Taken!

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims whose cases are so
shocking that many are left wondering how is

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this even real? I use my
experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined

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with my years as a criminal justice
educator, dig deep into complex cases of

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evil acts, some so evil many
feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable

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as intended for mature audiences. If
you are easily offended, then I'm not

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your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ back here for

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another episode of Unspeakable, a true
crime podcast by Kelly Jennings. How are

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y'all doing? I'm super duper duper
duper excited. That was an extra duper

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an extra duper excited for the person
that I have here today to talk to

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me. It's a special guest.
But before I get to that, I

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have some patron members I want to
reach out to and say, Hey,

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are you doing, Miss Helen Laparus? I hope I did not destroy your

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name. I tried on that one. I've never seen Laparus as a last

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name before, so message me.
If I got it wrong, I'll fix

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it. But I appreciate you being
a patron member and thank you so much.

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And we also have a miss Lee
Anne Hamous Lee. How are you.

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I'm so thankful to have you as
part of our patron team. Thank

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you so much for joining us.
And I hope that you enjoyed today's episode

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because this is going to be a
little bit different because I have the person

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that was right there in the midst
of it, right she smelt it,

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she felt it, she tasted it, she was part, she was the

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case in this instance. And I
think it's a great thing when I'm able

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to have someone who was victimized speak
to me about it rather then remember them

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about it. So today is my
friend, Miss Stacy Pola Zola. How

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are you, Miss Stacy. I'm
thank you. I'm so glad you came

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in today. I know that we've
been um. We've worked together for I

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don't know, fifteen years or so. We've always had a pretty good working

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relationship. But I was working somewhere
one time a school won't name, but

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I'll never forget this. I was
eating lunch. There was a group of

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people sitting there, and your name
came up for whatever we were working on,

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and then randomly in the middle of
biting a subway sandwich. The person

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next to me said, yeah,
you know she was kidnapped, right,

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and then took another bite of the
sandwich and then never said another word to

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me about it. And I was
like, excuse me, you're gonna have

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to elaborate morphin, it's chew and
I need more information. But she said,

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I don't really know. I don't
really have much more than you know.

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I know that she was kidnapping and
she made it, she survived,

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and I was totally stunned by that. You know, I'm sure as I'm

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sure you were, and so I
wanted to have you on today. We've

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never talked about it, so this
is gonna be new for me as it

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is for the listeners. And so
why don't you, first of all,

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let me describe you so people will
know you are every bit of five foot

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what four foot eleven? Four foot
eleven? All right? To me?

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That matters when we're gonna talk about
what happened. She's a tiny little thing.

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I could put her in my pocket
and take her with me if I

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wanted two. Right, So,
you're four eleven and at the time that

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this happened, how old we I
was thirty nine, thirty nine, and

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the guy we're gonna talk to talk
about that was involved in this was about

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thirty three when it happened. So
y'all weren't super young chickens, y'all were,

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you know, well comparatively, yes, but we weren't teenagers or anything

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old enough to definitely know better than
we're adults. Yeah, y'all were adults.

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All right, we'll talk me through
it. Tell me what happened,

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because this is this is a lot
well it. We had left for an

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evening. It was New Year's Eve. U. I had dropped my boys

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off, had a sleepover they were
going to, which is why I was

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in my own car that that evening. We were going to dinner out at

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the casino. Who's we uh,
my parents, UM, my friend,

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you know, the four of us
were headed out to the casino, um,

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the old casino Magic whatever in Baton
in Baton Rouge. That was when

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you know, the boats had kind
of just they hadn't been in Baton Rouge

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terribly long. Uh. So we
were going out there for dinner and some

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friends of ours were the band that
was playing. We did that and then

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we were you know, stuck around
to watch the fireworks on the river.

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Um, you know, Nina,
that was kind of it. And um,

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when we got ready to leave,
we had a great evening, a

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lot of fun. UM got ready
to leave. My we had valet parked,

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everybody at valet parked, and my
friend had left early because he had

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to work the next day. So
when the valet guys came, you know,

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they brought my car, they brought
my parents car. I motioned for

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my parents to get in front of
me because you know, I'm going to

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watch them. We actually lived in
the same neighborhood at the time, so

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you know, we're headed We're headed
home. I was. We approached the

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Government Street in South tenth exit.
When you go right on South tenth,

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the ramp to the interstate is right
there, and my parents were in front

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of me. They made the right
turn to get on the interstate, and

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I actually caught the light all right, the car across the intersection. I

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saw my dad on the ramp hit
his break lights. Uh, the car

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coming at us made a left turn, and when my dad saw the lights

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behind him, you know, then
he left as soon as the light turned

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green. Almost spontaneously, somebody ran
into the back of my car. How

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hard was it? Was it a
tap or was it? Well, you

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know, when you get hit from
behind, it feels worse than it probably

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really you know was but it was
enough to get my attention, and it

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was enough to uh make me super
angry. Okay, like really, I

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know, you just didn't run into
my car. Uh and and to you

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know, pour oil, you know, on on top of the situation,

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I had just paid my car off
that day. It was like a big

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celebration, like who cars paid for? Uh So anyway, I was mad,

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and um, you know, my
four foot eleven hundred pounds self follow

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the I made the right turn.
I pulled to the side of the road.

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Of course you did, because good
people follow the rules, yes,

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and do what they're supposed to.
You're supposed to get information and exchange driver's

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license. That's what you do.
Okay. As angry as I was,

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and just really never even thought about
it, I mean, and I got

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my driver's license. I pushed the
door open to get out, and you

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know, he put a forty five
in my face and pushed me back into

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my car. And then he came
with it, you know, he just

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it and it was so fast and
so quick, you know, you just

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didn't even respond. Next thing,
you know, I'm on the entrance ramp,

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you know, with a crazy person, a stranger in control of your

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life at that point. Yeah,
yeah, So he shoved you over this

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inner console into the passage that hanso. I had a camera at the time,

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and it wasn't you know, a
high or it had a low console,

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you know, thinking back, I
don't know why. Of course,

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you always think back, one why
did you stop? Two? Why didn't

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I go out the other door?
But you know what, let me say

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something about that. So I recently
took a course and became a certified like

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rape defense instructor, and something that
stuck out to me in that not that

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this was about a rate, but
just in general. You know, she

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said that commonly when they interview people
who were victims of violence, domestic violence

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or rape or anything like that,
that they always think back and say,

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my god, why didn't I do
this? Why didn't I do that?

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But something you're supposed to always remember
is you did exactly what you needed to

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do because you survived. Yeah,
And there's something to be said there,

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and that's absolutely true. You did
exactly what you needed to do, you

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know, and throughout the ordeal.
Uh, you know, it is easy

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to look back, but in the
heat of the moment, because anyone who

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knows my personality knows that I would
not tolerate that. A gun changes everything.

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Yeah, okay, a gun changes
and can take down the biggest,

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strongest guy. When a gun is
involved, it's it's different. Neither stakes

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are different. Absolutely, and you
are very much. Um, I very

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much felt like Gumby. Yeah,
you know, I really did. There

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really sucks all of the life out
of it. Did you feel heavy?

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Hey, what did you feel like
once you realized Oh my god, did

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he say anything? Uh? He
was? He was screaming because I was

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screaming. Were you screaming words?
Were you just screaming? I was screaming

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because I wanted out, you know, and I was begging, let me

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out, stop stop stop the car
and um, you know I had visions

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of when you got on that interstate. There's that um that park down on

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town. Oh yeah, with the
basketball under the inner State. Uh.

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For whatever reason, I was always
fearful of that area as as even a

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child, because my grandparents lived there
many many years ago. Um. I

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don't know why, but I am, and I really felt like that's where,

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you know, my life was flashing
in front of me because I was

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like, he's taking me there,
that's you know, yeah, I mean

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what else would he want with me? Um? You know, I didn't

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know this was going to drag out
into you know, a very long ordeal.

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Uh. So there was a moment
of I'm glad we passed that exit,

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okay, but then there was a
moment of what are you doing with

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me? Why? And um?
Completely out of control? I was um

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and he was what was he yelling? Do you know? Like he just

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shut up? He was very and
very angry, very you know, um.

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And I'm sure his adrenaline was out
the roof too. I don't know.

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I'm never coming at it a really
serious crime, um, but but

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he was very, um, very
hostile at the time. Did he look

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like a bad guy. He wouldn't
let me look you know, if I

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tried to look over then you know, he became quite violent. Um.

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You know, so I was supposed
to look down, you know, not

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to look at him. Um.
I don't really really remember, but he

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was screaming that we were we were
headed too. He kept saying to shut

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up because we were headed to Mississippi. Well, he missed the turn and

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took the split, and so I, you know, knew we were headed

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toward New Orleans. Um. The
the things that I remember most during that

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initial hour two hours, Um,
you become quite aware of your surroundings because

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you're looking, you're trying to make
mental notes, You're trying to figure out,

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you know, some kind of option. Uh. And I remember being

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on the hit it to New Orleans
on you know, the basin and thinking,

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um, well, I could just
open the car dooring, Um,

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yeah, you know, that could
be an option. I didn't like that

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option because he was he was driving
fast. The other thing I noticed is

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on New Year's Day, there is
not a lot of um car traffic because

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everyone has been out through the you
know, New Year's Eve. There was

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no police on the road. There's
no running radar because everybody probably worked the

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night before, you know. So
I just remember and I remember the weather

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conditions. It was very uh it
was cold and kind of just a overcast,

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funky kind of day. Uh.
So my options were quite limited at

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the time. So where's the gun
now? While you're the gun is in

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his lap, the gun stays kind
of in his lips. He had one

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hand on it or um for them, you know, for the little bit

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I saw. Uh, you know, I tried not to look. Um.

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He had a white um like hand
towel. I guess over it,

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uh in his lab So talk about
premeditation though, there to have something to

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cover it even in the event.
I guess that someone looked over from a

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higher vehicle or something. I don't
why would he come. Why was he

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covering it? You think? I
don't know, you know what I mean,

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like he's trying to Why do you
not? Why do you take me

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and just you know, yeah,
not just take the vehicle? Uh?

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And I don't know if that was
you know, who knows? I mean,

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was that planned? Was it?
You know, just a spur of

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the moment um? I don't know, you know, I um, I've

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never had that conversation with him.
I would like to, yeah, you

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know, wow, Oh we're going
to come back to that. That would

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be interesting. So where are you
right now in your mind while we're driving?

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Are we on the bridge to New
Orleans? Well you are, I

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am. We are on the bridge
to New Orleans. And um, I

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was in a place where, probably
for the first time, in my entire

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life. Um, I felt very
hopeless. And that was a feeling that

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I still remember today because I'm a
super super confident person. I'm very positive

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person. You're very calm collected,
You're you from my experience, you think

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before you speak. I don't have
that gift, y'all. And you seem

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usually collected, put together with a
plan. But then when you have no

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choice, I had nothing, Yeah, And I can remember thinking bringing it

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back because by at the time,
by trade, I was a counselor,

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you know, I had a master's
degree in counseling. That's what I was

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doing. And I remember, you
know, I've worked with hundreds and hundreds

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and hundreds of kids through my forty
years of being in the system, and

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I remember the school system. Yeah, I remember thinking, all this time

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working with kids, I really did
not know what feeling hopeless felt like.

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I thought I did right, okay, and I argued you up one side

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and down the other. But I
did not okay. And it Uh,

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that moment in time changed me.
It changed how I approached young people or

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even adults and the journey that they
were on. Uh, it's so much

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more than book knowledge. Um,
you know, to to work with people

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and understand the journey that they are
on. UM. And I remember that

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very distinctly distinct league where where exactly
at that moment I was, Um,

207
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.000
he got very turned around in New
Orleans, which was frustrating him, and

208
00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.080
so y'all made it into the city. He made it into the city,

209
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:48.840
and I think that was creating even
war stress on him. And because you

210
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.440
know, too, bad guys.
I'm gonna call them bad guys because it's

211
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:53.840
my podcast. I knew what I
want, UM, but the bad guys

212
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:59.679
too. UM always seemed to think
police know more than they know. It's

213
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.799
kind of comical. So like he
feels like I would assume, he feels

214
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:04.359
like, oh my gosh, everyone's
looking for this car. Everybody's looking for

215
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.960
me. You know, when,
really, did anyone even know you were

216
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.960
gone yet? By this point,
I did not think so. Okay,

217
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:17.559
I would later find out yeah they
did, but I would not think so

218
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:26.000
at the time. You're still in
such a hyper state you're I was not

219
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:32.519
even you know, looking back on
that whole situation, at that particular moment,

220
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.640
I was not even if someone would
have said, hey, you've been

221
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:45.240
kidnapped, Like it just wasn't logically
registering what was happening, but he pulled

222
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:53.440
into a parking lot and made me
drive m So he took some stress off

223
00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.880
of himself. Yes, you get
to be the tour guy at this point

224
00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:03.079
I get to which was okay,
even worse now yea, So my thought

225
00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.640
was fun. I mean I didn't
know where I was going either, you

226
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.319
know, given and New Orleans is
scary enough if you do know what you're

227
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.200
doing down there, and if you're
not from here, I want to point

228
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:21.319
that out to you that you know, locals, we understand what like Marty

229
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.319
Girl, right, everyone who's not
from here, Oh, Marty Girl,

230
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.319
New Orleans. Yeah, Marty Garl
New Orleans bro. Not safe. Got

231
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.559
to be careful, got to be
in the right state of mind, right,

232
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:30.000
people. You know, like when
we go down there, we're not

233
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.519
drinking and all that because we want
to be aware of our surroundings. It's

234
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.200
the murder capital of the world.
And now you're down there, don't know

235
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.079
where you are, don't know who
you're with, I don't know where you're

236
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:45.960
going. I mean, it's it's
it's way more than just you're driving a

237
00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.200
car and don't know what to do. I mean it's compounded well, and

238
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:56.319
it threw another option in of do
irect the car? And what would the

239
00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:02.279
consequence of that be? Easy?
Gonna shoot me if I wrecked the car

240
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.599
again? In that state of um, you know, he easily was elevated

241
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:15.359
to next level. Did he seem
intoxicated or he was high? I mean

242
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:22.480
he not intoxicated alcohol intoxicated. I'm
sure he had hit on something like crack

243
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:30.480
yea upper because he was wide eyed
and just um. And I'm looking at

244
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.480
his picture real quick, not to
go all over the place. I'm trying

245
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:33.720
to be in your shoes, you
know what I mean, which I never

246
00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:40.640
hopefully will ever be, but in
that situation, but he is very like

247
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.519
unassuming. In this still shot that
I'm looking at, he kind of looks

248
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.440
like a goober. H And that
is a very cleaned up picture of him.

249
00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.279
Okay, what did he look?
Very very scruffy when white male,

250
00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:59.000
white male? How tall? Then? Probably, I don't know, not

251
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.440
terribly tall five eight ish maybe.
Let me give the let me give the

252
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.920
people. His name. His name
was Gary Hayman, and he's this isn't

253
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.039
his you know, he's not a
choir boy. We'll talk about that more

254
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:17.200
later. But then he was he's
tall, you say, uh, not

255
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.440
not terrible. Everybody's tall. Yeah, I guess in you're four eleven,

256
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.880
you're looking over at everybody. Everybody. He was a huge fellow. He

257
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:29.160
was not huge. He was not
huge. Um, long, scraggly,

258
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.279
you know, kind of grayish hair. Um, you can tell rough life,

259
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.359
rough okay, rough life. What
was he wearing? Do you remember

260
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:45.039
kind of thing? Uh? Jeans
and I don't really remember T shirty kind

261
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.720
of like those that those questions.
I can see how irrelevant that information was

262
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:56.839
because you're collecting survival tools and and
I paid very close attention to uh because

263
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:04.839
when I was driving back towards Baton
Rouge. Was that a relief? Well,

264
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.440
it gave Like I said, there
were more options to me at that

265
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:18.240
point that I'm trying to figure out. And way he calmed down somewhat after

266
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.559
I became the driver. Now were
you speaking with him? Were y'all having

267
00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.279
a little short Q? Not Q
and a but like a short Where was

268
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.400
he saying turn go here? Do
that? And you weren't saying anything or

269
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:37.599
he was in complete control during this
time period. It was not until we

270
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:47.519
made the exit to fifty five hit
it toward Mississippi. Um that I just

271
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:56.480
I calmed down and was looking at
I want to see my children. Yeah,

272
00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:03.000
I want out of this situation,
and screaming was not working. Okay.

273
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:11.079
So I remember the moment even going
down fifty five, where I had

274
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:18.799
to just take a deep breath and
it was kind of like a conversation with

275
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.480
God. At that point, he
gave me a set of skills. I

276
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:30.200
was a counselor use them, Stacy, use what you have. And I

277
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:37.519
did glance over and he had a
tattoo. It's his I don't remember now

278
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.039
it's been a long time ago,
but I don't remember if it was his

279
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.200
name or initials. But I commented
on the tattoo and he screamed at me

280
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:53.720
to you know, quit looking drive
and and I asked him where are you

281
00:22:53.880 --> 00:23:02.440
from? And why are you so
pissed off at everything? Yeah, that

282
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:11.720
was kind of a moment, okay
um where I felt like I had some

283
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:17.759
tiny bit of control, not a
lot, but um, I was going

284
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:22.920
to be in control of Stacy.
Okay. Um. He gave me short

285
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.640
answers, but then would always follow
up with shut up and drive. Um

286
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:33.680
kind of thing. At one point
about I don't know, maybe two and

287
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:40.039
a half three hours into this UM, which must have felt like a lifetime

288
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.599
life. It's a lifetime. UM. I wanted I had to go to

289
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:49.559
the bathroom, you know, I
was just I needed to go potty.

290
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.279
Yeah, And then I told him
I have to go potty. I mean,

291
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:59.799
you're you have to bring me and
we you shooting a kidnapped a woman

292
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.319
if you did not want to take
potty breaks, get it together, Gary,

293
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:08.839
and so uh, he pulled to
told me to pull in. There

294
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:14.640
was a UM, a rest area, and of course he threatened me,

295
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:18.359
you know that if I made any
emotion, if I tried to dart,

296
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:23.440
um, he was gonna kill me
and anybody else that got in his way.

297
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:30.400
UM. There were a couple of
people at the rest area, UM,

298
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:38.240
which was a new kind of emotion
because here are people, and how

299
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.680
do you get their attention? You
really can't. I mean, you know,

300
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:48.480
I tried. I tried to think
of ways, you know, everything

301
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.319
like eye contact, blinking, staring
something, but you know, you don't

302
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:59.160
really People just walk by you.
They don't realize, oh, here's someone

303
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:08.839
who's being held captive. He went
into the UM. The doorway of them

304
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:17.720
the restaurant and stood there like outside
of what a stall would be, and

305
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:22.960
somebody came in and it must have
startled another lady that a gentleman was in

306
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.200
there. And he said, oh, my wife is in there. She's

307
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:30.519
sick. So that's how that kind
of panned out. Um. And then

308
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:37.759
we got back into the car.
He had again the gun in the white

309
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:42.960
towel. Um, So he got
into the driver's seat at this point,

310
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:52.200
UM. And then we drove for
hours again UM. Sometimes I felt like

311
00:25:52.240 --> 00:26:00.039
in circles. But he did start
to, UM, have some communication and

312
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:06.279
you know, a little short answer, short questions, not about anything.

313
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:15.160
Just I reached over and turned the
radio one just because, um, And

314
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:25.880
there actually was a the forty Niners
were playing a football game and raising boys.

315
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:32.160
I just begin to talk nervous football
kind of thing. So that went

316
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:40.599
on, and we're now probably twelve
o'clock. Can we say, yeah,

317
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.240
so we're about twelve o'clock. Where
what can we flash back to your parents

318
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.039
right now? Can about like what
happened up to that point? When did

319
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:52.480
they realize you didn't make it home? Or did they they knew immediately I

320
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:57.759
did not make it home because the
regular m o of a daddy who raises

321
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:04.359
girls. Follow the girls home,
and the rule was you went inside,

322
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:08.960
you locked the door, and you
flash the cardboard light. You know,

323
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:15.680
so they actually knew immediately. Um
and they and this is no cell phone

324
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:21.440
or did you have one? I
had a bag. You look like you're

325
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:26.680
taking rounds and war with those bag
phones calling for backup. Yah. Yeah,

326
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.200
you know I had a bag cell
phone that was on the floor of

327
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:37.000
the back seat. Okay, uh
somewhere around uh Ponchatoula. He threw it

328
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:47.519
out the window. Um, and
I had a um patrem and um,

329
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.559
you know it just it was going
off NonStop. Obviously you know you knew,

330
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:56.160
I knew my family was calling and
and but it's a pare back in

331
00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.319
the day. Yeah, it was
a patre. Um gives you a look?

332
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.759
Did it give you an ounce of
hope when you hear it vibrate?

333
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:08.119
Though maybe in any way like they're
looking, you know, it didn't.

334
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.680
It didn't, honestly, because I
was fearful of the page. You're setting

335
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:19.319
him off kind of like the phone. Yeah, you know, he was

336
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.559
having none of that. So it
was kind of every time it went off,

337
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.880
it was like, yeah, he's
going to hear that eventually, that

338
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:37.160
vibration, and at this point I
kinda I'm just trying to stay alive.

339
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.359
Yeah, you know, I want
to, like I said, you go

340
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:47.119
back to you want to see your
kids and your family. And you know

341
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:55.680
what made this difficult in its own
you know, even complicated beyond it.

342
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.720
In my neighborhood growing up as a
child, the neighborhood was very close,

343
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:06.640
brought together by a little neighborhood swim
club. So the parents were all good

344
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:11.519
friends, those kids were all very
close. And we had a very dear

345
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:19.680
friend of ours four houses down who
disappeared three years earlier than me and has

346
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:29.599
never to this day, there has
never been one ounce of information regarding her

347
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:34.160
whereabouts. What was her name?
Her name? Her name was Donna Gonzales.

348
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:38.759
And the Gonzales family, like I
said, we were very all of

349
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:44.240
us very close. My little sister's
best friend. They had five children,

350
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:52.559
we had four. You know,
she is on a summer leave. She

351
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:59.720
had been in a seminary, probably
going to enter religious life, and was

352
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.559
all for the summer. First day
of a little job, they find her

353
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:11.079
car at a convenience store and as
she's gone, how old was she uh

354
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:18.839
roughly, uh, probably twentiesh My
god. So the neighborhood, Um,

355
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:27.480
it was a it was a fearful
event for our entire you know, neighborhood.

356
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:32.640
I brought back a lot. We
spent a lot of time, myself

357
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:38.279
included, down in Raine, Louisiana, hunting fields and everything for um,

358
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:44.240
you know, any shred of evidence, um, you know, for our

359
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.880
friend. Um. So that's you
know, and in the back of my

360
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:55.000
mind, I did for whatever reason, because I knew my parents were going

361
00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.680
to be just completely devastated right now. Uh kind of thing. So that's

362
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:07.279
kind of but that's also the them
to try and stay composed, try and

363
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:14.279
again look at options. Um so
you're so you're talking football, Yes,

364
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:22.480
we're talking football. Um. He's
the only um like comment he made with

365
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:27.839
regards to he was trying to find
something that had been left for him in

366
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:33.039
Mississippi. It was by a river, was all he said. Well that

367
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:40.920
created in me this whole other emotion
of uh, oh my god, he's

368
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:45.279
gonna drown me. Yeah, Okay, at that point I felt like I'd

369
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.440
rather be shot, you know,
drowning, just and in what a place

370
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.319
to be that you're having to contemplate
what what should what death do I want?

371
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:56.960
Yeah? Uh, so you know
it was I knew I didn't want

372
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.160
to be by a river, you
know, I just didn't all kind of

373
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:12.640
thing. And it was a little
time pass and um he wanted He said

374
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:16.079
we were going to get a hotel
room for him to resk. Yeah,

375
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.839
that was kind of my exact thought. But you know, you do what

376
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.880
you have to do to survive.
And I just knew that if I could

377
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:34.319
keep time, that that was in
my favor. And so, you know,

378
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:39.160
we pulled into um, I guess
it was kind of like a day's

379
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:46.400
in type hotel room's face outside,
two story. Um, we pulled into

380
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:52.599
the little you know check in whatever. We go inside. He tells me,

381
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:57.640
you know you're gonna rent this room, and again I get the if

382
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:01.160
you move, if you make any
kind of you know, um motion,

383
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:07.240
et cetera, I'll kill you and
anyone else. So there's one gentleman at

384
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:13.640
the desk. Um, and you
go back to that icontact like can you

385
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:19.519
see that, I'm you know,
scared to desk anything. Um, fill

386
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.279
out you know the little paper and
is he in the car, know he's

387
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:27.799
standing behind me, with a pistol
in my back. Ah. Yeah,

388
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.079
so again you know he has the
upper hand. You do as you're told.

389
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:37.400
Um, I rent the room.
Um, I ran my charge card

390
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:45.759
even though I had cash. Smart
girl, um and so um we walk

391
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:52.000
out with the key and he all
of a sudden kind of has like this

392
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:57.640
little mini melt down, like you
wrote something on that paper, didn't you?

393
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.960
And I had not. I thought
about it, but I did not,

394
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:07.880
and he couldn't let it go.
And I could see that panic starting

395
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:09.760
to rise again, and I told
me, I said, well, come

396
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:14.320
on, come see. And I
went back and I told the guy.

397
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.199
I was like, give me the
paper that I just filled out, and

398
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.800
I showed it to him. I
said now, and I tossed it back

399
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:31.400
and let's go Southern warm bun extend
time. Are you happy now, kidnapper?

400
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:36.239
Yeah? It was. You know
at the time, it's like,

401
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.760
you know, I'm just wanting extra
time. Yeah. So we get into

402
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:47.119
this hotel room and you're doing the
quick scan. You know, you're looking.

403
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:52.679
That's where the feeling of gum being
comes from, because you know,

404
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.880
you got a lamp. What's a
day's in? So that damn thing screwed

405
00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.760
to the table. Yeah, that's
no good. There's a telephone. And

406
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:07.280
literally I can remember picking like my
purse up and I just felt like it

407
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:10.880
weighed four hundred pounds. So even
if I had something that I could have

408
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:19.239
hit him with, you just can't, just can't. I went to the

409
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:24.599
ladies room, did the quick look
in the bathroom. Zero. He said

410
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.639
we were going to go to the
store. I was going to give him

411
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:35.039
a haircut. And of course in
my mind thinking scissors. Yes, yeah,

412
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.119
could I stab someone? And that
was a thought in my head,

413
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:45.039
like could I do that? I
don't know that even with my little bad

414
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:51.800
self, I couldn't overpower him.
Okay, a man has such an advantage,

415
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.480
even a smaller statue of a guy, you know, and a small

416
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:01.000
even without the pistol, he could
have man handled me. Yeah, and

417
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.760
you would have had to get to
the door and open the door and unlock

418
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.760
the door. In your finite skills
when with people don't know this, um,

419
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.920
just from training. I know this, but you lose your finite motor

420
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.679
skills when you're under extreme stress and
so your heart, you know, all

421
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:17.760
your bloods go into your vital organs
and trying to just keep you alive and

422
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:24.559
well, so like something as simple
as dialing a phone becomes almost impossible in

423
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:30.559
extreme situations. Imagine trying to unlock
a door, right and fumble and well

424
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:35.000
he Um, he laid on a
bed. There were two beds in the

425
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.920
room. Um, I jumped,
you know, he laid in one,

426
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.320
so I sat on the other one. I turned the TV on, Uh

427
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:49.800
said football kind of thing, just
I think to have noise. Uh.

428
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:53.880
And you know, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm just fidgetine. Yeah,

429
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.199
he took my purse, He went
all through my purse, my you

430
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:05.920
know, he studied my driver's license. Um, which later you know would

431
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:09.719
come to pan out because he contacted
us after all was said and done.

432
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.960
Um. You know that was back
in the day when like your checks still

433
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.440
had like your phone number. So
he did make a mental note of all

434
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:25.239
of that information. He took my
shoes from me. Um, you know,

435
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:30.519
and you prepare for what you know, you feel like it's coming.

436
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:35.840
And even that is at that moment
in time, it's just a survival skill,

437
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:42.639
you know. That's that was not
even again. I'm just I need

438
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.679
time, I need time. So
rape was on your mind, just to

439
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:47.559
put it out there raps on your
mind. Yeah, well you know he

440
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.360
makes you run a hotel room.
Yeah, we're gonna be stuck there.

441
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.920
You know, it's three o'clock in
the afternoon and you got to spend the

442
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:00.440
night. Yeah, so, um, that is um. But you put

443
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:05.480
it, your brain, puts it
in a place like you compartmentalize it on

444
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.480
this Yeah, and it's almost like, oh, I need a drink of

445
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:13.880
water. Well, this is probably
going to happen, so you just that's

446
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:19.519
how you survive. Yeah, that's
that's the mentality of survival. You know.

447
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:25.440
As it panned out, as he
was laying there, I felt like

448
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:32.199
whatever drug he had hit on prior
to this incident, I kind of felt

449
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:37.199
like there was a moment where he
was starting to come down from that high.

450
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:45.840
And so then it became let's keep
everyone calm because I was at a

451
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:52.920
place emotionally if I felt like he
just blinked for longer than a nanosecond,

452
00:38:53.760 --> 00:39:01.119
I had decided running was a better
option. Could at least try and avoid

453
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:07.000
the shot or maybe he would miss. Um, that was still better than

454
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:13.760
drowning. Yeah, you know whatever, he's still talking about this river and

455
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.159
picking up something. UM, and
at some point you got to get rid

456
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.599
of me, okay. And I
guess once you pick something up, you

457
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.519
have my car, you've taken my
money. Now he took all the cash.

458
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:31.079
Um M, yeah, yeah,
no, no drowning, you know.

459
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:36.960
Um, I didn't want to float
down a river and blow up,

460
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.679
you know, like a dead cow
for my family to you know, receive

461
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.119
me like that. Um so I
did. That became the new plan.

462
00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:54.119
And I tried to stay as still
uh and quiet um. And there was

463
00:39:54.159 --> 00:40:01.400
a moment and at that moment,
barefoot, I hit the door and I

464
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:07.840
could outrun any Kenyon you saying Bolt
had nothing on Stacy Polozola that day.

465
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.559
Nothing. We were on the second
floor. So wait, he's laying on

466
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.400
the bed as he dozing off.
He dozed, so he never even had

467
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:20.320
the chance to get at you.
He dozed, He dozed, and I

468
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:24.360
wasn't waiting for him to take a
nap. Yeah. And I hurdled a

469
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:34.480
flight of stairs where the staircase was
is where the little circle drive. Somebody

470
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:40.239
was driving in when I hurdled that, I never hit a stair I opened

471
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.239
the back door of their car and
dove in. Isn't that weird because it's

472
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:50.199
a stranger, another stranger, and
you dove in I did, and basically

473
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:54.559
kidnapped them. Yeah, it was
a reverse kidnapping. Hit the floorboard and

474
00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:04.760
by at that point, everything that
you have kept then for eighteen hours pleases

475
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:09.559
just lose it. And I was
screaming for them to go, go go,

476
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:14.079
he has a gun, go and
bless their little hearts, they just

477
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:16.800
hit the gas and took off.
Who were they tell me what, who's

478
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.840
in the car? What does it
look like? It is a young couple,

479
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:25.159
A little young couple. UM,
guy and his little wife. UM,

480
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:30.079
who I think, we're just traveling, you know through Uh. They

481
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:38.039
went about a mile down the street
and called nine one. UM. Swat

482
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:45.840
team showed up. Um, and
you know, they went back to the

483
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:52.000
hotel, bust through the door and
he was asleep. He was asleep.

484
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:58.639
He was asleep. And they they
told me that, um, they had

485
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:04.440
to bring him. I had to
make a positive ID. So they put

486
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:09.320
me in the back seat of the
cruiser, uh, front seat of the

487
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:15.079
cruiser. Police cruiser, brought me
back to the parking lot and they walked

488
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:22.280
him out on the balcony. I
made the ID at that moment, and

489
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:28.639
at the same time, I'm sitting
in the police car. They are outside

490
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:34.639
of the car dealing with SWAT and
whatever. And it was at that moment

491
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:45.679
over the police radio, I heard
the the official um that you were found

492
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:58.960
no, that suspected kidnapping, kidnapping
and like deemed um dangerous dangerous. Yeah,

493
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:07.000
yeah, yeah yeah, And it
was like this outer body like is

494
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:15.719
that what just happened? Yeah?
I never kind of conceptualized what was happening

495
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:22.239
until I heard it third party on
the police scanner. Uh. It was

496
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:30.679
very surreal, just out of body
experience because it's you never think what's happening

497
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:34.199
to you is what what's happening?
This isn't happening, Well you don't or

498
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.199
you don't even realize it's happening.
If that, you know. And I

499
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:45.639
think that state of hyper alertness that
UM a victim goes through, you really

500
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:54.519
are it. I don't really call
it an outer body experience, but it's

501
00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:01.440
part of what's needed to keep you
able to function. Uh, you know,

502
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:07.239
and and I do in the heat
of when that car was pulling off,

503
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:15.119
I do vaguely. You know.
Remember it's like you're looking down and

504
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.960
you're seeing you in this situation.
Uh, you know, the brain does

505
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.760
a lot of crazy things. Listen. I think I've told this story before

506
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:28.079
and I know exactly what you're saying
because and I'm not going to go into

507
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.719
the long story, but a guy
took me off on a four wheeler and

508
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:32.079
I did not want to be on
the four wheeler with them, and we

509
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.159
ended up wrecking and it was horrible, and I was running back in the

510
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:40.360
darkness through the woods, barefoot,
running from my life. But I remember

511
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:46.840
it from above, and it's bizarre. I remember it from above. How

512
00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:51.480
do you remember something from a different
viewpoint? Well, but you do,

513
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.599
you do. And I think that
is UM. Like I said, when

514
00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:00.159
the brain is you know, UM, your adrenaline is at such a level.

515
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:05.559
UM, and I did. I
watched it, and that that piece

516
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:09.199
went away when I passed that park
that I was so fearful of because that's

517
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:13.679
really where I thought he was going
to take me and rape me. Well

518
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:19.360
we got past that, UM.
So then it was just the hyper alertness

519
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:27.920
UM. And we went to UM
the police station in Mississippi, in Mississippi,

520
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:34.800
UM, right outside of Jackson,
and I was in a little room

521
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:38.039
and you know, I was told
to write my statement. You know,

522
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:42.199
kind of thing. And how do
you write? Where do you well,

523
00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.559
it's like the essay of your life. Yeah, you just start and it's

524
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:52.360
just all over. Well, then
I heard screaming, shouting. He had

525
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:59.480
gotten away from the police in the
station. In the station and hit the

526
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:07.039
door. Oh my god, just
again went into one of those moments.

527
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:12.000
And there was a closet and I
got in the closet just you know.

528
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:17.440
Um, I never got to see
him after that, but I think the

529
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:22.559
police they were not happy. I'm
sure they he tried to get away from

530
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:28.639
them. Yeah. Um, so
there was an escape charge that um they

531
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.599
good had on there. Also,
Um, what was he charged with in

532
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:39.239
your situation? It was kidnapping,
aggravated kidnapping, arm robbery, um,

533
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.639
because he had the gun when he
took all your stuff. Right, Uh,

534
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:51.519
that was a third charge assault Maybe
there wasn't a There was a battery

535
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:58.039
charge. But then that did he
ever hit you? He pushed He just

536
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:06.000
pushed me around. He never really
hit me hit me. That got changed,

537
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:10.519
um because he was a three peat
felon. Oh, habitual offender,

538
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.239
yes, nice, so habitual offender
law in Louisiana's three strikes you're out just

539
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:22.039
so you know. So if you
commit three felonies, um, usually it's

540
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:24.519
about time served and what type of
charge is If you have felonies or drug

541
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:30.119
charges and they are you know,
they carry heavier weight, then we'll throw

542
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.719
your ass away in Louisiana, we
will lock you up and say bye bye.

543
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:37.559
Yeah. So was he he was
charged under habitual offender or I think

544
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.760
that's what they had changed it to. That's why the third because there was

545
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:47.159
a third charge. Um, you
know that that occurred. Um, you

546
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:52.199
know, but my parents were called
at that point to you know, come

547
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.000
up there, my family, and
they did. They you know, drove

548
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:00.639
up there to uh, you know, to drive me home. What did

549
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:07.039
that feel like whenever you saw your
daddy or your mama? It? Wow,

550
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:14.760
you know, you're just given what
happened in our neighborhood with Donna.

551
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.159
Nobody expected that outcome. I'm sitting
here looking at you, if I'm being

552
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:22.599
one hundred percent honest right now,
I'm sitting here looking at you go and

553
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:27.239
you should be a little set of
bones in a woods in the woods somewhere,

554
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.079
never to be seen again. And
I don't mean that ugly. I

555
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.880
mean that that's what happens. And
you walked away or you ran away.

556
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:38.639
You ran away and jumped a flight
as he ran away. But like a

557
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:45.039
canyon, get it girl, I'm
like so proud and like, you know,

558
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:46.960
miss Stacy just y'all know she's she's
a bit of a mentor to me

559
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:50.920
because she's the one who started my
criminal justice program. Everyone knows I teach

560
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.079
criminal justice, but I didn't know
this when we were starting it up.

561
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.400
And what a there's a little more
to go. Hey, let's do a

562
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.679
criminal justice program. I bet in
your mind mind it is it is,

563
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:07.360
um, you know, And and
we went, um, you know,

564
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.519
you fast forward, there's there's a
trial, uh, you know, and

565
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:20.559
that happened pretty quickly. Was that
it was that um um scary jarring to

566
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:27.440
be back in a room with him. Yeah, well, and um,

567
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.679
did you dread it or were you
looking forward to him getting his minute?

568
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:36.719
You know, I don't know if
it is it's it's not a dread and

569
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.840
I don't know if it's a to
get a minute. It's when you're a

570
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:49.920
victim in those initial uh, in
that initial time frame, you you don't

571
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:55.320
want because you can't forget. You
don't want it to be forgotten. Yeah,

572
00:49:55.400 --> 00:50:01.280
you know, uh, because even
when it's off of the news,

573
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:06.480
you know, the news is not
reporting you know that they snatched the little

574
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:12.360
school counselor from Denham Springs anymore.
Um, life kind of goes back to

575
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.000
normal. Your life doesn't go back
to normal, kind of like a death.

576
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.480
People've experienced a death. You don't
move on, you move forward,

577
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:23.599
but it doesn't go away. And
it is Um. So the pieces,

578
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:30.280
you know, the the extradition back
to Louisiana, that that's a piece.

579
00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:34.440
Then the pre trial you know,
that's you know, the arraignment, that's

580
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:39.840
pieces pieces. And then you do
finally get to you know that that trial,

581
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:46.480
which was a two day trial.
Um, and I felt like I

582
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:52.360
was pretty like okay, because I'm
just gonna go tell you know exactly what

583
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:59.079
happened. Um. And then he
decided to represent himself. Oh my god,

584
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:02.400
he's one of those yeah, so
and very verse and that's that is

585
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.519
a perverse. I don't know that
if that's the word for, but that's

586
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:10.519
another control tactic to get to ask
you questions, to talk to you.

587
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:15.000
So that that that was very,
very difficult. Um, that shouldn't even

588
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:22.360
be. It was difficult because,
um, one my boys were present,

589
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:28.400
and how old were they then?
My oldest was in the ninth grade and

590
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:31.320
the youngest was sixth grade. Can
we do a quick humble brag? Yes,

591
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:37.079
tell tell my listeners what your sons
are today. The oldest is um

592
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:45.599
uh emergency um uh doctor, runs
the largest trauma center in Miami, and

593
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:52.440
the youngest is the assistant Attorney General
for the state of Washington. Get out

594
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:57.159
of town, graduated at Harvard.
So you know, the little public school

595
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:00.840
children can do great things. Um. Indeed, and they got a survivor

596
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:07.159
of a mama. Um what you
know they do? And I you know,

597
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:12.159
I think that played obviously, that
played a role in the development of

598
00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:19.119
h professions and personalities. Um.
You know, they too have very much

599
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:24.199
strong work ethic. Um clearly kind
of no nonsense on They'll be the first

600
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:28.800
one to tell you. You know, there's consequences for everything. Um.

601
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:34.440
But um so yeah. So it
was difficult to be in a courtroom,

602
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.199
you know, with your family and
then him questioning you like like he should

603
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.360
even have the nerve. I would
be so indignant, it was, Oh

604
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:46.679
my god, I'd be so m
Yeah, my family, You're lucky that

605
00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:54.639
I'm over here, son, because
my family struggled with that um and you

606
00:52:54.679 --> 00:53:01.079
know, my personality is just what
you just described. But again at the

607
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:07.400
moment, you know, I probably
cried at the very beginning and cried all

608
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:13.840
the way through, as you had
every right to. You know, I

609
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:15.639
feel like you could victimize again there. I know that's I mean, I

610
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:21.000
understand that's the way it works,
but I just right, that is sick.

611
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:25.440
Do do was a struggle, you
know, Yeah, And you always

612
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:30.599
have to be the good the good
people have to always be the composed ones,

613
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:32.280
have to be the ones to turn
the other cheek, have to be

614
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:36.920
the ones that have to keep it
together while these numbnuts are out there doing

615
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:43.360
whatever it is that they do and
constantly getting the benefit of the doubt or

616
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:46.119
getting the they get all the freedoms
to behave the way they want. It's

617
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:52.239
just frustrating to me. Hence hence
this podcast. Yeah, you know,

618
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.400
well, and it's it's uh,
you know, there's lessons to be learned,

619
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:02.079
and most people learn things once they
experience. And I'm guilty so like

620
00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:07.760
everybody's dreads, you know, when
you get that little summons in the mail

621
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.320
to go serve jury duty, well, all of a sudden I realized how

622
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:21.599
important it was to have good people, good selection on my jewelry pool,

623
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:27.719
you know, And we watched that
piece kind of thing. So I don't

624
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:30.800
complain about that, even though they
never picked me, now because I've been

625
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:35.079
a victim, so they never picked
me. Just to go off on a

626
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:39.800
sidetrack here, I got jury duty
summons is three times, and all three

627
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:45.719
times it was a big murder case
that was supposed to be coming up.

628
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:46.880
And I know that's weird to say
I was excited, but I was ready

629
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:51.000
for some jury duty. I was
ready to hear the evidence and to weigh

630
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:55.559
it and to measure it. And
every freaking time in South Louisiana a hurricane

631
00:54:55.639 --> 00:55:00.320
hit and I never got to do
it. Right, I'm ready to do

632
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.880
my civic duty, Miss Stacy.
Yeah, so he gets he gets convicted.

633
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:09.079
Correct. Was it a quick return? Uh? It was? It

634
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:14.400
was, yes, probably within the
hour. Oh yeah, it came back

635
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:19.760
pretty fast. And he got what
uhum, I want to say, he

636
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:30.039
got eighty years. Um are two
charges of party to be served concurrently.

637
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:36.559
Uh that kind of sucks. I
would have rather consecutively without um, without

638
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:42.559
parole. Um. Now that has
changed, you know, given the new

639
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:50.360
UM legislation of people over a certain
age who have served twenty or more years.

640
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:57.760
Because I was actually contact at last
February and he had been given a

641
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:04.960
parole date, you a hearing,
a date for a hearing. I feeled

642
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.719
out that paperwork. UM I wanted
to be you know, present for that.

643
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:15.239
UM. Now I have to be
really straight up honest with y'all.

644
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:22.599
I would not have voted, you
know, or I was there was not

645
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:34.400
going to be victim opposition. I
was giving that to the the experts at

646
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:44.159
the prison who have watched him over
the last twenty three years. One thing

647
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:49.320
that I did learn and I had
to do this for myself because I didn't

648
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.599
know why I was a victim,
Like what did I do that caused me

649
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:59.840
to go through that? UM?
I really struggled with that in the year

650
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:06.679
a year, two years following that
incident. The only way I could get

651
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:10.880
those answers was to go into the
prison myself. And so in two thousand

652
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:20.599
and six, I went with my
priest, met with the warden and started

653
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:30.519
a Catholic faith based organization within Amend's
prison. Nice because I needed to figure

654
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:37.679
out what these people do that get
them there? For my own selfish reason

655
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:42.760
because I'm trying to figure out why
this happened to me because he never gave

656
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:45.559
in trial, did he ever give
a reason. He never woke because he

657
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:51.199
didn't have to because he was his
own little attorney, right kind of thing.

658
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:59.760
So I needed that for me.
And what I have found out because

659
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:04.440
I now been in the prison for
the last seventeen years, I've gone in

660
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:12.920
twice a week and worked with these
gentlemen. Drugs do crazy things to people.

661
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:23.119
There's an element of mental illness that, oh yeah, can't be explained

662
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:30.679
or fixed when it comes to criminal
behavior. But probably the most, I

663
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:42.199
don't know the most what I didn't
expect was the realization that when people come

664
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:46.880
in a crime, and I'm not
just talking about him just in general as

665
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:53.960
a young person, sometimes not always, sometimes twenty five years later, they're

666
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:58.119
not really the same person. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not

667
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:00.519
the same person from ten years ago. So, you know, when the

668
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:05.119
parole thing came up, which really
caught me off guard because I really wasn't

669
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.920
kind of thinking about that because,
you know, not I was not familiar

670
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:15.280
that the legislation had had allowed that. You know, I decided at that

671
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:22.679
moment that I would let the prison
officials, you know, had he educated

672
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:29.800
himself, had he learned a skill, had he been exemplar in behavior,

673
00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:35.960
because I do come from a background
where I do believe that every life matters.

674
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:39.719
Even if you're serving, and I
work with this gentleman now serving life

675
00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:45.159
sentences, your life still matters,
and you can make a difference even there.

676
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:53.079
But apparently he could not behave long
enough. I'm so shocked to even

677
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:59.159
have his hearing, So it'll be
another two years, I guess before he

678
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:05.840
would have that opportunity. You put
the responsibility on him based in a sense,

679
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:08.239
actually you didn't. So you didn't
give away your power. You gave

680
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:10.960
it all to him in a sense
and said, hey, your behavior will

681
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:15.679
speak for itself. And it did. I did. I did. I,

682
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:23.599
like everyone, I believe in second
chances, I really do. Well.

683
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.159
There was now something I was doing
a little research. I want people

684
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:30.360
to know too that this um and
I'll be brief here. I won't go

685
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:34.920
into this in depth. But I
was curious about him because I wanted to

686
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.559
try to get to know him.
But this happened, you know, in

687
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:43.800
the nineties. And then there was
another instance and around the eighties that he

688
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:45.639
was involved in. And I didn't
have a whole lot at the time that

689
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:49.440
we're recording right now on this.
I do plan on continue to look because

690
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:54.199
I'm interested in this. But did
you know would it shock you listeners if

691
01:00:54.239 --> 01:01:00.440
I told you that there was a
cold case homicide in the eighties of a

692
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:08.760
female who interestingly enough, it involves
your kidnapper. So it happened, it

693
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:14.440
says roughly four decades ago. On
November fifth, nineteen eighty, the Rapids

694
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:19.800
Parish Sheriff's Office received a complaint related
to the discovery of skeletal remains near Highway

695
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:23.440
twenty eight West in the Gardener area. Blah blah, blah goes forward,

696
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:29.320
and it says that all they have
was the skeletal remains, and so they

697
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:34.880
sent those to LSU for they're missing
and unidentified persons known as the Faces Lab,

698
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:37.599
where they recreate the faces. And
actually I'll post a picture of this

699
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:44.320
for the for the viewers so they
can see this recreation. But it had

700
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:49.519
remained unsolved, and then they it
says detectives. Once they did the faces

701
01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:53.760
recreation, detectives were able to identify
Leo Laird, who was sixty four and

702
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:59.840
wouldn't you know Gary Joseph Hayman,
who was fifty four, both of Oakdale,

703
01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:07.360
as suspects. And they identified this
victim as Donna Gail Brazel, and

704
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:12.599
she was eighteen years old at the
time of her death and had been residing

705
01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:17.440
in the Alexandria Pineville area. And
so they said enough probable cause was established

706
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:22.519
and warrants were granted for laird An
Hayman's arrests in these first degree murders,

707
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:29.760
first first degree murder, first degree
rape, and aggravating aggravated kidnapping. There

708
01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:36.880
is a a behavior pattern, it
seems with this guy. I know he

709
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:42.360
had. At the time of my
incident, he had only been out of

710
01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:49.519
Angola for three months. He had
served seven years of a fifteen year sentence

711
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:53.159
for arm drops and he got out
on good time. I don't know what

712
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:57.199
he got out on, So just
for my listeners, good time. It's

713
01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:00.119
kind of where, you know,
if usually the word usually can mean a

714
01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:04.159
lot of things, but just in
jest, if they give you ten years

715
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:07.199
for every day you behave, it's
kind of like they'll dock a day off.

716
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:09.119
And so that's why a lot of
times they'll spend half their time.

717
01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:13.800
There is on their quote unquote good
time. And when I worked in the

718
01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:16.280
prison system, we could take away
good time as a penalties, which they'd

719
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:22.119
spend longer in prison type thing.
We don't get an extra day for being

720
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:25.199
good? Why don't they get a
day taken off, you know, for

721
01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:30.119
being normal? But it just struck
me when I looked at this, because

722
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:35.400
it is kidnapping, rape, and
homicide. Lucky enough, you're strong enough

723
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:38.800
person and smart enough to be calm
collected, and then you saying bolted out

724
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:46.800
of there because he only got the
kidnapping on you. And I'm thankful because

725
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:51.360
I appreciate our time and our friendship. Absolutely, don't take that from me.

726
01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:58.800
It is um, you know,
it's it's still surreal when you,

727
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.719
you know, look back, um. But as a survivor, you have

728
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:05.480
to look at how did it change
your life? And you have to look

729
01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:13.599
for the things that that are better
as a result of what you experienced.

730
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:23.679
I am stronger, I am very
much a different person, but at the

731
01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:30.400
same time, I am probably more
aware and hypersensitive to I can walk in

732
01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:36.920
my house now twenty years later,
until if someone turned that bottle of water

733
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:43.960
m because you know, you left
it absolutely and so I am keenly aware

734
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:50.519
and I have a grave appreciation for
m for my surroundings and you know,

735
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:56.400
and I recognize my mortality now,
yeah, you know very much. So

736
01:04:57.159 --> 01:04:59.920
I'm trying right now with my fourteen
year old daughter to explain to her that

737
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:03.360
we are not um M. I
want to go see what it is.

738
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:08.800
I know, and you need to
tell them they need to knock, not

739
01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:16.920
like they're the police. You want
me to finish. Yeah, okay,

740
01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:25.159
So we're gonna wrap up right about
now. I wouldn't being rude. Um.

741
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:28.440
I always have some kind of little
snarky, little sassy ending or something.

742
01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:30.039
So I was trying to figure it
out. But I think I'm gonna

743
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:33.400
do something more on the sweet side
for you. All Right, you're ready?

744
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:42.039
Uh boom? Oh wait what were
you saying when he said boom?

745
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:46.000
It's okay, I don't remember,
oh your life mortality a fourteen year ol

746
01:05:46.039 --> 01:05:49.559
daughter, that's the list, all
right ready and boom Jim. Yeah,

747
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:55.519
right now, I'm actually trying to
explain this to my fourteen year old daughter

748
01:05:55.639 --> 01:06:00.199
that you're not um you know,
that mortality is real, that you were

749
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:04.320
not invincible, and she's got that
light of a young person who doesn't who

750
01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:11.159
hasn't faced any serious trauma or you
know, horrificness I guess you would say

751
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.360
in life. And so she's she's
still young, you know. Well I

752
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:17.440
wasn't that young, and I still
didn't listen, so, um, you

753
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:21.719
know, well, let me tell
you this. I'm glad you made it

754
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:25.480
out. Thank you, and I
want you to know that you are I

755
01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:27.719
look up to you because I do. I think a lot of you,

756
01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:30.360
and um, I really appreciate you
taking the time to come and see me.

757
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:34.960
I hope everybody listen listening enjoyed this
episode as much as I did because

758
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:39.039
we had never spoken to this you
know story before with each other, and

759
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:42.239
you know, I just want to
say life is tough, but my darling,

760
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:43.000
so are you