House of Horrors Part 2 | The Crimes of Fred & Rosemary West

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,700Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real200:00:10,700 --> 00:00:21,840victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real?300:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,960I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal400:00:26,960 --> 00:00:33,320justice educator dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are500:00:33,320 --> 00:00:51,000unspeakable.600:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,120Warning, unspeakable is intended for mature audiences.700:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,880If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl.800:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,280Listing discretion is advised.900:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,160Hey y'all, KJ here back for another episode of Unspeakable, what's going on?1000:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,680It's Thanksgiving Week!1100:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,680Thank you, Jesus!1200:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,520I'm actually off all week from teaching, which is really fun for me, but that actually1300:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,280means now I've got more time to write podcasts.1400:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,200So I'm rolling out a whole bunch of new podcasts, reall, I've got some bonus episodes in1500:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,040the mix, and you spoke, and I listened, and I have a local case that I'm working on right1600:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,280now too, that's a good one, that y'all are going to be really, really interested in.1700:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,280That said, my dog also had puppies.1800:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,720Have y'all been looking at Facebook?1900:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,680I'm a post-amon Patreon too, because they are so cute.2000:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,520I got five precious brand new French Bulldog puppies, and they're so cute.2100:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,560You need to go look if you haven't, and just imagine the puppy breath, because they're2200:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,560precious.2300:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,320I've got a shout out too, all the way from Brian, Texas.2400:01:43,320 --> 00:01:45,920I need to say hello to Miss Jillian Witten.2500:01:45,920 --> 00:01:46,920Hey, go!2600:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,680How's it going in Texas?2700:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,960I bet it's hot.2800:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,760I don't know, maybe not, but it's been hot down here.2900:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,200We've had maybe one or two days of cool, but usually we get y'all's weather after y'all3000:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,800get it, but I hope things are going good in Texas.3100:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,960I hope that you're having the best week ever, and I hope that y'all enjoy the rest of this3200:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,040episode, because I want a pat on the back.3300:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,800I'm patting my own damn self on the back, because this episode was a mother to write, and3400:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,160I don't know if you realize it, but I put a whole lot of research and effort into these3500:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,880cases, and this one, I almost threw my hands up, because this dude was cute.3600:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,880He was killing everybody he came in contact with.3700:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,840I mean, I'm sprozed and by the left on the planet after I finished writing this one, but let's3800:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,040jump back into it.3900:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,360We can do a quick recap for the people who have forgotten what happened last episode, but4000:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,800there's a whole bunch of people that came in contact with Rosemary and Fred West, and they4100:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,640ended up missing dead or raped.4200:02:38,640 --> 00:02:39,640Okay?4300:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,160There was nobody that ended up with a good outcome after meeting these people.4400:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,080We had nanny number one, which was Anne McFall, 18 years old, up and missing, and she4500:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,080was pregnant.4600:02:49,080 --> 00:02:54,280Fred's daughter, Charmaine, who is eight years old, she went missing while Fred was incarcerated.4700:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,480Then Fred's first wife, Catherine Costello, she went missing, was never reported missing4800:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,480to the police.4900:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,480Fred had also killed young Henry Feney, who was a little bitty fella, and ran him over5000:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,920with ice cream truck.5100:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,120The nanny number two was Caroline Owens.5200:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,800She did survive that brutal rape and kidnapping.5300:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,480She escaped, but then as fate would have it, I guess, they got no jail time for what they5400:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,320did to her, convinced the courts that she was a willing participant in this and just paid5500:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,520a small fine.5600:03:21,520 --> 00:03:27,400And then Shirley Robinson, who was 18 years old, also pregnant by Fred, was reported missing5700:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,400to police.5800:03:28,400 --> 00:03:34,440Then Fred's sister was also molested and raped and impregnated by Fred as well, but yet this5900:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,200fella is still walking freely amongst everybody else.6000:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,040This is an un-comfortable number of people who have had their lives affected or even ended6100:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,040by these two.6200:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,680And we aren't even close to being done yet.6300:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,640This one is out of the box.6400:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,400Hopefully, I've appropriately established the fact that Fred is not only dangerous, but he's6500:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,400an accomplished predator.6600:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,960And I don't know that that's even a good thing to say, an accomplished predator, but this6700:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,280dude's bad news.6800:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,400And then he marries the heifer of the century, who's a horrible person as well, and they6900:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200are just like, you know, gas and fire.7000:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,880I mean, it's just a terrible combination.7100:04:10,880 --> 00:04:17,240Now, while not everyone who came in contact with Fred and Rose was killed, there was a whole7200:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,640lot going on with how he treated people.7300:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,680And what's even more sick is his penchant for young girls to be his sexual muses.7400:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,560Fred was doing things behind closed doors that the average person would find to be absolutely7500:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,560abhorrent.7600:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,040I mean, it's disgusting.7700:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,680And while it's totally legal, y'all, to get your freak on and do your thing with other7800:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,840consenting adults, the fact was that he was committing acts of bond.7900:04:40,840 --> 00:04:45,000And violence sex acts with underage girls.8000:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,120His wife was helping, and it's well documented.8100:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,360Not only did he enjoy depraved sex acts with minors, he actually then converted his8200:04:54,360 --> 00:05:00,920homes seller into a torture chamber to accomplish his fantasies without detection.8300:05:00,920 --> 00:05:06,400And what's even more concerning is the fact that his wife, who was very aware of what8400:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,120was going on, participated in it in her own home.8500:05:10,120 --> 00:05:15,120Yeah, and doesn't seem to find any issue with it whatsoever.8600:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,640In fact, I think that she was totally intrigued by it because she continues to take part in8700:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,440it with him and things continue to escalate.8800:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,840Now let's talk about real quick what exactly I mean by a torture chamber.8900:05:26,840 --> 00:05:28,680Walk with me if you will.9000:05:28,680 --> 00:05:35,920Down a set of stairs into a cold, damp, seller.9100:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,520And as you're looking around the room, you're going to notice it looks like everything9200:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,920you would visualize in a horror movie.9300:05:42,920 --> 00:05:48,000The walls look patched together with putty and plaster.9400:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,240But then there's some places where you can see the brick.9500:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,160And then there's these strange drawings of like a cowboy or two.9600:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,280And then this other little critter above them and it's like a child's drawing.9700:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,920And I'm, look, I'm not sure of the date of the photo that I'm actually referring to.9800:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,240And maybe these drawings were done after the fact.9900:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,240I'm not sure.10000:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,320It's still there and it's creepy.10100:06:12,320 --> 00:06:18,160And torture was going on down there.10200:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,360Y'all, I mean, like literal torture of people was going on down there.10300:06:22,360 --> 00:06:30,000There's exposed beams above the overhead and these beams were used to hang his victims10400:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,680from as they were being sexually abused and tortured by Fred and Rose West.10500:06:36,680 --> 00:06:42,480I read how they had drilled holes into the beams so that they could use contraptions to10600:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,920hoist these people up as they abused them.10700:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,040Basically in your mind, there should be a picture that's emerging of like a secret of10800:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,880place where sadistic sexual abuse was taking place.10900:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,640And no one can hear the screams or see the hot falling tears of these victims that would11000:07:01,640 --> 00:07:09,640go there and they would never see the light of day again, at least while they were breathing.11100:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,000See, Fred was a laborer during the day and his job would afford him the opportunity to11200:07:15,000 --> 00:07:22,400create these contraptions that he could then use in his torture chamber at night.11300:07:22,400 --> 00:07:29,920His most prized contraption would be one made of metal and designed specifically to tie11400:07:29,920 --> 00:07:36,480a human body to where they couldn't get away, but they were still able to be manipulated11500:07:36,480 --> 00:07:44,160in a way that best suited Fred's sexual needs or wants.11600:07:44,160 --> 00:07:50,160And he would inflict acts of sexual depravity and pain on these victims.11700:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,320He literally got off by watching suffering.11800:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,440And then he's married to a woman who agrees with it.11900:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,320What are the chances, man?12000:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,560One of the first people to be used and abused in this sex chamber would be someone very12100:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,040close to Fred.12200:08:07,040 --> 00:08:13,600Matter of fact, it would be his own daughter, Anna Marie.12300:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,320And at first when you're looking at her, the most notable thing is how much Anna Marie looks12400:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,400like Fred.12500:08:20,400 --> 00:08:26,360She has those piercing blue eyes and she's got this strong brow.12600:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,200But other than that, they don't have many similarities at all.12700:08:29,200 --> 00:08:36,960They are nothing alike in terms of personality or heart, but she does have those eyes.12800:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,920And I'm going to post pictures of this for you so you can see them.12900:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,360And according to Anna Marie, her father was a compulsive liar.13000:08:45,360 --> 00:08:52,120Even once, listen to this, even once claiming to all of his friends that and his kids actually,13100:08:52,120 --> 00:08:58,480he claimed it to all of his kids that he had invented the television, which everybody knew13200:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,480wasn't true.13300:09:01,480 --> 00:09:08,440But he was so convincing and so adamant and so just matter of fact when he was talking13400:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,120about how he invented the television that all of his kids believed it.13500:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,600And they were too adamant.13600:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,000My dad invented the television.13700:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,120Can you imagine how dumb everybody looks repeating this, these kids, when everybody knows that's13800:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,760just simply not true, but he believed it and he liked to compulsively lie about anything13900:09:28,760 --> 00:09:29,760he could.14000:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,560And if you're willing to buy his bill of goods, then I guess he's winning.14100:09:34,560 --> 00:09:39,760Do you realize a level of psychopathy you are dealing with when someone not only compulsively14200:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,520lies, but they even believe their own lies.14300:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,080And I know you know somebody like that.14400:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,360We all do.14500:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,120And then in return, they expect others to believe them even when these are just clearly outrageous14600:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120claims.14700:09:53,120 --> 00:10:00,360Pathological liars, by the way, they lie incessantly to get their way, but they do it with14800:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,880like little awareness that others might be picking up on the fact that what they're saying14900:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,400is just outrageous.15000:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,360And when it comes to pathological liars, it's often seen in people who have anti social15100:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,600personality disorders and narcissistic personality disorders.15200:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,680Well, you think have you been listening to Fred and Rose?15300:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,840A pathological liar, y'all, they are goal oriented, whether it's to get their way in some15400:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,800situation or even if they just want to be seen as more interesting than they really are.15500:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,120It kind of made me think maybe he knows Romeo and Michelle at the right school reunion.15600:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,520I mean, they invented posted notes.15700:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,520Y'all remember that?15800:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,920So Romeo and Michelle, they created the post the notes and Fred invented the TV.15900:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,280We believe them right?16000:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,760And these types of liars also have very little regard or respect for the rights of others16100:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,200or the feelings of others, which aligns with exactly what's about to happen next.16200:10:53,200 --> 00:11:01,200Because at eight years old, the very age that Rose killed Anne Marie's sister, Sermain,16300:11:01,200 --> 00:11:07,560Anne Marie was used to the lies that her dad would tell, but she did not know about her father's16400:11:07,560 --> 00:11:12,920sexual appetite until she became one of the torture chambers.16500:11:12,920 --> 00:11:20,040Post-occupants subjected to a horrifically brutal rape by her father while her stepmother held16600:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,600her down.16700:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,800Your brain has got to go somewhere where you're like, how in the world would a woman who has16800:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,880raised a child?16900:11:31,880 --> 00:11:39,760How could you possibly, in any way, shape or form, find this acceptable or arousing or whatever17000:11:39,760 --> 00:11:46,920it was to watch a child be tortured, one that you were supposed to love and raise, you know,17100:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,040and you just go along with it?17200:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,440I read some stuff about how Rose was probably a victim herself, bullshit.17300:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,280No she was not.17400:11:55,280 --> 00:12:03,080No she was not because you, y'all, you would have to kill me before I would turn my baby17500:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,880over any of my children.17600:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,880I'm not kidding.17700:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,200You'd have to put a bullet in my head.17800:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,440There's no way.17900:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,560No amount of fear would ever make me back away from my babies.18000:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,240None.18100:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,160I'd be better off dead anyway.18200:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,320But she does horrific things with Fred to this child.18300:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,640On that day that would change little Anne Marie's life forever, Rose and Fred told her, go18400:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,200down to the basement, come see, we want to show you something.18500:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,600And then all three of them walked down the steps that I mentioned earlier.18600:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,240And when they got to the bottom, Anne Marie noticed that there was a bunch of like tools18700:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,800on the ground.18800:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,840And it gave her a really uneasy feeling and so she told her parents, I don't like it down18900:12:43,840 --> 00:12:44,840here.19000:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,840I want to go back up.19100:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,200This is kind of scary.19200:12:47,200 --> 00:12:54,280And that's when Fred turned to her, his demeanor change and he told her to shut up.19300:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,120Right when they get down into the room, Rose Mary, like a freaking animal, would immediately19400:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,480rip off all of the clothes of eight year old Anne Marie.19500:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,360And she was forced to lie on the floor.19600:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,840This cold damp wet nasty seller and she's naked.19700:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,120Her mother, her stepmother has ripped her clothing off.19800:13:16,120 --> 00:13:24,320Can you imagine that this little girl must have been scared out of her ever loving mind?19900:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,720And she then asked her dad, what are these tools for?20000:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,400Like what are you doing?20100:13:28,400 --> 00:13:34,440And it scared her so much that she started screaming out for anyone who might could hear20200:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,440her.20300:13:35,440 --> 00:13:41,600And in her own words, she said that that's when Rose Mary came up when she started screaming20400:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,880and sat on her face.20500:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160Like sat on that child's face.20600:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,680She made it incredibly hard to breathe and in that same instance, and this is tough y'all,20700:13:53,680 --> 00:13:59,120but it should be because this is the reality of what this child experienced.20800:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,240As her stepmother sat on her face and was suffocating her, she says that she felt the20900:14:04,240 --> 00:14:10,840most horrible pain she had ever felt in her entire existence inside of her.21000:14:10,840 --> 00:14:18,560She was being penetrated vaginally by a tool of some sort, which is not explicitly stated.21100:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,800And it was hurting her.21200:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440So she starts to panic because she can barely breathe.21300:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,000She cannot even process what could be causing this horrific pain.21400:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,480And that's when Rose Mary moves and immediately gags her.21500:14:34,480 --> 00:14:40,320She takes a piece of ripped sheet, convenient, right, that that was down there.21600:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,280You know how this makes me think about guys who carry around rape kits, they'll call them21700:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,480like, you know, in their trunk and the bad guys have what they need to do what they want.21800:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,760This is like a fricking craft room for rape and sadism.21900:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,200They have everything they need to put down, to do these horrible acts to people.22000:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,800They had the ripped pieces of sheets prepared and it was put in her mouth and then tied22100:15:03,800 --> 00:15:12,200behind her, her back, you know, and then covered on top of that was a large piece of black22200:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,360carpet tape across her face.22300:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,360So the little girl is gagged, right?22400:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,640Can't talk.22500:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,160My hands are my mouth right now.22600:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,800She can't breathe.22700:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,720It's tied behind her back and then they take tape and put that over her face.22800:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,800It makes me think a little caley Anthony, if you're familiar with that case in Florida,22900:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,480whenever Dr. G, the medical examiner, you know, they were kind of talking about why, you23000:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,400know, what was the cause of death and she said, I don't know, but I can tell you that23100:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,720no live child needs to ever have tape over their mouth and nose and no dead child certainly23200:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,840would have tape or put over their mouth or nose.23300:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,040You know, she's basically suffocating and that's when Fred said something to her that23400:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,720should make everyone sick to their stomach.23500:15:53,720 --> 00:16:00,040He explained to his eight year old little girl that all fathers do this to their daughters23600:16:00,040 --> 00:16:08,160and it's done to make them quote a better person and eventually a good mother, unquote.23700:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,880So she needed to stop complaining.23800:16:11,880 --> 00:16:20,680This is a form of manipulation and absolute control mechanism to make this little girl23900:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,640believe that this is normal, this is acceptable and everything he's doing to her is for her24000:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,840own good.24100:16:28,840 --> 00:16:36,040He tells her she should be thankful to them for what they're doing to her and thankful24200:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,640that she has such good parents, you know, a little mind game here of if you complain24300:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,360then you're a bad person.24400:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,800If you go along with it, then you're a good person.24500:16:46,800 --> 00:16:52,920Just sick the the layers as you pull them away of what this child was experiencing.24600:16:52,920 --> 00:16:58,040And then Anne Marie says that she was tied to a metal contraption and was just thinking24700:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,680to herself and remember y'all she's an eight year old little girl.24800:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,440She thought to herself, please just let me die.24900:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,920This hurts so much.25000:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,080Please, I just want to die.25100:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,800Make it end.25200:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,360But then being a little girl only eight years old in her head, she says she started25300:17:16,360 --> 00:17:20,920thinking, well, wait a minute, daddy told me that this is normal and this is what has25400:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,520to be done.25500:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,160And so I probably need to stop making such a big ordeal about this because it's normal,25600:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,720right?25700:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,200And as she's trying to think her way through it, she was then left tied up attached to25800:17:35,200 --> 00:17:41,360that contrappment and she heard the door to the cellar clothes behind her, which she also25900:17:41,360 --> 00:17:50,520noted was a soundproof door and there she just hung until her parents decided to return26000:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,600a while later.26100:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,280And so when they did return her stepmother rose, came down the stairs and immediately started26200:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,040belittling her.26300:18:00,040 --> 00:18:06,200She says she sneered at me just talking, just talking bad to her and telling her how horrible26400:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,960of a kid she was and how this should not have been so difficult.26500:18:09,960 --> 00:18:16,000And then rose walks up and she had these long fingernails and she starts just scratching26600:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,720all over the little girl, scratching down her chest and all over her body.26700:18:19,720 --> 00:18:26,240And I'm not talking about just like scratches of like a little swipe at the kid.26800:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,880She literally scratched her and was making her bleed.26900:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,720So after a while of being belittled and beaten and scratched, they both would untie her27000:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,240and they took her to the bathroom where they forced her to bathe and she said that this27100:18:42,240 --> 00:18:49,840was excruciating because she was so sore from the rape, she was bleeding or skin hurt and27200:18:49,840 --> 00:18:59,440then to make it even worse, she was forced to go to her dad and tell him thank you, thank27300:18:59,440 --> 00:19:05,120you for what you have done to me.27400:19:05,120 --> 00:19:11,960And to show the power of true mental abuse and manipulation, check this out after they27500:19:11,960 --> 00:19:20,760had done this to this little girl, she then was allowed to go to work with her daddy.27600:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,720She got to go to work with her daddy because he wanted her to know how close they were27700:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,160and he said we have our little secrets, don't we?27800:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,160So you get to go to work with me and then he would give her some money while he was with27900:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,120her at work and let her go to the store and buy herself a treat but it was their secret28000:19:38,120 --> 00:19:42,240because Enri could not tell Rose about this.28100:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,240And then he would always tell her afterwards, oh I'm sorry about things, I'm sorry that you28200:19:46,240 --> 00:19:53,560don't understand or that it hurts you but don't ever forget that I love you, I love you.28300:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,760So little Enri just kept thinking in her mind how lucky she was to have such good parents28400:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,160that they would spend that special time with her and help her to grow.28500:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,840The manipulation and y'all this goes on today and household, household all around us,28600:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,000we just don't know it.28700:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,520Even sicker is the fact that this would become a regular occurrence and eventually though28800:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,320she would start being threatened with beatings if she told anyone of what was going on in28900:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,880the household and so she's a kid.29000:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,720People often ask me, you know why don't kids just tell or why don't abused women just leave29100:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,360their abusers, why would you sit there and put up with that?29200:20:35,360 --> 00:20:40,120Well it's just not that simple y'all especially when you're a kid, what are you gonna do?29300:20:40,120 --> 00:20:41,840Where are you gonna go?29400:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,960You're eight years old.29500:20:43,960 --> 00:20:44,960Where are you gonna go?29600:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,080The two people you quote unquote are supposed to trust the most are the people, very people29700:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,880who are doing it to you and she's so mixed up in her mind she doesn't understand because29800:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,400of the mind games that are being played.29900:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,940Something else that's really sad too is that whenever kids do speak up about any type of30000:21:01,940 --> 00:21:07,040abuse that they're experiencing and I want everyone to listen to this.30100:21:07,040 --> 00:21:14,720Remarkably as a society we have not figured out yet that the people we tend to go to first30200:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,200to discuss what a child may disclose to us may be the very ones that are inflicting the30300:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,680pain upon them and the abuse, i.e. their parents.30400:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,120And I need you to imagine you're the kid right you would disclose this and then it becomes30500:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,880your worst nightmare to think that the people that are in control of you and the ones that30600:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,480are hurting you would be tipped off by another adult that you told and you should have kept30700:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,240your mouth shut.30800:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,560So in order to avoid any of you know future abuse or worse situations kids just don't speak30900:21:49,560 --> 00:21:56,480up they don't say anything their kids they're scared and the very people that they're supposed31000:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,240to be able to trust the most in the entire world are the ones that are hurting them.31100:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,280Why would they go tell somebody else?31200:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,760They can't even trust the very people in the home.31300:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,680Rose Mary the stepmom not only helped her father sexually abuse her but she was also an31400:22:16,680 --> 00:22:23,360extremely short tempered woman and she would become so angry that Marie said that Rose would31500:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,640actually throw off at the mouth when she got angry.31600:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,560Those were her actual words talking about her stepmother and she added that it was like31700:22:31,560 --> 00:22:39,520the lights would be on but nobody was home because Rose went into a blind rage whenever31800:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,680she was angry and she would grab whatever was near her and she would throw it at the kids31900:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,240or beat the kids with it.32000:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,360It didn't even matter what it was it was literally described as just blind rage that would come32100:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,000out of this woman.32200:22:55,000 --> 00:23:02,280Let me ask you something would you be willing to go tell on someone who stabbed you?32300:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,840When you feared for your life I think not.32400:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,520Did you know that Rose actually stabbed and Marie one time in a fit of rage?32500:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,720I know you've been listening to previous episodes if not go back and listen.32600:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,720This is not something that's shocking to people who have been in the game and learn about32700:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,640child abuse.32800:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,320Stabbing someone sounds unconscionable until you listen to the story after story after story32900:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,440where it's been ingrained in these kids you listen to what I say you do what I do and you33000:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,360keep your mouth shut and then she's going to stab the little girl.33100:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,800You think that little girl is going to go tell somebody if the woman's capable of stabbing33200:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,800her?33300:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,360No, negative.33400:23:46,360 --> 00:23:51,120Something else that adds into the equation is that Rose was not someone that freely gave33500:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,400affection and it was very obvious to all of the children involved in this household that33600:23:56,400 --> 00:24:03,760they had to earn any affection that they got from her.33700:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,720I didn't even plan to say this but I just I podcast off the cuff.33800:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,040There's a song by Kelly Clarkson called Peace by Peace.33900:24:12,040 --> 00:24:18,320If you haven't heard it before, you know what, I'll post it and there's a line in that song34000:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,440where it says that love from her dad didn't come easy and it had to be earned because other34100:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,760than that she was pretty useless to him.34200:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,920Right unless she was doing something for him which in her case was given money or whatever.34300:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,800You know imagine you're living in a household where you know you have to earn the affection34400:24:35,800 --> 00:24:36,800of somebody.34500:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,200It doesn't come freely and how sad that must feel.34600:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,400Even scarier than that is if you did get the affection from the woman that you really craved34700:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,120then you were scared even more because why is she being so nice to me?34800:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,800What is going on?34900:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,760You can't win in this household.35000:24:55,760 --> 00:25:03,880One example in fact is one that one time Rose asked Anne Marie to stay home because she35100:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,080was worried about how she had upset Fred.35200:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,440So Anne Marie was kind of freaked out that Rose was being so nice to her though it kind35300:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,840of shocked her and they stayed home together and they kind of talked it through and Rose35400:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,560was really worried about making dad mad.35500:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,720But then when Fred got home Fred started yelling at Rose because remember they were in an35600:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,720argument.35700:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,200Anne Marie having spent the last hours of the day with her stepmother being so kind to her35800:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,920she felt a bit defensive considering how nice Rose had been to her.35900:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,200So Anne Marie kind of stands up for Rose the woman that was raping her beating her and36000:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,760frothing at the mouth throwing things at her and had stabbed her.36100:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,240Don't forget that part.36200:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,520This child kind of stood up and said Dad you know ease up on her you know you're being36300:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,920kind of mean and in that instant like that.36400:25:59,920 --> 00:26:06,600Fred changes his anger looks at his daughter and promptly kicked her in the face with steel36500:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,440toe boots busting her mouth and teeth.36600:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,600So how do you think Rose reacted right?36700:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,600Oh my God.36800:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,600Oh my God.36900:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,040No no no right jumps on the child tries to protect the child right.37000:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,040Wrong.37100:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,000I'm going to tell you what she did.37200:26:22,000 --> 00:26:29,480She laughed at Anne Marie and said well you got what you deserved didn't you.37300:26:29,480 --> 00:26:36,920As I assessed that situation it became very clear to me what was going on.37400:26:36,920 --> 00:26:46,800It seemed to me that this was a pre planned situation that Rose predicted what happened.37500:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,680She knew how that child would react because that child was decent and Marie was a good37600:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,280decent child and she did what she exactly what Rose expected her to do Rose kept her37700:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,920home from school Rose was very nice to her had her do the buy-in of O'Reilly I'm nice I'm37800:27:02,920 --> 00:27:11,000just scared of your dad and then turned the anger away from Rose and on to the child.37900:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,340Signed sealed delivered done and now Fred's mad at the kid and then both adults stood38000:27:17,340 --> 00:27:23,520there laughing at that little girl's busted mouth bleeding out Rose got her way she38100:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,760won.38200:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,160Sick.38300:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,820Now I want you to know this I actually had the audio of this situation being discussed38400:27:33,820 --> 00:27:41,920in Anne Marie's own voice when she's older and I'm going to post that because I'm a38500:27:41,920 --> 00:27:52,400posted in my Patreon because I want you to hear the sadness the fear and this is so unfortunate38600:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,840heartbreaking but also the shame in her voice while she's telling that story it's like it's38700:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,480like she's feeling shame for what was done to her but you feel it you feel you can hear38800:28:07,480 --> 00:28:14,240it in this victims own voice of what she was going through and something else that was38900:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,240also done in the West household is that the children were get what were called their39000:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,860annual beatings their annual beatings can you even actually some of y'all can because39100:28:25,860 --> 00:28:29,500you write to me and you tell me look I grew up in a household where things happen to39200:28:29,500 --> 00:28:34,680me that are a lot like the podcasts that you do and I want you to know I read every single39300:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,600message you send me because I don't doubt you for one second and I'm so thankful that39400:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,960you made it out and that you're an adult now and that you're able to process this from39500:28:43,960 --> 00:28:50,680an adult's point of view because having to process this as a kid must be just unobtainable39600:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,000do you ever look back at yourself as a kid and thank God you feel sorry for yourself as39700:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,800that child because you misinterpreted as you misinterpreted a situation in your life39800:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,760and then you look at it through the adult lens and you're like my God what in hell so these39900:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,680annual beatings were described as when all the kids would be pulled into the room and they40000:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,480would have their clothes ripped off and then they would all be beat with belt buckles and40100:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,360then Rose would come in and she would take those long nails I mentioned before and she40200:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,000would punch and scratch and kick all of the kids it sounds like a gang beat in you know40300:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,800what I'm talking about and the boys in the household weren't excluded from these beatings either40400:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,400I know I haven't gone into a lot of depth about all of the children because Rose did have40500:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,680eight I think in total but all of them don't play a huge role in the story so far as40600:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,760I can tell it and we haven't even gotten to a lot of the victims that are left but the40700:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,320boys weren't excluded from the beatings either and one time one of the little boys his name40800:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,760was Steven he was forced to stay home from school by Rose and then when Ann Marie returned40900:29:52,760 --> 00:29:59,160from school that afternoon she found that little boy in the bathroom tied to a toilet seat41000:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,640like hands you know around the base of the toilet and he's tied to the toilet seat and41100:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,240she said that when he looked up she did not even recognize who he was at first because41200:30:08,240 --> 00:30:15,720he was beaten so badly about the face and in all instances of abuse the children were told41300:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,720that this was done for their own good and it had to be done so that they would learn41400:30:20,720 --> 00:30:27,240respect for other people Rose would even get in trouble one time with Fred because he would41500:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,040say that if you're going to hit the children you have to make sure it doesn't leave a mark41600:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,080but Fred is going to say if you're going to hit our kids don't leave a mark are you kidding41700:30:36,080 --> 00:30:43,160me? So something that you don't often find if you're going to research this case okay41800:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,960and I know this because I've researched this case for two weeks and I've been like down41900:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,400some freaking rabbit holes but when you're researching it you won't find the fact that Ann42000:30:51,400 --> 00:30:57,880Marie was just 13 years old when she was forced to do what she called entertain gentleman42100:30:57,880 --> 00:31:04,640that would come by the home and this lends itself to tell you just how skilled of an42200:31:04,640 --> 00:31:12,240abuser Rose was because she would take the young girl she would take Amory to a bar and42300:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,720get her drunk she's 13 she would take her and get her drunk in bars and then she would42400:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,480be induced basically into doing acts that were just unacceptable of a teenager especially42500:31:23,480 --> 00:31:30,080in the presence of her stepmother and wrote and Marie tells one time that Rose took the42600:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,800two of them they went to a bar together and she says that we were having the best time42700:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,320she was so kind to me and as we were drinking she said maybe we should be better friends42800:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,560you know and do more things together because we just don't spend enough quality time together42900:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,880and Amory was soaking this up and she and the alcohol right but she's soaking up this43000:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,760attention and yeah maybe we should that would be great and so she starts again leaning43100:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,520in to Rose as a mother figure even though they're in a bar and it's weird but she starts43200:31:58,520 --> 00:32:06,720leaning into her and then about that same time Fred shows up and as soon as Fred shows up43300:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,840Rose turned on Anne Marie again it's kind of like the same thing over and over again and43400:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,840so they go outside and Anne Marie can't even walk straight she's so drunk she's 13 and43500:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,600she's not feeling good she can't walk Rose grabs her by the hair pulls her into this43600:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,520van that the family had and then ties her up in the back of the van and then in the43700:32:27,520 --> 00:32:34,800presence of her father while her dad watched Rose sexually assaulted that little girl her43800:32:34,800 --> 00:32:40,920stepmother is engaging in sex with her stepdaughter while the father watches and don't think43900:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,440that that's absolutely insanity insanity because I have an ex-friend who is in prison right44000:32:46,440 --> 00:32:53,520now where he should be for doing the same damn thing disgusting and I used to call him44100:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,600friend and I had no idea behind closed doors he was a brick and pervert disgusting despicable44200:32:59,600 --> 00:33:08,480human being there's bullets out there I don't know why he hasn't eaten one yet I digress.44300:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,080So like many of the young girls that come into Fred's life Anne Marie you ready for this44400:33:13,080 --> 00:33:19,960would also become pregnant by her own father but then it gets even worse because she becomes44500:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,240pregnant by her dad they bring her to the hospital because it becomes really dangerous44600:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,200because she has an ectopic pregnancy and it was extremely painful for her and something44700:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,040that she says as I was listening to her talk and it's with just sadness she said and the44800:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,440fact was that I was brought in by my mother and father I'm pregnant by my own dad and not44900:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,760one person in that hospital looked at me like I was a human being or even questioned45000:33:48,760 --> 00:33:55,640why a young 15 year old girl was in the hospital pregnant like no one even questioned it45100:33:55,640 --> 00:34:06,240and then to show how valuable she was both Rose and Fred left this 15 year old little girl45200:34:06,240 --> 00:34:14,400in the hospital alone for an entire week they never came to visit her the only person who45300:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,520showed up at the hospital to check on her was a friend from school who hadn't seen her and45400:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,560heard she was in the hospital God bless that friend right and then when she was released45500:34:25,560 --> 00:34:32,840from the hospital Anne Marie was very sore she felt horrible and she was greeted when she45600:34:32,840 --> 00:34:39,640got home with a swift kick in the stomach from her stepmom upon return and while I don't45700:34:39,640 --> 00:34:45,440know this for a fact I have this searing feeling inside that Rose was jealous of her stepfather45800:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,240because her father had impregnated her I know that's weird but I really feel like that's45900:34:50,240 --> 00:34:56,520what it was they then center to her room and then when her father returned home from work46000:34:56,520 --> 00:35:04,280that day he came upstairs pulled her out of the bed and made her go downstairs and apologize46100:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,080for upsetting her stepmother she had to go tell her stepmother Rose I'm sorry for upsetting46200:35:09,080 --> 00:35:17,040you after you kicked me in the stomach so this was also about the same time that she was46300:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,280forced into prostitution Rose actually would help the teenager put on her makeup and46400:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,720pick out the outfits and it kind of made me think of you know Reba McIntyre you know I'm46500:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,880a singtay you don't even play with me y'all I might have been born just playing white trash46600:35:30,880 --> 00:35:39,720but fancy was my name right because they forced her into prostitution and Rose wanted46700:35:39,720 --> 00:35:45,480to ensure that Anne Marie knew that she was in charge of this cruelty and therefore46800:35:45,480 --> 00:35:52,400when these men would show up to the home to have sex with her stepdaughter her teen daughter46900:35:52,400 --> 00:35:58,020that she forced to go to bed with these strangers Rose made a point to go in the room and47000:35:58,020 --> 00:36:09,660undress the little girl in front of the men before she left tell me that is not mind games now47100:36:09,660 --> 00:36:17,100her father was also in an adjacent room and fully aware of what was going on you have to47200:36:17,100 --> 00:36:22,180remember this Fred was a voyeur y'all do you know what voyors are a voyeur voyeurism when47300:36:22,180 --> 00:36:28,180someone likes to watch someone else having sex for their own pleasure well guess what during47400:36:28,180 --> 00:36:36,620their marriage Fred was asking Rose Mary and she was to go meet men and women for sex work47500:36:36,620 --> 00:36:41,500and then bring them back to the family's home and in that home Rose had this room she called47600:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,940like her best room or something like that and that's where they would go engage in all47700:36:44,940 --> 00:36:49,380of this sex well guess what that was the same room that they would force their daughter47800:36:49,380 --> 00:36:58,940to go in to and have sex with these strangers and Fred had designed peep holes in the walls47900:36:58,940 --> 00:37:05,380so that he could watch his wife have sex with these strangers but he was also watching his48000:37:05,380 --> 00:37:12,620daughter while she was being raped through those same peep holes and then when it was over48100:37:12,620 --> 00:37:16,180the men would leave they'd pay their penny to the to the parents and then they wouldn't48200:37:16,180 --> 00:37:21,540allow her to bathe they made her just sit there and I guess you know wallow in the filth48300:37:21,540 --> 00:37:25,300that they forced her to participate in and this was kind of sad and I didn't put this48400:37:25,300 --> 00:37:33,620in my notes but I'm going to bring it up Rose I mean I'm and Maria as an adult you know48500:37:33,620 --> 00:37:38,420is reminiscing about what had happened and she looks up with tears in her eyes and she48600:37:38,420 --> 00:37:42,460goes I guess I'm very ashamed of what I did and I thought girl you didn't do that you were48700:37:42,460 --> 00:37:49,140forced to do that it's called derest and abuse and she says but I can live with what happened48800:37:49,140 --> 00:37:54,980I just don't want my children to think less of me she was so upset that her kids might48900:37:54,980 --> 00:38:00,460think less of her and I hope her kids wrapped their mama up in a hug and say we you're such49000:38:00,460 --> 00:38:06,100an animal you're a beast for surviving what you your survivor hunt you're alive you did49100:38:06,100 --> 00:38:12,980what you had to do and you made it out you're you won you know in in in some sick aspect I49200:38:12,980 --> 00:38:21,300guess you won I wanted to know that but in another way to show how evil Rose was one time a49300:38:21,300 --> 00:38:27,060suitor showed up and you know he was going to have sex with their with Anne Marie and he49400:38:27,060 --> 00:38:34,820brought chocolates for the young girl and she even mentioned that the man was actually49500:38:34,820 --> 00:38:40,460very kind to her during the rape and even kept stopping and kind of checking in with her49600:38:40,460 --> 00:38:46,500about her feelings and making sure that he wasn't hurting her now you have to put yourself49700:38:46,500 --> 00:38:53,740in her shoes that when you're you're experiencing a ton of abuse that this does seem kind and49800:38:53,740 --> 00:38:57,380that he was being thoughtful I guess of her actions in this convoluted way and you're49900:38:57,380 --> 00:39:01,740like no you're a grown man going to rape a kid you knew what you were doing is wrong was50000:39:01,740 --> 00:39:04,780wrong that's why you're so worried about her and then you brought chocolates I guess50100:39:04,780 --> 00:39:08,940to make it better I mean you're still a child rapeist sir but I guess being nice matters50200:39:08,940 --> 00:39:15,540but either way while she didn't want the chocolates she couldn't have them anyway because Rose50300:39:15,540 --> 00:39:22,100took them from her and sat down in a chair and ate them in front of her while laughing at50400:39:22,100 --> 00:39:33,900Anne Marie like this parting gift she couldn't even have that and Anne Marie said well I didn't50500:39:33,900 --> 00:39:38,580want the chocolates but I can tell you I just wanted someone to love me and if it's this50600:39:38,580 --> 00:39:44,580man who shows up and shows that he cares about my feelings in some way then I was willing50700:39:44,580 --> 00:39:49,940to accept that maybe that was love and boom if the hammer doesn't drop right there because50800:39:49,940 --> 00:39:53,820does that not sound like a lot of teen girls who go searching for love in all the wrong50900:39:53,820 --> 00:40:02,500places mistaking sex for love and this type of behavior and abuse would continue until51000:40:02,500 --> 00:40:06,580Anne Marie just couldn't take it anymore and at the age of 15 Anne Marie she ran away from51100:40:06,580 --> 00:40:10,380home she said I'm done I'd rather go live on the streets by myself then put up with this51200:40:10,380 --> 00:40:15,060another minute and I know I've spent a lot of time discussing what happened to this one51300:40:15,060 --> 00:40:19,060daughter of his compared to a lot of the other victims I'm about to get to but the reality51400:40:19,060 --> 00:40:24,380is we don't know exactly what happened to a lot of these victims spoiler alert because51500:40:24,380 --> 00:40:28,660they just up and disappeared so we don't have a story for them to tell but I would be51600:40:28,660 --> 00:40:33,420hard pressed to think that it wasn't similar at least to what their daughter was experiencing51700:40:33,420 --> 00:40:38,860if not worse and so I think it's really important that a spent the time on this daughter because51800:40:38,860 --> 00:40:45,460it shows the mindset the the evil calculation and them just mean this of what she and her51900:40:45,460 --> 00:40:52,420siblings experience behind those those walls and even more exciting for Fred right as52000:40:52,420 --> 00:40:57,940he rapes young women down in that seller were the accessories I guess you would call them52100:40:57,940 --> 00:41:01,900I don't know what else to call them but he created his own accessories for a more thrilling52200:41:01,900 --> 00:41:09,420experience thrilling for him and Rose that is because the accessories would do nothing but52300:41:09,420 --> 00:41:15,900instill extreme horror on the girls who were forced to wear them like something straight52400:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,660out of the movie saw Fred and his wife would enjoy toying with their victims during these52500:41:21,660 --> 00:41:30,460horrendous sex games that included homemade torture masks which the girls would see when52600:41:30,460 --> 00:41:37,740they went down in the seller before they were put on them and it would limit their senses52700:41:37,740 --> 00:41:44,300other than being able to breathe they couldn't see anything they couldn't hear anything they're52800:41:44,300 --> 00:41:52,340just sitting in blind darkness praying for the pain and the torture to stop so what exactly do52900:41:52,340 --> 00:41:57,060I mean by this well here's an example one of the masks that was used in the torture sessions53000:41:57,060 --> 00:42:03,940was found at a later date and I'll explain it it limited all of the senses including sight53100:42:03,940 --> 00:42:12,740and hearing all that was left was was was their ability to quote unquote breathe but that's53200:42:12,740 --> 00:42:20,300even a stretch because the mask was was made of like tape and all that that was available53300:42:20,300 --> 00:42:27,180to the to the victim were two pipes that were stuffed up in their noses that allowed them53400:42:27,180 --> 00:42:32,580to somewhat breathe but it basically just prolonged their agony so their entire face53500:42:32,580 --> 00:42:37,860was taped up and they had these two pipes that were stuck out of their nose so that they53600:42:37,860 --> 00:42:45,980could attempt to breathe so I was looking at some some studies that were done by some some53700:42:45,980 --> 00:42:49,460psychologist because I was trying to really get my mindset around why someone would want53800:42:49,460 --> 00:42:53,860to do this not that it's ever acceptable but but the why and there was a doctor Samuel53900:42:53,860 --> 00:43:00,940Smith-Amen who was a US clinical psychologist and he anonymously interviewed 50 men now54000:43:00,940 --> 00:43:05,140this was back in the 70s but hey the time frame fits for the for the time frame that some54100:43:05,140 --> 00:43:10,100of this was happening who had confessed to having raped someone alright so he studied these54200:43:10,100 --> 00:43:17,86050 men and all of these men had diverse backgrounds diverse social statuses different personalities54300:43:17,860 --> 00:43:22,660different mentalities about why they went about what they did but what surprised him most54400:43:22,660 --> 00:43:30,180about everything that they said was how unconcerned they sounded when they talked about rape54500:43:30,180 --> 00:43:37,180they were not concerned with it as a criminal offense it was more about what they experienced54600:43:37,180 --> 00:43:43,740during the rape and motives behind rape y'all they're difficult to quantify okay but54700:43:43,740 --> 00:43:50,060the studies show that rapists do have similar characteristics and the top three being these54800:43:50,060 --> 00:43:59,820tell me if it sounds like Fred a lack of empathy toward others narcissism and feelings of hostility54900:43:59,820 --> 00:44:08,100towards women hello he fits the bill perfectly right and then here was a quote and I had to put55000:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,740this in here and I had to read it to you because it's dumb founding one of the rapists that55100:44:11,740 --> 00:44:17,980he interviewed this is a direct quote he says I felt as if I had gotten something that I55200:44:17,980 --> 00:44:28,300was entitled to and I felt I was repaying her for sexually arousing me the man described55300:44:28,300 --> 00:44:37,460both of his rape experiences as quote powerful titillating and very exciting and I felt like55400:44:37,460 --> 00:44:43,020that fit Fred right he was repaying the women who sexually aroused him as if it was their55500:44:43,020 --> 00:44:52,340fault that he was turned on by them what in the hill kind of mixed up brain do you have55600:44:52,340 --> 00:44:57,500going on that you think someone needs to pay for the attractiveness that you feel they put55700:44:57,500 --> 00:45:05,940off victim blaming much something I like to do is I like to put myself in the victim's position55800:45:05,940 --> 00:45:10,700because then it helps me understand exactly what the victim went through maybe not exactly55900:45:10,700 --> 00:45:17,220because I can't understand torture in in conjunction with terror because I've never been tortured56000:45:17,220 --> 00:45:22,180and terrorized like these these victims that I'm about to get to where and I but I don't56100:45:22,180 --> 00:45:26,260have the capacity to just block it out like some people do some people have mentioned56200:45:26,260 --> 00:45:29,940to me you know I have to fast forward through some of your episode because it's so it's56300:45:29,940 --> 00:45:38,820so striking well it should be and hey if you have to fast forward that's fine but I'm telling56400:45:38,820 --> 00:45:48,060you the details because you've got to understand what these people went through so that we don't56500:45:48,060 --> 00:45:55,740give these people an ounce of freedom because if you don't fully understand what punishment56600:45:55,740 --> 00:46:04,540is and what role it plays in the justice system you're not gonna understand it if you don't56700:46:04,540 --> 00:46:09,580know if you block out what happened to these people as rough as it is that's why people56800:46:09,580 --> 00:46:19,220get away with it because people don't want to hear it so maybe you're somebody who doesn't56900:46:19,220 --> 00:46:27,060think that the role of the justice system is you know to get even or whatever I'm sorry I do I mean57000:46:27,060 --> 00:46:34,220the really sad part is that we're not getting even actually we are we're trying to punish people57100:46:34,220 --> 00:46:43,980with a level of decency that those people refused to show their victims and we can't punish people57200:46:43,980 --> 00:46:51,660in the same way that they punished their victims because we are not those people and we don't57300:46:51,660 --> 00:46:56,740want to be those people no matter how how hard or bad these episodes are to listen to they57400:46:56,740 --> 00:47:02,540are the story the details are the story and if not then all we're gonna have is a bunch57500:47:02,540 --> 00:47:07,540of missing people or people who are dead and that just sounds like basic everyday existence57600:47:07,540 --> 00:47:13,420to me because people live and people die how they die is the story and we have to explore57700:47:13,420 --> 00:47:19,580it I wouldn't expect a jury to want to know I wouldn't expect a jury to not want to know all of the57800:47:19,580 --> 00:47:24,220details because if not then they're not going to fully understand what was done and the justice will57900:47:24,220 --> 00:47:32,540not prevail and I know that in the last episode I listed a bunch of people that went missing after58000:47:32,540 --> 00:47:37,020their interactions with the West's but in this portion of this episode I'm going to take a different58100:47:37,020 --> 00:47:42,060approach obviously you understand that these people don't just disappear into thin air something58200:47:42,060 --> 00:47:47,420happen to them and I also know that there's been a lot of victims so far so I did put a graphic on58300:47:47,420 --> 00:47:52,220Facebook to kind of help keep track if you want to I've put it on my Patreon page as well if you're58400:47:52,220 --> 00:47:56,780trying to keep up with with everything that went on but I'm gonna pick back up now with another58500:47:56,780 --> 00:48:04,620victim and her name is Linda go GOG-O-U-G-H I know some people say golf I'm just gonna say go now Linda58600:48:04,620 --> 00:48:12,060go attended um you know school like a normal girl and then she later went on to a private school that58700:48:12,060 --> 00:48:18,380was just for girls and then when she was done with school this is in 1969 she started working as a58800:48:18,380 --> 00:48:23,020seamstress and was just making her way in life and you're like Kelly why are you going way back in the58900:48:23,020 --> 00:48:27,820gap with these stories because this crime spree that I'm telling you about lasted 20 years59000:48:27,820 --> 00:48:33,660this wasn't one week this is a 20 year crime spree that I'm telling you I'm telling you about59100:48:34,300 --> 00:48:39,740but this young girl Linda is just making her way she's working as a seamstress and on April 19th and59200:48:39,740 --> 00:48:45,900this is in 1973 Linda left her family's home after leaving a note that said she was going to a nearby59300:48:45,900 --> 00:48:52,780apartment to hang out and according to the to the neighbors of the West's Linda had become friendly59400:48:52,780 --> 00:48:56,780with a lot of the people that came and go at the West's home and this is gonna be at what's known as59500:48:56,780 --> 00:49:02,54025 Cromwell Street and it's believed that she was having sex with some of them and she was just59600:49:02,540 --> 00:49:10,220having fun and kind of live in you know a young girl's crazy life but one neighbor neighbor named59700:49:10,220 --> 00:49:16,780Mr. Wonsall or Wonsall he described Linda as quote unquote naive and he didn't feel like Linda59800:49:16,780 --> 00:49:22,460really understood the gravity of the situation that she was putting herself in she was only 19 years old59900:49:22,460 --> 00:49:30,860and wouldn't you know that in April of 1973 19 year old Linda would poof just vanish after she60000:49:30,860 --> 00:49:37,340went to go visit that apartment of the West's now her parents would just tell a local police officer60100:49:37,340 --> 00:49:43,980friend of theirs that she never returned home but she just flat out disappeared and was never seen60200:49:43,980 --> 00:49:51,740or heard from again after leaving to go visit the West's so then we move on to and I know I'm limiting60300:49:51,740 --> 00:49:55,980limited on details there there's a reason okay there's nothing much to tell at this moment60400:49:56,700 --> 00:50:02,380caroland Cooper was another female and she lived at a place called the pines children home and I did60500:50:02,380 --> 00:50:09,020look this up to kind of figure out exactly what it was and it seems to be like a group home I guess60600:50:09,020 --> 00:50:14,140but the kids are allowed to leave if they get their proper permission and that said she had been60700:50:14,140 --> 00:50:19,420given permission to spend the weekend with her grandmother so during the afternoon of November 10th60800:50:19,420 --> 00:50:26,4601973 Carol was allowed to go see her grandmother who then let her go to the movies with some of her60900:50:26,460 --> 00:50:33,820friends and she was last seen around 9 p.m. getting onto a bus which everyone assumes she was heading61000:50:33,820 --> 00:50:40,460home the next day she wasn't she still wasn't home and so her grandmother reported her missing61100:50:40,460 --> 00:50:48,700they did an extensive search but 15 year old carol was never seen or heard from again once she loaded61200:50:48,700 --> 00:50:57,900that bus or was waiting for that bus then we have Lucy partington Lucy was 19 years old and she had61300:50:57,900 --> 00:51:04,060left for college on December 20th of 1973 if you notice these are just months apart61400:51:04,060 --> 00:51:10,620Lucy returned home to spend some time with her family during the Christmas break and on December 27th61500:51:10,620 --> 00:51:15,820like most college young you know girls do she went to hang out with some of her hometown friends61600:51:16,700 --> 00:51:24,140and around 10 p.m. just like little 15 year old carol i just mentioned she left her friend's house61700:51:24,140 --> 00:51:29,340and she walked a short distance to where a bus stop was and her plan there was to catch a bus to61800:51:29,340 --> 00:51:37,580go back home and as you can guess Lucy never made it back home the next day her family reported her61900:51:37,580 --> 00:51:45,020missing again a major investigation was launched but Lucy was never traced never seen or never heard62000:51:45,020 --> 00:51:55,820from again 16 year old Teresa Seagand Thaler she was a high school dropout from what i've understood62100:51:55,820 --> 00:52:01,260this to be but she wasn't a stupid girl and she did continue her education she was actually studying62200:52:01,260 --> 00:52:07,500for diploma in what was called secretarial studies and she actually would even continue further62300:52:07,500 --> 00:52:13,820and become a sociology student and on the weekends she was working at a store at a local shopping center62400:52:13,820 --> 00:52:20,860and she was living again a normal life with small jobs like young girls her age would get in April of 197462500:52:20,860 --> 00:52:26,380she left she left a place where she was staying for you know her room and board62600:52:26,380 --> 00:52:32,140and she was intending to travel back home after she went for an Easter visit62700:52:32,140 --> 00:52:35,740she never even reached her destination62800:52:35,740 --> 00:52:43,740and she was due back to school basically after the Easter break and she never showed up there either62900:52:43,740 --> 00:52:48,540so she was reported missing by the police and i know i'm about to sound like a broken record but63000:52:48,540 --> 00:52:54,700an investigation was carried out for literally years they looked for her with no success she vanished63100:52:54,700 --> 00:52:57,740and was never seen or heard from again63200:52:57,740 --> 00:53:05,740Shirley Hubbard now she was born under the name Shirley Lloyd but she also went by the name63300:53:05,740 --> 00:53:09,820Shirley Owen so if you go research any of this you might say oh my god you got the name wrong she63400:53:09,820 --> 00:53:16,300well the homegirl changed her name a few times okay but in 1972 she was going by the name Shirley Hubbard63500:53:16,300 --> 00:53:21,900even though it wasn't her legal name and she was in high school and from what I understand she was63600:53:21,900 --> 00:53:27,660working at what we would consider to be like an internship program and on Friday November63700:53:27,660 --> 00:53:39,10014th of 1974 Shirley left work at a place called Deben Hams and was heading home she never made it home63800:53:39,100 --> 00:53:45,260she was listed as a missing person and a search was done for her i mean she was a young girl she was63900:53:45,260 --> 00:53:54,460only 15 years old and the search turned up nothing she was never seen or heard from again so real quick64000:53:54,460 --> 00:54:01,180Carol Cooper Lucy Partington Teresa Seagand Thaler and Shirley Hubbard all are missing all have gone64100:54:01,180 --> 00:54:07,900to take buses all are never seen or heard from again so now we have 18 year old Juanita Mat64200:54:07,900 --> 00:54:13,180she was going to an all-girl school which she left in 1972 and she had taken on a number of little64300:54:13,180 --> 00:54:17,980short term jobs she was working at a real retail shop she had also worked at an attorney's office64400:54:17,980 --> 00:54:24,540kind of like answering the phones doing secretary work but on April 11th of 1975 she left64500:54:24,540 --> 00:54:30,460the address of the home where she was then staying and no one's quite sure where she was heading that day64600:54:30,460 --> 00:54:36,940but she was for sure expected to return home the next day but she never did64700:54:37,740 --> 00:54:42,540and something that kind of hurt my heart for little Juanita was that she was never reported missing64800:54:42,540 --> 00:54:49,180to the police by anyone i guess a little solace could be achieved and that her family contacted the64900:54:49,180 --> 00:54:56,860missing persons bureau and they also talked to the media but she was never formally you know written65000:54:56,860 --> 00:55:03,020out as missing formally on paper and the details of her going missing because her parents went to the65100:55:03,020 --> 00:55:08,860media it was in articles and magazines and newspapers but she just up and disappeared whenever she left65200:55:08,860 --> 00:55:17,100on that bus and was never seen or heard from again we have a 16 year old Allison who was a very65300:55:17,100 --> 00:55:22,060driven young girl and she worked too at a law firm on her internship for youth who were aspiring65400:55:22,060 --> 00:55:28,220to be lawyers and the details of you know Allison's disappearance are not well known or documented65500:55:28,220 --> 00:55:32,460all we know is that she was reported to that missing persons bureau as well and65600:55:33,340 --> 00:55:39,340initially though she was reported to the police as an absconder which is basically like a runaway65700:55:39,340 --> 00:55:45,900and after she was reported as a runaway nothing ever came of it she was never seen or heard from65800:55:45,900 --> 00:55:49,980again and i know you're like okay Kelly well wow please don't get lost in the fact that these are65900:55:49,980 --> 00:55:54,220young girls that are going missing and there doesn't seem to be a clue as to where they're headed66000:55:54,220 --> 00:55:59,020and it doesn't even seem to be linked that these are young teen girls going to bus stops66100:55:59,020 --> 00:56:03,180and never being seen or heard from again that's what we in the biz would call a clue right66200:56:03,180 --> 00:56:10,540well one of the last people i'm going to mention in this list of missing girls was actually66300:56:10,540 --> 00:56:14,780going to be someone we know to be a victim of the west and it's even harder to comprehend66400:56:14,780 --> 00:56:20,780because the name of this victim might lean some credence as to why but her name is Heather West66500:56:23,100 --> 00:56:29,660Heather was born in 1970 and she was actually the first biological child of rose and fred66600:56:29,660 --> 00:56:36,540and she lived with her family until they moved to that cromwell street i mentioned earlier in 197266700:56:36,540 --> 00:56:44,300and Heather's life seems to be a whole lot like what her her half-sister you know Ann Marie66800:56:44,300 --> 00:56:50,780Ann Marie's life was like because when there were Ann Marie's or half-sister she was born to66900:56:51,580 --> 00:56:59,260another mother which was fred's first wife and then fred's first wife went missing and she was raised67000:56:59,260 --> 00:57:09,020by rose and fred now Heather was subjected to all sorts of abuse from physical to emotional to67100:57:09,020 --> 00:57:14,540sexual and beyond just like Ann Marie was but Ann Marie left the home when she was 15 her younger67200:57:14,540 --> 00:57:20,300sister Heather was not as lucky and she remained in that house of horrors with her parents until she67300:57:20,300 --> 00:57:28,620went missing she was last seen on June 19th of 1987 when she was 16 years old and this is sad too67400:57:28,620 --> 00:57:36,780she was never reported as missing to the police she just poof up and vanished and fred and rose67500:57:36,780 --> 00:57:43,500never said anything but they wouldn't right they wouldn't have said anything because they were67600:57:43,500 --> 00:57:48,940telling a story to people anyone that would ask that she had run away from home or that she had67700:57:48,940 --> 00:57:55,340eloped at 16 years old I don't know where you're from when you're 16 years old we call it snatch67800:57:55,340 --> 00:57:59,420and a knot in your ass down here in the south my mama I don't care if I'm 30 years old if I'm acting67900:57:59,420 --> 00:58:05,340up my mama come get me 16 year olds and you're just gonna say oh she ran away girl get out of my68000:58:05,340 --> 00:58:10,620way because mama's coming to get you and snatch that proverbial knot in your ass take you back home68100:58:10,620 --> 00:58:18,300all right so all of these people have gone missing and no one knows what's happened to them68200:58:19,180 --> 00:58:28,300well a few years later as fate would have it the West children that are remaining in the home were68300:58:28,300 --> 00:58:37,340placed into foster care for neglect and suspected abuse and this would be in the summer of 199268400:58:37,340 --> 00:58:42,300now remember me earlier stating that kids who are abused aren't likely to speak up when their68500:58:42,300 --> 00:58:47,900abusers are in charge of them not to mention that convoluted mental and emotional abuse the kids68600:58:47,900 --> 00:58:53,740were experiencing at the hands of rose and fret right well remove them from that environment and68700:58:53,740 --> 00:59:00,220what do you know the kids got a taste of normalcy and as time went on they started to let their guard down68800:59:00,220 --> 00:59:06,300well when they let their guard down they started talking more and that said in the presence of their68900:59:06,300 --> 00:59:12,860foster care parents the children would make offhand comments about the family joke they all shared69000:59:12,860 --> 00:59:20,300about missing headers whereabouts now how could you possibly have your missing sister be funny69100:59:20,300 --> 00:59:28,620right and worse than that is the joke itself okay the joke was that their sister was buried in the69200:59:28,620 --> 00:59:35,340family garden now knowing what you know now as I'm armchair quarterbacking this story this would seem69300:59:35,340 --> 00:59:40,140rather obvious of an issue right for the kids to be saying this but that's not the case for the69400:59:40,140 --> 00:59:46,860people who were living in the moment it didn't strike them a strange however as time went on and the69500:59:46,860 --> 00:59:53,580kids kept saying the same thing it did kind of raise a few eyebrows and so the foster parents and69600:59:53,580 --> 00:59:58,620the social workers began to start documenting it when the kids would say it and over the next year69700:59:58,620 --> 01:00:04,860social workers documented the children's comments and considering their stories didn't change multiple69801:00:04,860 --> 01:00:10,540children were saying it and the fact that the people they were talking about were missing the police69901:00:10,540 --> 01:00:16,620believed that their comments were enough to open a legit investigation so in the summer of 199370001:00:16,620 --> 01:00:20,940police began to search for Heather who was never officially reported missing by either parent70101:00:20,940 --> 01:00:26,860and when they questioned Fred he scoffed at the idea and claimed that he had just seen Heather a few70201:00:26,860 --> 01:00:31,900days before they launched this new inquiry about her whereabouts but unable to have Heather show up70301:00:31,900 --> 01:00:38,860or make any actual contact with her police weren't buying it you can imagine you know you can you70401:00:38,860 --> 01:00:43,260can continue to bleed your own lies but Carm is a bitch my friend and they weren't gonna70501:00:43,260 --> 01:00:49,260buy these lies they weren't children they were adults right looking for this missing girl so when70601:00:49,260 --> 01:00:54,700the new search for Heather turned up empty the police were able to obtain an and execute a search70701:00:54,700 --> 01:01:01,340warrant on the West residents at 25 Cromwell Street the kids were still claiming the family joke70801:01:01,340 --> 01:01:07,900was that she was buried in the garden so on February of 1994 a search warrant was obtained by detective70901:01:07,900 --> 01:01:14,700Terry Moore and detectives detective Tony James and they accompanied approximately 15 other officers71001:01:14,700 --> 01:01:19,420to the home where they encountered Rosemary West and they advised her that they were going to be71101:01:19,420 --> 01:01:23,980searching her rear garden in connection with the disappearance of her daughter Heather West71201:01:23,980 --> 01:01:30,220now at that time Fred was about to leave work but he never came home rather he went71301:01:30,220 --> 01:01:36,220directly to the police station and gave a voluntary statement the detective who took that statement71401:01:36,220 --> 01:01:41,580was named detective Savage which is sick if I was a detective I'd want to be detective Savage71501:01:41,580 --> 01:01:47,340but anyway he took the the the statement on the disappearance of Heather and that's whenever he had71601:01:47,340 --> 01:01:53,740claimed oh I just saw Heather in a nearby town this is ridiculous Latida well about that same71701:01:53,740 --> 01:01:58,780time Rosemary West was being interviewed at home and they were tape recording her interview71801:01:59,500 --> 01:02:04,540so when Fred was done being interviewed he returned home and then they did what any parents of a71901:02:04,540 --> 01:02:09,420missing child would do they got their dog and they went for a walk and they walked their dogs72001:02:09,420 --> 01:02:15,820whatever the police are gonna dig in my backyard and I'm gonna go walk my dogs makes perfect sense to72101:02:15,820 --> 01:02:19,980me you know when someone's trying so hard to act like they're not involved in something that it's72201:02:19,980 --> 01:02:24,220ridiculous how they do behave I'd be wild and out like don't you tear up my flowers what are you doing72301:02:24,220 --> 01:02:30,140you know the following day detectives met Fred West at his front door and they explain look we got72401:02:30,140 --> 01:02:35,340some more questions about some of your relatives and so he lets them in and they go into a living room72501:02:35,340 --> 01:02:40,700where Rosemary is watching television and so they start asking some questions but when they ask72601:02:40,700 --> 01:02:47,420Rose about her mother she becomes uncooperative and flat out indignant about why they're asking all72701:02:47,420 --> 01:02:53,580these questions well Fred grabs her and says go out into the hallway we need to have a private72801:02:53,580 --> 01:02:58,620discussion and they shut the door behind them while the officers remained in that living room and after72901:02:58,620 --> 01:03:04,380a few seconds he returned and said can we just go to the police station so the officers walked out73001:03:04,380 --> 01:03:09,260of the front door with Fred and got into a police car that was parked out outside of the house73101:03:09,260 --> 01:03:15,420and it was right then that Fred astonishingly admitted yeah Heather is dead and I buried her in73201:03:15,420 --> 01:03:23,820the garden like what you just spill the beans just like that and then he just matter of fact we73301:03:23,820 --> 01:03:28,700explain look the police are just looking in the wrong place his dead daughter is in his backyard73401:03:28,700 --> 01:03:34,620and they're just digging in the wrong place so detective savage arrested Fred for the murder of his73501:03:34,620 --> 01:03:46,300daughter and Fred had such devotion to his beloved Rose that he even is reported to have told their73601:03:46,300 --> 01:03:54,460son Stephen just before he was going off to the police and this is a quote look son look after mom73701:03:54,460 --> 01:04:00,140and sell the house I've done something really bad I want you to go to the papers and make as much73801:04:00,140 --> 01:04:08,300money as you possibly can so now this dude's trying to cash in on his evilness on the flip side73901:04:08,300 --> 01:04:15,340rosemary also immediately called and Marie that they had been raping and torturing and all that good74001:04:15,340 --> 01:04:21,900stuff and told her she better shut her mouth and not say anything about her father because he had74101:04:21,900 --> 01:04:27,500been arrested so he was taken to the police station and he was detained there and later rosemary74201:04:27,500 --> 01:04:33,260west was arrested at home on suspicion of the murder of Heather west by detective onions which is74301:04:33,260 --> 01:04:38,940almost comical but that's his real name so we got savage and onions handling business okay in this case74401:04:38,940 --> 01:04:45,100so she was taken to the police station and she was interviewed by detective onions but she vehemently74501:04:45,100 --> 01:04:51,020denied knowing anything about the murder of Heather well Fred was interviewed again and when that74601:04:51,020 --> 01:04:56,780happened he gave some explanation about the circumstances surrounding Heather's death and then74701:04:56,780 --> 01:05:02,860accompanied the detectives back to the house garden where they then roughly kind of indicated the area74801:05:02,860 --> 01:05:09,020where Heather should be in the backyard so officers were digging in the rear garden and then74901:05:09,020 --> 01:05:16,700close to the surface right around the location where Fred pointed a human bone was found so they75001:05:16,700 --> 01:05:22,380took that bone to the police station and the pathologist there his name was professor Bernard night75101:05:22,380 --> 01:05:29,100he confirmed yes this is a human bone and this is a femur so he went back with the police to the home75201:05:29,100 --> 01:05:33,980and he continued to excavate the remainder of the remains which were determined later on to be that75301:05:33,980 --> 01:05:41,900of Heather west and when the remains were excavated both femurs found were found to be present75401:05:41,900 --> 01:05:51,580so and Marie right that sister that had moved out when she was 15 do you know she found out about75501:05:51,580 --> 01:05:58,300her father being arrested and then found out that her sister indeed had not run away but was dead75601:05:58,300 --> 01:06:05,420and buried in the garden under the patio on her own child's birthday she was having a birthday75701:06:05,420 --> 01:06:11,740party for her daughter when the call would come in from the police they were lighting the cake and75801:06:11,740 --> 01:06:15,740the candles and getting ready to sing happy birthday to her child and I want to say this is a75901:06:15,740 --> 01:06:22,380testament to how tough this girl is this girl turned woman do you know she never stopped the party76001:06:22,380 --> 01:06:28,780for her child she found out oh my god my sister is not run away she's dead she was buried in our back76101:06:28,780 --> 01:06:37,260yard and she hung up the phone she said she went to the bathroom she collected herself and then she76201:06:37,260 --> 01:06:42,620walked out and continued the party like nothing had happened but then afterwards after she saved face76301:06:42,620 --> 01:06:47,900for her child and gave the best party she could and after everyone left she said she sat down and76401:06:47,900 --> 01:06:55,260just thought my god they called me by phone to tell me my sister was buried in my back yard that I76501:06:55,260 --> 01:07:00,700grew up in that was a bit insensitive and I would agree with her on that I think all death notifications76601:07:00,700 --> 01:07:09,340should be done in person if if the circumstances are available and she said she was really hurt too76701:07:09,340 --> 01:07:14,540because her sister Heather had asked her right before her disappearance if she could come live with her76801:07:14,540 --> 01:07:20,700and she told her no but the reason she told her no was because she was afraid that if she76901:07:20,700 --> 01:07:27,340brought her with you know brought her home with her she was afraid that Rose and Fred would show up77001:07:27,340 --> 01:07:33,580and take her back to their house and was afraid they might really end up hurting Heather so the whole time77101:07:33,580 --> 01:07:40,620she thought she was protecting her sister it really in reality kind of went the other way and I can77201:07:40,620 --> 01:07:44,220imagine how much pain that must leave on your shoulders to know your sister was begging to live with77301:07:44,220 --> 01:07:49,260you and you told her no thinking it was protective and then she ends up dead and buried in the back yard77401:07:49,260 --> 01:07:58,540now Fred being the father of the year that he is would also tell Anne Marie later on that Rose had77501:07:58,540 --> 01:08:05,020said she wanted to get a fish pond in the back yard like a small little coy pond you know and so Heather77601:08:05,020 --> 01:08:13,020and Stephen the brother went out there and they dug and created the big hole for the fish pond77701:08:13,020 --> 01:08:18,940and then they put down this blue like you know plastic liner and then Fred let Anne Marie know77801:08:18,940 --> 01:08:22,860that Rose abruptly decided that she had changed her mind and she didn't want the fish pond anymore77901:08:22,860 --> 01:08:31,020never mind but in reality what Heather and Stephen didn't know was that Heather had just dug her own grave78001:08:31,020 --> 01:08:38,460he told that to Anne Marie he also mentioned that before they dumped her in that hole that they cut78101:08:38,460 --> 01:08:43,660her sister in half and placed her in garbage cans until they decided how they were going to actually78201:08:43,660 --> 01:08:50,060bury her what did he think he was getting gaining by telling her that I have no clue78301:08:51,180 --> 01:08:56,060and there was a neighbor named Jane Hammer and she came forward with some interesting information to78401:08:56,060 --> 01:09:01,660add about the West household and this is some quotes that she she gave she said I got to know Fred78501:09:01,660 --> 01:09:07,660fairly well Rose Mary was harder to get on with and very domineering very curt and she seemed like a78601:09:07,660 --> 01:09:14,060very controlling person she definitely ruled the roost she went on to say I heard screaming in the78701:09:14,060 --> 01:09:19,580middle of the night and stop it daddy stop it daddy it sounded like one of the younger children78801:09:20,300 --> 01:09:26,860this was my reason for leaving I thought I might be next Fred once took me down to the cellar and showed it to78901:09:26,860 --> 01:09:31,500me there was a little bed in there and I thought it was for children and I found out later it wasn't79001:09:31,500 --> 01:09:40,460when I look back now I wonder why I was baby sitting sorry boom when I look back now I wonder why I was79101:09:40,460 --> 01:09:46,460babysitting the children what were Fred and Rose Mary doing maybe they were going out to find victims79201:09:46,460 --> 01:09:52,060oh my god y'all hindsight is 2020 imagine how creepy here in those poor kids screen stop it79301:09:52,060 --> 01:09:59,500and all the while he's doing horrible things to them Fred was then again interviewed but this time79401:09:59,500 --> 01:10:04,300he's retracted his admission of killing Heather but after a little bit he then retracted his79501:10:04,300 --> 01:10:10,380retraction and admitted to the murder again so he's like Waffelon back and forth and there was an79601:10:10,380 --> 01:10:18,700issue though see when they found Heather's femur they found a third one and no one had made mention79701:10:18,700 --> 01:10:23,900of the fact that Heather had three legs so it couldn't have been Heather's right so there were three79801:10:23,900 --> 01:10:32,060total femurs uh oh Freddy that ain't good he was questioned about that femur found in the garden79901:10:32,060 --> 01:10:38,140and then promptly admitted to killing and burying a person that he called Shirley Robinson and now as80001:10:38,140 --> 01:10:45,020you can see the proverb the proverbial poop is hitting the fan my friends because I believe he admitted80101:10:45,020 --> 01:10:50,540to killing Heather in that moment because he wanted to make it just stop after they dug up her one80201:10:50,540 --> 01:10:56,300body and he figured okay I'll take the wrap for Heather Rose will be you know left at home and I'll80301:10:56,300 --> 01:11:01,500be the bad guy and he'll be over with they won't keep digging but the problem was that third femur80401:11:01,500 --> 01:11:09,100popped up and he had to explain for it so he admitted that he killed and had strangled a person that he80501:11:09,100 --> 01:11:16,620described as a friend of Shirley Robinson this person ended up being that Allison Chambers and I80601:11:16,620 --> 01:11:21,580want you to note that the investigation was never able to even establish a link between Allison80701:11:21,580 --> 01:11:28,380Chambers and Shirley Robinson and we uh Fred just got his crap wrong because the truth was that80801:11:28,380 --> 01:11:36,060Shirley disappeared in May of 78 and Allison didn't even come to that area to live until January80901:11:36,060 --> 01:11:39,820so it couldn't have been true it's hard to keep your murders in law straight ain't it81001:11:39,820 --> 01:11:46,700so Rose Mary West was then also arrested for the murders of Shirley Robinson and the unknown81101:11:46,700 --> 01:11:52,700female who would turn out to be Allison Chambers so they took Fred back to the Cromwell Street81201:11:52,700 --> 01:11:59,180address and he indicated where he had buried Shirley and Allison he was in further question about81301:11:59,180 --> 01:12:06,540Heather's murder to which he said was done without Rose Mary West's knowledge and Rose would make81401:12:06,540 --> 01:12:14,380bail about 10 o'clock in the morning on April the 25th of 94 that same day Fred was interviewed and81501:12:14,380 --> 01:12:19,980he explained how he killed Shirley Robinson which the details were not exactly clear on that so I81601:12:19,980 --> 01:12:24,060don't I don't have much to add to that but we know that he did say he strangled her and that he you81701:12:24,060 --> 01:12:31,180know killed her that professor Bernard Knight attended the house and he again started examining the81801:12:31,180 --> 01:12:37,660remains that they found and did a forensic examination the following Wednesday which would have been81901:12:37,660 --> 01:12:42,860March the 2nd detectives received information from a member of the public that there was a person82001:12:42,860 --> 01:12:49,500who had gone missing named Linda go and that she had stayed with Fred and Fred flat out denied the82101:12:49,500 --> 01:12:54,540saying I don't even know who Linda is I've never heard that name before in my life but then the next day82201:12:54,540 --> 01:12:59,820Fred was interviewed again and he got caught up and he ended up admitting okay yeah I do no Linda but82301:12:59,820 --> 01:13:06,540I didn't do anything to her she just moved away well on March 4th which was two days later they82401:13:06,540 --> 01:13:12,460police brought in ground scanning equipment and that's when Fred really started sweating the82501:13:12,460 --> 01:13:21,180pressure okay and he ended up giving in he gave a handwritten note to detective Bennett and it stated82601:13:21,180 --> 01:13:28,140this is a quote I Frederick West authorized my attorney Howard Ogden to advise superintendant82701:13:28,140 --> 01:13:37,020Bennett that I wish to admit to a further approximate nine killings expressly Charmaine Reena Linda82801:13:37,020 --> 01:13:44,300go and others to be identified and it was a it was signed F West and I can't say that I don't agree82901:13:44,300 --> 01:13:51,340with that sentiment F U West he was then interviewed and admitted killing and bearing Linda go83001:13:51,340 --> 01:13:59,020Reena and Charmaine remember his eight-year-old daughter he also gave an explanation about how Lucy83101:13:59,020 --> 01:14:05,340Partington was killed so detectives took Fred back to the house again but this time you know word83201:14:05,340 --> 01:14:09,740was starting to get out so they had to dress him similar to the police search team so it wouldn't83301:14:09,740 --> 01:14:14,860draw attention to who his real identity was so they get him on the on the scene and then he started83401:14:14,860 --> 01:14:19,900pointing out where the other bodies would be buried and then they returned him back to the police83501:14:19,900 --> 01:14:26,940station and I want to add this in eight-year-old little Charmaine that Rose Mary killed she was lucky to83601:14:26,940 --> 01:14:31,740have a sister like Anne Marie because when her remains were found first of all Anne Marie was83701:14:31,740 --> 01:14:40,220absolutely devastated but she found she made sure that little Charmaine would be laid to rest with83801:14:40,220 --> 01:14:46,460her mother's remains and she saw to it that they were put in the same coffin because she said they83901:14:46,460 --> 01:14:52,460didn't get to be together in life and she wanted them to be together forever in the afterlife.84001:14:52,460 --> 01:15:00,220Now interesting enough Fred would actually contact Anne Marie and claim how annoyed he was that she84101:15:00,220 --> 01:15:07,260handled the funeral because Charmaine was his child and after all no one seemed to realize that he84201:15:07,260 --> 01:15:14,220was actually the biggest victim of anyone in this entire case he lost a daughter actually too84301:15:14,220 --> 01:15:23,580and an ex-wife. You know Anne Marie wanted to bring the the the remains home with her because84401:15:23,580 --> 01:15:27,420after the service she wanted to have them cremated together and bring their bring their remains84501:15:27,420 --> 01:15:33,580home with her and Fred got really mad saying that they needed to be put in the family plot and then84601:15:33,580 --> 01:15:40,060he said to her that when you die Anne Marie please promise me that you'll be put in the plot too84701:15:40,060 --> 01:15:45,820and that's when she looked at him and said you know what dad I'm sorry I can't make that promise to you.84801:15:45,820 --> 01:15:52,140Can you imagine like you kill all these people and then you think you're a victim and then84901:15:52,140 --> 01:15:59,260somehow you want to exercise your control over their remains absolutely incredible. So later the85001:15:59,260 --> 01:16:04,860remains of a person that would be identified as that missing Teresa Seaganthaler she was found in85101:16:04,860 --> 01:16:12,460the cellar of the home as well. Fred was then taken to another field another site away from the home85201:16:12,460 --> 01:16:20,060and that's where he pointed out an area where his first wife Catherine Rina was buried and that same85301:16:20,060 --> 01:16:28,540day the remains of Shirley Hubbard were found in the cellar of the West home as well. Then on March 6th85401:16:28,540 --> 01:16:38,220the remains of Lucy Partington and Juanita Mott were found in the cellar. Now Lucy was actually in85501:16:38,220 --> 01:16:43,660the cellar Juanita Mott her remains were found under the the staircase of the cellar.85601:16:45,420 --> 01:16:50,460They found that Teresa Seaganthaler's body was in concrete like encased in concrete and she was85701:16:50,460 --> 01:16:55,820in front of a false fireplace in the left hand corner of the cellar and I do have some pictures of85801:16:55,820 --> 01:17:03,180that cellar that I will post to you so you can kind of see what I'm talking about. Then on March 8th85901:17:03,180 --> 01:17:08,940the remains of Carol Ann Cooper were found in that cellar as well and detectives concluded that the86001:17:08,940 --> 01:17:13,660West had actually picked her up while she was hitchhiking and brought her to their home and once they86101:17:13,660 --> 01:17:18,380got her there they attacked her they tied her up they raped her and then tortured her to death.86201:17:18,380 --> 01:17:25,980Fred was again taken back to the home and then he pointed out where a quote unquote girl was buried.86301:17:25,980 --> 01:17:33,100Two days later the remains of Linda Goe were taken from underground and they were actually86401:17:33,100 --> 01:17:37,740underneath what was called a bathroom area or was described as a bathroom area in the home.86501:17:39,020 --> 01:17:47,100So they started interviewing Fred again and at this point he they started talking about Anne McFall86601:17:47,100 --> 01:17:52,300and he explained yeah I knew Anne McFall but I didn't kill her I don't know anything about86701:17:52,300 --> 01:17:58,140what happened to her but then on the next you know the next flip of the coin he indicated the86801:17:58,140 --> 01:18:02,380position where he thought she might be buried but then when he realized what he had done he couldn't86901:18:02,380 --> 01:18:07,820explain precisely how he knew this or how she met her death. Can you imagine killing so many people87001:18:07,820 --> 01:18:14,300you can't even remember how you killed them or where they're buried in saying. So much digging was done87101:18:14,300 --> 01:18:21,980around this house that they had to get advice from a civil engineer before they could continue digging87201:18:21,980 --> 01:18:26,460because they were worried that the house was going to collapse around the digging and all the bodies87301:18:26,460 --> 01:18:32,540that they were pulling out of it and when it was all said and done over 11 tons of concrete had to87401:18:32,540 --> 01:18:37,740be brought in and and reef you know backfilled so that the house wouldn't collapse while they87501:18:37,740 --> 01:18:44,700continued looking for more bodies. So in March of 1994 Fred was charged with the murders of87601:18:44,700 --> 01:18:52,700Allison Chambers and when they pulled her body out they found a leather belt tied around her skull.87701:18:52,700 --> 01:18:59,180So you can imagine she was being hung by her head or whatever with that with that belt and he was87801:18:59,180 --> 01:19:05,900also charged with Lucy Partington's death, Juanita Mott's death and Linda Goes' death. Then in April87901:19:05,900 --> 01:19:12,540Fred was charged with the murder of Teresa Segan Thaler and when they pulled her body out there was a88001:19:12,540 --> 01:19:20,540knotted cloth rolled to form a loop kind of next to her body it was next to her skull and so basically88101:19:20,540 --> 01:19:25,820they started finding the tools used to kill each individual person buried with the person if that's88201:19:25,820 --> 01:19:33,340not horrific enough and then he was also charged with Shirley Hubbard and the bones of Shirley Hubbard88301:19:33,340 --> 01:19:41,020remember she was 15 they were discovered and her skull was encased in a mask her skull was completely88401:19:41,020 --> 01:19:48,460wrapped in a mask of brown packing packaging tape like when you're mailing a package and then inside88501:19:48,460 --> 01:19:54,380of that tape the tubes that were shelved up her nose and then bent up for her to breathe through88601:19:54,380 --> 01:20:01,980were still taped to her skull. The remains of Catherine Costello were also identified in that same88701:20:01,980 --> 01:20:08,220month and they do believe that she too was strangled but she was also dismembered and her fingers and88801:20:08,220 --> 01:20:13,980toes had been removed. So I want to ask you something real quick have you ever had a bad week and88901:20:13,980 --> 01:20:19,340you're like oh my god this is the worst week ever. Well they say aye because I want you to listen to89001:20:19,340 --> 01:20:23,980the week old Rose had all right and I'm gonna give you dates I don't mean to bog you down with them89101:20:23,980 --> 01:20:29,820but I just was kind of amused by her week okay check this out. On Sunday April 24th Rose was89201:20:29,820 --> 01:20:36,060arrested with the murder of Linda Goh and that's when she replied I'm innocent. Then on Monday89301:20:36,060 --> 01:20:43,260April 25th she was charged with a murder of Linda Goh. On Tuesday April 26th she was charged with89401:20:43,260 --> 01:20:49,020the murder of Carol Ann Cooper to which she replied I'm innocent. Then on Thursday the 28th she was89501:20:49,020 --> 01:20:55,180charged with a murder of Lucy K. Partington and replied I'm innocent. On Saturday the 30th she was89601:20:55,180 --> 01:21:02,460charged with a murder of Teresa Seagand Thaler and replied I'm innocent. Then on Wednesday may 4th89701:21:02,460 --> 01:21:06,620she was charged with a murder of Shirley Hubbard. This time she didn't make any reply89801:21:06,620 --> 01:21:13,900and then that same day searchers found human remains which were later found to be those of89901:21:13,900 --> 01:21:20,860Charmaine West. She was further charged with the murders of Carol Ann Cooper and Lucy Partington.90001:21:20,860 --> 01:21:24,780What a freaking week right almost every day the week you're charged with a murder.90101:21:24,780 --> 01:21:32,380Ugh what a waste of oxygen that woman was. Now well Freddie he likes right notes it seems because90201:21:32,380 --> 01:21:37,980he again at this time like all these days later he again handed another note to the police and90301:21:37,980 --> 01:21:43,660this is what it said I have not and still cannot tell you the whole truth from the very90401:21:43,660 --> 01:21:49,660first day of this inquiry my main concern has been to protect another person or person so I guess90501:21:49,660 --> 01:21:54,700he's trying to be all strong in mighty head of the household and protect Rose. Well he did a bad90601:21:54,700 --> 01:22:00,540job of it because then on June 3rd Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont to which she90701:22:00,540 --> 01:22:07,820also said I'm innocent by the way. Then on May 11th Fred was charged with the murder of Charmaine West90801:22:08,780 --> 01:22:15,340between May 16th and May 26th Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont Shirley Robinson90901:22:15,340 --> 01:22:24,140Allison Chambers and Heather West. Then on June 2nd 1994 Frederick West appeared in court where91001:22:24,140 --> 01:22:28,620nine murder chargers had now been amended to joint charges with Rose Mary West.91101:22:28,620 --> 01:22:35,420Five days after that court date officers were digging in what was called the finger post field91201:22:35,420 --> 01:22:42,140and they found more remains these remains were identified as Anne Mcfalls. Fred was charged91301:22:42,140 --> 01:22:49,420and then Fred and Rose appeared together in court. Fred was then charged with 11 counts of murder91401:22:49,420 --> 01:22:52,940Rose Mary was charged with nine as well as other sexual offenses.91501:22:52,940 --> 01:23:01,500And then on Friday May 12th of 1995 Rose Mary West attended a pre-trial hearing where she formally91601:23:01,500 --> 01:23:08,140pleaded not guilty. Now there were some changes back and forth as to Fred's legal you know his91701:23:08,140 --> 01:23:14,460defense team so as all of this was being set into motion Fred was still sitting in jail awaiting91801:23:14,460 --> 01:23:23,820his formal day in court that however would never happen. See I want to point out that the complexity91901:23:23,820 --> 01:23:30,940of being a living victim of a parent the way Anne Marie was is shown in the fact that she would still92001:23:30,940 --> 01:23:37,820actually go visit her father even after he had been arrested even after he you know all these92101:23:37,820 --> 01:23:45,020bodies started turning up including hit her sisters her mother and one of the last time she went92201:23:45,020 --> 01:23:51,340to visit him he asked her if she would do him a favor and she asked what it was and he said could92301:23:51,340 --> 01:23:56,220you please stop saying things to the media and instead can you help create me an alibi?92401:23:56,940 --> 01:24:05,340Crayby an alibi for what happened and she told him no dad I'm not gonna do it I can't say that92501:24:05,340 --> 01:24:11,180and I won't do it. So then Fred began to cry right because he's a victim92601:24:11,180 --> 01:24:17,340and Anne Marie reached up and kind of wiped the tears from his face and said dad please don't cry92701:24:17,340 --> 01:24:23,420and you know you didn't do this by yourself you did this with Rose which is kind of sad because92801:24:23,420 --> 01:24:28,460it's like she's trying to justify I don't know the the man she thought he was in some weird way92901:24:28,460 --> 01:24:35,660and he responded her and said I know but then he said you know it don't worry about it never mind93001:24:35,660 --> 01:24:41,260I'll get out of here one way or another and that's when Fred was returned to his cell where on93101:24:41,260 --> 01:24:48,300January 1st 1995 he was found dead in his jail cell his calls of death ruled a suicide by hanging93201:24:49,500 --> 01:24:57,820and this makes me extremely angry not because he didn't you know do his time that's not even why mad93301:24:57,820 --> 01:25:04,220what I feel like is that this was absolute manipulation at its finest to make his surviving93401:25:04,220 --> 01:25:12,140daughter believe that she somehow caused his death she you know and she says I felt horrible I told him93501:25:12,140 --> 01:25:15,580I wouldn't make an alibi I wouldn't do this and that and then he goes back and he kills himself93601:25:16,780 --> 01:25:23,660just a final way of trying to just bring blame on herself and she's lost so much this girl's lost93701:25:23,660 --> 01:25:28,940her sisters she's lost her mother she's lost her father she's lost the stepmother even though93801:25:28,940 --> 01:25:33,020when much of a loss in my opinion but then he's gonna say you know what since you can't make me an alibi93901:25:33,020 --> 01:25:36,940don't worry about it I'll get out of here one way or another and then kills himself and she feels94001:25:36,940 --> 01:25:44,460some sense of remorse for that ridiculous ridiculous for him to do that with a selfish coward you are94101:25:44,460 --> 01:25:51,580you could even face the consequences now he wasn't one to also leave the last word to someone else right94201:25:51,580 --> 01:25:57,740so he did leave a suicide note and was that suicide note for his beloved children who had lost their94301:25:57,740 --> 01:26:04,300lives at his own hands or that had been victimized by him you know was it a letter of sorrow to those94401:26:04,300 --> 01:26:09,260with whom he had killed with his wife and had tortured and raped to death and terrified94501:26:09,900 --> 01:26:19,500of course not why would that be his suicide note his suicide note was a final love letter94601:26:19,500 --> 01:26:26,300to his wife and then it also contained one final horrifying wish and I'm gonna read it to you so94701:26:26,300 --> 01:26:32,140that you can know what his suicide note said verbatim his note read as follows94801:26:32,140 --> 01:26:38,460well rose it's your birthday on November 29th 1994 and you will be 4194901:26:39,100 --> 01:26:46,060and still beautiful and still lovely and I love you we will always be in love the most wonderful95001:26:46,060 --> 01:26:53,260thing in my life was when I met you our love is special to us so love keep your promises to me95101:26:53,260 --> 01:27:01,020you know what they are where we are put together forever and ever is up to you we loved Heather both95201:27:01,020 --> 01:27:08,540of us I would love Charmaine to be with Heather and Reena you will always be Miss West all over the world95301:27:08,940 --> 01:27:15,580that's important to me and to you I haven't got you a present but all I have is my life I will give95401:27:15,580 --> 01:27:20,300it to you my darling when you are ready come to me I will be waiting for you95501:27:20,300 --> 01:27:29,980get the fuck out of here man good riddance underneath the note too he was a drawing of a grave stone with95601:27:29,980 --> 01:27:38,140the words in loving memory Fred West rose west and it said rest in peace where no shadow falls in perfect95701:27:38,140 --> 01:27:47,660peace he waits for rose his wife okay sorry if not touched by your love letter I guess you could95801:27:47,660 --> 01:27:54,220argue it was romantic in a way if it wasn't completely insane that he never mentioned the victims95901:27:54,220 --> 01:27:59,100or is wrongdoing he overshadows the fact that he murdered the very people he wanted to be buried96001:27:59,100 --> 01:28:04,460with and this you know in my opinion is because he wanted to own them he wanted them in his presence96101:28:04,460 --> 01:28:12,940forever and to have final control so Fred's dead and Rose went on trial on October 3rd of 199596201:28:12,940 --> 01:28:19,740where the jury unanimously found her guilty on 10 separate counts of murder on November 22nd 199596301:28:19,740 --> 01:28:27,500she was later sentenced to life in prison without parole and Rose refused to accept her fate and she96401:28:27,500 --> 01:28:36,780launched this whole appeal situation in 1996 and in 2000 and her claims were that there was a whole96501:28:36,780 --> 01:28:40,780bunch of new evidence that had come to light that could clear her and then she made the argument96601:28:40,780 --> 01:28:47,660that the the huge media attention had prevented her from receiving a fair trial but in 1996 that96701:28:47,660 --> 01:28:51,980first appeal was rejected and then she dropped them one later on that she had in 2000 and she remains96801:28:51,980 --> 01:28:57,740incarcerated to this day how each of the victims died exactly isn't known and the only two people96901:28:57,740 --> 01:29:03,180who do know took a lot of information to their grave and their prison cell respectively no matter97001:29:03,180 --> 01:29:10,060the exact details the truth is that abuse and torture where the goal and death was the end result97101:29:10,060 --> 01:29:16,700for every person that was abused by them throughout all of the death and the destruction in the97201:29:16,700 --> 01:29:22,620West path I was proud of their daughter Anne Marie for finally standing up to her parents she refused97301:29:22,620 --> 01:29:29,420to bow down to Fred's wants and demands and he killed himself when he was forced to face the consequences97401:29:29,420 --> 01:29:36,300of his own actions what a coward you know he prayed on young girls and he never thought he would97501:29:36,300 --> 01:29:43,740be held accountable for over 20 years the West went undetected in their depravity they never counted97601:29:43,740 --> 01:29:50,300on the child they scared raped and abused staining her ground when it was all said and done97701:29:50,300 --> 01:29:56,860she refused to make an alibi for him and she refused to hide the truth I'm proud of her for that97801:29:56,860 --> 01:30:04,220and for Rose to think that she could get away with her despicable actions sorry honey97901:30:04,220 --> 01:30:12,940it didn't happen and hey I wrote you a little point roses are red and violets are blue I've got five98001:30:12,940 --> 01:30:28,940fingers and the middle ones for you