Part 2 | Darkness Fell: The Double Murder of Chip and Claudia Northup

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts. Some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

0:51 Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ You're back with part two of this two part series that I am doing. So as you're listening right now, if you are like, oh wait a minute, this is a part two, yep, you need to go back listen to part one before we jump into today's episode. Now, before I get started, I do have a couple of shout outs that I'm going to do, and we are going to start in Houston, Texas, where miss Kelly Esparza lives. How are you doing over there, Kelly? How are things in Texas? I hope that it's wonderful. I will actually be in your neck of the woods in about two weeks because my niece is graduating and I'm going to watch that happen so I'll be near you. But I'm waving at you on the camera. Thank you so much for joining my crime family. And you are the difference, as I always say, and I look forward to speaking with you on our Patreon app. And then we're going to go to Jacksonville, Florida, where I've got Miss Helen.

1:46 And I believe you would say calm or cold girl. You're gonna have to give me a pronunciation on that one, because I do not want to mess that one up. But Helen has joined our crime family, guys, and we are so happy to have her join our group. Thank you so much much, and I'm waving to you, miss Helen. And then last for today, but certainly not least, is mister Rick Phillips from Blossberg. What is this Pennsylvania? Okay? Well I again, mister Rick. Wow. I know I've spoken to you a couple of times. I think you're on my Facebook too, and you're a follower and we talk a few times. We've spoken a few times at least on there. So Rick, thank you from the bottom of my heart for joining. Your support means everything to me. It helps me to keep doing everything that I'm doing. And so y'all are today's special People VIP and those are your shout outs. I hope that I got your names right and talk to me.

2:33 Chat to me if I did a mispronunciation, because I want to get that right. But we're gonna jump right on in to part two of this episode about mister Chip and Miss Claudia and. Where we left off last time. Quick recap is that the couple were stabbed and disemboweled. They were an elderly couple. They were at home asleep in their bed whenever all of this took place. Police were limited on the evidence that was on the scene, and they were focusing in on one of mister Chip's grandsons based on a drawing that they found that looked a lot like the crime scene. When a random nine to one one call came in, it changed the entire course of their investigation, and that call would lead to information that there were three male teen friends that were in a band.

3:20 These guys' names were Kevin. Green Alva is how they referred to the other guy, and his name ended up being al Vero Garabay and then Daniel Marsh, so Kevin, Alva and Daniel were in this band. Alvaro was the best friend of Daniel Marsh, but he had decided to quit the band because he had recently gotten freaked out by Daniel and his increasingly odd behavior, including that Daniel told Alva that he had killed that elderly couple that had made the news, which was mister Chip and miss Claudia, and. So Alva got so upset by this he is the one who ended up calling nine to one one. He pointed the police in the direction of Daniel as the killer, and so he was also.

4:06 Alva was also questioned by police. Now because of the detail that Alvaro knew about the murders those specifics, police at first thought he might be the killer, but when police brought in Daniel Marsh for questioning, he was more than comfortable admitting that he, although only fifteen years old, he had been looking forward to killing somebody, and the couple seemed to be the people that he chose. He had been fantasizing and dreaming of taking someone's life when he went out on the prow hunting one night. The open window on the front of mister Chip and Mimsus Claudia's home is what initially caught his attention, and that's why he chose that home completely at random. Now, he had no known connection to this couple other than his father living temporarily on the same street. But police would also find that he hadn't lived with his father for someone time, and by the way, Daniel's own juvenile behavior was the reason that he had not been living with his father. Now, despite his dad's please, Daniel was doing whatever he wanted to do in terms of like behavior and the way that he was living his life is that father had gotten completely irritated and outdimeeed that he kept coming home drunk.

5:22 He would come home. High, and after being shuffled back and forth between his mother's house and his father's house, his father eventually just drew the line when he was fourteen years old and he just was done with him. He's like, you got to go. If you are not going to follow my rules, then you're out of the house. So adding fuel to that fire was that his mother, Daniel's mom seemed completely oblivious to his behavior, which was continuing underneath her roof. So now that even more information was coming to light as to Daniel not only acting out and being being ungovernable, it was more than just fantasizing. For example, he wasn't new to sneaking into houses. So when detectives were at first interviewing people and asking questions, that included his girlfriend at the time, and she told them a few things that had occurred before with her and Daniel, but also things that had occurred after the now known murders had taken place that just really had her uncomfortable. And one of those things was that their relationship had become more physical, and by physical, I mean sexually physical. And so she expanded on that and said that choking and kind of like hurting her was something that.

6:47 Daniel really enjoyed doing. There was a cross in his mind where sex and excitement was mixed with violence, and he really liked that combat. So the other thing that she also told police was that Daniel had snuck into her home and he had come in through the doggie door, which is creepy enough. She actually ended up being on the phone with friend Alva Alvaro, and they were then both upset because by then he had confessed to both of them that he had committed these murders and I was crawling in through doggy doors and surprising her. And so they were discussing whether or not to call the police and what to do.

7:33 And this all happened around that same time. So while Daniel's confession left it no mystery about the mechanics of stabbing this elderly couple to death, what remained difficult to reconcile here was his explanation. And I know right now you're going, well, there is no explanation, there's no answer to why someone would do this, and I'd have to agree with you. But Daniel did give an. A explanation of kind of what was going on, and he remained calm, almost clinical, but with intermittent giddiness and excitement. As he described with a detached level of thrill and curiosity, how he attacked, murdered, and then removed the organs of mister Chip and miss Claudia, and his recounting of these events.

8:27 Picture this. His recounting of the events was done with eye contact as he spoke to the investigators. He was locked in. It wasn't like he dropped his head. Realizing, you know, damn, you know, I'm admitting to something that is beyond violent, is beyond common behavior. No eye contact, as he explained it, and he had this air of giddiness that he wanted to share what he had done. There was no empathy, there was no remorse, no emotion either in terms of fear of any kind of possible rejection by the investigators that what he was saying. It's like he didn't even think that they might not like what he was saying, that they might not be abhorred by, but the things that he was admitting to Instead, as he made eye contact and he spoke to these investigators, he did it with this feeling of near belief, almost that the investigators would understand what he said he was feeling and that they would join in on his thrill.

9:36 As he told the story of what he had done. The things that he said were devoid of the reality that these were actual people, These were people that he was doing this too. His direct quote, he was excited. He was nervous, but excited and exhilarated about. What he was about to to do. So when I did episode one, I kind of gave you a walk through of how it was envisioned. The things that happened during these murders. While it was thought though that mister Chip would have been stabbed first, it was actually the opposite. Whenever the confession came around, he started with miss Claudia, and in his own words, he said, but she quote just wouldn't die. He said, it just very aloof you know, started stabbing her, but she just wouldn't die. So her screams and her pleads with to stop stop help that woke mister Chip up during the attack. Well, when it woke him up, he turned and he started stabbing mister Chip in the neck as you know, as well as the other stab wounds. And so that very quickly because of what he where. He cut him in the neck. That rendered him pretty quickly unable to effectively fight.

11:00 And so he just kept stabbing them. And these are his words, messed around with their bodies, and that's why he eventually inserted things inside of them after they died. But the reason he says that he inserted those items was to fuck with the people who had to investigate it. He wanted to freak people out. He wanted it to blow their minds what he had done with these with these bodies. He was just very forthcoming with the fact that he had experimented on them. He said, yeah, I pulled fat from the woman's leg and from her abdomen. I cut into uh, I'll call him mister Chip. He didn't refer to him that way, but he cut into mister Chip's forehead. All of that done just out of curiosity.

11:47 He just wanted to see what it looked like, what it was like, what it would feel like. His words, as if they were just generic bodies that were there simply to satisfy his gore obsession, his sick curiosity, and the fact that he enjoyed this is what. Is so damn evil. There is no other word. It's evil. It is demonic. At least when someone kills someone and it's out of anger. I'm not talking about this case, just in general. At least, when someone is extremely angry and they kill somebody, everyone who is assessing that instance on some small scale can identify with the feeling of anger.

12:37 Okay, and I say that because we've all felt it before. We know how just unadulterated anger, how it makes you feel when someone has done you so wrong. Right, You know what anger feels like on a small scale. You understand what someone was feeling in that moment. But what separates us is our humanity, the recognition of the inherent value of life. That's the difference in those situations that even though you may despise somebody in any given moment, you're so anger you want to just rip their head off, the difference is that you recognize that that person's life is worth more than your anger towards them. And that's why we know that murder it's not even in the realm of reality for most people, because that's never going to be the answer, because life is precious, Even a life that you can't stand, to just put it blankly, even a life you cannot stand, is still more precious and more valuable than murder. But in this case, this wasn't rage driven. There's no anger in it towards these specific people. It was the fact that he found joy in watching other people suffer. Blood and fear were literally the things that he loved, and that's what made him excited.

14:01 It is devoid of the general ways in which we as human beings govern ourselves in terms of reactions to. Hurt, grief, struggle, and death. This was more than cruel, and it was alien to the laws of humanity. There is nothing in this that anyone should ever be able to, even in a small semblance of anything, relate to it or understand it. It goes beyond understanding. And while his confession, the complete confession, it took one hundred and sixty five pages typed to transcribe it all right, he was very clear on how he felt about the murders. He never once said he felt bad, He never once said that he regretted what he had done. Instead, he described the murders of these two people as giving him the most enjoyable feeling he had ever experienced, and he added that it was peak.

15:06 It was heightened to the. Highest point when they were still conscious and when they were resisting him, when they were fighting him, that's when he hit peak enjoyment. He described it his words, not mine, as better than sex. And he was very clear that the high he got from that experience lingered for weeks. For weeks, he was on a high about it. He's thought about it every minute of every day, and it just kept him on a cloud. The only thing that I think I've ever felt, that I can say left me on a high for weeks was falling in love you know, getting to hang out with my husband day in and day out, and the fact that it was reciprocated. You know, the butterflies in your stomach that you get when you fall in love and it lasts and it continues to last. That's the only thing I can think of that put me on a high for weeks, aside from giving birth to my children and looking at their faces every morning and bottle feeding. You know, I don't understand this. And he elaborated how he loved the feelings so much that he went out again looking for a victim to kill. But when he did this, he didn't bring a knife with him that time. He specifically brought a baseball bat with him. And the reason he

16:37 brought the baseball bat is because it was being very a calculated decision on his part, because he didn't want whoever he killed next their death. He didn't want that associated with the stabbing murders when he eventually found his next victims, which thank god, he did not as far as we know, because no other bodies were found before he was arrested. I mean, when he went out that second night hunting for victims, had he come across anyone, there is no doubt they would be dead. There's proof in it already that he's willing to kill. So, as the questioning of Daniel continued, the detective decided to ask him just a very pointed question, very pointed detective.

17:21 He said to Daniel, how would you kill me? He just said it, how would you kill me? And without hesitation, without checking up, without even having to rack his brain, he said, I would choke you with your tie, I would bash your head into the mirror, I would gouge your eyes out, and I would use the mirror glass to cut your throat. But then right after that he followed up with, but it's nothing personal. Well, I mean, of course it's not personal. You don't know him. You're doing it for you the benefit and the fun of what you get out of that. Of course personal, because you're not you're not personifying the people you're.

18:03 Doing this to. They're objects to you. But he said it's nothing personal after telling him how he wanted to kill him. So, when his friend Alvaro expanded on what all he had been told about the murders by Daniel, he was he was able to give a timeline on this, and he said that he had gone to Daniel's house on. The Tuesday after the murders. Part of this was because he had already been told Daniel kept trying to say he killed these people, but he didn't really want to hear it. He thought it was bullshit. But once he started to believe him, he decided that he wanted to go question him further because he was starting to believe him now that he may have done this.

18:45 And so he goes over to Daniel's house. It's the Tuesday after the murder, so, I mean, it's just just what forty eight hours roughly after he's killed these. People, and in the degree that he did. And Daniel had described to him that the murders gave him the best feeling of his life. He got really really excited and animated when he was describing this to Alvaro. He then ran over to his closet and started pulling things out of the closet and he was showing him things that he actually used in those murders. He pulled out that the knife, the murder weapon, gloves, ski cat boots, even the jacket that he wore whenever he killed mister Chip and missus Claudia. So, based on that information, that they gathered. As they realized Alvaro wasn't you know, the killer, and that he had these details because it was true what he had been told, they go and they search his mother's home for the items, and they would get the search warrant to do just that. Now, Alvaro, I want to focus on this for a minute, because I think sometimes as.

19:48 An adult, we look at things through the lens of what should what should you do. Based on the information and experience we have as adults. But Alvaro being young, remember he was just young teenager himself, he didn't quite know what to do with the information that he had been given. He described it as being surreal, and that's why he didn't go immediately to police. He was kind of in a fog about, oh my god, like this is real, this is not a joke. So he did the best that he knew of what to do. And this is what I mean. He didn't just sit on his ass for a month and not and not do anything or say anything. When he realized that this was not a joke, he did go to his school and he decided to tell the school, hey, y'all need to check Daniel Marsh. He's got a knife on him. He knew that Daniel always cared a knife, and that's why he went to the school and he told them that because in his mind, Alva's mind, that had been seen as a murder weapon, like a knife had been used to murder two people. He needed to tell the school because then he would number one be removed, but number two at least there wouldn't be a knife.

21:06 Because he was getting scared that this was gonna happen to maybe Daniel's girlfriend, maybe himself. He didn't know, so. He knew it would get him away, and he knew that something would happen, and he was right because Daniel was suspended from school whenever he was found to have that knife on him. So Alvarro also went a step further and he decided that he needed to contact Daniel's dad. So he went and found Daniel's dad and he told him, look, your son is claiming responsibility for this double murder that just happened in town. And he was trying to say, you know, help, like this is what happened, but Daniel's dad didn't believe him. So you know, I'm not giving grace here. I mean, I'm just thinking that. You know, if someone came to you and said your kid killed two people, would you believe it. I don't think that his dad should be villainized on this. He just didn't believe what was going on. So when Alvrou realized that he was getting nowhere, basically with the people that he saw as authority figures, i e. The school just suspended him.

22:14 The parent wasn't believing him whenever he was trying to say, your son killed two people. That's when he went to the next step where he decided to call the police. He drove around until he could find a payphone to place the anonymous nine one one tip, and then you know how it went from there because they convinced him to come in and talk. So when it said that Alvrou didn't do anything and that he just sat on it, that's not quite true. I think he did the best with the tools that he had and with the experience and information that he had. Before he actually called police, he was trying to solve it, but he was afraid of Daniel. So police, like I said, went and they executed the search warrant at his parents' home, and just as Alvro had claimed, they found the bloody kneife, the clothes, and all of those other items in Daniel's closet or bedroom.

23:06 When Daniel was asked by the police, why did would you keep the knife? Like, why would you keep the murder weapon? That doesn't seem very smart, he said because it was a souvenir. He kept it because he wanted it. He wanted to remember what that night and the excitement that it brought him. This is just absolute proof evidence. There's no doubt that Daniel enjoyed every second of what he had done to those people, and he wanted to commemorate it. After he did it, he said, it was pure happiness. Adrenaline and dopamine was rushing through his veins. And you remember how I told you I said that the high lasted for weeks. Well, there's another thing that adds to proof that that's true, because he wasn't necessarily doing the best in school, but after the murders he improved so much in school in those weeks that he was named Student of the month after he had committed the murders. Imagine, killing people is what makes you improve in school? Tell me you're not unhinged. So detectives at this point said without a doubt that this was a serial killer in training. It was very clear that Daniel didn't feel sympathy at.

24:26 All for people. His direct quote, by the way, I do not feel sympathy for other people at all. I do not feel empathy for them either, talking about his victims. So, as you can imagine, Daniel was arrested and he was charged with the murders of Chip and Claudia Northulp. Now, this should have been a very clear cut case, one where the formalities of it all are going to have to take some time. We know that, right, the court system is slow and all of that. But in the end, there should have been just an easy conviction, hook line and sinker the doors behind him. Case closed. At least if this were a movie. Okay, that is what would have happened, all wrapped up in a powerful bow. You know of the death penalty and never seeing Daniel marsh again Enscene right in the credits role and you clap because the bad.

25:16 Guy's been handled. But I have to remind you that this is real life, and this case, this specific case, will now serve as a prime example of how something so damn obvious can completely and totally get derailed in an instant now to start, because of the nature of the level of the depravity of Daniel's crime, he was scheduled to be tried as an adult in return for this realization that he was not going to be tried as a juvenile, that he was going to be tried as an adult. Once everything was filed, and Daniel real okay, that is the case.

26:01 I am going to be tried as an adult. That's whenever he decided to plead guilty by reason of insanity. But do not for a second get caught up in the guilty part. Okay, hold on a second, because to claim guilty by reason of insanity, it's not just a give me not everybody can just plead to this. It used to be that way, but it's not anymore. There's got to be an overall consensus found amongst the court and you know, all of the players that the person that's trying to plead insanity has clearly demonstrated that they qualify for that plea. There's like a qualification process.

26:43 So the defense has to show that at the time of the crime, the defendant absolutely suffered from a severe mental disease or some type of mental defect that prevented them from understanding the nature of their actions or knowing that their actions were wrong. So let me give you an example. Most of us will already know Andrea Yates. That case, Andrea Yates drowned her five children. She admitted she did it. It was very clear that she did it. But she was found not guilty by reason of insanity. I know there were two trials, but don't get caught up in that. But she was found not guilty by reason of insanity. And that's because the evidence was overwhelming that she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and she believed, she genuinely believed that she was saving her children from damnation by removing them from the world by drowning them.

27:42 She was committed to a maximum security state mental hospital. There's no comparison between the Andrea Yates case and this one that I've just given you none. Also to that note, the police weren't stupid, they were not dumb, and they completely and totally anticipated that this claim would be made after his arrest. So what they did was during their interrogation they lay the foundation in their questioning of irrefutable evidence that the charges that were filed against him would in no way give him any room to be able to claim any type of insanity plea. Also, whenever his friend Kevin was questioned, Kevin even said Daniel had told him that if he ever got caught for a murder, he would claim insanity. So this was a pretty sweet move, a pretty smart move on behalf of the investigators and the detectives. And so how do they lay this foundation? Well, first thing, insane and evil aren't the same thing. We tend to put them together. You'd have to be insane to be that evil, but they're not the same. Insane people are incapacitated by the inability to perceive reality. Like Andrea Yates it just in her reality demons were after her children and that's why she killed them. But evil people that are not insane, just evil people. They cause

29:14 harm and are morally reprehensible because they want to. So police asked Daniel questions during his interviews. Specifically, they said, hey, have you ever heard voices or is there anything that may alter your reality of why you know, do you hear voices? Have you been commanded by a spirit or anything like that to do this? And he said no, absolutely not. I'm not crazy. Nope, nope, did it because I wanted to. They even questioned his girlfriend at the time, did Daniel ever tell you at any point in time that he ever heard voices or that, you know, say anything that made him seem like he was detached from reality?

29:56 She said never, not once. Well, then daniel defense team hired a psychologist in preparation for trial to kind of lay this foundation of oh, he's insane, but in a wild turn of events, the psychologist agreed with the prosecution. The psychologist was like, no, this dude's completely sane. He's evil, but he's completely sane. Daniel knew his actions were wrong, and he's very clear that he enjoyed what he did. He even told his girlfriend's mother, okay, check this out. Before Daniel was arrested, but after he had killed the couple, he was in the kitchen talking to his girlfriend and his girlfriend's mother and he asked this mother, hey, have you heard about that double murder in town that took place?

30:48 And the mom just shook her head and was like, no, I haven't heard about that. And he said something in response along the lines of only a sick person would do that. Huh. And then he looked up and he immediately made eye contact with his girlfriend while he was smirking, and so she became extremely uncomfortable by that. Only a crazy person would do that, right, And he's like smirking looking at his girlfriend like they're in some type of camaraderie about how I don't know how awesome it is. He loved the discomfort that he could make others feel. When Daniel met with that psychologist for the very first evaluation, Daniel even threatened to kill the psychologist very clearly said ah, I'd kill you too. So the psychologist definitely felt that Daniel did have some type of mental illness about him, but he was very clear that this kid's not insane.

31:38 He is very with it. He's just evil. So the trial would move forward and the defense would decide that they were going to focus on SSRIs or zoloft as the reason or the or the fact that Daniel had been taking this and they're going to say that is what caused Daniel to have this psychotic break and do what he did. Now, do you want to tell you this? The FDA has warned that zole off or search alean it can cause increased agitation, hostility, aggression in people. But there is never, ever, anywhere a documented direct link between taking an antidepressant and murder, maybe suicide, self harm, but not murder. So while the defense clung to the theory that, oh, no, you know, this is a medically induced issue, blah blah blah blah blah, there was a huge hole in their claim that they kind of ignored, and it was the fact that Daniel had been killing animals just for fun before he ever started the zoloft. It's all, it's a well known fact by people that serial killers. That's kind of a red flag.

32:55 They enjoy killing animals. Remember you liked to kill that cat in episode one. He did it for fun. He liked to watch the life you know, fade from that cat's eyes. So if he was willing to kill before for fun, he also had been telling people about his homicidal fantasies before the medication started as well, So he was killing for fun and telling people he wanted to kill people all before he ever started taking the zoloft. Common sense tells you that that was not the cause of his behavior. In my humble opinion, there should have been less time defending or defining zoloft and its unconfirmed side effects, and there should have been more time in courts spent defining evil, because you would have been way more convincing with that one. So on September the twenty sixth of twenty fourteen, the state would rest its case and it would be sent off to the jury for deliberation, and there would only be two hours of deliberation before the jury came back with a verdict of guilty a first degree murder. The jury also found Daniel Marsh to be completely sane and he was sentenced to fifty.

34:06 Two years to life. Mister Chip and Miss Claudia's family obviously was happy with this, a huge sigh of relief. There was finally. A somewhat of closure is not the right word, but there was some sort of solution to this destructive, very destructive chapter in their lives. They felt like it was closing and now they could maybe open a new chapter moving forward, focusing on the memories of their beloved Chip and Granza. But that sigh of relief would be very short lived. I know that people have been listening to my show for a while. Know that when I say my motto of victims first. I mean that the victims should always be put first. But the following chain of events that I'm about to give you are going to be a prime example of why I feel so strongly to vocalize the victim's first motto, because I could have ended this episode here. I've been like, Yay, he went to prison, go justice, But that would be so unfair to the victims' families. It would be beyond unfair. This is not, I repeat, this is not a politics podcast.

35:23 You do you in regard to politics, Live your life, America, But this is a true crime podcast with real victims, and so I'm going to give you everything in that regard, especially when laws effect the victims after a ginormous tragedy. And I hope that you will listen to what I'm about to tell you and weigh it carefully. Daniel Marsh was convicted, he was sentenced, He was sent off to prison to go spend a massive amount of time behind bars. Wonderful that alone, that's small bit was enough to at least help mister Chip and Miss Claudia's family sleep soundly at night.

36:05 That this guy was behind bars and he couldn't hurt anybody. Else, But they would only get that sound sleep for roughly six hundred days before politics would start politicking. And what do I mean by that? Strap in for this one. In the two years after Daniel Marsh heard those bars slam shut behind him, never free to murder innocent people ever again, a lawmaker in the state of California decided that he wanted a change in terms of enhancing public safety. So what do you think I mean when I say let's make a change to enhance public safety, Because to me, that means being even more steel fisted in the face of offenders, especially violent offenders.

36:57 Like Daniel Marsh. Well, a proposition was proposed under the thought process that rehabilitation of offenders would reduce recidivism, i e. People won't go back to prison if we rehabilitate them. Well, no shit, Sherlock, right, we all think that off the cuff, this sounds great, But this proposition would be one that would actually directly affect Daniel marsh but for the better, hear me out, for the better, even though he was one of the most violent offenders in the prison. This was written in a way that it would benefit Daniel Marsh. And this is where an ounce of voter research would have been worth its weight in gold. And if you truly care about victims like I do, then this will matter to you.

37:51 Because in California, Proposition fifty seven was introduced to the public and overwhelmingly this was approved by voters in the November twenty sixteen election. The changes approved were to expand nonviolent offender parole consideration. So basically, you know, if you are nonviolent, maybe we can rehabilitate, get him back out and let him make a positive change, YadA, YadA, YadA. But there were other aspects to this that people may not have either realized or understood, because this proposition also changed the rules and the regulations of juvenile offenders. So basically stated, this proposition that was passed made it to where Daniel's conviction solely because of his juvenile age at the time he was convicted. Well, it meant that his case was now going to be remanded back down to a juvenile judge for consideration of sentencing reduction. That is huge sentencing reduction. He's only been in prison two years by this point. Why Well, because this proposition was basically about second chances. Before the DA made the decision of whether to try a team as an adult. Okay, they make this decision weighed on how sophisticated a crime was,

39:26 how heinous a crime was. All of that is taken into account when they decide to charge someone as an adult. Daniels was obviously both heinous by his own descriptions and his own statements, and it was sophisticated because he explained very clearly that he had planned it, he prepped it, and that he wanted to avoid detection. The heinousness. He was joyous as he stabbed missus Claudia. He said she screamed out in pain, she begged for him to stop. The sheer amount of stabs and the exploratory cuttings of his victims. He even said that he punched mister Chip in the face. He beat that man after he was already dead. He then mutilated their bodies until direct quote from Daniel Marsh, they shit themselves end quote. If that is not heinous, what qualifies? And then in terms of sophistication, he did things like he stole the mask from a store, the one that he was gonna wear to commit the murders.

40:27 He did that ahead of time. He sharpened the knife that he used ahead of time. I believe it was his mother's hunting knife he had taken to do this. He sharpened it so it would be sharp, sharp, sharp, and he would cut like a hot knife through butter. He wore gloves. He put the duct tape on the bottom of his shoes to avoid detection. If that is not sophisticated, then nothing is okay. But now, because of this new proposition, the juvenile judge is the person who now held the whole decision making process of what to do with him just because of his age. Fuck all the shit I just told you that he did.

41:09 That's irrelevant. Now we're just gonna remand it back down to a juvenile court judge and they get to make all of the decisions. So what this now meant was that Daniel had the possibility of being released at the age of twenty five, and it all was in the sole decision of this one judge. When the family of Miss Claudia and mister Chip got that phone call, Daniel was only twenty one. He was already actually twenty one is the way I should say that he. Was twenty one. He might get out at twenty five years old, for what he had done. Upon his release. Also, they were informed that he would be released completely, no parole, no supervision, nothing, just free to go do what he wanted and live his life. The family could not catch their breath while they were panicking this situation that they thought was now way behind them. Daniel was being advised in the prison that hey, Bud, you might be getting out shortly.

42:18 He would have just this freedom come, I mean. The elatement, the joy, right, Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna get out. But first he had to go what was to what was called a fitness hearing, okay, and what happened, what had to happen at this fitness hearing is he had to explain to the court or to the judge how he had been rehabilitated, and he had to show that he had good behavior and that he was just you know, the guy for this, uh, this bill to benefit. So here's the kicker. Okay. In the meantime, while all of this is happening, the family is freaking out. Daniel marsh is on cloud n I.

43:01 There was a woman named Maryette Formo, and she was now embarking on a new adventure in her life. She had created a nonprofit, and she called it Brilliance Inside. So her goal of her new venture was to tap into the unique inherent brilliance that. People have, and they use their. Brilliance that's inherently within them to engage in a true metamorphosis of their potential and solve the world's problems. All right, in plain terms, because that's super That sounds like pillow fluff to me in plain terms. In October of twenty seventeen, she created a nonprofit that she believed would stop violence and transform prisons into houses of peaceful people. So what she did was she invited inmates from the prison to.

44:03 Give TED talks. I hold a lot of value in TED talks, by the way, I'm a fan of Ted talks. But hang with me here. She invited inmates to give TED talks that focus on their brilliance rather than focus on what they had done to land their asses in prison. Let's not talk about what they did. Let's focus on their brilliance. These are all brilliant people behind bars, and we need to look at that, y'all. I'm gonna be frank here. I've never done acid and I've never smoked meth, But just saying the bullshit that just came out of my mouth. That's the only way that I think that I may ever know what that may feel like to just frick and do acid. I cannot even believe I have just said what I have said and someone actually believes that. Okay, but either way, guess who signed up and was accepted to give a fucking ted talk. You guessed it, Daniel Marsh.

45:04 Now I need to give you a little bit of insight. Maybe not all of you. I do need to give the people who ride unicorns and throw glitter in their lives. I do need to give a little insight to those people. Okay, Everything that an inmate does has an angle. I'm telling you everything they do has an angle. You can hate me for telling the truth, or you can love me for sharing it, but it is what it is. Exhibit A. Just fore you, Daniel Marsh. In those years that he was behind bars, he refused to participate in any rehabilitative programs while he was incarcerated until he was advised that he may potentially be released by a juvenile court judge should he be able to prove how changed he is. I e that proposition fifty seven.

45:54 I've been talking about all of a sudden, now Daniel becomes a man of peace, a man of change, and a guy who wants to give. A ted talk about all of it, which he is granted the opportunity to do. Incredibly. Now, some people are gonna jump on me right here and say, well, well, yeah, you know, he was able to give the Ted talk, but there were rules to this. He had to qualify. Not every inmate qualified for this. And you're not talking about that. No, no, no, no, I'm gonna address that. You're right, You're absolutely right. Certain inmates had to qualify for this opportunity. They had to have good behavior, and they want to make a change.

46:39 You're damn right. Okay, Well, guess what, guys, Everything in life is relative. When when someone is waiting in jail, Okay, a lot of things happen, and I want to open your eyes to one of them. Number one, When Daniel was just in jail before conviction, before he went to prison, When he was in jail, he got his ass beat the fuck up by other end mates when they found out who he was and what he had done to those elderly people. Guess what when you become a target in jail or in prison, just like Daniel marsh was targeted. That's when they put you into ad SEG administrative segregation. Basically, you're locked up for your own protection because someone's gonna kill you.

47:22 Right. Well, guess what. When you are locked up, you don't have access to a lot of things. Now I don't have any access to the records of his exact locations within the prison or his housing, but this much I do know when you are locked up. When you are locked up and you don't have freedom to roam and to do and to fratenize, it's really hard to get in trouble, isn't it. It's really hard to get in trouble when you are locked up. You're limited, You're restricted. Like think for just a moment. But either the double murderer who laughed at what he did and said that it felt better than sex, who was very clear that he had no empathy, no remorse, and refused to participate in any rehabilitation whatsoever until freedom started ringing. He was now going to give a TED talk on stage in front of thousands of viewers, if not more. This is real life here, what I'm telling you.

48:25 This is not a movie. So imagine you are the family of mister Chip and misus Claudia. You turn on the fucking TV or you're watching the computer wherever you are, and you see the murderer, the very person who disimboweled your grandparents, cut them up, explored in their bodies, ran around bragging about it, and wanted to do it again. You see that very person now standing on a stage talking to others about how brilliant he is and how he needs everyone to embrace their humanity. How would you feel about that? What would you do?

49:06 And listen. I'm not gonna play a word of him saying any part of his ted talk. I will not do that. I'm not even gonna give him the platform. But what I will do is tell you that I got the transcript, okay, of everything that was said. I got the full frickin' transcript about what was said, and he titled his talk Embracing our Humanity. And I'm gonna give you some excerpts from it, and I'm gonna give you some pointers that I would like you to ponder from this. Please listen to this. So he gets up and he starts out, I remember standing in the doorway of our home with my mother and father on either side of me. They each had me by one of my arms and pulling me back and forth, Dad pulling me into the house, Mom pulling me back out. They had just had another huge fight, and Mom once again claimed that she was leaving. She already had some suitcases and my sister in the car.

50:06 All she needed now was me. But of course Dad wasn't having that. So I stood there between them, crying uncontrollably as they screamed at each other and yanked me back and forth in and out of the house. Eventually, my mom would get her way and I left with her, but at the end of the day, we'd all be back back at home underneath the same roof, pretending that nothing ever happened. Now. What he's wanting right now is for you to feel sorry for him. You do hear that, right? All I heard him say is that I am a child victim, one who lived in a two parent household with two parents who loved me, and they both wanted me in their lives. That's what I heard. But he obviously is wanting you to feel sorry for him.

50:51 He goes on. The home environment that I grew up in was both lonely and hostile. For the vast majority of my childhood, I felt alienated, like I was hated yet completely irrelevant. Okay, so again he's a victim. I felt much more like an object than a person. Hmm. Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it. The indifference with which my parents treated me made me feel as though I had no connection to humanity. That is in vast contradiction to the very first thing that he just said. Doesn't sound like they're indifferent. It sounds like they both wanted him, and they were fighting each other and throughout my entire childhood. In fact, up until two months ago, I had harbored a dark secret that I never told anyone in my entire life. He's never spoken of it, not one time, guys, not once. When he was a child, he was sexually abused multiple times by two different people, both of whom he loved and he trusted. Growing up, he felt like there wasn't a soul in the world that he could tell.

52:02 He was the son. And he says, I was smart, and I was expected to be strong and tough and okay, and never needed help from anyone. So what just happened there? If I'm going to break this down real quick, is that he's trying to give off this beautifully broken vibe. Again, he's a victim. But I took issue with a lot of this. Number one, Like I told you, he never ever, ever, in the history of ever mentioned that he was sexually abused. Ever, it is also very interesting to me that we can't prove this in any way, shape or form. It's also very important to point out to you when he was questioned about that, he refused to expand on it, and he refused to give names.

52:47 Hmm. Seems like if you are trying to rehabilitate and you're trying to get your truth out there, you would give the damn truth because you might want to save other people or there might be other victims. But yet you won't say anything about it and you won't give names. And he also doesn't mention in this paragraph that he was a bisexual. Okay, and we know this, and there's a reason I'm telling you this. I'm not doubting him for being bisexual. I'm getting to a point. Just give me time, okay, But Daniel's bisexual. He experimented sexually with both of his male friends that were in that band. Now I'm gonna say allegedly, because eventually one of them would deny that, the.

53:28 Kevin Green would would end up denying that. Okay, but he's. Saying that he was sexually abused and blah blah blah blah blah. Now I want you to hang on to that for a second. Don't let that thought go. I'm gonna get back to it, he goes on. But I wasn't okay. I felt alone, alone and ashamed and disgusting, confused, weak, hurt, scared, and I had no one, no one to confide in, to cry or to hold me, or to tell me that it was going to be okay and that it wasn't my fault, no one, And so I stuffed the secret down, deep deep down, and tried to pretend as though it never happened. There it festered for years, and I would carry those feelings with me every single day.

54:12 So what seems to be happening here is he's again telling you how much of a victim he is. He's never spoken about anything horrible that he's done, and he's. Inlaying that not his fault. Thought process into this, he says, as time went on, it seemed like every person I encountered in the world used and took advantage of me. Again, he's a victim by everyone he ever encountered. Ever, they took his kindness for weakness and discarded me like a piece of trash. Well, I don't know. What kindness he's referring to, because if everyone he ever came in contact with did that to him, why were all of his friends saying they were deathly afraid of him?

54:52 Where was the kindness? Then? Where was it. Because people were freaked out by him before he was killing people? I was bullied in school as well as at home, and in the process I became extremely introverted. Okay, Well, if he was bullied at home, he just said that his parents treated him with complete indifference and they didn't really have any type of connection with him. So when were they bullying him? And also, since he became extremely introverted, is that except for all the rough, choking sex that he did with his high school girlfriend and all the drugs he was using with his friends, and all the gore porn that he loved to look up and watch with his friends, was that part of the being introverted?

55:33 Is that? Where that was? Because I don't know. The only person he says. That I would come to think genuinely cared about me was a man named Boris. Boris worked with my mother, and over time he became a mentor to me, a big brother, even a father figure. Well, even in that point right there, he's implying that he needed a father figure, when in reality, what we know is that his dad wanted to be his father. His dad tried to love him, tried to teach him the ways, but his own misbehavior had him kicked out of his father's house because he refused to follow the rules. You didn't need a father figure. You refused to listen to your father. You are not a victim there. That was your own choice. He would spend time with me and take me to football games.

56:16 The connection that I developed with him made the pain that I was feeling bearable. When I was twelve years old, my mother fell ill. She was diagnosed, and he goes on and he lists her diagnoses, but basically neurological disorders that caused debilitating pain. For a long time she was bedridden, and because there was nobody else around, me and my sister were the ones that had to take care of her. Wow, Now all of a sudden, he's a hero. He's made himself a hero in this. He had to take care of his mother, feed her, help her in and out of the bathroom, hold her while she had seizures, and while she cried. It tore me apart to watch her fade away like that. And in a way it hurt me to have to comfort her in a way that I had so desperately wanted her to comfort me as a child. Now I take issue with that because again I've done an ounce of research. So he says he wanted to be comforted as a child. His mother never paid attention to him, other when she was fighting to have him in her life with her father and was you know, had her living under her roof. But what he doesn't mention is that he had been in a lot of therapy that the school thought that he needed to be in, that everyone and their mama felt like he needed to be in because he was acting like a psychopath. And whenever he decided he didn't want to go do that. His mother, the one you know that doesn't pay attention to him, never helps him, never does anything.

57:36 She was documented as making excuses for him that got him out of therapy so he wouldn't have to suffer through it. Is that the mother that never paid attention to you? Or is that the mother that seemed to be very permissive and help you do those things? I don't know, you can decide. In the middle of all of this, I was at my sister's boyfriend's house when I got a phone call from my mom. She was crying hysterically and kept trying to say something that I couldn't understand. I asked, again, Mom, what's wrong, what's going on? And what she said shattered his reality. So his mom does call him and talk to him, okay, but she said Boris is dead. Over the next couple of days, I'd find myself or I'd come to find out that Boris had taken his own life.

58:17 The person that I respected the most, my friend, my brother, my loving parental figure, had taken himself away from me. So it's all very egocentric there. I want to point that out. Not that, oh my god, he took his own life, Oh my god, he lost his life. It's that, No, he took himself away from me. He was gone. My connection to humanity was severed. I fell into a deep depression even deeper than the one I was already in. I stole pills from my mom. Over the course of a month, he says, he tried to overdose. He didn't. He failed. At the overdose, he woke up in a pile of his own vomit. And then at that time, he said that his hurt started turning into anger, and he just felt an unconstray rollable rage that grew stronger with each passing day. So again, feel sorry for him. Because he tried to overdose. He says he hated people who had hurt him. The hate continued to grow. He hated all of humanity. Deep down though, he just hated himself, and he just wanted to hurt the world that had hurt him so bad. When nobody cares about you and the people who are supposed to care deliberately hurt you, it's hard to care about others. But I'm trying to figure out who deliberately hurt him. Who deliberately hurt him, His friends that tried to be good to him until he started acting like crazy, His dad that tried to love him, even move closer to his ex wife so that he could be in his son's life. And his son refused to follow the rules, his mother, who did everything that

59:51 enabled him and loved him. Who hurt him? Because if he's referring to the abusers that supposedly sexually abused him, there's no name, there's no evidence, and he won't say who it was. So who who hurt you? And then he does say, I did horrible things to people who didn't deserve it. In the end, I became the same kind of person that I hated, someone who blindly hurt other people for no apparent reason, for no apparent reason. So he says, in his own words, he hurt people for no apparent reason. Okay, so that rage he goes on. It says it landed him in juvenile hall. But to his surprise, the staff there were some of the kindest people he had ever met. They taught me more about compassion than I can even begin to put into words. But when I was transferred to the California Youth Authority, I would question everything that I thought I had learned back in Juvie. The CYA facility where I was sent was extremely violent on almost a daily basis, Okay, time out, it was extremely violent, and that seems to have hurt him. Was it violent like the videos that he was obsessed with and he loved to watch the gore of kids being decapitated and draft and people dying and being hit by trains and being sliced and diced and executed. Those videos he loved. Was it violent like that?

1:01:08 Because I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't understand you loved that, you loved that when you were there. You didn't change your tune until you became an adult. And living in that environment brought a lot of anger and hatred that he thought it would just go right back up to the surface. But then someone or something was different this time, because he felt. Like he was truly cared for. He was connected with so many people in juvie, and once you've experienced something like that, it's hard to look away. So when he was turned when he turned eighteen, they transferred him to an adult prison. And this was not an easy transition. He said, I ended up living with a very violent, hateful man who'd lash out at me and start sell fights with me almost every day. It was after about a month, though, that he realized something he saw himself and that old man, and it.

1:02:02 Freaked him out. He knew then that if he didn't truly commit to changing, if he kept allowing himself to be trapped by his emotions and be disconnected from humanity, then he is who Daniel would would would be calm, real quick. Just want to let you know that ain't quite true, because he was refusing any type of therapy, any type until he learned about this Ted talk coming up. So if you were really trying to change yourself back, then, why were you refusing help? Why were you refusing therapy? And that's when the last thing in the world, or excuse me, that was the last thing in the world that I wanted.

1:02:47 Shortly after this revelation, I had another equally impactful encounter. I realized that I didn't understand who I was. I didn't understand all the things I've done. He goes on and on about how much change he's made, things about people that didn't make any sense to me. It occurred to me that once you understand someone, then you can begin to humanize it and view it with compassion and empathy. Make no mistake, make zero mistakes right now, guys, this is setting up the building blocks for people to apply that to his own crime. Promise you, I promise you that it occurred to me that once you understand something, then you can begin to humanize it and then view it with compassion and empathy.

1:03:36 He's saying that it's about this other guy. No it's not. It's for the listener to apply that to him. And during the process he changes topics. All of a sudden, he found out just how much racism is a part of prison life. I don't know where racism came in, but all of a sudden, he brings in racism, a very random yet reprehensible issue he just brings up, and then he goes on to that. He then went and. Decided to talk to this hardcore racist because he wanted to understand him. He wanted to understand the racist. And so he said that the racist told me how he grew up in a racist family with an abusive father, and that when he was a teenager he met a group of guys skinheads, and positive reinforcement from them is what he got, which is what.

1:04:23 He'd been craving for most of his life. Well, this whole thing here is about racism, which plays no role in anything about anything that he is related to here and so he's trying to say basically that he broke through a he broke through a barrier with a known racist, and he's just bringing up this big issue because he wants it to be tied to how great he is. I hope that people are seeing through all of this. He then said that that's whenever he started to connect with this racist on a human being level, and that just strengthened his resolution to let go of hate and to gain understanding and to further foster his own connection with humanity. And there's a saying he says that he heard hurt people, hurt people, and he said, I came to realize that there are no such things as evil people in this world, only damaged people. Notice here real quick, he said, there is no such thing as evil people in this world. Evil was never brought up in anything that he has said here. Evil was never brought up.

1:05:33 His statement was that hurt people, hurt people, and that's what impacted him. But then when he gets further down, he says there aren't evil people in the world. Guys. He is again he's trying to pull himself in to this assessment. Here hurt people, hurt people. He never said anything about evil. You know why, because this guy knows that what he did is evil and that he had evil intentions. And so he goes on to close and says, so I urge all of you to actively participate and further developing your connection to humanity, whether it's through volunteer work, reaching out to someone in need, or simply embracing those who are different from us. We have to be better than hate. We have to be better than fear. We must learn to respond with love even in the most difficult of situations.

1:06:17 But above all else, when this world seems too inhumane for us to bear, we must always always embrace our humanity. So there it is. That was his ted talk. And I want to let you know that after he completed all of that, everyone in the crowd jumped up and gave him a standing ovation. A standing ovation, not one mention of the crimes that he had committed, not one mention of the heinousness of the things that he had done. And he gets a standing ovation. Isn't this all just such a great coincidence that he's choosing to embrace his humanity and express how much he has changed in what two months right before this hearing to determine how much he has changed and should he be released. This TED talk was in April of twenty eighteen, right before that fitness hearing, explicitly for the purpose of determining whether he could be rehabilitated or not. So the hearing started a few months later on October the first, So miss Claudia's granddaughter.

1:07:26 Her name is. Sarah, Miss Claudia's granddaughter. Sarah, as well as many other people were in attendance to show support for the victimized family members, the people that matter in this case, and to say this is wild, that this is happening right now. The hearing lasted two weeks, eight hour days every day. The family showed up for this consistently, and I want you to think about this. They had to choose between standing up for their murdered grandparents and their income. Let's not forget that part. Let's not go loss over it. You cannot work while you're at a two week hearing about someone being released for viciously murdering your grandparents. And while they're there, they're hearing all about the things the killer had been through and how much his life had changed, all the while knowing that nothing has changed for the victims or their families.

1:08:19 Nothing. They're still grieving and they're still all these years later dealing with the horror of it all. And let it not be lost on you either that if the manipulation of that talk is not obvious and you're like, no, Kelly, I think you're just being mean, You're just looking too deeply into this. Well, if that is the case, then maybe science could assist people in understanding what society was dealing with here. And this all goes down to what's called the hair psychopathy test, okay, And this test was created to see if someone is a psychopath or not. And while this testing has undergone updates and there have been changes throughout the years, it remains still today the international standard for the diagnoses of psychopathy and adults as well as youth. Okay, I need you to know that it is the standard. And the test that I'm talking about is scored or scaled from a zero to a forty.

1:09:16 Anybody who scores above a thirty is considered a high score psychopath. Daniel's testing showed that he scored a thirty five point eight out of forty on the test when he was given it, which was the highest that particular doctor had ever seen in all of his hundreds of interviews of psychopaths. Their level of connie and manipulation, guys, it is so smooth and they are scarily good at it. And the main traits of someone who is a psychopath include being glib, which is someone who is easy going in their speech. They use their charm to deceive people.

1:10:00 They are often self grandiose. They talk about themselves a lot, and what all they have accomplished. I just told you what all he talked about in that Ted talk, and it all went back to him, it all did. He was able to, you know, get in tight with a racist and see the real him. He was a victim. He was sexually abused by people that there's no name of and he won't talk about it. He was always the victim, always the victim. Daniel Marsh is the antithesis of anything that this law was trying to give a second chance to, or do whatever changes to benefit somebody. And thankfully, after two weeks of testimony and discussion, that juvenile judge agreed. His final ruling was that Daniel should have been tried as an adult, and he decided with the stroke of a pen that all this that Daniel had done was total bullshit. He saw through it. Hopefully you do too, and he re en stated Daniel Marsh as an adult. By doing so, the case is what is called closed.

1:11:07 That means no other. Future bills or laws could possibly affect his case in disregard, So it should be over right. They had to continue to go through this, They had to go through more trials, more you know, more opportunities for this double killer. So it should be over right. Not even close, because after that happened, then Daniel got to start all of his appeals. So the victim's family in this case would suffer through three more years of additional appeals, all possible opportunities for overturning everything that they had fought against for so long. When I say victims first, this is the type of shit that I think about and that I revert back to because they are never given anything. It's the criminals that are given every damn opportunity. Finally, though, in twenty twenty one, the courts denied all appeals and Daniel Marsh was where he was going to be remaining for now, And that is until I looked up his current doc status, and that's when I found Department of Corrections. If you don't know, I looked up his DOC status just curious, and I found that he is going to be up for a parole consultation in December of twenty thirty one and is eligible for parole in twenty thirty six.

1:12:30 Will it ever be over for these victims? If you've listened this far, hopefully you're grasping what I'm trying to tell you, because the answer is no, it won't. It'll never end for these victims ever, And the misery doesn't even end there. Do you remember when I told you that the spotlight was originally put on mister Chip's grandson, Tony. Was that drawing they found in the home which ended up being completely unrelated to. What had happened. Well, Tony felt like he could never shake the looks from people or the scrutiny that he may have been their killer. It hurt him deeply. Even though his name was cleared, that stigma haunted him. He felt like he couldn't escape it, and three years after the murders had occurred, it was still very much in the public eye. It never seemed to go away. Tony was doing his best y'all.

1:13:24 He was working as a contractor for SpaceX and Tesla. His heart was with people and community. He volunteered for the US Army, He served in the California Conservation Corps. This guy was doing the best he could. But no matter how much good he did, and no matter how genuine he was, he could never shake that feeling of accusation. And the weight became too much for him to carry. When he couldn't take it anymore, and tragically, on October the sixteenth of twenty sixteen, Tony Northup committed suicide. Mister Chip's son, Robert, lost not only his dad his stepmother, but he also lost his son to this tragedy. I want to implore lawmakers to involve victims in the lawmaking process, especially when it involves sentencing changes for murderers. No victims were on that panel when that law was being drafted.

1:14:26 The implications will affect more than just the offender, and we can never lose sight of that. Dead does not mean irrelevant. When someone is dead and gone, it does not negate their purpose and their role in this crime. And let's be very very clear here, mister Chip is dead because of Daniel Marsh. Miss Claudia is dead because of. Daniel Marsh, and Tony Northip is dead because of Daniel Marsh. The wake of all of the death and destruction, it was that very person, Daniel Marsh, that was given every opportunity the system could justify, evaluations, interventions, careful assessment, all wrapped up in this language of hope, hope. He got every consideration the system could hand out, short of given him the damn keys to his cell programs, privileges, platforms.

1:15:28 I mean hell, they even gave him a stage, complete with a standing ovation. But what was missed, it seems, is that people were clapping for the performance, not the person, Because behind the polished words and all that ted talk charm was the same calculating double murderer. All he had done was craftfully convinced listeners that his false redemption was worth more than both of his victims' lives. What he basically said in essence was dead and I'm not. So let's give me a second opportunity. Anyone can memorize emotion filled lines, anyone can rehearse colorful talking points surrounded by rhetoric.

1:16:14 True redemption isn't something you perform your way into and no amount of clapping is ever gonna drown out what Daniel Marsh did to those two people, the audacity to stand there talking about tapping into humanity as if empathy was all that was needed. The thing is, sympathy and empathy they're not the same, guys. Sympathy you feel sorry for someone. Empathy is that you feel the pain, you've been there before. Well, I've never been there before, Daniel. I've never stabbed elderly people. I've never removed their organs, I've never bragged to people about it. So I'm sorry if your ted talk falls flat for me. I don't feel sorry for him, and I certainly don't have one ounce of.

1:17:04 Empathy for Daniel Marsh. People who learn the language of remorse without ever feeling it, they can sound exactly like what everyone wants to hear. But sounding human and being human are two very different things. Because you cannot rehearse your way into redemption, you don't get to narrate your own transformation, while the weight of your actions sits unchanged. Unearned and unanswered. Second chances absolutely mean something, but only when there's something real behind them, not in the words, not in the doe eyed posture and smile being delivered upon a stage, and not in that carefully delivered set of.

1:17:50 Lines about growth and humanity. Because when you strip all the performance away, what is left isn't misunderstood, it's unmss stakable. That is a psychopathic killer. So if tapping into my humanity is what Daniel wants, then that's exactly what he should get. I agree here. Everyone should have seen the crime scene photos of what he did before hearing him speak, you're right, let's tap right in, show the people what you did before you talk about humanity. They also should have listened to his smiling exhilaration as he talked about how murdering those two people was better than sex. They should have seen it, they should have heard it, and then they should have tapped into his brilliance. And I don't have time for hypocrites here either. So in that same spirit of humanity, the same people that were standing ovations to Daniel Marsh they better be willing to also stand and give ovations to Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgway, Eileen Woronos, and Dennis Rader, because all of those people scored lower on that Harror psychopathy test than Daniel marsh here was higher than all of those people.

1:19:11 It's easy to clap. In cheer for someone when you don't have the whole story. So Daniel, real quick, buddy, remind us real quick what it felt like to kill mister Chip and miss Claudia. I'm not gonna I felt. I mean it was care, happiness and adrenaline and dopamine, all of it rushing over me. But don't feel the throw the people at all. Don't feel Tapping into humanity implies that Daniel is only human and that he isn't worth throwing away. And look, I'd have to agree with that, because throwing him away would be the waste of a perfectly good trash back.

1:19:55 So instead of him preaching to us about tapping into humanity, we need to be tapping into his veins, doing humanity a favor and putting that animal down