May 5, 2026

Part 2 | Darkness Fell: The Double Murder of Chip and Claudia Northup

Part 2 | Darkness Fell: The Double Murder of Chip and Claudia Northup

Part 2 of a 2 Part Series: In the quiet college town of Davis, California, retired couple Chip and Claudia Northup were living out their golden years in peace — until the dead of night changed everything. On April 14, 2013, in the early morning hours,...

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Season 10
Part 2 of a 2 Part Series:
In the quiet college town of Davis, California, retired couple Chip and Claudia Northup were living out their golden years in peace — until the dead of night changed everything. On April 14, 2013, in the early morning hours, the couple lay sleeping in their own bed when an intruder slipped silently into their home. He stood over them in the darkness, watching them breathe, before unleashing a savage, relentless attack that left the bedroom soaked in blood. What followed was one of the most brutal and disturbing double murders the community had ever seen.

Timestamps
25:37 The Insanity Plea
27:40 Comparison to Other Cases
34:27 Family's Journey Through Grief
41:23 The Possibility of Release
45:03 TED Talk Opportunity
58:41 The Impact of a Troubled Past
1:10:36 The Judge's Decision
1:15:09 The Aftermath of the Case

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts.

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Some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended,

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then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all,

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kJ You're back with part two of this two part

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series that I am doing. So as you're listening right now,

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if you are like, oh wait a minute, this is

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a part two, yep, you need to go back listen

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to part one before we jump into today's episode. Now,

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before I get started, I do have a couple of

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shout outs that I'm going to do, and we are

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going to start in Houston, Texas, where miss Kelly Esparza lives.

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How are you doing over there, Kelly? How are things

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in Texas? I hope that it's wonderful. I will actually

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be in your neck of the woods in about two

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weeks because my niece is graduating and I'm going to

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watch that happen so I'll be near you. But I'm

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waving at you on the camera. Thank you so much

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for joining my crime family. And you are the difference,

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as I always say, and I look forward to speaking

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with you on our Patreon app. And then we're going

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to go to Jacksonville, Florida, where I've got Miss Helen.

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And I believe you would say calm or cold girl.

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You're gonna have to give me a pronunciation on that one,

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because I do not want to mess that one up.

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But Helen has joined our crime family, guys, and we

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are so happy to have her join our group. Thank

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you so much much, and I'm waving to you, miss Helen.

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And then last for today, but certainly not least, is

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mister Rick Phillips from Blossberg. What is this Pennsylvania?

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Okay? Well I again, mister Rick. Wow.

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I know I've spoken to you a couple of times.

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I think you're on my Facebook too, and you're a

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follower and we talk a few times. We've spoken a

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few times at least on there. So Rick, thank you

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from the bottom of my heart for joining. Your support

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means everything to me. It helps me to keep doing

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everything that I'm doing. And so y'all are today's special

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People VIP and those are your shout outs. I hope

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that I got your names right and talk to me.

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Chat to me if I did a mispronunciation, because I

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want to get that right. But we're gonna jump right

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on in to part two of this episode about mister

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Chip and Miss Claudia and.

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Where we left off last time.

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Quick recap is that the couple were stabbed and disemboweled.

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They were an elderly couple. They were at home asleep

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in their bed whenever all of this took place. Police

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were limited on the evidence that was on the scene,

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and they were focusing in on one of mister Chip's

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grandsons based on a drawing that they found that looked

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a lot like the crime scene. When a random nine

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to one one call came in, it changed the entire

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course of their investigation, and that call would lead to

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information that there were three male teen friends that were

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in a band.

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These guys' names were Kevin.

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Green Alva is how they referred to the other guy,

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and his name ended up being al Vero Garabay and

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then Daniel Marsh, so Kevin, Alva and Daniel were in

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this band. Alvaro was the best friend of Daniel Marsh,

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but he had decided to quit the band because he

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had recently gotten freaked out by Daniel and his increasingly

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odd behavior, including that Daniel told Alva that he had

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killed that elderly couple that had made the news, which

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was mister Chip and miss Claudia, and.

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So Alva got so upset by this he is the

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one who ended up calling nine to one one.

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He pointed the police in the direction of Daniel as

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the killer, and so he was also.

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Alva was also questioned by police.

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Now because of the detail that Alvaro knew about the

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murders those specifics, police at first thought he might be

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the killer, but when police brought in Daniel Marsh for questioning,

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he was more than comfortable admitting that he, although only

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fifteen years old, he had been looking forward to killing somebody,

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and the couple seemed to be the people that he chose.

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He had been fantasizing and dreaming of taking someone's life

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when he went out on the prow hunting one night.

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The open window on the front of mister Chip and

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Mimsus Claudia's home is what initially caught his attention, and

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that's why he chose that home completely at random. Now,

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he had no known connection to this couple other than

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his father living temporarily on the same street. But police

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would also find that he hadn't lived with his father

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for someone time, and by the way, Daniel's own juvenile

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behavior was the reason that he had not been living

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with his father. Now, despite his dad's please, Daniel was

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doing whatever he wanted to do in terms of like

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behavior and the way that he was living his life

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is that father had gotten completely irritated and outdimeeed that

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he kept coming home drunk.

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He would come home.

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High, and after being shuffled back and forth between his

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mother's house and his father's house, his father eventually just

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drew the line when he was fourteen years old and

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he just was done with him. He's like, you got

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to go. If you are not going to follow my rules,

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then you're out of the house. So adding fuel to

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that fire was that his mother, Daniel's mom seemed completely

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oblivious to his behavior, which was continuing underneath her roof.

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So now that even more information was coming to light

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as to Daniel not only acting out and being being ungovernable,

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it was more than just fantasizing. For example, he wasn't

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new to sneaking into houses. So when detectives were at

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first interviewing people and asking questions, that included his girlfriend

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at the time, and she told them a few things

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that had occurred before with her and Daniel, but also

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things that had occurred after the now known murders had

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taken place that just really had her uncomfortable. And one

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of those things was that their relationship had become more physical,

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and by physical, I mean sexually physical. And so she

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expanded on that and said that choking and kind of

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like hurting her was something that.

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Daniel really enjoyed doing.

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There was a cross in his mind where sex and

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excitement was mixed with violence, and he really liked that combat.

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So the other thing that she also told police was

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that Daniel had snuck into her home and he had

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come in through the doggie door, which is creepy enough.

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She actually ended up being on the phone with friend

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Alva Alvaro, and they were then both upset because by

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then he had confessed to both of them that he

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had committed these murders and I was crawling in through

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doggy doors and surprising her. And so they were discussing

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whether or not to call the police and what to do.

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And this all happened around that same time. So while

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Daniel's confession left it no mystery about the mechanics of

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stabbing this elderly couple to death, what remained difficult to

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reconcile here was his explanation. And I know right now

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you're going, well, there is no explanation, there's no answer

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to why someone would do this, and I'd have to

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agree with you.

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But Daniel did give an.

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A explanation of kind of what was going on, and

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he remained calm, almost clinical, but with intermittent giddiness and excitement.

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As he described with a detached level of thrill and curiosity,

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how he attacked, murdered, and then removed the organs of

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mister Chip and miss Claudia, and his recounting of these events.

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Picture this.

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His recounting of the events was done with eye contact

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as he spoke to the investigators.

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He was locked in. It wasn't like he dropped his head.

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Realizing, you know, damn, you know, I'm admitting to something

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that is beyond violent, is beyond common behavior. No eye contact,

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as he explained it, and he had this air of

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giddiness that he wanted to share what he had done.

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There was no empathy, there was no remorse, no emotion

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either in terms of fear of any kind of possible

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rejection by the investigators that what he was saying. It's

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like he didn't even think that they might not like

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what he was saying, that they might not be abhorred by,

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but the things that he was admitting to Instead, as

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he made eye contact and he spoke to these investigators,

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he did it with this feeling of near belief, almost

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that the investigators would understand what he said he was

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feeling and that they would join in on his thrill.

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As he told the story of what he had done.

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The things that he said were devoid of the reality

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that these were actual people, These were people that he

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was doing this too. His direct quote, he was excited.

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He was nervous, but excited and exhilarated about.

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What he was about to to do.

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So when I did episode one, I kind of gave

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you a walk through of how it was envisioned. The

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things that happened during these murders. While it was thought

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though that mister Chip would have been stabbed first, it

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was actually the opposite. Whenever the confession came around, he

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started with miss Claudia, and in his own words, he said,

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but she quote just wouldn't die. He said, it just

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very aloof you know, started stabbing her, but she just

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wouldn't die. So her screams and her pleads with to

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stop stop help that woke mister Chip up during the attack. Well,

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when it woke him up, he turned and he started

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stabbing mister Chip in the neck as you know, as

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well as the other stab wounds. And so that very

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quickly because of what he where. He cut him in

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the neck. That rendered him pretty quickly unable to effectively fight.

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And so he just kept stabbing them. And these are

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his words, messed around with their bodies, and that's why

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he eventually inserted things inside of them after they died.

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But the reason he says that he inserted those items

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was to fuck with the people who had to investigate it.

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He wanted to freak people out. He wanted it to

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blow their minds what he had done with these with

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these bodies. He was just very forthcoming with the fact

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that he had experimented on them. He said, yeah, I

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pulled fat from the woman's leg and from her abdomen.

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I cut into uh, I'll call him mister Chip. He

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didn't refer to him that way, but he cut into

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mister Chip's forehead. All of that done just out of curiosity.

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He just wanted to see what it looked like, what

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it was like, what it would feel like. His words,

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as if they were just generic bodies that were there

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simply to satisfy his gore obsession, his sick curiosity, and

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the fact that he enjoyed this is what.

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Is so damn evil. There is no other word. It's evil.

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It is demonic.

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At least when someone kills someone and it's out of anger.

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I'm not talking about this case, just in general. At least,

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when someone is extremely angry and they kill somebody, everyone

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who is assessing that instance on some small scale can

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identify with the feeling of anger.

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Okay, and I say that because we've all felt it before.

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We know how just unadulterated anger, how it makes you

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feel when someone has done you so wrong. Right, You

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know what anger feels like on a small scale. You

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understand what someone was feeling in that moment. But what

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separates us is our humanity, the recognition of the inherent

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value of life. That's the difference in those situations that

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even though you may despise somebody in any given moment,

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you're so anger you want to just rip their head off,

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the difference is that you recognize that that person's life

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is worth more than your anger towards them. And that's

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why we know that murder it's not even in the

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realm of reality for most people, because that's never going

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to be the answer, because life is precious, Even a

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life that you can't stand, to just put it blankly,

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even a life you cannot stand, is still more precious

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and more valuable than murder. But in this case, this

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wasn't rage driven. There's no anger in it towards these

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specific people. It was the fact that he found joy

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in watching other people suffer. Blood and fear were literally

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the things that he loved, and that's what made him excited.

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It is devoid of the general ways in which we

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as human beings govern ourselves in terms of reactions to.

232
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.720
Hurt, grief, struggle, and death.

233
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:17.120
This was more than cruel, and it was alien to

234
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:22.080
the laws of humanity. There is nothing in this that

235
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.480
anyone should ever be able to, even in a small

236
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:30.000
semblance of anything, relate to it or understand it. It

237
00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:35.879
goes beyond understanding. And while his confession, the complete confession,

238
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.879
it took one hundred and sixty five pages typed to

239
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.799
transcribe it all right, he was very clear on how

240
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.039
he felt about the murders. He never once said he

241
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.320
felt bad, He never once said that he regretted what

242
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.679
he had done. Instead, he described the murders of these

243
00:14:55.720 --> 00:15:00.120
two people as giving him the most enjoyable feeling he

244
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:06.600
had ever experienced, and he added that it was peak.

245
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.840
It was heightened to the.

246
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.840
Highest point when they were still conscious and when they

247
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.159
were resisting him, when they were fighting him, that's when

248
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.960
he hit peak enjoyment. He described it his words, not mine,

249
00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:27.720
as better than sex. And he was very clear that

250
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:32.799
the high he got from that experience lingered for weeks.

251
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.039
For weeks, he was on a high about it.

252
00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.039
He's thought about it every minute of every day, and

253
00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.360
it just kept him on a cloud. The only thing

254
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.279
that I think I've ever felt, that I can say

255
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.799
left me on a high for weeks was falling in

256
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:55.679
love you know, getting to hang out with my husband

257
00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:57.279
day in and day out, and the fact that it

258
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.440
was reciprocated. You know, the butterflies in your stomach that

259
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.240
you get when you fall in love and it lasts

260
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.679
and it continues to last. That's the only thing I

261
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.919
can think of that put me on a high for weeks,

262
00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.519
aside from giving birth to my children and looking at

263
00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.799
their faces every morning and bottle feeding. You know, I

264
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:21.120
don't understand this. And he elaborated how he loved the

265
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:26.080
feelings so much that he went out again looking for

266
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.919
a victim to kill. But when he did this, he

267
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.799
didn't bring a knife with him that time. He specifically

268
00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.639
brought a baseball bat with him. And the reason he

269
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.440
brought the baseball bat is because it was being very

270
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.000
a calculated decision on his part, because he didn't want

271
00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.200
whoever he killed next their death. He didn't want that

272
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:51.759
associated with the stabbing murders when he eventually found his

273
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.279
next victims, which thank god, he did not as far

274
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.720
as we know, because no other bodies were found before

275
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:02.039
he was arrested. I mean, when he went out that

276
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:06.599
second night hunting for victims, had he come across anyone,

277
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.759
there is no doubt they would be dead. There's proof

278
00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:12.920
in it already that he's willing to kill. So, as

279
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.559
the questioning of Daniel continued, the detective decided to ask

280
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.079
him just a very pointed question, very pointed detective.

281
00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:25.960
He said to Daniel, how would you kill me? He

282
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.880
just said it, how would you kill me?

283
00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:34.440
And without hesitation, without checking up, without even having to

284
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.960
rack his brain, he said, I would choke you with

285
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.599
your tie, I would bash your head into the mirror,

286
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.960
I would gouge your eyes out, and I would use

287
00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.440
the mirror glass to cut your throat. But then right

288
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:52.519
after that he followed up with, but it's nothing personal. Well,

289
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.200
I mean, of course it's not personal. You don't know him.

290
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.279
You're doing it for you the benefit and the fun

291
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.480
of what you get out of that. Of course personal,

292
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.039
because you're not you're not personifying the people you're.

293
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.119
Doing this to. They're objects to you.

294
00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.599
But he said it's nothing personal after telling him how

295
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:14.319
he wanted to kill him. So, when his friend Alvaro

296
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.160
expanded on what all he had been told about the

297
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.480
murders by Daniel, he was he was able to give

298
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.759
a timeline on this, and he said that he had

299
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.359
gone to Daniel's house on.

300
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.559
The Tuesday after the murders.

301
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:32.119
Part of this was because he had already been told

302
00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:33.920
Daniel kept trying to say he killed these people, but

303
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:34.920
he didn't really want to hear it.

304
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:35.839
He thought it was bullshit.

305
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.799
But once he started to believe him, he decided that

306
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:42.319
he wanted to go question him further because he was

307
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.400
starting to believe him now that he may have done this.

308
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.400
And so he goes over to Daniel's house.

309
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.079
It's the Tuesday after the murder, so, I mean, it's

310
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.599
just just what forty eight hours roughly after he's killed these.

311
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.079
People, and in the degree that he did.

312
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.960
And Daniel had described to him that the murders gave

313
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.559
him the best feeling of his life. He got really

314
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:05.160
really excited and animated when he was describing this to Alvaro.

315
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.240
He then ran over to his closet and started pulling

316
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.279
things out of the closet and he was showing him

317
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:15.079
things that he actually used in those murders. He pulled

318
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:20.680
out that the knife, the murder weapon, gloves, ski cat boots,

319
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.000
even the jacket that he wore whenever he killed mister

320
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.839
Chip and missus Claudia. So, based on that information, that

321
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:31.599
they gathered. As they realized Alvaro wasn't you know, the killer,

322
00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.559
and that he had these details because it was true

323
00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:36.799
what he had been told, they go and they search

324
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.200
his mother's home for the items, and they would get

325
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.079
the search warrant to do just that. Now, Alvaro, I

326
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.799
want to focus on this for a minute, because I

327
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.039
think sometimes as.

328
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.720
An adult, we look at things through the lens of

329
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.519
what should what should you do.

330
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.799
Based on the information and experience we have as adults.

331
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:01.160
But Alvaro being young, remember he was just young teenager himself,

332
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.720
he didn't quite know what to do with the information

333
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:10.119
that he had been given. He described it as being surreal,

334
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.559
and that's why he didn't go immediately to police. He

335
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:15.559
was kind of in a fog about, oh my god,

336
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.960
like this is real, this is not a joke.

337
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.599
So he did the best that he knew of what

338
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.279
to do. And this is what I mean.

339
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.880
He didn't just sit on his ass for a month

340
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.480
and not and not do anything or say anything. When

341
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.039
he realized that this was not a joke, he did

342
00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:40.079
go to his school and he decided to tell the school, hey,

343
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.880
y'all need to check Daniel Marsh. He's got a knife

344
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.559
on him. He knew that Daniel always cared a knife,

345
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.680
and that's why he went to the school and he

346
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:53.599
told them that because in his mind, Alva's mind, that

347
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.559
had been seen as a murder weapon, like a knife

348
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.200
had been used to murder two people. He needed to

349
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.680
tell the school because then he would number one be removed,

350
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.000
but number two at least there wouldn't be a knife.

351
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.079
Because he was getting scared that this was gonna happen

352
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:10.759
to maybe Daniel's girlfriend, maybe himself.

353
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.319
He didn't know, so.

354
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.880
He knew it would get him away, and he knew

355
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.160
that something would happen, and he was right because Daniel

356
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.599
was suspended from school whenever he was found to have

357
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.440
that knife on him. So Alvarro also went a step

358
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.160
further and he decided that he needed to contact Daniel's dad.

359
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.640
So he went and found Daniel's dad and he told him, look,

360
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.759
your son is claiming responsibility for this double murder that

361
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.279
just happened in town. And he was trying to say,

362
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.920
you know, help, like this is what happened, but Daniel's

363
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:52.079
dad didn't believe him. So you know, I'm not giving

364
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:54.319
grace here. I mean, I'm just thinking that. You know,

365
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:56.240
if someone came to you and said your kid killed

366
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.599
two people, would you believe it. I don't think that

367
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.920
his dad should be villainized on this. He just didn't

368
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:05.799
believe what was going on. So when Alvrou realized that

369
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:09.400
he was getting nowhere, basically with the people that he

370
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.599
saw as authority figures, i e. The school just suspended him.

371
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.359
The parent wasn't believing him whenever he was trying to say,

372
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.319
your son killed two people. That's when he went to

373
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:22.599
the next step where he decided to call the police.

374
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.000
He drove around until he could find a payphone to

375
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.880
place the anonymous nine one one tip, and then you

376
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:32.279
know how it went from there because they convinced him

377
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.279
to come in and talk. So when it said that

378
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.400
Alvrou didn't do anything and that he just sat on it,

379
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.519
that's not quite true. I think he did the best

380
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.720
with the tools that he had and with the experience

381
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:45.359
and information that he had. Before he actually called police,

382
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.720
he was trying to solve it, but he was afraid

383
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.720
of Daniel. So police, like I said, went and they

384
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.160
executed the search warrant at his parents' home, and just

385
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:01.319
as Alvro had claimed, they found the bloody kneife, the clothes,

386
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:06.440
and all of those other items in Daniel's closet or bedroom.

387
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:08.680
When Daniel was asked by the police, why did would

388
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.359
you keep the knife? Like, why would you keep the

389
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.920
murder weapon? That doesn't seem very smart, he said because

390
00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:18.079
it was a souvenir. He kept it because he wanted it.

391
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.359
He wanted to remember what that night and the excitement

392
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:30.359
that it brought him. This is just absolute proof evidence.

393
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.200
There's no doubt that Daniel enjoyed every second of what

394
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.440
he had done to those people, and he wanted to

395
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:40.240
commemorate it. After he did it, he said, it was

396
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.400
pure happiness. Adrenaline and dopamine was rushing through his veins.

397
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.400
And you remember how I told you I said that

398
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.079
the high lasted for weeks. Well, there's another thing that

399
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.880
adds to proof that that's true, because he wasn't necessarily

400
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:59.119
doing the best in school, but after the murders he

401
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:04.079
improved so much in school in those weeks that he

402
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.960
was named Student of the month after he had committed

403
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.680
the murders. Imagine, killing people is what makes you improve

404
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.039
in school? Tell me you're not unhinged. So detectives at

405
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.039
this point said without a doubt that this was a

406
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.920
serial killer in training. It was very clear that Daniel

407
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.319
didn't feel sympathy at.

408
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:26.920
All for people.

409
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.480
His direct quote, by the way, I do not feel

410
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.599
sympathy for other people at all. I do not feel

411
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.559
empathy for them either, talking about his victims. So, as

412
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.000
you can imagine, Daniel was arrested and he was charged

413
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:43.079
with the murders of Chip and Claudia Northulp. Now, this

414
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:48.440
should have been a very clear cut case, one where

415
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.880
the formalities of it all are going to have to

416
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.720
take some time.

417
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.400
We know that, right, the court system is slow and

418
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:55.000
all of that.

419
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.839
But in the end, there should have been just an

420
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.119
easy conviction, hook line and sinker the doors behind him.

421
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.759
Case closed. At least if this were a movie. Okay,

422
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.759
that is what would have happened, all wrapped up in

423
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.400
a powerful bow. You know of the death penalty and

424
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.079
never seeing Daniel marsh again Enscene right in the credits

425
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:16.680
role and you clap because the bad.

426
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:17.400
Guy's been handled.

427
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.519
But I have to remind you that this is real life,

428
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:27.039
and this case, this specific case, will now serve as

429
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:32.319
a prime example of how something so damn obvious can

430
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:39.160
completely and totally get derailed in an instant now to start,

431
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.079
because of the nature of the level of the depravity

432
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:49.000
of Daniel's crime, he was scheduled to be tried as

433
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:54.559
an adult in return for this realization that he was

434
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:55.920
not going to be tried as a juvenile, that he

435
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.640
was going to be tried as an adult. Once everything

436
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.079
was filed, and Daniel real okay, that is the case.

437
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.759
I am going to be tried as an adult. That's

438
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:08.119
whenever he decided to plead guilty by reason of insanity.

439
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.039
But do not for a second get caught up in

440
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.519
the guilty part. Okay, hold on a second, because to

441
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:19.640
claim guilty by reason of insanity, it's not just a

442
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.039
give me not everybody can just plead to this. It

443
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:24.319
used to be that way, but it's not anymore. There's

444
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.160
got to be an overall consensus found amongst the court

445
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:32.119
and you know, all of the players that the person

446
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:38.480
that's trying to plead insanity has clearly demonstrated that they

447
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:40.880
qualify for that plea.

448
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:42.759
There's like a qualification process.

449
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.960
So the defense has to show that at the time

450
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:50.640
of the crime, the defendant absolutely suffered from a severe

451
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:53.880
mental disease or some type of mental defect that prevented

452
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:58.160
them from understanding the nature of their actions or knowing

453
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:01.920
that their actions were wrong. So let me give you

454
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.880
an example. Most of us will already know Andrea Yates.

455
00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.759
That case, Andrea Yates drowned her five children. She admitted

456
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.960
she did it. It was very clear that she did it.

457
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.640
But she was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

458
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:20.119
I know there were two trials, but don't get caught

459
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.960
up in that. But she was found not guilty by

460
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.400
reason of insanity. And that's because the evidence was overwhelming

461
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:34.000
that she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and she believed,

462
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.240
she genuinely believed that she was saving her children from

463
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.440
damnation by removing them from the world by drowning them.

464
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.440
She was committed to a maximum security state mental hospital.

465
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:52.359
There's no comparison between the Andrea Yates case and this

466
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.559
one that I've just given you none. Also to that note,

467
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.319
the police weren't stupid, they were not dumb, and they

468
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.599
completely and totally anticipated that this claim would be made

469
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.079
after his arrest. So what they did was during their

470
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:13.119
interrogation they lay the foundation in their questioning of irrefutable

471
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:19.720
evidence that the charges that were filed against him would

472
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:22.359
in no way give him any room to be able

473
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:27.400
to claim any type of insanity plea. Also, whenever his

474
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:32.559
friend Kevin was questioned, Kevin even said Daniel had told

475
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.279
him that if he ever got caught for a murder,

476
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:39.519
he would claim insanity. So this was a pretty sweet move,

477
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.359
a pretty smart move on behalf of the investigators and

478
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.440
the detectives. And so how do they lay this foundation? Well,

479
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.519
first thing, insane and evil aren't the same thing. We

480
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:52.720
tend to put them together. You'd have to be insane

481
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.160
to be that evil, but they're not the same. Insane

482
00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:02.440
people are incapacitated by the inability to perceive reality. Like

483
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.079
Andrea Yates it just in her reality demons were after

484
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.799
her children and that's why she killed them. But evil

485
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.519
people that are not insane, just evil people. They cause

486
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:20.079
harm and are morally reprehensible because they want to. So

487
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:25.119
police asked Daniel questions during his interviews. Specifically, they said, hey,

488
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.559
have you ever heard voices or is there anything that

489
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.200
may alter your reality of why you know, do you

490
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:35.359
hear voices? Have you been commanded by a spirit or

491
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.599
anything like that to do this? And he said no,

492
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.480
absolutely not. I'm not crazy. Nope, nope, did it because

493
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.200
I wanted to. They even questioned his girlfriend at the time,

494
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:47.839
did Daniel ever tell you at any point in time

495
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.880
that he ever heard voices or that, you know, say

496
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.079
anything that made him seem like he was detached from reality?

497
00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.839
She said never, not once. Well, then daniel defense team

498
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:06.400
hired a psychologist in preparation for trial to kind of

499
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.559
lay this foundation of oh, he's insane, but in a

500
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:14.519
wild turn of events, the psychologist agreed with the prosecution.

501
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.480
The psychologist was like, no, this dude's completely sane. He's evil,

502
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.960
but he's completely sane. Daniel knew his actions were wrong,

503
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:25.759
and he's very clear that he enjoyed what he did.

504
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:32.880
He even told his girlfriend's mother, okay, check this out.

505
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.000
Before Daniel was arrested, but after he had killed the couple,

506
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.680
he was in the kitchen talking to his girlfriend and

507
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:44.240
his girlfriend's mother and he asked this mother, hey, have

508
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.799
you heard about that double murder in town that took place?

509
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:50.359
And the mom just shook her head and was like, no,

510
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:53.000
I haven't heard about that. And he said something in

511
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.920
response along the lines of only a sick person would

512
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:56.240
do that.

513
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:56.960
Huh.

514
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.119
And then he looked up and he immediately made eye

515
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.480
contact with his girlfriend while he was smirking, and so

516
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.759
she became extremely uncomfortable by that. Only a crazy person

517
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:07.960
would do that, right, And he's like smirking looking at

518
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.480
his girlfriend like they're in some type of camaraderie about

519
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.559
how I don't know how awesome it is. He loved

520
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.519
the discomfort that he could make others feel. When Daniel

521
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.799
met with that psychologist for the very first evaluation, Daniel

522
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:27.000
even threatened to kill the psychologist very clearly said ah,

523
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.759
I'd kill you too. So the psychologist definitely felt that

524
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.799
Daniel did have some type of mental illness about him,

525
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.319
but he was very clear that this kid's not insane.

526
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.440
He is very with it. He's just evil.

527
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.759
So the trial would move forward and the defense would

528
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:51.359
decide that they were going to focus on SSRIs or

529
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.680
zoloft as the reason or the or the fact that

530
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.160
Daniel had been taking this and they're going to say

531
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.240
that is what caused Daniel to have this psychotic break

532
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:03.920
and do what he did. Now, do you want to

533
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:07.440
tell you this? The FDA has warned that zole off

534
00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:13.039
or search alean it can cause increased agitation, hostility, aggression

535
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:19.039
in people. But there is never, ever, anywhere a documented

536
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:25.240
direct link between taking an antidepressant and murder, maybe suicide,

537
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.119
self harm, but not murder. So while the defense clung

538
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:33.359
to the theory that, oh, no, you know, this is

539
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.279
a medically induced issue, blah blah blah blah blah, there

540
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.279
was a huge hole in their claim that they kind

541
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:42.720
of ignored, and it was the fact that Daniel had

542
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:47.880
been killing animals just for fun before he ever started

543
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:51.880
the zoloft. It's all, it's a well known fact by

544
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:55.359
people that serial killers. That's kind of a red flag.

545
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:57.799
They enjoy killing animals. Remember you liked to kill that

546
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.480
cat in episode one. He did it for fun. He

547
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.000
liked to watch the life you know, fade from that

548
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:07.200
cat's eyes. So if he was willing to kill before

549
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.079
for fun, he also had been telling people about his

550
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.720
homicidal fantasies before the medication started as well, So he

551
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.039
was killing for fun and telling people he wanted to

552
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.519
kill people all before he ever started taking the zoloft.

553
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.000
Common sense tells you that that was not the cause

554
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.000
of his behavior. In my humble opinion, there should have

555
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:36.279
been less time defending or defining zoloft and its unconfirmed

556
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.559
side effects, and there should have been more time in

557
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:42.720
courts spent defining evil, because you would have been way

558
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:46.880
more convincing with that one. So on September the twenty

559
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.880
sixth of twenty fourteen, the state would rest its case

560
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.799
and it would be sent off to the jury for deliberation,

561
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:55.839
and there would only be two hours of deliberation before

562
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:58.759
the jury came back with a verdict of guilty a

563
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.720
first degree murder. The jury also found Daniel Marsh to

564
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:06.680
be completely sane and he was sentenced to fifty.

565
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.519
Two years to life.

566
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.760
Mister Chip and Miss Claudia's family obviously was happy with this,

567
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.119
a huge sigh of relief.

568
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.039
There was finally.

569
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:21.639
A somewhat of closure is not the right word, but

570
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:26.199
there was some sort of solution to this destructive, very

571
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:28.760
destructive chapter in their lives. They felt like it was

572
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.840
closing and now they could maybe open a new chapter

573
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.760
moving forward, focusing on the memories of their beloved Chip

574
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.880
and Granza. But that sigh of relief would be very

575
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:45.239
short lived. I know that people have been listening to

576
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.039
my show for a while. Know that when I say

577
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:53.119
my motto of victims first. I mean that the victims

578
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:58.159
should always be put first. But the following chain of

579
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.679
events that I'm about to give you are going to

580
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.079
be a prime example of why I feel so strongly

581
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:07.360
to vocalize the victim's first motto, because I could have

582
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:09.639
ended this episode here. I've been like, Yay, he went

583
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:13.960
to prison, go justice, But that would be so unfair

584
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:18.599
to the victims' families. It would be beyond unfair. This

585
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:23.079
is not, I repeat, this is not a politics podcast.

586
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.000
You do you in regard to politics, Live your life, America,

587
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:33.199
But this is a true crime podcast with real victims,

588
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.639
and so I'm going to give you everything in that regard,

589
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:43.480
especially when laws effect the victims after a ginormous tragedy.

590
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.239
And I hope that you will listen to what I'm

591
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:51.199
about to tell you and weigh it carefully. Daniel Marsh

592
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:53.920
was convicted, he was sentenced, He was sent off to

593
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:57.239
prison to go spend a massive amount of time behind bars.

594
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:01.880
Wonderful that alone, that's small bit was enough to at

595
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.280
least help mister Chip and Miss Claudia's family sleep soundly

596
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:05.679
at night.

597
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.800
That this guy was behind bars and he couldn't hurt anybody.

598
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.079
Else, But they would only get that sound sleep for

599
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:18.320
roughly six hundred days before politics would start politicking.

600
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.480
And what do I mean by that? Strap in for

601
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:22.880
this one.

602
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:28.440
In the two years after Daniel Marsh heard those bars

603
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:33.159
slam shut behind him, never free to murder innocent people

604
00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:38.000
ever again, a lawmaker in the state of California decided

605
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.800
that he wanted a change in terms of enhancing public safety.

606
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:45.960
So what do you think I mean when I say

607
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:50.480
let's make a change to enhance public safety, Because to me,

608
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:54.599
that means being even more steel fisted in the face

609
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:57.440
of offenders, especially violent offenders.

610
00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:59.440
Like Daniel Marsh.

611
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:04.280
Well, a proposition was proposed under the thought process that

612
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.880
rehabilitation of offenders would reduce recidivism, i e. People won't

613
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.760
go back to prison if we rehabilitate them. Well, no shit, Sherlock, right,

614
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.880
we all think that off the cuff, this sounds great,

615
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.280
But this proposition would be one that would actually directly

616
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.639
affect Daniel marsh but for the better, hear me out,

617
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.280
for the better, even though he was one of the

618
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:35.440
most violent offenders in the prison. This was written in

619
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:40.159
a way that it would benefit Daniel Marsh. And this

620
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.360
is where an ounce of voter research would have been

621
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:47.559
worth its weight in gold. And if you truly care

622
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.840
about victims like I do, then this will matter to you.

623
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:56.079
Because in California, Proposition fifty seven was introduced to the

624
00:37:56.119 --> 00:38:00.440
public and overwhelmingly this was approved by voters in the

625
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:07.800
November twenty sixteen election. The changes approved were to expand

626
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:14.239
nonviolent offender parole consideration. So basically, you know, if you

627
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:18.039
are nonviolent, maybe we can rehabilitate, get him back out

628
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.639
and let him make a positive change, YadA, YadA, YadA.

629
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:25.000
But there were other aspects to this that people may

630
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:29.599
not have either realized or understood, because this proposition also

631
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:35.679
changed the rules and the regulations of juvenile offenders. So

632
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:39.719
basically stated, this proposition that was passed made it to

633
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:44.679
where Daniel's conviction solely because of his juvenile age at

634
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:48.360
the time he was convicted. Well, it meant that his

635
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:51.440
case was now going to be remanded back down to

636
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:59.000
a juvenile judge for consideration of sentencing reduction. That is

637
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.920
huge sentencing reduction. He's only been in prison two years

638
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:11.079
by this point. Why Well, because this proposition was basically

639
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:16.199
about second chances. Before the DA made the decision of

640
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:21.000
whether to try a team as an adult. Okay, they

641
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:26.159
make this decision weighed on how sophisticated a crime was,

642
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.079
how heinous a crime was. All of that is taken

643
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:32.079
into account when they decide to charge someone as an adult.

644
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.199
Daniels was obviously both heinous by his own descriptions and

645
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.960
his own statements, and it was sophisticated because he explained

646
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.360
very clearly that he had planned it, he prepped it,

647
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:47.280
and that he wanted to avoid detection. The heinousness. He

648
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:51.599
was joyous as he stabbed missus Claudia. He said she

649
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.719
screamed out in pain, she begged for him to stop.

650
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.079
The sheer amount of stabs and the exploratory cuttings of

651
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.679
his victims. He even said that he punched mister Chip

652
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:05.239
in the face. He beat that man after he was

653
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:11.000
already dead. He then mutilated their bodies until direct quote

654
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:16.239
from Daniel Marsh, they shit themselves end quote. If that

655
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.840
is not heinous, what qualifies? And then in terms of sophistication,

656
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.199
he did things like he stole the mask from a store,

657
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:27.480
the one that he was gonna wear to commit the murders.

658
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:28.920
He did that ahead of time.

659
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.079
He sharpened the knife that he used ahead of time.

660
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:36.320
I believe it was his mother's hunting knife he had

661
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.400
taken to do this. He sharpened it so it would

662
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.559
be sharp, sharp, sharp, and he would cut like a

663
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:44.440
hot knife through butter. He wore gloves. He put the

664
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:47.599
duct tape on the bottom of his shoes to avoid detection.

665
00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:54.639
If that is not sophisticated, then nothing is okay. But now,

666
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:59.679
because of this new proposition, the juvenile judge is the

667
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:03.920
person who now held the whole decision making process of

668
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.760
what to do with him just because of his age.

669
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:09.360
Fuck all the shit I just told you that he did.

670
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.599
That's irrelevant. Now we're just gonna remand it back down

671
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:15.079
to a juvenile court judge and they get to make

672
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:18.440
all of the decisions. So what this now meant was

673
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.480
that Daniel had the possibility of being released at the

674
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.960
age of twenty five, and it all was in the

675
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:31.119
sole decision of this one judge. When the family of

676
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:35.599
Miss Claudia and mister Chip got that phone call, Daniel

677
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.639
was only twenty one. He was already actually twenty one

678
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:40.000
is the way I should say that he.

679
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:40.760
Was twenty one.

680
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:43.920
He might get out at twenty five years old, for

681
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:49.440
what he had done. Upon his release. Also, they were

682
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:56.719
informed that he would be released completely, no parole, no supervision, nothing,

683
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:01.880
just free to go do what he wanted and live

684
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:07.079
his life. The family could not catch their breath while

685
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:11.400
they were panicking this situation that they thought was now

686
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.440
way behind them. Daniel was being advised in the prison

687
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:16.679
that hey, Bud, you might be getting out shortly.

688
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.079
He would have just this freedom come, I mean.

689
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.679
The elatement, the joy, right, Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna

690
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:26.920
get out. But first he had to go what was

691
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:31.679
to what was called a fitness hearing, okay, and what happened,

692
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:33.960
what had to happen at this fitness hearing is he

693
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:37.800
had to explain to the court or to the judge

694
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.119
how he had been rehabilitated, and he had to show

695
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:46.079
that he had good behavior and that he was just

696
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.719
you know, the guy for this, uh, this bill to benefit.

697
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.440
So here's the kicker. Okay.

698
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:57.159
In the meantime, while all of this is happening, the

699
00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:59.880
family is freaking out. Daniel marsh is on cloud n I.

700
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.239
There was a woman named Maryette Formo, and she was

701
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:10.760
now embarking on a new adventure in her life. She

702
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:16.000
had created a nonprofit, and she called it Brilliance Inside.

703
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:20.320
So her goal of her new venture was to tap

704
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:25.159
into the unique inherent brilliance that.

705
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.000
People have, and they use their.

706
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:34.480
Brilliance that's inherently within them to engage in a true

707
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:41.880
metamorphosis of their potential and solve the world's problems. All right,

708
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.039
in plain terms, because that's super That sounds like pillow

709
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.679
fluff to me in plain terms. In October of twenty seventeen,

710
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.800
she created a nonprofit that she believed would stop violence

711
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:58.840
and transform prisons into houses of peaceful people. So what

712
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:03.079
she did was she invited inmates from the prison to.

713
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:04.719
Give TED talks.

714
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.079
I hold a lot of value in TED talks, by

715
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.159
the way, I'm a fan of Ted talks. But hang

716
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:13.440
with me here. She invited inmates to give TED talks

717
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:18.119
that focus on their brilliance rather than focus on what

718
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:19.920
they had done to land their asses in prison.

719
00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:24.199
Let's not talk about what they did. Let's focus on

720
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:28.519
their brilliance. These are all brilliant people behind bars, and

721
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.760
we need to look at that, y'all.

722
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:32.760
I'm gonna be frank here.

723
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:35.719
I've never done acid and I've never smoked meth, But

724
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.280
just saying the bullshit that just came out of my mouth.

725
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.199
That's the only way that I think that I may

726
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:43.239
ever know what that may feel like to just frick

727
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.639
and do acid. I cannot even believe I have just

728
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.920
said what I have said and someone actually believes that. Okay,

729
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:54.000
but either way, guess who signed up and was accepted

730
00:44:54.280 --> 00:45:01.599
to give a fucking ted talk. You guessed it, Daniel Marsh.

731
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.000
Now I need to give you a little bit of insight.

732
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:08.760
Maybe not all of you.

733
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:12.679
I do need to give the people who ride unicorns

734
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:14.480
and throw glitter in their lives. I do need to

735
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.639
give a little insight to those people. Okay, Everything that

736
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:21.880
an inmate does has an angle. I'm telling you everything

737
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.880
they do has an angle. You can hate me for

738
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.199
telling the truth, or you can love me for sharing it,

739
00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:27.559
but it is what it is.

740
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:32.000
Exhibit A. Just fore you, Daniel Marsh.

741
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:36.159
In those years that he was behind bars, he refused

742
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:41.400
to participate in any rehabilitative programs while he was incarcerated

743
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:47.039
until he was advised that he may potentially be released

744
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:50.239
by a juvenile court judge should he be able to

745
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:54.840
prove how changed he is. I e that proposition fifty seven.

746
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:59.960
I've been talking about all of a sudden, now Daniel

747
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.000
becomes a man of peace, a man of change, and

748
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:06.360
a guy who wants to give.

749
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:10.000
A ted talk about all of it, which he is

750
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:13.920
granted the opportunity to do. Incredibly.

751
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:17.519
Now, some people are gonna jump on me right here

752
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.920
and say, well, well, yeah, you know, he was able

753
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:22.639
to give the Ted talk, but there were rules to this.

754
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.360
He had to qualify. Not every inmate qualified for this.

755
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:27.280
And you're not talking about that. No, no, no, no,

756
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:31.119
I'm gonna address that. You're right, You're absolutely right. Certain

757
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:35.960
inmates had to qualify for this opportunity. They had to

758
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:39.280
have good behavior, and they want to make a change.

759
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:40.039
You're damn right.

760
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.760
Okay, Well, guess what, guys, Everything in life is relative.

761
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:48.440
When when someone is waiting in jail, Okay, a lot

762
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.119
of things happen, and I want to open your eyes

763
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:52.800
to one of them. Number one, When Daniel was just

764
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.559
in jail before conviction, before he went to prison, When

765
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:58.079
he was in jail, he got his ass beat the

766
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.239
fuck up by other end mates when they found out

767
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.400
who he was and what he had done to those

768
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:08.360
elderly people. Guess what when you become a target in

769
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:12.039
jail or in prison, just like Daniel marsh was targeted.

770
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:16.559
That's when they put you into ad SEG administrative segregation. Basically,

771
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:20.800
you're locked up for your own protection because someone's gonna

772
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:21.480
kill you.

773
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.360
Right. Well, guess what.

774
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.280
When you are locked up, you don't have access to

775
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:33.840
a lot of things. Now I don't have any access

776
00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:37.119
to the records of his exact locations within the prison

777
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.280
or his housing, but this much I do know when

778
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:43.239
you are locked up. When you are locked up and

779
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.400
you don't have freedom to roam and to do and

780
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:50.480
to fratenize, it's really hard to get in trouble, isn't it.

781
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:53.239
It's really hard to get in trouble when you are

782
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:57.880
locked up. You're limited, You're restricted. Like think for just

783
00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:03.400
a moment. But either the double murderer who laughed at

784
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:06.000
what he did and said that it felt better than sex,

785
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.119
who was very clear that he had no empathy, no remorse,

786
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:13.639
and refused to participate in any rehabilitation whatsoever until freedom

787
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:16.039
started ringing. He was now going to give a TED

788
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:21.199
talk on stage in front of thousands of viewers, if

789
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:24.960
not more. This is real life here, what I'm telling you.

790
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:27.440
This is not a movie.

791
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:29.840
So imagine you are the family of mister Chip and

792
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:32.679
misus Claudia. You turn on the fucking TV or you're

793
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:36.239
watching the computer wherever you are, and you see the murderer,

794
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:42.719
the very person who disimboweled your grandparents, cut them up,

795
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:46.639
explored in their bodies, ran around bragging about it, and

796
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:49.400
wanted to do it again. You see that very person

797
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:53.159
now standing on a stage talking to others about how

798
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.320
brilliant he is and how he needs everyone to embrace

799
00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.039
their humanity.

800
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:04.400
How would you feel about that? What would you do?

801
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:06.679
And listen.

802
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.599
I'm not gonna play a word of him saying any

803
00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:12.880
part of his ted talk.

804
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.079
I will not do that. I'm not even gonna give

805
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:15.840
him the platform.

806
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:17.800
But what I will do is tell you that I

807
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.480
got the transcript, okay, of everything that was said. I

808
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.280
got the full frickin' transcript about what was said, and

809
00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:31.679
he titled his talk Embracing our Humanity. And I'm gonna

810
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:34.599
give you some excerpts from it, and I'm gonna give

811
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.320
you some pointers that I would like you to ponder

812
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:38.079
from this.

813
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:40.519
Please listen to this.

814
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:46.320
So he gets up and he starts out, I remember

815
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:48.639
standing in the doorway of our home with my mother

816
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:51.840
and father on either side of me. They each had

817
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.440
me by one of my arms and pulling me back

818
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.599
and forth, Dad pulling me into the house, Mom pulling

819
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.360
me back out. They had just had another huge fight,

820
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.199
and Mom once again claimed that she was leaving. She

821
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:05.800
already had some suitcases and my sister in the car.

822
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:09.320
All she needed now was me. But of course Dad

823
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:12.440
wasn't having that. So I stood there between them, crying

824
00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.559
uncontrollably as they screamed at each other and yanked me

825
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:18.159
back and forth in and out of the house. Eventually,

826
00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:20.519
my mom would get her way and I left with her,

827
00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:22.480
but at the end of the day, we'd all be

828
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:26.719
back back at home underneath the same roof, pretending that

829
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:29.679
nothing ever happened. Now.

830
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:32.639
What he's wanting right now is for you to feel

831
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:35.559
sorry for him. You do hear that, right?

832
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:38.519
All I heard him say is that I am a

833
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:41.960
child victim, one who lived in a two parent household

834
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.039
with two parents who loved me, and they both wanted

835
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:47.440
me in their lives. That's what I heard. But he

836
00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:49.719
obviously is wanting you to feel sorry for him.

837
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:51.639
He goes on.

838
00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:53.840
The home environment that I grew up in was both

839
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.239
lonely and hostile. For the vast majority of my childhood,

840
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:03.679
I felt alienated, like I was hated yet completely irrelevant. Okay,

841
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:08.039
so again he's a victim. I felt much more like

842
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.119
an object than a person.

843
00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:10.679
Hmm.

844
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:13.159
Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it.

845
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.880
The indifference with which my parents treated me made me

846
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:21.400
feel as though I had no connection to humanity. That

847
00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:23.920
is in vast contradiction to the very first thing that

848
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:26.559
he just said. Doesn't sound like they're indifferent. It sounds

849
00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:28.800
like they both wanted him, and they were fighting each

850
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:34.039
other and throughout my entire childhood. In fact, up until

851
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.320
two months ago, I had harbored a dark secret that

852
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:41.960
I never told anyone in my entire life. He's never

853
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.880
spoken of it, not one time, guys, not once. When

854
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.199
he was a child, he was sexually abused multiple times

855
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:55.519
by two different people, both of whom he loved and

856
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:59.639
he trusted. Growing up, he felt like there wasn't a

857
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:01.239
soul in the world that he could tell.

858
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:03.000
He was the son.

859
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.400
And he says, I was smart, and I was expected

860
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:10.000
to be strong and tough and okay, and never needed

861
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:11.599
help from anyone.

862
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:13.719
So what just happened there?

863
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:15.719
If I'm going to break this down real quick, is

864
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:19.480
that he's trying to give off this beautifully broken vibe. Again,

865
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:23.920
he's a victim. But I took issue with a lot

866
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:27.800
of this. Number one, Like I told you, he never ever, ever,

867
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:31.320
in the history of ever mentioned that he was sexually abused.

868
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.199
Ever, it is also very interesting to me that we

869
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:37.360
can't prove this in any way, shape or form.

870
00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:40.480
It's also very important to point out to you when

871
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:44.199
he was questioned about that, he refused to expand on it,

872
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:46.639
and he refused to give names.

873
00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:47.360
Hmm.

874
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:50.920
Seems like if you are trying to rehabilitate and you're

875
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:52.880
trying to get your truth out there, you would give

876
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.639
the damn truth because you might want to save other

877
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:57.079
people or there might be other victims. But yet you

878
00:52:57.159 --> 00:52:59.639
won't say anything about it and you won't give names.

879
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:04.280
And he also doesn't mention in this paragraph that he

880
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:08.039
was a bisexual. Okay, and we know this, and there's

881
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:09.800
a reason I'm telling you this. I'm not doubting him

882
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:11.880
for being bisexual. I'm getting to a point. Just give

883
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:16.800
me time, okay, But Daniel's bisexual. He experimented sexually with

884
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.320
both of his male friends that were in that band.

885
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.039
Now I'm gonna say allegedly, because eventually one of them

886
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:26.559
would deny that, the.

887
00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:33.400
Kevin Green would would end up denying that. Okay, but he's.

888
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:36.559
Saying that he was sexually abused and blah blah blah

889
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.800
blah blah. Now I want you to hang on to

890
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.800
that for a second. Don't let that thought go. I'm

891
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:45.360
gonna get back to it, he goes on. But I

892
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:51.400
wasn't okay. I felt alone, alone and ashamed and disgusting, confused, weak, hurt, scared,

893
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:53.960
and I had no one, no one to confide in,

894
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:56.559
to cry or to hold me, or to tell me

895
00:53:56.599 --> 00:53:58.119
that it was going to be okay and that it

896
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.800
wasn't my fault, no one, And so I stuffed the

897
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:05.480
secret down, deep deep down, and tried to pretend as

898
00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:09.000
though it never happened. There it festered for years, and

899
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:12.280
I would carry those feelings with me every single day.

900
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.039
So what seems to be happening here is he's again

901
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:16.760
telling you how much of a victim he is. He's

902
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:22.920
never spoken about anything horrible that he's done, and he's.

903
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.440
Inlaying that not his fault.

904
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:29.079
Thought process into this, he says, as time went on,

905
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:32.400
it seemed like every person I encountered in the world

906
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:35.599
used and took advantage of me. Again, he's a victim

907
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:39.760
by everyone he ever encountered. Ever, they took his kindness

908
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.000
for weakness and discarded me like a piece of trash.

909
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:44.960
Well, I don't know.

910
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:47.599
What kindness he's referring to, because if everyone he ever

911
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:49.920
came in contact with did that to him, why were

912
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.199
all of his friends saying they were deathly afraid of him?

913
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:53.679
Where was the kindness?

914
00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:53.920
Then?

915
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:55.920
Where was it.

916
00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.199
Because people were freaked out by him before he was

917
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:02.199
killing people? I was bullied in school as well as

918
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:06.960
at home, and in the process I became extremely introverted. Okay, Well,

919
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.079
if he was bullied at home, he just said that

920
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:11.519
his parents treated him with complete indifference and they didn't

921
00:55:11.559 --> 00:55:13.519
really have any type of connection with him.

922
00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:15.320
So when were they bullying him?

923
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:20.840
And also, since he became extremely introverted, is that except

924
00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:22.920
for all the rough, choking sex that he did with

925
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:26.320
his high school girlfriend and all the drugs he was

926
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:28.719
using with his friends, and all the gore porn that

927
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:30.480
he loved to look up and watch with his friends,

928
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:32.199
was that part of the being introverted?

929
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.760
Is that? Where that was? Because I don't know. The

930
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:36.960
only person he says.

931
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:38.800
That I would come to think genuinely cared about me

932
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:41.480
was a man named Boris. Boris worked with my mother,

933
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:44.559
and over time he became a mentor to me, a

934
00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:49.199
big brother, even a father figure. Well, even in that

935
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:53.599
point right there, he's implying that he needed a father figure,

936
00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:56.320
when in reality, what we know is that his dad

937
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:59.119
wanted to be his father. His dad tried to love him,

938
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:02.000
tried to teach him the ways, but his own misbehavior

939
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.079
had him kicked out of his father's house because he

940
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:07.119
refused to follow the rules. You didn't need a father figure.

941
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:10.360
You refused to listen to your father. You are not

942
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:14.119
a victim there. That was your own choice. He would

943
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:16.519
spend time with me and take me to football games.

944
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:19.199
The connection that I developed with him made the pain

945
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:22.159
that I was feeling bearable. When I was twelve years old,

946
00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:26.599
my mother fell ill. She was diagnosed, and he goes

947
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:30.559
on and he lists her diagnoses, but basically neurological disorders

948
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:34.119
that caused debilitating pain. For a long time she was bedridden,

949
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:37.000
and because there was nobody else around, me and my

950
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.760
sister were the ones that had to take care of her. Wow,

951
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:44.000
Now all of a sudden, he's a hero. He's made

952
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:46.119
himself a hero in this. He had to take care

953
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:48.800
of his mother, feed her, help her in and out

954
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.599
of the bathroom, hold her while she had seizures, and

955
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:54.920
while she cried. It tore me apart to watch her

956
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:57.440
fade away like that. And in a way it hurt

957
00:56:57.480 --> 00:56:59.800
me to have to comfort her in a way that

958
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:03.719
I had so desperately wanted her to comfort me as

959
00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:06.920
a child. Now I take issue with that because again

960
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:09.039
I've done an ounce of research. So he says he

961
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:11.280
wanted to be comforted as a child. His mother never

962
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:13.400
paid attention to him, other when she was fighting to

963
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:16.519
have him in her life with her father and was

964
00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:19.280
you know, had her living under her roof. But what

965
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:22.119
he doesn't mention is that he had been in a

966
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:24.320
lot of therapy that the school thought that he needed

967
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:25.800
to be in, that everyone and their mama felt like

968
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:27.440
he needed to be in because he was acting like

969
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:31.159
a psychopath. And whenever he decided he didn't want to

970
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:33.440
go do that. His mother, the one you know that

971
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:36.239
doesn't pay attention to him, never helps him, never does anything.

972
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.760
She was documented as making excuses for him that got

973
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:42.360
him out of therapy so he wouldn't have to suffer

974
00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:46.079
through it. Is that the mother that never paid attention

975
00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:47.320
to you? Or is that the mother that seemed to

976
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.639
be very permissive and help you do those things?

977
00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:52.320
I don't know, you can decide.

978
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:54.360
In the middle of all of this, I was at

979
00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:56.639
my sister's boyfriend's house when I got a phone call

980
00:57:56.679 --> 00:57:59.199
from my mom. She was crying hysterically and kept trying

981
00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:02.000
to say something that I couldn't understand. I asked, again, Mom,

982
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.760
what's wrong, what's going on? And what she said shattered

983
00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:09.239
his reality. So his mom does call him and talk

984
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.280
to him, okay, but she said Boris is dead. Over

985
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:14.960
the next couple of days, I'd find myself or I'd

986
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.000
come to find out that Boris had taken his own life.

987
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:20.039
The person that I respected the most, my friend, my brother,

988
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:25.119
my loving parental figure, had taken himself away from me.

989
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:29.400
So it's all very egocentric there. I want to point

990
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:31.079
that out. Not that, oh my god, he took his

991
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:33.199
own life, Oh my god, he lost his life. It's that, No,

992
00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:34.440
he took himself away from me.

993
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:36.519
He was gone.

994
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.599
My connection to humanity was severed. I fell into a

995
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:42.079
deep depression even deeper than the one I was already in.

996
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:45.440
I stole pills from my mom. Over the course of

997
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.079
a month, he says, he tried to overdose.

998
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:48.880
He didn't. He failed.

999
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:50.480
At the overdose, he woke up in a pile of

1000
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:55.760
his own vomit. And then at that time, he said

1001
00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:58.920
that his hurt started turning into anger, and he just

1002
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:03.000
felt an unconstray rollable rage that grew stronger with each

1003
00:59:03.079 --> 00:59:07.760
passing day. So again, feel sorry for him. Because he

1004
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:12.400
tried to overdose. He says he hated people who had

1005
00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:15.760
hurt him. The hate continued to grow. He hated all

1006
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:19.639
of humanity. Deep down though, he just hated himself, and

1007
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:21.679
he just wanted to hurt the world that had hurt

1008
00:59:21.719 --> 00:59:24.159
him so bad. When nobody cares about you and the

1009
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:29.639
people who are supposed to care deliberately hurt you, it's

1010
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.679
hard to care about others. But I'm trying to figure

1011
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:37.199
out who deliberately hurt him. Who deliberately hurt him, His

1012
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:40.599
friends that tried to be good to him until he

1013
00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:43.079
started acting like crazy, His dad that tried to love him,

1014
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.079
even move closer to his ex wife so that he

1015
00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:46.920
could be in his son's life. And his son refused

1016
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:51.559
to follow the rules, his mother, who did everything that

1017
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:53.840
enabled him and loved him.

1018
00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:54.840
Who hurt him?

1019
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:57.840
Because if he's referring to the abusers that supposedly sexually

1020
00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:00.639
abused him, there's no name, there's no evidence, and he

1021
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:01.639
won't say who it was.

1022
01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:04.239
So who who hurt you?

1023
01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:07.119
And then he does say, I did horrible things to

1024
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.199
people who didn't deserve it. In the end, I became

1025
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:11.599
the same kind of person that I hated, someone who

1026
01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:16.960
blindly hurt other people for no apparent reason, for no

1027
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:19.239
apparent reason. So he says, in his own words, he

1028
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:23.920
hurt people for no apparent reason. Okay, so that rage

1029
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:26.280
he goes on. It says it landed him in juvenile hall.

1030
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.280
But to his surprise, the staff there were some of

1031
01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:31.920
the kindest people he had ever met. They taught me

1032
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.519
more about compassion than I can even begin to put

1033
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.480
into words. But when I was transferred to the California

1034
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.840
Youth Authority, I would question everything that I thought I

1035
01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:44.039
had learned back in Juvie. The CYA facility where I

1036
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:48.559
was sent was extremely violent on almost a daily basis, Okay,

1037
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:52.280
time out, it was extremely violent, and that seems to

1038
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.039
have hurt him. Was it violent like the videos that

1039
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.239
he was obsessed with and he loved to watch the

1040
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:01.039
gore of kids being decapitated and draft and people dying

1041
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:03.639
and being hit by trains and being sliced and diced

1042
01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:08.199
and executed. Those videos he loved. Was it violent like that?

1043
01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:10.800
Because I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't understand

1044
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:13.719
you loved that, you loved that when you were there.

1045
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:15.639
You didn't change your tune until you became an adult.

1046
01:01:17.599 --> 01:01:20.280
And living in that environment brought a lot of anger

1047
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:22.960
and hatred that he thought it would just go right

1048
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:26.159
back up to the surface. But then someone or something

1049
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:29.519
was different this time, because he felt.

1050
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:30.719
Like he was truly cared for.

1051
01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:34.440
He was connected with so many people in juvie, and

1052
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.119
once you've experienced something like that, it's hard to look away.

1053
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:39.280
So when he was turned when he turned eighteen, they

1054
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.880
transferred him to an adult prison. And this was not

1055
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:45.599
an easy transition. He said, I ended up living with

1056
01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:49.039
a very violent, hateful man who'd lash out at me

1057
01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:53.320
and start sell fights with me almost every day. It

1058
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:57.760
was after about a month, though, that he realized something

1059
01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:02.679
he saw himself and that old man, and it.

1060
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:04.320
Freaked him out.

1061
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.800
He knew then that if he didn't truly commit to changing,

1062
01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:10.760
if he kept allowing himself to be trapped by his

1063
01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:15.599
emotions and be disconnected from humanity, then he is who

1064
01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:20.880
Daniel would would would be calm, real quick. Just want

1065
01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:23.920
to let you know that ain't quite true, because he

1066
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:29.679
was refusing any type of therapy, any type until he

1067
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:33.800
learned about this Ted talk coming up. So if you

1068
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:36.400
were really trying to change yourself back, then, why were

1069
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:41.400
you refusing help? Why were you refusing therapy? And that's

1070
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:44.920
when the last thing in the world, or excuse me,

1071
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:46.960
that was the last thing in the world that I wanted.

1072
01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:52.440
Shortly after this revelation, I had another equally impactful encounter.

1073
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:55.960
I realized that I didn't understand who I was. I

1074
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:58.000
didn't understand all the things I've done. He goes on

1075
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:03.400
and on about how much change he's made, things about

1076
01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:05.760
people that didn't make any sense to me. It occurred

1077
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:09.519
to me that once you understand someone, then you can

1078
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:16.000
begin to humanize it and view it with compassion and empathy.

1079
01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:20.360
Make no mistake, make zero mistakes right now, guys, this

1080
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.440
is setting up the building blocks for people to apply

1081
01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:28.400
that to his own crime. Promise you, I promise you

1082
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.480
that it occurred to me that once you understand something,

1083
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.559
then you can begin to humanize it and then view

1084
01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:36.440
it with compassion and empathy.

1085
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:39.039
He's saying that it's about this other guy. No it's not.

1086
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:43.039
It's for the listener to apply that to him. And

1087
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:46.079
during the process he changes topics. All of a sudden,

1088
01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:48.519
he found out just how much racism is a part

1089
01:03:48.519 --> 01:03:50.559
of prison life. I don't know where racism came in,

1090
01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:53.920
but all of a sudden, he brings in racism, a

1091
01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:59.119
very random yet reprehensible issue he just brings up, and

1092
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:00.400
then he goes on to that.

1093
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:01.639
He then went and.

1094
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.840
Decided to talk to this hardcore racist because he wanted

1095
01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:09.880
to understand him. He wanted to understand the racist. And

1096
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:13.119
so he said that the racist told me how he

1097
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:15.800
grew up in a racist family with an abusive father,

1098
01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:17.840
and that when he was a teenager he met a

1099
01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:22.320
group of guys skinheads, and positive reinforcement from them is

1100
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:23.480
what he got, which is what.

1101
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:27.079
He'd been craving for most of his life.

1102
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:33.239
Well, this whole thing here is about racism, which plays

1103
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:38.039
no role in anything about anything that he is related

1104
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:40.519
to here and so he's trying to say basically that

1105
01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:43.599
he broke through a he broke through a barrier with

1106
01:04:43.639 --> 01:04:46.079
a known racist, and he's just bringing up this big

1107
01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:47.960
issue because he wants it to be tied to how

1108
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:48.639
great he is.

1109
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:51.280
I hope that people are seeing through all of this.

1110
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.199
He then said that that's whenever he started to connect

1111
01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:58.920
with this racist on a human being level, and that

1112
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:01.920
just strengthened his resolution to let go of hate and

1113
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:05.480
to gain understanding and to further foster his own connection

1114
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:09.079
with humanity. And there's a saying he says that he

1115
01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:13.360
heard hurt people, hurt people, and he said, I came

1116
01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:16.440
to realize that there are no such things as evil

1117
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:21.960
people in this world, only damaged people. Notice here real quick,

1118
01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:25.840
he said, there is no such thing as evil people

1119
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:30.280
in this world. Evil was never brought up in anything

1120
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:32.679
that he has said here. Evil was never brought up.

1121
01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:36.639
His statement was that hurt people, hurt people, and that's

1122
01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:39.480
what impacted him. But then when he gets further down,

1123
01:05:39.559 --> 01:05:42.079
he says there aren't evil people in the world.

1124
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:42.679
Guys.

1125
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:45.599
He is again he's trying to pull himself in to

1126
01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:47.000
this assessment.

1127
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.519
Here hurt people, hurt people. He never said anything about evil.

1128
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:52.400
You know why, because this guy knows that what he

1129
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:55.079
did is evil and that he had evil intentions. And

1130
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:57.760
so he goes on to close and says, so I

1131
01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:01.320
urge all of you to actively participate and further developing

1132
01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:05.519
your connection to humanity, whether it's through volunteer work, reaching

1133
01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:08.119
out to someone in need, or simply embracing those who

1134
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:11.199
are different from us. We have to be better than hate.

1135
01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:13.719
We have to be better than fear. We must learn

1136
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:17.280
to respond with love even in the most difficult of situations.

1137
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:20.920
But above all else, when this world seems too inhumane

1138
01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:28.880
for us to bear, we must always always embrace our humanity.

1139
01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:32.960
So there it is. That was his ted talk. And

1140
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:38.920
I want to let you know that after he completed

1141
01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:41.960
all of that, everyone in the crowd jumped up and

1142
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:48.320
gave him a standing ovation. A standing ovation, not one

1143
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:51.360
mention of the crimes that he had committed, not one

1144
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:54.559
mention of the heinousness of the things that he had done.

1145
01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:56.840
And he gets a standing ovation.

1146
01:06:57.159 --> 01:06:59.599
Isn't this all just such a great coincidence that he's

1147
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:02.760
choosing to embrace his humanity and express how much he

1148
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:07.360
has changed in what two months right before this hearing

1149
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:09.320
to determine how much he has changed and should he

1150
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:13.079
be released. This TED talk was in April of twenty eighteen,

1151
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:16.760
right before that fitness hearing, explicitly for the purpose of

1152
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:21.079
determining whether he could be rehabilitated or not. So the

1153
01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:24.840
hearing started a few months later on October the first,

1154
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:26.880
So miss Claudia's granddaughter.

1155
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:27.400
Her name is.

1156
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:31.159
Sarah, Miss Claudia's granddaughter. Sarah, as well as many other

1157
01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:35.119
people were in attendance to show support for the victimized

1158
01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:38.960
family members, the people that matter in this case, and

1159
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.320
to say this is wild, that this is happening right now.

1160
01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:47.880
The hearing lasted two weeks, eight hour days every day.

1161
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:51.360
The family showed up for this consistently, and I want

1162
01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:53.760
you to think about this. They had to choose between

1163
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:58.480
standing up for their murdered grandparents and their income. Let's

1164
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:00.719
not forget that part. Let's not go loss over it.

1165
01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:03.159
You cannot work while you're at a two week hearing

1166
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:08.800
about someone being released for viciously murdering your grandparents. And

1167
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:10.960
while they're there, they're hearing all about the things the

1168
01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:15.239
killer had been through and how much his life had changed,

1169
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.159
all the while knowing that nothing has changed for the

1170
01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:19.359
victims or their families.

1171
01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:20.359
Nothing.

1172
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:24.239
They're still grieving and they're still all these years later

1173
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:27.800
dealing with the horror of it all. And let it

1174
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:30.960
not be lost on you either that if the manipulation

1175
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:34.119
of that talk is not obvious and you're like, no, Kelly,

1176
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:37.119
I think you're just being mean, You're just looking too

1177
01:08:37.399 --> 01:08:39.600
deeply into this. Well, if that is the case, then

1178
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:43.560
maybe science could assist people in understanding what society was

1179
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:45.840
dealing with here. And this all goes down to what's

1180
01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:51.079
called the hair psychopathy test, okay, And this test was

1181
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:54.760
created to see if someone is a psychopath or not.

1182
01:08:55.079 --> 01:08:58.079
And while this testing has undergone updates and there have

1183
01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:02.319
been changes throughout the years, it remains still today the

1184
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:07.800
international standard for the diagnoses of psychopathy and adults as

1185
01:09:07.840 --> 01:09:09.560
well as youth. Okay, I need you to know that

1186
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:12.720
it is the standard. And the test that I'm talking

1187
01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:16.399
about is scored or scaled from a zero to a forty.

1188
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:20.359
Anybody who scores above a thirty is considered a high

1189
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:26.399
score psychopath. Daniel's testing showed that he scored a thirty

1190
01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:31.199
five point eight out of forty on the test when

1191
01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:34.760
he was given it, which was the highest that particular

1192
01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:38.600
doctor had ever seen in all of his hundreds of

1193
01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:44.800
interviews of psychopaths. Their level of connie and manipulation, guys,

1194
01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:48.640
it is so smooth and they are scarily good at it.

1195
01:09:49.800 --> 01:09:52.359
And the main traits of someone who is a psychopath

1196
01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:55.399
include being glib, which is someone who is easy going

1197
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:59.159
in their speech. They use their charm to deceive people.

1198
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:04.399
They are often self grandiose. They talk about themselves a lot,

1199
01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:07.000
and what all they have accomplished. I just told you

1200
01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:08.840
what all he talked about in that Ted talk, and

1201
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:12.479
it all went back to him, it all did. He

1202
01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.359
was able to, you know, get in tight with a

1203
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:17.119
racist and see the real him.

1204
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:18.319
He was a victim.

1205
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:21.119
He was sexually abused by people that there's no name

1206
01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:24.399
of and he won't talk about it. He was always

1207
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:28.640
the victim, always the victim. Daniel Marsh is the antithesis

1208
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:32.279
of anything that this law was trying to give a

1209
01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:37.000
second chance to, or do whatever changes to benefit somebody.

1210
01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:42.039
And thankfully, after two weeks of testimony and discussion, that

1211
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:48.439
juvenile judge agreed. His final ruling was that Daniel should

1212
01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:52.159
have been tried as an adult, and he decided with

1213
01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:54.720
the stroke of a pen that all this that Daniel

1214
01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:57.920
had done was total bullshit. He saw through it. Hopefully

1215
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.279
you do too, and he re en stated Daniel Marsh

1216
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:05.720
as an adult. By doing so, the case is what

1217
01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:07.039
is called closed.

1218
01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:08.640
That means no other.

1219
01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:13.479
Future bills or laws could possibly affect his case in disregard,

1220
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:17.079
So it should be over right. They had to continue

1221
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:19.199
to go through this, They had to go through more trials,

1222
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:22.000
more you know, more opportunities for this double killer. So

1223
01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:27.039
it should be over right. Not even close, because after

1224
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:30.319
that happened, then Daniel got to start all of his appeals.

1225
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:33.800
So the victim's family in this case would suffer through

1226
01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:39.199
three more years of additional appeals, all possible opportunities for

1227
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:43.520
overturning everything that they had fought against for so long.

1228
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:47.239
When I say victims first, this is the type of

1229
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:50.039
shit that I think about and that I revert back

1230
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:54.680
to because they are never given anything. It's the criminals

1231
01:11:54.680 --> 01:12:00.760
that are given every damn opportunity. Finally, though, in twenty

1232
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:05.680
twenty one, the courts denied all appeals and Daniel Marsh

1233
01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:10.119
was where he was going to be remaining for now,

1234
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:14.159
And that is until I looked up his current doc status,

1235
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.600
and that's when I found Department of Corrections. If you

1236
01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:18.880
don't know, I looked up his DOC status just curious,

1237
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:20.680
and I found that he is going to be up

1238
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:25.000
for a parole consultation in December of twenty thirty one

1239
01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:29.880
and is eligible for parole in twenty thirty six.

1240
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:33.279
Will it ever be over for these victims?

1241
01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:36.560
If you've listened this far, hopefully you're grasping what I'm

1242
01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:39.680
trying to tell you, because the answer is no, it won't.

1243
01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:44.960
It'll never end for these victims ever, And the misery

1244
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:47.520
doesn't even end there. Do you remember when I told

1245
01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:51.079
you that the spotlight was originally put on mister Chip's grandson, Tony.

1246
01:12:51.319 --> 01:12:53.479
Was that drawing they found in the home which ended

1247
01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:54.920
up being completely unrelated to.

1248
01:12:54.880 --> 01:12:55.560
What had happened.

1249
01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:59.560
Well, Tony felt like he could never shake the looks

1250
01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:03.840
from people or the scrutiny that he may have been

1251
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:08.680
their killer. It hurt him deeply. Even though his name

1252
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:12.520
was cleared, that stigma haunted him. He felt like he

1253
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:17.439
couldn't escape it, and three years after the murders had occurred,

1254
01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:20.840
it was still very much in the public eye. It

1255
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:24.359
never seemed to go away. Tony was doing his best y'all.

1256
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:27.399
He was working as a contractor for SpaceX and Tesla.

1257
01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:32.039
His heart was with people and community. He volunteered for

1258
01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:36.199
the US Army, He served in the California Conservation Corps.

1259
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:39.640
This guy was doing the best he could. But no

1260
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:42.079
matter how much good he did, and no matter how

1261
01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:46.319
genuine he was, he could never shake that feeling of accusation.

1262
01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:50.159
And the weight became too much for him to carry.

1263
01:13:50.319 --> 01:13:54.319
When he couldn't take it anymore, and tragically, on October

1264
01:13:54.359 --> 01:14:00.159
the sixteenth of twenty sixteen, Tony Northup committed suicide. Mister

1265
01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:05.560
Chip's son, Robert, lost not only his dad his stepmother,

1266
01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:11.439
but he also lost his son to this tragedy. I

1267
01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:17.119
want to implore lawmakers to involve victims in the lawmaking process,

1268
01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:22.640
especially when it involves sentencing changes for murderers. No victims

1269
01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:25.720
were on that panel when that law was being drafted.

1270
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:29.760
The implications will affect more than just the offender, and

1271
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:34.199
we can never lose sight of that. Dead does not

1272
01:14:34.479 --> 01:14:38.640
mean irrelevant. When someone is dead and gone, it does

1273
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:42.920
not negate their purpose and their role in this crime.

1274
01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:46.520
And let's be very very clear here, mister Chip is

1275
01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:49.039
dead because of Daniel Marsh.

1276
01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:52.039
Miss Claudia is dead because of.

1277
01:14:52.039 --> 01:14:59.279
Daniel Marsh, and Tony Northip is dead because of Daniel Marsh.

1278
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:02.920
The wake of all of the death and destruction, it

1279
01:15:02.960 --> 01:15:06.720
was that very person, Daniel Marsh, that was given every

1280
01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:13.840
opportunity the system could justify, evaluations, interventions, careful assessment, all

1281
01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:18.399
wrapped up in this language of hope, hope. He got

1282
01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:22.079
every consideration the system could hand out, short of given

1283
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:27.960
him the damn keys to his cell programs, privileges, platforms.

1284
01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.640
I mean hell, they even gave him a stage, complete

1285
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:35.720
with a standing ovation. But what was missed, it seems,

1286
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:40.960
is that people were clapping for the performance, not the person,

1287
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:44.239
Because behind the polished words and all that ted talk

1288
01:15:44.399 --> 01:15:48.760
charm was the same calculating double murderer. All he had

1289
01:15:48.800 --> 01:15:53.760
done was craftfully convinced listeners that his false redemption was

1290
01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:58.119
worth more than both of his victims' lives. What he

1291
01:15:58.159 --> 01:16:01.720
basically said in essence was dead and I'm not. So

1292
01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:07.199
let's give me a second opportunity. Anyone can memorize emotion

1293
01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:14.119
filled lines, anyone can rehearse colorful talking points surrounded by rhetoric.

1294
01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:19.399
True redemption isn't something you perform your way into and

1295
01:16:19.479 --> 01:16:22.920
no amount of clapping is ever gonna drown out what

1296
01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:29.439
Daniel Marsh did to those two people, the audacity to

1297
01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:33.840
stand there talking about tapping into humanity as if empathy

1298
01:16:34.279 --> 01:16:37.520
was all that was needed. The thing is, sympathy and

1299
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:40.960
empathy they're not the same, guys. Sympathy you feel sorry

1300
01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:45.680
for someone. Empathy is that you feel the pain, you've

1301
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:51.000
been there before. Well, I've never been there before, Daniel.

1302
01:16:51.319 --> 01:16:55.319
I've never stabbed elderly people. I've never removed their organs,

1303
01:16:55.359 --> 01:16:58.199
I've never bragged to people about it. So I'm sorry

1304
01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:01.239
if your ted talk falls flat for me. I don't

1305
01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:03.760
feel sorry for him, and I certainly don't have one

1306
01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:04.479
ounce of.

1307
01:17:04.439 --> 01:17:06.560
Empathy for Daniel Marsh.

1308
01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:12.079
People who learn the language of remorse without ever feeling it,

1309
01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:16.960
they can sound exactly like what everyone wants to hear.

1310
01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:22.720
But sounding human and being human are two very different things.

1311
01:17:22.760 --> 01:17:26.600
Because you cannot rehearse your way into redemption, you don't

1312
01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:30.239
get to narrate your own transformation, while the weight of

1313
01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:33.119
your actions sits unchanged.

1314
01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:34.640
Unearned and unanswered.

1315
01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:38.239
Second chances absolutely mean something, but only when there's something

1316
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:42.760
real behind them, not in the words, not in the

1317
01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:47.119
doe eyed posture and smile being delivered upon a stage,

1318
01:17:47.399 --> 01:17:50.479
and not in that carefully delivered set of.

1319
01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:53.079
Lines about growth and humanity.

1320
01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:56.359
Because when you strip all the performance away, what is

1321
01:17:56.479 --> 01:18:04.199
left isn't misunderstood, it's unmss stakable. That is a psychopathic killer.

1322
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:09.359
So if tapping into my humanity is what Daniel wants,

1323
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:11.560
then that's exactly what he should get.

1324
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:12.479
I agree here.

1325
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:16.960
Everyone should have seen the crime scene photos of what

1326
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:20.680
he did before hearing him speak, you're right, let's tap

1327
01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:24.520
right in, show the people what you did before you

1328
01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:28.720
talk about humanity. They also should have listened to his

1329
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:32.800
smiling exhilaration as he talked about how murdering those two

1330
01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:35.600
people was better than sex. They should have seen it,

1331
01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:38.399
they should have heard it, and then they should have

1332
01:18:38.479 --> 01:18:42.359
tapped into his brilliance. And I don't have time for

1333
01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:45.680
hypocrites here either. So in that same spirit of humanity,

1334
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:49.960
the same people that were standing ovations to Daniel Marsh

1335
01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:53.479
they better be willing to also stand and give ovations

1336
01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:58.199
to Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgway, Eileen Woronos,

1337
01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:03.279
and Dennis Rader, because all of those people scored lower

1338
01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:09.399
on that Harror psychopathy test than Daniel marsh here was

1339
01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:11.039
higher than all of those people.

1340
01:19:11.479 --> 01:19:12.840
It's easy to clap.

1341
01:19:12.600 --> 01:19:15.399
In cheer for someone when you don't have the whole story.

1342
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:19.239
So Daniel, real quick, buddy, remind us real quick what

1343
01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:22.760
it felt like to kill mister Chip and miss Claudia.

1344
01:19:23.319 --> 01:19:29.000
I'm not gonna I felt. I mean it was care,

1345
01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:36.319
happiness and adrenaline and dopamine, all of it rushing over me.

1346
01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:40.239
But don't feel the throw the people at all.

1347
01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:46.760
Don't feel Tapping into humanity implies that Daniel is only

1348
01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:50.439
human and that he isn't worth throwing away. And look,

1349
01:19:50.479 --> 01:19:52.359
I'd have to agree with that, because throwing him away

1350
01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:55.239
would be the waste of a perfectly good trash back.

1351
01:19:55.600 --> 01:20:00.119
So instead of him preaching to us about tapping into humanity,

1352
01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:03.560
we need to be tapping into his veins, doing humanity

1353
01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:05.840
a favor and putting that animal down