Obsessed: Zachariah Anderson

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims, whose cases are
so shocking that many are left wondering how

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is this even real? I use
my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and

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combined with my years as a criminal
justice educator, dig deep into complex cases

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of evil acts, some so evil
many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences.
If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is
advised. Hey y'all, OKJ you're back

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for another episode. What's going on
with you? Listen? I'm not proud

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of myself, but I have to
tell y'all a story. Now. If

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you're friends with me in real life, then you're gonna already know this one.

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But I have got to share it
with the listeners because honesty is the

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best policy. And I just need
you to know that my grandmother invited me

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to the nursing home to her Christmas
party. This was last week, and

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so I went, and I was
so happy to be there. I was

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gonna tear it down. I was
gonna roll her around in her wheelchair.

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We're gonna have a great time.
Well, during the time that I was

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there, I started smelling something that
smelled bad, and y'all, I don't

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like stinky, and so I looked
over my grandma. I said, what

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does that smell? And she looked
at me and she said, I why

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would I know? And I said, well, I don't know, but

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I keep smelling it when I'm near
you. She said it was not mean.

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You better watch your mouth. So
I walked away, and then sure

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enough I smelled it again, so
it couldn't have been my grandma. So

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I look over my kids and I'm
like, quit farting on me, y'all,

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you're ruining my time here. I'm
trying to enjoy, you know,

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my grandma blah blah blah, And
so they started fussing at me, saying

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it wasn't me. Long story short, y'all. I blamed everybody in that

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nursing home. I started looking at
random old ladies and be like, I

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think it's her, she sinks yo. I got so mad. We left.

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We got in the car, we
started driving home, and I smelled

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it again, and that's when I
started realizing I had done something that I

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cannot believe I forgot. But I
had pockets, you know, on my

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jacket that I wore, and they
were serving us snacks and nobody was eating

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the broccoli or the carrots. And
you know, I said to myself self,

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your pet squirrel, Joe would love
this broccoli. So I wrapped it

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up and I'd stuck it in my
pockets, and that's what I was smelling

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that. I'm so embarrassed. But
I need to apologize to everyone at the

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nursing home and to my kids,
and quite possibly to my husband for blaming

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them for thinking and it was me
with the broccoli in my pocket. So

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now you know, I forgive me
Lord, for I have sinned, and

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now I have shared that. So
we're going to move past. So I

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hope your day's going better than mine
was. And you're nicer than me,

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because my bad. All right,
so let's get started with this one.

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And look, if you have been
watching the television, you might actually have

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been following this case and it really
piqued my interest. So that's why I

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chose a But this is like a
new active just just got big in the

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news case and it's going to be
out of Kenosha, Wisconsin, and I

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think I have some listeners in Wisconsin. So, hey, y'all, this

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is coming your way. But this
case is going to talk about a guy

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named Rosalio Gutierrez Junior, and he
was about forty years old in the lifelong

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resident of Kenosha, Wisconsin. And
he was born on April tenth, nineteen

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eighty to Celia Ramirez. And from
the start, y'all, this guy was

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unapologetically a mama's boy. And he
was raised alone by his mother, and

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so they had an extremely tight bond. Now, he did have siblings,

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and his brothers commented on the fact
that he had a bad temper when he

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was little, and they told the
story about him being at Wrigley Field when

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they were a kid and he wanted
to go pee, and he wanted to

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go pee with the big boys,
but when they got to the bathroom,

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he couldn't reach the urinal and so
he was in there trying his best to

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pee in the urinal, and the
adults thought it was cute in the bathroom,

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you know, this little fella trying
to do it, and so they

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started laughing. Well, he turned
around and he got mad and he looked

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at those people and said, what
are you looking at? And got all

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you know, puffed up towards him, but he was just a little bitty

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guy. And the brother said that
all the adults just kind of looked at

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him, like, oh my gosh, and then they apologized for laughing,

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but they weren't laughing at him,
you know, they were just they thought

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he was cute. And his brother
said, calm down, Rambo, and

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he looked at his brother and he
said, that's what I thought. So

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that's kind of the little guy.
He was a little spitfire of a kid.

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And as he grew up, he
would get this nickname by his mom,

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and his mom would call him Pocho, but his friends would call him

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Junior. So in nineteen ninety seven, that was when his mother met a

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man by the name of Eugene Patterson, and that Eugene would eventually marry his

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mother and that would quickly become his
dad. So rosal Leo would actually call

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him dad, and they loved one
another. And Rosalio was a very smart

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guy. He excelled academically. He
attended area schools and he eventually graduated from

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the University of Wisconsin Parkside, and
he had degrees and get this criminal justice

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and sociology and I was like my
guy, right because I feel like,

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you know, those are what I
got my degrees in, and I feel

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like he and I would have got
along really well and would have had a

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lot to talk about. And he
was a driven guy and would go,

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you know, to work for multiple
companies, including he even worked for the

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state Public defender at one time.
But he made a little career change after

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that and he settled into a job
at a plus quality construction and tranquility property

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group. So his co workers really
liked him. They said that he was

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funny, he made him laugh,
he was a hard worker, and over

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and over again I saw that he
was an all around nice guy. And

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he also was a church loving man
and he attended the Great Lakes Church in

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Kenosha now ros Leo. His biggest
joy in life, hands down, was

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his children. So he met Christy
Ortez around two thousand and eight and they

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never got married, but they did
produce a child named Julian, and then

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he had another relationship after that.
He met a girl named Kayla and they

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produced a child named Ava. And
while their relationships ended, and I really

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liked this about both baby mama's I
guess they said that he made a point

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to maintain healthy relationships with his children
and their mothers, so there really weren't

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big complaints about him being a father. It mattered to him to be a

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good dad, but also to show
his you know, his children's mother's respect,

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because he knew that that was rub
off on his children. So he

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was a lucky guy too, and
that he got one of each, right,

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a boy and a girl. Julian
was a male and Ava obviously a

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female, and he absolutely loved being
their dad. And recently he had co

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coached his son's little league team and
he just ate up every minute of it.

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He loved being a part of his
children's lives and he would jump at

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any opportunity he could to be with
them and to help with their sports.

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He even, I think this is
kind of cute. He even was a

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big supporter of little Ava and he
would go to her gymnastics competitions and be

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a proud supporter of her, even
at her ballet concerts. He was like,

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right, he was rooting her on, and he loved those babies.

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Now, Rosalio himself loved any and
all sports. He loved it. He

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would look at any competition and I'm
like that too, so I really can

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identify with that. I love sports. I don't care what it is.

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We could re race in marbles.
Hey, I remember during COVID when we

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couldn't do anything or go anywhere.
I remember watching marble races on my phone,

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like where you put him on a
track, and I was like,

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what has what does the world come
to that I'm watching this? But I

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needed some competition and I would root
for that red marble y'all every time.

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But Rosalio his favorite teams were the
Chicago Cubs. He loved the Bears,

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and he loved the Blackhawks. And
he was a very outdoorsy type of guy

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and if he could be outside in
the sunshine, that's where Rosalio wanted to

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be. He loved listening to music, and it didn't matter to him what

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type of music it was. He
just liked to be out listening to music,

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dancing and having a good time.
And people who were friends with him

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told you that he was absolutely full
of life and he had so much to

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offer the world. And this wasn't
like that thing where you know when everybody

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dies and they're in a movie and
they're like, oh, they lit up

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a room and they had so much
tenacity. No. I went and looked

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at photos and of videos that people
had posted online, and this guy really

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was living it up, and he
really was fun. He was optimistic,

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and I think that's so attractive in
a person. That he looked for the

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best in people, and he looked
for the best in situations. And friends

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would say that he was that friend. If you needed something, he would

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stop what he was doing. He
would immediately drop whatever he was doing and

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he would show up. And he
was a good friend. And something that

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he was blessed with was that he
in return had good friends back for him

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now. His mom referred to him
as a good son who was always there

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for her, and she said that
their bond was extremely strong and that their

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love for one another was just unconditional. They were very, very tight,

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and considering the fact that Rosalio was
a responsible man and he was not one

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to stay out of touch with his
family, it was really odd to them

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and to his friends that they were
unable to get in touch with him in

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the middle of twenty twenty. His
mother says she last physically saw him in

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February of twenty twenty, when she
brought him a truck that he could use

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to go back and forth from work. But the last time that she spoke

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to him was on the phone on
May sixteenth of twenty twenty, and having

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that gut feeling that mama's get,
she just had that gut feeling that something

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was wrong. So Rosalio's mom and
her husband jumped in their vehicle and they

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traveled to Kenosha to look for him, and they got there on May twentieth

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of twenty twenty. Now, when
they were walking up, he lived in

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an apartment complex known as Wood Creek
Apartments. When they were walking up to

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the Wood Creek Apartments, they noticed
that the truck she had brought him was

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still parked there, and he didn't
have any other means of transportation. So

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the fact that he wasn't answering any
phone calls or texts and then the truck

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is still there, as you can
imagine, that kind of made their hearts

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sink as they walked up. The
car was parked right there in the parking

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lot. And if he wasn't home, then why would the truck be there.

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But look, that doesn't always mean
something that you know, did he

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leave with someone else and maybe he
forgot to call. Well, no,

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no freaking way. Everyone that knew
him said, that's not the case.

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He doesn't forget to call. He
certainly didn't forget to call his mama.

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That just wasn't Rosalio, and he
certainly wasn't going to miss any of the

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appointments that he had where he recently
was a no show in the last two

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days. So on that on May
nineteenth, the day before the parents showed

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up, Rosalio was reported as missing
to the police, and doing their due

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diligence, Kenosha Police conducted a welfare
check to the Wood Creek apartments where Rosalio

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lived, and it turns out that
Rosalio had been seeing a woman named Sadie

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Beacham about this same time. She
too was very concerned, having not been

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able to get in touch with him
for two days. So the time frame

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between when the mom last spoke to
him, when Sadie Beacham last spoke to

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him, and his friends last spoke
to him was all kind of lining up.

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Specifically, Rosalio called Sadie his girlfriend
about eight thirty pm that last day

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that they all had spoken to him, and she missed his call, and

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then he texted her at eight thirty
six pm. This is going to be

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on May the seventeenth, so back
a couple of days. But she missed

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that text message, and then she
kept trying to get him and couldn't get

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him. She tried him again on
the eighteenth, but she didn't get him.

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And understand, this was a relationship
where they were in communication several times

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a day, and now all of
a sudden, there's absolutely no communication from

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him. So on the nineteenth in
the morning, there's still no communication from

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him, so she too jumps in
her car and she drives from the Milwaukee

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area to Kenosha to see what's going
on, and wondering the whole time if

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something's happened to him. And when
she gets to that apartment, she goes

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around and she finds that the sliding
door to his apartment he lives on a

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bottom floor, is open, and
that strikes her as pretty off. So,

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like I said, Rossilio Gutierrez has
that apartment on the bottom floor and

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the slide door faces right to the
road, so the sliding door is open,

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but she notices that the screen door
is still still shut. So she

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walks up and she gets closer to
the screen and she's going to kind of

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peer in through the mesh of that
screen when she is horrified to see a

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massive amount of blood as she peers
through that screen and it's all over the

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apartment from where she is standing.
She is stunned at the amount of blood

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that she sees, so she immediately
dials nine to one one and she is

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still at the scene when the police
arrive. So Detective Lorn and Shoots responded

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to Gutierra's residence on May nineteenth,
twenty twenty, and they describe Sadie as

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being completely distraught. He says she's
shaking and she is literally overcome with emotion

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with what she has seen. So
what do I mean by blood all over

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the apartment? I did some research
on this and I even pulled some reports

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that were turned in by police,
and I'm gonna post those on my Patreon

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for you to go look at if
you'd like to. But what I mean

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by all over the apartment is literally
all over the interior of the apartment.

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When the police arrived and they entered
the scene, they noticed first of all

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that there was blood covering the main
rug area in the living room. Blood

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was on the walls, it was
on the tables, it extended down to

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the dining room table. Walking further
into the apartment, the blood continued to

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the chairs. It even hits a
laptop which was further down in the apartment.

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There was also blood on the kitchen
counter, and then it had even

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dripped and pulled in some areas.
I mean, this was an incredible amount

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of loss of blood, and from
what it looked like, it was very

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improbable that someone could lose that much
blood and be alive. It's a ton

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of blood now as they're walking through
and they're looking. When you first entered

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the entrance of the apartment, police
found a small stick of wood and they

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00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.399
described it as looking like a sliver
from maybe a baseball bat or some other

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hard wood object. But it also
was splattered with blood, and it even

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had tufts of hair stuck to it. And there was a significant amount of

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blood on the curtains, which are
on the entire other end of the apartment

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from the entrance where they first came
in. So I'm trying to paint you

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a picture here that it wasn't like
there was blood in one corner, like

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someone got cracked with a baseball bat. This was a fight for his ever

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loving life. Assuming that was his
blood all over the apartment. It extends

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the whole apartment, every room and
looking up, detectives even are struck to

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notice there's blood on the ceilings.
There was blood dripping from the ceiling,

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fans, it's everywhere. Walking through
the apartment, they found blood in the

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ceiling in multiple rooms of the apartment. So this should be painting a picture

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in your head that this guy's fighting
off whatever's happening to him, and he's

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running room to room getting just beaten, just animalistically beaten, and blood is

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everywhere. There was more pulled blood
that had seeped into the carpet in the

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living room, on the floor area, and there was even a significant quantity

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of seeped blood into the couch,
which was that main couch into the living

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room. Strangely enough, though,
there's one area that's missing blood completely,

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and it's really obvious that there's blood
all around this rectangular area, but there's

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no blood whatsoever where that rectangular area
is. I mean, it was actually

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described as pristine. Everywhere was covered
in blood except this one square area that

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common sense would tell you you should
immediately ascertain that this had been some you

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00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.839
know, a medium to large sized
rug, and there was significant bleeding that

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was happening when the rug was there, but now the rug was gone.

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So come on, y'all, you're
not new to this. This is not

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your first rodeo. There's blood all
over a house and there's a missing rug.

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What do you think happened? Did
they go on a rug rolling contest

239
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outside? No, I don't think
so either. Something happened to somebody,

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00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:53.960
and I think they got rolled up
in that rug, And I think that

241
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that's a pretty decent assumption to make. So as crime scene technicians process the

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scene, they find more little splinters
of wood near the couch that are also

243
00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:10.480
there, and interspersed in the blood
and in the hair that's all over the

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couch, and the location in the
size of the blood in the multiple areas

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00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.240
of the apartment indicated that it was
a spraying type of blood, meaning that

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00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:26.160
there was impact in multiple locations on
multiple you know, given times. It

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00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:29.640
wasn't like it was one strike and
then someone was bleeding out. And this

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00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.960
type of bleeding I was gonna kind
of explain to you it was called arterial

249
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:36.559
spray. And that's where there's kind
of a finer mist as well that comes

250
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:41.599
out, and arterial spray is a
characteristic blood stained pattern containing spurts that result

251
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:49.000
in blood you know, existing under
pressure and from arterial injury. So basically

252
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:55.240
blood is propelled out of the cut
cut blood vessel by the pumping of the

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heart and it's typical for that pattern
to form like an arc. Okay,

254
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.039
So basically every time the heart pumps, and that's my pen hitting my chest.

255
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:10.279
But every time the heart pumps,
then you're gonna get a new spray

256
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:11.960
pattern that's made. And so it
kind of looks like, you know,

257
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:17.480
whoosh and then a new whoosh across
the wall. Now there's a misconception,

258
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.480
and this drives me crazy, but
there's a misconception that blood spatter tells the

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00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.319
whole story. So like if you
watch a television drama, they're going to

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00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.359
point out that, you know,
a bloodstained analyst is gonna come in and

261
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.559
they're gonna tell the investigators everything that
occurred, and that's just not how it

262
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:38.799
works. The pattern can tell these
analysts with reasonable certainty what happened in specific

263
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:45.400
moments that correspond to a stain,
but they cannot tell you the whole story

264
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.160
of what happened. In some cases, the bloodstains are too few or the

265
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:53.039
volume of blood is just too great
for analysts to reasonably render any opinion on

266
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.440
the causes of the stains. They
just know that the blood's there, and

267
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:57.799
it should be in the body,
not where it is, So, you

268
00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:00.599
know, the movies kind of get
that wrong. But whatever happened in this

269
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:06.640
apartment, it was clearly not an
accident, and it occurred over time as

270
00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:12.880
Rosalio moved through the apartment fending off
his attacker. And the scene looked to

271
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.920
have been made by a multitude of
violence. I mean everything from blunt force

272
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.079
trauma to a sharp penetrating wound from
something like a knife. Now, there

273
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:27.119
was no weapon found at the scene, but it was believed based on what

274
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:32.039
they saw, it was likely,
you know, he was probably mortally wounded

275
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.720
based on the amount of blood and
the totality of the circumstance when they were

276
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:40.079
viewing the scene. And while the
blood evidence may have been great in amount,

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00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.519
there was one glaring issue, and
that's that police searched the entire apartment

278
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:52.160
and the outside area of the apartment
and Rosa, you know, Rosalio Gutierrez

279
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:59.119
was nowhere to be found. Based
on the condition of what is assumed to

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be his body, it's not likely
that he could have gotten far on his

281
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.440
own either. I mean, he's
lost so much blood he would have been

282
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.200
weak by the time he got to
the front door, so it's not like

283
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.319
he ran out. There was no
blood trail outside of the apartment. There

284
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.519
was no footprints. But this was
looking a whole lot like murder. But

285
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:21.160
without a body, investigators, they
can't be certain. They don't know where

286
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.839
he is. So Rosalio's keys were
also at the apartment, and they also

287
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.119
found his wallet, but his wallet
had ended up on the couch over some

288
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:36.039
areas that already had blood, and
so while again this is circumstantial evidence in

289
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.440
nature, it was obvious that it
had been placed there after the bleeding occurred.

290
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.279
And it doesn't really make much sense
for someone who's bleeding out to give

291
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:47.680
their license to someone, right or
a credit card, But why would you

292
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:53.079
leave everything there. Another strange event
was that a few days after Rosalio went

293
00:21:53.119 --> 00:22:00.359
missing in his freezer, his phone
and all of his credit cards were found

294
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.720
by his mother behind everything in his
freezer, hidden there in the cold.

295
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:11.359
So the only reason they found the
phone is because it randomly went off and

296
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.000
she found it in the freezer.
They did a search. The police did

297
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.480
a search of Rosalia's bank records,
and that would be concerning as well,

298
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:25.480
because there was no further transactions that
had occurred after May seventeenth. This tells

299
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:27.200
you one thing. We may not
know where his body is, but we

300
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:33.960
know that this wasn't a robbery because
nothing of financial gain had been taken or

301
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:40.279
used. So investigators turned their attention
to his new girlfriend, Sadie Beecham.

302
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:45.359
Was this a strong relationship? How
long had there been an item? Police

303
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.640
really wanted to investigate what was going
on here, and so Sadie told investigators

304
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:55.680
that on February seventeenth of twenty twenty, she had gotten on a dating site

305
00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.839
and that's where she first had laid
eyes on Rosolio. To what she saw,

306
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.359
and after meeting him, she thought
maybe this really could go somewhere.

307
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:10.079
They met up and she just really
thought he was great. He seemed to

308
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.839
love his kids and to have a
good relationship with them, and this really

309
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:17.359
mattered to her because she had her
own children. Sadie had three, to

310
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.640
be exact, and she believed that
being a parent was one of the most

311
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:29.480
important jobs there is. While their
relationship was blossoming, she wasn't quite ready

312
00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.160
though, to share this with any
of her children, and specifically she had

313
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.359
an eleven year old daughter at the
time, and she just wasn't ready to

314
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.000
share this relationship. It was too
new. She liked it, but it

315
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:42.960
was just too new. They'd been
together only a couple of months, but

316
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:52.119
Sadie was smitten and saying this was
not a typical dating experience. She said

317
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.480
in a text message, it was
literally a breath of fresh air being with

318
00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.480
him. So she detailed their relationship
as fa time calls and dinners at home

319
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.200
or take out by the lake.
They liked to watch movies, they would

320
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.680
make tacos and drink mohidos and singing
and dancing in the living room and just

321
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:15.240
sharing stories of their friends and family. She had really good things to say

322
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.599
about this relationship. There was nothing
really negative that she brought up. And

323
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:25.119
what investigators were concerned with, though, is how focused she was on getting

324
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:29.400
her own kids to safety. So
you know, she had walked in and

325
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.680
found the apartment in a wreck and
blood everywhere, and she was nearly inconsolable

326
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:38.440
with fear. But she was scared
that something was going to happen to her

327
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:44.400
own children. But why would she
be so afraid of them? You know,

328
00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.200
if if something had happened to Rosalio, what would be the link between

329
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.400
the apparent attack of Hilm and her
own children? But there was one,

330
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.279
and it was a legitimate one.
See, Sadie had just exited a tumultuous,

331
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.480
long term relationship with a man named
Zachariah Anderson who went by Zach,

332
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.640
and she was convinced that he must
have had something to do with this,

333
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:15.440
and that her kids might not be
safe either. So she immediately prioritizes securing

334
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.759
her own children's safety, and the
police allow her to do that because they

335
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.799
don't know the legitimacy of her fears
in that moment, and they don't want

336
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:25.720
to, you know, stop her, even though it just you know,

337
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.640
Okay, you're scared because of your
ex But I mean, really, why

338
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.480
would you think your own kids are
going to be in trouble? But who

339
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:33.440
was Zach? I thought I would
tell you a little bit about him.

340
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:40.920
Zach was the eldest of nine total
children who maintained a close relationship with each

341
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:45.160
other. And Zach while there's nine
children. It's really kind of a mixed

342
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.119
bunch of kids through divorces and marriages
and all of that, but there's nine

343
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:53.480
siblings. And Zach graduated from Port
Washington High School and then he went on

344
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:59.440
to receive an associate's degree from Milwaukee
Area Technical College. And during a portion

345
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.960
of high schoo he moved to Texas
to try to live with his mom because

346
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.039
there was some you know, separations
and divorces and whatnot. But eventually he

347
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.559
hitchhiked his way back to Wisconsin.
And I don't know why, but that

348
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.200
kind of struck me because you're a
high school kid and you're hitchhiking your way

349
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.839
back home. I don't know,
seems like a risky type of behavior.

350
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.839
And he was kind of described as
a bit of a transient at times.

351
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.000
He moved about. He lived in
Colorado and in California, but to him,

352
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.359
if you ask him, Wisconsin is
always going to be declared as his

353
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.720
home. And throughout the years,
Zach held a variety of jobs as well.

354
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:42.799
He waited tables, he painted bridges
and overpasses, he worked construction,

355
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.359
and he also worked for many years
for AT and T in a variety of

356
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.039
capacities but at the time of this
case, he was working as an audio

357
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:59.039
visual maintenance technician for Milwaukee Area Technical
College and he did demo or construction jobs

358
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.960
on the side. So it kind
of seemed to me like Rosalio was more

359
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:10.400
of an intellectual type guy and Zach
was kind of a blue collar, hands

360
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:14.759
on type of fella. So kind
of different, different ways of doing things.

361
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.559
But Sadie and Zach had gotten together
and they lived together on a regular

362
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:23.279
basis. Over time, they would
have three children together. In two thousand

363
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.079
and eight, they had their daughter, who was only identified by initials OA.

364
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:33.799
I think her name's Olivia because in
some other stuff I read, a

365
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.559
child was referred to as live,
but you know, for her privacy,

366
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.079
we'll leave it at OA. And
then that after she was born, she

367
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.960
was followed by twin boys in twenty
fifteen, and their initials are Ina,

368
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:51.079
and I would guess Nathan and Michael. I don't know why, but I

369
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:52.759
don't know these kids' names, but
if we want to call them Na and

370
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.799
m A or nine MA, that's
all I can give you right now.

371
00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:02.400
And what started as a decent relationship
with eventually burn out over time. Sadie

372
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:07.279
would describe their relationship as one where
Zach came and went as he pleased.

373
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.079
He didn't pay for living expenses,
he didn't help with the expenses of the

374
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:17.119
children on any type of regular basis, and it was very frustrating to her.

375
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.799
Sometimes he showed up on the weekends, and when he would show up,

376
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.839
she said, he fully expected and
anticipated that they were going to be

377
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:30.319
in their relationship and he wanted to
reap the benefits thereof, if you know

378
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:32.960
what I mean. So he was
kind of half assed in a relationship with

379
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.440
her, but whole ass wanted a
piece of ass when he showed up.

380
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.400
And Sadie would come to the point
where she was like, enough is enough,

381
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.240
Okay, I'm not doing this anymore. I've children have priorities. You

382
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.519
come and go and you think that
you kind of rule the roost even though

383
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.640
you're not here, and you don't
really participate or support us. I'm done,

384
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.279
And so she would break up with
Zach. But Zach would be under

385
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:00.960
the impression that he would do what
he always did in years. He would

386
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.359
show up, beg for forgiveness,
and he would just be able to smooth

387
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.920
things over. But this time it
didn't happen, and he kind of found

388
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:14.440
himself in unchartered territory because for years
he had been in control and could kind

389
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.759
of manipulate and get this relationship to
do what he wanted. But now,

390
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:23.799
y'all, it was officially over.
Sadie was done and being the decent parent

391
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.319
that she was, although she hadn't
spoken for a few weeks to Zach after

392
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:33.559
they broke up, slowly but surely, she wanted to have him be able

393
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.599
to have the visits with his kids, and she was willing to oblige that.

394
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.920
Zach, though, would use this
whole idea of being with his kids

395
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:47.119
and being back in touch with her
on a regular basis. He would use

396
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:52.640
that kind of as his attempts to
get back together with her continuously. But

397
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.039
this wasn't going to happen. She
had just taken the high road and she

398
00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.960
was trying to be nice with him, but he still was texting and and

399
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:06.319
begging and playing the victim and you
know, giving gifts that she did not

400
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.200
want. When I tell you she
was done, she was done. She

401
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.359
decides that she does not want to
share this new relationship with Rosalio with Zach

402
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.319
because she knows him too well by
this point, and she knows that he

403
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:22.119
will easily become overwhelmed with jealousy.
And she also knows that Zach has the

404
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.960
propensity to be irrational when he feels
like he's not in complete control of his

405
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.680
life. And I don't know if
you've ever met someone like this, but

406
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.440
I have, and it can get
to be a lot when someone feels like

407
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:40.519
they are losing control when they believe
in their mind that they deserve and require

408
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.759
control over another person. So learning
all of this about Zach, investigators further

409
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:51.880
asked Sadie when was the last time
you physically saw Rosalo, And she explains

410
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.880
that on May sixteenth, she got
a communication from him asking if she would

411
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.319
like to meet his kids since they
were at his house for the weekend on

412
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.240
the fifteenth and the sixteenth, and
this was the first time that she had

413
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.799
been asked to meet his kids.
And they went for ice cream and this

414
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:14.000
was just huge to her because she
said that she was extremely excited and she

415
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.599
felt like this was extremely meaningful.
It was a huge moment in her life

416
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.880
because if he was going to let
her meet his kids, then he must

417
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.960
have felt like she was worthy of
a long term relationship with him now.

418
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.799
She did not spend the night that
night, and she went home when it

419
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.160
was over, but it would be
the very last time that she ever saw

420
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:41.359
Rosalio alive in person. She knew
that they were not in an exclusive relationship

421
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:45.799
yet, but she felt like this
relationship was going to build. They just

422
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:51.759
had too much in common. And
this information was a particular interest to investigators

423
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.400
in that their main focus at the
time was where is Rosalio? But also

424
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.720
who would have the motive to hurt
him? Sex, jealousy, y'all.

425
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.759
I've said it a billion times.
They're very strong motives combined with a person

426
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.720
who has an obsession for control,
and so police felt, look, we

427
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.839
may not know everything, but we
do have a lead here, and so

428
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:17.599
they wanted to go further with that
lead. Sadie had even texted Zach right.

429
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:23.640
She had messages between her and Zach
where he is acting like he's gonna

430
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:28.119
be helpful and I don't mean about
Rosa Leo, I mean in general.

431
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.519
Right, he gives messages to her
like I'll keep the kids, but then

432
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:36.480
he says, so you don't have
to sneak someone in the house and our

433
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:40.319
kids won't hear you calling your new
boothing babe, and then she was clapping

434
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.279
back at him like, geez,
you know, WTF, what is your

435
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:45.920
deal? It's none of your business. You had your chance with me,

436
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:50.680
you blew it. You've had years
to be a man that I needed and

437
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.039
you're not. And if I have
a serious new relationship, I have no

438
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:59.480
problem telling you. She then complains
to him in those same messages, Look,

439
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.200
you need to stop probing our children
about this as well, she says.

440
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.200
It's creepy and it's inappropriate. So
they had been arguing already about the

441
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:12.720
fact that he was still trying to
get information from their kids, which they

442
00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.599
have, you know, the little
twin boys, But that eleven to twelve

443
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:20.160
year old daughter during the timeframe of
this was really being used for more than

444
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:25.759
just love and affection by her father. He responds with her to that text

445
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.359
message, Oh, I was just
trying to help you. Yeah, frickin'

446
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.000
right, bro. Way to flip
that as if you're the one who's being

447
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.759
attacked. It's just to me,
a very very clear attempt at manipulation,

448
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.559
flipping the script, making you feel
like you're the bad guy just because you

449
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.759
try to check someone who's being snied, right, so you don't have to

450
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.799
sneak people in with our children there, Like who says she would do that

451
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:55.279
anyway? You know. So the
police did some investigating of Rossa Leo's phone

452
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:59.359
records to see if they could narrow
down when was the last time that he

453
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:06.160
physically spoke to someone on record,
and Rosalio's phone records showed he dropped his

454
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.519
kids off because he had them that
weekend that he went missing. He dropped

455
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.119
them off on the seventeenth, and
then it's believed he went home, arriving

456
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.599
around nine oh eight, and based
on some of the items that were left

457
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.119
at the crime scene. And if
you, you know, you read the

458
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.000
crime scene, like I've said before, and look at the photographs, you

459
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:29.960
know, it would seem like he
got home, he sat down his stuff,

460
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.719
and then he went and he cracked
open a beer and he drank it,

461
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:37.119
and then when he finished that one, he opened another one while he

462
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.519
was watching TV and waiting for a
woman named Nareda. I think that's how

463
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.079
you would say it. I guess
it's Nareda if you were going to like

464
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.840
say it with an accent, But
I'm not inclined with an accent. So

465
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:55.400
Nareda is what it sounds like in
South Louisiana. Her records would confirm that

466
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:01.199
she texted him at nine to twenty
seven pm on the seventeenth, and then

467
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.880
she texted him back because she arrived
at a building she thought was his,

468
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.960
but it turns out she was at
the wrong building, but she thought she

469
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.159
was at his building. So she
calls him, and she texts him a

470
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:19.679
couple of times over the next half
hour, asking him things like, Hey,

471
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:22.920
where are you are you coming out? And there's never an answer,

472
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:27.360
and y'all, they had been talking
the whole time, like where he lives.

473
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.639
He even said something like I promised
to you I'm not a creeper,

474
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:30.920
because she was like, I don't
know if I should come to your apartment.

475
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:35.280
So it seemed to me like he
was building the relationship. And I

476
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:37.599
could be wrong, but it seemed
to me from what I was researching,

477
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.079
that he was building a relationship with
Sadie. But he hadn't. They weren't

478
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.320
exclusive yet, so he was still
kind of dating and he had met this

479
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.400
woman and she was just gonna come
over just to meet. And I remember

480
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.599
when I was reading some of the
text messages him saying, hey, what

481
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:52.159
do you want to drink? You
know, I've got beer, I got

482
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:54.960
tequila, whatever, And she's like, no, I don't want to get

483
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:58.000
a DWI and he's like, oh, no problem, I have juice and

484
00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.559
milk and water too. You can
have whatever you want. He just seemed

485
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.000
like a really accommodating, a nice
guy, but once she got to that

486
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:08.519
apartment complex, he wasn't answering her. The last time Rosalia's phone is in

487
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.480
any way, shape or form on
was around ten thirty PM on the seventeenth,

488
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:16.599
And like I said, I've seen
these messages, and I actually have

489
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:20.840
some photos of their messages going back
and forth, and so I'm going to

490
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:22.760
post those on my Patreon for my
members so you can go look at them,

491
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:28.960
because it's strange being able to see
someone's final communication and then it just

492
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:31.599
abruptly stop, and then someone's like, where are you? What do you

493
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:36.079
do? You know? Why won't
you come outside? Something is going on

494
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:39.760
during that timeframe, and whatever it
is is deadly, and that woman is

495
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.760
outside of a nearby complex trying to
get in touch with them the whole time.

496
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.760
Ross Leo also kept a planner,
and it was noted that he was

497
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.159
planning to be at a camp called
Camp Timberly and it's a local summer camp.

498
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.480
He was supposed to go there with
his kids on May nineteenth, just

499
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:01.119
two days after this crime scene was
found, and he never arrived at camp.

500
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:06.840
He was never accounted for during that
timeframe, so police checked with the

501
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.480
kids, and the kids talked his
children. They talked to him all the

502
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.079
time. They saw him every week. They were in contact with him multiple

503
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:19.119
times a week. He was a
good daddy. But after May seventeenth,

504
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:24.039
there was never another split second of
communication between he and his children. This

505
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:30.280
is building a circumstantial case at best
right now, but it's it's definitely alarming.

506
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:37.280
So one day after the bloody apartment
was discovered, that detective on Shoots

507
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:43.360
went to pay ex boyfriend Zach Right, Sadie's ex boyfriend Anderson a visit at

508
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.920
his residence, and this would have
been on May twentieth, twenty twenty.

509
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:52.719
Now, before he gets there,
though, Rosalio's friends have already decided they

510
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.519
want answers. Remember I told you
he was a good friend, and when

511
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:59.000
he was not answering his friends sex
messages, they were going to go figure

512
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.639
out why, because it turns out
Rosalio had told a couple of his close

513
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:05.800
buddies that he had this new woman
that he was seeing and he was very

514
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.639
interested in her. Her name was
Sadie, but she's got a crazy ex

515
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:15.400
boyfriend and he believed the guy even
broke into his truck one time. Now

516
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:20.199
here's the breakdown of that real quick. A few months ago, before this

517
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:27.960
this case was taking place, Sadie
invited Rosalio over to her home and in

518
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.519
the middle of the night, her
doorbell rang and she looked up when the

519
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:37.320
doorbell rang, and she saw a
vehicle that she said looked a whole lot

520
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.800
like Zach's. The ex boyfriends squealing
away from the house. Now, she

521
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.119
didn't have the children, right,
the children were gone, and that's why

522
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:47.719
she had invited Rosalio over. And
later when she and Rosalio go outside,

523
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.800
they find that his truck had been
broken into, and a letter had been

524
00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:00.840
taken from the truck, as well
as Rosalio's registration or or this paper that

525
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.519
had his information on it that was
also signed by his stepfather, who had

526
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:09.760
signed for the truck, if you're
following me, And so the question was,

527
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.079
why in the hell would someone break
into your truck, and then why

528
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:17.000
would they take your registration? Like
what a dumb thing to take from a

529
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:23.039
vehicle. So when Rosalio goes missing, that's when his bestie, his name

530
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:30.159
was Michael Campbell, is the type
of friend who's gonna go pound the pavement

531
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:34.960
and go ask some questions. He's
not gonna wait around, and so he

532
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:38.519
goes straight to the house of the
person that he suspects and his mind is

533
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:43.519
responsible for this, and he goes
up and he confronts him. And who

534
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:49.920
exactly did Michael and his friends go
confront It was Zach, that ex boyfriend,

535
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.320
and they explained to him, look, Rosalio's missing. Do you know

536
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:58.840
anything about this, because you're the
only one that's seemed to have a problem

537
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:02.559
with him recently, And he even
mentioned it well, acting like a total

538
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.559
douchebag coward. And I don't know
that there's any other word for this,

539
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.599
Zach. Rather than say and I
don't know what you're talking about, or

540
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.960
get out of my face or whatever, he doesn't even do that. Zach

541
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.559
claims that he's his own brother.
Zach's like, you got the wrong guy.

542
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.639
You think that this I'm Zach.
I'm actually Zack's brother, and it

543
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.199
wasn't like they were trying to fight
him or anything. I'm sure they were

544
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.719
a little, uh, you know, upset, but they weren't trying to

545
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.280
fight him or anything. They were
just trying to ask him the question of

546
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:37.920
do you know where he is?
But it becomes readily clear that Zach Aka

547
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.519
has faked you know, his brother
isn't going to answer their questions, so

548
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.960
instead they leave. But by that
point, Zach goes and calls the police.

549
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.480
Right he's the victim here, he's
being harassed, and the police show

550
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:57.440
up, but by that point,
the friends aren't there. When the police

551
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:02.840
show up, he Zach lives in
a northern suburb of Milwaukee. Police respond,

552
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:08.079
but they have some questions with regard
to the claim that Sadie has made

553
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:15.480
about Zach possibly going through Rosalio's truck
while they were at her house, and

554
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:22.559
they had acquired further information about Zach's
stalker tendencies from his own daughter. Now,

555
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:30.440
considering that this is a current case
that's just been you know, kind

556
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.079
of finalized in the last week or
two since when I'm recording this, the

557
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.199
authorities have kept his daughter's identity anonymous, but they did ask this little girl

558
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:46.159
questions. And I'm just perturbed by
this whole situation because this is a little

559
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.360
girl, y'all. She's eleven tern
twelve while this is all going on,

560
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:57.159
and she is more aware and has
more information than I think any child should

561
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:04.000
have post parental breakup about what her
parents are doing. It's none of their

562
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.639
concern, it's none of your child's
concern. You know who they're dating and

563
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.440
all of that. In the very
beginnings of it, I feel like the

564
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:13.840
mom, Sadie, was trying to
protect her kids. She didn't want to

565
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:16.880
introduce them to someone that may not
stick around, and instead, this daughter

566
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:22.880
knows a whole lot, even though
Sadie the mom had not shared anything with

567
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:30.599
her. Okay, so authorities kind
of questioned the daughter and she comes out

568
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.039
and says, well, yeah,
I mean I know about Rose a Leo.

569
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:38.679
Matter of fact, my dad asked
me to spy on my mom and

570
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:45.519
that included wanting her to film her
the mother, and he specifically asked his

571
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:50.719
daughter, look, I need you
to film your mom every time that she

572
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.440
gets upset and angry. I want
you to turn that phone on it and

573
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:57.280
I want you to record it.
And this fear infuriates me that you're trying

574
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.239
to now weaponize a child against their
parent. On anyone who does that,

575
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:06.400
Absolute shame on anyone who would weaponize
a child. You know, kids don't

576
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:10.280
ask to be here, so when
you start pinning them or pitting them against

577
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:15.199
their own parent, that's disgusting.
But she goes on further, and she

578
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:21.000
says that her dad even was using
racial slurs against Rosalio in front of her.

579
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:27.559
And that's how the dad referred to
Rosalio in front of his children,

580
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.039
was through a racial slur, which
I'm not going to say here. He

581
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:36.239
even told his own daughter that he
would follow Rosalio home one time, just

582
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:39.400
for fun, just to you know, just to kind of freak him out.

583
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:42.480
I guess he was telling the daughter, I think I may follow him

584
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:46.760
home and show him who the man
is. Now, this could just be

585
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:52.199
big talk, right, but it's
kind of concerning. When someone's blood is

586
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.760
all over their apartment they're missing,
kind of makes you go hmm. So,

587
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.119
when asked how often this had occurred, his daughter told him investigators that

588
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.000
her father would discuss her mother's boyfriend
with her. And this is direct quote

589
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:10.639
frequently. Now, this is just
talk like I said, it doesn't constitute

590
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:16.840
anything more than that, and it's
not necessarily stalking. But the daughter then

591
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:22.679
added a bit more of information.
The daughter specifically said that on the night

592
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:29.199
of April twenty fourth to April twenty
fifth, her father drove them to her

593
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:37.199
mother's house to have her spy on
her mother. But he got out and

594
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:42.119
he went and they spied through a
window and watched the two of them as

595
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:46.639
they sat on a couch. That
is so freaking creepy. And while there

596
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.519
she told her she told the police
that her dad jumped on the porch,

597
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.880
he looked through the window at her
mom, and he had through a camera.

598
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.920
And then she added that he took
some pictures of the license plate of

599
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:07.960
Rosolio's truck, and then he rifled
through it a bit before he quickly rang

600
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:13.039
the doorbell and then jumped in his
vehicle and they drove off. Well,

601
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.639
this isn't a you know, this
is what we and the BIZ would call

602
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:19.000
a clue, because remember she even
said the doorbell went off in the middle

603
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.360
of the night, and I swear
I thought I saw Zach's truck there,

604
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.280
and then lo and behold, he
had gone through the truck and the registration

605
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:30.559
is missing, so stalking. And
you know, I like to give you

606
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:31.840
official sources here, so if you
want to go look it up, you

607
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:36.320
can know that I'm not just some
talking head making stuff up. Stalking,

608
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:40.480
according to VictimConnect dot org, is
defined as a course of conduct directed at

609
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.760
a specific person that would cause a
reasonable person to feel fear. And I

610
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:51.400
think the key here is that it
would cause a reasonable person to feel fear.

611
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:55.840
It is scary to me to think
that someone would be watching me without

612
00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:00.400
me knowing. And I'll tell you
a personal story I don't normally, but

613
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:01.840
I'll share it with you because why
not. If we're all going to learn

614
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:06.119
from one another, let's use our
experiences. I dated a guy one time

615
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.880
before my beautiful, precious husband,
and he was not a very nice guy.

616
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.440
Matter of fact, he reminds me
of this fella right here. But

617
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.840
I remember one time I fell asleep
and didn't hear my phone ringing because it

618
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:21.440
was on silent, And when I
woke up, I had hundreds of missed

619
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:24.000
phone calls. I didn't even know
your phone would log that my voicemail was

620
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:28.599
maxed out, and one of the
voicemails said that if I didn't open the

621
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:30.800
door and come outside, he would
be waiting in the woods and he was

622
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:37.960
going to beat my brains in with
a baseball bat. Quote end quote.

623
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:42.199
So when it says it would cause
a reasonable person to feel fear, I

624
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.920
know what it feels like. That's
all I'll tell you. But unlike other

625
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:51.199
crimes that involve a single incident,
right like a shooting or something like that,

626
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:57.159
stalking is a pattern of behavior,
and it's often made up of individual

627
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:02.039
acts that by themselves might seem harmless, but when you put it together and

628
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:07.039
you take it into the entire context
of what's going on, it constitutes a

629
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.920
criminal act. So when you choose
to weaponize your own children against their own

630
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:16.719
mother, this would fall into that
pattern just described. Stalking involves more than

631
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:20.280
just following someone, which is kind
of what the movies make it. And

632
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.000
I want this to be a learning
lesson for people, not because you're taking

633
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.000
a test on it, but because
I want you to understand the behaviors,

634
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:28.639
because if you've never had it happen
to you, I think sometimes it's hard

635
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:31.840
to pinpoint it. But this list
I'm gonna give you certainly isn't exhaustive.

636
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:37.559
But here are some recognized stalking behaviors
that together pose an issue. So repeatedly

637
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:43.199
calling your phone, including calling and
hanging up, when people follow you,

638
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:49.000
when they send unwanted gifts, letters, text messages, emails, They damage

639
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.360
your home or your car or your
property. That same person I'm speaking of,

640
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:55.159
I came home to my house one
day and found all sorts of destroyed

641
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:00.719
items cut up on my porch and
they weren't even my eye So that was

642
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:06.559
creepy too. Monitors your phone calls
or your computer, possibly through spywear.

643
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:10.159
They threatened to hurt you. They
perform other actions that to try to control

644
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:16.440
or track or fighten you or frighten
you. So I remember getting voicemails and

645
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.159
calls too from this same person telling
me what I was wearing while I was

646
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.000
at work. Tell me, that's
not to try to intimidate you, to

647
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:29.400
let you know that there's eyes on
you. So obviously Zach was dabbling in

648
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:34.519
some of these behaviors, and he
also had previously admitted to Sadie that he

649
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.320
was jealous. He would also later
admit that to law enforcement, and he

650
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:40.880
he would admit, look, I
did take my daughter, as I mentioned.

651
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.199
You know, to the mom's house, and he said he has a

652
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:51.039
recording of that incident on his phone. And law enforcement certainly wants to focus

653
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:55.960
on the person who has documented motive
and jealousy. So let's focus on two

654
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.840
of those stalking behaviors. I just
want you to, you know, just

655
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:07.920
listen when someone's monitoring you through technology
and tracking you through GPS. This was

656
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:14.280
done Sadie didn't know it at first, but monitoring his x through technology was

657
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:20.920
done through his daughter at his request. But Sadie had also more evidence that

658
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.840
he was doing even more. Matter
of fact, she had contacted the Germantown

659
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:30.639
Police Department back in twenty nineteen with
concerns about these stalking behaviors, but the

660
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:35.079
police told her, and this is
true to an extent, that they were

661
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.000
not able to do much unless he
was caught in the act. And is

662
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:42.400
it's really hard to prove it,
and a lot of times, y'all,

663
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:46.519
it's too late once you're able to
prove it. But y'all, if a

664
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:51.159
crime hasn't occurred, and you can't
prove that a crime has occurred, what

665
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:53.440
are the police going to do?
And I know right now on your head,

666
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:55.360
you're probably yelling at me, But
I'm telling you, if you look

667
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:59.880
at the facts, if you look
at how policing has to be done,

668
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.360
just because someone says it's happening with
no proof, you can't just go infringe

669
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.719
upon someone's life. Doesn't seem fair
to the victim in this case, but

670
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:13.960
it's the truth. She had actually
filed for a restraining order against Zach after

671
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.199
he physically attacked her in front of
their children, and this was in December

672
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:22.360
of twenty nineteen. According to Zach's
own family, Sadie and Zach had been

673
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:29.159
in a verbal altercation regarding their children
at Sadie's home, and Zach was given

674
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:35.320
a municipal citation for disorderly conduct and
Sadie requested a seventy two hour no contact

675
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:38.800
period, which was granted by the
judge. So it was serious enough that

676
00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:42.239
the judge was like, I don't
think y'all need to be around each other.

677
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:45.920
So if you fast forward now to
April of twenty twenty, Sadie is

678
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:50.519
extremely upset to find that her daughter
had a cell phone that she didn't know

679
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:57.320
about. Sadie looks in the phone
and she discovers that this is Zach's doing,

680
00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.960
and she knew it was Zach's doing
because Zach had multiple phones, and

681
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.119
she knew that because he would text
her from multiple phones, making it really

682
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.719
confusing. He had one that he
used primarily, but he had a couple

683
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:12.119
of other phones, and one in
particular he was using to record her.

684
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:17.159
So Sadie looks into this Amazon account
that she can see on the phone,

685
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:23.639
and she sees that Zach has ordered
two tracking devices from Amazon. And when

686
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:29.000
she looks further into it, they're
auto tracking devices that you attached to a

687
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:35.639
vehicle and their voice activated, so
they have a dual purpose basically for spying

688
00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:38.880
missions. Right, Sadie was already
upset about her daughter's recording her when she

689
00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:43.679
got upset, and now this is
an absolute invasion of her privacy. So

690
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:50.039
on May eighth, Sadie again does
not have the children, and so she's

691
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:55.119
going to go to Rosalio's home and
based on her suspicions of what had been

692
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:59.119
occurring in the last few weeks and
what I just told you about her daughter,

693
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:01.280
and then you know, her doorbell
had been wrong and she thought it

694
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:05.119
was Zach. They thought he broke
into the car. She also found out

695
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:07.599
that her daughter was recording her,
she says, you know what, I

696
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:12.000
think he's probably tracking me, So
being hyper vigilant, before she goes to

697
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:15.599
his home, she searches her car
and lo and behold, if she doesn't

698
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:20.719
find a hidden tracking device in her
car, we are now at a new

699
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:25.400
level. Okay, But where she
finds it is what is most disgusting to

700
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:31.840
me. She finds it hidden under
the car seat of one of her twins,

701
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.920
all right, but this is going
to be important where she finds it.

702
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:42.679
So when she drives to Kenosha to
meet with Rosalio, she had turned

703
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:47.559
that phone off and she confronts Zach
about the finding, and in the most

704
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:52.039
ridiculous lie ever, he says,
oh, well, I must have you

705
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:55.360
know, I lost that phone.
It must have fallen out of my pocket

706
00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:59.159
when I was working on one of
the car seats for the twins, like

707
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.400
he was putting the car in,
and it must have just fallen in there.

708
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:05.920
So I want to tell you something
about these types of lies. When

709
00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:10.000
a narcissist, which he is,
is confronted with a lie, they will

710
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:16.639
create what is instantly called plausible deniability, so that doubt is cast on the

711
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:22.320
very evidence that's laid out before them, so within seconds, if you're around

712
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:27.239
a true narcissist, they can spin
a story to cover a story that covers

713
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:32.480
a story intentionally confusing their partner or
the person that they're trying to control,

714
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:39.519
and the person who has gone to
great pains to present evidence to the bad

715
00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:44.760
guy or to someone they think is
doing something. They're able to put that

716
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:50.320
little bit of plausible deniability in there, and it's amazing how good they are

717
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:52.679
at it, and you fall for
it, and people fall for it and

718
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:57.320
accept the lie, and they end
up getting a free pass for it.

719
00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:00.159
And the reason people accept the lie, y'all, it's not because they're stupid.

720
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:07.000
It's because it's extremely hard for someone
who is normal and not manipulative and

721
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:15.760
vindictive. It's hard for them to
fathom thinking in the capacity that the narcissist

722
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:21.480
is thinking, and so people choose
instead to sort of believe the lie because

723
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.840
it's easier. It's easier to believe
the lie and to let it go than

724
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:31.119
to imagine that someone is really as
scary and has done something as terrible as

725
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:37.840
you think. We basically will bargain
with logic. So Sadie, though she

726
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:42.960
was right about this phone Zach was
using that phone. He had an app

727
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.519
that he had just downloaded on it, which was to Find My Phone app,

728
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:51.239
and he was tracking her that very
day, and so everything he was

729
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:53.960
telling her was simply untrue. Every
time she brings it up, though,

730
00:54:54.159 --> 00:55:00.480
he acts like she's crazy, and
he is fundamentally just dishonest with her and

731
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:04.280
acts like everything that she's bringing up
is in her head or they can be

732
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:09.719
plausibly denied as accidents. His reactions
to this are a dead ringer for narcissistic

733
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:15.119
behavior. And based on everything I've
mentioned so far, we all should be

734
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:21.199
able to agree that Zach becomes more
irrational every time he's not getting his way

735
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:24.360
or he loses control of what she's
doing Sadie's doing, and it looks like

736
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:30.960
it's building. Each new move he
makes is more and more disturbing. So

737
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:35.599
even their daughter, right when she
was questioned by police, tells law enforcement

738
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.119
I am his spy, and they
ask why did you do it? And

739
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:39.960
she said, well, to make
Daddy happy, that's what he wanted me

740
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.920
to do. She says there's a
plan that he described to her as well,

741
00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:50.800
and that his daughter needed to be
prepared to implement it at whenever he

742
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.199
needed her to do it. So
they're like, Okay, explain to me

743
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:58.079
what is this plan he had,
and the daughter says, well, Daddy

744
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:00.480
says that he is going to bring
me and my two siblings, the twins.

745
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:04.719
We're gonna be at his house because
it's going to be his weekend for

746
00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.440
a visit. And if I know
that my mama is supposed to go visit

747
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:12.599
over at Rosolio's home, his plan
is that I need to tell him and

748
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.599
then he's going to drive us back
to mama's house, which of course she

749
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:20.440
won't be there because she's gone to
Rosalio's. And then the little girl was

750
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:23.760
told she it was very important that
she leaves a key so that he can

751
00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:27.159
get it when the mom's not there
and so that they can get in the

752
00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:30.519
house. And then she's to take
herself and her little siblings, her two

753
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:34.840
siblings into the house. And then
when she gets in the house, she

754
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:39.159
has to call her dad's phone and
tell her dad that they're there and that

755
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:44.280
they've made it into the home.
And then Zach was going to make a

756
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.719
phone call to the police department and
say, hey, my wife, I

757
00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:52.679
drop my kids off to the house
and my wife has abandoned them and left

758
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:55.760
them alone, and then the kids
would be able to verify that because they

759
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:59.800
would show up and the kids would
have no one supervising them. Four year

760
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:05.000
old and an eleven year old.
This is sick. It's getting deep,

761
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:08.800
right. And so while he was
doing all of these manipulative things behind her

762
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:14.239
back, he's acting a little bit
different to Sadie's face. He played the

763
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:16.159
woe is me part. He would
tell her how hurt he was and that

764
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:20.400
he was wanting to get back together. And he even kept calling her Sadie

765
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.320
Bear, which was his nickname for
her when they were together. She did

766
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.079
not want to be Sadie Bear now, but he still referred to her as

767
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:28.960
that, and he would tell her
how much he loved her, no matter

768
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:32.400
how much she refused the advances,
and then would respond angrily when she did

769
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:37.840
not accept those advances and then become
more vindictive. So Zach even enlisted his

770
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:43.000
daughter further, which we find out, to go through her mother's phone and

771
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:47.760
then report back anything she read or
saw to him. So police assessed the

772
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:52.519
totality of this circumstance so far,
and based on the proof that they were

773
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:57.480
able to obtain on May twenty.
First of twenty twenty, Zach Anderson was

774
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:04.920
arrested not for the Missis seeing roso
Leo, but for stalking of his ex

775
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:09.519
Sadie. Now, listen, there's
a lot more to this story and I

776
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:14.159
cannot possibly complete it in this one
episode will be here for a week,

777
00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:16.679
Okay, So I'm gonna complete this
and conclude it in the next episode that

778
00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:20.920
I do. Until then, though, I want you to ask yourself this,

779
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:27.440
how many narcissists does it take to
unscrew a light bulb? Well,

780
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.800
I can tell you the answer.
It's none, because they only use gas lighting.