hello all the way in

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Dauphin Island, Alabama to Emily Vaughn. What's going on, Emily?

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You joined my crime family, and I'm so excited. So

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I'm waving to you on the camera. Hey, girl, how

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are you? Thank you so much. I appreciate all of

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your support, everybody, including this is Ray Weems in Spokane Valley, Washington. Hey,

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how's it going over there? I hope that you're having

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a wonderful week. Tell all your friends that I'm waving

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at you and I'm giving you your shout out. And

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I appreciate your support as well. And then last but

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certainly not least, we're just going to go right down

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the road to Hammond, Louisiana, where Tina Wagner is. What

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is going on, Tina? How are you doing over in

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them parts? Got a lot of family over there. We

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probably have some of the same, know some of the

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same people. So I'm waving to you. Thank you so

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much for supporting me. And of course, I'll have more

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shout outs in the upcoming episodes. If I didn't get

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to you, hang in there. If you want your shout out, remember,

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that's for the crime family level. There's multiple levels. Make

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sure you get the right the right level. Now, a

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couple of announcements. I don't want you to forget, I

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will be at Fall Fest right here in Denham Springs, Louisiana.

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It's October the 3rd. I'll have a booth. I'll have merch.

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I'll sign whatever you want me to sign. We could

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take a picture. It's going to be wonderful. And then

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I also want to remind you that Jimothy and I,

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producer Jimothy and I have another show. It's called Crime

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Wire Weekly. And if you're on Patreon, you've been seeing

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that already. We post those videos for you, but you

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can also go follow that show on any of your

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listening platforms. follow and it's going to have more of

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our up to date crime true crime that's happening each week.

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And we talk about that and we have a good time.

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Let's also talk about the fact that quarterly gifts are

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about to be mailed out as the time that you're

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hearing this. And I please I'm begging you, please, please, please,

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if you are in my crime family, for sure. Make

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sure that your address on patreon.com is up to date

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because I once I mail out your item, it's going

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to go to whatever address you have on file, it's

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pretty simple to change it, you just log in, you

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click settings, you click account, and then it says edit address,

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and you just put in the updated address. Before I

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go into the like main intro of this episode, I

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want to remind everybody of something, okay? While this podcast

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is going to cover horrific things, right, and we're going

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to talk about difficult topics, I want us all to

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remember that we're all friends here. Everybody that listens to

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this show has a vested interest in these cases and

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appreciates hearing the story. So I want to make sure

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that y'all know that we're not all going to agree.

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We're all going to be a totality of our circumstances

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and our experiences. And so we can all listen to

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the same thing, watch the same thing and come out

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with different ideas about what happened. That's okay. It is

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okay for us to disagree. What's not okay is is

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for us to not hear all the information, to absorb everything,

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to see what all is out there in these cases,

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and then we can all come to our own opinions.

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But I am not going to be in the business

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of avoidance just because it makes people uncomfortable. That's not me.

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Let's talk about these cases and let's enjoy each other's

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company in the process. So that said, this is part

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two of the Lindsay Clancy saga. So if you have

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not listened to part one, Spoiler alert, I'm about to

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jump into the middle of it, so go back and

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listen now. But where we left off last week was

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with the Clancy family having grown from a family of

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two to now a family of five. And by 2022...

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Patrick and Lindsay were well into the what I like

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to call hurricane years of raising their young children. People

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are busy with work and family and schedules. And Lindsay

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was just having a really hard time adjusting to her

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role as a mother of three children. Her mood was

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even more expressive because she had started to really vocalize.

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She was struggling emotionally and she felt like she was

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just like in this mental state that just wasn't her.

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exhaustion had also become one of her most pressing issues,

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I would argue, because she just could not sleep. Her

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mind would continue to roll and she would worry even

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when the house was quiet and everybody was in bed

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and asleep. This crippling anxiety would creep into her mind

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and she would worry constantly that something was going to

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happen to her children. But why she was feeling this

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So intensely, she just didn't know. She couldn't put her

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finger on it. And before she knew it, the sun

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was coming up, and she hadn't had a wink of

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sleep before the next day was right back in her face. Callan,

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the youngest of the three... He'd be crying for milk,

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but he wasn't wanting to take a bottle. He was

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not transitioning easily from the breast to the bottle. And

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then the older two are running around just like kids do.

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Nothing wrong with it. Just being wild, crazy little ones.

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And although Lindsay was experiencing distress more than usual, she

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still kept up appearances on Facebook, on social media. She

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was consistently posting wonderful, loving photos of her family together.

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There'd be pictures of Lindsay cuddling up with her babies

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on the back patio of the house, big smiles, family

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time together. And every photo showed the image of a

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family that loves one another and wants to be around

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one another. She was documenting the first day of preschool

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and vacations and everything that we as a society are

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used to seeing of a committed and happy family in

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today's social media world. And the same month that Callan

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had been born, Lindsay was becoming more and more frustrated

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with two-year-old Dawson. And she loved her little baby, but dang,

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he was just really hard for her in terms of behavior.

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I want to be clear, though, he was not bad

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by any means. He wasn't a bad kid. He was little.

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He was a two-year-old. He was just a strong-willed little fella.

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He got off task really easily. And venting, as well

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as looking for help online with this, Lindsay posted something

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like a question in an online group on May the 5th. Now,

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this group was called Attachment Parenting for Littles. And this

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is what her post read. And I'm going to read

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it to you word for word. I'm not ad-libbing anything.

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She wrote on May the 5th. Hello, lovely parents. I'm

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looking for some advice, solidarity, ideas, something, anything. Anything. I

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am truly finding my 19-month-old to be the most difficult

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human I have ever encountered. I mean that with all

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of the love in my heart, but I honestly cannot

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make it through a day without getting so frustrated with him.

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He is not my first child, so no, not to

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compare because I know that every child is different, but

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just for background, this is not my first rodeo. Every

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single day. thing with him is a battle. And it

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has been this way for a while since he was

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maybe eight months old. I really try to pick my

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battles and only do what's completely necessary. But I mean everything,

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getting out of his crib in the morning and going downstairs,

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changing his diaper, getting him dressed, getting him in his

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seat to eat. getting him in the car seat, getting

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him out of the car seat, putting on his jacket

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and shoes to go outside, having him come inside when

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it's time, going to sleep for his nap and at night.

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He fights me every step of the way with all

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of these very normal daily activities. It constantly feels like

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I have to force him to do the things or

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to do these things, which feels so wrong, but he's

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always fighting me and crying about doing these very normal things.

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So people did respond because this was a parenting group

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and people were giving their advice. And I'm not sure

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exactly what this person had responded and said, honestly, but

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Lindsay did respond to that woman's suggestion. And she wrote, quote,

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I was so against it as well. With my first,

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we never did any sleep training at all. And she

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didn't sleep through the night even or ever until 15 months.

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And even after that, it was still hit or miss.

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When my second started waking up every 45 minutes the

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entire night when he was three and a half months old,

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I knew we needed to help him sleep better because

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we couldn't survive like that. We didn't start sleep training

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until four and a half months, but it honestly was

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not as bad as I thought it would be at all.

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Before training, he would either fall asleep nursing or rocking,

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so part of the sleep training was to get him

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to fall asleep in his crib. I did this by

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putting him in his crib and staying right with him,

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talking to him, to him, rubbing his back, et cetera,

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until he fell asleep. And then she did say a

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little bit more talking about how he cried the first time,

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but it did get better. So people, of course, had

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their own suggestions and Lindsay was responding. But those are

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her own words, and you can tell. You can tell

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in the way she worded this. Lindsay was frustrated, but

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she was still actively trying to fix something somewhere. Dawson

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was just a handful. Now, friends would stop by, ones

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such as Andrea Hennigan, who had worked with Lindsay for

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nearly seven years at the hospital. So they had been

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friends for a while, and Andrea was excited to see

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the new baby and She spent nearly two hours soaking

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in all of little Callan's newness and his cuddles. And

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she smiled, looking him over and looking at his little features,

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his tiny toes and his really chubby cheeks. He was

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just so small and warm and delicate. And Lindsay was

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happy to have somebody come over and to talk. While

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they were having their interactions, Andre didn't notice anything out

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of the ordinary. And Their visit was just wonderful. It

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was good to see her. She was so happy for

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the Clancy's new addition, but she was also excited for

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whenever her friend was going to be returning back to

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work so they could get back to their typical shenanigans

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on that birthing unit in the night shift. So two

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months later... Baby Callan obviously is now two months old.

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So he's still a new fella and he's adjusting to

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this world. Basically eat, sleep, poop, cry. You know, he

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was busy. He was doing all the baby things, respectfully

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that is, because he was a good little baby and

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he was doing everything that he was supposed to be doing.

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So realizing that more help may be a good thing

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Patrick and Lindsay had a discussion and they agreed, you know,

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getting a nanny might be something that would really help.

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And this would free Lindsay up to go back to

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work part time. But it would also give her some

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me time, if anything, time to get out by herself,

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maybe to go walk or or to exercise or whatever

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it is that she could do to kind of relax

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and get back in the groove. So they put an

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ad in on Facebook in July. They were looking for

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someone part-time and a woman by the name of Elaine

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Rossi answered that request or that ad. So they liked

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what they saw initially and they invited her over to

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the home and they wanted to interview her in person.

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They wanted her to get to meet the children and

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they could kind of talk and evaluate and discuss the expectations.

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So when Elaine arrived, the Clancy's noticed that she was

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older than they were and her calm but experienced nature

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was something that made them kind of like her from

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the jump. She had really pretty black hair. It was

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just past her shoulders and she would curl it in

225
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these big barrel curls, really nicely done. She had bangs

226
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that would swoop down just above one eye, a very

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strong jaw, these kind greenish brown eyes. And she wasn't,

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new to rearing children either. This was not her first

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rodeo either. She immediately took to the Clancy children too

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in that meeting. So the kids were playing a little

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bit outside. So they sat down and they had a

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discussion about expectations and pay. And once both sides agreed

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that this would be a good fit for everybody, the

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plan was simple. Lindsay would be going back to work

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part-time in October and Callan would was really going to

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be Elaine's main job whenever she was coming over. So

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Cora and Dawson were going to be in daycare at

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that Learning Sprouts, if you remember that from first episode.

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So Elaine would be working Monday, Tuesdays, and Thursdays from

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about 8.30 to 1 p.m. Now, Miss Elaine would very

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00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:07.200
quickly be lovingly known as Laney. And so the kids

242
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would call her that. And then eventually Patrick and Lindsay,

243
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.299
and Patrick went by Pat, so you might hear me

244
00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:15.990
call them both. But Pat and Lindsay, too, would eventually

245
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just start referring to her as Laney. And Elaine was

246
00:14:20.230 --> 00:14:24.269
really happy with this family as her employers. She thought

247
00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:26.870
that Lindsay was a wonderful mother, and it was clear

248
00:14:26.929 --> 00:14:30.740
to her that she cared very deeply for their children.

249
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She was an invested mom in their lives. So the

250
00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:37.490
other thing that she liked about Lindsay was that she

251
00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:41.580
wouldn't just jump up and dump the kids on Laney

252
00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:43.639
as soon as she arrived in the mornings. That's not

253
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:47.200
how it went. Lindsay had a notebook that she kept

254
00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.620
on the counter in the kitchen, and that was their

255
00:14:49.659 --> 00:14:53.789
communication method. So both women would kind of like write

256
00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:56.450
notes back and forth in that notebook to make sure

257
00:14:56.470 --> 00:14:59.210
that they kept up with everything and their comments to

258
00:14:59.289 --> 00:15:03.330
one another. Whenever Laney would arrive... it was kind of

259
00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:06.309
common that Lindsay would be downstairs in the basement and

260
00:15:06.370 --> 00:15:09.049
she would be working out already. So when Lainey would

261
00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.639
come in in the morning, she could just grab the notebook,

262
00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:14.820
check what was written, get a grasp of the day

263
00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:18.080
and what was needed of her. And then if Lindsay

264
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:20.559
wasn't there or they were in different parts of the

265
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.580
house or whatever, Lindsay would also text Lainey any information

266
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:26.960
that she needed to remind her of. So things like,

267
00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:30.379
please chop up the veggies into small bites for the kids.

268
00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:34.019
Callan needs to be awakened at 9.45 a.m. for his

269
00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:37.659
next bottle, but he's been struggling and fussy. Things like

270
00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:41.919
that were really what the communication was about in the notebook. Now,

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00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:45.220
Pat was still elbow deep in his work, but he

272
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.100
was noticing how his wife was still struggling. She was

273
00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:55.350
still not quite herself and he loved her. So he

274
00:15:55.490 --> 00:15:57.470
wanted to help her in any way that he could.

275
00:15:58.190 --> 00:16:02.539
But here's the thing. Patrick was not a mental health expert.

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00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:06.820
And his thoughts were that maybe she needed to reach

277
00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.460
out and seek help of someone that was more qualified

278
00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:14.500
to guide her professionally through all of her emotional issues

279
00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:18.139
that she was feeling. Callan had been born back in May.

280
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And so everyone expected that by October, Lindsay would be

281
00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:26.070
back to herself and and able to just jump back

282
00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:29.570
into work as they had planned so far. And while

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00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:32.690
this is not a science podcast, I acknowledge that, it

284
00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:35.789
is important, I think, to touch on what does a

285
00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:41.009
four to five month postpartum woman deal with physiologically, because

286
00:16:41.389 --> 00:16:44.789
there's a lot going on dependent on how your baby

287
00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:47.960
is being tended to. So while making a baby is

288
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:52.309
arguably relatively easy, Even an idiot can do it, right?

289
00:16:52.509 --> 00:16:56.289
Insert right here all the single mom or divorced mom comments.

290
00:16:57.190 --> 00:16:59.759
I'm giggling because this is your moment, right? You're welcome.

291
00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:02.100
It's easy to make a baby. It's hard to raise one,

292
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.410
especially all the single mamas out there. I'm kidding. Understanding

293
00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:11.869
the complexities of postpartum care and effects is more than

294
00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:14.569
I would think that the average man is probably keeping

295
00:17:14.630 --> 00:17:18.059
up with on his daily readings after their wife or

296
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.000
whatever has a kid. And Patrick Clancy was no different.

297
00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:24.960
But to humor those who maybe really don't know, let's

298
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.519
simplify it real quick. Things like cortisol and prolactin and

299
00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:34.009
your thyroid, all of that is still changing, or it

300
00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:37.569
can be, based on what is commonly referred to as

301
00:17:37.609 --> 00:17:40.730
the second hormone shift. And so what I mean here

302
00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:43.490
is that the immediate crash, we'll call it that, the

303
00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:47.190
immediate crash of delivery happens with a woman's body. We

304
00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:50.619
know this. But that's long over once you get into

305
00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:55.309
this second hormone shift. And This window of the second

306
00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:59.109
hormone shift is characterized by what we'll call a fork

307
00:17:59.569 --> 00:18:04.259
in the road, depending entirely or greatly, really, on how

308
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:10.180
you're feeding your baby. Breastfeeding versus bottle formula becomes really

309
00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:15.440
the central question here, because breastfeeding is more than just physical,

310
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.359
putting the baby to the breast. It's a dynamic process.

311
00:18:18.970 --> 00:18:22.559
biochemical process. And any woman who's had a baby will

312
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.339
tell you that when your baby starts crying, it literally

313
00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:29.299
makes your milk drop. And when the baby latches, it

314
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:34.170
releases hormones in your body, it releases happiness, dopamine, you

315
00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:37.720
get a pleasure sense when your baby is feeding. And

316
00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:41.299
Lindsay knew this and she wanted this to happen because

317
00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:44.740
that is what creates this bond that you want to

318
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.740
feed your baby. It's this very deep bonding moment. Lindsay

319
00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:52.349
desperately wanted that feeling with baby Callan and she believed

320
00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:55.210
that was gonna happen through breastfeeding. That was the key

321
00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:58.490
to this process. But at that same time that she

322
00:18:58.529 --> 00:19:03.000
was wanting this, her mental health was continuing to just

323
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:07.519
not improve. She was so aware of this that she

324
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.259
started to wonder, is medicine the proper route for me

325
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.940
to go? She did not want to be dependent on

326
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.299
medications to be normal, quote unquote, but she desperately wanted

327
00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:21.140
to feel better. And even Patrick, I've told you this,

328
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.609
he was worried about her to the point that He

329
00:19:24.670 --> 00:19:27.430
even said, you know, maybe medicinal intervention is what we

330
00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:30.230
need temporarily so that you can just get back to

331
00:19:30.269 --> 00:19:34.400
where you need to be. So while her decline was obvious, OK,

332
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.339
it wasn't like a sharp drop off where one day

333
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.480
she was typical Lindsay and then she was just nuts

334
00:19:40.579 --> 00:19:43.349
the next minute. That's not how this was going. It

335
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:47.190
was a seemingly gradual decline, but one that over the

336
00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:52.279
months would become pretty obvious to everybody in her everyday life.

337
00:19:53.019 --> 00:19:55.859
She was making sense. She was caring for the children.

338
00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:59.980
Don't get it twisted, okay? But her intense sadness and

339
00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:04.480
depression was now combined with not sleeping, and this was

340
00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:09.019
just draining her constantly. And lack of sleep alone is

341
00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:13.039
enough to cause people problems, you know, just by itself.

342
00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:18.559
Even the Cleveland Clinic acknowledges that after 24 hours of

343
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.380
no sleep, some people will even start to experience tremors

344
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.049
and hallucinations, not to mention that someone who's already depressed

345
00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:29.930
will even be more depressed from their lack of sleep.

346
00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:33.220
And this is what Lindsay was experiencing. She was in

347
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.039
need of help as soon as possible because she was

348
00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:38.779
not coping well on her own. And it was now

349
00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:45.029
very clearly past the point of self-regulation and overcoming her situation.

350
00:20:46.029 --> 00:20:50.470
So she even started to open up to Lainey, the babysitter,

351
00:20:50.829 --> 00:20:54.150
and told her that, look, I'm suffering from postpartum depression.

352
00:20:54.230 --> 00:20:57.779
I can't sleep. And she kind of expressed her troubles.

353
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:03.420
And Lainey listened with compassion and promised that, In that,

354
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.369
to love the kids and to take good care of

355
00:21:06.430 --> 00:21:09.390
them and wanted Lindsay to know that you can rest

356
00:21:09.450 --> 00:21:12.329
in that promise from me. Your kids will be taken

357
00:21:12.369 --> 00:21:15.190
care of so long as they are in my care.

358
00:21:16.230 --> 00:21:20.089
And soon after this, Lainey was actually really excited because

359
00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:22.890
she got to send Lindsay a video she took of

360
00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:26.509
baby Callan suckling Lindsay. on a bottle. He was doing

361
00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:29.509
so good. Look how good he's doing, Mama. And she

362
00:21:29.549 --> 00:21:32.549
took a short little video. It was short. It was sweet.

363
00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:36.240
But Lainey was just really hoping in her soul that

364
00:21:36.339 --> 00:21:40.099
this would ease Lindsay's anxiety that day. Look, Mama, he's

365
00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:42.519
getting it. Okay, he's going to eat. It's going to

366
00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:46.670
be okay. So the days continued forward with the new routine.

367
00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:52.460
And Lindsay's mood was was seemingly stable, but certainly not herself, okay?

368
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.700
It just was kind of stable sadness, I guess if

369
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.839
you want to say. So exercise, music, walks, even dinners

370
00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:03.259
out with her girlfriends, that was happening, but none of

371
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:08.099
it was making a difference. And Patrick continued to be worried.

372
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:12.960
She was not suicidal or anything, but he wanted her happy.

373
00:22:13.809 --> 00:22:16.190
Can we just get a smile from you? I need

374
00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:19.039
you to cheer up. We've got to figure this out.

375
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:25.079
And then something happened in August that really caught Patrick's attention.

376
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.920
And that was when one of his favorite singers passed away.

377
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.640
We all know the pain of seeing someone that you

378
00:22:31.700 --> 00:22:34.990
admire like a celebrity when you see that they have died.

379
00:22:35.009 --> 00:22:36.549
I mean, hell, we all just went through that with

380
00:22:36.589 --> 00:22:39.710
the passing of Dolly. She just died as of this recording.

381
00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:43.930
And that hurt. A lot of people love Dolly. So

382
00:22:44.309 --> 00:22:48.480
Patrick loved Tom Hall. And so for my younger listeners

383
00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:51.099
who may not know him, I actually didn't know who

384
00:22:51.140 --> 00:22:53.019
he was until I read up and I was like, oh,

385
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:56.319
I know about that. But he is a member of

386
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:58.480
the Country Music Hall of Fame. And if you have

387
00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:01.500
ever heard the song Harper Valley PTA, I remember that

388
00:23:01.539 --> 00:23:03.440
song because my mom used to play it. He was

389
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:05.640
part of the writing of that song, which was a

390
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.349
huge hit. So Patrick himself was a musical guy. He

391
00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:14.910
played multiple instruments, including the guitar. So when Patrick was

392
00:23:14.950 --> 00:23:17.720
scrolling the internet and you read online that one of

393
00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:20.859
his musical favorites had died, he clicked on that link

394
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:25.500
to find out why. He's like, old age, probably, you know.

395
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.640
But he was very surprised when he learned that the

396
00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:33.509
85-year-old singer had died by suicide. And according to the

397
00:23:33.549 --> 00:23:38.849
medical examiner's report, He had sustained an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound.

398
00:23:39.650 --> 00:23:42.640
So Pat's like, whoa, that seems just so wild at

399
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.240
that age. But hey, y'all, everybody's going through something no

400
00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:49.339
matter your age. It does not matter how old you are.

401
00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:52.960
Everybody is going through something. And by the way, I

402
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:55.319
thought I'd add this just so you know. Did you

403
00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:58.579
know that suicide rates in the United States actually tend

404
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:03.099
to peak during late spring and the summer months, particularly

405
00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:08.789
May through August? Most people, including myself, I used to

406
00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:11.210
believe that wintertime would have been when that happened because

407
00:24:11.250 --> 00:24:14.480
I know like the seasonal effect on people and all

408
00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:17.559
of that. But the very recent studies, if you look

409
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.059
at them, say that's not the case. It's really towards

410
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:24.680
the end or towards the summer months. Depression is a bitch.

411
00:24:25.369 --> 00:24:27.890
And if it could overtake Tom Hall with all of

412
00:24:27.970 --> 00:24:32.289
his success in life, Lindsay's depressive state was concerning enough

413
00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:34.750
for Pat because that was his wife. And now look

414
00:24:34.769 --> 00:24:38.069
what's happening to people who arguably have been very successful

415
00:24:38.089 --> 00:24:41.549
and done very well in their lives. But Lindsay was

416
00:24:41.589 --> 00:24:45.289
continuing to go about her days. She never told anyone

417
00:24:45.349 --> 00:24:47.609
any feelings of wanting to die at this point in

418
00:24:47.630 --> 00:24:53.019
the story. So postpartum was something that he's like, hoping

419
00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:58.049
that's going to improve just with time. But when September

420
00:24:58.190 --> 00:25:01.950
of 2022 rolled around, Lindsay decided to take a real

421
00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:06.450
first step to getting help. And she went online and

422
00:25:06.529 --> 00:25:10.769
she found a place called Aster Mental Health. So this

423
00:25:10.829 --> 00:25:14.549
is a facility that specializes in mental health. And they

424
00:25:14.670 --> 00:25:17.470
also offered two types of appointments. You could go in

425
00:25:17.529 --> 00:25:20.009
person or you could choose to do it online, like

426
00:25:20.029 --> 00:25:23.619
through a telehealth type situation. So maybe you can't get

427
00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:25.119
up and get out of the house. Maybe you're just

428
00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:28.380
Can't get yourself to that point. Telehealth is there, but

429
00:25:28.420 --> 00:25:29.759
if you can and you can come in and you

430
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.720
want to, we'll see you that way as well. So

431
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:37.400
feeling good about what she was seeing, she decided that

432
00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:41.109
she was gonna fill out this pre-appointment paperwork online and

433
00:25:41.150 --> 00:25:43.990
she had opted for an appointment for September the 15th

434
00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:48.490
with a doctor named Dr. Jennifer Tufts. Now, why did

435
00:25:48.549 --> 00:25:51.890
she choose Dr. Tufts? Well, if you looked at her

436
00:25:51.930 --> 00:25:55.609
profile online, It said that Dr. Tufts' areas of specialty

437
00:25:55.650 --> 00:26:03.460
included PTSD, trauma-related disorders, mood disorders, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, substance abuse,

438
00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:07.200
a lot of things. But the main part was that Dr.

439
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:12.119
Tufts had a particular interest in women's mental health and

440
00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:19.130
perinatal psychiatry from pregnancy through two years postpartum. Well, that

441
00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:21.869
really resonated with Lindsay because that's what she felt was

442
00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:25.069
the issue. So as of this recording, I'll let you know,

443
00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:27.150
I went and looked and Dr. Tufts does have 4.8

444
00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:31.369
out of 5 star rating online, which is proof that

445
00:26:31.430 --> 00:26:34.970
patients believed in her abilities and her care. And Lindsay

446
00:26:35.009 --> 00:26:37.630
was satisfied too after all that she had read about

447
00:26:37.670 --> 00:26:41.869
this doctor. So her forms were reviewed by Dr. Tufts

448
00:26:41.930 --> 00:26:46.039
before their session began. And she noted before it even

449
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:51.049
began that she felt Lindsay's issues were being... As far

450
00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:55.390
as being self-reported by Lindsay on the forms, she felt

451
00:26:55.490 --> 00:26:58.420
that this was gonna be really more of a depression

452
00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:03.059
issue on top of maybe some postpartum, but really this

453
00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:08.059
was like a depression, anxiety issue. Lindsay specifically marked on

454
00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:14.569
her forms, depression, anxiety, racing thoughts, lack of sleep, and guilt.

455
00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:19.250
There was a section that asked about being suicidal or

456
00:27:19.329 --> 00:27:24.509
hearing voices. Lindsay checked no to both of those. The

457
00:27:24.630 --> 00:27:28.079
guilt that she checked yes about, Lindsay went more in

458
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:30.759
depth and she said that her guilt came from drinking

459
00:27:31.299 --> 00:27:34.059
five times a week. So drinking alcohol up to five

460
00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:36.140
times a week. I'm gonna give her the benefit of

461
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.329
the doubt here. I'm guessing that meant like a glass

462
00:27:39.369 --> 00:27:42.450
of wine with dinner or something along those lines. I

463
00:27:42.470 --> 00:27:45.170
don't know, okay? No one will know for sure except

464
00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:47.140
the people who were in that house but that's what

465
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.680
I'm guessing she meant here. Dr. Tufts did not mark

466
00:27:50.849 --> 00:27:53.869
that she believed that Lindsay was an alcoholic is what

467
00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:57.960
I'm trying to say. So her medical history was noted

468
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.319
as having had anxiety in the past. And she did

469
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.000
say that she had tried medication back while she was

470
00:28:04.059 --> 00:28:07.980
in nursing school. She put that she had tried Welbutrin

471
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:11.289
and Prozac. And she also noted that she had no

472
00:28:11.369 --> 00:28:14.690
side effects when she tried that. Now, later on, I

473
00:28:14.710 --> 00:28:17.950
would find out that that medication was supposed to be

474
00:28:18.309 --> 00:28:20.849
because they had to do public speaking in nursing school.

475
00:28:21.269 --> 00:28:23.849
And so she took that because of her extreme fear

476
00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:27.460
of public speaking. But she was not taking any of

477
00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.759
those meds any longer at this date and time. She

478
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.900
also said that she had no desire to hurt herself

479
00:28:35.259 --> 00:28:38.819
and no desire to hurt anyone else. No voices were

480
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:41.619
telling her to hurt anyone else. And she verified that

481
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.019
she was not a substance abuser. I wanted to tell

482
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:50.210
you all of that because that was Lindsay's own reporting

483
00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:54.849
of herself on the paperwork. Now, anybody who knew Lindsay...

484
00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:59.250
would agree that she was very against medication as a

485
00:28:59.369 --> 00:29:05.309
first line of defense for an issue, unless it was

486
00:29:05.569 --> 00:29:12.660
absolutely medically necessary. Of course, these questionnaires, while not all-inclusive,

487
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:17.720
do point in a direction of a diagnosis-based you know,

488
00:29:17.779 --> 00:29:22.740
possibility at first glance. But Dr. Tufts not only looked

489
00:29:22.779 --> 00:29:27.039
at Lindsay's answers, but she met with her before she

490
00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:29.339
would come up with what she thought would be the diagnosis.

491
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:31.980
The very first meeting that they had between the women

492
00:29:32.029 --> 00:29:36.650
was on that September 15th, and it lasted roughly an hour. Now,

493
00:29:36.789 --> 00:29:39.470
that is a longer meeting than is standard unless the

494
00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:43.359
patient asks for it, because that's like a lot of

495
00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:45.660
intake is done at that appointment. That's why it lasted

496
00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:47.960
that long. Of course, I don't want to bog you

497
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.200
down and bore you with the most minute of details.

498
00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.259
I mean, I can if you want it. If you

499
00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:55.119
want it, message me. I can bore you. I can

500
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.779
give you everything. But I don't want to do that.

501
00:29:57.859 --> 00:29:59.640
So what I'm going to say here is either you

502
00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:01.240
can trust me and what I'm telling you or you

503
00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:05.059
can go watch the trial and see see it for yourself.

504
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:08.369
It's up to you, America. Right. You do you exercise

505
00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:10.690
your free will. But I'm going to tell you what

506
00:30:11.089 --> 00:30:14.569
the overall findings were in these in these meetings. So

507
00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:19.690
that said, Lindsay was not considered to be manic. It

508
00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:22.450
was also noted that she was not in any type

509
00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:25.339
of psychosis. And it's important to tell you that this

510
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.960
is a standard practice to assess for. So it's not

511
00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:33.059
like they just were like, in hindsight, going, no, she's

512
00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:37.619
not in psychosis. They test for that in this meeting.

513
00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:42.319
So Kelly, how do they test for psychosis? Well, This

514
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.390
isn't something that's self-reported by the patient. They don't say,

515
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:49.609
are you in postpartum psychosis? And they say yes or no. No,

516
00:30:49.650 --> 00:30:54.410
because it's not going to be a patient-admitted thing. This

517
00:30:54.470 --> 00:30:58.160
is going to be a doctor observation of behavior combined

518
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.400
with the answers on the questionnaire. And so what is

519
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.380
the doctor looking for to make that determination? I think

520
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:09.190
that's something pretty interesting to know. And they're looking at

521
00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:13.269
things like speech patterns. They're looking for visual cues, such

522
00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:18.009
as someone who is disheveled, paranoid. They're disjointed in their

523
00:31:18.109 --> 00:31:22.170
thoughts or their talking. Just their talking doesn't make sense.

524
00:31:22.190 --> 00:31:26.660
It's disjointed. So the doctor's clinical notes said that this

525
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:32.000
was clearly not the case because Lindsay was attentive, aware, logical.

526
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:35.819
But Dr. Tufts did write that Lindsay was anxious, even

527
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.329
though Lindsay self-reported that her mood was okay. But the

528
00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:41.710
doctor was like, I think she's got more anxiety than

529
00:31:41.750 --> 00:31:44.910
just having an okay mood. So after the specifics of

530
00:31:44.970 --> 00:31:48.940
feelings and concerns were covered, Dr. Tufts and Lindsay had

531
00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:54.400
an in-depth discussion as for what were Lindsay's goals for

532
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:58.019
their sessions. What was Lindsay open to trying? Was there

533
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.279
anything that Lindsay was not open to trying? Because a

534
00:32:01.299 --> 00:32:04.069
doctor cannot force you to do something, guys. You have

535
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.549
free will, okay? And you can have boundaries. I don't

536
00:32:06.589 --> 00:32:07.990
want to do that. I do want to do this.

537
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.250
you know, it's a give and take. Lindsay was very

538
00:32:11.329 --> 00:32:14.450
clear to Dr. Tufts that she was apprehensive about being

539
00:32:14.490 --> 00:32:18.250
dependent on medication, and that since she was breastfeeding, she

540
00:32:18.289 --> 00:32:22.130
didn't want to stop doing that. So assessing all of

541
00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:25.150
this and taking it all into account, Dr. Tufts thought

542
00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:30.130
that medicine would actually be the best route at this point,

543
00:32:30.390 --> 00:32:33.950
but there were certainly other options that they could explore.

544
00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:39.680
So Lindsay was so consumed with anxiety about Callan not

545
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.609
eating and that her older children were becoming such a

546
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:47.369
challenge for her that that's why Dr. Tufts kind of

547
00:32:47.390 --> 00:32:51.470
came to that conclusion. So they discussed the best medication

548
00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:54.029
that would take her off of the edge, but not

549
00:32:54.069 --> 00:32:57.519
necessarily make her dependent and all of that. They looked

550
00:32:57.579 --> 00:33:00.720
at the pros and the cons of the drug Zoloft.

551
00:33:01.059 --> 00:33:06.680
Zoloft is a commonly prescribed SSRI drug for anxiety let's

552
00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:09.839
pause real quick let's side quest everyone has a different

553
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:13.309
opinion about zoloft everybody who's taken it has a different

554
00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:15.190
opinion on how it affects people this is one of

555
00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:17.809
those junctures in this podcast where i'm telling you we

556
00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:20.230
may not all agree because one person may have taken

557
00:33:20.289 --> 00:33:22.809
it and had side effects that another person didn't and

558
00:33:22.849 --> 00:33:24.930
that's part of our learning and understanding of all of

559
00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:28.759
this information right is that the totality of the circumstance

560
00:33:28.779 --> 00:33:33.759
here lindsay was reluctant to try it because she was

561
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:38.460
worried about the possible side effects. But the standard or

562
00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:43.359
the more common side effects that she was advised that

563
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:48.079
this drug had were really minimal. The reason I say

564
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:52.000
minimal is because it's not like the listed side effects

565
00:33:52.059 --> 00:33:55.059
are things like you're gonna run and jump off a bridge, okay?

566
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:01.269
They were things more like upset stomach, diarrhea, tired, things

567
00:34:01.329 --> 00:34:05.230
along those lines. So the other positive was that it's

568
00:34:05.410 --> 00:34:09.800
okay to breastfeed while you're taking Zoloft. So once all

569
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:15.340
of this was explained, Lindsay agreed to that prescription. That said, Dr.

570
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:20.690
Tufts prescribed the lowest dose possible, which was 25 milligrams.

571
00:34:21.389 --> 00:34:24.090
She told Lindsay for the first week, I want you

572
00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:27.269
to take 25 milligrams. I want to see how the

573
00:34:27.309 --> 00:34:30.789
effects are. if you feel like it's okay, then I

574
00:34:30.849 --> 00:34:36.469
want you to increase it to 50 milligrams the following week. Dr.

575
00:34:36.510 --> 00:34:39.570
Tufts also explained that this medicine was not going to

576
00:34:39.610 --> 00:34:43.269
be a cure-all and that additional therapy should be sought

577
00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:47.219
in conjunction with taking this medication. But if she chose

578
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.199
not to take the meds, that's okay too. She just

579
00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:53.119
needed to check back in with Dr. Tufts, update her

580
00:34:53.260 --> 00:34:56.719
about her decision, and they could go from there. Now,

581
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.429
it's important right here in this part of the story

582
00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:05.190
to also understand. Dr. Tufts is a psychiatrist. That means

583
00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:08.219
that she went to med school. She is a medical doctor.

584
00:35:08.469 --> 00:35:11.780
MD is after her name. She understands and has studied

585
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:15.639
the chemical components of medication. She has studied and understands

586
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.480
how they are metabolized, as well as their effects on

587
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:23.829
the body, and she can prescribe medication. The additional therapy

588
00:35:23.849 --> 00:35:28.289
is that Dr. Tufts was referring Lindsay to in conjunction

589
00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:32.369
with her help from this Dr. Tufts, the psychiatrist, was

590
00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:36.159
with what is a psychologist. And they're not the same thing.

591
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:38.679
And I think some people don't realize that. I know

592
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:41.119
a lot of us do, but I think some people don't.

593
00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:46.860
Psychologists are gonna have like PhD behind their name, not MD.

594
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.519
So they are professionals, no doubt. They're PhDs, they're doctors

595
00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:55.539
in their field. but they are more mind oriented. They

596
00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:00.750
cannot prescribe medications. And the psychologist goals are focused more

597
00:36:00.809 --> 00:36:06.030
on human behavior, thought patterns, and emotions. And this matters

598
00:36:06.369 --> 00:36:10.710
because their purposes and their goals are different and they

599
00:36:10.769 --> 00:36:15.829
are not duplicating. So Lindsay signed off on the informed

600
00:36:15.889 --> 00:36:19.110
consent paperwork stating at the end of this meeting that

601
00:36:19.179 --> 00:36:22.849
she understood everything that had been said, She understood what

602
00:36:22.909 --> 00:36:26.909
the plan was at this moment, and then the appointment ended.

603
00:36:27.969 --> 00:36:31.409
So after work that day, Patrick and Lindsay talked about

604
00:36:31.429 --> 00:36:34.449
the appointment and how they felt good about the plans

605
00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:37.670
that were put in place. The hardest part is always

606
00:36:37.710 --> 00:36:40.489
the first step in anything that you're suffering with, but

607
00:36:40.530 --> 00:36:43.150
Lindsay had done that, and that was a good thing.

608
00:36:44.070 --> 00:36:46.900
So Lindsay filled the prescription and And then she made

609
00:36:46.940 --> 00:36:50.460
a follow-up appointment with Dr. Tufts for about two weeks later,

610
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:54.710
which would have been September the 28th. Now, this second appointment,

611
00:36:54.750 --> 00:36:58.610
when it came, would be much shorter than the first one. Again,

612
00:36:58.630 --> 00:37:00.789
because this is not an intake meeting. She's got all

613
00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:05.340
of the information already. Per Lindsay's choice, this was a

614
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:07.840
virtual appointment. So she didn't go into the office. This

615
00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:12.829
is virtual. It's telehealth. And overall... Lindsay told Dr. Tufts

616
00:37:12.869 --> 00:37:16.400
that she had chosen not to take the medication, even

617
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.179
though she had gone and she had filled it. She

618
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:22.000
told Dr. Tufts that baby Callan had been sleeping better,

619
00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:24.789
which meant Lindsay said she had gotten a little bit

620
00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:28.469
more sleep. She also told Dr. Tufts that she was

621
00:37:28.530 --> 00:37:30.869
feeling a bit improved and she said that her mood

622
00:37:30.909 --> 00:37:34.369
was okay. She said, again, because they check every time.

623
00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:37.590
She was not hearing voices. She said she was not suicidal.

624
00:37:37.989 --> 00:37:39.809
All of the other checkpoints I've mentioned, I don't want

625
00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:42.969
to keep repeating them. All of those were negative as well.

626
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:46.250
So Dr. Tuff said, okay, did you go follow up,

627
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:48.980
like I said, and go see the psychologist? And Lindsay said,

628
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:55.070
not yet, but... She wanted to, and Dr. Tufts said, okay, look,

629
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:57.760
you really need to go see somebody. And she suggested

630
00:37:57.820 --> 00:38:01.079
someone by the name of Jennifer McAllister as a good

631
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:05.420
option as a therapy provider. Lindsay, again, understood the assignment,

632
00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:10.400
signed off on the plan, and that appointment ended. But

633
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.500
back at the house, still living in their family life,

634
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.980
Lindsay told Patrick that she just didn't think that she

635
00:38:17.019 --> 00:38:19.119
was going to be ready to go back to work yet.

636
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.440
She just needed more time. This was going too quickly.

637
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:27.280
And two days later, after that second appointment, Lindsay sent

638
00:38:27.340 --> 00:38:31.190
a message to Dr. Tufts through an online patient portal.

639
00:38:31.909 --> 00:38:35.429
And she explained that mentally, she just was not ready

640
00:38:35.489 --> 00:38:37.550
to go back to work yet. And she wanted to

641
00:38:37.590 --> 00:38:40.400
know if Dr. Tufts would write her a letter that

642
00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:43.500
she could turn into the hospital to request for a

643
00:38:43.579 --> 00:38:46.460
longer maternity leave or an extension to the maternity leave.

644
00:38:47.809 --> 00:38:50.949
So Dr. Tufts kind of comes back and she's like, look,

645
00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:54.150
have you started any of the Zoloft? And Lindsay said, no,

646
00:38:54.510 --> 00:38:57.909
but she said, I'm feeling better. And Dr. Tufts says, okay,

647
00:38:58.250 --> 00:39:00.929
we still need to have another appointment then so that

648
00:39:00.969 --> 00:39:06.159
we can do further assessment. So in the month of October,

649
00:39:06.340 --> 00:39:08.559
and I know I'm just going month by month. And again, guys,

650
00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:11.019
I don't want to bore you, but to me, the

651
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:14.119
facts matter. I want to make a decision based off

652
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.030
of facts. So I'm giving it all to you. So

653
00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:19.070
in the month of October, I want you to know

654
00:39:19.130 --> 00:39:24.070
that Lindsay would see or interact online with Dr. Tufts

655
00:39:24.849 --> 00:39:28.980
about seven times, which would be basically every few days

656
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:33.340
that month. So these interactions are important to put in

657
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.659
the back of your mind. It's not just how many

658
00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:39.780
interactions they had, but also what was said and the

659
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:42.719
changes in her health plan, which I'm going to summarize

660
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:47.090
for you here. So on October the 3rd, Dr. Tufts

661
00:39:47.150 --> 00:39:51.469
responded and provided the extension letter for the maternity leave paperwork.

662
00:39:51.909 --> 00:39:56.059
That same day, Lindsay went and made an appointment with

663
00:39:56.099 --> 00:40:01.480
that suggested licensed mental health counselor, Jennifer McAllister. A few

664
00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:05.050
days later, on October the 10th, Lindsay messaged Dr. Tufts

665
00:40:05.150 --> 00:40:08.750
again and asked if she could make some adjustments on

666
00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:11.889
that maternity extension letter that she had sent, saying that

667
00:40:12.010 --> 00:40:15.750
anxiety and an inability to care for patients needed to

668
00:40:15.809 --> 00:40:21.110
be expressly stated in the letter. A little bit deeper

669
00:40:21.150 --> 00:40:23.909
in that messaging, Lindsay also said that she was not

670
00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:26.519
going to take the Zoloft because she wanted to try

671
00:40:26.579 --> 00:40:29.179
the therapy first. And remember, she had gone and she

672
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:34.460
had made that meeting with McAllister. In the first meeting

673
00:40:34.900 --> 00:40:39.880
with Ms. McAllister, Lindsay said that she was close with

674
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:42.480
her oldest sister. She mentioned that she was very close

675
00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:45.650
with her parents and that she had a big support

676
00:40:45.730 --> 00:40:49.570
system around her. And that's important. Lindsay was not on

677
00:40:49.630 --> 00:40:54.130
her own here. And that's part of a psychological evaluation

678
00:40:54.170 --> 00:40:56.409
is do you have a support system to help sustain

679
00:40:56.449 --> 00:40:59.179
you in your times of weakness? And Lindsay said yes.

680
00:41:00.329 --> 00:41:03.230
So Lindsay would then continue through her days. She would

681
00:41:03.269 --> 00:41:08.010
even go to lunch again with her friend, Andrea Hennigan.

682
00:41:08.650 --> 00:41:11.429
The ladies met up. They enjoyed catching up with one another.

683
00:41:11.530 --> 00:41:14.159
And Andrea's like, girl, when are you coming back to work?

684
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:16.480
It's got to be coming up soon. And that's when

685
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:18.820
Lindsay told her that she just didn't want to return

686
00:41:18.860 --> 00:41:22.519
to work. She went further to say her insomnia and

687
00:41:22.579 --> 00:41:25.760
her brain fog were just getting in the way. And

688
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:28.739
she opened up and told Andrea that she was also

689
00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:32.940
seeking help, that she was getting therapy. And in these

690
00:41:33.019 --> 00:41:35.780
days that had passed since I told you that she

691
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:38.679
had spoken to Dr. Tufts about the Zoloft, she told

692
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:42.519
her friend Andrea that she had decided to start Zoloft

693
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:44.860
and she wanted to see if it was gonna help her.

694
00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:49.619
So the next appointment, that Lindsay had with Dr. Tufts

695
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.349
would be on October the 20th. When she goes in,

696
00:41:53.409 --> 00:41:56.309
she tells Dr. Tufts, look, I started the Zoloft. Not

697
00:41:56.349 --> 00:41:58.809
only did I take some, but then I increased the

698
00:41:58.849 --> 00:42:01.889
dose like you told me to. But then she said,

699
00:42:02.289 --> 00:42:04.969
when I did that, I felt awful. And so I

700
00:42:05.010 --> 00:42:10.179
stopped taking it. So let's pause for a second. The

701
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.969
lowest dose possible of this Zoloft is 25 milligrams. And

702
00:42:16.030 --> 00:42:18.610
that is what Lindsay was started on. Not a very

703
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:23.739
high dose, the lowest one. But Zoloft, again, it's used

704
00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:29.500
to treat depression, PTSD, panic disorder, anxiety, okay? The documented

705
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:33.139
side effects of Zoloft, I told you they're benign. Things

706
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:38.179
like nausea, diarrhea, drowsiness, lowered sex drive. Well, the good

707
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.989
news is that this drug, by the point of this

708
00:42:43.570 --> 00:42:50.150
doctor's appointment was pretty much, it's metabolized very quickly. And

709
00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:54.590
so when Lindsay was saying that the medicine made her

710
00:42:54.670 --> 00:42:58.030
feel bad and so she had just stopped taking it, Dr.

711
00:42:58.090 --> 00:43:05.480
Tufts wasn't necessarily agreeing professionally with Lindsay's explanation that the

712
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:08.619
medicine was making her feel bad. And I want to

713
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:10.300
stop right here and tell you, again, it's not a

714
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:13.869
science podcast. But I want you to truly understand things.

715
00:43:14.590 --> 00:43:17.010
And I hope you can appreciate this little further discussion

716
00:43:17.050 --> 00:43:19.329
for just a second. Because I'm going to share a

717
00:43:19.349 --> 00:43:21.230
few points with you that may matter at the very

718
00:43:21.409 --> 00:43:24.340
end of this series when you are left as a

719
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:27.860
listener to ponder your own thoughts and what you think

720
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:32.739
happened in this case. Also, all of the medication information

721
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:34.980
that I'm sharing with you is based off of data

722
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.090
from dailymed.gov. That's the site. It's linked in my show

723
00:43:38.130 --> 00:43:40.190
notes for reference if you'd like to go see where

724
00:43:40.210 --> 00:43:44.019
I got this information from. But with Zoloft, when you

725
00:43:44.059 --> 00:43:47.690
take it once a day, the drug builds up and

726
00:43:47.730 --> 00:43:51.889
it reaches a stable, consistent level. It's called a steady

727
00:43:51.949 --> 00:43:57.090
state in your blood after one week of consistently taking

728
00:43:57.170 --> 00:44:01.639
it daily. Hear me out on this. Lindsay filled that

729
00:44:01.699 --> 00:44:07.449
prescription on September the 29th. Per Lindsay's own discussion with

730
00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:10.449
the doctor, her own admissions in the record, and her

731
00:44:10.489 --> 00:44:13.809
friend Andrea, she still had not started taking it by

732
00:44:13.889 --> 00:44:18.590
October the 10th. So this means that only 10 days

733
00:44:18.739 --> 00:44:24.280
passed between her starting it and her next appointment, if

734
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:27.059
you're keeping up with these dates. And by the time

735
00:44:27.099 --> 00:44:30.860
of that next appointment, she already had stopped it because

736
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:33.750
she told the doctor, right, that she had stopped taking it.

737
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:37.050
She started it and then she stopped it. Well, Zoloft

738
00:44:37.650 --> 00:44:42.320
has a half-life of 26 hours. So basically, the potency

739
00:44:42.340 --> 00:44:45.940
and effect would drop in half every 26 hours. And

740
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:50.519
my point is this. The reason Dr. Tufts came to

741
00:44:50.539 --> 00:44:53.280
the conclusion that she did and didn't agree with Lindsay

742
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.960
feeling bad because of the Zoloft was because she felt

743
00:44:57.980 --> 00:45:00.500
like she was starting or continuing to feel bad because

744
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:05.179
of her depression. Her symptoms... We're not indicative of what

745
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:09.550
Zoloft normally has as a side effect. The side effects

746
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:14.650
aren't sadness and a lack of motivation for Zoloft. That

747
00:45:14.710 --> 00:45:17.949
was Lindsay's only continued main complaint. She did say she

748
00:45:17.969 --> 00:45:20.590
had a stomach ache. Well, if you're on the lowest

749
00:45:20.650 --> 00:45:25.010
dose of a medication for less than 10 days, and

750
00:45:25.070 --> 00:45:28.150
something else I can add in right now is that

751
00:45:29.030 --> 00:45:33.039
Lindsay had only taken seven pills a out of that

752
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:37.389
entire prescription in that 10 day period. Well, that just

753
00:45:37.429 --> 00:45:41.070
doesn't fit what the patient is describing as an adverse effect.

754
00:45:41.710 --> 00:45:45.909
Lindsay said herself that she took the 25 milligram and

755
00:45:45.949 --> 00:45:48.590
then doubled the dosage as she had been told to do.

756
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:53.900
So if the pills were 25 milligram and she only

757
00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:57.840
took seven total pills, and at one point she admits

758
00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:00.800
that she had doubled the dose, I don't know the

759
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.079
combination of how and when and what day. I just

760
00:46:03.099 --> 00:46:06.579
know there's like a 10-day period here. But assuming she

761
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:12.980
took one pill on October the 11th, and then on

762
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.619
October 12th, she doubled it. So she took two. October

763
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:18.230
the 13th, she took two. October the 14th, she took two.

764
00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:21.849
Whatever day she took them. And then she abruptly quit

765
00:46:21.929 --> 00:46:25.809
taking them. That accounts for seven pills. But it also

766
00:46:25.849 --> 00:46:28.829
means that she only took the medication for a total of,

767
00:46:29.329 --> 00:46:35.820
of four days. It would take her more days to

768
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.590
have even hit that maximum component, right, in her blood.

769
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:43.320
And because of the half-life, it would have been out

770
00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:47.059
of her system. Like the main effect of it would

771
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.820
have been out of her system based on the half-life

772
00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.130
by the time that she was back seeing Dr. Tufts again.

773
00:46:52.210 --> 00:46:55.010
Yet she's saying she still felt awful. And I took

774
00:46:55.050 --> 00:46:57.909
the time to break that down for you because I

775
00:46:57.929 --> 00:46:59.789
took the time to break it down for myself. And

776
00:46:59.809 --> 00:47:02.949
for that reason, I agree with Dr. Tufts on her

777
00:47:02.969 --> 00:47:06.639
assessment that day. I don't think it was the Zoloft

778
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:08.900
that did that because of everything I just explained. I

779
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:12.579
think her depression was just horrible. So what did Dr.

780
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:17.019
Tufts do with her professional opinion combined with what Lindsay

781
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:20.260
was telling her? She adjusted the plan. She said, you

782
00:47:20.300 --> 00:47:22.989
know what? Stop taking the Zoloft altogether. I agree. Don't

783
00:47:23.030 --> 00:47:25.570
take the Zoloft. So in her mind, what? Get rid

784
00:47:25.590 --> 00:47:28.949
of the medication. Lindsay said, you know, I'm just worried.

785
00:47:29.030 --> 00:47:31.349
Maybe I'll become suicidal or something if I don't start

786
00:47:31.409 --> 00:47:34.590
feeling better soon. So Dr. Tufts said, if you don't

787
00:47:34.630 --> 00:47:36.409
want to take the medicine because you don't like it,

788
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.889
maybe we should look into more natural remedies. If that's

789
00:47:39.929 --> 00:47:44.190
something that you want to try, I'm open to doing that. Well,

790
00:47:44.929 --> 00:47:46.860
she also added that you need to continue with the

791
00:47:46.900 --> 00:47:50.900
therapy with that psychologist as well. And Lindsay said she

792
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:53.139
was going to think on it and then she would

793
00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:55.900
want to have another meeting with Dr. Tufts. That was

794
00:47:55.940 --> 00:48:01.119
the appointment. The very next day, on October the 21st,

795
00:48:01.610 --> 00:48:05.090
Lindsay made a virtual appointment. Lindsay again reported she was

796
00:48:05.190 --> 00:48:08.449
not suicidal. She was not homicidal. She was not hearing voices.

797
00:48:09.389 --> 00:48:13.010
And she said this day that she wasn't necessarily depressed.

798
00:48:13.989 --> 00:48:16.320
So you're looking at this going, you are, you aren't,

799
00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:18.920
you are, you aren't. Which one is it? Again, that

800
00:48:18.980 --> 00:48:22.519
seems like depression. But Dr. Tuft made a comment in

801
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.000
the notes, a professional comment that said, Lindsay is denying depression,

802
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.429
but the doctor seems to think she is. I mean,

803
00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:35.670
she really is giving off depressed. But because of her

804
00:48:35.710 --> 00:48:39.369
continued anxiety and she made an appointment the very next day, Dr.

805
00:48:39.409 --> 00:48:44.059
Tufts then suggested, what if we try Ativan? But Ativan,

806
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.860
this prescription was just as needed. This was not something

807
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:51.320
she was told to take every day. If her anxiety

808
00:48:51.380 --> 00:48:54.139
were to spike severely, she could take one of the

809
00:48:54.219 --> 00:48:57.960
Ativan to calm herself down. Dr. Tufts said, try it

810
00:48:57.980 --> 00:49:00.820
for a week, get back with me on that, and

811
00:49:00.860 --> 00:49:04.800
then follow up with your therapy as we have discussed.

812
00:49:06.349 --> 00:49:11.260
So exactly five days later, they had another appointment on

813
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.880
the 26th. Lindsay's clinical presentation was much the same, depressed

814
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:19.809
and anxious, but she told Dr. Tufts that she tried

815
00:49:19.849 --> 00:49:23.340
the Ativan and it was working. She also said, look,

816
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:26.010
I've all, uh, Lindsay said, I've also been taking Benadryl

817
00:49:26.179 --> 00:49:28.599
with it. And I like that it's working for me.

818
00:49:29.139 --> 00:49:32.239
She said, I'm not suicidal. She did not have any

819
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:37.250
of the doctor's, um, uh, notes or anything that would

820
00:49:37.289 --> 00:49:39.969
lend that she was in any type of psychosis. And

821
00:49:40.050 --> 00:49:43.809
she was already scheduled again to see her therapist, Ms. McAllister.

822
00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:47.429
So Dr. Tufts said, look, if the Benadryl is working,

823
00:49:47.449 --> 00:49:50.070
that's awesome, but that is not meant for sleep. That's

824
00:49:50.090 --> 00:49:52.630
more of an allergy medicine. So I'm going to prescribe

825
00:49:52.670 --> 00:49:56.190
you hydroxyzine because that would be a better fit. It's

826
00:49:56.210 --> 00:50:00.239
got a similar effect of Benadryl, but it's for anxiety.

827
00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:03.269
And Lindsay was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. So Dr.

828
00:50:03.309 --> 00:50:07.190
Tufts was still trying to adjust medication to quell Lindsay's

829
00:50:07.250 --> 00:50:10.909
continued anxiety and depression, but also make sure she wasn't

830
00:50:10.929 --> 00:50:16.070
taking medication inappropriately, right? Like the Benadryl. So she also

831
00:50:16.130 --> 00:50:19.329
discussed with her that they could try a medication called Buspar.

832
00:50:19.949 --> 00:50:24.559
That's for anxiety. But again, minimal side effects such as

833
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:28.300
a headache or nausea and the half-life of that drug, well,

834
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:30.340
it was only two to three hours. So it's out

835
00:50:30.380 --> 00:50:33.719
of your system pretty quick. And Lindsay agreed. She said,

836
00:50:33.739 --> 00:50:35.980
you know, that sounds good. So she went and she

837
00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:39.320
filled that prescription of one month, 30 pills for the

838
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:44.630
Buce Bar. So Halloween of 2026 was really, really fun

839
00:50:45.210 --> 00:50:47.230
for the kiddos. It was now, you know, the end

840
00:50:47.250 --> 00:50:50.969
of October. Lindsay had a virtual appointment with her therapist,

841
00:50:51.030 --> 00:50:56.869
Miss McAllister, right before trick-or-treating the day of. And trick-or-treating

842
00:50:56.909 --> 00:51:00.420
is fun. And all three of her kiddos were ready

843
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:03.679
to go have some fun. Dawson, my man Dawson, I

844
00:51:03.699 --> 00:51:06.820
got to tell you something. This little fellow was so

845
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.349
giddy when he picked out his costume because he was

846
00:51:10.429 --> 00:51:15.849
dressing up as a real firefighter. And everyone was going

847
00:51:15.869 --> 00:51:17.369
to look at him and they were going to think

848
00:51:17.409 --> 00:51:19.679
he was the real deal. When he was looking in

849
00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:23.280
the mirror and he was putting on that costume, he knew.

850
00:51:23.340 --> 00:51:26.000
He said, we're not going to tell anybody that I'm

851
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:28.170
not a real firefighter. We're going to let them believe it.

852
00:51:28.610 --> 00:51:30.940
And he checked himself out in that mirror. He had

853
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:35.920
on his plastic red fireman's hat. It looked so real.

854
00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:38.599
And he had a yellow badge. That sticker was right

855
00:51:38.619 --> 00:51:41.610
on the front of his helmet. And his jacket was

856
00:51:41.769 --> 00:51:44.889
the coolest. It was the coolest one that two-year-old boy

857
00:51:44.929 --> 00:51:48.650
had ever seen in his entire life. It was red

858
00:51:48.889 --> 00:51:50.929
and it had the yellow stripes on it. And it

859
00:51:51.110 --> 00:51:55.880
even had a real reflective silver strip across it. If

860
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.429
the cars would pass by him, they were going to

861
00:51:58.469 --> 00:52:01.329
see that reflection shine bright and they're going to see

862
00:52:01.369 --> 00:52:04.449
his boots. It just brought it all together, just like

863
00:52:04.489 --> 00:52:07.550
the real guys. And of course, the sleeves were a

864
00:52:07.570 --> 00:52:11.400
little bit long and his black boots with that yellow trim,

865
00:52:11.420 --> 00:52:13.679
they were a bit bulky because he was a little fella.

866
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:17.019
But when he took off running towards a pretend fire,

867
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:22.739
he looked so cool. Daddy, look, look how cool. And

868
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:25.250
you want to know what else? You won't believe this,

869
00:52:25.610 --> 00:52:29.130
but his mama and daddy had found him a real

870
00:52:29.610 --> 00:52:34.110
pretend fire extinguisher to go trick-or-treating with. And he could

871
00:52:34.170 --> 00:52:36.679
hold it up and take a fireman's stance while he

872
00:52:36.699 --> 00:52:39.719
was pointing it and putting out every fake fire along

873
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:43.119
the path. He was a cool guy, y'all. And daddy

874
00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:46.300
was snapping pictures. Mama, they're snapping pictures all along the way.

875
00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:48.760
And daddy was just so proud of his little buddy,

876
00:52:48.940 --> 00:52:52.119
big cheesing at that camera. And mama was watching them

877
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:56.460
do their trick-or-treating. And all three kids had fun and

878
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:59.699
candy galore. It was like hitting the lottery. Every kid

879
00:52:59.739 --> 00:53:02.650
loves candy. You come in. And all three, well, not

880
00:53:02.670 --> 00:53:04.949
all three of them, because obviously baby Callan, he's too little.

881
00:53:05.050 --> 00:53:08.050
But they dumped out their buckets and looked at all

882
00:53:08.070 --> 00:53:11.789
the candy. But don't you dare touch mine, right? The

883
00:53:11.829 --> 00:53:14.090
kids don't want each other digging each other's buckets. That's

884
00:53:14.210 --> 00:53:18.570
my candy. But remember Cora. Cora had to take care

885
00:53:18.610 --> 00:53:21.579
of her babies. And Callan can have some of mine

886
00:53:21.619 --> 00:53:24.920
if he wants it. She's just a sweetheart. But she

887
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:27.679
had to be reminded Callan can't have any baby. Him

888
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.019
don't have any teeths yet. He can't chew the candy.

889
00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:33.420
He's just got his little baby gums. And when he

890
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:36.980
would smile big, that's all you could see. These dimples

891
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.389
and those little gums. Just a sweet baby. And he

892
00:53:40.409 --> 00:53:45.090
didn't need candy. Just snuggles and a warm bottle and

893
00:53:45.150 --> 00:53:47.630
maybe some shuggies on his neck, which tickled and would

894
00:53:47.670 --> 00:53:51.329
make him grin real big. That was just as good

895
00:53:51.369 --> 00:53:55.309
as candy to that little man. So the kids were

896
00:53:55.329 --> 00:53:58.139
even excited to tell babysitter Laney about everything and how

897
00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:02.239
fun Halloween was. Everything in the Clancy home was going

898
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:07.179
as usual and the routines were well established by this point.

899
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:12.929
So why wasn't Lindsay improving much? Behind the scenes and

900
00:54:13.369 --> 00:54:17.989
unknown to most people in Lindsay's life, the medicines prescribed

901
00:54:18.030 --> 00:54:21.289
to date None of them were really being taken as

902
00:54:21.389 --> 00:54:25.670
everyone thought that they were being taken. And I don't

903
00:54:25.730 --> 00:54:28.690
mean in overuse either. I'm going to be clear. I

904
00:54:28.730 --> 00:54:34.050
mean in underuse. That Zoloft prescription from September, she only

905
00:54:34.090 --> 00:54:37.519
took seven out of the 30 pills. How do you know?

906
00:54:38.179 --> 00:54:42.199
Because there were still 23 left in the bottle. That

907
00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:47.320
October prescription, those three that Dr. Tufts prescribed, that Ativan prescription,

908
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:52.159
14 pills. of the 30 pills were still in the bottle.

909
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:58.179
That Buspar prescription from October, 28 of the 30 pills

910
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:04.809
were still in the bottle. In the hydroxyzine, 27 of

911
00:55:04.869 --> 00:55:09.030
those 30 pills were still in the bottle. So as

912
00:55:09.090 --> 00:55:13.780
it stood, when the Clancy children went to bed Halloween night,

913
00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:18.559
Lindsay wasn't getting much better and she wasn't taking much medication.

914
00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:25.699
While 120 pills were prescribed total across all of the

915
00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:31.199
prescriptions thus far, only 28 pills were missing from all

916
00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:36.659
of the prescriptions to this point. Yet November would come

917
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:41.070
and the Clancy family was pushing through. Lainey was still

918
00:55:41.139 --> 00:55:44.199
watching the children three days a week. Lindsay was still

919
00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:48.469
going to the doctor and seeing her therapist. Patrick was

920
00:55:48.570 --> 00:55:51.750
working and paying the bills. Lindsay was focusing on her

921
00:55:51.789 --> 00:55:54.550
mental health. She even bought some self-help books to try

922
00:55:54.590 --> 00:55:57.809
and work on herself and what was going on. She

923
00:55:57.829 --> 00:56:00.150
also started a log of all of her medications to

924
00:56:00.190 --> 00:56:04.210
keep track. And Lainey continued to help with the children.

925
00:56:05.590 --> 00:56:13.019
So what would happen over the next 84 days? 84,

926
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:16.639
that's an odd number to mention, I know. But 84 days...

927
00:56:18.460 --> 00:56:25.079
feels really heavy to me in this moment. Because 84

928
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:30.309
more mornings would come. 84 days of the children laughing

929
00:56:31.070 --> 00:56:37.650
and playing. 84 more days of meals and running errands

930
00:56:37.710 --> 00:56:43.860
and conversations and ordinary little moments that feel completely insignificant

931
00:56:44.380 --> 00:56:49.469
at the time. And yet somewhere in that seemingly ordinary

932
00:56:49.650 --> 00:56:55.710
stretch of life, the clock was winding down, tick by

933
00:56:55.809 --> 00:57:01.650
tick by tick. So remember this whenever you get your

934
00:57:01.710 --> 00:57:06.150
tissues ready for next week's episode. 84 is a huge number,

935
00:57:07.230 --> 00:57:10.900
but it's not 84 degrees, an ordinary warm weather temperature.

936
00:57:11.739 --> 00:57:15.179
It's not $ 84 for a medical bill. It's not 84

937
00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:19.630
people gathering at a party. It's not a birth year

938
00:57:20.150 --> 00:57:26.070
to celebrate. It's actually quite the opposite. 84 matters here

939
00:57:26.110 --> 00:57:29.650
because at this place and this series, it's the total

940
00:57:29.690 --> 00:57:32.730
number of days remaining in the Clancy children's lives.