June 16, 2026

Part 4 | Bullet in the Brain: The Shocking Ryan Waller Case

Part 4 | Bullet in the Brain: The Shocking Ryan Waller Case

Part 4 OF 4 On Christmas Day 2006, 18-year-old Ryan Waller and his girlfriend Heather Quan became victims of a brutal home invasion in Phoenix, Arizona. Heather was murdered. Ryan was shot twice in the head and somehow survived — with bullet fragments...

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Season 10
Part 4 OF 4
On Christmas Day 2006, 18-year-old Ryan Waller and his girlfriend Heather Quan became victims of a brutal home invasion in Phoenix, Arizona. Heather was murdered. Ryan was shot twice in the head and somehow survived — with bullet fragments still lodged deep in his brain. What followed was one of the most controversial police interrogations ever recorded. Despite his severe injuries, Ryan was questioned for several hours before receiving full medical treatment.

The footage of that interview, in which he appears disoriented and struggling to stay conscious, has since become one of the most talked-about moments in true-crime history. In this episode, KJ examines the interrogation video, the investigation that followed, the search for the real perpetrators, and the long-term impact the events had on Ryan’s life. It’s a powerful story of the most unforgettable cases in modern true crime.

Timestamps
02:17 Richie Behind Bars
13:07 Heather’s Law Emerges
25:35 Larry’s Jail Interview
42:44 Larry Convicted Again
51:47 Timing the Crime Scene
1:01:49 Lawsuit Claims Unraveled
1:21:04 Ryan’s Death Reexamined
1:32:50 The Case Gets Misremembered

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable.

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Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended,

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then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all,

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kJ you're back with the final portion of this Ryan

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Waller series.

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I know some of y'all been emailing me, Kelly, why

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didn't you tell me? Why didn't you tell me?

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It was multiple parts, y'all.

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I didn't know. I did not know.

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Honestly thought I was gonna jump in this series and

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it was gonna be one episode and I would tell

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you everything. But the more I dug, the more I researched,

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the more records requests I did, the more I was realizing.

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And so it's a testament. I would say to the

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fact that I want to get it right, and I

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want to give you everything that I possibly can so apologies,

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apologies that I didn't know how many parts it would be.

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I would tell you if I had known, and I'm

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not pre recorded that much in advance to be able

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to tell you. So that's the truth. And I hope

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that what I give you today wraps it all up

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in a pretty bow and you leave this series being

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more educated on the topic of the case than otherwise

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you would have you would have been, so all right,

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know that this is the final one in this series.

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It will not go after this one, and this is

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going to still be a gem packed episode with I

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bet you didn't no information.

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Okay, I'm not stalling you.

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I just this is crazy. You may not care about this,

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but I don't want you to know. It's not a script.

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I mean, it's my notes on everything that I've been taken.

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Do you know that this is twenty three pages typed

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twelve point font That's how much information I'm giving you

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today in this episode. So let's get ready. Now where

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we left off last episode, Richie was convicted and he

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was sent off to prison for the rest of his life,

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and now is where I want to inform you on

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what his behavior behind bars looked like, because it really

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does seem to mimic his behavior before incarceration. So I

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looked up his record and I found that he still

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likes drugs, he still likes fighting, and he still likes

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not listening. What do you know, You know, people don't

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change their colors just because they get caught. You know,

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everything that he claims he didn't do, he's continuing to

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do while he's behind bars. So this record is going

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from two thousand and three all the way through twenty

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twenty four, and these are the infractions. He was written

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up for disobeying orders, threatening or intimidating others, possession or

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manufacture of intoxicating substance. Then he got another possession or

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manufacture of intoxicating substances, fighting one, fighting two, fighting three,

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promoting prison contraband, and possession of drugs or narcotics. Okay,

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on every one of these cases, they're not really cases.

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When people are behind bars and they get written up,

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they still have to go before a board. When I

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did this, you know, it was the disciplinary board was me.

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I was classification in prison, and then there would be

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a ranking officer, like a higher than a lieutenant usually,

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but anyway we come together. We would read the report,

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they would get to come in and defend themselves or

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try to explain what happened, and then there would be

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an outcome, and then there would be punishment. On every

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one of these instances that Richie was disciplined for, he

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was found guilty. So some of them said uphold, So

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I don't know necessarily if that meant. I don't know

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if that necessarily meant that he had already gotten in

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trouble for something and then they were just doing a

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hearing for it. But either way, none of them was

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he found not guilty. So he's doing the same behavior

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behind bars that he was doing outside in the free world.

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And I just it matters, guys. People don't People don't change. Okay,

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people may update, they may better themselves, or they may

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worsen themselves over time, but like the foundation of an

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adult doesn't seem to change. And this is over twenty

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four or twenty three, twenty one years that he's been

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in and out of the prison system for various things

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until he was finally put in for this, for these

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this murder and this attempted murder. But all of these

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mimic how he acted on the outside. That said Richie's

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sitting tight in prison. But Old Dad's case, remember, it

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was dismissed after it fell apart due to his wife,

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Cheryl refusing to cooperate and testify to what she had

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told police. When she was compelled, however, to take the stand,

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they said, no, you're gonna come and you're gonna take

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the stand, and you're gonna tell us what you told police.

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She testified in court that she didn't remember telling police anything.

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She didn't remember any of it. Well, guess what that was.

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Okay, that's fine.

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Cheryl, because they could just play the recording, right, the

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police recorded this conversation.

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They're not dumb. So there it is.

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There, it is in coming out of her own mouth

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what exactly she had said to police. So whenever that

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is brought up, Cheryl then says, well, I lied. None

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of it's true. I lied. I lied because I wanted

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to see Larry go to prison so I could get

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rid of him.

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That is how Cheryl spun that. So which one's true, Cheryl?

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Which one is it? At this point? Is it any

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of them?

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Is it both of them? What's going on? Because even

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her best friend, if you remember in the last episode,

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her best friend was there when this conversation took place.

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Her name was Brenda. She was there for the conversation.

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And we know this because Brenda also spoke in that recording. Okay,

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so we know she's there. It's not it's not up

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for debate or question. But yet Cheryl can't remember it.

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You can't remember what happened because Brenda, her friend, remembered

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it just fine, as did the police who recorded the statements. Okay,

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So the courts found it obvious that Cheryl was lying,

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and so what they did is, since Cheryl wants to

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lie and not tell the truth, they ruled that Brenda

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could also be brought in to testify to the conversation

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because she was there. It was a good it was

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a good decision on behalf of the courts. So what

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do you think is more likely? And I want to

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pose this question to you because as a listener, okay,

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I feel like you have an obligation to think. Don't

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just take what I say for you know, just one

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hundred percent fact.

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I mean, you're you're a human being.

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Think, Okay, tell me what you think. I want to

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pose this question, what do you think is more likely?

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A woman who was battered and abused by both her

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son and her husband was afraid of them, so she

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conveniently quote unquote forgot everything that was said. Or do

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you think that she was just a liar who made

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up everything, even though what she allegedly made up aligned perfectly,

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not only with the evidence at the scene, including the

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caliber of weapon that was used, that there were two people,

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that the wounds matched, the story, and everyone else's timelines

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that were interviewed about this matched with what she said,

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but she lied. You need to make that decision. Do

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you think that it's a battered woman who was abused

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who's changing her story because her husband was cut loose

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okay and is out free and made do something to her,

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Or she just lied even though it happens to just

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conveniently line up with what everyone else is saying that

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was there or or had some kind of role in

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the story. You decide. I don't want to tell you

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what to think, but I've even heard based on those

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two questions, I have heard multiple moronic people state in

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other shows about this case that it's the police who

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must have convinced her to change her timeline her being Cheryl,

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it was the police that must have convinced Cheryl to

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change her timeline to fit their account of things. I'm

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gonna address this more in depth later, but like, what

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what is going on? What is going on with people

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who are covering these stories or saying they're covering these

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stories that we've now jumped at this conclusion the police

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must have influenced Cheryl to change her timeline and then

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lie on the stand. Is is that really what we're doing.

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I'll challenge you, go listen to other people tell this story. Please,

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I'm begging you. I'm not going to tell you where

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to go. I want you to go figure it out.

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Go listen to it. Tell me if what I have

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told you so far aligns in any way with in

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terms of detail and giving you the whole perspective here.

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See if it aligns. Listen to their outcomes in their cases,

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and it shouldn't leave you scratching your head. Maybe not,

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but it did me. Those same people that are telling

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this story and claiming to agree that the police must

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have somehow affected this timeline for their own gain, okay,

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seem to not know that Brenda was there. Brenda was there.

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They never bring her up. Cheryl went to Brenda before

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the police with what happened, so be so for real

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people like, damn you think that that Brenda's in on

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it too, now that there's a whole ass conspiracy that

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some woman is also now in on it and pre

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determined that they would fake timeline, Like think this through,

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really think this three. The thing is this, even with

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Brenda now coming forward or being told to come forward

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in to testify, even though she testified to the truth

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of what really went down, the prosecution was in a

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bind with Cheryl because they couldn't force her to testify correctly.

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They couldn't force her. I mean, what are they gonna do.

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She wants to lie, She's gonna lie on the stand.

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But she had a protection that they couldn't charge her,

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you know, with with lying to the courts or anything

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like that. And this was due to the spousal immunity

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laws that were in place. So if you I don't

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want to make this a law you know, a law

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episode here. But the fact is this, Cheryl could legally

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refuse to speak on Larry or to testify about what

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was going on, and there is nothing they could do

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about it because she was legally his spouse. Now I'm

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not giving legal advice here. I'm not an attorney, so

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I can't do that anyway. But this is just a

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quick general explanation about spousal immunity laws. Okay, And sometimes

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you'll hear people refer to this as spousal privilege, but

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basically it is a protection of married couples from being

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forced to testify against one another in court with regard

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to conversations that were held in private.

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All right, so you're like, well, what, well think about it.

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I mean, haven't you had private conversations with your spouse

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if you're married, or even if you're in a relationship,

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that that's y'all's private life, that you're talking about things together.

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And if you still loved your spouse and they're like, nope,

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you have to get up here and talk about these conversations,

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it would put that it would put that spouse in

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a really bad position, because even if you're even if

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you're a loved one, or your or your spouse didn't

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do anything wrong, you being compelled to get up there

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and truthfully have to talk about conversations that might even

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shed them in a bad light. That could mess up

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your marriage, you know, to some extent. But here's the key.

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It's not that simple, okay, because the rules vary by jurisdiction.

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But what exactly is protected? Okay, So just to give

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you a little bit more information, if you're married, you

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might want to know this, okay, the witness spouse, so

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not the person on the stand, okay, the or not

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the person that's.

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Being charged with something.

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The witness spouse is protected, meaning they can voluntarily testify

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if they choose to, but they cannot be forced under

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this law. And overall, this protection ends if the couple divorces,

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though it covers events that occurred during the marriage. So

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if you were married and you don't have to testify

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or say anything about those private conversations, but once y'all divorce,

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any conversations after that, you're not protected by this law.

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00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:55.159
But there are some obvious exceptions to the law, like

229
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.120
crimes against the spouse, or if there were crimes against

230
00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.279
a child, or if both spouse says commit the same

231
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.480
crime together, that doesn't count here, Okay, it's in these

232
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:08.960
specific circumstances that I just mentioned before. Well, there was

233
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.840
a family out there who took great offense to this

234
00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:19.679
spousal privileged privileged law, mainly because it was seemingly the

235
00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:25.159
very reason that their child's killer was walking free with

236
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:26.360
no accountability.

237
00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.399
And who do you think that family was think?

238
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:37.679
Because that family was a very low publicity family, but

239
00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.519
they were very much determined that they were going to

240
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.240
have to fight this, and that family was the family

241
00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:49.600
of Heather Kwan. Remember, Ryan's not the only victim here.

242
00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:55.440
Heather is dead, gone, never to speak again. So when

243
00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.360
they hear this information about Cheryl, they're like, what do

244
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:03.360
you mean? Larry Carver told his wife exactly what he did,

245
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.679
which basically led the investigation to be solved. But because

246
00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.240
his wife is refusing now to admit to what she

247
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.159
already said on tape recorded verified by a friend, he

248
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.159
now gets to walk free. How is that fair? The

249
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.840
law is working against the victim in this case. The

250
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.519
law was not intended for this reason, and thus Heather

251
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:30.200
Kwan's family immediately got to work with their local legislators

252
00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:35.039
to remedy this. So generally it's now referred to as

253
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:40.399
Heather's Law. Okay, but wording was added to this law

254
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:43.679
to adjust the spousal immunity law because of the hard

255
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.360
work and dedication of the Quan family. In conjunction with

256
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:51.080
their legislators. So basically the spousal immunity law stayed the same,

257
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.360
except for one major addition, which now adds that a

258
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.799
spouse cannot be compelled to testify against the other on

259
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.919
less Okay, and this is where the big change came in.

260
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.000
And this is the exact wording. I copied and pasted

261
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.200
it so I could read it to you unless a

262
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.840
spouse makes a voluntary statement to a law enforcement officer

263
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:14.840
during an investigation of the offense or offenses about the

264
00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:18.559
events that gave rise to the prosecution, or about any

265
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.639
statements made to the spouse by the other spouse about

266
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.840
those events. So, in essence, this change that they fought

267
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:32.120
for removed someone someone's ability to do exactly what Cheryl

268
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:37.200
was doing. It's my personal opinion that Cheryl was acting

269
00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:42.240
this way out of fear. I don't think this was

270
00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:46.480
about protecting Larry. I think this was about protecting herself. Obviously,

271
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.440
I don't know these people personally, and I wasn't at

272
00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.000
the trial, but my spidey senses feel that that was

273
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:56.799
the case. Okay, but of course there's always more to it.

274
00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:01.480
This is a direct quote from Brent Duh when she

275
00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:06.399
was interviewed about Cheryl a year prior to ever being

276
00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:09.279
compelled to testify. Okay, a year before she was ever

277
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.519
told you're gonna have to testify. This is what she

278
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.960
said when asked if Cheryl had expressed to Brenda that

279
00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.240
she was scared about telling police.

280
00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.039
What she knew. This is a direct quote from that interview.

281
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.720
Quote. Sure, the day that she actually told me about it.

282
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.559
That was the whole thing, was that Larry would what

283
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:32.399
Larry would do to her and what connections he had

284
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.639
and to the people that would hurt her. And that's

285
00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.200
why she, you know, hit at my house until he

286
00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:43.120
was arrested, and then she was just she left town

287
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.240
because she was afraid of what was going to happen

288
00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:50.519
to her. So the conversation then, uh continues forward and

289
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.720
again I'm directly quoting miss Brenda here she says, well,

290
00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:56.879
she changed her mind a few times.

291
00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:57.840
And this is talking.

292
00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:02.799
About in in relation to the fact that after Cheryl

293
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.960
told the police initially everything that Larry had said to her,

294
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.359
they were asking Brenda, what did Brenda say to you

295
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.799
that she would she would do in the future. You know,

296
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:17.960
she was called to have to talk about this or whatever.

297
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.359
So here's her quoted response to that question. Well, she

298
00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.680
changed her mind a few times. First, she just knew

299
00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:27.839
it was the right thing to do to tell that

300
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.640
Larry and Richie had been involved in a killing. Then

301
00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.920
she kind of she just she took off and moved

302
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:40.119
up to Wyoming or my Montana, no Wyoming, and into

303
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.119
that she was just gonna wash her hands of all

304
00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.119
of this and walk away from it, which I felt, again,

305
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.480
you know, is leaving me deep, deep in shit. She

306
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.119
brought to my house and uh then she even you know,

307
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:57.319
her anti law, anti authority part kicked in and started

308
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.920
doing the you know, so they can't force me to testify.

309
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.440
And again she was just gonna wash her hands of it.

310
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.039
And then now she's come back with the idea that

311
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.759
she can well, Richie's young enough and he can still

312
00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:14.240
be saved. And I still don't think that she's sure

313
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.680
she's going to testify against Larry.

314
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.640
End quote.

315
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.160
So what you're seeing here in this follow up interview

316
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:27.359
with Brenda is that Cheryl was now having to rethink

317
00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.400
doing the right thing and telling the police what happened

318
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:31.119
because she's.

319
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.240
Afraid of Larry.

320
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:35.079
She's very afraid of Larry, and I wanted to give

321
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:38.599
you these parts of these interviews because it'll give you

322
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.480
more insight to what Cheryl was all about, flip flopping

323
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.839
back and forth. She also thought, I guess as a

324
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.599
mother that she could save Richie, and that's why she

325
00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.440
lied on the stand. The more you know, the more

326
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.759
you understand how all of this played out. But it

327
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:58.880
takes a lot of research and time to look at

328
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:03.039
all of this. So with Heather Kwan's family like a

329
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.640
steady machine behind the proposed law changes, Heather's Law officially

330
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.920
went into effect and was signed by the governor on

331
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.279
July thirteenth, two thousand and nine, which was just about

332
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.400
a year after Richie was convicted. But guess what, the

333
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.680
police and prosecutors weren't done yet, no freaking way. They

334
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.480
knew that Larry needed to be held accountable for what

335
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:30.400
he had done with his son Richie. To Heather as

336
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.880
well as to Ryan, it's not right that he is

337
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.279
walking free. So with this new law change, at the

338
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.440
expense of the Kwan's, you know, they had to lose

339
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.880
their daughter for this to become a reality in terms

340
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:46.119
of the law. The police now wanted to charge Larry again,

341
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.480
but this would become another huge legal battle. Could The

342
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.000
main question here was could the new law be applied

343
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.559
retroactively against Larry Carver. A lot of people don't think

344
00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.240
about that. I'm gonna save you all the court drama though,

345
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.400
because this was a very slow and tedious process, But

346
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.839
I'm gonna let you know that the courts would rule

347
00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.559
in favor of the state on this one. And because

348
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.440
of that, Larry Carver was indicted on November of twenty eleven.

349
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.960
Now his charges were first degree murder, attempted first degree murder, burglary,

350
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:24.480
and aggravated assault. But now police had to go again

351
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:29.359
and hunt Larry down well. In the meantime, Cheryl's friend

352
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:35.559
Brenda was now scared for her life, telling people, look,

353
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.440
I may have to move. I'm now gonna have to move.

354
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.079
I mean you heard her say, I'm knee deep in

355
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:43.000
this shit, and then Cheryl moved. Now I'm square in

356
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.279
the middle of it, just because I was friends with Cheryl.

357
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.960
So she was terrified thinking she might have to get

358
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.319
out of Helm now investigators in the meantime, they had

359
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.440
also tracked down a friend of Larry's, and this guy's

360
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.720
name was Pete. Pete was believed to have discussed the

361
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.119
murder or an attempted murder with Larry. But this was

362
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.000
after it happened, Okay, not like he knew ahead of time,

363
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.319
after it happened. I'm not sure exactly the details around

364
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.039
these two guys talking, but they followed a lead that.

365
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:14.920
This had happened.

366
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:21.160
So when investigators confronted Pete about this and wanted to

367
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.079
ask him questions, Pete immediately shut down and became defensive

368
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.880
just from the jump. The police said, look, we really

369
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.559
need you to help us out here and give us

370
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.200
this information, and you may be called to testify to

371
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.279
this conversation, so it's important that you talk to us.

372
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.279
And his response to the police was well, then you

373
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:49.000
can lose my number and he hung up the phone.

374
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.720
So it looks to me like Pete was scared too.

375
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.680
He didn't want anything to do with it. So regardless

376
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.000
of the witness's refusals to cooperate, police still went to

377
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.720
go get Larry. It was November fourteenth of twenty eleven,

378
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.000
just days after the courts ruled and he was reindicted,

379
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:10.839
So they were going to take no time. They were

380
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.519
going to waste no time rather getting him off of

381
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:16.000
the streets, but it would take them an additional five

382
00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:20.839
days to locate him, and once they got good intel

383
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.559
on where they thought he was, they set up to

384
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:28.319
surveil him at his apartment complex. They would sit and

385
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:33.839
they would wait for two days, just watching. But Larry

386
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:39.519
was never seen, He never came out, he never went in. Nothing.

387
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:46.319
Two days of just watching nothing. But on the nineteenth

388
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:49.640
an officer saw him and alerted the team, who all

389
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.400
responded very much under the radar to go get him.

390
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:57.079
Their goal here was that this had to be much

391
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.640
better planned than beforehand, So to get him out of

392
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:04.240
his element was the goal, but to not raise suspicion.

393
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.799
So Larry was contacted with a ruse. He was told

394
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:13.480
that his vehicle had been involved in a collision basically

395
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:18.240
out in the apartment complex parking lot. So whether Larry

396
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.240
knew that he was re indicted or not, I'm just

397
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.279
going to tell you, I'm not certain at this point.

398
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:28.240
But police didn't necessarily think that he knew. But also

399
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.160
if he did, he would know that he was cooked

400
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:33.759
and he may want to start a shootout or something

401
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:35.680
like that, because this is a very very dangerous guy, right,

402
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:41.119
So this extreme caution was further confirmed necessary too, because

403
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.240
police had spoken to the apartment leasing agent and that

404
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.519
agent had told them, look, I saw Larry and he

405
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.119
has a gun on him. So this is not a joke.

406
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.480
Going to take this guy in custody. So minimizing risk

407
00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:59.559
starts with removing a suspect from their comfort zone, which

408
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:01.119
would have been his apartment. They don't want to go

409
00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:03.319
in there. They'd rather pull him out. So that's why

410
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.240
he was told, look, there was this collision and we

411
00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:08.359
need you to come outside. It wasn't the police that

412
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:10.319
did this. I think it was the apartment leasing agent

413
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:12.240
that police told, I need you to call him and

414
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:13.799
say that his car is involved in an incident.

415
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:14.759
Okay, so.

416
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.640
You know he's told, hey, your car's been hit by

417
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.000
somebody while it was parked. It was about three point

418
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.519
fifty in the afternoon when lo and behold, here comes

419
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.839
Larry Carver and he begins walking out of the gate

420
00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:31.079
of the complex towards his vehicle. Well, there was a

421
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:35.200
police team in a van nearby, and they quickly approached

422
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.000
right pull up behind him, and as they slide open

423
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.160
that door, they threw out an already primed flash bang

424
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.839
which exploded and it gave police the jump on grabbing

425
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:50.680
the unsuspecting Larry, but in the smoke, Larry's response wasn't

426
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:52.440
clearly seen. It was a lot of smoke. Did he

427
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:53.240
grab his gun?

428
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.759
Did he not? Well, guys, never fear.

429
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:02.599
Because Rocky was here, four legged police companion who came

430
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.759
bolting out of that van and jumped on Larry, biting

431
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:09.799
his leg like only the goodest of boys would do,

432
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:13.759
and holding Larry before he could get away. It was

433
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.240
a good call on Rocky's part too, because Larry was

434
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:20.359
pissed when he realized what was up. But police were

435
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:22.599
able to secure Larry, get him on his stomach, and

436
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.440
once they were able to get his hands.

437
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:25.359
Rocky let go.

438
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.119
Who's a good boy, y'all?

439
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:28.480
Rocky's a good boy.

440
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:31.920
Larry was then transported to the hospital and treated for

441
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.799
this bite wound before he was brought to jail and

442
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.720
booked in. But now it was time to talk. What

443
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.559
would Larry have to say about all of this? Because

444
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.640
Larry would have to be interviewed again in jail. But

445
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:47.680
I need you to recognize that it had been nearly

446
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:52.359
five years now since his last interview with police. A

447
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.200
lot of time had passed. I mean, hell, we had

448
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.240
time to pass a law so that he could even

449
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.519
be arrested. Now, I want you to know I did

450
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:03.519
read the entire interview transcript or read every word of it,

451
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.680
but I'm gonna summarize it for you because you don't

452
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.920
need to be read to. But from the jump, Larry

453
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.160
maintained that he had nothing to do with the shootings.

454
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.440
But he did say some things that I, as a

455
00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:18.559
person trying to learn about this case, couldn't help but

456
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.400
pick up one. First of all, he now says that

457
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.160
Cheryl and he had not been speaking when the shootings

458
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.839
occurred because she had cheated on him. His point was

459
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.119
that she was obviously lying whenever she was trying to

460
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.720
and trying to set him up whenever she called the

461
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.200
police because they weren't getting along. There was an issue

462
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.640
with this that I took. Later on in the interview,

463
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.680
he mentioned, yeah, well I took Cheryl's PT Cruiser to

464
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.680
California to visit my mom. Y'all know that whole bit,

465
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.960
because I've already covered that. So the question in my

466
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.880
mind became, wait a minute, why would a woman who

467
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.799
hates you so much be willing to lie on you

468
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:03.359
about a murder. That's how angry she is. Why would

469
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.960
she then allow you to take her car on a

470
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:12.599
vacation without her? Also, if that's even the case, why

471
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.319
did you return two days later and have Christmas brunch

472
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.440
together with her? That's how much she hates you that

473
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:21.079
y'all then go to Christmas, she gives you her car

474
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:22.720
and loans it, and then y'all go to lunch two

475
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:25.400
days later. I guess he kind of forgot those facts

476
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.720
over the last five years, but there it wasn't black

477
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:30.680
and white. While I'm reading this, he also said this.

478
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:37.839
He said he and Richie never spoke about the shootings together. Never. Never, Okay,

479
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.200
And I want you to hear me when I say

480
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.680
they never spoke about it. But this is the thing.

481
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:47.279
Law enforcement keeps records, okay, and I can read. And

482
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.039
this includes the fact that what if I told you

483
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:57.039
Larry and Richie were housed together for three full months

484
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:03.359
literally in the same pod before trial. So do you

485
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.000
think that they never spoke about it? Do you think

486
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:09.440
that they're both in prison for the same shit and

487
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.680
they never spoke about it. No, we didn't talk about that.

488
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.440
We talked about everything else. But the reason we're here

489
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:21.680
do you think that their stories now a line and

490
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:24.720
neither of them were there the day of the shooting.

491
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.200
You think that all of that happened and they never

492
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.240
spoke about it, but all of a sudden, now they

493
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.880
kind of have the same story. That's what we're gonna believe. Okay,

494
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.359
all right, great, Well, he originally said, he being Larry,

495
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.359
that he went to get their stuff after Richie was.

496
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.920
Kicked out, including the iguana.

497
00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:46.119
You already know that, right, But I've already told you

498
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:47.759
the iguana was already dead.

499
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.240
We already know this.

500
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:54.359
But now five years later, he says in that interview,

501
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:58.079
come on, man, that's bullshit. The iguana wasn't dead. Iguanas

502
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:01.759
love water and they don't drown. Well, I happen to

503
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.880
be an animal lover. I'm sure that I have listeners

504
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.759
out there that have iguanas. But if you don't want,

505
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:10.519
I want to just notate something to you. Something I

506
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.400
know about iguanas is that they have to be in

507
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:18.519
water that is, on average eighty three degrees plus to

508
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.279
quote unquote thrive. Okay, they need that water to be warm.

509
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.799
Let's just assess what Larry is saying. The shootings took

510
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:30.480
place in December. Remember it was in the end of

511
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.599
December when all of this happened, So I looked it up.

512
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.559
I was just curious about the weather where this happened.

513
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.000
The high, the average high sixty five degrees to sixty

514
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.960
seven degrees, the average low forty four to forty five degrees.

515
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.720
So matter of fact, the record high was set in

516
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.440
nineteen twenty six and that was eighty three degrees. Okay,

517
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.559
So my point to this is that that iguana absolutely

518
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:01.799
would not have thrived in a pool, especially if water

519
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.160
levels were low. He couldn't get out and he was

520
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:08.039
swimming around in freezing cold water. Okay, that's just logic.

521
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:14.920
So nevertheless, they need access to air. Okay. Iguanas have

522
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.440
to have access to air because if they are prolonged

523
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:24.000
in submersion, they are prone to drowning, especially in cold temperatures.

524
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:30.119
Another thing Larry was adamant adamant in this interview that

525
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.359
Richie would have never hurt a girl. Never, My son

526
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.680
would never do that. Everyone knows that too, he said.

527
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.119
Everyone knows that you don't go around hitting and hurting girls.

528
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:47.839
You defend them, except at this point, I guess and

529
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.440
their own domestic Violet situations that have been documented in

530
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:57.359
the past, those must not count, I guess, because when

531
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:01.440
Richie almost broke his own mom's arm, did that not count?

532
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:06.880
When Richie beat up his own sisters, did that not count?

533
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.160
Are you sure that Richie just knows you don't beat

534
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.400
up on girls and that you don't hurt women, because

535
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:18.319
that kind of seems to uh contradict that. So as

536
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:20.480
I'm sure you can guess at this point, Larry would

537
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.000
eventually go to trial again for everything that took place.

538
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.200
But this is where my podcast is about to go

539
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:34.960
into a direct contradiction to everything I have ever read

540
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:39.839
or ever heard about this case, Okay, And this is

541
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.640
where shit's about to get deep. So if you prefer

542
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:47.880
feelings over the facts, I'm just warning you right now,

543
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:51.799
your feelings are going to get hurt. Okay. So if

544
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.599
that is not something that you can deal with, And

545
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.039
if you like the story the way it's been shared

546
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.480
in multiple uh you know, stories and and news headlines

547
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:03.559
and everything over the last twenty years, then now's the

548
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:05.279
time to cut it off. Cut the show off. If

549
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.200
you want to believe everything that's been said, please cut

550
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.359
it off and just live.

551
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.160
In that fantasy world.

552
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.240
That's fine, okay, because I still have tons to go here.

553
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.640
So when the trial date was set for December the tenth,

554
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.920
obviously key witnesses would need to be called to testify,

555
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:31.720
and this would include Ryan. Now, everything I knew, or

556
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:34.759
I thought that I knew up to this point, was

557
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.920
that Ryan's life was directly altered as a result of

558
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.359
his brain injury. His dad had even said that he

559
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:44.920
was dependent on people for the rest of his life

560
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:50.359
and he required lots of care. I always, I guess,

561
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:52.960
assumed that to be and I'll be honest, I honestly,

562
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:56.160
honestly assumed that to mean that he was very simple

563
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:00.160
after his brain injury, that he almost, I don't want

564
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:03.240
to say, reverted to a childlike state, but he was

565
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.759
not on the same cognitive level that he used to be,

566
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.920
and if he needed care for the rest of his life,

567
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.319
then that kind of is why I thought that. Well,

568
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:18.359
I was going through the paperwork and there was an

569
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:22.880
interview that took place with Ryan after he had recovered

570
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.000
all these years later, and they were going to tell him,

571
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.319
you're gonna have to testify in this case, and we

572
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:28.720
want to.

573
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:29.920
Get you prepared to do that.

574
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:33.559
But what caught My attention on the interview was the

575
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:38.160
location where this interview took place, because it said that

576
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.200
the interview with Ryan was held at the Arizona Department

577
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:48.400
of Corrections, specifically the Lewis Prison Complex. So I'm like,

578
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:51.720
why would they bring Ryan to a prison complex to

579
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.200
interview him? That's weird.

580
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:56.799
But that's when I.

581
00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.160
Realized that I had been sold a few lies by

582
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.559
the media in the past years. See, if Ryan was

583
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.639
totally dependent and in need of care by an adult

584
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.880
after the shooting, then why did I find out at

585
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:16.920
this juncture that he was actually in prison. He wasn't

586
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.320
brought there to be interviewed, he was being housed there.

587
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:23.199
He was in prison.

588
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.599
And this genuinely surprised me. I'm serious, a genuine I

589
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.559
was like what, So, of course I needed to dig

590
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.679
into this and figure out why the hell is Ryan

591
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:36.440
in prison? Poor things been shot in the head. Well,

592
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.920
that's when I realized that Ryan had gotten into legal

593
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.679
trouble multiple times after he recuperated from being shot. Now,

594
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.199
to be clear, before I go forward, please hear my

595
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.760
heart when I tell you Ryan was a complete and

596
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:57.559
total victim when he was shot. Complete victim. Okay, nobody

597
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:01.719
deserves that. Hands down, He did not deserve that. Heather

598
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.320
didn't deserve to die either, and they both deserve justice

599
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.800
for what happened to them. I will never waver on

600
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.960
that statement. Ryan and Heather deserve justice for what happened

601
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:17.280
to them. However, two things can be correct at the

602
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:23.920
same time. Right now, I don't have all of the records,

603
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.760
as it's kind of irrelevant to this specific case I'm covering,

604
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.920
but it does matter, okay, in terms of social understanding

605
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.559
of what all went on after the aftermath of the

606
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:45.679
initial shooting case. My heart ached for Ryan's dad as

607
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.239
he explained how much Ryan's life was altered by this shooting.

608
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.400
I didn't know about Ryan being a drug dealer beforehand,

609
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.639
but I learned that as I researched the case, and

610
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:00.760
in total honesty, I will tell you that it did

611
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.079
change my perspective a bit on what all was going

612
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.599
on in Ryan's home that led up to the shooting.

613
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:09.239
What I mean here is in terms of danger level

614
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.760
of lifestyle, not whether Ryan deserved it or not. And

615
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.400
I want to be very clear in what I'm saying

616
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.559
right now, Okay, It's just that it made it a

617
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.719
little bit different than what I thought I knew about

618
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.119
this case. But whatever, Okay, even if he was selling drugs,

619
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:27.760
he didn't deserve to be shot. But when I found

620
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:31.400
out that Ryan was in prison, it made my wheel

621
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:36.360
start turning. How did someone completely dependent on family after

622
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.760
this shooting end up in prison? Saying he was a

623
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.880
dependent would imply brain injury that would remove the ability

624
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.280
to form intent in wrongdoing, wouldn't it. I mean, that's

625
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.679
that's how I thought of it. Like maybe he took

626
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.920
something from a store not realizing that he needed to

627
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:58.639
pay right because of the injury, he didn't He didn't

628
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.079
mean to be a thing, you know, as an example,

629
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:04.800
he just didn't know. Because of the brain injury, it

630
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:07.440
affected his way of thinking. It takes the intent out

631
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:07.719
of it.

632
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.480
Well, no, that's not.

633
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.960
What exactly is going on here. So I researched more,

634
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.760
and I did pull more records, and to start, Ryan

635
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:21.280
had an assault charge placed on him in March of

636
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:26.840
two thousand and nine, and then in November of that

637
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:28.880
same year, of two thousand and six.

638
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:30.840
He really fucked up.

639
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:37.760
So according to that report, the reason he was in

640
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.559
prison was for armed robbery. Not only that he had

641
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:47.119
been sentenced to five years in prison for it, and

642
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.320
that's why detectives had to go to the prison to

643
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:57.159
talk to him about testifying at Larry's trial. Either way, okay.

644
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.719
When they went to prepare him for what was to come,

645
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:04.199
Ryan had different plans in terms of his participation in

646
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.480
the trial against the man that he said had come

647
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:09.079
in and been a part of him being shot in

648
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:13.079
the face and murdering Heather. Ryan told detectives he was

649
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.679
now no longer willing to testify in the trial against Larry.

650
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:22.079
His reasoning was that he had been threatened that he

651
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:26.840
would be killed if he did this. He said that

652
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.000
he saw this first hand when another inmate in the

653
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:34.840
same prison yard had just testified at trial recently, and

654
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:39.440
whenever people found out inmates found out that he had testified,

655
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.440
he was severely beaten and even had his head crushed

656
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:44.400
in with a large block of ice, and as far

657
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:48.599
as Ryan knew, he said the guy had died. Ryan,

658
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.880
using logic, said, look, I only have about a year

659
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.760
and a half left on my sentence for this armed robbery,

660
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:59.719
and because of that, I don't want to say anything

661
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.119
why I'm still locked up now. After that, when I

662
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.320
get released, I'll testify but I will not testify before

663
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.679
he was so convinced that he was going to be

664
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.679
killed if he was called to take the stand, he said,

665
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:13.960
and if you make me, he said, I will flat

666
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:20.199
out lie. So he got word. Ryan's whole thing was

667
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.880
that he got word that Richie had sent word to

668
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:28.679
his padnas on Ryan's yard to do what's called KOs him. Now,

669
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.000
I'll just let you know if you don't know, but

670
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.719
KOs means kill on site. So Ryan believed that Richie

671
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.760
had KOs him, basically telling people to kill him on

672
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.280
site if they saw him. And that's why he's done.

673
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.599
He's not even gonna say a word. Ryan then ended

674
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:44.480
the interview with the investigators with the fact that he

675
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.159
would lie and he would say Larry wasn't even there

676
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.760
if he was called to the stand. So fun facts

677
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.960
because I even looked more into that the beating of

678
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:57.159
that other inmate actually did happen. Ryan was telling the

679
00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.639
truth there. It did happen, but his understanding of what

680
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:02.960
happened was completely wrong because it was over drug dealings

681
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:05.920
in the prison and that dude was thought to be

682
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.719
a snitch over these drug dealings. But regardless, Ryan believed it,

683
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:12.199
and he believed that he would be killed, and so

684
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.599
he was now of no use to the prosecution in

685
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:21.559
his own case. So Ryan doesn't want to testify, Cheryl

686
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.400
won't testify, Pete won't testify. But even facing these issues,

687
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:32.880
detectives pressed forward with their case and Larry went on trial. Now,

688
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:38.639
even in his interview after his second arrest, showed holes

689
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:44.039
in his continued claims of innocence. So Ryan said it

690
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:48.159
was both Larry and Ritchie who attacked him. Cheryl, independent

691
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:51.440
of Ryan never having spoken to him, says it was

692
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.840
both of them too, And in the follow up interview,

693
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:58.679
Larry says, look, my car was there, so when I

694
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:02.199
went back to collect things, you know, that's what we

695
00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:04.079
were going to get. We're all of these things. But guys,

696
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.599
that couldn't be truthful, as you know, because the car

697
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.760
had already been towed. It wasn't even on site. So

698
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.760
Larry said that they went through the back when they

699
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.239
went to go do this of the house, not the front,

700
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:21.599
which is in direct contradiction to what Eric had said

701
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:24.800
had happened. So when he was confronted with the fact

702
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:27.079
that Eric told police what happened and that he had

703
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:31.000
come through the front door, he admitted, Okay, yeah, Eric

704
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:34.559
was there, but we came through the back. Okay, we

705
00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:35.079
didn't come.

706
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:35.480
Through the front.

707
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:38.280
But what Larry was obviously trying to do was combine

708
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:43.119
two separate incidences, even though the timeline was clearly different.

709
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.639
He was trying to combine two incidences so that it

710
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.519
wasn't possible that he was there on the twenty third.

711
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:52.840
That's what's going on here, so this interview. Again, he

712
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.119
also claimed that he hadn't spoken to Cheryl in eight

713
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.159
months when everything went down because she had been cheating

714
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:01.800
on him. They were mad at each other. But again, dude,

715
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:04.440
she lets you take the car. That doesn't make any sense.

716
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.360
The lies were falling apart amongst the fact that there

717
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:10.960
was all this physical evidence too at the scene. But

718
00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:14.519
then Larry was advised of something that he hadn't accounted for,

719
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.920
and that's whenever it was brought to his attention. Hey, Bud,

720
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:20.480
we know that you were housed with your son for

721
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.400
three months before the initial trial. We know that you

722
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:26.920
had plenty of time to align your stories, including the

723
00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:29.960
iguana fiasco and all of this bullshit that you're trying

724
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:34.519
to sell us. So when Larry was advised and realized

725
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.400
that they knew that they were housed together. Larry continues

726
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.519
to maintain they never discussed it, It never came up,

727
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:45.000
and they just never ever addressed it. Whatever.

728
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:45.440
Larry.

729
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:49.519
Well, after ten days of testimony and two days of deliberation,

730
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:53.000
Larry Carver was found guilty and sentenced to life in

731
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.960
prison for the shooting of Ryan and the murder of

732
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:02.639
Heather Kwan. Finally, this ongoing had seemingly been closed and

733
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:09.079
justice finally served. But not so fast, y'all, because in

734
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:13.119
all of the years that passed since this case initially

735
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.920
took place, there had been a shift, and I mean

736
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.760
in terms of society, because society in all of these

737
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:25.199
years had now turned on police with regard to this case.

738
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.400
Rather than it be one that, you know, a case

739
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:33.320
that was solved in the face of overwhelming odds and

740
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:37.599
including miracles of survival that also went against all odds.

741
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:42.639
The narrative began to shift. It wasn't how horrible it

742
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:45.239
was that Richie and Larry had murdered Heather and shot

743
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:49.920
Ryan in the face. No, it had evolved because now

744
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:55.719
the story had shifted into attacking the police. Because now

745
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.679
there was an outcry that police didn't immediately recognize that

746
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.639
Ryan had been shot when he was running away out

747
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:05.960
of the back door from the scene the day that

748
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:10.679
they made contact at the house. The outcry now included

749
00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:13.599
that Ryan was looked at as a suspect and he

750
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:17.480
was interrogated for hours and hours with an obvious bullet

751
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.079
hole in his face. The narrative became that the police

752
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.000
were so inept and so stupid that all of Ryan's

753
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:29.760
brain damage was clearly as a result of the police's

754
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:34.880
fault and of their delay of care to him. I

755
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:36.760
would like to place a challenge to you as my

756
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.519
listeners right now, I really would. I want to ask

757
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:41.360
you right now because we still have a ton to

758
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.320
go over in this in this episode, but I want

759
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:49.920
to challenge you to pause me, to pause my show

760
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:55.880
right now. I want you to go see for yourself

761
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:01.320
what is the title on damn near every story and

762
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:05.079
show that has covered this. And I'm very serious right now,

763
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.599
I want you to do it yourself, pause my show

764
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:11.679
and go look. Don't just believe me, try it for yourself,

765
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:17.119
because if you do, you will see that everything you

766
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:23.880
research misses everything that is relative to this case. Big

767
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:29.800
facts are flat out ignored. Or planal incorrect, small things

768
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.079
from you know, like this happened in an apartment, which

769
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:35.840
it did not, it happened in a house, all the

770
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:39.800
way to big things like Ryan was interrogated for multiple

771
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.840
hours with a bullet hole in his head. Some reports,

772
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:47.079
depending on what shows or things you read, will say

773
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:52.280
anything from Ryan was interviewed anywhere from two hours till

774
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:58.880
eleven hours, and some claims okay, well, Ryan would actually

775
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:03.159
pass away a few years later, okay, after he was

776
00:46:03.199 --> 00:46:08.920
released from prison. Even the circumstances surrounding Ryan's cause of

777
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:15.840
death are flat out incorrect online and even interviews that

778
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.239
I watched that were given by family are not correct.

779
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:24.880
So it had to be intrigued, it did. I'm not

780
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:28.119
gonna lie, and I'm gonna take the time to explain

781
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:33.079
multiple things in this case that should matter as to

782
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:36.079
why and what happened, and I will go in chronological

783
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:38.159
order of the events so that we can all be

784
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:41.880
on the same page. You have to look at this, though,

785
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.760
as if you know nothing about the case for it

786
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:51.079
to make sense. So let's start with the bullet hole

787
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.800
in Ryan's face. Okay, I've posted the photos on Patreon

788
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:59.480
and on Facebook. Of course, if you know that he

789
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.639
has been if you know that, because I've told you that,

790
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:07.719
it's obvious what you're looking at, it is obvious. But

791
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.920
if you didn't know, if you just happened upon the

792
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:16.840
home like police did for a welfare check, it isn't

793
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:20.000
obvious that he was shot. Now right now, some people

794
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:21.840
are clutching their pearls. What do you mean, look at

795
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.280
the whole it's because you know. I took the photo okay,

796
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:31.599
the photos of Ryan. I took those and I showed

797
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:35.599
them to people I know, which include with no preface.

798
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:38.719
I just said, look at these photos, emergency room doctor

799
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.880
friends as well as police officers. Okay, I just showed

800
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.320
it to them. I asked them, do you know who

801
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:49.079
this is? They all said no. And my next question was,

802
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.360
what do you think happened to him? And not one person,

803
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:58.920
not one, not emergency room doctors and not police officers,

804
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:02.719
not one of them said oh, he's been shot.

805
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:04.039
Not one of them.

806
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.760
They all said something to the effect of he looks

807
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.480
like he's been in a fight, or he was hit

808
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:16.119
with something, maybe he fell. Also, one even explained to

809
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:21.519
me that the bruising would imply that it was over

810
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.519
a day old because of the coloring, because it had

811
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:28.400
shifted in color. This was the medical person that it

812
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:30.239
had shifted in color, and so it looks like it

813
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:32.719
wasn't fresh. What had happened?

814
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:34.199
Now?

815
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.440
I want to post some questions to you, but remember

816
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:40.679
you can't use the results of an investigation to criticize

817
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:44.880
the process which leads you to those very results.

818
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:46.639
That's not fair. You can't do that.

819
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:49.639
So I want to ask you this Number one. If

820
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.480
it was so obvious that Ryan had been shot in

821
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:54.079
the face, and the police should have known this within

822
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.960
seconds of laying their eyes on him, how the hell

823
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.000
did Ryan's own roommate not know that he had been shot.

824
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.079
He opened the door for her, she spoke to him,

825
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:11.119
she brought him medicine, She even asked him about his injuries.

826
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:15.960
She cleaned up the house, she wiped up blood and vomit,

827
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:20.480
and she never thought that he needed nine to one

828
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:24.559
one and she certainly never thought that he had been shot.

829
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:28.800
And she spent hours with him after she got home.

830
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.159
How the hell did nearly ten other police officers not

831
00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:36.639
know immediately that he had been shot in the face

832
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.639
during this initial contact. Again, I want to reiterate to you,

833
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:45.320
Ryan never mentioned to anyone that he had been shot

834
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:50.679
until he was actually in the interrogation room, but back

835
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:54.639
at the scene before that, no one on scene ever

836
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.679
mentioned that they thought that he looked like he may

837
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:01.400
have been shot. He was walking, he was talking and

838
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:05.880
doing all of the things that people do, okay, admittedly confused,

839
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:10.719
but still doing them. So to that point, why would

840
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.000
anyone make that leap And at that very early juncture

841
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:16.239
when they said get on the ground and the investigation go,

842
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.800
I bet he's been shot. Seriously, I want you to

843
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:24.719
think about that. I have seen injuries personally far more

844
00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:27.760
superior to what Ryan Wallers were. Now, they were bad,

845
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.719
don't get me wrong, But in terms of damage, I

846
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:36.679
have seen wounds in real life far more grave looking

847
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.639
than the ones that he sustained. And I've never once

848
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.159
jumped to the conclusion I bet that person was shot,

849
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.760
because it just isn't something that would have jumped in

850
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:47.320
my mind.

851
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.719
He had a black eye, his eye was.

852
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:54.239
Swollen, it was still in his head, though, I just

853
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:58.599
wouldn't have jumped to that. How did CSI not notice

854
00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:01.440
people on the scene who photof this shit all the time,

855
00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:04.280
they didn't notice. How did people at the police station,

856
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:08.119
the processing folks, how did they not scream in horror,

857
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:10.719
Oh my god, you've brought someone shot in here. You

858
00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:13.719
really have to ask yourself these questions, because a lot

859
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.119
of people had contact with Ryan, and the answer is simple,

860
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:20.480
no one knew what had happened at that point. They

861
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:24.400
had to ask the questions first. That's why Ryan was

862
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.920
there to be asked the questions. He was walking, he

863
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:30.440
was talking, and he was there. They had to talk

864
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:35.280
to him. Anyone could watch the Super Bowl and then

865
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.119
afterwards say, oh man, all these things were done wrong.

866
00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.519
And of course if the coaches knew the outcome before

867
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.960
it even started, they would change some things. Of course

868
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:48.000
they would. That's common sense. Hindsight is twenty twenty. And

869
00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:51.000
I have read all three hundred and eighty six pages

870
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:54.639
of investigation in this case, as well as watched the interrogation,

871
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.960
and I've looked at dispatches, and Detective Dalton, who interviewed

872
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:04.519
Ryan in the infamous viral video, has taken tons of

873
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:10.159
heat from everyone because of his supposed ineptness. And I

874
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.199
just need you to know I'm gonna take the time

875
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.360
to tell you I logged the timestamps on all of

876
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:19.920
the documents and the videos and the dispatches, and these

877
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:24.599
are the facts, okay, in black and white. The initial

878
00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:29.000
call for the welfare check was at twelve forty eight am.

879
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:34.320
A street cop responded to that. Detective Dalton and his

880
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:39.000
team were called to respond well after Ryan was already

881
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:44.320
taken into custody. It was assigned to Detective Dalton officially

882
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:49.840
at three point thirty am at the literal crime scene.

883
00:52:50.119 --> 00:52:54.960
Never was Detective Dalton briefed that Ryan was shot, because

884
00:52:55.000 --> 00:53:00.519
nobody knew that, and Ryan didn't say in any report

885
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.679
by anybody that he had been shot. I went through

886
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:12.199
multiple people's reports. Ryan was already at the police station

887
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:17.480
being photographed and processed for questioning, while detectives were gathering

888
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:20.639
the basic information of what is going on here, like

889
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:22.639
just the nuts and bolts of what is going on here?

890
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:26.280
Mind you, This is where experience matters.

891
00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:32.280
Okay, And explaining this case properly and in totality I

892
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.519
believe requires some experience, because I truly want you to

893
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:41.000
understand this about policing. When someone is injured on a scene,

894
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:47.119
fire is called to first respond as medical. The fire

895
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.440
department came and went just like it they were supposed

896
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:56.679
to before Detective Dalton was even ever on the scene.

897
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:59.480
They were gone before he even arrived on the scene.

898
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.199
This is documented in the reports and the dispatches. You

899
00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:07.559
cannot go in and alter this information. Everything is time

900
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:12.159
stamped for a reason. If you believe that that can happen,

901
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:18.360
you don't understand anything about time stampage in dispatch logs.

902
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.400
So when fire arrived, they said they couldn't help Heather,

903
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:26.000
and then they radioed back to dispatch that they were

904
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.199
done at the scene and they left. What I personally

905
00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:33.559
believe happened again, this is my opinion founded in experience,

906
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:36.760
is that Ryan had been handcuffed and placed in a

907
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.679
police car by the officers that were in the back

908
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.239
of the house. Officers that were inside of the house

909
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:49.360
were talking with the firefighters about Heather. Ryan was trying

910
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.639
to run away while Heather was dead on the couch.

911
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:54.159
It's different sets of officers.

912
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:57.320
So when fire declared that they were of no use

913
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:02.000
to Heather because she was beyond help, Ryan was likely

914
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:05.639
not even on their radar as needing immediate medical attention.

915
00:55:06.039 --> 00:55:10.280
Because different officers were handling different points of the incident,

916
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:15.000
which was still live and fluid. Okay, that means the

917
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.719
officers in the back of the house placed him in

918
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:24.039
the police car. That's where this breakdown of communication, if anything,

919
00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:27.920
should not have happened. Okay, that's where I think it is.

920
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:32.960
However it did. Okay, So fire left the scene not

921
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:34.559
checking Ryan.

922
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:36.679
I don't know if they did or they didn't.

923
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:38.519
I don't have anything that says they did, so I'm

924
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:40.000
gonna just err on the side they didn't.

925
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:41.639
Okay, I don't think they did.

926
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.000
But I think it's because of that breakdown in communication

927
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:48.639
in a fluid scene with tons of officers working it. Okay,

928
00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:51.159
they checked on the victim in the house, found her dead,

929
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:55.239
Fire radioed in she's doa and they rolled out because

930
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:57.280
Ryan was in the police car and they didn't know.

931
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:00.880
That's what I think when on here, and it makes

932
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:03.559
sense to me there was a breakdown in communication. Should

933
00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.840
that have happened, Absolutely not. That's the core of where

934
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:12.159
I think the mistake happened. But it did for reasons

935
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:14.960
that if you lay it out, make sense. Should it have? No?

936
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:16.159
Did it? Yes?

937
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:17.440
Does it make sense as to why?

938
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:24.880
Yes? Also, all of that happened before Detective Dalton even

939
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:28.679
arrived on scene, So once he had a working knowledge

940
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:31.679
of the scene, a basic one and circumstances to that point.

941
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:34.599
That's when he immediately got in his car, changed his

942
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.559
attention to Ryan and Alisha, who are at the police station,

943
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:42.199
and he drove over there. Detective Dalton drove to the

944
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:45.679
station and then he interviewed Alicia starting at four to

945
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:50.239
twenty five am. He then wanted to interview Ryan. These

946
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.239
interviews cannot happen at the same time in an investigation

947
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.280
because you don't want multiple witnesses to hear what the

948
00:56:56.320 --> 00:57:00.639
other person is saying. That would completely compromise then investigation.

949
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.000
It's standard practice to separate them. So two people were

950
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:07.599
in a house with a dead girl, neither one claims

951
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.800
to know anything about it, and one of them is

952
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:10.320
beat up.

953
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:14.039
What do you think is going on here?

954
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:19.280
So after Alisha's interview, which lasted roughly an hour, Detective

955
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:22.360
Dalton went straight in and he started to interview Ryan.

956
00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:29.280
Within twenty five minutes of ever speaking to Ryan, he

957
00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:32.800
had read him his rights. He realized that Ryan was

958
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:36.760
not making sense. He listened to Ryan give multiple versions

959
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:41.920
or multiple stories of what happened before Ryan eventually said,

960
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:46.599
eventually said for the very first time that he had

961
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:52.679
been shot. Detective Dalton looked at that with suspicion. You're

962
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:54.280
walking in you're talking, bro, like, what do you mean

963
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.119
you were shot in the face, and now you're just

964
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:58.719
now saying this too. This has not been an ongoing theme.

965
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:01.880
But he listened to what he had to say. He

966
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:05.960
questioned it, and then he went up closer, looked at

967
00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:09.039
Ryan and then said, you know what I do think

968
00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:10.519
you could see it in his body language. He's like,

969
00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:14.000
holy shit, this might actually be true. Improbable, but could

970
00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:17.840
be true. And to that point, the next thing that

971
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:22.800
he did was he immediately immediately went outside, told him,

972
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:26.360
don't move, stay right here. He called for medical and

973
00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:32.360
the entire contact between Detective Dalton and Ryan lasted from

974
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:39.280
five twenty eight am to five fifty three am. That's

975
00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:42.800
a fact. It's videotaped. If you've watched the interview, you

976
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:46.679
know this. You should know this. I find it incredibly

977
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:51.440
unfair that multiple so called news outlets and storytellers have

978
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:56.360
failed to mention this. When you armchair quarterback, you are

979
00:58:56.360 --> 00:59:00.280
the worst type of people. In situations as complicated and

980
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:05.800
as serious as this was, you have to realize this, guys,

981
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:09.519
you don't know what you don't know until it's made clear.

982
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.039
Everyone else has the luxury of summarized storytelling that leaves

983
00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:19.639
out the process, and that is completely unfair. It's unfair,

984
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:23.000
and it demonizes the very people that are trying to

985
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:27.719
solve the cases, rather than focusing on the actual killers.

986
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:30.519
So the issue, in my opinion, was a hectic crime

987
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:34.159
scene where multiple officers were working it, and when fire arrived,

988
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.239
they saw Heather dead. They only knew that person as

989
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:41.360
a victim. And that is why Ryan didn't get seen immediately,

990
00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:45.559
not because of an intentional move by police who ignored

991
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:48.239
someone who was telling them that they were shot.

992
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:51.920
It was never mentioned, and he simply looked like he

993
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:53.960
had been in a fight, not to mention, he was

994
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:57.079
walking and talking. So say what you want, but it

995
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:00.679
defies all logic to jump to a conclusion that he

996
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:05.159
was shot immediately. Ryan's first claim. Reminder to you, Ryan's

997
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:08.039
first claim was that Heather had hit him. I hope

998
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:10.119
that you're I really hope that you're listening to me

999
01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:16.000
on this one. I'm not taking up for the whole situation.

1000
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:20.119
There was a miscommunication there, Okay, Whenever they found Heather

1001
01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:22.039
and all the police officers and putting Ryan in the car,

1002
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:24.800
no doubt, no doubt, and they needed to review this

1003
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:26.960
and have an after action plan of how they can

1004
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:32.159
do better in the future. But to imply that this

1005
01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:35.440
was more than that, I think is completely unfair. And

1006
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:37.519
this is at the point usually whenever people go, but

1007
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:41.280
he was shot Kelly and he wasn't making sense? You know,

1008
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:45.679
how did they not know because you wouldn't know that,

1009
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:50.559
just like the detectives until Detective Dalton sent him to

1010
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:54.239
the hospital. You can't armchair quarterback this with information you

1011
01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:57.679
know from the start. And by the way, if you're wondering,

1012
01:00:58.039 --> 01:01:01.039
why didn't the cops ask him, you know, or talk

1013
01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:04.679
to him at the scene first, and that's because they

1014
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:08.000
found him at a scene at the same time that

1015
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:12.880
Heather was found dead, so that automatically turned this into

1016
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:16.800
a homicide case. And here's another thing that experience and

1017
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:20.360
knowledge would change in your mind or should explain to you,

1018
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:25.800
is that no officer, no officer is stupid enough to

1019
01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:30.199
start asking questions of a potential witness or a potential

1020
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:34.239
suspect that may compromise the case down the line in

1021
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:38.639
court when a homicide detective is en route and will

1022
01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:44.840
be doing the formal questioning, the process matters. It may

1023
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:48.039
not have gone perfect, but it's nowhere near what it

1024
01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:51.280
has been made out to be. But this is where

1025
01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:57.000
things then get really messy in this case. And I

1026
01:01:57.039 --> 01:01:58.920
want to tell you this, and I'm trying to be

1027
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.519
as genuine as possible when I say this. This next

1028
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:08.360
portion is incredibly difficult for me as a podcaster to

1029
01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:14.239
share when I fully recognize that there are families hurting

1030
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:17.920
still today after this case. All Right, my heart aches,

1031
01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:22.960
it genuinely does. It hurts for both Ryan and Heather's families.

1032
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:26.280
They didn't ask for any of this. They are victims

1033
01:02:26.559 --> 01:02:29.559
in all of this, yet they're the ones who are

1034
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.599
left to deal with it.

1035
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.519
Okay, they're the ones that are here.

1036
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.760
I could not hurt more for these families at the

1037
01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:41.480
loss and the trauma of everything that's gone on here.

1038
01:02:42.039 --> 01:02:44.199
But where I get a little sketched out, and I'm

1039
01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:46.400
telling y'all now I'm going to get some hate for this,

1040
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:50.159
but I'm going to share it. Where I got a

1041
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:55.199
little sketched out is when accusations started flying that police

1042
01:02:55.280 --> 01:03:00.920
may have changed the dates on their police reports. Okay,

1043
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:06.559
And to understand why this claim is made I have

1044
01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:09.920
to lay out some foundation for you that I don't

1045
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:13.480
want to, but I feel like I have to. Okay,

1046
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:20.199
So here's the deal. Eventually, Ryan and his dad filed

1047
01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:24.199
a lawsuit against the Phoenix Police Department. This was done

1048
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:27.840
on June twenty sixth, two thousand and nine, and three

1049
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:31.559
months later, this case was heard in court on September

1050
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:35.440
the tenth of two thousand and nine. In short, I

1051
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:37.480
will put, by the way, all of this on Patreon

1052
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:39.360
so you can go vet it and look at it yourself.

1053
01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:44.480
But in short, the lawsuit claimed that the Phoenix Police

1054
01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:50.199
Department refused Ryan treatment and quote at some point during

1055
01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:54.360
questioning end quote, a police officer concluded he had been

1056
01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:57.880
shot in the face and then sent him for medical treatment.

1057
01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:02.280
In the suit, they say it took seven hours for

1058
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:07.519
this to take place, but that cannot be accurate on

1059
01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:12.119
its face, because I went back to the timestamps and

1060
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.280
if entry into the home was done at one twenty

1061
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:20.519
one am and Detective Dalton called for medical help at

1062
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:26.360
five fifty three am, that's not seven hours like to

1063
01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:31.920
start with. So the suit also claims that because of

1064
01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:37.760
this alleged refusal to seek medical treatment by police, that

1065
01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:43.199
is the reason that Ryan suffered serious, permanent and painful injuries.

1066
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:51.000
The issue with this that I took was that even

1067
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:55.599
the emergency room doctors completely disagree with this claim. The

1068
01:04:55.639 --> 01:05:01.360
people who cared for Ryan, even Ryan's own medical witness.

1069
01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:06.639
Ryan's medical witness, told the courts that the delay and

1070
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:11.280
care that he may have received would not have made

1071
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:15.760
much of a difference. In essence, they were explained that

1072
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:18.800
the damage to Ryan's brain had already been done to

1073
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:24.400
his body before the police ever arrived. Remember, at first,

1074
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:27.679
the police thought that the shooting occurred Christmas Day because

1075
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:31.719
that's when they found Heather and Ryan, but the medical

1076
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.880
examiner's report stated that Heather had been dead for at

1077
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.079
least a day or two when the autopsy was completed,

1078
01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:42.840
based on her level of dcomp Also, remember no phone

1079
01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:47.559
calls were made by Ryan or Heather after the twenty

1080
01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:55.360
third of December. It made since this all aligns. Ryan's

1081
01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:59.239
old bruising made sense too, because it happened on the

1082
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:04.880
twenty third. Hell, even the killer's mom slash wife told

1083
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:11.360
police it happened on the twenty third, Dad, But Ryan's

1084
01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:17.519
dad says, no, that is not true. Ryan's dad says,

1085
01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:21.000
I saw Ryan on the twenty third and he was fine.

1086
01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:25.360
Plus there was talk about the fact that Ryan's phone

1087
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:29.159
made calls after the twenty third, which is right, then

1088
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:32.320
is proof that Ryan wasn't yet shot. How could Ryan

1089
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.880
be on the phone if he's been shot and all

1090
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:37.719
this brain injury stuff has happened. But that's not true

1091
01:06:37.719 --> 01:06:40.719
on its face either, because during the investigation I saw

1092
01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:45.400
the report, it was found that Ryan had multiple cell phones.

1093
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:47.639
Not just one.

1094
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:51.679
The one making calls on or after the twenty third

1095
01:06:52.440 --> 01:06:54.519
was a cell phone that Ryan had loaned to a

1096
01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:58.320
friend named David, and that friend, David, who was interviewed,

1097
01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:02.719
confirmed no, I was the one using that phone. Ryan

1098
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:05.239
owned it, his name was on the account and the bill,

1099
01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:08.119
but David was the one that was still in possession

1100
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:12.480
of the phone after the incident and before the incident.

1101
01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:22.840
So partial truths are not truths. So in that lawsuit,

1102
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:26.679
Ryan's dad also made an additional claim that because of

1103
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:31.679
the neglect of Phoenix PD, he lost the quote companionship

1104
01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:35.000
and affection of his son end quote, as well as

1105
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:37.440
financial losses, and that he has to care for his

1106
01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:42.239
son who is permanently disabled. Well, these are some very

1107
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:46.519
serious claims, yet the court ruled against Ryan and his

1108
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.159
father in their lawsuit. They dismissed it. The court's dismissed

1109
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:54.920
the lawsuit. And you may wonder, oh my gosh, what

1110
01:07:55.039 --> 01:07:58.960
in the world, because I wondered too. This seemed like

1111
01:07:59.079 --> 01:08:02.559
something in my opinion, the PD would have settled and

1112
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:06.360
let insurance pay this out rather than deal with it. Honestly,

1113
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.159
that happens all the time. People sue police departments and

1114
01:08:09.199 --> 01:08:10.880
they just settle, even if they're not in the wrong,

1115
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:14.639
because it's cheaper than fighting in court. Trust me, that

1116
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:17.760
happens all the time. It is cheaper to settle than

1117
01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:21.319
to go fight for what is right. But in this case,

1118
01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:26.439
the police fought back, fought back, as in, challenged the lawsuit,

1119
01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:31.720
and so it begs the question why why on this one?

1120
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:34.199
Why why did they fight on it?

1121
01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:38.000
So I kept digging, and again it turns out that

1122
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:39.720
two things can be right at the same time. Was

1123
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:42.720
Ryan a victim in the shooting one hundred percent? Did

1124
01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:45.520
he walk around for nearly two days with a bullet

1125
01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:48.720
in his head and it damaged his brain one hundred percent?

1126
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:52.399
Did the police cause the damage to his brain because

1127
01:08:52.439 --> 01:08:57.960
of their lack of care? Absolutely not medical doctors confirmed this.

1128
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:01.079
The damage was done to Ryan and well before the

1129
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:04.399
police ever got involved. That's why the case was dismissed.

1130
01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:09.800
But then came another huge claim. The narrative began to shift,

1131
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:13.279
and now the claim is no, no, no, wait a minute, no,

1132
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:17.399
police forged and changed the date on the reports. Ryan

1133
01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:20.600
was shot on the twenty fifth, but police lied and

1134
01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:24.840
they changed it to the twenty third. All right, So

1135
01:09:24.880 --> 01:09:27.960
you have to ask yourself, why would family or whomever

1136
01:09:28.119 --> 01:09:32.520
make this claim. Why would they be so strongly pointing

1137
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:35.239
this finger saying that all of the reports must be forged.

1138
01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:39.760
So hang with me here. Why I looked at it

1139
01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:42.880
as why would police do that? Why would the police

1140
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.640
forge documents? What do they have to gain from that?

1141
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.000
Why would this claim now be made? Well, this new

1142
01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:53.159
claim is being made now because if the shooting did

1143
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:57.520
happen on the twenty third, then the delay and care

1144
01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:01.359
would be the police officer's fault or the police department's fault,

1145
01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:06.359
and then they would be liable for Ryan's brain injury.

1146
01:10:07.039 --> 01:10:10.960
And if that's the case, this is worth a huge payout.

1147
01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:16.760
There were even additional claims thrown out that the police

1148
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:21.039
broke Ryan's jaw when they took him into custody. Now,

1149
01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:23.319
the report I read said that they used a pressure

1150
01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:27.119
point pain compliance tactic, which is common, because he wouldn't

1151
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.760
put his hands behind his back and he had him

1152
01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:30.640
under his stomach.

1153
01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:31.600
He was laying on.

1154
01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:36.000
Them and that's why you know they had to do

1155
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:38.600
that so they could pull his arms out. Now, this

1156
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:41.640
is again my own opinion because I wasn't there, But

1157
01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:45.319
if Ryan indeed did have a broken jaw, I would

1158
01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:48.520
be willing to bet money. The police are telling the

1159
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:52.960
truth that they used the pain compliance tactic, and I'm

1160
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:56.840
not saying that they did that. I agree they did that,

1161
01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:59.079
and they're telling the truth just because I love the police. No,

1162
01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:04.800
it's because I have a brain, okay, because whenever Ryan

1163
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:08.119
was shot in the face, I would be willing to

1164
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:12.720
bet money his jaw broke when he collapsed straight down

1165
01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:18.680
to the damn floor and slammed down on the floor. Like,

1166
01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:21.640
does that not make sense? Do you think that Ryan

1167
01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:23.279
was shot in the head and then he just laid

1168
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.239
down gently and just took a nap on the floor,

1169
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:28.560
Because I don't If you shoot someone in the head,

1170
01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:31.600
they collapse immediately. That's when a jaw would be broken.

1171
01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:35.239
It makes more sense the different officers who wrote their

1172
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:39.560
report saying that the pain compliance tactic was used. So

1173
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:43.039
the dad I saw in an interview said no, Ryan

1174
01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:44.399
says the police punched him in the face.

1175
01:11:44.479 --> 01:11:44.680
Yeah.

1176
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:46.319
Well, Ryan also said that he was shot in the

1177
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:48.840
face with blow darts, that Heather hit him, and that

1178
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:51.359
Alicia that a friend Christina, was doing her hair on

1179
01:11:51.399 --> 01:11:55.520
the couch. He was confused. How are we gonna pick

1180
01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:57.239
and choose when he's telling the truth and when he's not.

1181
01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:00.119
I'm not saying he was purposefully lying. I'm not saying

1182
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.279
that about Ryan, but I'm saying he is confused. He

1183
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:05.680
had a brain injury, there's no doubt, okay, but we're

1184
01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:07.560
going to just dismiss the fact that he was shot

1185
01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:09.279
in the face, that he didn't fall to the ground.

1186
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:15.479
That's probably where the jaw injury came from. But that said,

1187
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:19.279
if liability can be proven either way against the police department,

1188
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:21.560
then they would have to pay out big time.

1189
01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:22.600
In this lawsuit.

1190
01:12:22.840 --> 01:12:25.840
So if you can't change the doctor's testimony and your

1191
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.399
lawsuit is thrown out, then claiming a conspiracy of report

1192
01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:33.640
changes is the only thing really that's left to claim

1193
01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:37.199
to win the lawsuit. That's my opinion, but I feel

1194
01:12:37.279 --> 01:12:40.600
very strongly about this opinion founded in what I've what

1195
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:44.880
I know based on what I've researched, but so far,

1196
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:49.319
I also want to point this out. To believe the

1197
01:12:49.399 --> 01:12:54.079
lawsuit claims and everything that's listed therein you would now

1198
01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:57.680
need to believe that in terms of timeline, if you

1199
01:12:57.720 --> 01:12:59.560
want to believe that Ryan was actually shot on the

1200
01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:01.960
twenty fifth, and not only twenty third, this is also

1201
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.159
what you need to believe. You need to believe that

1202
01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:09.239
Cheryl was lying, south Side was lying, hell Raiser was lying,

1203
01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:15.600
Alisha was lying. All of the police are lying at

1204
01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:21.159
different phases throughout this entire investigation. The coroner was lying.

1205
01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:25.479
The phone records from the phone companies were forged are altered.

1206
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:30.359
The friend Crystal was lying, the friend Philippe was lying.

1207
01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:34.760
The dispatch records were forged or altered for nearly eight

1208
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:40.680
years worth of documentation. The fire department dispatches were forged

1209
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:45.520
or altered after the fact, Richie's friend Chunk and other

1210
01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:50.760
friends were lying. Larry's sister, Larry's cousin, they were lying,

1211
01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:55.159
And ultimately you have to believe that Ritchie and Larry

1212
01:13:55.680 --> 01:13:58.439
are telling the truth and that they didn't do it.

1213
01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:02.760
They were gone. It couldn't have happened. That is the

1214
01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:07.159
only way that the shooting could possibly have happened on

1215
01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:09.720
the twenty fifth. When you put all the timelines of

1216
01:14:09.760 --> 01:14:13.119
what everyone who doesn't even know each other together, along

1217
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:17.520
with medical records and phone records and everything else, you

1218
01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:19.680
have to believe all of that to believe it happened

1219
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:23.920
on the twenty third. But hey, if you think that's

1220
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:27.399
logical again, that's fine, stick with it. But guess what.

1221
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:30.720
I kept digging even more, and that's when I found

1222
01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:34.520
even more that I think matters in this case. I

1223
01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:37.960
decided to dig into Detective Dalton's history. He has been

1224
01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:42.680
so villainized that I need to know, what did this

1225
01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:43.279
guy do?

1226
01:14:43.479 --> 01:14:44.079
I need to know.

1227
01:14:44.479 --> 01:14:48.039
I wanted to go find everything that I could on

1228
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:51.479
this detective, and I got to tell you what I found.

1229
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:59.279
I found that Detective Dalton has never been disciplined nor

1230
01:14:59.399 --> 01:15:04.640
criminally charged in an over thirty year career in law

1231
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:10.079
enforcement and in homicide investigation, not even just this case,

1232
01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:17.880
in anything, He's never been charged nothing, not even disciplined.

1233
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:24.159
He also retired in good standing from the department years later.

1234
01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:31.119
So this is when people start throwing out more accusations

1235
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:32.960
that I have to tell you based on what I

1236
01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.119
looked into. Part of it is partially true, but if

1237
01:15:36.159 --> 01:15:40.239
you understand what's happening, then you get why it's irrelevant.

1238
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:43.920
All right, So hang in here. It all has to

1239
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:49.720
do with what is called a consent decree. So admittedly

1240
01:15:50.520 --> 01:15:53.640
this is where the average Joe doesn't care to learn anymore.

1241
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.880
But I'm gonna implore you to hear me out real quick,

1242
01:15:55.920 --> 01:15:59.239
and I'm gonna shorten it up. Okay, but it's gonna

1243
01:15:59.239 --> 01:16:01.439
go to the DOJ. Let's talk about them. Requick the

1244
01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:04.600
Department of Justice. Okay, they have a civil rights unit

1245
01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:08.920
of the DJ. It's basically you can do that, look

1246
01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:12.359
it up yourself. But basically, the civil rights unit is

1247
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:17.319
a bunch of anti cop, anti law enforcement folks that

1248
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:22.479
feel like everything that police do is a civil rights violation.

1249
01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:26.199
They'll you know, cops are mean, cops use force, they

1250
01:16:26.199 --> 01:16:28.399
don't listen to the suspects when they claim that their

1251
01:16:28.439 --> 01:16:31.479
cuffs are too tight. I'm dead serious. Go look it

1252
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:34.840
up right now. Don't take my word for it. Well,

1253
01:16:34.880 --> 01:16:38.359
in response to the Civil Rights Unit of the of

1254
01:16:38.439 --> 01:16:43.119
the DOJ and what all they want to do in

1255
01:16:43.199 --> 01:16:47.199
terms of looking at police. What they do is they

1256
01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:50.279
open up inquiries in police departments. These are what these

1257
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:54.760
consent decrees are, which allows then if you can place

1258
01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:57.960
a consent decree on a police department, it then allows

1259
01:16:58.079 --> 01:17:02.920
the the DOJ base to oversee the department and micro

1260
01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:08.000
analyze everything that they do. So what happens is when

1261
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:12.239
people hear, oh, the DOJ they put a consent decree,

1262
01:17:12.399 --> 01:17:15.479
people automatically think the police department did something wrong. But

1263
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.720
the reality is that these these consent decrees are done

1264
01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:23.439
maybe sometimes because there have been legitimate issues. I'm not

1265
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:26.600
saying that that doesn't happen, but oftentimes it's done to

1266
01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:29.399
ruffle the feathers of cops, and it's also done to

1267
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:33.680
ruffle the feathers of citizens who already believe that cops

1268
01:17:33.800 --> 01:17:37.880
inherently do everything to violate civil rights. Well, the consent

1269
01:17:37.960 --> 01:17:40.960
decree was open against the police department, and that's where

1270
01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:44.039
people start screaming, Oh, yeah, I knew it, I knew it.

1271
01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:48.239
Those cops, those scoundrels, they did something wrong. But what

1272
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:51.920
people who make that claim fail to do is to

1273
01:17:52.079 --> 01:17:58.039
follow up on that consent decree. Because the full story

1274
01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:01.720
is that those consent decree that were opened up against

1275
01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:05.079
the Phoenix PD were found by the courts to be

1276
01:18:05.479 --> 01:18:11.000
of such overreach, such overreach and a majority unfounded, which

1277
01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:16.479
means there's no fact to it that the DOJ admits

1278
01:18:17.079 --> 01:18:21.199
that they had to drop all of their inquiries into

1279
01:18:21.239 --> 01:18:26.279
the Phoenix PD. I researched it myself. I took the

1280
01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:30.479
time to learn something that I can really enlighten you

1281
01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:33.520
on as well. That adds on to this because we

1282
01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:36.760
have something that is information adjacent to what I've just

1283
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:39.479
told you in a dissent decree, okay, and you may

1284
01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:42.600
want to know this. It's called a Brady List. Often,

1285
01:18:43.760 --> 01:18:47.560
a Brady list is what the public incorrectly believes to

1286
01:18:47.560 --> 01:18:49.960
be a list of officers that had been caught lying

1287
01:18:50.359 --> 01:18:51.000
on the stand.

1288
01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:51.520
On the stand.

1289
01:18:51.560 --> 01:18:53.760
If you have like a Ransom Raves page in your area,

1290
01:18:54.159 --> 01:18:56.720
you'll see people always referring to Brady List, Brady List,

1291
01:18:56.760 --> 01:18:58.680
and they're trying to say all these cops are lying, okay,

1292
01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:01.800
and they'll they'll post a list, But the truth be told,

1293
01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:06.039
that's not accurate. It is incredibly easy to be placed

1294
01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:08.319
on a Brady list, even if you did not lie,

1295
01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:11.960
even if you didn't do anything wrong. Let me explain

1296
01:19:12.880 --> 01:19:18.039
if anyone within an investigation makes a mistake or gets

1297
01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:22.439
a reprimand for example, falling asleep in a police unit

1298
01:19:22.479 --> 01:19:25.640
while on duty. It can also include if the public

1299
01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:28.520
makes a complaint, like a mad citizen makes a complaint

1300
01:19:28.560 --> 01:19:33.640
about you, anything, anything. It's not about just testifying anything.

1301
01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:39.399
If there's an investigation and you are tied in to

1302
01:19:39.439 --> 01:19:41.880
there being some sort of issue, even if it's nothing

1303
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:44.000
to do with lying, if it's it's something else, you.

1304
01:19:43.960 --> 01:19:45.680
Can get grouped into that.

1305
01:19:47.159 --> 01:19:51.119
Issue and placed on the Brady List because you are

1306
01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:55.039
in that investigation. So the purpose of it initially is

1307
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.399
to bring awareness to the courts that extra scrutiny may

1308
01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.239
need to be placed on someone's te testimony. Guess what

1309
01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:04.359
that said. The fact that you can get on a

1310
01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:06.680
Brady List very easily even if you're not a liar.

1311
01:20:06.760 --> 01:20:12.199
Guess what. Detective Dalton isn't on the Brady List. In

1312
01:20:12.279 --> 01:20:15.359
thirty plus years, in all of the investigations that he did,

1313
01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:18.119
in all of the cases that he worked, he was

1314
01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:21.319
never found to be part of a civil rights violation

1315
01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:25.199
or anything like that. He had an exemplary career which

1316
01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:30.560
he retired from with honors. So again it makes you wonder, why,

1317
01:20:31.279 --> 01:20:35.520
why are all of these partial truths and inaccuries, in

1318
01:20:35.560 --> 01:20:38.800
accuracies being pushed so hard. I want to know why, Like,

1319
01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:42.159
I really want to know why. And I'll just say this, Okay,

1320
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:47.439
if a civil rights violation can still be proven for

1321
01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:53.920
whatever reason, then it would make grounds for winning millions

1322
01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:58.720
of dollars in on future lawsuit. Do with that information

1323
01:20:59.199 --> 01:21:01.760
what you will. I'm not even gonna tell you what

1324
01:21:01.840 --> 01:21:03.119
to do with it. I want you to just think

1325
01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:07.039
that through. But it's the next few things that I

1326
01:21:07.119 --> 01:21:08.840
found that had me just throw my hands up in

1327
01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:10.079
the air. I'm not gonna lie, just threw my hands

1328
01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:11.439
up in the air, like what the fuck? I had

1329
01:21:11.439 --> 01:21:14.479
to walk away from my computer for a while. My

1330
01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:17.479
understanding before digging into this case was that Ryan was

1331
01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:20.560
shot randomly, the police did a horrible job, and his

1332
01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:24.560
rights were violated, and then he suffered and completely was

1333
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:27.800
disabled for the rest of his life before dying of

1334
01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:31.800
a seizure. And this again is where this podcast is

1335
01:21:31.840 --> 01:21:34.640
gonna get really hard. It's even hard for me because

1336
01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:38.000
I have to decide between telling the truth, the whole truth,

1337
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:40.479
and nothing but the truth, even if it's gonna hurt

1338
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:44.479
feelings or to just end the story here, I'm gonna

1339
01:21:44.520 --> 01:21:47.760
choose to keep going. You can decide what to do

1340
01:21:48.159 --> 01:21:50.920
with the information, but I will tell you the whole truth.

1341
01:21:52.960 --> 01:21:56.119
Let me start again by saying Ryan was one hundred

1342
01:21:56.119 --> 01:21:58.800
percent a victim in the shooting that took place at

1343
01:21:58.800 --> 01:22:01.119
his home. He did not deserve that, and Heather did

1344
01:22:01.159 --> 01:22:03.079
not deserve to be murdered. I know I sound like

1345
01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:06.720
a broken record. I firmly believe that that is true.

1346
01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:10.119
I think we all agree on that. The main reason

1347
01:22:10.479 --> 01:22:13.600
I'm going to continue forward is because some things that

1348
01:22:13.680 --> 01:22:19.199
I found out going further changed my understanding and perception

1349
01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:22.880
about that pesky lawsuit that was filed against the Phoenix

1350
01:22:22.880 --> 01:22:26.079
PD by Ryan's dad. Again, you can decide what to

1351
01:22:26.119 --> 01:22:29.439
do with this information. Okay, I know that his dad

1352
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:31.880
is hurting. I know that his dad is heartbroken. He

1353
01:22:31.960 --> 01:22:35.199
lost his son who died and was shot in the

1354
01:22:35.239 --> 01:22:39.039
face and went through horrific things. My heart hurts for

1355
01:22:39.079 --> 01:22:46.359
this man. Okay. However, there's more so After Ryan recovered

1356
01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:49.560
from the shooting, Remember, the lawsuit implied that he was

1357
01:22:49.640 --> 01:22:51.760
unable to care for himself, that he would need lifelong

1358
01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:56.399
care by his father. That's why the lawsuit was filed,

1359
01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:59.479
as it was told, was because he needed to file

1360
01:22:59.520 --> 01:23:05.640
the lawsuit two years after Ryan recovered, so that he

1361
01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:08.439
could care for Ryan financially for the rest of his life, stating,

1362
01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:12.399
quote his future earning potential. Well, this isn't actually a

1363
01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:15.439
direct quote, but stating his future earning potential was now

1364
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.000
destroyed as well as his pain and suffering. It was

1365
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:20.239
on page six of the lawsuit. I'll put it on Patreon.

1366
01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:22.880
You can go look at it yourself. Well, if that

1367
01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:24.720
is the case, okay, And this is why I threw

1368
01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.439
my hands up. That lawsuit was filed two years after

1369
01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:31.760
Ryan recovered from the gunshot wounds, as much as you

1370
01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:34.520
know he was going to recover. Well, why wasn't it

1371
01:23:34.680 --> 01:23:38.359
mentioned that Ryan was able to do some pretty incredible

1372
01:23:38.439 --> 01:23:43.199
things after recovery from this incident. Remember I already told

1373
01:23:43.279 --> 01:23:46.800
you that Ryan was miraculously able to batter a worker

1374
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:48.880
at a convenience store. Well, let me tell you more

1375
01:23:48.880 --> 01:23:51.840
about that. The battery happened when Ryan tried to buy

1376
01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:54.560
a gift card. He got mad at the clerk when

1377
01:23:54.600 --> 01:23:56.520
the total that he wanted to be put on the

1378
01:23:56.520 --> 01:24:01.920
gift card wasn't available, even the he had confirmed the

1379
01:24:01.960 --> 01:24:04.960
amount he wanted on the gift card before he purchased it.

1380
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:06.520
I think it was like he wanted. He bought a

1381
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:09.920
twenty five dollars gift card. The clerk confirmed, are you

1382
01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:11.560
sure you want to do twenty five because I can't

1383
01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:13.800
alter it after you do that. He said, yes, put

1384
01:24:13.840 --> 01:24:16.560
twenty five on it. The clerk did it, and then

1385
01:24:16.640 --> 01:24:18.880
Ryan said, never mind, I want to do fifty, and

1386
01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:22.039
the clerk said, I can't do that because that's why

1387
01:24:22.039 --> 01:24:24.840
I confirmed ahead of time. Well, according to the report,

1388
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:28.199
that's when Ryan spit in the worker's face, tore down

1389
01:24:28.319 --> 01:24:31.399
multiple food racks in the store, and then yelled bitch,

1390
01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:35.640
fuck you as he left. Well, this is where I'm

1391
01:24:35.640 --> 01:24:37.520
going to jump to Ryan's defense real quick, and I'm

1392
01:24:37.560 --> 01:24:40.800
going to say, well, after a brain injury, people can

1393
01:24:41.199 --> 01:24:44.640
suffer from lack of impulse control, and their emotions can

1394
01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:48.279
vary and not match the situation at hand. I can

1395
01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:51.800
completely see how someone with a brain injury could react

1396
01:24:51.880 --> 01:24:55.920
poorly to the frustration of the situation. I'll give him

1397
01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:59.880
credit there. You still can't batter other people, but I'll

1398
01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:04.560
give him some grace there. Okay, But then when I

1399
01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:07.119
found out later that Ryan went on to commit an

1400
01:25:07.279 --> 01:25:09.880
armed robbery that sent him to prison for five years,

1401
01:25:10.159 --> 01:25:13.079
I want you to know I did request the record

1402
01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:16.760
of what all happened in the armed robbery. I did

1403
01:25:16.760 --> 01:25:19.359
that weeks ago. It is still not available. When I

1404
01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:21.560
do get it, I'm going to be sure to share

1405
01:25:21.560 --> 01:25:23.399
that with you on Patreon so that we can know

1406
01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:24.439
all the details of that.

1407
01:25:24.800 --> 01:25:27.079
It's not that I'm skipping over it. I just don't.

1408
01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:29.800
It was not available and I didn't have eight more

1409
01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:34.239
weeks to wait. Okay, but that said, armed robbery and

1410
01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:37.920
lack of impulse control don't jive with me. He got

1411
01:25:38.199 --> 01:25:41.399
five years in prison for that impulse control. I get

1412
01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:45.800
it lack of but I've never not I've never lost

1413
01:25:46.319 --> 01:25:49.279
control of my impulses that made me arm rob somebody.

1414
01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:50.560
I don't get that.

1415
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:55.399
So what happened to the depending on his dad for

1416
01:25:55.479 --> 01:25:58.640
full time care? Then in the lawsuit, if he was

1417
01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:01.359
able to arm rob somebody and then go on and

1418
01:26:01.399 --> 01:26:05.840
survive in prison for five years in prison, he made

1419
01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:09.119
it in prison, it kind of blows that claim to

1420
01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:13.760
hell that he couldn't care for himself. But the worst

1421
01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:18.079
lie that's been sold to me and probably you, is

1422
01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:21.239
that Ryan died of a seizure due to the brain

1423
01:26:21.359 --> 01:26:26.199
damage because the police failed to get him adequate medical care.

1424
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:33.560
I've heard multiple crime shows echo this. Well. I pulled

1425
01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:36.039
Ryan's cause of death record because I wanted to see

1426
01:26:36.039 --> 01:26:38.960
it for myself for storytelling purposes. I'm a very much

1427
01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:43.479
trust but verified type of person, Okay. And I listened

1428
01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:50.119
to interviews given by Ryan's dad and other shows, and

1429
01:26:50.359 --> 01:26:53.359
I was listening to one and it was given by

1430
01:26:53.399 --> 01:26:57.520
another podcaster who, by the way, has eight hundred thousand

1431
01:26:57.600 --> 01:27:02.279
followers on YouTube. And rather than me tell you what

1432
01:27:02.399 --> 01:27:04.600
was said, I'm going to play you a snippet of it.

1433
01:27:05.359 --> 01:27:10.039
This is Ryan's dad stating what happened when Ryan passed

1434
01:27:10.039 --> 01:27:10.640
away and.

1435
01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:13.720
Then ultimately one of the seizures caused him to pass right.

1436
01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:15.800
He had had a seizure, the last one in the

1437
01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:22.479
grocery store November, and it was January twentieth that ended

1438
01:27:22.520 --> 01:27:25.239
up from a brain bleed from a seizure, and I'm

1439
01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:28.000
sure that that's probably what caused it was the last

1440
01:27:28.039 --> 01:27:31.239
seizure in the grocery store that caused a bleed.

1441
01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:34.920
He hit his head on the ground. Yes, Ryan died

1442
01:27:34.960 --> 01:27:39.039
on January twentieth, twenty sixteen. He was twenty seven years

1443
01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:42.680
old at that point. Since Ryan's death was caused by

1444
01:27:42.680 --> 01:27:45.520
a condition he had due to the gunshots, Larry and

1445
01:27:45.600 --> 01:27:48.520
Ritchie could have been charged with his death. Dawn said

1446
01:27:48.520 --> 01:27:50.439
that the family thought about it, but the two were

1447
01:27:50.479 --> 01:27:53.239
already serving life without the possibility of parole and they

1448
01:27:53.279 --> 01:27:54.880
didn't want to go through another trial.

1449
01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:58.920
After that section you just heard, the interviewer also adds

1450
01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:01.119
that he gave this inner you to clear up all

1451
01:28:01.159 --> 01:28:04.840
of the lies and incorrect information that has been spread

1452
01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:09.039
throughout the years. Look, I admire that, I really admire

1453
01:28:09.039 --> 01:28:11.960
you when you want to clarify lies right that have

1454
01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:16.560
been told. But there's an issue here because I have

1455
01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:21.960
Ryan's death certificate, death report in my hand right here,

1456
01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:29.079
I have it. Ryan Waller's cause of death was a

1457
01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:35.920
heroin overdose. How in the hell is this being sold

1458
01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:37.960
as a deadly seizure?

1459
01:28:38.359 --> 01:28:38.720
How?

1460
01:28:39.680 --> 01:28:40.000
How?

1461
01:28:41.520 --> 01:28:41.840
I mean?

1462
01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:45.439
Those are two very big different They're very different things. Okay,

1463
01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:49.920
So if your dad is going to be financially responsible

1464
01:28:49.960 --> 01:28:51.920
for you for the rest of your life and lifelong

1465
01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:55.600
care is needed, then why was Ryan living in a

1466
01:28:55.680 --> 01:28:59.159
different state than his dad? When he died. Ryan died

1467
01:28:59.199 --> 01:29:04.880
in Florida. Ryan died in Florida, not Arizona. So I'm like,

1468
01:29:04.880 --> 01:29:06.920
what the hell what is going on here. I'm not

1469
01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:09.279
saying that Ryan didn't need help and care because he

1470
01:29:09.279 --> 01:29:13.800
did have a brain injury. That's indisputable. But his seizures also,

1471
01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:17.039
you know, those are legitimate. He did have seizures after

1472
01:29:17.079 --> 01:29:19.880
the shooting. I legit believe that. I do believe Ryan

1473
01:29:19.960 --> 01:29:22.960
sab when he says he suffered from seizures. But a

1474
01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:27.800
heroin overdose and a seizure are very different causes of death.

1475
01:29:29.279 --> 01:29:32.640
So I've got the police report that went along with it,

1476
01:29:32.760 --> 01:29:35.159
and this is what happened. Ryan was working at a

1477
01:29:35.159 --> 01:29:37.920
grocery store when his girlfriend called up there to talk

1478
01:29:37.960 --> 01:29:41.479
to him. They were paging him. He didn't answer. They

1479
01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:43.119
go out in the parking lot. They saw that his

1480
01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:45.560
car was still there. He drove a silver Catalog, So

1481
01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:47.560
since his car was still there, They're like, he's got

1482
01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:49.800
to be here somewhere. Well, they go to the bathroom

1483
01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:51.479
and they knock on the door because the door was

1484
01:29:51.520 --> 01:29:53.159
locked and they figured he was in the bathroom.

1485
01:29:53.479 --> 01:29:56.239
He wouldn't answer. They knelt down, they looked.

1486
01:29:56.039 --> 01:29:58.399
Underneath the door, and that's when they saw Ryan crumpled

1487
01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:01.000
on the floor. So they ran and got a key,

1488
01:30:01.439 --> 01:30:04.199
unlocked the door, and went into the restroom to try

1489
01:30:04.239 --> 01:30:07.920
to help him. About that same time, and EMT just

1490
01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:10.000
happened to walk into the store, I guess to go

1491
01:30:10.119 --> 01:30:12.680
buy something, and they called out to him, please come

1492
01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:16.119
help us, Please help us. So while workers called nine

1493
01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:18.840
to one one, this EMT comes over to help and

1494
01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:23.960
they started CPR. Well, the police arrive and they're looking

1495
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:27.119
in the bathroom and when they're looking in there, they

1496
01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:29.119
put you know, Ryan's been pulled out. They're working on him.

1497
01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:32.479
They noticed that there's an aquafina water bottle as well

1498
01:30:32.520 --> 01:30:35.039
as some paper towels that were folded up on the

1499
01:30:35.079 --> 01:30:39.279
back of the toilet tank lid with a spoon and

1500
01:30:39.439 --> 01:30:45.640
a syringe cap. On the floor right by Ryan was

1501
01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:51.439
a syringe. Ryan's girlfriend was the one who handled the

1502
01:30:51.520 --> 01:30:55.840
situation at the scene once you know, first of Ken

1503
01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:59.000
was notified it was Ryan's girlfriend, and this included she

1504
01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:04.159
refused to get police consent to search Ryan's car. So yeah,

1505
01:31:04.720 --> 01:31:08.600
Ryan lived with his girlfriend. They lived together in Florida.

1506
01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:13.560
So at the hospital, Ryan ends up passing away Ryan's

1507
01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:16.479
body was documented just like everybody else, and this included

1508
01:31:16.479 --> 01:31:20.039
a notation that there were visible track marks on his

1509
01:31:20.159 --> 01:31:24.720
left arm. Police went and spoke to the girlfriend again,

1510
01:31:25.079 --> 01:31:28.119
and the girlfriend advised the officer that Ryan had just

1511
01:31:28.159 --> 01:31:32.079
been released from prison and he was a recovering heroin addict.

1512
01:31:33.199 --> 01:31:35.119
So I want to be clear again right here, I'm

1513
01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:37.560
not bashing Ryan. Take it as you will, but I

1514
01:31:37.640 --> 01:31:41.119
promise you I'm not bashing Ryan. It is what it

1515
01:31:41.239 --> 01:31:44.640
is here. But when mistruths are spread and partial truths

1516
01:31:44.680 --> 01:31:48.720
are echoed, it can completely distort the truth and the facts.

1517
01:31:49.479 --> 01:31:55.039
Why why would this continue to be shared if not true?

1518
01:31:55.640 --> 01:31:58.560
Is it a parent trying to preserve his son's image.

1519
01:31:59.159 --> 01:32:04.039
Probably so, Probably so. No one wants to have to

1520
01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:06.720
address that he loves his son. No doubt this man

1521
01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:10.119
loves his son. Is it because the truth is probably

1522
01:32:10.159 --> 01:32:16.000
too hard to stomach? Probably so? Or is it still

1523
01:32:16.039 --> 01:32:22.159
tied in to one day winning a lawsuit. It just

1524
01:32:22.279 --> 01:32:26.399
should make you think you decide. I'm letting you decide.

1525
01:32:26.439 --> 01:32:30.239
Whatever the reason, it's just not accurate. The manner of

1526
01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:33.439
death is listed as accident and the cause of death

1527
01:32:33.520 --> 01:32:37.119
is listed as a heroin overdose. Nowhere does it say

1528
01:32:37.239 --> 01:32:44.239
seizure like nowhere. I would never share this information if

1529
01:32:44.279 --> 01:32:47.640
it didn't apply directly to this case and all of

1530
01:32:47.640 --> 01:32:53.560
the accusations that are flying. But Ryan's dad has continued

1531
01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:56.479
after his death to claim he died as the result

1532
01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:59.520
of a seizure, which I mean it could have caused

1533
01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:03.960
a brain bl that mentions also, But it's all linked

1534
01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:06.560
to the fact that the police didn't provide him proper

1535
01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:11.760
care during this investigation. Y'all, heroin is involved in this

1536
01:33:11.840 --> 01:33:14.800
that has nothing to do with the police. Whatever is

1537
01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:17.520
going on here, it should serve as a lesson on

1538
01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:22.119
many fronts, and one of those being the impact of

1539
01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:27.479
how horrible this case was is now somewhat diminished when

1540
01:33:27.560 --> 01:33:30.840
the lies about the case are sold in an effort

1541
01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:33.720
to weaponize it in the eyes of the media and

1542
01:33:33.760 --> 01:33:37.920
to attack that police department, the very people that worked

1543
01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:42.279
for years to solve this case. You know, Heather was

1544
01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:44.800
lost in all of this too, by the way, this

1545
01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:51.359
whole mess has lost Heather Kwan. Unfortunately, now, as you

1546
01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:54.680
can probably tell, this case is remembered as the police

1547
01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:58.760
versus Ryan, rather than Larry and Richie Carver versus Ryan

1548
01:33:58.800 --> 01:34:04.199
Waller and Heather quad On Heather lost her life. Ryan

1549
01:34:04.399 --> 01:34:09.880
was gravely injured, but he survived. And twenty years later,

1550
01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:14.079
what if I told you Detective Dalton and his family

1551
01:34:14.439 --> 01:34:19.359
are still receiving death threats based on media coverage about

1552
01:34:19.359 --> 01:34:24.119
this case that is incomplete or just partial from everything

1553
01:34:24.159 --> 01:34:29.600
I've seen, just to make this a more salacious storyline.

1554
01:34:29.760 --> 01:34:30.920
It's just so wrong.

1555
01:34:31.359 --> 01:34:33.560
It is twenty twenty six as of the time I'm

1556
01:34:33.600 --> 01:34:39.760
recording this, and there are still death threats received. I

1557
01:34:39.920 --> 01:34:44.520
found that Detective Dalton, even though y'all there was a

1558
01:34:44.560 --> 01:34:46.720
team of homicide detectives on this case, there was like

1559
01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:48.199
five of them. I have that too, I'll put it

1560
01:34:48.239 --> 01:34:51.159
on Patreon for you. There was multiple officers involved in this,

1561
01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:52.840
but because he was the one who did that twenty

1562
01:34:52.880 --> 01:34:55.479
five minute interview, he's the one who takes all the scrutiny.

1563
01:34:55.960 --> 01:34:59.199
And I found in further research that Detective Dalton had

1564
01:34:59.239 --> 01:35:03.319
to hire a company to scrub his entire existence from

1565
01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:08.039
the internet to protect his family. Still today, can you

1566
01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:11.079
imagine you show up for work one day, you do

1567
01:35:11.159 --> 01:35:14.279
the job that you have done with honors for thirty years,

1568
01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:17.359
and because you didn't solve what happened in the first

1569
01:35:17.399 --> 01:35:20.560
ten minutes, people think that you should die for it.

1570
01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:26.640
I've yet to hear any discussion that rises to that

1571
01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:31.520
level of anger for the fucking murderers. I don't know

1572
01:35:31.560 --> 01:35:33.680
why this has bothered me so deeply, but it has

1573
01:35:33.720 --> 01:35:36.520
because this happens all the time, all the time, this

1574
01:35:36.600 --> 01:35:39.800
happens that nobody looks at the whole case, nobody looks

1575
01:35:39.840 --> 01:35:44.279
at all of the information. Of course, hindsight is crystal clear.

1576
01:35:44.479 --> 01:35:47.640
Things could have been done better in this investigation, no doubt,

1577
01:35:47.680 --> 01:35:52.840
but nothing was done with malice, ill will or complete ineptness.

1578
01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:56.359
I've already got people sending me hate mail after just

1579
01:35:56.800 --> 01:36:00.439
one episode. But the difference is I want you to

1580
01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:03.479
know this as my listener. I'm committed to the truth

1581
01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:07.119
and I'm not swayed by public opinion. I can read

1582
01:36:07.319 --> 01:36:10.199
and I can think for myself. My goals have always

1583
01:36:10.239 --> 01:36:13.000
been in life to be a good and truthful person,

1584
01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:16.079
not the most popular person. And with that said, I

1585
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:19.560
am okay with not being liked by everyone. When I

1586
01:36:19.680 --> 01:36:22.239
have the facts in front of me, I'm good with it.

1587
01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:26.760
This entire case has left multiple lives destroyed and people

1588
01:36:26.800 --> 01:36:30.359
a heartbroken in all aspects of it. I tip my

1589
01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:33.439
hat to the Kwan family for taking the worst thing

1590
01:36:33.680 --> 01:36:36.680
to ever happen to them and use it for good,

1591
01:36:36.960 --> 01:36:40.159
making tangible changes to a law that holds the potential

1592
01:36:40.199 --> 01:36:44.439
to benefit so many people in the future. My heart

1593
01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:48.079
aches for Ryan's mama. She no doubt loved her boy

1594
01:36:48.399 --> 01:36:52.640
and she suffered an ongoing life altering trauma before losing

1595
01:36:52.720 --> 01:36:57.119
him to a battle that's very hard to overcome. I

1596
01:36:57.199 --> 01:37:00.399
hate that Heather had to lose her life and be

1597
01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:04.560
brain damaged for the rest of his life. And I

1598
01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:07.840
also hate that people today believe whatever they want to

1599
01:37:07.840 --> 01:37:12.520
believe without actually thinking or looking into it any further,

1600
01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:16.840
and continue to harass someone who had a good career

1601
01:37:17.960 --> 01:37:21.439
and was found on multiple fronts by the courts, by

1602
01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:25.000
everybody to not have done something he's being accused of.

1603
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:29.199
And that is the detective in this case. And before

1604
01:37:29.239 --> 01:37:33.199
I wrap this up, a little reminder for the self

1605
01:37:33.199 --> 01:37:38.239
appointed experts with a microphone and a Wi Fi connection. Okay,

1606
01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:44.760
gossip isn't journalism, and repeating rumors with dramatic background music

1607
01:37:45.039 --> 01:37:49.399
doesn't magically turn you into a trusted source. Some folks

1608
01:37:49.720 --> 01:37:53.760
spend more time chasing clicks than fact checking and treating

1609
01:37:53.800 --> 01:38:01.119
speculation like evidence. And Facebook comments like sworn testimony, research

1610
01:38:01.239 --> 01:38:06.119
is considered optional when outrage is paying you better. Having

1611
01:38:06.159 --> 01:38:10.319
a million followers doesn't make you credible, it makes you popular.

1612
01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:15.439
And look, mistakes can happen. That happens. I make mistakes,

1613
01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:20.960
but facts can't change. And when you get major facts wrong,

1614
01:38:21.439 --> 01:38:25.439
you are not informing the public, you're inciting them. We

1615
01:38:25.479 --> 01:38:28.079
should all aim to seek the truth. That is what

1616
01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:31.279
justice is all about. You know, real life is scary

1617
01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:35.079
enough without people out here posting hearsay and calling it content.

1618
01:38:36.159 --> 01:38:40.439
That's dangerous and it has real consequences for real people.

1619
01:38:41.279 --> 01:38:43.920
It's hard enough dealing with the lion criminals without a

1620
01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:46.760
pissed off, misinformed public breathing down your neck as well.

1621
01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:51.680
So take note, y'all. I want you to think, scrutinize

1622
01:38:51.720 --> 01:38:54.000
when you get your information and where you get your

1623
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:57.119
information from, because from where I'm sitting, it's hard to

1624
01:38:57.119 --> 01:39:00.319
tell who's lying more, the crooks or the media. Both

1625
01:39:00.359 --> 01:39:02.239
of them seem to be playing fast and loose with

1626
01:39:02.279 --> 01:39:05.039
the facts. And when that is done, the audience is

1627
01:39:05.079 --> 01:39:06.920
the only group of people that are getting robbed.