Part 2 | Obsessed: The Susan Powell Case

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's kJ here, back for no other episode of Unspeakable. How's it going in your neck of the woods. I am having a fantastic week. I have knocked some things off of my my bucket list that I'm gonna be releasing to y'all soon, and I'm just tickled pink about everything that's gone down of the last few days in my life.

1:15 I hope that you have met some goals yourself, because it's just the best feeling, you know, whenever you're meeting dreams and goals and all of that. Let me do some shout outs for you though right now. This one's pretty cool. This is gonna be from Miss Vicki Armitage. I know you wanted your shout out, girl, and I'm giving it to you. She is from EMU Planes, South Wales, Australia, across the world from me and listening to this podcast, and I'm just I'm just so tickled pink by that I've never been to Australia. Well, I was at the thunder Down Unda in Vegas one time, the Male Strip Show, but I don't know if that counts. I hope you're doing well on Miss VICKI. I hope that you're having a wonderful week. I know you told me also that I believe one of your sons had his birthday this week, so you tell I said, happy birthday. And I hope that things are going great for y'all in your neck of the woods. I've also got Beth Whittaker from and I hope it don't jack this up. Beth Whittaker from New braun Fules, Texas. I hope I said that right.

2:13 How are you doing over there in Texas, Beth, I hope things are going great for you. I'm a fan of Texas. I have a whole lot of listeners there and so y'all are my people, and I love having you. Another text that I have from San Antonio, Texas, Catherine van Horn. That's a good name, that's a solid name. My name is Katherine van Horn. I hope you use that. Put your chest with it when you say a girl. I love it. I hope you're doing well. Thank you so much for joining my Patreon. And then, last but not least, today, I've got miss Leslie Kolb from Derritter, Louisiana right here in my neck of the woods. That's awesome. All right, So we're gonna start part two, and yes, I will finish this story today. But told it took me a full two episodes to get this done. So let's go back to Washington where we were with the Joshua Powell Susan Powell fiasco that's going on. I left off last episode with the cringe worthy song that Stephen Powell wrote for his missing daughter in law Susan. And by the way, if you're a new listener, don't start on this episode. Go back one before you listen to this one, because this is going to be a continuation of the last one that I did. But Stephen Powell's obsession with Susan was off the charts, and it was something that definitely was problematic. There was something very wrong with the situation at hand, and everyone agreed, including Stephen's own daughter. She was stunned by the things that her father told the media about he and Susan's supposed affair that they were supposedly having. It was absolutely insane, and his own daughter thought, what are you doing? What are

3:44 you doing? Stephen Powell clearly had been fantasizing about Susan for a long time. And the thing is, while he was saying all of this in the media and Susan, we don't know where she is, and she's not here to defend whether that's true or not. The thing is, in her past, she had been crystal clear. Susan was very clear with everyone that she felt completely creeped out by her father in law. At one point, early on in her marriage to Josh, they had moved in briefly with Stephen, and that would prove a very tense situation, very uncomfortable situation for Susan. So Susan was constantly dealing with unwanted advances and these these off color comments from Stephen, and at first she attempted to remain kind and cordial in that it was extremely uncomfortable, but Steven wasn't really taking the hint that she was not She was not interested.

4:47 It got so bad at one point that she even confronted Stephen in a vehicle about his behavior. It's just kind of like Susan was on an island by herself, trying to mitigate a number of issues in her life, and she felt so alone, a distant husband who she wanted to leave because he was a total weirdo, as well as a father in law who was sexually forward with her. It's just the level of stress that this had to bring to this poor woman. I can't comprehend, and just as an outsider looking in, it stresses me out to Helen back. I mean, this is a lot to be dealing with. There was something else happening that Susan was unaware of, and something that was veiled in innocence but extremely devious in nature. Let me explain. Stephen Powell was always filming with his camera Christmas holidays, get togethers at the house, other outings when they would go, when they would do things together as a group. But what seemed like something that we all do to capture memories and to remember events. Was something far more perverse than Susan or anyone would realize. While one would assume that the filming he was doing was average because he was out in the open, he was in front of everyone, from behind the camera, it was anything, but it was what he was filming in secrecy that makes your stomach turn.

6:18 He would be chatting and carrying on like normal when he's holding the camera In some of the videos, Susan's showing off her new leather jack jacket at Christmas, or she's on the phone, sitting on a stool talking to somebody, or you know, just normative things. But while he was sitting there talking normally and like this was just an everyday video that he was doing, his camera would zoom in on Susan's butt and on her thighs and in between her legs, and all of this was unbeknownst to Susan while it was happening. But y'all, it wasn't just that he would slink around the house and film her through cracked doors. She would think that she had this reasonable expectation of privacy in her room, but he would be filming her zooming in through the crack in the door on things like her feet while she's laying on the bed. It has such a creep factor that it's it just makes you feel sick. So what Stephen is doing as far as filming, that's gonna be called voyeurism.

7:28 Statutes will vary state to state in specifics, but all filming is gonna have to be within some sort of reason. But when you're filming someone for lud or lascivious purposes, that's a no go across the board, every state agrees with that. So basically, if you're filming for perverted reasons, it's unacceptable filming being on film. Just so you understand this, being on Filming in public is okay because there's no expectation of absolute privacy in public places. You know, if you're at Disney World with your family, or you're at the park, or you know, even if you're shopping at Walmart, there's a there's a chance you'll be on someone's film. But we don't need your consent to do that filming.

8:11 But if someone is filming up your skirt or down your shirt, or through the cracks in a in a restroom stall, something of that nature that that is an absolute no go. And I think we all understand that why that would be. So you add Steve's voyeuristic tendencies towards Susan with the songs that he would write her that were creepy as hell, and you have yourself a really big brewing problem. Steve would post these songs online on this self made website under his I guess entertainment pseudonym that he created. You're gonna love this Steve Chantrey. Hm, wow, doesn't that just grab your attention? Whatever? But he had that fake name of Steve Chantrey, and he had this website, which, by the way, is totally self indulgent. It's maroon and white with the title the Music of Steve Chantrey, and uh yeah, I can't his photo on the top of him of it is him sitting like on a large rock and it's got the Seattle skyline at night behind him, and it's like his attempt at looking sexy. It just misses the mark. And his vocals have so much to be desired. So in my searching of him and my research, I did find some online posts of his music, and this song I found interesting. The opening lyrics are odd.

9:38 Give it a listen and let's see what you think. I said I love Is that a cry? And look if I said to you one long time. I love, so put me into jail. I said I love. I couldn't health lift and we're mistaking. If you thought I shelf did? I said, I love you, so put me in jail? What the hell is that about? Remember, Susan is missing, gone, and all this weird shit just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

10:25 That music, y'all. Oh well, maybe it was unintentionally prophetic in some way, because when the police decided to look further into Steven via a search warrant of course, of the home, they were shook with the by the inappropriate filming of Susan that they found tons of videos of her. He would slide mirrors underdoors to try and see Susan in the bathroom, y'all. He would steal her clothing and then make videos of him with it, narrating his feelings on these voyeuristic videos. Listen to this portion of one such video. As he's filming Susan's clothing, He's got it laid out on a bed. Listen to this, I love.

11:12 Putting her underwear against my face, just smelling her scent. This makes my skin crawl. It's gotta be making yours. And I didn't even have to live it, y'all. We're just learning about it. We didn't have to live it. It's just disgusting in every way. Another video, which I'll tell you, was mainly audio, but this was whenever Steven had gotten in the car with his cell phone. He recorded it. He hit record, and he hid the cell phone in the car and he recorded one of his own unwanted advancements he made towards Susan. Listen to the audio of Susan's response, because I'm gonna play it for you.

11:53 You get to hear it in her own words. She is so uncomfortable, but she speaks up. It's not her. I feel we fall in love with you, you know. I'm sure the last year and a half year, I think, let's think you can take it then. Just for example, when we were sitting on the couch and just felt like you were very you know, I mean I was extremely aroused, and I think you were somewhat aroused. At least. I thought, I don't. Know where we're going in this kind of meaning to talk to you about this. As I realized the last time I. Came over and that my own father doesn't kiss me, and you you kissed me.

12:35 And I didn't like that. Whoa y'all. I felt her when she said, my own dad doesn't kiss me like that, like straight up saying you are out of line, sir. Something from since I was in my twenties, maybe my late teens, is if somebody got stupid with me or a guy did, I would say, my daddy doesn't talk to me like that, and you sure as hell aren't either. So I wow. When she said that I was a girl, you and me both, I mean, she said it, and I feel like she was pretty direct with him that she wasn't interested. But he had continued this this this behavior. So when Susan went to her husband, Josh with her concern and her distress over his dad, Josh brushed it off and he basically told her that, oh, my dad's just like that, and he didn't mean anything by it, and and just dismissed what she had to say. The man was saying he was aroused on the couch next to her. He claimed on national television that she would press her breasts against him on a cold day, and he enjoyed it.

13:40 I'm so sorry, but that is not That's just how my dad is. All that does is just validate that Steve's been a per of his whole life. That's all that. If Josh is saying that's just how my dad is, okay, then your dad is a pervert, that's all You're all. You're telling me the man you married won't even listen to you when his own dad is making sexual advances on you. That is not a man. That is a coward. Josh, unbelievable. And look, I'm gonna tell you all this. I'm gonna back up for a second. I want to tell y'all a little bit more about Steven and Josh that I found while I was I was writing this. Josh's parents, okay, Stephen and Tarika, that was Josh's mom. Stephen and Tarka had gotten married, but they were divorced and the divorce that they went through was ugly. When Josh was a teenager.

14:28 I believe he was about sixteen whenever this took place, and according to the divorce filings by Josh's mom, this was in nineteen ninety two. Her husband, Stephen, was openly sharing pornography with their teenage sons, and her other complaint was that he was teaching Josh and his other brothers that a woman is basically not to be respected. They do what the man tells them to do. Stephen, according to Tarika, she was She described him as very anti church, anti c anti authority, anti morality, and very radical. That's a direct quote. So it kind of gives you some insight to how this man thinks, and that he almost has this egotistical view that my way is the way and if you don't like it, you can step off.

15:16 So Josh had taken on. It seemed this worldview that Steven held, even being condescending to his own mother, telling her at one point, you have to earn my respect. Mom, this is a teenage boy. Let me tell you where I come from. You're gonna get smacked across your mouth. You talk to your mama like that. That wouldn't fly a day where I'm from. But that boy had the audacity to tell his mama, you got to earn my respect. After that woman carried him for nine months, fed him, clothed him, and raised him up, and you're gonna turn around talk to that woman like that. M No way now. During that same divorce, Josh's sister, Jennifer, who is eighteen, you know, the one who who the wire for police, And because she was just very like, I don't know what's going on here, Josh, she even wrote the courts during this divorce, and she was writing them saying how disturbed she was after a conversation she had had with her dad. So what happened then was that they were reading this newspaper article or discussing it over the table, and it was about men who stalk and kill their former lovers. And Jennifer asked her dad if he would ever do that to her mom if she left him, And all her dad said to her was, I'd like to think I wouldn't take it that far. Who says that to their daughter about the idea of killing her mom.

16:44 I mean, it's arrogance at its finest. Any good parent would say, oh my god, no, even if your mother and I can't get along, and even if we have to get divorced, your mom is a good mama. Anyone, even if they didn't like the mom, anyone that's a good parent would dismiss that thought, but all he could say was, I'd like to think I wouldn't take it that far. That has a hint of fear factor in it. To me, I just I don't like that at all. And there was an incident too where Josh, who was still a teenager, remember sixteen seventeen years old, she asked him to do the dishes, and he grabbed a butcher knife in that kitchen and jumped up on her and said, don't push it. Can you imagine the gall to do that to your mother as a teenage boy. So clearly respect for women was out the window, even for his own mother and his father, Steven had been a poor and loving weirdo for years. Based on everything that I read, so now that Josh was married with kids of his own, Josh was very controlling, and he also would do things to try to like, undo whatever his wife had asked of their sons. For example, Susan would try to put the boys to bed, or would go put the boys to bed, tuck them in, kiss some good night, turn off the lights and shut the door. And then after she had done that, which any mama listening to this knows that that is the hardest thing to do is to get all those kids down for bed, and once they're finally down, you're like, oh, thank goodness. But then Josh would turn around and go in their rooms, wake

18:18 them up, get them up out of the bed, and then tell them things like, mommy's so mean making you go to bed, just completely trying to overthrow any authority as a mom that she was, you know, putting over her children that you need to go to bed, you need to get some rest. So Steven's husband and father behaviors seemed to have really been impressed upon Josh, and then Josh was repeating them. It just seems like a cycle here that I'm seeing. So back to the current situation at hand. Police executed that search warrant on Stephen and Josh's home, and even more would come to light that would make the most seasoned investigators, It would make their stomachs turn. Computers and other digital items were removed from the home, and those would eventually expose a lot about Steven's perverse daily habits that he had. But it was a filing cabinet and some journals that caught the immediate attention of the police. So these journals were written by Susan and Josh had brought them from the original marital home of Josh and Susan, and when he moved in with his dad, he brought these journals with him.

19:31 There were seven of them. Susan was an avid journaler day to day, and her thoughts and feelings were right there in her own words, in her own handwriting the filing cabinets, and those writings, y'all, they obviously expressed her fear for her children, her fear for herself, how much she didn't care for her father in law, how Josh was being controlling and not making sense and just being very abusive to her. But those filing cabinets, and y'all clutch your pearls. I'm serious. Those filing cabinets were in the walking closet of Stephen's bedroom and they would hold a trove of evidence about his behaviors. Are you ready for this? Stephen would take used items of Susan's out of the trash and bag them in ziplocks. He would label them like some sort of disgusted, perverted museum and store it for him to go back through. Things like cotton balls with removed makeup on them, used wax strips.

20:41 Y'all her used tampon applicators, extremely personal and let's be honest, unhygienic items to be keeping. I mean this is this is a man out of control. There was also those videos of Susan clearly being filmed without her knowledge and per the warrant. I actually have it quoted for you right here, the warrant and it says in some images Susan Powell was fully clothed, while other images she was only in her underwear. There was a detective there. Detective Maxwell described one image of Susan Powell in a bathroom doing her hair while dressed only in her underwear. Based off of the photographs, it appeared the photographer was taking this picture secretly through the slightly opened door without Susan Powell's knowledge. Another image was of Susan Powell while she was sitting at a table wearing a dress. Based on the image, the photographer photographed Susan Powell secretly while she was looking away from the camera, and the image shows Susan Powell's legs slightly open, exposing her underwear. They found several vhs and eight millimeter cassettes that were blank or had Susan Powell's name written on them. Just the you can't even sit down at this house. You can't get dressed, you can't close a door and put your hair up, take a bath, use the restroom without some man filming you.

22:09 It's just Oh, if this isn't enough to get your blood boiling, the absolute invasion of someone's personal space, then while you're fuming for Susan, you might want to save some of that for Steven's juvenile next door neighbors. Yeah, two little girls, age seven and twelve, were unknowingly being victimized by Stephen Powell. The police seized a computer, one specific disc from Steven's bedroom, and when they were searching through its contents, they found that it contained tons of photos of the neighbor's little girls in their own bathroom. In some of those photographs they were bathing and other ones they were sitting on the toilet, using the restroom.

22:55 So what did this predator film exactly? And this is uncomfortable, I know it is, but you need to know what these people are like. He was zooming in on these little girls genitalia and it says breasts, but their little girls where their breast areas would be covered and uncovered. So while this was happening, it makes you wonder, Okay, well where was he and how was he filming this? Well, that part's upsetting too. He was set up in his own bedroom and he had these specialized lenses that he would video and photograph them through his window into theirs, so he never even left the comfort of his home. And I saw snippets of some of these videos. Now I want to be clear, nothing of perversion. I wouldn't even watch that. Just a glance of them standing in the bathroom. They are fully clothed. It's just a snippet of one of the films, but it's unnerving at minimum to invade a child like that. In total, he had over two thousand images. And I'd also like to add that Steven couldn't leave himself out of all the fun either.

24:01 So they also found that he had stored images of himself that are grotesquely sexual in nature, and they included pictures of himself naked, images of his genitals, and then he even took pictures of himself while masturbating, un just unspeakable behavior. So when all of this was uncovered, police immediately took action right then and there, and they arrested Stephen Powell. He was charged with fourteen counts of voyeurism and he got one count of second degree possession of depictions of a minor engaged in a sexually explicit conduct ie child pornography. So on September twenty second, now this is twenty eleven, when Stephen was arrested, Josh now became the remaining focus of the investigation, and as such, Susan's parents blessed their Heartshaw not only had lost their daughter to date because we don't know where she is, but they were now limited on the access to her children, and so, realizing the gravity of the situation that was unfolding, they wanted Charlie and Braden out of that household. This is too much. My daughter is missing, the man she married is acting a damn fool. His dad is a pervert that sexualizes children and adults. You know something is wrong here. Their safety was of absolute issue, and this led the Coxes to take the huge step of filing for custody of the boys. They felt that they had

25:33 to to protect them. So Stephen was tried. Of course, he went to he went to court. He was tried, pled not guilty. You know, he didn't do it, not not mister Sean Trey. Oh my god. But Stephen was tried, he pled, not guilty, and he ultimately was convicted and he was sentenced to five years in prison. Doesn't seem long enough to me, just so you know. And in the meantime, Child the Family Services of Washington also felt that there was a bona fide imminent danger in leaving the boys with Josh, so they took custody of the children, but agreed with family placement of the boys and awarded foster custody to the Coxes. So they got the children, which hell Loujah. Now, Josh wasn't willing to let them go without a fight, though, and the line at this point was clearly drawn in the sand between he and the Coxes. There was no love lost. And this starts really ramping up because of the children. And I don't feel like Josh wanted the boys for genuine reasons. I don't feel like this was a dad who wanted his sons in his life so he could raise up strong boys.

26:41 I didn't get that feeling at all about this. I think that he wanted them in his control at all times so that they couldn't have the opportunity to talk or possibly reveal anything that they may know or remember about when their mother went missing. This was a self preservation situation for Josh. I don't think it was spawn out of love. Case in point, one of the boys drew a picture of the family in their minivan, little stick people and all of that, and when talking about the picture, he told his grandpa that his mom was in the trunk. Now, what little kid's gonna make that up? That their mother was in the trunk. That's just not natural. Additional question of the children was done too, and this time there was a big difference as far as Charlie's willingness to talk. And this is one of those forensic interviews I told you about. During these interviews, he referred to his mama as Susan, which he never did before.

27:34 And it sounds a whole lot like what an adult would refer to her as, right, the father in law would have said Susan, or maybe their dad called her susan, but they called her mommy. But now they're referring to her as Susan. And Charlie was very reserved in what he was willing to say. And when you listen, it's obvious Charlie had clearly been coached by someone he had already And I think about this, little fella. He had already lost one parent. His mom was gone, and I'm sure that was unnerving that your mom just would up and disappear. And now presumably his one remaining parent was confusing him on what he could or could not say, and that loyalty to that remaining parent. As a little fella, it would make sense to me that, oh, if my dad says not to say this, then maybe I shouldn't say it. Or if my dad says this or that, maybe I should copy that. But I got a portion of that interview of Charlie, one of Charlie's interviews, and I'm gonna play it for you. I want to set you up real quick, though. Charlie is eating French fries and he's crunching on the little paper bag from the restaurant, So you're gonna hear this crunching noise while he's talking.

28:38 But that's what it is. Do you remember you went you went camping? Yeah, as we capt it got over again? No, how come? Okay, safe, do not call it, Florence. Why why isn't camping good for you? Thing? It's good for me? Best? Wait? Yeah, I have to sign my camping stuff to go camping. You have to find your camping stuff to go camping again. Yeah, yeah, Charlie, has anybody talked to you about your mom? Mmmmmm No, I'm not know where she is.

29:27 She's got lost. Somewhere, she got lost somewhere. Tell me about your mom getting lost. I'm not know where she got lost. I didn't get start where she lost. You didn't see where she got lost? Where was the last place you did see her? John knows? John does? Yeah, that's let's see. That's he going up. Clos he's he lives with your family, and he knows what and he went where sun he did? And where do you know where Susan went?

30:20 No? Like John, guys, we we can't talk of oustujaik campaign. I I always keep things as secret. Look, talking to children, we all know this, if you've been around them, they can get things, you know, mixed up because they're little, and they they take reality and they take what they remember, and sometimes they'll intertwine those things. But obviously, little Charlie here is combining his own thoughts with information someone else has provided him, and hearing his little voice talk about his mommy and then referring to her as Susan at some point that was painful for me as a mama, because you know, when you're somebody's mommy and you love them with your entire heart and soul, and then you're reduced to your first name. And I say reduced because mommy is a title that is so special to a mom and then to be called Susan, that really hurt my heart for Susan and the way I interpreted this, And look, it's a free world. You can interpret it how you want, and I'm going to just give you my opinion. But hearing his little voice talk about his mommy and then switching and then referring to her as Susan, I think when he's saying mommy, that's his own thoughts, and I think when he's saying Susan, it's from the coaching that he got from an adult.

31:47 I could be wrong, that's just how I feel it is. But he mentioned an uncle. John knows where Susan is in that audio, and the only John I wanted to address because I knew someone would probably ask me. The only John that I'm aware of is Josh's younger brother, John, and he was never considered a suspect in Susan's disappearance whatsoever. So I'm going to address that again later towards the end of this episode, but just keep that in mind if you were wondering who John was. That was Josh's brother. So it was September twenty eighth, twenty eleven, and the Powell boys were moved into the home of Chuck and Judy Cox, but Josh wasn't completely removed from the boys' lives. Josh would be allowed supervised visits, much to his irritation because he didn't want people watching him interact with his children.

32:35 So when they all returned before the court in February of twenty twelve, the presiding judge ruled that the boys would remain in the custody of Susan's parents, but Josh would be given the opportunity to get them back. The requirement though for him to do this, would be that he would have to undergo a psycho sexual evaluation, and these evaluations are done to determine if the person being tested is at risk for a offending in a sexual way, and b if that is thought that it could be an issue, then what therapies might that person require in order to correct these behaviors. So I want to give you a little more insight to this so you'll understand exactly what would have happened there. A psychologist, first of all, would take down information on the person that they were testing, and this is gonna be thing like things like personal and family background, education and employment history, substance abuse history, sexual history and interests, and things like that, if they've ever been treated for any type of sexual issue whatever.

33:39 Then it moves into the psychological testing, which includes not only evaluating their mental status, but they're also going to look at things like their personality traits, their propensity towards criminal behavior. But one unsettling test that is also completed is a specialized test to identify deviant sexual interests in conjunction with patterns of arousal. Now, I'm gonna warn you real quick this is very uncomfortable for the average person. But if you're curious about what they do, I've got the information for you and I'm going to share it. If this isn't for you, you can fast forward for the next thirty seconds or so, and you don't have to hear this part. So what's done here to determine the sexual deviant interest and the pattern of arousal is the person is seated in a room and they play a combination of audio along with visual images. Now, the audio, I want to tell you, is very provocative and it's very sexually deviant. Just the audio portion. The images that are shown are not and I want to be clear on this, they are not child pornography. There are normal child photos that a sexually deviant person might be aroused by. So, for example, there may be a child, a toddler, laying on their back on the ground drinking a bottle of milk, a very normative photograph. Anyone else who looked at it

35:13 would say, oh, look a baby drinking milk. But the audio while they're viewing that picture will say things like, oh wow, she really knows how to suck on her bottle, keep going, keep going. Just very uncomfortable for the average Joe. I'm uncomfortable telling it to you, but that's what it is. There's a third component component to this test as well, and that's going to be that arousal measurement portion. And this is done via something that's done as a penal put the ismograph, and it's a ring shaped gauge that is placed over the shaft of the man's penis, and if he becomes aroused, even if he tries to fight it, even if it's the most minimal arousal response possible, the gauge is so sensitive that it will detect the growth or the the blood input into that part of the body.

36:03 And it works a whole lot like a light detector test, because the subject would have these monitors around their chest and they would also have these little monitors on their fingers, and that's gonna measure things like their breathing rates and their sweat because obviously, if there was a rousal, this would cause blood flow to increase as that heart is beating faster, and then the body produces more sweat. The thing is this, if Josh was a pervert, this test was gonna prove it. And Josh was not jumping to take that test. His response to the court was that he felt that he had proved himself a fit and loving father. He was providing a stable home for the boys, even in the face and this is a quote of great adversity and that he needed his young sons to come home. The reality is, though some stuff had been found in the home that not many people mention. But I'm your girl here and I'm gonna give it all to you, because everything matters in this case. Josh's dad wasn't the only one that had perverse material in the home.

37:02 I know you're probably not shocked, but I'm here to verify it for you. Josh did too, and his fetish was incestuous sex between parents and their children. The courts were spot on in this testing that they wanted done on him. The images that were found were sexual images of popular kids cartoons, things like the Rugrats, SpongeBob, SquarePants, Dennis the Menace, and it's just unconscionable what that material showed on his computer. There was another fifteen images, y'all that showed three D depictions of sex involving parents and their own children. It's unbelievable the perversion that these children were in a home with. So Josh had hired an attorney and he was in communication with him over the unfolding custody situation. Her His name was Jeffrey Bassett and they both they would they would go back and forth not only by phone but by email correspondence, and Josh just was not getting his way in the courtroom as he shouldn't have. But he thought with this representation he had that he was just going to get his kids back.

38:16 So the defense opted in court in regards to all these images that were found to say, oh, those weren't Josh's. But this is the part that kind of irks me. But even if they were Josh's, his defense was that there's nothing illegal about cartoons having sex and drawings. It's just a drawing. And I'm not going to go off on a tangent here, but I want to point something out to everybody, and what I'm gonna point out to you is the world of AI that we are living in right now, because this is going to get scary. Y'all can mark my words on this. If you don't think evil, it's this will never cross your mind. But we are going to be in a new age of deviance.

38:57 Hear me out. People can create AI images and they're fake, y'all. They're totally fake, but they look very real and they're making child porn images. Think about it. Think about that someone can take your face, your child's face, and make an AI simulation with them on it. It looks real as all get out. How are you gonna feel about that? So don't come at me with this shit about it's not real. So it doesn't matter. I don't care, not when it comes to children, it's off limits. But y'all better consider that. You better consider it because it's gonna happen. This defense, to me was sick. I don't care who it is in the drawing, but incestuous material depicting in any manner with a child or anyone for that matter, it's not art. That would be your only other thing to say, Oh it's art. No, absolutely not. It's sick and it's perverse, and it's unacceptable in our society. So Josh wanted to have the kids visit with him at his own house, but again there was that great deal of pushback from the Coxes. They were adamant, this is not a good idea, and I know we all agree with them. They were very vocal. Susan's parents were very vocal with anyone and everyone involved in this case that they felt like Josh was more than capable at this point of hurting or even possibly killing the children. And I mean, shit, we haven't even found Susan, y'all. We got Grandpa in prison, we got Dad looking at incestuous material porn, and we don't even know where Susan is.

40:32 This is huge. I think the Coxes were on point here. Their main concern was this, and they expressed it very clearly. If Josh feels cornered and it's starting to feel like he may lose these children or that y'all might arrest him at some point, he might hurt our grandchildren, He's like a caged animal. So originally the plan was that they were going to do supervised visitations at a secure facility, like a third party secure facility, not the home of Josh and Stephen Powell. So Josh took that to be okay, Well, if I go get a different house away from my dad, then that should change things. So he went and rented his own home and then made a plea before the courts that this wasn't his father's home so he shouldn't be held under the same restrictions. The Coxes at this point are like whoa no no, no, no, no no.

41:23 And while all of their concerns were noted. The decision was eventually made that the children would get to go visit Josh at his new home, but a Child Protective Services worker would remain with the children and supervise every visit while it happened. That social worker that was assigned to the supervision was named Elizabeth Griffin Hall. So on the morning of February fifth, twenty twelve, the Coxes had the boys, as was the custody agreement, but it was a visitation day with their dad, Josh. So they got the boys ready. They were getting them all packed up up, and the boys were telling the Coxes, we don't want to go. We just want to stay here. And normally, okay, if kids didn't want to go visit, you would just say okay, but this was a court order. They didn't have an option. The boys had to go. The Coxes had to turn the boys over to Elizabeth. So the grandparents, while getting them dressed, promised them, you're gonna come back home to us. It's gonna be okay. The visit's just gonna be a little while, and then when you get back home, everything's gonna be good and dandy. Don't worry about a thing, because they're good people, y'all. And I imagine the Coxes probably said something like, your daddy loves you and he wants to see you, knowing full well that he probably killed their daughter. But they're good people and they're not going to traumatize those children like that.

42:46 So they hugged the boys and they handed them off to Elizabeth. So they got in the car and Elizabeth drove them to the new home of Josh Powell. The boys popped open the doors and they unloaded from the car, and she was right there with them, one step behind them. As they were approaching the front door, the boys are giggling and playing about and just being little boys. So Josh came to the door after they knocked. He opened the door smiling, and he told Charlie, Charlie, I have a surprise for you. And so the boys both darted into the house, excited for their surprise, and right as Elizabeth went to step inside following them, Josh slammed the door in her face and put the dead bolt on.

43:28 So stunned, she knocked on the door and she yelled Josh. Josh opened the door. Boys, boys opened the door. She knocked, and she knocked, but the door was never opened, and at that point she could hear the boys crying, but she couldn't get inside. As all of this was going on, she realized that she was smelling a very strong smell of gasoline coming from the door. And you know, it takes time for her brain to comprehend everything that's going on. So she stepped back a few steps from the door, trying to understand what is going on, what could be happening, And then she says, oh my god, this is bad.

44:08 This is really bad, and she runs and she grabs her cell phone and she dials nine to one one. I'm gonna play you the full nine to one one call, and I'm playing it for a reason. I could have cut out the parts where the listener might feel like, you know, there's non essential information going back and forth, but I want you to hear it in its entirety. Okay, there's a reason. There's gonna be a beep too inside this audio. Just be prepared when the worker gives her when Elizabeth gives her phone number, so that long beep is in here on purpose, it's blocking out the number. Keep in mind the entire time that this call is happening. She is locked out of the house and Josh has the kids with no supervision.

44:49 Okay, hey, I'm on a hip. To get it and something really happened to keep going into the house and the parent good bye luck okay, And the same as Josh Powell will not let me in the door. What should I do? What? It's eight one one nine and I think it's eighty nine. I don't know what the address is. It's important for me to know, so I can't just let me get in my car and see if I can if I can find it. I'm this and nothing like this has ever happened before, uh these.

45:29 Visitations, So I'm really shocked. And I could hear. One of the kids crying that he still wouldn't let me in. Okay, it is uh one, oh. To Seneta, I have it here, it can't find me by GPS. Nope, okay, okay it is. I still can't find it, but I think I need help right away.

46:15 He's on a very short lease CFAES and. PSS then involved. And this is the craziest thing. He looked dry up me and closed the door. Are you there, yes, ma'am. I'm just waiting to know where you are. Okay, it's eight one one nine street or eat pure hour nine eight three seven five. And I'd like to pull out of the driveway because they smell gasoline. And he won't let me in. Do you want to pull out of the driveway because you smell gasoline? But he won't. He won't let me in. He won't let you out of the driveway. You won't let me in the house. It's in the house, and he won't let me in. It's a supervised is it?

46:56 I understand house? Is it? Josh Howe? Okay, so you don't live there, right? No, I don't know. I'm contracted to the state to provide supervised visitation. I say, okay. And and who is there to exercise their visitor? I am uh And the visiting with Josh Powell and against the husband that I supervised. So you supervised and you're doing the business? Yeah, I supervised s I supervised myself. I'm the supervisor. Here. Wait a minute, the supervise visit. You can't supervise yourself if you supervise myself. I'm the supervisor to the supervised visit.

47:38 Okay, Well, aren't you the one making aren't you the one making the visit, your supervisor. Yes, I'm the one that supervises. I picked up the kids. That's their grandparents. And then who visits with the children, Josh Powell. Okay, so you're supposed to be there to supervise Josh Powell's visit with the children. Ye, that's crap. And and here's the husband of missing Susan Powell. How did you know this is the high profile case? How did he how did he get that to the children before you talking? I was one step and back of them. Okay, I walked you out.

48:20 Yeah, he keeck the door right in my tape. Your last name, my name is Elizabeth Cripple Hall. Rit Hall is hypenated. Yeah. And what's your phone number, Elizabeth? And what do you can hear you with bust? You carry's first network? And the kids has been in there approx By now approximately?

49:08 And he knows that it's a supervised visit to Brandon is five and Charlie is seven. Is the dead last na Powell? P O W E L. L who well two ELSA Powel. Yes, his first name is Josh black white. And he's white. I don't know. He's about thirty nine for pall.

49:52 Five ten, one hundred and fifty pounds. Their color brown? Did you notice when he was wearing? No, I didn't notice when he was wearing. Did you loan or anybody? I don't know. If I couldn't get in the. House, why. Are you in a vehicle? Now we're on point. I'm in a vehicle. I'm gonna pres and I'm kickousand and ten three. Will tell the doors? What did he want?

50:33 He was and opened the door. I rang the doorbell and everything which I take him to. Let me end. Please listen to my questions. What color is the twitter prius pray? That pray? And the license number? I don't know. I can watch. Seven five zero of the m h. Vibra Marry Henry. Yeah, all right, we'll have company of. A p there. Okay, how long will it be? I don't know. Man. They have to respond to emergant fy like Brittany situation by the first available deputy.

51:15 Threatening her on Wednesday and he kicked. Back and they're alive. Okay, i'd be written the lie to the children previously. I have no idea. All right, we'll have the first available deputy contact you. Thank you, hie. Now that call was almost ten minutes long. And what I'm about to tell you, we'll explain while I wanted why I wanted you to hear the full call. When the boys went inside, Josh slammed the door and he locked it, and he had told those boys I have a surprise for you, and got them all excited. But remember that's when Elizabeth started hearing that crying through the door. Well, now I know why she heard crying. It's because the surprise was for Josh Powell to pull out a hatchet that he was hiding, and he began to do something unimaginable to those little boys. He began chopping them alive with the hatchet. He swung it, chopping at their heads and at their little necks, and he chopped on them until the kids were both unconscious and unable to do anything, and then he carried them into the living room. The whole time that that was going on, the social worker Elizabeth was on the phone making that phone call with

52:47 that condescending nine to one one operator who's acting as if she's overreacting, and as she's smelling the gasoline and looking for the address in her car. By the way, y'all, units should have been en route already Code three lights and sirens at this point, but they're not because he's condescending and he thinks that she's overreacting. And while that's going on, he has the time. He lays the boys wounded bodies on the carpet next to a bucket that he has seated there, and those little boys weren't dead. They were gravely injured, but they were both still alive. Josh then poured five gallons of gasoline all over the entry of the home and saturated the room that he and those boys were in, and near the bucket there was a gas can full of an additional ten gallons of gasoline. The phone call to nine one one ended about this time, and then the social worker decided to move her car to the road because she was unsure of what was going on, but having called the very people you're trained to call in an emergency, she expected the police to pull up any minute, and she watched the house, and desperately she would look down the street looking for a police car, but she wouldn't see one, and she'd look back at the house, and she was waiting, listening for sirens, listening for somebody that was coming to help these little boys. She has no clue what's happening behind that door. I want to tell y'all, she looks to be in her late fifties and early sixties. She

54:19 wasn't in a position to kick down a door, nor was she authorized to, by the way, So I do not want to villainize this woman. Please do not let that happen. She did all that she knew to do in the moment, but she stood there waiting in desperation for help that wasn't coming. And it was at this point that Joshua Powell sat down on top of that bucket, lit a match and dropped it. Boom. That whole house exploded into flames. Oh, maam, were you calling?

55:00 Ma'am? You know? Okay? Do you know the exact address of the house? Are you is there? One one one eight nine Courtney two hour? Okay? Camline? Do you know if anyone's in the house. Yes, there was a man, Eric's children. I just dropped off the children and he wouldn't let me in the door. Candline for the party department. Okay, I'm gonna get them on the line. Do not hang up full. Time on the phone. There was now. That's quirement, right, fire, the supposed that mes a chanceling the lady who.

55:44 Has an exact address of the house that is on fire there in the one eight equity's neighborhood. Yes, okay, I wouldn't gave amatic back to dress. I dropped it a sorry just a minute. I can't hear the fire. But they're not there yet. It's eight one out and. Nine there what we have an engine there and the people are saying, there's not somebody here. But I was just there and there is somebody here. There's two little boys in the house and there were there are five and seven, and there's an adult man and he has to provide visitation. And he bought the house and the kids.

56:29 The kids and the husband and the father were in the house. Yeah. Yeah, he slammed the door, and I say it, so I kept knocking. I thought it was a mistake. I kept knocking and then I called nine one one. You saw him go back into the house from the plane. Right before the plane. He didn't ever leave the house. He just opened the door. The kids were kids were one stat. They had a meet, five and seven they were one step. They had a meet, and he slammed the door in my face, and you think he might have done as intentionally. Yeah, okay, Donny, go ahead, Thank you very much. Fire man. What is your name? Please? I'm Alizabeth Griffin Hall and I'm the supervised Okay, just a.

57:14 Moment, ma'am. Okay, So you're lasting Driff and. What Griff and Hall? The R I F F I M hyphen hall A K L I and you're. Okay, where are you? Where are you at? Where are you at right now? I'm I'm the eight one, one twelve on the same court. Okay. So you're waiting down the street to eat one one two Nat? Yeah, okay, and in your car? I wasn't my god, I'm standing outside it right now. Okay. That's your your No, that's not my way. I was the supervis Codinato.

58:01 Yeah what. Josh Howell. Josh Powell had blown up the house himself and his two little boys, killing all three of them. I don't even have the words for the way that these calls went down. And I'm sure you're sitting here going what in the world. But Josh executed his evil plan because he had time to do so, and the condescension in that dispatcher's voice on that first nine one one call.

58:53 That was frustrating enough, but the number of times that she had to repeat herself over and over between the two the two calls is maddening. Fire and police would finally arrive at the scene, y'all, but it was just beyond too late. The children were dead. Exactly what the Coxes had voiced their concern about over and over and over again, it happened. They weren't exaggerating. There's poor people. This case has lived rent free in my head since it happened, and it's been a lot of years to lose your daughter tragically, believe to be at the hands of your own son in law, do everything you can to protect your grandbabies, the last living piece of your daughter, only to have to turn them over to the very man that you despise, where he then mortally wounds them both and then blows them up. The Coxes are victims in the biggest sense of the word at this point.

59:56 How could this have happened? They had promised those baby boys that everything would be okay, and y'all, it wouldn't. It wouldn't be okay. And while left to process what had happened and why. Some further truths were unveiled. It turns out that within five minutes of the home exploding, Josh's sister with no knowledge of the explosion. She didn't have any clue about that, but within five minutes of when that explosion took place, she had called nine to one one, But it had nothing to do with that explosion. She called because her brother had sent her an email that she described as disturbing and she feared what he might have done. Josh's attorney had also received an email, and it basically said this, I'm sorry, goodbye, and it was timestamped just minutes before that house blew up the weekend before the murders of his children. This was all planned out, and it had been planned out. He had taken all of his boy's toys to goodwill. He had gotten rid of all of his children's stuff. Now, why let's talk about it. The reason is simple. The boys knew too much and they were talking. They were drawing pictures and saying things in the way of complete innocence that only a child would But that was too risky for Josh. He knew that they would be his undoing.

1:01:29 And he also in that same instance, wanted to deprive the Coxes of having the boys. It was a power move. If he couldn't have them, then no one would. It's that simple. And to this day, to this very day, the day that I'm recording this right now, Susan Cox Powell's body has never been found. We never found Susan's body. The belief is that Josh, so I'm a sum it up for you, he puts something in those pancakes that he served Susan and her friend while they were crocheting back in episode one. Remember I told you he made everyone's plate separate, and he cooked every pancake separate. She began feeling really sick shortly thereafter, and that's when her friend left and Josh supposedly went sledding with the boys, but he returned home where he murdered Susan. Whatever he burned to smithereens that again I mentioned in the first episode.

1:02:32 I believe that was the murder weapon that he struck her with. It's something metal, that's all that's known, and they were never able to identify what it was. But per a search warrant, they did find blood in Susan's house and guess where it was. It was right next to the sofa where I believe that she was laying down to have a rest after she started feeling bad. So it just it makes too much much sense. After he killed her, he loaded her body into the trunk of the van, and then he put the boys in And in my mind I see her laying in the back of the van and the boys seeing it, cause you know, kids will jump up and look and all that.

1:03:16 Try hiding Christmas presents and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about in the back of your car. But they saw her back there, and so Josh told him that she was napping or something to that effect. Don't bother mama, let her sleep. And then when he got out into the wilderness, he set up camp. He let the boys be busy with some ores, and he carried Susan's body out and he dumped her down a mind shaft. He then returned home, feigning knowing nothing about the fact that Susan was missing. And then he was willing to let his father run his mouth about his infatuation with his wife because it took the heat off of him while also satisfying some perverse need in Stephen Powell's mind my personal opinion, allegedly and for entertainment purposes only of however, this is not about entertainment. My personal opinion is I think that Josh was abusing those boys, or he was ramping up to do so. And I based this off of those images of incest that he was so intrigued with.

1:04:13 That's incest implies your own. No one fantasizes. I mean, I just don't see him fantasizing about someone else's incest. So I really do think that those children were in absolute danger with him. Susan Powell loved her boys and she was scared of Josh. I think she knew something. Maybe she couldn't put her finger on it exactly, but she knew something was very, very wrong with Josh. She wanted out, and she wanted her babies to go with her. She was scared enough to make a video and write a letter that if something happens to me, it wasn't an accident. Susan knew that something was way wrong. Josh realized that the evidence was mounting and that he would not only be exposed as a murderer, so a pedophile, and so he did what he had to do somehow to preserve his own image while simultaneously trying to play the victim in all of this. My wife is missing. No, josh you killed her. The Coxes are harassing me, and my kids know. They know you killed their daughter. They can't prove it, but they know it. And now they are justifiably worried about her children in your care. My children have been taken away from me. No, you're a pervert and they're trying to be protected. And I'm he sends a thing an email, I'm sorry for everyone I hurt. No, you're not. No, you are not. You're sorry. You've been exposed.

1:05:41 A matter of fact, to put this stoft with, You're sorry. You never mentioned Susan in your emails, your missing wife, You never mentioned your children that you just hacked up and blew up and killed. You're not sorry at all. You're not a victim. You're an e selfish, perverted snake. Joshua Powell, that is what you are. And I figured you'd want a little bit more info on some of the people who played a role in this case and what happened to them after the children were murdered. So I'm gonna tie it up for you in a pretty bowt real quick. What happened to all these people? I want to start with Stephen Powell. He was eventually released from prison after serving his time, and he died about a year later after release at a Tacoma hospital as a result of heart problems. Go figure, that's ironic. Josh's brother Michael Powell, whom I have not even mentioned in the episode, he was part of this case because the police would later reveal that they believed that Michael Powell helped his brother Josh dispose of Susan's body. Now, in the child interviews, Charlie said, John knows, but I'm thinking it was actually his uncle Michael that did, and maybe he just construed the two. I say this also with my chest, because what if I told you Michael committed

1:07:12 suicide about a year after Josh killed himself and the boys. I don't think it's coincidence either that after Michael committed suicide, the police officially closed the case in twenty thirteen because they didn't have any more leads and they didn't have any more suspects that were alive. The social worker Elizabeth she was cleared of any wrongdoing and I agree with this finding rules and regulations obviously would have to be visited and updated, and we will learn from this as far as everything how it played out. But in terms of her being inept or negligent, they didn't find that she was, and I don't either. I think it's unfortunate that she wasn't able to do more, but I don't find neglect was the issue here. That dispatcher the condescending first call. That dispatcher's name was David Lovrak, and he was reprimanded for the way he handled the call. The main issues it took eight minutes for him to send a police car, and it took an additional thirteen minutes for that police car to even get to the Powell's home, which if you look at the timeline, basically gave Josh the time to commit the vile acts. That dispatcher was confused, and at first he was thinking that Elizabeth was the mother of the children, and so his assumption that she was their mom just upset about a custodial dispute also contributed with him missing those obvious red flags. He was

1:08:43 also told it was completely inappropriate to be contentious and say you can't supervise yourself, which is one thing he told Elizabeth in that call. And he was also professionally criticized for responding to Elizabeth's question of how long will it be with that answer of I don't know, ma'am. And they have to respond to emergencies, life threatening situations first. That didn't age well. So overall his performance was lacking, but did not meet the muster of criminal and so the discipline that he received was corrective, not punitive, but he was checked on it. The Coxes also would file a lawsuit against the State of Washington and Social Services for the wrongful death of their grandchildren, and when it was all said and done, they ultimately won a verdict of ninety eight and a half million dollars. And I was happy for them to finally be acknowledged that they have been so wronged by I guess i'll say, quote unquote the system in this case. But incredibly, in twenty twenty, a Pierce County Superior Court judge named Stanley Rumball, he reduced the wrongful death award by two thirds, dropping it down to thirty two point eight million dollars. The reason I know that's a lot of money, either way. But the Coxes had plans to use these funds to help other prevent other tragedies, and this was a blow to that when in their minds that they could some good

1:10:14 could come out of this in some weird way for them. But I am happy to report to you that the Washington Court of Appeals recently agreed with the Coxes that the original verdict was supported. The evidence did show exactly what they said, and they reinstated the original award value that they were supposed to get. Hopefully, with this they're able to help others for a long time, and that the loss of their beautiful daughter and their precious grandsons wasn't in vain. Something good could come from this. Our system is flawed, and y'all we all know this, but the actions of Joshua Powell are all his fault. Our reactions and our failure to respond effectively in this case isn't lost on me. But ultimately Joshua Powell is to blame for one hundred percent of what happened. So the moral of the story here is anyone is capable of anything on any day. Failing to believe the red flags is never a good idea. And when we don't act swiftly, innocent people will always pay the price. My prayers are that Susan was there waiting on her knees with her arms wide open as her two baby boys ran into her arms at the gates of Heaven. I know that that had to be a reunification that only God himself saw, but I just feel it in my soul that that's what she got her ultimate reward. She got to be

1:11:46 back with her babies again. And as for Josh and his dad, I can only assume that Satan welcomed them right in as well. And I'll just be frank Their absence from this world doesn't bother me in the slightest at all. And I'm not one to dance on graves, but I'm not above tapping my feet a little