The Bad Wife : Kelly Gissendaner

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast. Or I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's kJ You're back with another episode of Unspeakable. How's your week go? And you know I'm gonna ask you that I can tell you this. It's so damn hot outside.

1:06 I have just been walking around mad and thirsty all damn day. I don't know about you, but I can't catch your break. I need football season. I need a big cold icy and a good deep tissue massage before I just get into a bad attitude. Can I get a n ame in for that someone out there? I'm just tired of being hot. But it's Wednesday, We're halfway through the week, and you're gonna get a banging episode. And so I want to jump right into it, and we're gonna head to the great state of Georgia, and this is where a little peach named Kelly lived. I know it's a great name, right, you love it? Well. Kelly was born in Georgia and her early years weren't the greatest. So things that you would expect whenever I follow up with that sentence, things like poverty was a consistent issue. And with that came the unfortunate common instance of abuse. And that abuse was in multiple forms, not just one Kelly. He was a subject to boomshit. Kelly was subjected to physical abuse, mental abuse, as well as sexual abuse as a little girl. And according to sworn affidavits, which I did not read myself, I want to be clear on this, but they were reasonably sourced, she had been molested by multiple men throughout her youth. Her father and her mother had divorced whenever she was really young, but her mom amazingly met and married a new man just eight days after her divorce. So I'm sure that

2:40 her picking skills were good and she was just making good decisions for old Kelly girl. And as the story goes, as you can probably imagine, Kelly was then molested by her now stepfather when she turned about ten years old. So his whole shtick on this was he complained that they had gotten a new mattress and he said that it was on comfortable, and so he would go and sleep in Kelly's bed with her. This went on for about six months, under the guys that her mattress leg didn't hurt his back and it was more comfortable, and this was obviously a ploy to have access to the child without raising any eyebrows. And on top of that, the adults in the home fought constantly in front of Kelly.

3:21 There was just chaos and this just never ending cycle of abuse and misery and dysfunction underneath that roof. By the time that she was in high school, she did secretly dream of a way out to get far away from this life that she was in and to go and create a life of her own, but those dreams were kept quiet as her days in school weren't much fun either. According to Kelly, she wasn't the most popular kid, as you can imagine, facing what she's already facing. She was bullied, she wore glasses, she was picked on because her clothes were old and and they just hand me downs were common. She didn't have the cool gear to wear to school. And then when her senior year rolled around, there were mumblings that Kelly might be pregnant. It wasn't until she was about six months long that she couldn't hide it anymore, and all of those rumors seemed to be true. So when the other students found out about it for sure, that was whenever the laughing and the bullying only intensified. Not to mention that she would never say who the baby's dad was. Now. One report claimed that she was date raped and so that's why she didn't share who the baby's father was, but another report said she just didn't want anyone to know who the father was, while yet another one that I read said that it was either another student or a guy that she knew. So I don't know the answer of who

4:54 her baby daddy was, but my guess in this situation is that she probably wasn't sure. She she probably did not know. Again, I can't stand on that, but it just seems to be what the situation was. But with all of that and facing everything that she had to date, Kelly would graduate from high school, which was a huge win for her, and then just two weeks after graduation in nineteen eighty six, she gave birth to that first baby, a baby boy that she would name Brandon. Now, obviously it goes without saying the dad wasn't involved, because we don't even know who the dad was. So Kelly continued to live at home with her mom, and with that, even though the huge accomplishment of high school graduation, it kind of just went thud from there because she was a single mom. She's living in an impoverished home, she was struggling not only to work but to make money, and then no real means for outside care for the baby made that even more complicated. She did, however, start dating a classmate of hers, and his name was Jeff Banks, who very soon after that they started dating, asked her to marry him, which they did just a few months after that, but the marriage would only last about six months.

6:08 And when Kelly's dad, whom she had somewhat rekindled her own relationship with, because remember her parents divorced when she was very young and he never really came around at that point from that point forward, but she had rekindled a relationship with her bio dad, and that relationship with this new husband she had was cut really short whenever allegedly her dad went after Jeff with a shotgun because he didn't pass bread at dinner. Okay, there was a big uproar about bread. So it was over. That relationship in that marriage went coudput and that was the end of that. So Kelly moved back home. She was now nineteen years old, and she wasn't really thriving. She was broke, single, and she wasn't going anywhere fast. But in March of nineteen eighty nine, Kelly's life would take an unexpected turn for the better. Through a chance meeting with friends, Kelly would be introduced to a guy named Doug, and Doug was different than anyone that Kelly had ever met. Let's start with the fact that he was so nice. It made me think of that song that's popular right now, because I like it when you're nice, like it when nice to me. You know that song Stella Lefty or something like that sings it. He was just so nice.

7:31 She was used to being surrounded by people that weren't nice, and that we're always yelling and fighting and carrying on, and he just had this air of calm about him. He also came from a good family and he had values. He had morals and values along with the fact that he also had goals for himself. He had aspirations. He worked as a mechanic, He was a hard worker, and he had a plan for himself. Handsome and tall were also two things to add that check check on that list. Right, he was a tall, handsome dude. And considering that Kelly was six feet tall herself, she was a big girl. This was awesome. She had a guy taller than her and he was nice and smart and driven. Another thing like he almost sounds too good to be true, but he also didn't drink and he didn't do drugs. His favorite commitment was church. Yeah, he went to church a lot. Well.

8:31 Doug was very smitten, very fast with Kelly, And like something out of a fairy tale was the fact that Kelly's baby boy that she had had already took to Doug just as quickly as Doug took to him. Little Brandon became Doug's number one pal right from the start. He loved toting that boy around, being the father figure that that baby needed. And no mind that he wasn't biologically his child. If you asked, Doug, Brandon was his boy from day one, and everyone could see it, the love for both mom and son. It was real and it was genuine. And Douve also brought about good changes in Kelly's life, and one of those being church. That became something that was now a new routine for her.

9:22 She would go in every Wednesday and every Sunday. That was their routine. They would go in, they would be in the pew, listening to the Word and growing in faith together. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, and in the same breath did Doug so love Kelly's only son that he was willing to give her his entire world. So when Doug asked her to marry him, it was a no brainer. Absolutely yes, Oh my gosh, Yes, the wedding bells would ring and love would be celebrated. Not only had Doug found his soulmate, but the man would now become Brandon's official dad. He had a son, and as you can probably guess, two pink lines showed up very soon, and Doug was now even more thrilled. He was ecstatic. He was over the moon when he found out that he was now gonna have a biological child. He swept Brandon up in his arms.

10:22 He hugged that little boy tight. Did you hear that, Bubba? You're gonna be a big brother and I'm gonna be a daddy again. This is great. Times could not have been any more exciting. It was August of nineteen ninety when their daughter, Kayla was born, and they had settled into a home in the Atlanta suburb of Beauford. Originally that area had served as the railway line between Atlanta and Charlotte, North Carolina, but now it was a growing city, and as the kids grew, you would be hard pressed to know which kid was Doug's bio kid and which one was because he loved those children equally, and he loved them both with a fierceness. The kids both also knew him as daddy. There was no difference. Brandon knew no other man in his life that would be the father figure. He was always there to tuck them and at night. He woke them up in the morning, and he gave them kisses and hugs before he left for work.

11:24 If they had a special event, he was there. No questions asked, but in nineteen ninety one, there would be a new stress that would be added to the marriage, and that was the fact that Doug lost his job. Now Doug was the primary breadwinner of the home, so this was a huge blow to the family. Things had gotten so bad financially that they had to sell their home, and from what I understand, they may have even moved in with Kelly's mom for a short period, if I remember that correctly. But Doug was a man's man, and he knew, all right, I got to pull myself up by the bootstraps, make some changes here, and I may have to sacrifice, But he was going to do what he had to do for his little family, and in this case, he decided that he was going to join the army. Now, why why would he run off and join the army while you know he's got a family at home. Well, it's because the steady income and the benefits that would the army would provide him is exactly the stability that he would be able to pass on and give his wife and his kids. The trade in his mind, was worth his time away from his family so long as they were taken care of. So shortly after he joined the army, he got the news that he was going to be shipped off to Germany, halfway around the world. Oh man, right, so far? Why did they have to send you so far away? But he had to do what he had to do, and he was committed to doing that. But on the bright side, he fit in really well with army life. His fellow

12:56 soldiers liked him, his supervisors gave their out of approval to him, and so he was just really succeeding and he was doing well. A month after he was stationed in Germany, Kelly and the kids followed suit because they didn't want to be apart from him that long, and even if that meant they had to travel halfway around the world, Kelly still wanted to be close to her husband. So Doug was consistent in the fact that he would make his money and then give his earnings to Kelly for her and the kids. And things were okay for a while, but Doug would still be away from them for days and sometimes weeks at a time, even after they had moved to Germany. So whether it was boredom or just poor decision making, I don't know you can decide on this one. But Kelly would throw parties at the house, and Doug was not a big fan of that.

13:47 While he was gone, no one, I would argue, no man, at least in the military once their wife gallivant and around with other fellow soldiers while they're gone. I just think it made him very uncomfortable and so draw annoyance on both sides in the marriage. Because of this, Kelly said, you know what, maybe I should just go back home with the kids. You finish your tour here and we'll just have to do this long distance. So she moved back home to Georgia with the kids while Doug was completing his service requirements. Now it was the following year, in nineteen ninety one, whenever Doug would come back home stateside, and when he got back it was pretty evident that the damage had already been done to their marriage. Kelly decided that she felt maybe it was her time and that maybe she should now join the army. Maybe I should go do it. You went and did it, now I'll go do it. But at that point Doug was really just fed up with the whole situation and how they weren't communicating, they weren't getting along, and He's like, look if you don't want our family and you think you need to go and leave. Now, you know, I did this as a sacrifice for us. If you think it's your time to leave, then why don't we just not have a family if that's how you want to be.

14:59 But he was wasn't dropping the kids though, okay, just her. He still was a very devoted father to his children. But by nineteen ninety three, their divorce was final and they were done. So Kelly was still in her army life, but she hated it. It was not what she thought it would be when she was the one actually there, and she figured that she had to do something to get out of there. And the only thing that she could really think to do to get out of there would be to get pregnant. And guess what, that's exactly what she did. She ended up getting pregnant by a fellow soldier. So when that happened, Kelly was sent back home to finish out her pregnancy. When she found out just a few months shy of giving birth that the father of this new baby ended up passing away. So he had been diagnosed with cancer and he succumbed to that before the baby was even born. A few months later, which was that following November, she would give birth to a baby boy that she named Jonathan Dakota, which they lovingly would call Cody. So she was now a single mom and she was trying to move on with life, as was Doug. And you know, they're divorced and they're doing their own thing. Well, they both had some unimportant dating relationships respectively, but it's in this situation that they found that the heart wants with the heart wants, even

16:29 when it's tough, and amazingly, Doug was still thinking about his ex wife. Had they not tried hard enough? Did we really give it our all? We were dealing with a lot of stress. There was a lot of things that was happening. Was it really over over or did we just flash out and end things before we should have? And it turned out Kelly was actually thinking about Doug too, the same thoughts of maybe we could have done more, maybe we should have worked things out. So Douve decided one day he couldn't take it anymore. He picked with the phone and he called Kelly just to talk. Okay, no arguing, just talk. There's a lot of history and children were impacted by the breakup of their family, and so they got to talking, and sure enough that talking turned into hanging out, which turned into a rekindled spark, and the things just were going well when just like that, marriage number two came for the both of them, but with the original spouse. So they're both on their second marriage but with the same spouse. That's kind of funny.

17:39 It kind of made me wonder too. I said to myself, I'm like, do you say that this is my second husband if he's actually the same as your first husband, or you just say this is my husband. I don't know, but maybe wonder for a second. But what about that random third child that was now in the family. Made you kind of wonder about that, right because they got divorced and then she has this baby. Well, hopefully from what I've told you so far, you should know Doug by now, and he did the mature thing. That child was brought into this world fatherless, and Doug was never going to treat that baby any different. It wasn't his fault, and so Doug took on that child as his own too.

18:19 The family unit was back together. He had a bonus son to boot, and as far as Doug was concerned more love to share. What a great guy, What a great great guy. So by nineteen ninety seven they had been married a total of about seven years. They had these three children between them, and life was lifing when on Saturday, February seventh, Kelly and Doug had different plans for the evening. The kids were going to be staying with a sitter, and Kelly had plans to go out with some friends, some dinner, maybe some dancing, and just go blow off some steam and have a girl's night. Well, Doug had this couple that he was friends with. They were called the Nesbits, and they lived nearby, and he had promised them that he would go over there and he would help them work on a vehicle that was having some trouble that night, which was something that Doug liked to do. Tinkering was his jam, and Doug wasn't afraid to get greasy. So they decided that they would go do their own thing that night and they would meet up that evening. So after the fun of the night ended, Kelly returned back home and she was kind of surprised to find that Doug was still over at the Nesbit's house. So she got into her Jammy's, and she took her sleeping pill and before she fell asleep, she slipped into bed and was hanging out and she dozed off and went to sleep. So the next morning rolls around and when she woke up, she reaches over and Doug wasn't in the bed. So she got up

19:49 and she looked for him, Doug, Doug, you know, are you here, Doug? Are you outside? Where did he go? Because he wasn't in the bed, he wasn't in the house. After she checked all the rooms, she went outside, his car was not in the driveway. So she figured, well, maybe he stayed at his friend's house. Maybe they stayed up late drinking or something and he stayed there. But that really wasn't normal, okay, So she was worried about this because he didn't typically do that. So she grabs the phone and she calls over to the Nesbits to see if Doug was there, but they said, no, he's not here, and she said, oh, well, what time did he leave and they said no, he left about ten o'clock last night. He was headed home last night. So alarmed by this, she hangs up the phone and she's like, oh my god, I gotta call his parents. Maybe he went to his parents' house. Maybe, you know, that's the case, that makes sense. So she called his parents. But when she explained that Doug hadn't come home and he wasn't home, his parents said, well, we haven't seen him or heard from him either today. At least he's not here. Well, by one pm, Kelly was frantic. She did not know where he went. She couldn't find him anywhere any of his normal stomping ground. So she made a call to police.

21:02 And this is when she faced the typical setback that is mentioned a lot in true crime cases. It's that it hasn't been twenty four hours yet. He's a grown man. He can do whatever he wants to do. And there was no emergency. There was no circumstances that would lend anyone to believe that something had happened to him. He just didn't come home. So she would wait the additional twenty four hours. Doug would not show up, and so she would call the police again and she would report him missing. So it's been long enough now, no word from him. Nothing. Police were now looking for a thirty year old Doug. He was classified as a missing person and so they go through all the regular things that they're going to go to. You know, what was he last seen wearing, She says, he when I saw him leave, he had on a black jacket, his jeans, a watch, he had on his wedding ring. And police are kind of wondering, could he have had an accident? Did he maybe wreck because it had been raining the night before.

22:00 They go looking for him. They don't find him. They don't even find his car, nothing, no sign of him. So two days later, a heavily heavily wooded area would be being patrolled by a park ranger. So this morning was cool, it was brisk, and this Georgia ranger was patrolling out in his area. Whenever he came down this road and he saw a car that was stopped and parked off to the side. So he pulls up and he parks his unit. He gets out to go check on the vehicle, and as he's walking up, the exterior of the car looks fine. It hasn't been in a wreck, nothing huge. But as he got up on it, he realized, oh my god, the interior of the car was completely and totally burned out. It was destroyed. Even the tag was destroyed. So he went around and he looked at the windshield and he was still able to make out the VEN number. So he calls into the sheriff's office gives them this VEN number, and that's whenever police tell him that the listed owner of this vehicle was Kelly's husband, Doug.

23:09 Their last name was Gisson Danner. So, realizing that something bad has happened for sure, now I mean this car is burned up, a detective was called in to come to the area of the burned out car. So the area was noted that it was parked in a pretty desolate wooded area. You would not be traveling down this road for just no reason. Believing that to be the case, Doug should have been right there in that area if something had happened to him. So search parties were put together and they go out searching for Doug. They are walking the terrain, and they even put a heat seeking helicopter in the air and that was deployed that was flying around trying to see if they could locate him.

23:54 But with all of this effort and these people in time that was put in, they still did not find Doug. Well, no one likes to be the bearer of bad news. But police had to notify Kelly about the car, and not only that they found it, but the condition of it. So when they go to the house and they tell her we found the car, but listen, it's been burned up. Kelly became inconsolable, an absolute wreck, because this did not make sense. Life was going good, you know, we were just going out for a good time. He was going to work on a car. You know, Doug's a responsible person. He didn't take risks. How the hell could his car end up burned on a rural roadside. So she's panicking, she's freaking out, but the kids are at home. So an investigator pulls her to the side and it's like, come here, let's come talk over here. And he's like, look, you know, I don't want to alarm any other people or the kids or anything, but is there anything going on that someone may want him dead or anything bad to happen to him? Well that just ramped Kelly up even more, and she was adamant, No, absolutely not. He is a good man and he is a good dad.

25:01 He takes care of all of our kids, he takes care of me. He has no enemies that I could even name. Okay, this is completely and totally out of left field. She told the police. The last people that saw Doug would have been the Nesbits. I called them. They told me that he was at their house. He didn't come home from their house. So the police tracked the Nesbits down and went to go have a word with them and asked some questions. So the Nesbits did confirm exactly what Kelly had told them, that he was last at their house. But they said we saw him leaving around ten o'clock. They said, expand on that we need more than that. What exactly was going on? And they say, okay, well, he ate some dinner with us, and after they you know, they worked on the car.

25:45 He ate some dinner with us, and then we were walking him out. We were chatting, and then the husband Nesbit, mister Nesbit, said yeah, oh yeah, we got some spark plugs. I pulled some spark plugs that I had that were extra and I gave them to Doug his car and he was like, oh, thanks, whatever, and then he got in his car and he drove off. That was it. We didn't see him after I gave him the spark plugs. So police mapped the Nesbits home to Doug and Kelly's home, and what they realized is that it was really kind of a straight shot giver or take from one house to the other. And the reason that that mattered was that Doug said he was going home. But Doug's car was found five miles roughly off course of that route, so he obviously was not going straight home. Considering where the car turned up. Now, had he gotten you have to ask yourself a lot of questions, even things that are uncomfortable when you're trying to figure this out. If he had gotten that far off course, had he done so possibly to hurt himself. Well, detectives didn't really think that was the case, because he still would have been at least close by. You know, you go, maybe he burned up his car and then went and shot himself or something. Well, he wasn't there. So the fact that he wasn't there and the condition of the car being burned up really was telling police that someone must have harmed him. This just didn't look like anything else. So the search parties would continue to go out day after

27:16 day after day looking for him out in the woods, but they weren't coming up with anything, So, feeling that more coverage was better, Kelly decided she was going to contact the news and have them come make a story about this. Please put it out there. My husband didn't come home. I want to plead for a safer turn. Whatever I can do, I want people to know. They say, sure, no problem, and so the media shows up, they set up their cameras and they decide to do the interview and what looks to be their daughter's bedroom because there's light, pink walls or stuffed animals atop the headboard, and Kelly is just sitting on the side of the bed kind of with this far stare, and they're asking her kind of explain what's going on, and she she got really choked up, and she said, look, I just want him to walk back through the door. I just want him to call That's all I need. But you know, if anybody has seen him or knows where he is, please just I need him to call home. Something. So as the investigation and this news coverage continued, it really started to bring about more questions than answers. And I say this because after those first initial findings, Doug's parents reached out to detectives and Doug's senior. He was named after his dad. Doug Senior told police that he just didn't think that the marriage was that good and it had gotten bad since they remarried, and when he was pressed on that, Doug Senior said specifically that he felt like they were drowning financially, that she spent too much money,

28:49 he had ruined his son's credit. She would go out partying and she went to bars, and his son was the one that was always taking care of the kids. But Kelly did not see it that way at all. She's you know. They argued like any other couple, and yes they had divorced once in the past, but they were back together, they had gotten married, and it was like his parents were just still bitter about the first divorce because it had gotten kind of ugly. So police wanted to go check out other aspects of their life, and so they went to Kelly's work. After that discussion that they had with Doug's parents and co workers, when they were kind of questioned they would shed some insight to what they described as a formally contemplated or complicated rather situation. The man that Kelly had moved on with after the birth of her second child was supposedly still in contact with Kelly when she had first started back dating Doug again, but as far as they knew, all of that had since settled. They had cut things off after Kelly and Doug made it official that they were back together. So police wanted to know what was his name?

30:07 Who was this guy? And that's whenever they gave the name Greg Owen, And it just so happened that Greg was the brother of one of Kelly's coworkers. So the story goes that Kelly had was at work one day and she had seen a picture of Greg on his sister's desk and said, who's that And her coworker said, Oh, that's my brother. You know, I'll set y'all up if y'all want to go on a date. And she was like, sure, that sounds fun. And that's where that relationship had originally taken off from. Kelly and Greg seemed to get together well and go together well because they had similar upbringings, which that made them really be able to relate to one another. And this is kind of on the Misery Understands misery spectrum. Domestic violence was something that was chronic the in Greg's home growing up, and Greg wasn't somebody that had really launched in life. He didn't ever, his name was never in the drawing for success in relationships or you know, big time wins or anything like that.

31:13 So when he found Kelly and they had all of this in common and they understood one another, this became something rather fresh for him, something really new. Kelly was fun, she was outgoing, which was something that he really liked. She commanded a room, and she drew attention, which to him was never anything that he had a lot of experience entertaining. So to him, Kelly was just a total catch. Really, he felt like he was dating up whenever they were dating, because the truth about Greg was that he was an alcoholic, He did not make good drinking decisions, and he didn't even have his own car. So he was the total opposite of Doug when Kelly met him. But since things had gone so bad with Doug, who did have it all together, it didn't really matter to Kelly back when she was dating him that Greg didn't. Stability didn't always mean better in Kelly's eyes, and this was proof of that.

32:09 It was just different. The reason he didn't have a car too, By the way was that he had gotten a DWI arrest for some time prior, but Kelly didn't care. You know, they had a lot of fun together and getting to know one another. But after a while, stability really seemed to be something that Kelly had messed up in the long run, and you know, it was a better choice in the long run to be with someone who was stable. I think we all know that. But but Greg had been fun. It had been fun for a while to drink and party and do all those things. But you can't do that all the time. And that's kind of what they were doing. And Greg would never be able to give her nor her kids the life at the level that Doug really had. It is just the way it was. And that was the time when Kelly had started to kind of think about Doug Moore, and Dug called her and so she was starting awaigh her options. Doug was wanting to win her back at this point, and so Kelly finally made her choice, and she chose Doug. Doug is the better choice in my life. Well, as police learned about all of this, it got them wondering, probably the same thing that you're wondering, is did Greg possibly have something to do with Doug's disappearance because there may have been anger or jealousy or any of those factors between two men and a woman who they're fighting over.

33:30 So police went back, but first they wanted to speak with Kelly. Their plan here was they wanted to ask her who was Greg, and they really wanted to see if she would lie about that, would she come clean with the fact that that was a lover and that she may have been talking to him at the same time she was dating Doug again, or what she would do. So they brought it up, but she didn't lie. She told him the truth. She said we had dated in the past, but she had ended the relationship. She decided that she wanted to get back with her ex husband, but Greg simply could not let it go. Greg, according to Kelly, became obsessed and threatened to get back at her for the breakup and it really had gone very very bad whenever the breakup happened. So this was the first real solid lead for right now. She was clear, I'm scared of Greg, though I don't want to be near him, I don't want to have anything to do with him. I'm so afraid of it. Matter of fact, I went and bought a gun to protect me and my children from him, Like he's dangerous, so please don't have him come over here or anything like that. And they're like, no, of course not, we'll go talk to him.

34:40 So they look up Greg's record before they go to talk to him, and he had no serious criminal record. We're not looking at a guy who was doing arm robberies and burglary and all that other stuff. He was actually rather soft spoken and mild. He made poor decisions, no doubt, but he wasn't He had no history of violence against to others. He was living in a trailer park by himself. Whenever they went to go find him, and whenever he was asked about Kelly, he said, yeah, we dated in the past, but we broke up whatever, And so police then mentioned that Doug was missing. They couldn't find him, and it was kind of interesting that Kelly had an ex and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

35:26 I'm a lot of things. You know, I'm a drunk, but i am not. I don't hurt people. I've never hurt anybody. That's not something that's even in my wheelhouse of thinking. And if you're trying to say I had something to do with that. I do not, and I don't want to be a part of that. So they asked him. All right, they give him the date and they say what were you doing this night? And so Doug kind of checks into it and he's like, oh, I was at my friend Lee's house that night. You can ask him. I was there. We were watching a movie and I never left the house. I was with him that night. So police go and they contact Lee, and when Lee was questioned, he vouched, yes, that is it's true. My buddy Greg was over here. We were watching a movie all night, We had fun. Whatever. So they're kind of stumped at this point. They don't have a lot to go on. And twelve more days would go by with no sighting of Doug. Twelve days of those children not getting tucked in at night by their daddy, not getting woken up by him in the morning. He wasn't going to any of their little events. I mean, it's a huge hole in all of their lives, not to mention Kelly doesn't have her husband. Twelve days. Well, that initial ranger, the one that had found his vehicle, it really started to bother him. The more he kept thinking about that car. He would go home at night and he would continuously think about it, but not for the reason of just oh that car that was weird, it was burned up. It was that Doug. The more he learned about the guy that was missing, Doug reminded

36:59 this ranger of himself, and he was putting himself in Doug's shoes. Now, the only difference between Doug and this ranger was that Doug was white and this ranger was black. Okay, But other than that, they had a lot in common. They had both served in the army, they both had three kids, and so this ranger really pondered it. You know, where was this man? They never served together, but it was like this unspoken drive to find a fellow soldier, almost like no guy left behind. You know, I didn't know him, but I want to know what happened to him. And so daily he would do his job, but with added purpose. At this time, he wanted to find the gentleman who owned that burned out car and get him back home to his kids. It just bothered him. So twelve days had passed and he's continuously doing his job and looking for this guy. Whenever he turns down a dirt road out in this area and he's going in the woods and he's looking upward where there's kind of like a hill area while he's driving. When he looked up while he was patrolling, he noticed that there was an old it looked like a trash bag that caught his attention up in the brush, and he said, it looked like a trash bag that had been out in the sun so long that the color of it had started to change. How it's you know, trash bag's black, but then it almost turned like a blue, hazy kind of color once it has been out so long. So he decided to get out and inspect it and see

38:31 what it was. So he was about fifty seventy five yards from the road and he had to walk up and approach it. And as he got close, he realized quickly that that is not a bag, It was a person, and that person was not moving and that bluish blackish that he was seeing was that person who had been there for a while, and the clothing that he was seeing there. So immediately he got on the phone and he called for police. Police come and they mark off the scene. So they come up to the victim, and I say victim because he's clearly dead out in the middle of the woods where he doesn't belong. And they could tell a few things initially that this was a male, he was white, and he had met a very very violent death. Whatever had happened to him. The man was laying face down whenever they first got to him. Well, when it came time to roll him over, they grab him from one side and they roll him up. They were horrified when they did it to find that one whole side of this man's face and neck were gone.

39:37 There were multiple stab wounds that were believed to be the cause of death, but due to all of the animal and insect activity that had gone on over the last twelve days, it really wasn't very clear what had happened to him. The animals had consumed portions of him. He had been decomposing for twelve days, which also now meant that the bugs were using his body as a home for them to lay their eggs, which brought maggots and all the nastiness that comes with the territory. So the police decided, now that they've assessed the wounds and what they think happened here they reach into his pockets, and when they reached into his front pocket, they pull out a set of spark plugs. And that's whenever they reached into his back pocket where a wallet was still there, and whenever they pulled that out and opened it up, they found the ID of the missing Doug Gisenberg. Now Doug wore glasses normally, but he didn't have him on, so that was kind of curious. But they were soon located nearby where his body was. This man was Doug, and not only that, he was dressed in the very same clothing that his wife remembered him to be wearing when she last saw him, so that, you know, we have a pretty good timeline here that it had to have happened to him after ten pm, but before about eight am the next day. So a very large funeral was held for Doug about three days after he was found, and there was a massive turnout because Doug was a

41:11 very well liked guy. His family was well known and they were well liked people too, super nice ceremony. Everybody there was repeating the same thing, you know, what a great guy this. I can't believe this happened. He's such a good guy, Kelly, you know what's happening there. She is overwhelmed. She threw herself on top of the casket and just sobbed. She had just you know, they had just gotten back together basically, you know, they just rekindled this marriage, and now he's gone forever. Just didn't seem fair. Well, detectives did go and attend the funeral in not police clothing, but you know, in regular clothing because they wanted to watch and see who all was there as well as who wasn't there, and just to watch behavior. Well, Kelly's grief was profound and she was very clearly dishoveled. And sometimes killers will be someone close to the victim and they'll go to the funeral. But overall, no one really stood out as someone that would have been an enemy or someone that they were eyeing that may could have done this. When the autopsy report came back, Doug's cause of death would be shown to be it was a homicide.

42:20 He had been stabbed four times and this was in the neck and in the back as well as beaten about the head with a blunt force object. So his death was clearly not a suicide. It was clearly a homicide, and Doug did appear to have been killed at the spot where his body lay. This was not a secondary location for his body to have been brought or something like that. So now everyone's just dumbfounded. They don't know how this could have happened, why this could have happened. But a few more days would pass. More days would pass, and somebody in the commune was starting to feel some type of way. Someone who knew Kelly, knew her pretty well and felt like she needed to come forward to the police and come clean. Who was this person, Well, it was actually a very very good friend of Kelly's, but what she had to share was less than friendly.

43:20 She told police that she knew that Greg was still or that Kelly was still seeing Greg while still married to Doug. And they're like, well, we know that they were talking still, but once they got remarried, that they had cut it off. No, no, no, no, no, she said, no, they were still seeing each other. Police said, oh, really, like currently right now? She says, yeah, And you know, I'm pretty confident that I know what I'm talking about, because she said it wasn't just a gut feeling. I can pretty much confirm they were sleeping together because I am the one who dropped Kelly off at a hotel to meet him, and she was married to Doug, so I think she was kind of feeling bad for her role and dropping her off. So please go really well, let's check into this and just see how true it is.

44:11 So they pull the phone records, and sure enough, they find that there were a lot of calls between Kelly and Greg, and especially near the date of Doug's death. So it really did seem that a secret affair was seemingly being uncovered here. Well, based on the phone records alone, Kelly's description of her and Doug's or Greg's relationship, or lack thereof, was kind of shot to hell now, right, because if Kelly was as afraid of Greg as she had made it out to be when she said I'm scared of him. I even got a gun because I'm so afraid of him, then why would they have spoken over forty times in the last few weeks. It's an obvious question, But what really raised eyebrows was that a majority of the phone calls between the two of them were initiated by Kelly herself. She was calling him, So police had an issue, though they could not get past the fact that Kelly's alibi was solid. If she had something to do with this, I don't know how she could have been there because people who were out with her put her there the entire time that night. I mean she was out with them when the murder took place.

45:30 Greg his alibi was also solid. Remember his friend Lee. Greg's friend Lee was interviewed and he confirmed that he was there with him all night. So even if they were having an affair, they had alibies. So how do we figure this out of what might have happened. Well, that's when they decided, they being police, decided to go back and speak to that friend Lee, and they really wanted to apply the pressure hard on him, and they said, we just want to interview again you again to kind of firm up some stuff. Well, when he was reinterviewed and the pressure really started being applied, Lee's story started to change just a little bit, and once the crack was started, it fell apart. And that's when he admitted that he lied about Greg being there the entire time that night, because he said Greg did leave at one point to go buy beer and he was gone for a good while. So Okay, well how did he Where did he go? Because he doesn't have a car, y'all remember the DWI. How would he get from A to B?

46:36 And that's when Lee said someone came and picked him up. I don't know who it was, but someone came and picked him up. So police are like, oh, okay, well now we may have two people here, two suspects. So that's when they go back to Greg and they say, Greg, we got we gotta have another discussion with you, another talk. And this time when they were talking to him, he was faced with some obvious problems in his origin claim, like the fact that your friend who said you were there all night now kind of told us you weren't. So he now admitted to police once all of this was kind of broken down, that he had been seeing Kelly and that they had continued the affair after Doug and Kelly had remarried. All right, at least he's being honest and he's telling us this. But he did tell police this. He said, I asked Kelly, why don't you just divorce Doug again? Like why are we having to play this game of back and forth? And Kelly told him that she couldn't because he just kept coming back.

47:40 He would just keep coming back to her. She couldn't get rid of him. The only way she would probably ever be able to get rid of him would be to kill him. Well, Greg thought that she was joking, but came to learn very quickly that she was serious. That she would have to kill him if she wanted to get rid of him. That's whenever she asked Greg if he would help her do it. In her mind, the only way that she and Greg could be together forever would be if Doug was out of the picture. So it's like, well, why would she even remarry him? Then, if y'all were going to continue this relationship, why would she even remarry him? And that's when another bomb was dropped right then on police and Greg pretty much lays it out. Kelly had been planning Doug's death since before she and Doug even got back together married officially. This wasn't just regret over getting back with him. This was an actual plan and it had a lot of benefits to it. Kelly never intended to end things with her lover Greg from the jump. While Doug was wanting and his family back and was working hard to get his family back, Kelly's intentions were less than noble. She went along with the idea of getting back together and even

49:10 went to the extent of remarrying Doug for a completely different reason than missing and loving him. She had a plan. Her plan was to get back with Doug and convince him, yes, let's get married again. Let's start our life over again. We were meant to be when they got married. That's whenever she would take out a life insurance policy on him, which she did. I'm not sure if it was ten or fifteen thousand dollars because I saw it multiple places and it was different numbers in both, but we'll say up to fifteen thousand dollars. And she also knew that if she married him, Doug was going to take care of the family. And part of that plan that they worked together was that Doug would buy them a house that they were going to live in together, and then she would have Doug killed. She would cash that life insurance policy, she'd get to keep the house because her name is on it, and then she and Greg would be able to run off in the sunset together. So as they started to make this plan together to kill Doug, she wanted to make sure that it looked like a robbery, which is exactly why she told the police. Whenever they said what was he last seen wearing? She was kind of general about his jeans and his shirt, but she made sure to say he was wearing his wedding ring and that watch, because if Greg was to kill him, then Greg would take those items and this would really validate this claim that it must have been a robbery

50:42 gone wrong. February seventh was not a date by chance that this had taken place either. February seventh was chosen pretty quickly as the must kill by date because he was going to be out of the house and Kelly got invited to go out with friends that night for dancing. When she got that invite, that is whenever it sealed Doug's fate. But how could this be done if Greg didn't have a car and she needed to go out and be seen by everybody, how could that have worked out? Well? That was easy, because all Kelly felt she had to do was bring her killer to her husband. Kelly picked up Greg and brought him to her marital home with Doug.

51:31 After he left the house to go help his buddy fix the car, she went and picked him up and brought him home. They went inside together and Doug. She gave Doug a night stick and a knife, and Doug found a place to hide and he lay in wait in that house until Doug got back home. So Kelly was out dancing and partying and all the while knew that someone was going to kill her husband, and she he never said a thing. She was just out there dancing and tearing up the floor. When her poor husband arrived back home around ten thirty that night after helping a friend, he unlocked the door and he walked inside of the house where Greg was hiding there in the darkness.

52:16 Dug none the wiser, and as he stepped inside of the house without any notice, Doug instantly felt a man grab him around the neck and put a knife to his throat, and the man tipped the blade up into his neck, underneath his chin, and he was very pushy putting that knife up underneath the neck. The man who was holding this knife was not kidding, and he made the commands very clear, get in your car and don't do anything stupid. Greg then kidnapped Doug at knife point and forced him into his own car and had him drive himself into that wooded area at this predesignated spot that he was going to go to.

53:00 Now. According to Greg, not a word was spoken during that horrifying ride. I'm gonna guess that Doug remained calm, no doubt, in hopes that he would be able to at least think of a way to maybe get away at some point eyes on the road. He's got a cold blade shoved up underneath his neck the entire time. This is clearly not a joke, and he was trying to remain calm so that he didn't spook the guy with the knife. But based on what I've read, I believe that the two men knew one another more than was being brought up, because there is some speculation that Doug may have known that his wife was messing around on him. Again, because another witness from Doug's work said that one time he heard Doug having a conversation on his phone and they were yelling back and forth, and he was mad, and he hung up and someone said, who is that? He goes, Oh, I guess my wife's boyfriend. That makes me think that he might have known something, And so I think once he was taken hostage here Doug knew what was up.

54:05 So once they drive, or they Doug drives himself to his final destination, he's forced to pull over. He puts the car in park, and he gets out. The entire time the knife was kept to his throat. Doug complied, he got out of the car, and then Greg still kept the knife to his throat and walked him up the hill off the side of the road. And then when they got to the spot he wanted, he told him to stop right here. Doug stopped. He said, get down on your knees. Doug did as told, He got down on his knees. And when he got down on his knees, that's whenever Greg pulled out that night stick and started bashing him over the head, over and over again until he collapsed, falling forward from the blows to his head. Once Doug slammed down face first into the ground, Greg then jumped on top of him and he pulled out the knife that he's had this whole time, and he started just raining down blows into Doug's face and into his neck until Doug eventually just stopped moving, happy and convinced that he was dead. At this point, he got up and that's whenever he took the wedding ring, and he took the watch just as he was instructed by Kelly to steal before leaving him in the woods.

55:19 And Greg then ran back and got in Doug's car, making his way to a nearby payphone, where he then paged Kelly that it was time to pick him up. He text, I believe he paged the code one two three, which means it's done. Well. It was at that point Kelly's out dancing with the friends right, having a good time parting it up. When she gets that page, she knew it was over, her husband was dead, and she feigned a reason to leave the party that night. I don't know, guys, I just feel like I should go home. I got a bad feeling. I'm just going to go home for the night. And so she tells all her girlfriends goodbye and she leaves, but she's not headed home. She goes to pick up Greg. Well. When Kelly got there, it wasn't enough that Greg told her that Doug was dead. She said no, she demanded, I want to see his body. I want you to take him to me. So they go back over to the area where he was murdered. They stop both cars because they're both in different in their own cars. Greg is in Dougs and she's in hers. When they get out, Greg leads her over to where Doug's bloodied and battered and stabbed body is laying face down, mutilated on the ground, and Kelly walks over and leans over and kind of takes it in for a moment, checks it out, and then she said, okay, cool, let's go. That is what she said about the man who is not only the father of her biological child, but the only father that

56:50 any of her children ever knew. Okay, let's go. Not an ounce of remorse, not a tear, no shock even We just wanted to make sure that it was done. And then they walked away from him, leaving him in the woods. When they got back to the cars, Greg drove Doug's car, Kelly again drove her own, and that's when they went to that second location of Luke Edwards Road, which is where the car was found. They park, Kelly gets out of her car. She brought a coke bottle that she had filled with gas, goes over there, dowses the car, the inside of the car with the gasoline and then it was torched. That's whenever they both go back and get in Kelly's car and they went back to Greg's house. When they get there, Kelly's in control.

57:39 She undresses him. She takes his clothes, his tools, his knife, everything that was used for all of this, and she puts it into a garbage bag. And then they just kind of wipe their hands. It's a done deal. High five. Now we just have to go play the part. Well, Greg didn't even get rid of the garbage bag for a couple of days. He was like whatever, He just left it at the house before where he went and dumped it into a dumpster at a convenience store days later. Well, once this confession has been received and they confirmed everything that was said, Greg was placed under arrest and he was charged with felony murder at that same time, and arrest warrant for Kelly was issued. When she's arrested, the jig is up. She knows that it is. But after she was mirandized, she agreed to talk to the police.

58:27 But the story would take a turn here because she would start revealing even more. Kelly would then tell the police not and that is not true. Greg did this alone. I had nothing to do with this, She said. I told you that Greg and I were talking, but that was because the threats that he had been making to me forced me to have to talk to him. And he told me, if I don't continue to have these conversations and we're not talking on the phone and we're not doing all these things, then you know he's gonna he's going to kill her and he's going to kill the kids. But while they're breaking all of this down, and I'm not going to go into all the minutia of it, but she basically gets caught in multiple lives and things that she's saying just don't add up. So while this is going on and it's kind of getting muddy on what exactly went which way and who did what, Greg then agrees, you know what, give me a deal and I'll testify against her. This lover has turned. So they say, fine, we'll do that. So Greg agrees to a deal of life with parole after twenty years. And he agreed also in that agreement to not seek it as part of the deal, which means he would confirm that would confirm that he got at least twenty years before he would try to go get parole. So police felt like, all right, good, if we can get her too, we're willing to go with that. He took the deal.

59:55 Kelly was also offered kind of a deal to confess and do all of these things, but she decided she wasn't gonna take it. She wasn't gonna do that. And the thought process here was that because no one, no jury, is gonna convict a mother of this who didn't even actually do the murder herself. So she was willing to roll the dice and she was like, I'm just gonna go to trial because I don't think that I'll be convicted. I didn't stab him, I didn't do this, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna take my chances. So November the second, nineteen ninety eight, that's whenever the trial starts. She has pled not guilty, and Greg took the stand, and from every report from that, he was very believable in all of his testimony. The defense would attack this and they would try to pain him out to be a liar with no credibility. But that's whenever Kelly kind of got slapped a little bit because her close friend Pam also took the stand. Now why would this matter, Well, Kelly had been calling Pam since she went to jail, right she was reaching out to her friends and talking to people, and she had called Kelly from jail and in one phone call, she admitted to Pam that she did it, and Pam's mind was blown. She could not believe that she admitted to it. And an inmate that did time with Kelly testified to that fact that after the confession and after Kelly had told her friend Pam that that

1:01:27 she had done it, then Kelly started to rethink it and was like, oh shit, I shouldn't have done that. I probably shouldn't have said that. So while she's behind bars, after she's con confessed to her friend Kelly, she then starts trying to solicit somebody from behind bars to go beat the ever living shit out of Pam, beat her, beat her within an inch of her life. I e. Witness intimidation so that she wouldn't tell anybody about the confession that she had had told her, And to sweeten the pot, she also told whoever would go beat the crap out of Pam that she would give them ten thousand dollars if they would take the fall for her. Well, as you can imagine, all of this gets shown in court.

1:02:12 Kelly's done, she's cooked, she smoked, and she has found guilty of felony murder. But guess what the jury decides to sentence her to the death penalty. They give her death and a juror that was on the jury was quoted after the trials over as saying, quote, that is the meanest woman alive. Quote. So, Kelly was now the only woman on death row in the state of Georgia. And while she was there, the argument became that she would change over time and that she would try to help other inmates. She would have years of being a model inmate, and she was even able to establish a relationship with her children. Again, while she was spending these years behind bars, they would start to visit her and they would really want start petitioning to please have her her sentence commuted because they felt that she had changed. Dakota, her youngest son, he agreed that over time she had changed too, and that she was starting. You know, she was helping people, he said, she even was being a mom to us, Like you could tell that there was a real change. And Dakota said in the last meeting that he had with her that he begged her to please tell the truth. If you have changed, please tell the truth. And in that meeting, Kelly made a full confession to her children that she was guilty as charged.

1:03:42 She did not try to deny it. She had been there a long time and she wanted to come clean and admit it and all of that. So she did call her kids before her execution date came, and she wanted to tell the kids that she loved them now. Kelly would sit on death row until March second of twenty fifteen, whenever she was brought over to the death house to be executed. That was the date that this was all supposed to go down. But there was a hiccup when the day came because right before she was brought in to be put to death, a doctor and a pharmacist who were inspecting the lethal injection drugs that they were supposed to use, they took issue with it.

1:04:32 They were looking at the drug and they go, I don't know, these look cloudy, they don't look they don't look right. Well. Because of the way that they looked, there was an issue and there was concerns about the effectiveness of the drugs and the safety and all of that, and because of that, they debated her fate. The State of Georgia debated her fate roughly thirteen more hours before choosing to not proceed with the execution. So Kelly gets told she's being put to death, tells everybody goodbye, and then gets taken back and says, never mind, we're not going to execute you. Well, she took somewhat of offense to this because she felt like these thirteen hours of unknowns violated her Eighth Amendment right and qualified as cruel and unusual punishment. She said that it put her under undue stress and she felt immense fear and anxiety. Now to that, I do want to say, I wonder if that's exactly what Doug felt with a knife pressed to his throat and being walked through the woods, placed on his knees and then you know, killed. You know, I think that may have possibly brought about some undue stress.

1:05:41 But what he didn't get to do also is Doug didn't get to write a thirty page complaint to submit to his killers and have them contemplated, did he. He didn't get any of that. She complained of the stress of waiting thirteen hours, but she didn't have shit to say whenever Doug layout there being mutilated by animals for twelve days while she hunk her down with her lover who had just beaten his brains in and stabbed him to death. She didn't take any offense to that twelve days, but she was upset about those thirteen hours unbelievable. So while she didn't die the day that she was originally scheduled, there were more days in the calendar to choose from, so six months would pass. She would live an additional six months, and a lot of people showed up on her behalf to show support and to try to stop the execution from going forward. These people were expressing how much Kelly had changed and that her life was worth saving.

1:06:37 And this was pretty wild to me, but even the Pope. The Pope spoke out against her being put to death while visiting the US during this time, this incredible push to not execute her was being put on full display. And I'm gonna go a little bit personal here, and if you don't want to hear eating fast forward, that's fine. But I've always been raised to believe that respect should be given to people in power positions religious figures included you give respect to these people, they have earned it. Now, I'll tell you I'm not Catholic, but I certainly respect and appreciate the role of the Pope as a religious leader.

1:07:19 And it really got me thinking while I was writing this. You know, I was digging really deep while I was thinking this through. And that said, it feels intrinsically wrong to say that you disagree with the Pope on something, even if I'm not Catholic, to say I don't agree with the Pope, it just it just feels wrong. You know, who am I to say such a thing that I don't agree with the Pope. The core qualities of the Pope exude, you know, they're supposed to exude things that I pray to myself that one day I could be as christ Like as possible, to have complete humility and unending mercy. But I got to tell you, I'm not there yet. I'm just not there. I'm thinking about what Doug and you know what he went through. The terror of the time as he was taken by knife point in his home, forced to drive in the dark, kneeling down, knowing you're about to be killed, I can't get past that and his family finding out. They found out about what happened to him later on, but then the grief that they have to live with, that grief forever. They don't get mercy, they don't get relief, they don't get anything.

1:08:28 They get nothing. You lose. I feel like, you know, Willie walk on the chocolate factory. You get nothing, you lose. That's it. This is how it ends. And so there must be consequences for what she did and what Greg did. If you want to get that deep and talk about the pope, you know in Genesis, whoever sheds human blood by humans, shall their blood be shed? I know that that's the Old Testament, but I will say this. I don't want to go any further into it. But I am so thankful for people who oppose me on this. My listeners included. I have people who are against the death penalty, and I say this in complete earnest. I am so thankful for people who are against the death penalty, even though I am for it, because having someone disagree with me doesn't scare me, and deep down inside I can truly appreciate what those people on the other side of the aisle are fighting for whenever they fight in this regard, if we all agreed that death should be the answer, it would almost just be too dark of a place. I know that's odd and contradictory, but it's the opposition that keeps us in check. It's the opposition that keeps me in check, keeps me pondering and thinking if this is the way that we should punish in the country, Is this the way or should we consider something else? I do continue to think about it, but I will tell you I also continue to look from the lens or through the lens of the loss of a victim, while people on the other side of the

1:09:59 aisle are looking through the lens of the offender's potential to change. And either way you look at it, I think there's beauty on both sides of it. But I stand for the fact that some people I don't think deserve to walk this planet. So let's fast forward six months to September the thirtieth of twenty fifteen, and her second execution date was set to proceed. Now, I want to point out Doug died alone, with no time for goodbyes. He didn't get to kiss his children, he didn't get to hug them. He didn't get to tell his parents goodbye, farewell to his friends, nothing. He got nothing, but Kelly got to address the room and give her final words.

1:10:41 Her kids were not there because they were actively in that moment doing some last minute petitioning to try to stop her execution. But whenever Kelly was led into the room, her final words were recorded, and I love you, set. Let my kids go. Everyone else, sing an amazing grace and tell the Gissan Dana family, I am so sorry that amazing man lost his life because of me. And if I could take it back, if this were change it, I would have done it a long time ago. But this fu and I just hope they find peace, and I hope they find some happiness.

1:11:30 God bless you hearing that. I will say that executions aren't easy, but I will also add I do respect the fact that she did finally take ownership and apologize to the Guts and Danner family, but I apologies are too late. At this point, the Guts and Danner family had understandably already released a statement saying as the murderer, she's been given more rights and opportunity over the last eighteen years than she ever afforded to Doug, who again is the real victim here. She had no mercy, gave him no rights, no choices, nor the opportunity to live his life. Kelly Gissendaner was then strapped to the table and the drugs began pumping through her veins. She was pronounced dead by lethal injection at twelve twenty one am, and that made Kelly the last woman to be executed in the US to date. Well, okay, technically, some people might argue with me that that's not accurate because there was an offender by the name of Amber McLaughlin who was executed in twenty twenty three. But Amber was born a little boy named Scott. So I'll just let you decide if you want to claim that one or not.

1:12:38 I don't care you, do you, But I'm just giving you all the info. But I will tell you this, if you've been a listener for a long time, there's another female that is already set to be executed in less than a month from this recording, And I bet you know her name if you're up to date on episodes, does Amber Pike ring bells? Well, Miss ma'am is now tentatively scheduled to meet her maker in September of twenty twenty six. She will be the next female and will be the last one after it happens to be executed in the United States, so I will keep you updated on that. It's big. Women being executed isn't common. But after carving a pentagram and her poor victim's body, let's just see how well she takes her own upcoming demise.

1:13:27 And I know this is probably tacky, but it'd be fun to take bets on how she behaves, because my money is on her acting like a totally indignant and mouthy shrew once she's strapped down. But we shall see. Maybe we'll do a Facebook Facebook fake bet or something like that and we'll see what we think is going to happen there. But as for anyone who would commit an atrocity, any atrocity upon another to the level that both Kelly and Amber have, the constitution is clear and the death penalty is legal so long as it is proportional. And there is no doubt that Kelly Gisander was responsible for her husband's death, because without her, Doug would still be alive today. She didn't complete the act herself, but it was her plan that was put to action. It's like a builder using an architect's house plans but then claiming the architect had nothing to do with the project.

1:14:25 That can't be so. Without the plan, there is no house, and certainly not one to the exact specs that would benefit someone the way that Doug's murder benefited both of his killers. Kelly may have outsourced the murder, but not the consequences, because those, my dear, aren't something that you can subcontract. Greg may have been the one to swing the knife, but in this story, there is no doubt that Kelly remains the ultimate backstabber.