Aug. 6, 2026

Crime Wire Weekly 8/7/26 | More Arrests in Nolan Wells Case, New LA Crime Laws, Alexee Trevizo Shocking Win

Crime Wire Weekly 8/7/26 | More Arrests in Nolan Wells Case, New LA Crime Laws, Alexee Trevizo Shocking Win
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Season 11

Another packed episode with some wild crime related stories coming your way today! KJ and Jim talk Louisiana’s newest crime laws just took effect August 1st, and the changes are already reshaping how cases are handled across the state. Meanwhile in Tangipahoa Parish, Border Patrol somehow loses two handcuffed men, and a Livingston Parish Sheriff’s Office deputy was involved in an unrelated shooting just miles away.

A bizarre Alabama double killing appears connected to a decade of strange Facebook posts. Updates keep coming on the In-N-Out Burger mass shooting. A man is behind bars for allegedly sparking wildfires in Spokane. Defense attorneys in the Madison Brooks trial are fighting to keep the color pink out of the courtroom. And in the “Lustful Lawbreakers” file, bathroom sex leads to yet another arrest. Also this week: the Lindsey Clancy trial is underway, and a third person has been arrested in the Nolan Wells case for making threats to kill. In Overtime The True Crime Time Machine takes us back to the Hatfield-McCoy feud. A man walks free after a Kentucky child murder case collapses. Alexee Trevizo scores a major win at the Supreme Court. And a YMCA camp counselor is arrested for the third time on SA charges.

#truecrime #breakingnews #crime #news #podcast #InNOutBurger #nolanwells #SpokaneWildfires #louisiana

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All right, folks, welcome back to Crime Whire Weekly. Got

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a slew of topics coming your way today. We're going

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to cover some of the new crime laws that went

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into effect on August. First, that if you're a Louisiana resident,

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you need to know about the border patrol. Also in

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Louisiana lost track of two handcuffed men in tan Shapeo Parish.

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One of those guys still at large. An LPSO sheriff's

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deputy was forced to use lethal force after an interstate

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pursuit crossing two Louisiana parishes. We're going to talk about that.

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In Alabama, a bizarre killing of two after decades long

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Facebook post would have made you think these people were friends.

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Very bizarre. We have an up to the minute information

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on the tragic in and out Burger Mass shooting that

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occurred just a few days ago. A man has been

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arrested for arson in the massive Spokane, Washington fires. Yeah,

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have you been seeing all the It's terrific.

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I know bits and pieces, but when I saw how

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many people and then there's mandatory evacuations, It's like, Okay,

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this is getting this is getting out of control.

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Yeah, it's horrible. The defense in the Madison Brooks trial.

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They were attempting to ban pink in the courtroom. Now,

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the Madison Brooks trial is a Louisiana case. We'll talk

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about it in a little while, but we're going to

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tell you why they were attempting to ban it and

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what the result of that was. We've got another lustful

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lawbreaker segment. I'm not even going to tell you what

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it's about. You'll have to wait around and listen. We're

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also going to talk about the Lindsey Clancy trial.

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Yeah, I've been following that one. Yeah, and you know,

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there's a lot of components to that one. That's it

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depends on the mindset, your end, I think, because people

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are very polarized by that one.

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What is she in trouble for?

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She's the one who strangled all three of her children

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to death with the exercise.

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Bands and then no, well, I mean until the case

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is the trial is well.

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I'm not saying we know she did the questions more

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about why she did it actually, So yeah, it's pretty

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it's pretty seriously a lot of people are polarized by

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this one.

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We'll talk more about it though.

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All right, We're going to talk about a third arrest

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that has been made in the Nolan Wells case over

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threats to kill witnesses. In over time, we're going to

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bring you another segment of the True Crime Time Machine.

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A man in Kentucky has been released after killing a

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child and serving less than ten years in prison.

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And we actually covered that a long time ago on

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this show that that could happen, and now we've we're

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seeing it come to fruition.

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Alexei I always struggle with her last name, Treviso. I

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don't know why I struggle with that, but she has

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won big in the Supreme Court in Colorado.

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Indeed she has.

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We're going to talk about her. The YMCA, a camp counselor,

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has been arrested for the third time for child sexual assault.

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Things that make you go hmm. To be once accused

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of something makes you kind of go ooh, but three times, Yeah,

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it's a pattern.

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You got to hear this, and so we're going to

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jump right into it. But as you can see, man

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as far as topics, we're covering it all today. All right,

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let's start off in Louisiana and Kelly. The way we're

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going to do this one is I'm gonna mentioned the

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law that has taken place on August first, So we're

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dropping this a few days after August first, but I'm

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going to mention the law, mention what it means, and

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then we'll just comment back and forth as we go along.

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So the first law that has changed, I don't know

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if it's changed or just been really it's just been introduced.

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And this has everything to do with technology is the

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new deep fake laws that have been passed. Louisiana passed

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several new laws to add criminal penalties for using AI

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to produce child pornography and to protect K through twelve

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students from deep fake material. Act eight ninety two expands

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the definition of child sexual abuse material into state law

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to include images created with AI, and Act to eleven

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prohibits the use of a child's image to train AI

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to produce child pornography. Ninety six also further prohibits the

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use of deep fake material against students enrolled in K

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through twelve schools, which I believe we covered a case

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where that actually happened. So what do you think about

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that one?

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I think it's good. I think we should be doing

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this right now, not a minute too late. And I

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think of this Obviously this is horrific that people would

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do that, But I think of it in kind of

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the same realm as like nil that deals with our athletes.

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How I expect that.

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Well, let me explain. You know, name, image or likeness.

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You know, they're mad because they want to make sure

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that no one uses their name, image or likeness and

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takes you know, they should get paid. You know, I'm

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trying to say, for whenever that stuff is using, they

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don't want people using it without them getting paid. Right,

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you can't just in IL what did I say?

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You said it in I l okay, But.

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In this case, I think of it along those same lines,

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like you own like you are, the ownership of your

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own face and of your own body. In these kids

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don't have, you know, they should be able to not

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have someone make something that looks like them, even if

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it's fake and it be distributed and people go, oh, well,

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you know it's not real, so it doesn't really matter.

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It does matter because you're implying you're doing it to

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make it look like these children and so oh and

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it's also pornography, right, they're naked. No, I know, but

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I'm saying, if I agree with it, anybody, because there

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is an argument that people say, well, if it's not real,

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couldn't it be considered as like art or something. No,

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because it's meant to emulate something real that is illegal,

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and that's the whole thing here, And so I agree

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with that. I think it's a great law, and I

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think that it's going to get more and more finite

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as criminals are going to do what they do and

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we're going to find we're going to find out that

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it'll have to be amended probably a couple of times

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too well.

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And technology has changed, you know, you got to change

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with technology. That's what this law is all about. A

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few years ago, you couldn't just deepthake somebody. I'm telling

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you can take a picture now, and not only a picture,

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a video of someone and manipulated to look absolutely real.

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You can't tell the difference. And a lot of what

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spurred this was a case where a high school student

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actually got in a fight with another student and was

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kicked out of school because this other student made a

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deep fake image of her naked and it had spread

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all over snapchat. That's what spurred a lot of the

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law that is coming out now, where when these students

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are enrolled in school. If you're caught doing that, you're

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going to be in a lot of trouble. Whether you're

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a minor or an adult doesn't matter. But then, of

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course you also have people faking child pornography and then selling.

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It, and I think that anybody who's willing to purchase

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it should have a talking to.

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Oh well, that's against the law as well. Possessing child

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pornography is already against it, right.

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And so this just says though in that law, didn't

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it just say it's illegal.

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It's considered that deep fakes are looked at just like

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real child boriography, whether they are.

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And I also would challenge our schools or whomever that

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students need to be made aware of this law change.

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I think it's important and that they understand the seriousness

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of it, because failure or lack of knowledge of the

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law is not an excuse, right, you know.

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I agree with that all right. Next one is protecting

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the way they labeled it is restaurant workers, but it's

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any retail establishment. It doesn't have to be a restaurant.

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It can be your local antique shop. Louisiana will get

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tougher on people who attack front counterstaff, staff and Restaurant

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Workers Act eight ninety two enhances criminal penalties for assault

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and battery when the victims are employees of food and

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retail establishments. The law comes after a Bat and Reach

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couple was accused in March of shooting a rest owner

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rather over a mistake in their food order.

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I agree with that too, because with cell phones and

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stuff today, you know people are filming and you're seeing

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it more and more that people are throwing drinks at

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them and swinging on them behind the county and get

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on TikTok long enough and you'll see it.

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Yeah.

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So again I agree because that's nonsense that shouldn't even

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be happening.

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Right, and the stiffer penalties hopefully will make a big difference. Look,

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as someone that worked in retail for a long long time,

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you got some idiots out there that will absolutely freaking

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act like total jerks if they don't get the answer

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they're looking for. And in some cases, at like this

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Bat and Rooge couple, they shot someone over a mistake

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on a freaking food order. I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.

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Calls are made because of the knuckleheads, not because of

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the Yeah, the average one.

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Yeah, it's a law because something happened somewhere along the

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line to cause it. Hazing Education Act three and nine

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requires the State Board of Regents to develop a policy

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on hazing prevention and reporting with the colleges and schools.

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It requires students UH to directly receive anti hazing educational

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material and for the Louisiana public and private schools that

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receive state funds to maintain a database of reported haiti

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hazing incidents. This is named after Caleb Wilson, who was

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a Southern University student died last year in a fraternity

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hazing incident, and the Act was a result of legislative

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task force that worked to address hazing and educational institutions

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across the state. And I remember Caleb Wilson was also

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a band member in Southern University's band, which is world renowned.

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You see it in the Rose Bowl and everywhere else.

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They can, they can throw down, they can.

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And they're fun, they're fun to watch. But you know,

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this has been happening more and more, which is just

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you know, you'd think this would be like once in

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a blue moon type thing, but like remember Max Gruber,

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and there's there was another one too that in recent

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years here on our on our campuses that I mean,

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you shouldn't be dying to be a part of something, right,

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And you know you can't say, oh, I didn't know

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that was gonna happen, Well it did. I mean, when

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you bring someone to the point of death, like, that's

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insane to me that it would go that far.

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Yeah, definitely, it's a good law to have, you know,

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in the in the past, especially when I was younger,

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I used to think, well, they made the choice to

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drink four thousand beers. But when you make it a

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requirement and you're dealing with college age students, it's a

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little bit different. Your mind frame is a little bit

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different because you think you're gonna live forever and you

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think you know that it's so important that you belong

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to this fraternity. If they told you jump off a building,

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a lot of people would do it. So as I aged,

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I matured a little bit on that, just a little.

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I do, really, just a little, And I do realize

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that the importance of having these hazing laws won a

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little closer to home. JV's law, which honorsam Spring's resident

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Jody Mann and her mother, was actually in here recently

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doing a podcast. The twenty year old was killed after

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being hit by a car while walking home, and Judy's

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law requires law enforcement to notify other area agencies of vehicles, descriptions,

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and other information on hint and run crashes. It also

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requires a hearing before bond can be set in such

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cases which an arrest is made.

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Gotcha, Yeah, and that poor mom. I mean, she's been

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all over our local news. If you're not from here this,

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you know, you fight so hard, you've lost. She lost

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something very precious to her, her daughter, and she was

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an innocent victim in that. And to be hit on

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the side of the road and then someone just keep

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going is I don't know, man, that's that's pretty callous.

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So what do you think about the law?

231
00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:54.120
I think it's good, But you know, so your jurisdiction

232
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.519
is gonna dictate kind of where your communication goes. And

233
00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.080
so it does make sense when we have got when

234
00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:01.960
you've got bordering a agencies that are next to each other,

235
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.399
that if there was a hit and run that they

236
00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.000
need to be on the lookout for those vehicles. It's smart.

237
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.159
I think it makes sense. I don't know. My question

238
00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.039
would be as far as how that's done because radios

239
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.080
like in dispatch and all it to your police officers,

240
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.080
they don't go along jurisdictional lines, you know, so I

241
00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:21.879
don't I would.

242
00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.639
I would think it would be like an amber alert

243
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.399
type situation, but just for law enforce I would guess

244
00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.840
there goes out on everybody's.

245
00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:29.960
Yeah, like I was gonna say, it had to be

246
00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.120
on their cat, in their in their in their units.

247
00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.360
Maybe it'll pop up and they can be looking for them.

248
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.679
I think it's good. It's smart and it I don't

249
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:39.360
know how it works exactly, but it's.

250
00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.559
New so well. In the In the other side of

251
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.320
that law is actually what really is intriguing to me,

252
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.240
and that is the requirement now of a hearing before

253
00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:50.639
bond can be set. See prior to this law, UH,

254
00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.799
when you had a hitting, uh hit and killed incident

255
00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.759
like this, Uh, there's an automatic bond. There's an automatic

256
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.840
number there and it it doesn't matter the circumstances. If

257
00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.679
it's twenty thousand dollars bond, you don't even have to

258
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.639
see a judge. It's twenty thousand dollars bond to get out.

259
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:12.320
Now they were required to have a hearing before bond

260
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:15.559
is set, which means that the judge who is setting

261
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.480
bond is going to get all the information so as

262
00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:20.000
it should be.

263
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.080
Someone died, that's right. This isn't like you hit a

264
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.519
poll and did property damage. Someone lost their life, you know,

265
00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:28.080
So I concur I think that's a good one too.

266
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:32.120
All right. Child grooming laws, So a new law states

267
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.919
that if the child is under seventeen and the offender

268
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:44.679
is at least four years older, seduction, emotional manipulation, threats, promises, coercion, enticement, isolation,

269
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.559
or extortion with the specific intent to commit a sex

270
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:54.799
offense against the child is guilty of indecent behavior with

271
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.240
the juvenile. And I may have a different opinion on

272
00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:58.120
this than you.

273
00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.240
I'd like to hear yours say that this is probably

274
00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:06.080
my favorite of all of them, because you'll see it

275
00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.639
time and time and time and time again, that grooming

276
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.679
is an extremely predictable pattern. That's why predators do what

277
00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.559
they do. It's very obvious that they will befriend the child,

278
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.679
integrate themselves, and then test the waters before the abuse occurs.

279
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:27.399
It happens like clockwork that they isolate and do these

280
00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.399
things to these children. So what happens is someone may

281
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.480
see the grooming behavior, but if it is not illegal.

282
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:37.759
Now there's checkpoints to this. It's not just someone points

283
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:43.559
and says, I mean, there's checkpoints to this. But if

284
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.840
you've been around people long enough, and you've been around

285
00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.519
sex offenders in the capacity of law enforcement or whatever,

286
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.600
you know what they're doing, but you can't do anything

287
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.840
about it because it's not illegal. It's not illegal to

288
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:57.559
give gifts to your neighbor's kid. It's not illegal to say,

289
00:15:57.559 --> 00:15:58.360
come sit on my lie.

290
00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.240
Just gifts to your neighbors kid doesn't mean you're trying

291
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:02.000
to groom them.

292
00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:05.919
Right, But that's why I'm saying it's totality of circumstance.

293
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.519
There's tick marks that are going to have to be

294
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.279
met here, text messages, there's other things that they're that

295
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.399
they're going to be looking at. But what happens here

296
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.440
is if you cannot go, if you can't address the

297
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.000
fact that a child is being groomed, because it's not

298
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.679
illegal to groom, but we we recognize that that is

299
00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:27.159
absolutely going to result in a victim. Why wait until

300
00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.039
we get a victim when we could have saved the kid.

301
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:35.960
That's just reactive, that's not proactive. And so I think

302
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.000
I agree with it. I like it. I would like

303
00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:42.120
to know exactly what the what the specifications are for that,

304
00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.519
because the law doesn't like you know your market directly,

305
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.480
it does say like seduction and all that kind of stuff.

306
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.399
But you can be guaranted, you can guarantee that if

307
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:54.759
that is picked up on, I think it's a good thing.

308
00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.519
Okay, So what I'm going to say on this is

309
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.559
I love the spirit of the law. I think a

310
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.079
lot of these things, unfortunately, are going to be hard

311
00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.519
to prove in court. There are some cases where they're

312
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.359
absolutely probable. Like AJ said, if there's a bunch of

313
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:17.000
text messages out there, you know, things that that are

314
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:23.039
not based off of perception, yeah, absolutely those would be provable.

315
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.359
I think that it's going to be hard to prove.

316
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.079
For example, if someone gave someone a gift and there's

317
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.079
no other trail there and a parent things, but a

318
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.680
parent might think that yeah.

319
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:38.599
But it doesn't meet the muster of of the law. Okay,

320
00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:40.160
I mean it doesn't.

321
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.720
I agree, That's exactly what I'm saying. In some situations,

322
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:46.160
this is going to be very hard to prove. But

323
00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.279
I like the spirit of the law and we'll see

324
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:51.559
how how it works out. I'm certainly offer anything that

325
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.880
protects children. Well, oh, I'm sorry, Well, I'm just trying

326
00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:56.920
to move on to the next lene.

327
00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:58.559
I would want to add one line though, and tell

328
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.279
you any minutes in that started with the Catholic church

329
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.920
and a victim in the Catholic church is where that

330
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.119
started from. And they were talking to one of the

331
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.319
legislators and was like, you know, if I could have told,

332
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.039
you know, the things that were happening, and people knew

333
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:15.839
I had said the things that were happening, but it

334
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.400
was kind of like it was just kind of like

335
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.079
a gray area. And he said the words, well, what

336
00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.400
if why isn't grooming illegal? And that is what got

337
00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:27.480
that lawmaker thinking, wait a minute, wait a second. Yeah,

338
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.079
this was like very obvious what was happening to this kid?

339
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.440
And so that's where it came from. So I'm with you.

340
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:33.519
I like the spirit of the law.

341
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.279
And of course not all Catholics groom people. We want

342
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.119
to make we want to make that quietly. All right,

343
00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:42.880
let's go to the next one. Balloon releases. This is

344
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:46.200
a popular ritual for morning and celebrating the life of

345
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.359
someone that had died obviously, and now a new law

346
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.440
is considering that intentional lettering. The law also applies to

347
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.400
anyone who organizes a blame release at which twelve or

348
00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.720
more balloons are release. So if you release eleven apparently

349
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:07.240
okay for this, I look, I agree with it one

350
00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:13.400
hundred percent because it's it is especially a bad thing

351
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.839
for animals and the wildlife out there. You wouldn't believe

352
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.680
the amount of birds that choke on balloons.

353
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.319
Not only that, but very expensive livestocks, very expensive live

354
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.640
stock is lost to this, and I think that's probably

355
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.079
where this is really being pushed from, because you know,

356
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:30.799
you lose a couple hundred dollars cow behind a balloon

357
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.880
that says rest in peace, you know, well goli and

358
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.160
then the farmer is the one that's taken the hit

359
00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.119
for that. And so I agree, and I do like

360
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.599
though that they do give a limit, because that would

361
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.799
mean that if you accidentally let go of a balloon

362
00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:46.160
or if you you know, in groups, or you know,

363
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.319
if some were lost in the in the mayhem, then

364
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:49.200
you could be charged.

365
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.640
And right, it has to be an intentional relie. You know,

366
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.119
if your daughter's holding a balloon with Mickey Mouse.

367
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:56.920
And they start slamming kids.

368
00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.400
Yeah, well it wouldn't be in Louisiana if it was

369
00:19:59.440 --> 00:19:59.960
in Disney.

370
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:00.599
Well, that's true.

371
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.359
You know, if she lets go of a balloon or he,

372
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.599
they're not gonna get arrested for that or anything or

373
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:10.079
get a fine for that. And the twelve or more

374
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.480
is only when as it relates to someone organizing the

375
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:18.960
balloon release. So you can't release one intentionally in Louisiana. Now,

376
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:20.920
are you're gonna get at least fine? I mean, you're

377
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.200
not gonna get brought to Angola, But we'll see how

378
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:24.759
that goes.

379
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:26.559
Serial balloon let goer.

380
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.160
Yeah, and I'll cover one more here because we're kind

381
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.480
of laboring it now. But notification when an inmate is

382
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:38.640
wrongly released. So Act one sixteen requires the public to

383
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:43.000
be notified when prisoners are wrongfully released from a parish

384
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:48.000
prison facility, jail, or state correctional facility. Now, this law

385
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:53.240
comes after backlash to former Orleans Paars Sheriff Susan Hudson

386
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.400
for last year's ten inmate jailbreak and other incidents of

387
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.359
improper inmate release. And that happens more, y'all might think, well.

388
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.000
It makes sense though, Like if an inmate escapes Angola,

389
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:05.920
which I know that's different, but like they're going to

390
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:09.200
notify the immediate area because there's houses and people that

391
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.640
live there. And I think that that's common sense that

392
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.880
you would alert people that someone is out that should

393
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:15.480
not be out.

394
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.119
Well, I think this law actually relates more to victims,

395
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.960
so not all the time when someone's wrongfully released or

396
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.279
victims net.

397
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.000
A function should be autobiz that.

398
00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.640
Yeah, And there were a few victims of these ten

399
00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.799
guys that were released from the Orlean Sheriff's office and

400
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.960
they found out via the news. They didn't find out

401
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.559
via the Sheriff's department or whoever would alert people to that.

402
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.680
And and there these were guys that were wanted for

403
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.720
murder an attempt at murder that were waiting trial. And

404
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:50.799
so you would think if they tried to kill somebody,

405
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.839
they call that person, Well, now they have to.

406
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.200
Yeah. I hate that we're being super Louisiana centric, it

407
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.319
seems like, but this one's kind of important because we're

408
00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.319
going to stay right here in Ponchatula, Louisiana would right

409
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.319
down the road from US. But one of two barefoot,

410
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.680
handcuffed men who ran from US border Patrol agents Monday,

411
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:10.240
has been captured after allegedly trying to enter an occupied

412
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:14.599
home near Ponchatoula. While authorities continued searching for the second suspect,

413
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.599
the Tangipaho A pair of Sheriff's office identified the captured

414
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.440
man as twenty six year old Edwin Gonzalez Avalez of Honduras.

415
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.759
Sheriff Sticker said canine teams tracked Avalez sent for about

416
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:29.279
thirty minutes before pushing him out of the woods near

417
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.279
Betico Creek Trailer Park, and he was taken back into

418
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.359
custody around three pm. The sheriff's office is still looking

419
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.759
for thirty one year old Elvin Martinez, who was last

420
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.359
seen on a trail camera in the Robert area, which

421
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.960
is right here again, just a few exits down the road.

422
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.440
The Tangobaha Sheriff's office said that the canine teams tracked

423
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.559
Martinez along Highway one ninety and that's whenever the scent

424
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.160
was lost. The agency's search was called off after midnight

425
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.400
and handed off to Border Patrol personnel. The incident began

426
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.960
around six forty five am when Border Patrol agents stopped

427
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.920
vehicle along eastbound I twelve near the Tangipahoa and Saint

428
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.559
Taminy Parish line. Three Hispanic men in the vehicle were detained,

429
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.960
but the driver and the front seat passenger ran from agents.

430
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.599
According to the Sheriff's office, one ran north of the

431
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.680
interstate while the other headed south. Both were barefoot and

432
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:21.160
handcuffed in the front when they took off. Deputies, federal

433
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.960
agents and the Louisiana State Police spent several hours searching

434
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:27.200
the wooded areas and the nearby creeks. Now During the search,

435
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.680
a nine to one one call reported seeing a handcuffed

436
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.200
man trying to enter a mobile home on Dusty Lane

437
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.240
in the Betico area. Two children were inside with their

438
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.119
father and another man. According to the children's mother, and

439
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.319
this is a quote, my ex husband and the kids

440
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:42.920
were still sleeping, but the suspect knocked on the door,

441
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:45.599
thinking it was somebody that they probably knew. They opened

442
00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.400
the door and noticed that there were handcuffs and tried

443
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.720
to shut the door. He tried to push back into

444
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:52.680
the house and I'm not too sure what happened from there,

445
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.440
but he took off running. That is scary, That is

446
00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:58.119
really scary. Sheriff Stickers said. The encounter left the family

447
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.599
and the sun surrounding community. Shake and our homes are

448
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.519
our fortresses and our place of security. To have a stranger,

449
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.559
especially one in handcuffs, walk into their property and much

450
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.640
less take their residence or try to enter their residence,

451
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.200
it's unsettling, to say the least. According to Sticker, I'm

452
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.200
glad we were able to capture this individual in a

453
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.160
timely manner and hopefully put the community's fear at rest.

454
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:21.480
Anyone who sees Martinez should not approach him and should

455
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.039
call nine one one immediately tpso said US Border Patrol

456
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.799
will provide additional information about the traffic stop and the

457
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.960
circumstances surrounding the escape.

458
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.319
Yeah, and that dude is the second guy is still

459
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.200
on the least as of this recording. Anyway, you know

460
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.640
the problem with this is not that Okay, Border Patrol

461
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.799
arrested two guys who were working a construction site and

462
00:24:43.839 --> 00:24:48.400
they were illegal aliens and they went and pulled you know,

463
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.680
pulled over, pulled them over. However, they got them handcuffed

464
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.839
them and they escaped. When you break into a house,

465
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.440
or attempt to break into a house that has occupants,

466
00:24:58.440 --> 00:24:59.920
first of all, if that would have been my house.

467
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.240
That dude would have sprung a leak in a heartbeat,

468
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.079
multiple leaks, and so that's where it becomes really scary,

469
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.319
really dangerous. So these weren't just some innocent guys who

470
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:15.200
were handcuffed and trying to get away from you know,

471
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:19.920
big brother here. They when you involve innocent citizens and

472
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:22.960
you do stuff like that, you become very dangerous. And

473
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.400
they're lucky whoever's house they broke into wasn't packing, yeah,

474
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.839
because they would have been or at least one of

475
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.079
them would have been absolutely dead. Hopefully they'll catch the

476
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:35.880
other one. Mind boggling to me that someone can escape

477
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.960
with handcuffs like that and still be on the run.

478
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:39.119
I was actually going to.

479
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.519
Sure he doesn't have them on anymore.

480
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.480
I was actually going to address that those deputies had

481
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:46.720
just or officers had just detained them, and that's why

482
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.880
they were handcuffed in the front, and that was out

483
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:50.920
of a courtesy. If you're handcuffed in the back, you

484
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.319
don't have the balance and it makes things much more difficult.

485
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.240
I bet you from now on that courtesy will.

486
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:57.720
Not get policies about to change.

487
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.480
Yep, got a handcuff in the back, all right.

488
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.559
Let's but let's stay in Look, Tangi Parish had a

489
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.440
bad day because this happened the same day, And we're

490
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.559
going to start off in Livingston Parish and make our

491
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:13.480
way to Tangibahoe Parish and a Livingston Parish Sheriff's office

492
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:18.079
deputy shot and killed a fleeing suspect. This occurred this

493
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:23.440
past Monday morning. This prompted a partial closure rather of

494
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:28.559
I fifty five and an investigation by the Louisiana State Police.

495
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.640
According to the Louisiana State Police, at an LPSO deputy

496
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.160
attempted to stop a car in relation to a criminal investigation.

497
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.039
Quote unquote, if you're like my wife, you're saying, well,

498
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:42.960
what are they stopping for? I don't know. I have

499
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.640
no idea. He thinks I got all this inside info.

500
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:46.640
They don't tell me nothing.

501
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.480
And they were I believe they were chasing him.

502
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:51.480
They were chasing him. She wanted to know why they

503
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:55.559
were attempting to stop him. The driver, fifty year old

504
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.559
John E. Granger, the third of Robert and that's Robert

505
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.359
louis He refused to stop in a pursuit that started

506
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.759
near Aubany, Louisiana, which is in the Livingston Parish ended

507
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.160
on southbound I fifty five north in the I twelve interchange,

508
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.720
with Granger crashing into another car. Granger then ran from

509
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.039
deputies into a wooded area. I don't advise doing that,

510
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.519
an lpso Sheriff Jason Ard said in a video posted

511
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.880
to social media. Well, instead of me quoting him, I'm

512
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.799
gonna let you here quickly. It's just real short. Here's

513
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:30.319
that clip.

514
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.319
I'm just checking in. I'm on I fifty five. I

515
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.799
know you've heard about the officer and Bob shooting. My

516
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:37.160
deputy is okay, everything is good.

517
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:39.720
This is just one of them scenes when I have

518
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:40.319
the process.

519
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.279
This actually took place and started in all Benny with

520
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:46.319
a vehicle pursuit. You can see we have the vehicle

521
00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:50.359
there and basically what we know right now is that

522
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:51.680
your deputy.

523
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.839
Pursued this vehicle. This vehicle left the interstate.

524
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.160
He actually decided to go down that area back there,

525
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:00.279
and doing so.

526
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.599
He wound up crashing into another vehicle. He then ran

527
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:04.119
on foot.

528
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:09.519
Deputy chased him. Deputy had to tase the suspect. Suspect

529
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:12.119
fought through the taser disarm the deputy of his taser.

530
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:13.839
After doing that.

531
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.440
He basically started tasing the deputy as they were having

532
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.680
a physical altercation. Deputy then did what he had to

533
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.680
do to survive in this incident. So right now, deputy

534
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:28.400
is okay, you know our suspect is in the hospital.

535
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:30.000
And the physical condition, and we'll just.

536
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.319
Ask you just to stay tuned and as we get

537
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.720
more information, we'll give you that information. It's very important

538
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.240
for us to work through these crime scenes and make

539
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.279
sure that we do our due diligence, and in this investigation,

540
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:43.039
Louisiana State Police.

541
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:43.359
Are on the scene.

542
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:47.000
They will be doing the investigation for us because we're

543
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:50.400
now in Tangentose, Paris, and it just works better that way.

544
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.400
So thank you for all the prayers, thank you for

545
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:53.559
staying tune, and.

546
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:55.519
Again we'll get back with you as soon as we

547
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:56.400
have more information.

548
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.559
So, as you heard, the deputy deployed taser and the

549
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.160
suspect did what Jason Arbor Sheriff Jason Arbor referred to

550
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.519
as fought through that taser, disarmed it from the deputy,

551
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.000
and began using the taser against the deputy, at which

552
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.960
point the deputy then shot Granger. The deputy did sustain

553
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:20.519
minor injuries. Granger was taken to the hospital where he

554
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:25.160
later died, and the driver, incidentally the granger hit, was uninjured.

555
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.839
Good. I'm glad that that person was okay. And I'll

556
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:30.200
say this, there's been a lot of questions and speculation

557
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.240
and all of that about you know, oh my gosh,

558
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.680
you know, how did he get the taser from him?

559
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:36.559
I'm gonna tell you how. I wasn't there, and I

560
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:40.400
don't have any information other than basic knowledge of he

561
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.400
gets the guy after he's done a bunch of different

562
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:48.240
things wrong. Then he's following that, you know, that that

563
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:50.440
course of action that you're supposed to take on the

564
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.480
continuum of force. He showed presence, he had his lights.

565
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:55.599
He gets the guy, he crashes, he pulls over, he

566
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:59.920
pulls the taser. He's you know, he's a taser. Taser, taser, taser, taser.

567
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.359
He hits. But what people may not realize is that

568
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.720
whenever a taser is deployed, even if the prongs aren't

569
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:09.880
don't hit right, they can still like dry stun you

570
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:12.119
with it. Still. It doesn't mean that it's just inactive.

571
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:14.160
They can still dry stun you. So here you are

572
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.279
fistfighting some guy. I'm assuming I haven't. There's been no

573
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.839
release of tape or anything. But he says there's a struggle,

574
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:21.920
so they're fighting.

575
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:22.160
You.

576
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.680
Well, he fought through that taser, right.

577
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:26.559
Fought through the taser, which I would be willing to

578
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.160
bet was dry stunning him. And then finally he drew

579
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.920
his weapon. The guy didn't stop and he got popped.

580
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.599
That's how it goes after.

581
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:36.720
He was getting tased. I mean, and that's kind of

582
00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.759
my question when you have a taser, Kelly, because you

583
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.599
would know when you have a taser and you shoot

584
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.359
that taser, what I'm thinking is, Okay, you got one

585
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.359
prong there and it comes out, it hits the person

586
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.319
you know, in the buttocks or somewhere, and you tase them.

587
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:57.279
First of all, tasers don't always work some people. It

588
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.000
just don't affect him for whatever reason.

589
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.680
It depends on your body. It depends on your body

590
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:02.480
mass and everything.

591
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.559
But my second question is does it have more prongs

592
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:08.839
or is it just one prong on one shot.

593
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:13.039
So the model that this deputy had, as far as

594
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.279
I would know, is it two prongs come out? You

595
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:17.519
get hit with two, and.

596
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.640
That's what's two separate wires.

597
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.599
Yes, and that's what's conducting that current. So if the

598
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.480
suspect was like hit with one and the other one missed,

599
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.319
then he's not getting the full taste. Didn't the suspect

600
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:31.839
get tased first with a partial Didn't somebody say that

601
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.400
in another.

602
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.599
According to the quote from the sheriff, the deputy to

603
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.640
pullyed the taser and the suspect fought through the taser.

604
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:41.680
Yeah, so this is what then.

605
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.960
Started tasing the deputy. So how did they had? My

606
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.079
question to you, listen to my question. That's the dry

607
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:49.039
How many wires do you have?

608
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.799
Because if it's a cartridge and then you refire to

609
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.039
light them back up? Okay, okay, So what it sounds like.

610
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.319
To me, you shoot more than once? You can shoot

611
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:00.920
it someone more than once with the taser.

612
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:04.079
Well, you're just lighting him back up, like the prong

613
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.279
is in you and then you're just lighting them back up.

614
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.279
But if I then disarm you with the taser and

615
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:12.680
then I shoot you with the taser, how's that possible?

616
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.519
That's because that's not what I think happened. I think

617
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:16.240
that the cartridge would be taken out and then he's

618
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.920
dry stunning him with it. It's like a it's a

619
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.759
dry star guy and so so I'm thinking a prong

620
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:28.119
hitting hit the bad guy, okay, and then he fought

621
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:29.799
the taser off of him, but he could still pop

622
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:31.960
you with that taser. He's just not shooting you with

623
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.839
a with a new.

624
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.839
So the electricity is still coming. He said that the

625
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.920
guy that fought through the taser and then tas the

626
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:44.240
deputy was basically using the taser on his skin. That's

627
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.240
what I like, a stun gun, I as.

628
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.599
I'm assuming that's what this is. I mean again, I

629
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:51.400
don't I don't know what model. I don't know.

630
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.079
Well, you know, a regular firearm has bullets. Yeah, so

631
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:57.160
I didn't know if a taser had more than one

632
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.480
one shot. If you will, one bullet in it that

633
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.240
can hit somebody and tase them.

634
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:05.880
I think the one that this deputy would have had

635
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.079
would have been a cartridge that goes in and then

636
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.440
when you fire, it's a two prong that comes out.

637
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:13.160
But you you want to get a solid two You

638
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.279
have to get both wires in the in the guy

639
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.160
to get the full effect of If you only hit

640
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:20.720
him with one wire, you got a problem.

641
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.680
I got you. Well, there you have it.

642
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.400
Now I haven't done taser training in a long time.

643
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.319
So you know, if it's a newer model or something,

644
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.079
then I'm wrong and y'all can cheat me out on them.

645
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.200
All right, all right, let's go to reform Alabama.

646
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.079
Okay, reform Alabama? Yeah, all right, and Alabama with reform?

647
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.839
Are you man? I don't know anything. You've been everywhere.

648
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:45.680
I hadn't been anywhere.

649
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:47.559
I've been there, but I'm familiar with that.

650
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:51.680
An Alabama man accused of brutally killing a US Army

651
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.079
veteran and his wife inside their home had publicly praised

652
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:58.359
the couple and their family for years on social media,

653
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.599
including a post that but he did just right before

654
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:05.319
their deaths. George Birmingham, forty six years old, was arrested

655
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.079
early on the early morning of July the twelfth, and

656
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.199
later charged with capital murder, two counts of murder, second degree, burglary,

657
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:15.599
drug possession, and resisting arrest, and connection with the deaths

658
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.400
of Justin Elrod forty three and Lena Elrod forty two.

659
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.360
The couple was found dead around twelve fifteen am inside

660
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.199
of their home after authorities responded to reports of a burglary.

661
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:29.719
Court documents alleged that Birmingham killed Justin l Rod by

662
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:31.880
striking him or stabbing him around the head and the

663
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.760
body with a metallic object, and killed Lena Elrod by

664
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:38.840
beating her in the head with an electric reciprocating saw

665
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.360
that sounds like a nightmare.

666
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.440
Wow.

667
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:45.199
Authorities said the killings occurred before a burglary of the home.

668
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.559
Birmingham is being held without bond on the capital murder charge.

669
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:51.360
Facebook posts show Birmingham had portrayed the l Rods as

670
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:54.480
close friends for roughly a decade. Posts mentioning the couple

671
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.840
date back nearly ten years, and in a June sixteenth post,

672
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.519
less than a month before the killings, Birmingham wrote about

673
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.599
a hypothetical Mars colonization trip, enlisted friends and family that

674
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:08.760
he would take, including Justin and Lina. No one listens

675
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:10.800
better than him and no one is more fun to

676
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.199
argue with than her, he wrote, closing with I love

677
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:16.079
you guys. He added that he was very thankful for them.

678
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.400
In February of twenty seventeen, Birmingham shared a GoFundMe campaign

679
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:22.440
to help cover medical expenses for one of the l

680
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.159
Rod children, writing that the family was very dear to

681
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:28.360
his heart. That May, he hosted a benefit comedy show

682
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.840
to raise further funds for the family. In a twenty

683
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.760
eighteen post, he referred to some of my favorite ladies.

684
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:36.320
That was a quote alongside a photo that included one

685
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.800
of Elrod's daughters. Authorities have described Birmingham as an acquaintance

686
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.360
of the couple, but a daughter of Lena l Rod

687
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.119
and so this would have been Justin's stepdaughter said that

688
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.840
Birmingham had been close with the family for years, that

689
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.880
his wife ran a cleaning business with Lena, and he

690
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.000
was best friends with Justin. So Justin Elrod served in

691
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.960
the US Army as a military police officer and was

692
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.400
deployed to both have Guesstan and Iraq. After leaving the military,

693
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.199
he worked as a federal correctional officer in Aliceville and

694
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.239
then Friends and family members described him as humble, hard working,

695
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.679
and just an all around nice guy. Aliceville Mayor Terrence

696
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.400
Wyndham said el Rod was the last person that I

697
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:17.920
would think that something like this would happen to, noting

698
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.880
that he had survived military service and prison work, only

699
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:24.440
to die in this manner. Coworkers expressed ongoing shock at

700
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.159
the loss. The Pickens County Sheriff's office asked the public

701
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.760
to keep the victims' families and the first responders who

702
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.800
discovered the scene in their thoughts. The Elrod family requested

703
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.840
that memorial donations be made to the Wounded Warrior Project

704
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:38.159
in Justin's memory. And we want to give our shout

705
00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:41.039
out to listener Cindy Schwartz for sending us that story.

706
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:44.760
Yeah, so on this one, just a couple of things

707
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.719
I want to say. First of all, when I heard

708
00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:51.119
this story, it was one of the strangest stories I

709
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.519
had ever reviewed. Because this guy, y'all, wrap your mind

710
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.519
around this, for the last ten years, has been acting

711
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:03.840
like he's besties with these people and you don't hopefully

712
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:07.000
you're not going to kill your bestie, right. Not only that,

713
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:09.239
I had a picture in my head. It's funny how

714
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.639
perception is, but I have had a picture in my

715
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.760
head of what these people looked like. And if you're

716
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.119
watching the Patreon right now, you see what they look like.

717
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.880
And that picture was, you know, maybe a smaller guy

718
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:25.079
and all of those sorts of things. This dude, this

719
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:30.000
military guy, is absolutely jacked. He is a big dude.

720
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:35.360
And the guy that actually killed him is a bigger dude.

721
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.440
One of them though, was very healthy, and one of

722
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.639
them is just jacked with muscle on top of muscle.

723
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:47.239
So they haven't come out with what spurred this as

724
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:50.000
far as there had to be something going on somewhere,

725
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:54.039
because the daughter of the guy that killed him says, oh, no,

726
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:59.920
they weren't only friends. There was a working relationship between

727
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.960
the wife and this person's wife apparently, or this person's relative.

728
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:08.000
So we're going to try to keep you pasted on it.

729
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:10.599
But what a strange you know, ten years worth of

730
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:13.599
Facebook post loving these people and you kill them.

731
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.880
Yeah, I don't know why my brain went to the

732
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.440
fact that I think that this guy and you know,

733
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:19.760
you just make up this an area in your head

734
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:21.079
of how you think this could have happened when you're

735
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:25.039
looking at people. But because of the fitness of the husband,

736
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.400
I'm more inclined to think that that the killer kind

737
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.119
of snuck him that's why, you know, like he wasn't

738
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.079
prepared for that. And then the tool he used to

739
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.880
kill the wife seems like something he just grabbed out

740
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.000
of out of proximity, like it was right there and

741
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:41.760
he could use it.

742
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:45.079
Yeah, because that's a strange it's very so.

743
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:46.639
Maybe then she came in on it, saw it and

744
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:48.400
he was like, oh, got to get rid of that witness.

745
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:51.079
Yeah, strange, I don't know. I mean, that guy's a

746
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.360
big dude. That's a big dude right there. He's he's

747
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:58.079
what sixty how many inchest does it say he is tall?

748
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.800
Because of course God forbid me sixteen sixteen sixty six inches?

749
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:06.559
So what does that in feat? Well it's actually that's

750
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.000
like five six So he's short God, but he's stout.

751
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:10.000
Yeah.

752
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.679
So well, anyway, hopefully we'll get in for more information

753
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:18.440
on that. Now we're gonna go to Twin Falls, Idaho,

754
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:21.360
and you know, one of the most trending stories in

755
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:25.440
the country right now, horrible, horrific A gumman open fire

756
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:29.679
at a crowded in and out burger restaurant in Twin Falls.

757
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:33.679
This was Saturday afternoon this past Saturday. He killed three

758
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:37.480
people and wounded seven others before dying of a self

759
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.639
inflicted gunshot wound. The attack occurred around two twenty nine

760
00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:45.199
PM at the In and Out Burger on Blue Lakes

761
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:48.639
Boulevard in Twin Falls, and it opened just a week

762
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.480
earlier to this incident. On July twenty fourth. It was

763
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:57.480
part of California based chain's expansion into Idaho. The restaurant

764
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:02.519
sits in a busy commercial area. Twin Falls Police Chief

765
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.960
Matthew Hicks identified the shooter as twenty four year old

766
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:10.960
Chad Williams. Hicks said investigators believe Williams acted alone. He

767
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:14.679
died nearby from what authorities determined was a self inflicted

768
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:18.760
gunshot wound after being confronted by an off duty Idaho

769
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:24.639
State Police trooper and an armed private citizen who returned fire. Quote.

770
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:28.000
We believe their actions helped drive the suspect away from

771
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.280
the scene, preventing more casualties. And I can't agree with

772
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:35.119
that more. The armed civilian has been identified in multiple

773
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:40.159
reports as Jordan Selenas who is thirty five oh Kimberly, Idaho.

774
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:43.079
And if you've seen the video of this guy, he

775
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:47.440
looks like he just stepped off of the Yellowstone TV

776
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:51.039
show or something, But actually he was a healthcare worker, y'all,

777
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:57.800
and caregiver. Selena said he drew a suppressed pistol engaged

778
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.719
the gunman after arriving for lunch here in gunfire. Police

779
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:05.480
have not I've officially identified the off duty trooper. Of

780
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:09.239
the seven people injured, tube retreated and released, three were

781
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.199
listed in stable condition and two remaining critical condition. This

782
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:17.559
is as of the latest update, and those figures are

783
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:21.239
described as preliminary. Now tell you a little bit about

784
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:27.519
those who died. Ashley Garbay, who is twenty three of Stockton, California,

785
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.239
an in and Out associate and manager who had traveled

786
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.360
to Twin Falls to help train workers, and she ends

787
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:43.239
up dead sadly. Christopher Klanch who is fifty nine of Hagerman, Idaho.

788
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:47.760
He worked at what's known as the Residance Ranch Recovery

789
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:52.039
Center and he helped others with sobriety. Relatives said he

790
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.199
was an avid in and Out fan and had been

791
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:58.920
excited by the Twin Falls location and wanted to get

792
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.760
there early on. Dan Schultz, who was sixty six from

793
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:07.079
Salt Lake City, Utah. He and his wife, Rennette, were

794
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:10.000
visiting Idaho over the weekend on their way to a

795
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.280
family reunion. They were charging their electronic car in a

796
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.800
nearby nearby the In and Out location when the shooting

797
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:23.079
broke out. Dale's wife, Rennette, is being treated for extensive

798
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:27.199
shoulder injuries following that shooting, and of course Dale passed away.

799
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:31.559
Among the wounded was Terry Dudley, a local taxi driver

800
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.960
who was shot while charging his electric vehicle nearby, probably

801
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.480
in the same area as the Schultz were, and he

802
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:42.400
was wounded. There were several other people wounded they have

803
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:48.440
not identified yet, and a motive remains under investigation. Nobody

804
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:52.760
knows why the hell this guy did this. The only

805
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.360
thing we know as of this point is that he

806
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.360
attended the College of Southern Idaho from August of twenty

807
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:03.079
two to August of twenty twenty three, but he didn't graduate,

808
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:07.199
and he worked briefly as a student senator before being

809
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.119
impeached for lack of engagement.

810
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.039
Yeah. So, uh, it's hard. You know, I have an opinion,

811
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:19.079
but I'm sure to drive it this quickly is silly,

812
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.880
but it sounds like this is gonna be that typical thing. Unfortunately,

813
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.960
stay typical. Where this guy goes off to college, he

814
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:29.119
starts withdrawing from social life, he becomes recluse. I bet

815
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:33.159
there's going to be online metadata that they're gonna find

816
00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:36.400
of him going through some you know, crazy thoughts and

817
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:38.519
being part of weird groups or something. And then he

818
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:40.199
goes out and he's going to go make his mark

819
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.320
by shooting people at an in and out burger.

820
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.639
Well, this is all speculation.

821
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.840
It is absolutely, absolutely speculation. But he didn't know anybody there,

822
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:50.239
so this had to be some sort of internal personal

823
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:53.599
problem that he went and he took out on innocent

824
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.360
victims and bystanders. And it sounds like he's shooting everywhere.

825
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:58.920
He's he's shooting taxi drivers, and he shoot, you know,

826
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.199
like people that are just near by. I don't know,

827
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:03.159
you're a coward. Whatever the reason is, it's not good

828
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.880
enough to do that to people. Yeah, I'm not impressed.

829
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:09.599
All right, Let's go to Spokane, Washington. A thirty seven

830
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:12.159
year old Spokane man has been arrested on suspicion of

831
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:14.880
first degree arson in connection with the Old Trails Fire,

832
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:18.159
one of three major wildfires that have destroyed hundreds of

833
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:21.519
structures and forced tens of thousands of residents to evacuate

834
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:25.199
the county. Aaron Farranacci I believe is how you would say.

835
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.559
That was taken into custody around five pm Monday without

836
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.000
incident after detective served in a rest warrant and a

837
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.480
search warrant at his residence. In the twenty eight hundred

838
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:37.400
block of West Elliott Drive. The sheriff announced this on Monday.

839
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:40.320
Faranacci is being held at the Spokane County Jail on

840
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:43.880
one million dollars bond. The Old Trails Fire started Saturday

841
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.280
morning near the intersection of North Old Trail Road and

842
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.480
West I don't even know how to say this word.

843
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:54.760
Euc led euslid, euclid. I'm ignorant today. I don't know

844
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.800
how to say that. Another road, and then north of

845
00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:00.599
Airway Heights. It rapidly spread through Riverside State Park and

846
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.679
into neighborhoods in the northwest Spokane area, and it became

847
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.000
the largest and most destructive of the three blazes in

848
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.639
what officials are calling the Spoken Complex Fire. I'm gonna

849
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:13.760
say this real quick too. I was getting notifications on

850
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.920
my phone about mandatory evacuations for this. Were you, No,

851
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:20.039
I don't know why I was getting those. Preliminary estimates

852
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:23.599
put structural losses in the hundreds, with figures ranging from

853
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:26.760
around six hundred and forty to more than seven hundred

854
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.880
billion buildings destroyed or damaged across the complex, and many

855
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.079
of them are homes tens of thousands of people. Estimates

856
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.119
have ranged from about sixty five thousand to sixty seven

857
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:41.320
thousand were under evacuation orders. According to the investigators, a

858
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:44.559
witness reported seeing a man acting suspiciously and kneeling in

859
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:49.519
the grass near the fire's eventual ignition point on Saturday.

860
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:53.320
The same witness later contacted Airway Heights Police after seeing

861
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:58.119
that man again and noticing spoke smoke. Officers located Fernichi

862
00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:59.920
roughly a mile to a mile and a half from

863
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.119
the origin, detained him and questioned him. They then released

864
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.119
him at that time so that resources could follow and

865
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.679
focus up on the rapidly growing fire. But what's weird

866
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:13.320
to me is what he was in possession of when

867
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:15.639
they let him go. Because he was found in possession

868
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:20.519
of waterproof matches and a butane lighter. That's odd to

869
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:22.239
me that he was let go. I don't know why

870
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:26.280
he didn't remain detained. Spokane County Sheriff's Office Major Crimes

871
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:29.320
detectives working with the Washington Department of National Resources fire

872
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.760
investigators later determined that the fire originated at the exact

873
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.480
location where the witness had observed Pharnici kneeling. Evidence of

874
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.239
the scene was consistent with ignition by a match or

875
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:43.480
a lighter. Authorities obtained a warrant Monday, and they arrested him.

876
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.320
It is a continuing and ongoing investigation. He emphasized that

877
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.800
the citizen tips and awareness were critical to the relatively

878
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:55.239
quick identification of the suspect. Fernicci, who is a Spokane resident,

879
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:59.360
has a prior felony manslaughter conviction in Arizona, stemming from

880
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.119
a twenty ten incident in Mesa in which he fatally

881
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:06.119
shot his father following a domestic dispute. He has no

882
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:09.320
prior arson convictions, though officials noted that he had previously

883
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:15.000
been contacted regarding arson related behavior. Investigators have not linked

884
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.400
him to the other two major fires in the area,

885
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:20.639
the Autumn Lane and the Fairview fires, which causes still

886
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:25.159
remain under investigation. During questioning, Fernietzsche reportedly told authorities they

887
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.000
quote didn't know the whole story end quote. That was

888
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:31.599
according to the sheriff, the fires remain a major priority,

889
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:34.480
with low or zero containment reported in the day's following

890
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.800
ignition amid challenging winds and dry conditions. Washington Governor Bob

891
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:42.039
Ferguson has described the situation as likely the worst natural

892
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:43.639
disaster and spoken.

893
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:47.239
History unbelievable that one person can be responsible for all

894
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.079
of that. And I know everybody out there Lessening has

895
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.639
seen at least some of the footage of the devastation

896
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:56.440
going on right now in Washington. And with fires, it's

897
00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:01.840
different than any other sort of event because these fires,

898
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:06.079
which obviously this person started, but sometimes they're just wildfires.

899
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:10.880
It's just dry and hot and something sparks. And in

900
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:16.079
this case, you know, you're talking sixty plus thousand people affected.

901
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.400
And when your house burns down, it's totally gone. It's

902
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:22.360
different than like a flood, where at least, you know,

903
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:24.760
I can speak from experience, at least you got sticks,

904
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:27.960
you know, a shell of your house to start with.

905
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:32.000
I mean, everything is totally destroyed in a situation like this.

906
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:36.440
So somebody that would do something like that is to

907
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:38.000
me about as low as you can get.

908
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.320
He murdered or you killed your own father and then

909
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:41.400
you went and destroyed.

910
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:45.400
Yeah, and apparently in that situation it was considered justified.

911
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.679
I don't know anything about that case, but I mean,

912
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:50.880
he's out, and so that makes me think that if

913
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.559
he killed his own father, maybe there was something behind that.

914
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:56.320
I don't know, if there was some justification for it. Apparently,

915
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.360
if he was out, I would assume I don't know.

916
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.199
I don't think that what he did was you know,

917
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:05.320
obviously he doesn't care. Obviously he doesn't care about other people.

918
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:27.519
All right, let's go into lustful Lawbreakers. All right, we're

919
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:31.199
gonna get to Saint Petersburg, Florida for a really bad

920
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:34.840
young lady. A nineteen year old woman was arrested this

921
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:39.000
past Saturday after she allegedly spat in the face of

922
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:43.039
a restaurant manager while being escorted out of a downtown

923
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:46.559
Saint Petersburg establishment. And I know what you're saying, Well,

924
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:51.519
she spat in someone's face. House that a Lustful Lawbreakers segment. Well,

925
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:55.199
the reason that she spat in this restaurant owner's face

926
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:58.920
is because she got caught engaging in sex in the bathroom.

927
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:00.760
Oh yeah, well that's the in one place i'd want

928
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:02.039
to be great. Yes.

929
00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:06.599
According to police, Hailey Surball was confronted by employees of

930
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:11.119
What's none as Shish So Crispy this is around one

931
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.599
am last Saturday for having sex in the bathroom at

932
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:18.440
the restaurant. When staff members were guiding her toward the exit.

933
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:22.159
She turns and she spits in the face of an

934
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:26.639
employee who was the restaurant's general manager. The spit was

935
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:31.239
visible on the victim's face and multiple witnesses observed the act.

936
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:36.239
According to the arrest warrant, she was charged with misdemeanor battery,

937
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:39.679
which it surprises me that she's caught having sex in

938
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:42.679
the bathroom, why is she not charged with that too?

939
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:46.039
But missdemeanor battery was what she was charged with and

940
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:49.679
was booked into the panelas county jail, later released on

941
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:53.320
one thousand dollars bond. In court records indicate that she

942
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:57.960
faces other pending felony cases. Prior to this stuff going on,

943
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:01.280
She was previously arrested last chair in connection with an

944
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.840
auto burglary and being an accessory after the fact to

945
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:09.079
an aggravated assault with a firearm. She was also she

946
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:14.199
also accepted pre trial diversion programs after an arrest for

947
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:17.760
criminal mischief involving the slashing of a car tire. So

948
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.960
this Carl's decision making is not the best. As you

949
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.679
can see, there's no indication that the manager who was

950
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:29.360
spit on. Rather, if there's no indication that, yeah, the

951
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:33.039
manager who was spit on has any charges related to

952
00:51:33.079 --> 00:51:36.559
the incident. She was identified solely as the victim of

953
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.239
the battery, so apparently she didn't fight back, but even

954
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:41.519
if she did, they wouldn't have charged her for that.

955
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:45.920
Now you may wonder what shesh show Crispy is that?

956
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:48.079
And I did because I'm like, what kind of name

957
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:52.039
is that? It's a popular Asian fusion restaurant that expanded

958
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.800
from a food truck concept into a full brick and

959
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:59.760
mortar location in downtown Saint Petersburg, and apparently it has

960
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:01.679
a rather the lorch bathroom.

961
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:04.679
A big bathroom in an aphrodisiac on the plate, because

962
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.880
I mean, what are we doing that The bathroom at

963
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:10.039
the dad Gum Asian Fusion is where we're you know,

964
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.039
getting down.

965
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:13.519
I speak for yourself, Well, hey, you.

966
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:17.480
Know, do your thing. But this her history aggravates me.

967
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:19.920
This is why I was never allowed to be a judge,

968
00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.480
because I would be slamming her. She's been slashing tires,

969
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:29.039
banging in the bathroom. Slammed she should be because she's

970
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:30.239
making she's already.

971
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:32.360
Been slammed in the bathroom. That's make it slam in

972
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:33.039
court next.

973
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:39.119
Okay, all I'm saying is that kind of that kind

974
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:41.079
of person gets on my nervous because you're just being

975
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:44.159
a you're being a foolish, lustful lawbreaker.

976
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:49.760
Girls up Kelly's recording. It's really late in the day,

977
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.159
which is why the patron members haven't got this. Still

978
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:59.440
late in the day. So Kelly's recording later got foolish

979
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:01.719
villains and loves lawburkers.

980
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:04.119
She's got to be all confuzzled over here, all right,

981
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.559
So we're going to come right back here to baton rouge.

982
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:09.079
But this case has made national news and so this

983
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:12.400
update is kind of interesting. So the Madison Brooks case

984
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:14.440
that is huge in our area. It's been a long

985
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:17.199
time coming that this would go to court. So Judge

986
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.199
Gail Ray ruled Thursday to allow spectators to wear pink

987
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.840
to the courthouse in support of Madison Brooks at the

988
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:29.159
trial of her accused rapist, Desmond Carter. Now that's kind

989
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.360
of a something people didn't expect, you know. There was

990
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:33.760
a lot of talk online of your shirt color is

991
00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:36.719
going to be what we're having to rule on. Well,

992
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:39.280
an attorney for Carter had filed a motion to block

993
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:43.559
Madison Brooks supporters from wearing pink during the upcoming trials.

994
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.320
While Judge Ray denied the motion to ban the pink

995
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:50.039
out t shirts with Brooks picture, signs and badges. Those

996
00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:53.159
will be prohibited. So Carter is one of three suspects

997
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.119
facing charges in the rape of Brooks before her death. Carter,

998
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.480
who was seventeen at the time of his arrest, will

999
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:00.719
be tried as an adult for first re rape and

1000
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:03.800
third degree rape. If convicted of first degree rape, he

1001
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:06.239
faces a mandatory sense of life in prison without the

1002
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:10.239
possibility of parole. Third degree carries a penalty of up

1003
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:12.840
to twenty five years in prison. Carter's trial is set

1004
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:16.440
to begin August seventeenth, after failed attempts to dismiss the charges.

1005
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:21.000
Other pretrial motions considered were being considered, including a motion

1006
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:24.440
that two charges create double jeopardy for Carter because the

1007
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:27.599
first degree in the third degree rape reference the same act.

1008
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:31.400
Anyone attending the trial, including Brooks's family, will be allowed

1009
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.440
to wear pink in the courtroom. The judge is quoted

1010
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.000
as saying pink is often used in merchandise for the

1011
00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:38.960
Madison Brooks Foundation, which is a nonprofit that was founded

1012
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.519
by her mother. The defense argued that plans for spectators

1013
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:45.719
to wear pink were a quote plot to intimidate the jury.

1014
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:50.039
Of course they would. So yeah, I got no problem

1015
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:52.800
with that, if you know, if you if you want

1016
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:58.039
to show support for the family in this tragic incident.

1017
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:00.400
I got no problem with anybody wearing pink. I don't

1018
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:06.119
think that's gonna quote unquote intimidated jury. They're gonna know

1019
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:10.000
who the supporters are because apparently you sit on one

1020
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.480
side when you're the supporter, on the other side when

1021
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:14.840
you're the other person supporter. And Jim Chapman didn't know

1022
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:17.000
that and went to a trial and got ugly looks

1023
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.760
all the time because apparently I was sitting with who

1024
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.119
the prosecution deemed the enemy. But that's a story for

1025
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:26.719
another day. Now, in this case, I didn't have a

1026
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:29.719
problem with it, and I would have been shocked if

1027
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:33.440
the judge would have not allowed that. And I'll take

1028
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.679
that a step further and say, I've seen many trials

1029
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:39.119
where people wear the picture of the person and you know,

1030
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:43.280
justice for and whoever that person is. I would think

1031
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.079
there's precedent in this case.

1032
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:47.159
I worldy God, there is, and I think that the

1033
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:50.239
judge made a good decision here. So here's here's the deal.

1034
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:55.960
Whenever you are in the the you're an observer of court. Okay,

1035
00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:00.960
it is probably not in good decision to wear shirts

1036
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:03.880
that would have a victim's face on it, even though

1037
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:06.400
you want to. I know, emotionally it's a knee jerk

1038
00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:08.000
thing that I can't well, you know why can't I.

1039
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:10.559
But I think it's a smart decision that that is

1040
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:13.440
not allowed by a lot of judges because what it

1041
00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:18.840
does do is raise an appeal opportunity based on the

1042
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:23.320
very fact that you wearing that could adversely, the argument

1043
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:26.840
would be, would adversely affect the jury in terms of

1044
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:31.079
emotion or or you know whatever. I remember very vividly

1045
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:33.639
speaking with Max Shachter, whose son, you know, was killed

1046
00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:35.760
by the Parkland shooter, and when they were told that

1047
00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:38.280
they couldn't wear shirts that had you know, their son's

1048
00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:40.559
picture on it, it really enraged him. You know that

1049
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:43.960
my son's dead and I can't represent him. But I

1050
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:47.920
understand why. It's actually to save you from further problems

1051
00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:50.400
if you know, you don't want to give them a

1052
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:53.000
reason to be able to make an appeal because of

1053
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:58.159
an unobjective courtroom experience which you are supposed to be

1054
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:01.880
given by law, and the Constitution. So pink, I don't

1055
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:06.760
think is explicitly implied to Madison Brooks. Lots of people

1056
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:08.800
like pink, and I think maybe I'm going too deep

1057
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:12.599
with it, but a color does not represent just one

1058
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.719
person in this world, but a shirt with her face

1059
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.039
on it would, And so I do agree. I think

1060
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:19.719
that's why the judge made the right decision. You can

1061
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:22.840
wear pink, just nothing with her face or logo or

1062
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:26.719
anything that may somewhat influence the jury or give an

1063
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:30.360
opportunity to raise an appeal. I think the judge again

1064
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:33.960
is saving these people from themselves in a way by

1065
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:37.320
making it as objective and neutral as possible, so it

1066
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:40.119
won't give this guy the opportunity to get some type

1067
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:42.920
of appeal out in the event that he is convicted.

1068
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:43.840
So good, good move.

1069
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:49.760
Yeah, so big case in Louisiana's actually going down in

1070
00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:53.239
just a couple of weeks, very close to as a

1071
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:56.800
matter of fact, some of the accused or from despair.

1072
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:00.840
So oh yeah, we'll bring you the dates on that one.

1073
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:03.800
Now let's get into another case that's close to home.

1074
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:07.079
And if you listen to my podcast, you're no stranger

1075
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:10.760
to this one. I've dropped four episodes on this particular case,

1076
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:13.920
and that is the Nolan Wells case. A third person

1077
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:18.719
has been arrested for allegedly threatening witnesses in Nolan's Nolan

1078
00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:22.960
Wells case one month after his disappearance. And I'm just

1079
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:25.199
going to be clear here wasn't just witnesses. It was

1080
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:30.920
the mother who is also a judge, a sitting judge

1081
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:34.679
of one of the boys that was involved in this

1082
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:39.559
case named Warren So that that led to an arrest,

1083
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:42.440
and they have several more that have now been arrested.

1084
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.880
This case is out of control. It has fueled a

1085
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:51.199
lot of attention on Well's friends and their actions surrounding

1086
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:56.039
his disappearance, and his family as well as all these

1087
00:58:56.079 --> 00:59:00.480
boys have faced a ton of criticism and online abuse

1088
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:05.320
with no provable anything evidence wise. As of yet now,

1089
00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:09.840
no one has been charged y'all with anything on wells

1090
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:14.559
disappearance or death. In the latest update, Edward James Porter,

1091
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:21.159
who was forty, was arrested on charges of transmitting threatening communications.

1092
00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:25.800
On Thursday, July thirtieth, Joseph Demarci, who is a twenty

1093
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:29.159
seven year old California resident, arrested for the same thing

1094
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:34.920
pretty much and Michelle Edwards of Cincinnati, Ohio has also

1095
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:39.639
been arrested on the same charges for calling in bomb threats. Now,

1096
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:42.199
these people didn't know each other. This is all just

1097
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:49.599
threats getting called in and messages voice messages threatening the

1098
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:53.360
lives of these people. And it's got to stop. It

1099
00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:56.760
is doing nothing to get to the bottom of what

1100
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:01.239
happened to Knowen Wells, it's only creating division. And uh,

1101
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:04.320
guess what these people are fighting back. They have a

1102
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:07.039
go fundme. It's not called go funme, it's Gifts and Go,

1103
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:10.920
which is like the uh I guess the uh the

1104
01:00:11.480 --> 01:00:17.960
the sister Well, it's the competition of GoFundMe and gifts

1105
01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:21.039
and Go right now, in just a couple of days

1106
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:24.239
in relation to these boys, has raised almost three hundred

1107
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:28.760
thousand dollars for these young men to fight back against

1108
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:32.199
all the defamation that they are getting right now as

1109
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:35.880
it relates to this case in their view. And so

1110
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:40.559
it's it's it's a pretty uh hot case right now,

1111
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:42.840
and the threats are out of control.

1112
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.239
Yeah, and let me tell you, the people that are

1113
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:44.679
calling in.

1114
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:47.199
These threats are uh idiots.

1115
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:48.760
They're not only idiots, but I want to tell you

1116
01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:55.159
they exemplify exactly what the numb nuts that that don't

1117
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:57.840
think about anything. They just make up their own decision

1118
01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:00.480
about what must have happened, with no rhyme or reason

1119
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:02.840
other than what the media is putting out there. And

1120
01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:05.840
pundits are out there arguing these what ifs with no

1121
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.760
evidence whatsoever. And so I'm getting frustrated with this case

1122
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:14.400
because all we know, okay, all we know is a

1123
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.880
black kid. If you watch the news, a black kid's dead.

1124
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:19.840
White kids must have done it just because he was

1125
01:01:19.880 --> 01:01:23.360
black and they were white, and don't we don't really

1126
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:28.239
know anything else. And it's mind blowing to me that

1127
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:31.199
people would go to the extent of making up their minds.

1128
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.840
It must have been malice. It had to have been malice.

1129
01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:36.679
I think that you have to be a racist within

1130
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:40.599
your own soul to go after somebody like that with

1131
01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:44.159
no evidence. You are the problem, calling in bomb threats

1132
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:47.519
and all of that. Let's go to Plymouth's, Massachusetts. The

1133
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.039
murder trial of Lindsay Clancy, the former Massachusetts General Hospital

1134
01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:54.000
labor and delivery nurse accused of strangling her three young

1135
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:57.320
children in twenty twenty three, is ongoing in Plymouth Superior Court,

1136
01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:00.119
with testimony focusing on the events of the killings and

1137
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:03.199
her mental state at the time. Clancy, who is thirty five,

1138
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:05.639
has pled not guilty to three counts of first degree

1139
01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:09.320
murder in the deaths of her children, Cora, who was five, Dawson,

1140
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:12.360
who is three, in Callan who was eight months. Prosecutors

1141
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:17.039
dropped three related strangulation charges ahead of trial, calling them

1142
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:20.880
redundant to the murder counts. If convicted of the first

1143
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:23.360
degree murder, she faces a mandatory sentence of life in

1144
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:26.920
prison without the possibility of parole. Authorities alleged that on

1145
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.480
January twenty fourth, Clancy sent her husband or her then husband,

1146
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:33.239
Patrick Clancy, out of the house to pick up some

1147
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.519
takeout and some medication. While he was gone, she strangled

1148
01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:38.960
the three children with exercise bands in the basement of

1149
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.480
the family home. She then cut her wrists and her

1150
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:44.280
neck and jumped from a second story window, suffering a

1151
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:47.159
spinal cord injury that left her paralyzed from the waist down.

1152
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:50.519
She remains in a wheelchair and has been held at

1153
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:55.679
is This Tewksbury Hospital. On that Patrick Clancy discovered the

1154
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:58.400
children upon returning home and made a frantic nine to

1155
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:00.679
one one call that was played in coreps, during which

1156
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:03.800
he is heard yelling she killed the kids. Jurors have

1157
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:06.840
also her testimony about the scene, the children's injuries, and

1158
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.559
Clancy's own medical treatment after the fall. The central issue

1159
01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:15.400
at trial is whether Clancy was criminally responsible. Her defense attorney,

1160
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:18.880
which is Kevin Reddington, argues she was suffering from postpartum

1161
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.199
psychosis and was over medicated at the time, claiming she

1162
01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:24.599
heard a voice telling her it was her quote unquote

1163
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:28.119
last chance to kill the children so she could kill herself.

1164
01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:31.800
The defense points to her history of seeking medical health treatment,

1165
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:34.639
including a voluntary stay at McLean Hospital in the weeks

1166
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:38.519
before the killings and a complex regiment of psychiatric medications.

1167
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:43.400
Prosecutors contend Clancy acted with deliberate premeditation and extreme atrocity

1168
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:46.519
and cruelty. They argue she intentionally cleared the house by

1169
01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:48.679
sending her husband on errands, and carried out the killings

1170
01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:54.119
swiftly and rationally rationally. Assistant District Attorney Buckingham has told

1171
01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:57.159
jurors that this was a case of was not a

1172
01:03:57.199 --> 01:03:59.280
case of a woman in the throes of psychosis, but

1173
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:03.079
one of intentions action. Jury selection began July twentieth, with

1174
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:06.239
a panel of twelve jurors and six alternate seated upon

1175
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:11.239
opening statements and testimony that followed This included multiple days

1176
01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:15.199
from Patrick Clancy, which was the ex husband, medical personnel,

1177
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:18.320
and others. The trials expected to last several weeks and

1178
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:20.880
has included emotional moments such as the playing of the

1179
01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:24.159
nine one one call and descriptions of the children's final moments.

1180
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:26.840
Clancy has appeared in court in a wheelchair. The case

1181
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:30.079
has drawn significant attention to issues of postpartia, mental illness,

1182
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.559
maternal mental health treatment, and criminal responsibility.

1183
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:37.719
And I'm not gonna say a whole lot about this

1184
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:41.119
for a couple of reasons. Number One, I'm a guy

1185
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:45.639
and I can't relate to postpartum depression. I know it

1186
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:50.159
exists because I know some people that suffer from that.

1187
01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:52.880
So I'm not going to give comments on something that

1188
01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:55.360
I don't understand. And I'm main enough to admit I

1189
01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:59.760
don't understand that horrific, tragic, can't imagine it, of course,

1190
01:04:59.800 --> 01:05:02.239
But I'll let you do the comment on this.

1191
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.800
Yeah, So obviously the trial's not over. We only know

1192
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:08.519
what we know from the trial. What I can tell

1193
01:05:08.559 --> 01:05:14.320
you is that the divide on this case is huge.

1194
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:17.719
There is a huge divide between people, and it seems

1195
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:22.119
to be, in my humble opinion, that we lost three children. Okay,

1196
01:05:22.119 --> 01:05:26.480
three children died, and a lot of people cannot get

1197
01:05:26.519 --> 01:05:31.159
past that statement to even want to listen to the

1198
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:35.559
evidence that's being placed. And I'm not saying it's not right.

1199
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:38.400
I mean, of course we should mourn these three children.

1200
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:43.079
They're innocent victims. I just do think that what's been

1201
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:48.840
presented so far at trial has been pretty eye opening.

1202
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:51.400
Pretty eye opening one so.

1203
01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:56.440
Is because I haven't followed this case. Is this lady

1204
01:05:57.119 --> 01:05:59.960
denying she did this or she's saying there's a rason

1205
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:01.039
them for why I did this.

1206
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:06.920
She's saying that she was in psychotic not just depression.

1207
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:08.599
That she was she's admitting to killing.

1208
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:12.679
Yeah, there's not a question that she killed the okay,

1209
01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:16.840
and she's admitting to that. Yeah, pretty m okay. The argument,

1210
01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:19.159
I mean, she pled not guilty, but I think it's on.

1211
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:22.679
The by reason of or not guilty, like I didn't

1212
01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:24.880
do it. That's that's the question I'm trying to. I

1213
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.800
don't mean in the ruption yet, but the question I'm

1214
01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:31.840
trying to get to is is she pleading not guilty

1215
01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:34.559
by reason of insanity because she had or by reason

1216
01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:40.000
of postpartum depression, or is she denying she even killed

1217
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:42.400
these children? I mean to me, that makes the difference.

1218
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:47.800
As as a follower the case, I guess.

1219
01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:50.519
She she's arguing. She's not arguing that she didn't do it.

1220
01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:54.880
She is arguing that she's not criminally she's responsible she

1221
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:58.320
did this, But her argument is that she was in

1222
01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:04.000
this postpartum psychosis and taking multiple medications. And I'll give

1223
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:05.840
you a little insight real quick. So the prosecution is

1224
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:10.599
saying that that her suicide attempt was a fake attempt

1225
01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:14.519
at suicide. I'll tell you this, that's the most real

1226
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:17.320
attempt at suicide I've ever seen in my life that

1227
01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:23.119
you would uh make yourself permanently disabled, shatter your spine.

1228
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:27.039
I saw the you know photos. It's a pretty freaking

1229
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:29.880
convincing fake attempt.

1230
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.679
Well, Marta shot himself in the head and they said

1231
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:33.440
it was a fake.

1232
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:40.599
This is yeah, this one's and there's also there's also

1233
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:44.960
something weird about it because based on all of the

1234
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.519
testimony to this point, Okay, the doctors and nurses are

1235
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:51.599
like and EMTs are kind of like she she couldn't talk.

1236
01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:54.519
I mean, she was out of it. She was not responsive,

1237
01:07:54.679 --> 01:07:57.639
you know type stuff. But her husband said that she

1238
01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:01.440
told him the kids were in the bay. But the

1239
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:05.039
medical people are like, nah, she couldn't talk. So there's

1240
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:07.880
a lot of stuff that's very I don't know, it's

1241
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:08.719
eye opening.

1242
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.119
Well, and that's why it's important that you follow trials.

1243
01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:14.639
And that's why I'm a big proponent of cameras in

1244
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:18.319
courtrooms because of things like that. You wouldn't know those

1245
01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:21.239
facts unless you have a good reporter that's reporting all

1246
01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:25.079
of them, unless you can do things like you're following

1247
01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:28.520
this case, you're watching it on court TV. Right there,

1248
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:29.039
you have it.

1249
01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:30.680
I'm trying to be very we.

1250
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.079
Would all love to be able to do that.

1251
01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:35.560
When I watch a trial, I'll just say this. I

1252
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:36.920
used to just watch a trial and me up in

1253
01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:39.319
my feelings, like when I was younger, But after some

1254
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:43.960
experiences in life in trials that were just travesties, I

1255
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:47.600
now think if that were me on trial, how would

1256
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:49.560
I want someone to listen to what I was saying?

1257
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:52.119
And I would want them to listen to everything that

1258
01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:55.119
was being said to be objective to listen, don't come

1259
01:08:55.159 --> 01:08:58.920
in with a pre preconceived notion about anything, start with

1260
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:01.800
a clean slate and nothing on your mind, and only

1261
01:09:01.880 --> 01:09:04.439
work with the evidence that is presented to you. That's

1262
01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:05.439
the fair thing to do.

1263
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:08.960
I agree, and I think that's on buy sides. How

1264
01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:12.239
that's a whether you have the prosecution or the defense.

1265
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:16.520
A case like a Nolan Wells case, people need to

1266
01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:22.600
watch that trial, and it's important that that be televised somewhere,

1267
01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:28.840
not to sensationalize anything, but there's so much division involved

1268
01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:31.720
in that case. If you could make up your own mind,

1269
01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:34.079
but you got to see all the facts, and that's

1270
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:35.479
the only way you're going to see them all.

1271
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:39.079
Yeah. I mean to the point too, that people can

1272
01:09:39.079 --> 01:09:41.079
have an agenda. Obviously, both sides will have an agenda

1273
01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:43.840
a trial. But just to give another example, the prosecution

1274
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.399
is saying that she was doctor shopping to get all

1275
01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:49.000
these pills because she was thinking about doing this. But

1276
01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:52.239
when I was listening to the evidence, that's not what

1277
01:09:52.359 --> 01:09:54.000
I heard. What I heard was that there was a

1278
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:58.479
practice with multiple providers in it. One provider left, actually

1279
01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:01.079
left the practice, and so so she was moved to

1280
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:04.960
a different provider. That's not doctor shopping in my opinion,

1281
01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:06.960
that's you're being moved to a different doctors the other

1282
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:09.239
one doesn't exist anymore. In that practice, it makes sense,

1283
01:10:09.279 --> 01:10:11.279
so use it, you know. And that's just to date. Guys,

1284
01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:12.920
don't jump all over me more have it may have

1285
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:15.359
broken since this has been dropped, but I'm just saying,

1286
01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:17.720
you know, using your own brain is powerful.

1287
01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:18.159
Uh.

1288
01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:20.680
You sleep good at night when you listen, and you

1289
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:22.880
don't just take other people's opinions.

1290
01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:25.880
Right, and not relying on other people's reporting, which can

1291
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:29.359
be inaccurate, as we're seeing in a lot of cases lately.

1292
01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:32.720
So I guess stay tuned for that one. Aren't you

1293
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:34.479
going to do an episode on that or something?

1294
01:10:34.520 --> 01:10:37.439
Absolutely? But I will not go a hardcore until I

1295
01:10:37.479 --> 01:10:41.000
have everything and I and I know people don't like that,

1296
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:43.000
but I think it's part of the problem when you

1297
01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:43.600
jump the gun.

1298
01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:47.000
Well what if what if you report just what's.

1299
01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:49.079
Occurring now that I am willing to do.

1300
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:53.079
You know, I would imagine you've got enough of the trial.

1301
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:55.560
I do a few, I have some notes and make

1302
01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:56.000
the people.

1303
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:00.840
All right, I'm not gonna I ask you any final

1304
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:31.800
thoughts because we're about to jump into overtime, all right, folks,

1305
01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:35.680
we are in overtime, and we're going to start off

1306
01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:42.039
in the true crime time machine. All right, We're going

1307
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:45.880
to go back to August second, excuse me. August seventh

1308
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:49.880
of eighteen eighty two. Now, what began as a heated

1309
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:54.199
argument over a small debt on election day along BlackBerry

1310
01:11:54.279 --> 01:11:57.920
Creek erupted into a savage knife and gun fight that

1311
01:11:58.079 --> 01:12:00.880
left one man dying and so at the stage for

1312
01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:04.560
one of the most prolific feuds in history. That's right,

1313
01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:05.840
the hat Field in.

1314
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:08.199
McCoy's Hatfield and McCoy's.

1315
01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:08.840
That's right.

1316
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:09.720
That sounds like a band.

1317
01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:12.119
You've never heard of a hat Field in McCoy I

1318
01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:15.479
guess not. Oh my gosh, y'all hear that she's never

1319
01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:16.880
heard of the Hatfield in McCoy's.

1320
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:17.439
Are you shocked?

1321
01:12:17.439 --> 01:12:18.000
Are you bullying?

1322
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:18.960
You shot me every week?

1323
01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:19.159
No?

1324
01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:24.039
That's like, that's the most famous feud in history. I'm shocked. Okay.

1325
01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:27.399
On August seventh of eighteen eighty two, voters and local

1326
01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:31.479
families gathered at BlackBerry Creek powling near the home of

1327
01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:35.279
Jerry Hatfield. This was in Pike Creek, Kentucky, just across

1328
01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:39.279
from the Tug Fork in West Virginia whiskey, of course

1329
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:43.560
flowing freely. It is Kentucky after all. And Tolbert McCoy,

1330
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:49.319
who was son of Randolph McCoy, accused Elias bad Lias

1331
01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:52.840
was his nickname Hatfield. They should come up with something

1332
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:55.560
better than that of still owing him about a dollar

1333
01:12:55.680 --> 01:13:00.279
seventy five. That's right, a dollar seventy five for a

1334
01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:03.800
fiddle he sold years earlier. That's a good price for

1335
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:07.920
a fiddle. Words were exchanged. Tolbert's younger brother's, nineteen year

1336
01:13:07.960 --> 01:13:12.319
old farmer and fifteen year old Randolph Junior backed him up.

1337
01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:16.520
Local police officers and others briefly calmed the situation. Now

1338
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:20.680
Later in the day, Ellison Hatfield, brother of the powerful

1339
01:13:20.720 --> 01:13:25.520
West Virginia Clan leader Anderson Hatfield, awoke from a drunken

1340
01:13:25.640 --> 01:13:30.720
nap and joined the confrontation. Insults flew. According to accounts,

1341
01:13:30.760 --> 01:13:34.920
Tolbert declared himself hell on Earth. Ellison answered with a

1342
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:38.560
sharp retort, and a fistfight broke out. Tolbert drew a

1343
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:42.880
knife and repeatedly stabbed Ellison in the abdomen and stomach.

1344
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:47.319
The younger McCoy brothers piled on with their own blades

1345
01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:51.560
and Ellison, unarmed and bleeding, heavily grabbed a rock in

1346
01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:55.000
a desperate attempt to fight back. At that moment, Farmer

1347
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:58.079
McCoy pulled a pistol and shot Ellison in the back.

1348
01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:02.359
Ellison Hatfield collapsed with some two dozen stab wounds and

1349
01:14:02.439 --> 01:14:06.279
a gunshot injury. He was carried away mortally wounded, and

1350
01:14:06.319 --> 01:14:10.199
the three McCoy brothers were taken into custody by police

1351
01:14:10.399 --> 01:14:16.199
intending to transport them to the jail. Devil Hatfield that

1352
01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:21.319
was his name, Devil Ants Hatfield. He quickly organizes a posse.

1353
01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:24.960
The group intercepted the prisoners before they got to jail.

1354
01:14:25.319 --> 01:14:28.760
They took them from the constables and ferried them across

1355
01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:33.239
tug Fort into Western Virginia Territory. The brothers were held

1356
01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:38.279
under guard with a grim condition. Their lives depended on

1357
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:42.760
whether Ellison survived. Ellison Hatfield died of his wounds on

1358
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:47.399
August ninth. That night or that night, the Hatfield party

1359
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.319
brought Talbert, Farmer and Randolph back to the Kentucky side

1360
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:53.800
of the river, and the three young men were tied

1361
01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:58.439
to Paul Paul bushes near the river bank and executed

1362
01:14:58.479 --> 01:15:02.279
by gunfire. More than fift ty shots were fired, their

1363
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:05.920
bodies left were left where they fell. The killings of

1364
01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:09.279
the three McCoy brothers on the heels of Ellison's death

1365
01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:14.359
marked a decisive escalation. What had been a simmering conflict

1366
01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:20.840
over livestock land and a fiddle and personal insults transformed

1367
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:24.920
into open violence that would claim more lives in the

1368
01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:29.920
years ahead and draw national attention. Kentucky authorities later issued

1369
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:34.199
indictments on twenty hat Fields, including devil Ands, but the

1370
01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:38.479
accused largely remained beyond the reach of Kentucky law because

1371
01:15:38.520 --> 01:15:41.680
they were in West Virginia, and the events of August

1372
01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:44.880
seventh in the subsequent days of the eighth and ninth

1373
01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:48.159
of eighteen eighty two became one of the most notorious

1374
01:15:48.319 --> 01:15:53.439
chapters in the decades long Hatfield McCoy feud. The bloodshed

1375
01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:57.479
on BlackBerry Creek that election day remains an illustration of

1376
01:15:57.520 --> 01:16:02.000
how quickly a personal or could explode in the lasting,

1377
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:07.479
deadly family warfare in Appalachia. And all that occurred one

1378
01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:09.359
hundred and forty four years ago.

1379
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:14.479
Today, if I got shot fifty times over a fiddle,

1380
01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:16.279
I would be so mad.

1381
01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:21.199
Dude, they if they still feud to this day, there

1382
01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:25.800
are like tenth generation Hatfield and McCoys that still fight

1383
01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:29.159
each other at Kentucky. Can y'all believe Kelly's never heard

1384
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:31.840
of the hat Field of McCoy's. It's a freaking movie for.

1385
01:16:32.279 --> 01:16:34.079
Okay, when did it come out in the seventies?

1386
01:16:34.239 --> 01:16:37.920
No, like everybody's heard of the Hatfield McCoy's except Kelly.

1387
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:40.319
Okay, Well I didn't hear. Well, now you know, Well,

1388
01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:41.960
now I know, but I will tell you this. That

1389
01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:43.479
guy's name was Devil. Do you know I had a

1390
01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:46.119
name devil Ants? Do you know I had a neighbor

1391
01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:47.279
named Vicious?

1392
01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:49.479
That is a true story that has nothing to do

1393
01:16:49.720 --> 01:16:51.520
with the true crime time.

1394
01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:53.960
You're saying Vicious and Devil. I mean the names are

1395
01:16:54.439 --> 01:16:55.239
pretty hardcore.

1396
01:16:55.399 --> 01:16:58.359
All right, let me go to myr got for us her.

1397
01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:00.840
I'm gonna shoot you all straight on this one upon intended.

1398
01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:04.359
This thing has me has me pretty damn mad. Okay,

1399
01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:07.439
So we're gonna go to Louisville, Good Kentucky, the.

1400
01:17:07.439 --> 01:17:08.680
Same place where were just at.

1401
01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:12.560
Well, let's listen to this, guys and let this really simmer. Okay.

1402
01:17:12.680 --> 01:17:15.399
Ronald Xantis, the man that was found not guilty by

1403
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.119
reason of insanity in the twenty fifteen stabbing death of

1404
01:17:19.159 --> 01:17:21.439
a six year old boy. His name was Logan Tipton,

1405
01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:24.319
but he was convicted of assaulting the boy's family. He

1406
01:17:24.520 --> 01:17:27.720
was released from a Kentucky prison on July twenty ninth

1407
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:32.159
of twenty twenty six as a freeman with no supervision. Further,

1408
01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:36.520
he stabbed a six year old. This has irked me

1409
01:17:36.640 --> 01:17:40.279
since I first heard this case. Exantes, who's forty two,

1410
01:17:40.359 --> 01:17:42.600
completed his adjusted twenty.

1411
01:17:42.439 --> 01:17:44.800
Stab He just killed the six year old.

1412
01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:48.600
Well, killed the little boy. I thought he stabbed him.

1413
01:17:48.520 --> 01:17:51.000
That well he did, Yeah, but he killed him.

1414
01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:52.960
Yeah, I know. But my point is that it's a

1415
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:54.840
six year old, right, you know what I'm saying. This

1416
01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:57.279
is a baby, and this guy's walking free. I don't

1417
01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:01.239
know how his family is holding it to get so. Exantis,

1418
01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:03.920
who was forty two, completed his adjusted twenty year sentence

1419
01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:08.159
at the Kentucky State Reformatory in Oldham County. Kentucky Justice

1420
01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:12.680
and Public Safety Cabinet spokesperson Morgan Hall confirmed the release, stating, quote,

1421
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:16.399
pursuant to state law passed by Kentucky's General Assembly, Ronald

1422
01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:19.000
Lexantis has served the sentence that was issued by the

1423
01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:21.920
Woodford Circuit Court and has been released. He is no

1424
01:18:22.000 --> 01:18:24.600
longer in the custody of the Department of Corrections. The

1425
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:27.880
Kentucky Parole Board did not release Xantis, and he was

1426
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:30.680
not released early, obviously making the point that he served

1427
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:32.880
a sentence that's why he was let out. So in

1428
01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:37.319
December of twenty fifteen, Exantis drove from Indiana to Kentucky,

1429
01:18:37.760 --> 01:18:41.199
entered the unlocked Tipton family home, took a kitchen knife,

1430
01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:45.119
and then fatally stabbed Logan Tipton multiple times in the

1431
01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:49.359
head while that little boy was sleeping. He also stabbed

1432
01:18:49.399 --> 01:18:53.359
Logan's father, Dean Tipton, and two sisters during the attack.

1433
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:56.399
A Woodford Circuit County jury in twenty eighteen returned a

1434
01:18:56.439 --> 01:18:59.279
split verdict not guilty by reason of insanity on the

1435
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:03.239
murder and first degree burglary charges, but guilty for mentally

1436
01:19:03.319 --> 01:19:06.239
ill on two counts of second degree assault and one

1437
01:19:06.319 --> 01:19:09.439
count a fourth degree assault. He was sentenced to twenty

1438
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:13.520
years in prison for all of the assaults. So it's

1439
01:19:13.520 --> 01:19:17.680
important to note that the Parole Board Kentucky prole Board

1440
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:22.000
had repeatedly denied him discretionary parole, but he was first

1441
01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:25.600
released on October first of twenty five under Kentucky's mandatory

1442
01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:29.720
re entry supervision program because he accumulated good time credits,

1443
01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:34.000
educational credits, and the time that he served. Within days

1444
01:19:34.039 --> 01:19:37.520
of that release, he traveled to Marion County, Florida, and

1445
01:19:37.640 --> 01:19:40.840
on or about October the ninth, he was arrested for

1446
01:19:40.840 --> 01:19:43.640
failing to register as a convicted felon within the required

1447
01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:46.960
forty eight hours of arrival, a violation of his supervision

1448
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:50.600
conditions like this guy can't even follow the basic rules

1449
01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.079
to be let out early. He was returned to Kentucky,

1450
01:19:53.119 --> 01:19:55.880
where the prole board revoked his mandatory re entry supervision

1451
01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:57.640
in November of twenty five and ordered him to serve

1452
01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:00.319
out the remainder of his sentence. His final release on

1453
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:05.079
July twenty ninth carried no parole, no probation requirements whatsoever.

1454
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.000
Officials noted that sentence credits reduced the original maximum serve

1455
01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:12.640
out date of November twenty thirty five by nearly nine years.

1456
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:16.000
This case drew national attention and contributed to the passage

1457
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:20.800
of Logan's Law, which reformed aspects of the insanity defense,

1458
01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:24.279
split verdicts, and mandatory re entry supervision and sentencing for

1459
01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:28.560
certain violent Offenses. Attorney Kelly Kearney acknowledged the release and

1460
01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:31.279
the concerns it raised for the Tipton family in the community,

1461
01:20:31.479 --> 01:20:35.039
stating her office had taken every lawful action available. The

1462
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:38.560
Department of Corrections noted it lacks authority to hold someone

1463
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:43.199
beyond the expiration of a valid court imposed Senate. But

1464
01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:44.800
I got to say something real quick, Jim. I know

1465
01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:46.640
you're ready to pop off, but I have to say something.

1466
01:20:48.239 --> 01:20:50.680
If he was too crazy to be found guilty of

1467
01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:53.439
the murder, how to HELLI it too crazy to be released.

1468
01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:59.039
I don't understand that they released people that are found

1469
01:21:00.439 --> 01:21:05.079
not guilty by reason in saying the unfortunately, and he's released.

1470
01:21:05.520 --> 01:21:06.119
That's wrong.

1471
01:21:07.399 --> 01:21:09.800
I agree one hundred percent. What do you think should

1472
01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:10.239
have happened?

1473
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:14.199
I think that if he was too crazy, okay for

1474
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:17.800
the conviction of the murder, then you take his ass

1475
01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:20.279
and you put him in a mental hospital. You already

1476
01:21:20.319 --> 01:21:22.000
gave him one chance. He broke that.

1477
01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:26.199
I mean, I'm asking. I'm not saying that. Disagree.

1478
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:29.640
I mean, it's kind of a short, short sighted way

1479
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:31.359
of me saying it. But ultimately, yes, I think that

1480
01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:33.880
he's a very dangerous person. He went and killed a

1481
01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:35.880
complete stranger and tried to kill the rest of the family.

1482
01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:38.039
Yeah, he could have had for Andy.

1483
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:40.199
Youah, I'm not saying he's not crazy. I do think

1484
01:21:40.239 --> 01:21:42.920
there's something very wrong with him. So to that point,

1485
01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:46.359
what the hell are you talking about mandatory re entry?

1486
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:49.520
There is there should be no mandatory so we're giving

1487
01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:51.840
him all of the benefits, and I understand that that's

1488
01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:53.840
what happened. I'm not blaming the Department of Corrections and

1489
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.560
I'm not blaming law enforcement or anything, but there is

1490
01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:59.000
a problem here, and I think that Logan's law I'd

1491
01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:01.199
like to I'm gonna go actually read up on that one,

1492
01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:04.640
because this is this is not right. He already broke

1493
01:22:04.720 --> 01:22:07.840
parole within twenty four what was it, twenty four hours

1494
01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.159
forty eight hours of the first time that he was released,

1495
01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:12.359
But then you're still going to give him the nine

1496
01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:15.199
year shortened sentence on credits. That should not have been

1497
01:22:15.239 --> 01:22:20.399
an opportunity. He broke the conditions, right, why the hell

1498
01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:24.520
were you still allowing him nine years? That little boy's

1499
01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:26.560
still dead, believe it or not. He never got to

1500
01:22:26.600 --> 01:22:29.159
live his life. The family was destroyed, and then this

1501
01:22:29.199 --> 01:22:31.079
fucker gets to go walk around freed and it makes

1502
01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:34.000
me angry. That's miscarriage of justice if I ever saw it.

1503
01:22:34.039 --> 01:22:35.079
That's it all right.

1504
01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:38.960
Let I agree. Let's go to Santa Fe, New Mexico,

1505
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:42.680
and the New Mexico Supreme Court is ruled that body

1506
01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:47.880
camera footage of Alexi Treviso can not be used as

1507
01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:51.239
evidence in prosecuting her for the death of a newborn

1508
01:22:51.319 --> 01:22:56.359
child of her of her newborn child, saying physician patient

1509
01:22:56.520 --> 01:23:02.279
privilege remained even though police in Trevine's mother were in

1510
01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:05.399
the room when the doctor asked Treviso if the newborn

1511
01:23:05.439 --> 01:23:08.359
baby who was found dead about the newborn baby who

1512
01:23:08.439 --> 01:23:11.800
was found dead in a trash can. Prosecutors argued that

1513
01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:16.439
physician patient privilege was waived because police and the mother

1514
01:23:17.079 --> 01:23:20.279
her mother were in the room when the doctor told

1515
01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:25.079
Treviso about the dead newborn quote. The state's argument urges

1516
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:28.880
us to adopt a per se law that whenevery third

1517
01:23:28.920 --> 01:23:33.159
person is present who is not necessary for care, that

1518
01:23:33.319 --> 01:23:36.840
while the patient communicates with the doctor, you essentially are

1519
01:23:36.880 --> 01:23:41.760
waiving your confidentiality, regardless of that person is of the circumstances.

1520
01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:46.680
We reject the argument is inconsistent with state law case law.

1521
01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:51.920
Rather in the policy interest underlying the physician patient privilege.

1522
01:23:52.279 --> 01:23:57.239
Now staff had started running tests on Treviso and giving

1523
01:23:57.279 --> 01:24:00.640
her morphine for her pain when she allegedly left the

1524
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:04.520
hospital room to use the restroom. When she returned, she

1525
01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:07.319
got back into bed, and a member of the staft's

1526
01:24:07.399 --> 01:24:10.039
cleaning crew went to clean the bathroom and noticed a

1527
01:24:10.159 --> 01:24:13.600
trash bag felt heavy. When she looked inside, she finds

1528
01:24:13.640 --> 01:24:17.159
the body of a newborn baby that ended up being

1529
01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:21.279
Treviso's baby. Police arrived after the hospital called them and

1530
01:24:21.319 --> 01:24:24.079
said we may have a crime here. Trevisa was in

1531
01:24:24.119 --> 01:24:27.079
the middle of receiving medical treatment when police walked into

1532
01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:30.479
the hospital room wearing body cameras. A doctor is seen

1533
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:34.359
on body camera video telling Treviso they discovered a dead

1534
01:24:34.439 --> 01:24:37.840
baby in the bathroom. She said, quote, I'm sorry. It

1535
01:24:37.880 --> 01:24:39.680
came out of me. I didn't know what to do.

1536
01:24:40.159 --> 01:24:43.600
Trevisa's mother asked how big the baby is. When a

1537
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.600
nurse informs her the baby appeared to be full term,

1538
01:24:47.079 --> 01:24:53.399
Treviso allegedly said, quote, nothing was crying. Treviso allegedly confirmed

1539
01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:55.479
to her mother that she put the newborn in the

1540
01:24:55.560 --> 01:24:59.000
trash bag. She has maintained that the baby was still

1541
01:24:59.079 --> 01:25:02.520
born and laid explained she held the baby and there

1542
01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:05.800
was no movement, no breathing, nothing. She was released from

1543
01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:08.319
the hospital after getting treatment and allowed to go home

1544
01:25:08.760 --> 01:25:12.039
and continue going to school, but she was arrested on

1545
01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:14.479
May tenth of twenty twenty three in charge of first

1546
01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:18.079
degree murder after the autopsy report came back showing the

1547
01:25:18.119 --> 01:25:21.079
newborn had air in his lungs and evidence of a

1548
01:25:21.159 --> 01:25:26.760
hemorrhage consistent with hypoxia. Treviso's charges were filed based on

1549
01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:30.319
a conversation in the bodycam video, as well as hospital

1550
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:33.560
security camera video that showed her walking in and out

1551
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:36.479
of the bathroom where the newborn was discovered, and the

1552
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:41.279
bodycam video and security camera video now cannot be used

1553
01:25:41.399 --> 01:25:42.119
as evidence.

1554
01:25:42.600 --> 01:25:44.840
Yeah, I wasn't I read the ruling on this too,

1555
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:48.319
because I was kind of confuzzled by it. But I

1556
01:25:48.479 --> 01:25:52.119
now understand how the you know, how they came to

1557
01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:58.720
this ruling. So you know, you don't forfeit your privilege,

1558
01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:03.119
you know, your doc her patient privilege just because some

1559
01:26:03.159 --> 01:26:05.680
people come into the room. And part of the argument here,

1560
01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:09.359
well law right, it's hippa. But part of the problem

1561
01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:14.319
here too is that the doctor invited the officers to

1562
01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:16.319
come into the room. The doctor was like, come here,

1563
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:19.560
and then turned around and basically the doctor started kind

1564
01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:22.479
of interrogating her from what I understand, from what I

1565
01:26:22.479 --> 01:26:25.399
have seen and understand, and the doctor basically was like,

1566
01:26:25.439 --> 01:26:27.439
we found a dead baby in the you know, like

1567
01:26:27.520 --> 01:26:29.239
she kind of believed that that might have been what

1568
01:26:29.359 --> 01:26:34.199
just happened. So the issue here becomes the girl. The

1569
01:26:34.199 --> 01:26:37.279
little girl, the mom of the baby didn't get the

1570
01:26:37.359 --> 01:26:40.680
opportunity to decline because the doctor told the cops to

1571
01:26:40.720 --> 01:26:43.439
come in. The cops came in, and then she was

1572
01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:46.039
asked a question, and then she was also under the

1573
01:26:46.039 --> 01:26:48.600
effects of narcotics because they had been given her that

1574
01:26:49.319 --> 01:26:51.680
a grave level of pain for having just given birth

1575
01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:54.079
and these other things, and so you know, you don't

1576
01:26:54.119 --> 01:27:00.520
get blanket, you know, the doctor. I feel like the

1577
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:04.039
doctor made the mistake here, but the cops didn't realize

1578
01:27:04.079 --> 01:27:07.079
what was going to be uttered like a spontaneous utterance

1579
01:27:07.119 --> 01:27:09.960
type thing. But because of the way that it worked out,

1580
01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:14.079
what should have happened was the doctor should have been

1581
01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:16.279
a mandatory reporter. That's the argument here that people are

1582
01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:18.199
raising that, well, wait a minute, how can you say

1583
01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:19.920
none of this can be evidence can be used because

1584
01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:21.760
you know, a doctor is a mandatory reporter if that

1585
01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:26.560
baby was in the trash can and then right, But

1586
01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:29.880
they didn't do it right because the doctor the police.

1587
01:27:30.039 --> 01:27:33.800
I know, but this is the problem. The doctor called

1588
01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:37.960
the police. The police then should have started their own investigation.

1589
01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:41.399
But because the doctor was in the room told them

1590
01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:44.399
to come in, they walked in, and then the doctor

1591
01:27:44.439 --> 01:27:49.119
starts questioning the little girl before she's even been mirandized

1592
01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:52.880
or she's been anything. Then the prosecution is trying to say,

1593
01:27:52.880 --> 01:27:55.880
well that that's patient privilege is out is out the

1594
01:27:55.880 --> 01:27:58.199
way because you know, of all the people that were

1595
01:27:58.199 --> 01:28:00.560
already in there. But the doctors, the one who told

1596
01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:03.119
them come here, I think that she killed this baby.

1597
01:28:03.159 --> 01:28:03.960
They never they knew.

1598
01:28:04.119 --> 01:28:06.920
But the police are the ones that the honest is on.

1599
01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:09.800
They should have stopped right there and said, before you

1600
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:12.640
say anything, you have the right to remain silent. A

1601
01:28:12.680 --> 01:28:15.359
good police officer is not going to let you just

1602
01:28:15.479 --> 01:28:19.159
start talking because they know anything you say before you

1603
01:28:19.319 --> 01:28:22.920
read your miranda rights is inadmissible in court because you

1604
01:28:22.960 --> 01:28:24.279
can say I didn't know I had a right to

1605
01:28:24.319 --> 01:28:26.720
remain silent. Yeah, all of that, So all of that

1606
01:28:26.760 --> 01:28:27.600
should have occurred.

1607
01:28:27.720 --> 01:28:29.560
But I don't blame the cops because this is how

1608
01:28:29.560 --> 01:28:34.119
it went though. The doctor tells cops, this is the girl.

1609
01:28:34.359 --> 01:28:38.000
Come see. The cops walk in. But then the doctor

1610
01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:40.760
and before the cops even gets.

1611
01:28:41.159 --> 01:28:44.920
Well, the doctor starts asking questions, but before she responds

1612
01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:48.880
that that police officer has the opportunity to say, wait

1613
01:28:49.079 --> 01:28:50.359
before you say anything else.

1614
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:53.119
She didn't ask a question though. The doctor just was like,

1615
01:28:53.319 --> 01:28:56.079
there's a dead baby they found in the trash can.

1616
01:28:56.159 --> 01:28:58.720
She made a statement, and that's when the little girl

1617
01:28:58.800 --> 01:29:01.640
goes it just fell out of me. It wasn't crying,

1618
01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:02.720
and the cops are.

1619
01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:05.039
Like, oh, okay, well they can't stop her and say

1620
01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:06.439
wait before you say anything.

1621
01:29:06.479 --> 01:29:06.840
They can't.

1622
01:29:06.880 --> 01:29:09.359
You have the right now say that again.

1623
01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:11.640
They can. But if you look at the if you

1624
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:14.039
look at the timeline of how it went down, they

1625
01:29:14.039 --> 01:29:17.079
didn't arrest her right then. They then started doing their

1626
01:29:17.119 --> 01:29:20.319
investigation as like it was supposed to go. Then whenever

1627
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:24.319
they went and made the arrest, it was done later

1628
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:27.279
on because they used yeah, because they used the video

1629
01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:30.920
and they used the body cam and they used everything,

1630
01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:35.159
so it looked like it was sign steel delivered. But

1631
01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:39.439
because of the patient privileged thing, that's where she's gonna

1632
01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:42.479
get get the upper hand, and I got to tell something.

1633
01:29:42.520 --> 01:29:44.920
I actually it just makes the video. It makes the

1634
01:29:44.920 --> 01:29:48.800
bodycam inimissible. It doesn't make the case in amissible. Like

1635
01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:52.880
they can still use statements and all the sense. They

1636
01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:58.279
just can't show her bodycam, you know, footage of that incident.

1637
01:29:58.359 --> 01:30:00.119
Well, but they also said you can't use the they

1638
01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:03.279
can't use the hospital footage. It knowed that. But they're

1639
01:30:03.279 --> 01:30:05.159
still going to have the witnesses, the people that found

1640
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:05.880
the baby in all that.

1641
01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:10.960
That's a big yeah, especially the hospital video.

1642
01:30:11.039 --> 01:30:12.960
Yeah, but what if there was in and out of

1643
01:30:13.199 --> 01:30:15.039
if there were no other pregnant people on the floor

1644
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:17.600
at that time, Like you can use deductive reasoning here

1645
01:30:17.640 --> 01:30:21.600
a reasonable human being, you know. But I think what

1646
01:30:21.680 --> 01:30:23.560
her defense is. I really do think that they're going

1647
01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:26.920
to do this. I would is I would say that

1648
01:30:27.159 --> 01:30:32.600
she's how old seventeen right, something like that, that you know,

1649
01:30:34.159 --> 01:30:37.239
someone she got scared and she someone of I don't

1650
01:30:37.239 --> 01:30:39.199
think the first degree murder is going to be the

1651
01:30:39.239 --> 01:30:41.039
charge that's going to stick, because they're going to say

1652
01:30:41.199 --> 01:30:44.880
anyone with her same level of experience and or you know,

1653
01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:47.680
mindset and all that may have made that poor decision

1654
01:30:47.720 --> 01:30:49.800
as well, and I just don't think that's going to

1655
01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:52.680
meet the muster of a first degree murder because she

1656
01:30:52.760 --> 01:30:54.800
didn't have the baby till she was in the hospital.

1657
01:30:55.039 --> 01:30:56.319
I don't know why they didn't charge it with second

1658
01:30:56.359 --> 01:30:57.159
degree is when I'm getting that.

1659
01:30:57.399 --> 01:31:00.800
But if she if the baby had air and their lungs, yeah,

1660
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:01.840
but then killed them.

1661
01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:04.600
Yeah, But I don't think killed him. Well, we don't.

1662
01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:05.880
He was a boy, We don't.

1663
01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:08.199
But what I'm saying is her experience as a new

1664
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:10.359
mother that just grabbed that she might have thought the

1665
01:31:10.359 --> 01:31:12.600
baby wasn't breathing or you know, they can argue that

1666
01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:14.560
that she thought the baby was not breathing. They could

1667
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:17.119
argue that like that's why she panicked and didn't know what.

1668
01:31:17.079 --> 01:31:21.840
To do, okay, and playing devil's advocate there. If I'm

1669
01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:24.039
a doctor on the other side of that, I can say, well,

1670
01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:27.000
the baby was breathing and had air in its lungs.

1671
01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:29.199
You can tell one a baby's breathing.

1672
01:31:29.640 --> 01:31:31.720
A seventeen year old. If that baby was struggling to

1673
01:31:31.760 --> 01:31:34.359
breathe and wasn't doing well and she just gave birth,

1674
01:31:34.399 --> 01:31:34.800
I think.

1675
01:31:34.640 --> 01:31:38.199
In them the baby was struggling to breathe. Nobody else

1676
01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:41.119
is saying that nobody knows. Well, they're showing it. The

1677
01:31:42.039 --> 01:31:46.520
autopsy is determining all of that was operating ads expected. Yeah,

1678
01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:49.399
but when you come out, do you not cry?

1679
01:31:49.840 --> 01:31:50.720
Not all babies know?

1680
01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:52.960
Oh okay, no.

1681
01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:54.199
Well that's three.

1682
01:31:54.279 --> 01:31:57.079
Okay, the three I sat in the delivery room for.

1683
01:31:57.239 --> 01:31:58.319
We're crying like hell.

1684
01:31:58.520 --> 01:32:00.399
They took mine over there and we're having a beat

1685
01:32:00.439 --> 01:32:01.079
her among the back.

1686
01:32:01.760 --> 01:32:03.960
Of course, she got a clear lungs okay.

1687
01:32:04.119 --> 01:32:06.479
And so that's what I'm saying. Her level of experience

1688
01:32:06.520 --> 01:32:08.920
is zero, and she's seventeen. She has this baby. Now,

1689
01:32:08.960 --> 01:32:09.760
I'm not saying it's right.

1690
01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:15.119
I'm just saying the defense, we're showing both sides, right.

1691
01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:17.000
I think that the defense may could have a better

1692
01:32:17.119 --> 01:32:19.479
argument there to say that she just didn't have any experience,

1693
01:32:19.520 --> 01:32:21.640
and she thought the baby was dead and she panicked.

1694
01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:22.680
That's why she put.

1695
01:32:22.680 --> 01:32:23.760
Have you followed this case.

1696
01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:28.439
I've read the the appeals and things in it, the

1697
01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:32.000
Supreme Court rulings, not to a t, but enough, okay,

1698
01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:33.319
I have I mean, I.

1699
01:32:33.640 --> 01:32:36.359
Knew about it when it first uh when it first

1700
01:32:36.920 --> 01:32:40.600
came out, I reported on and on another podcast, But uh,

1701
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:43.239
I didn't do a big deed dive into it. I

1702
01:32:43.279 --> 01:32:46.239
had a TikToker I used to produce that actually did

1703
01:32:46.239 --> 01:32:51.239
a whole episode on it. Uh, and she was in

1704
01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:54.359
belief that this girl's piece of shit and killed her baby.

1705
01:32:55.680 --> 01:32:57.479
I don't know. I don't know enough about the case,

1706
01:32:57.479 --> 01:32:58.920
but I'm gonna dig into it. I'm curious.

1707
01:32:59.000 --> 01:33:01.239
Yeah, that one's in because I'm just going to tell

1708
01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:04.000
you all three personal experience matters, and that's why jury's

1709
01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:06.239
have so many people on them. But of all three

1710
01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:08.199
children that I gave birth to, you, not one came

1711
01:33:08.199 --> 01:33:08.720
out crying.

1712
01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:11.039
Well, let me ask you this, and I'm about to

1713
01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:13.840
change your home mind right here. Let me ask you this.

1714
01:33:15.680 --> 01:33:17.359
If you had a baby in a bathroom and you

1715
01:33:17.399 --> 01:33:19.319
were in a hospital, why would you throw the baby

1716
01:33:19.319 --> 01:33:20.279
in the trash?

1717
01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:20.920
I wouldn't.

1718
01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:25.520
Why would anybody? Why would an innocent person that did

1719
01:33:25.640 --> 01:33:28.960
nothing wrong not run out of that bathroom with the

1720
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:32.079
baby panicking and saying, oh my gosh, I just had

1721
01:33:32.119 --> 01:33:36.479
this baby and he's not breathing in help. You're in

1722
01:33:36.520 --> 01:33:39.039
a pre natal hospital.

1723
01:33:39.159 --> 01:33:40.800
Yeah, do you know why she was at the hospital.

1724
01:33:41.640 --> 01:33:43.560
Why it wasn't for pregnancy.

1725
01:33:44.159 --> 01:33:46.880
I understand that, but you had a baby in the hospital.

1726
01:33:47.119 --> 01:33:50.399
I know, but I'm just we're playing Devil's advocating. Okay,

1727
01:33:50.439 --> 01:33:51.720
So I don't agree that you should throw your baby.

1728
01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:53.000
I want to be clear about that. You shouldn't put

1729
01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:53.319
you on I'm not.

1730
01:33:53.439 --> 01:33:56.439
I'm not saying you do. But let me finish. She

1731
01:33:56.640 --> 01:34:01.359
had the baby in the bathroom, and she made a

1732
01:34:01.479 --> 01:34:05.920
decision to throw the baby in the trash and put

1733
01:34:06.000 --> 01:34:08.560
stuff on top of it to hide the fact that

1734
01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:12.560
she had the baby. An innocent person doesn't do that, right,

1735
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:18.720
I'm asking, I'm an innocent person that did nothing wrong.

1736
01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:23.159
Well, I don't know about that, So I'm I'm thinking though,

1737
01:34:23.159 --> 01:34:25.319
in the mind of a seventeen year old girl, that's

1738
01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:27.880
where I'm at. I'm not thinking at this as a

1739
01:34:28.159 --> 01:34:30.760
forty year old woman with lots of life experience behind me,

1740
01:34:31.239 --> 01:34:34.399
and there's a lot of unknowns here. I don't even

1741
01:34:34.439 --> 01:34:36.319
know if she knew she was pregnant because she went

1742
01:34:36.319 --> 01:34:39.520
to the hospital with severe back pain. Well, back pain

1743
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:42.520
is an obvious sign of labor. Her mother was with her.

1744
01:34:43.279 --> 01:34:47.000
Her mother was with her, so whenever they go and

1745
01:34:47.039 --> 01:34:48.960
she has the baby, the mom's own statement of how

1746
01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:51.600
big was the baby. Mamas lends me to believe that

1747
01:34:51.640 --> 01:34:54.840
the mom didn't know that she was having it, Like,

1748
01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:57.159
is it a newborn? Is a is it a a?

1749
01:34:57.399 --> 01:34:59.359
You know? Did she have a miscarriage? But how big

1750
01:34:59.439 --> 01:35:00.880
is the baby? Why would my mask that?

1751
01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:05.760
Okay, So because maybe the mom didn't know, And I

1752
01:35:05.840 --> 01:35:10.000
truly believe she knew because I do remember seeing pictures

1753
01:35:10.039 --> 01:35:14.439
of her in high school and you could see she

1754
01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:19.520
was pregnant. She started wearing giant sweaters, and I think

1755
01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:22.359
she knew. I mean, only she knows if she really knew,

1756
01:35:22.359 --> 01:35:25.960
But I believe that if you're pregnant and you're that

1757
01:35:26.079 --> 01:35:27.680
far along, you know it.

1758
01:35:27.880 --> 01:35:28.560
Yeah she knew.

1759
01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:30.680
Okay.

1760
01:35:30.159 --> 01:35:33.479
So again I'm just playing Devil's advocate here that there

1761
01:35:33.520 --> 01:35:35.720
are people that go and have babies. I know a

1762
01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:38.159
girl that went to the hospital because she had such

1763
01:35:38.279 --> 01:35:40.279
heartburn she couldn't get over it, and she had a

1764
01:35:40.359 --> 01:35:43.279
baby because her baby was one that.

1765
01:35:43.319 --> 01:35:47.359
Nobody's debating that that's possible. What I'm saying is an

1766
01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:51.199
innocent person doesn't have the baby and then throw it

1767
01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:53.720
in the trash and pile things on top of it, right,

1768
01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:55.039
So why would you do that?

1769
01:35:55.279 --> 01:35:57.960
So That's what I'm getting at. So a seventeen year old.

1770
01:35:58.199 --> 01:35:59.880
It'll be interesting to see what they argue in that.

1771
01:36:00.199 --> 01:36:02.479
We got to keep up with this one. A seventeen

1772
01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:04.840
year old goes in the bathroom, has a baby. Whether

1773
01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:06.800
she knew she was pregnant or not, Okay, she has

1774
01:36:06.840 --> 01:36:13.159
that baby. Her experience in that moment is zero because

1775
01:36:13.199 --> 01:36:15.439
she doesn't hasn't had a baby before. And so she's

1776
01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:18.119
and the baby's not crying, and she's looking at it,

1777
01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:20.560
and she's like, why isn't the baby crying? And she

1778
01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:24.600
she could have paniced, She really could have panicked. And

1779
01:36:24.640 --> 01:36:26.680
so she's like, oh god, it's gonna look like I

1780
01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:28.840
did something, you know. Oh my god. I don't get it.

1781
01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:30.840
And I'm not saying it's right, but the defense could

1782
01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:31.319
raise that.

1783
01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:34.840
I don't I understand. I just my opinion is I

1784
01:36:34.840 --> 01:36:36.079
don't think that's what happened.

1785
01:36:36.159 --> 01:36:39.640
But she was pregnant, then why would she do it?

1786
01:36:39.680 --> 01:36:42.720
Anyway, I'm not saying the mom knew. I'm not saying

1787
01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:44.239
the mom knew. I don't know if the mom knew

1788
01:36:44.319 --> 01:36:49.039
or not. I'm saying she clearly knew. Yeah, I don't

1789
01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:53.840
debate what you're saying about her panicking. But just because

1790
01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:55.960
you panic you're still guilty of murder.

1791
01:36:56.399 --> 01:36:59.239
But if she if she truly believed that baby wasn't

1792
01:36:59.279 --> 01:37:03.079
breathing and her mother didn't know she was pregnant, in

1793
01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:06.159
a seventeen year old mind, she might go, crap, it's dead.

1794
01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:08.199
What I don't know what to do and then puts

1795
01:37:08.199 --> 01:37:10.239
it in the trash can because her mother doesn't know

1796
01:37:10.279 --> 01:37:12.640
she's pregnant and the baby is dead, and she's she's

1797
01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:15.079
doing an immature thing to try to solve her problem.

1798
01:37:15.239 --> 01:37:18.399
That's where you're that's where you're losing me completely. Though

1799
01:37:18.479 --> 01:37:22.000
you're saying a seventeen year old mind. Seventeen year olds

1800
01:37:22.039 --> 01:37:24.640
know the difference between writing and wrong. Seventeen year olds

1801
01:37:24.800 --> 01:37:27.520
know they shouldn't throw a baby in the trash Here,

1802
01:37:27.880 --> 01:37:32.239
you're to me, you're acting like she was eleven. No,

1803
01:37:32.359 --> 01:37:35.119
I'm acting like she her damn near an adult.

1804
01:37:35.319 --> 01:37:37.640
I'm acting like she may fear her mother's reaction if

1805
01:37:37.640 --> 01:37:41.119
she has that baby. Sure, and okay, so if she's

1806
01:37:41.159 --> 01:37:43.159
a friend, these are all if y'all, we don't know

1807
01:37:43.199 --> 01:37:45.039
if her mother, we don't know anything. This is again

1808
01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:47.800
speculation and we're just talking it out. But what I'm

1809
01:37:47.880 --> 01:37:50.800
saying is I you know talk seventeen year olds very

1810
01:37:50.840 --> 01:37:52.640
long time, and I'm telling you, this stuff that comes

1811
01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:54.720
out of their mouth is wild. Sometimes you're like, I

1812
01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:56.600
have girls that didn't even know that they don't pee

1813
01:37:56.640 --> 01:37:58.199
out of the same hole that they give birth to.

1814
01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:02.399
And one of those girls was pregnant seventeen years old. Yeah,

1815
01:38:02.439 --> 01:38:05.439
I'm telling you. So if she did not know, if

1816
01:38:05.840 --> 01:38:07.680
on the if these are a lot of ifs. But

1817
01:38:07.720 --> 01:38:10.399
if her mother didn't know she was pregnant, and because

1818
01:38:10.399 --> 01:38:12.439
if they were at the hospital and she's there for

1819
01:38:12.560 --> 01:38:15.520
back pain, wouldn't her mother tell the hospital she's pregnant?

1820
01:38:15.520 --> 01:38:20.359
But Kelly, nobody again is debating whether or not her

1821
01:38:20.399 --> 01:38:24.560
mom knew is to me absolutely irrelevant whether or not

1822
01:38:24.680 --> 01:38:26.920
she was scared of her mom. What we want to

1823
01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.359
know here is did she kill that baby?

1824
01:38:29.680 --> 01:38:29.880
Right?

1825
01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:33.039
I believe she did. That's okay, And I believe she

1826
01:38:33.159 --> 01:38:36.159
did because when she had that baby, she didn't bring

1827
01:38:36.199 --> 01:38:39.119
the baby out of the bathroom and say I just

1828
01:38:39.159 --> 01:38:42.479
had a baby. Scared or not, you still killed the baby.

1829
01:38:42.760 --> 01:38:45.039
But if she and this is the argument I'm making,

1830
01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:48.279
if she truly believed in her same level of experience,

1831
01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:51.159
she doesn't have experience having babies and.

1832
01:38:51.119 --> 01:38:52.600
If she nobody was till they do.

1833
01:38:52.880 --> 01:38:55.840
Okay, But if she thought that that baby wasn't breathing,

1834
01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:57.680
I'm not saying it was the right choice. It was

1835
01:38:57.760 --> 01:39:00.319
not the right choice. Clearly it wasn't right. But if

1836
01:39:00.319 --> 01:39:02.119
she was holding this baby that she just had in

1837
01:39:02.159 --> 01:39:05.800
the bathroom and she thought it wasn't breathing, so in

1838
01:39:05.800 --> 01:39:08.920
her mind, oh my gosh, he's dead. She also said it.

1839
01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:10.439
So I don't even if she looked at the genitalia,

1840
01:39:10.479 --> 01:39:12.760
because she didn't ever say he it's a little boy.

1841
01:39:13.159 --> 01:39:15.479
But if she and she thinks he is dead, oh

1842
01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:18.239
my god, and her mother didn't know she was pregnant,

1843
01:39:18.279 --> 01:39:20.359
in her mind, she might say, well, he's dead. I mean,

1844
01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:22.920
I can't bring him back. Let me just do this

1845
01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:24.760
and then I'll just try to wash my hands of it.

1846
01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:28.119
There's a nuts Okay, Well, there's a cheerleader that hid

1847
01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:30.319
her pregnancy and was doing cheerleader stunts and then put

1848
01:39:30.359 --> 01:39:33.039
to the air. No, put the baby in a shoe

1849
01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:34.560
box in her closet.

1850
01:39:35.600 --> 01:39:37.800
It's not different also a cheerleader.

1851
01:39:37.880 --> 01:39:39.960
Yeah, but it's not unheard of that people do. Girls

1852
01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:42.359
to have done weird things because they didn't want people

1853
01:39:42.399 --> 01:39:43.960
to know that they were pregnant. I'm not saying it's

1854
01:39:43.960 --> 01:39:45.720
the right thing to do, but if you want to

1855
01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:49.960
raise reasonable doubt, you could argue based off of her

1856
01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:52.399
own statements, which that it can't be used. Now, By

1857
01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:55.920
the way, when she said it wasn't breathing.

1858
01:39:55.720 --> 01:39:58.399
I don't think you need to I don't think you

1859
01:39:58.439 --> 01:40:01.279
need to use this statement. I think a good prosecutor

1860
01:40:01.359 --> 01:40:03.199
is going to get in there and say, when you

1861
01:40:03.239 --> 01:40:07.399
have the baby, why did you not go out and

1862
01:40:07.439 --> 01:40:10.600
say something's wrong with this baby? Right? Why did you

1863
01:40:10.640 --> 01:40:12.560
throw it in the trash and then try to hide it?

1864
01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:15.439
She tried to hide it. She then went back in

1865
01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:19.000
the bathroom and cleaned up all the blood. She tried

1866
01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:19.439
to hide it.

1867
01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:22.000
She did the wrong thing, But why did she try

1868
01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:24.000
to hide it? Is the question I'm asking, is all

1869
01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:26.439
I'm asking. I think that the defense is going to

1870
01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:27.119
bring that up, and.

1871
01:40:27.520 --> 01:40:29.640
Well, I think, you know, I think her mom didn't

1872
01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:31.960
know and she didn't want her mom to know. Yeah, so,

1873
01:40:32.560 --> 01:40:34.760
but that still doesn't make her not guilty of murder.

1874
01:40:35.560 --> 01:40:38.399
If she thought the baby wasn't breathing.

1875
01:40:38.680 --> 01:40:42.920
Come on, Kelly, you really believe that, Yeah?

1876
01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:45.880
Under morphine on morphine she said it I understand.

1877
01:40:46.199 --> 01:40:48.199
I want to know what y'all think about this one,

1878
01:40:48.439 --> 01:40:51.840
so comment, because of course we post all these on

1879
01:40:51.880 --> 01:40:54.319
the Facebook page. Comment and let me know what you

1880
01:40:54.359 --> 01:40:57.760
think on this one. Because I think she clearly knew

1881
01:40:57.840 --> 01:41:01.760
that baby was breathing. I just don't leave that. That's

1882
01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:03.680
just my personal being. Kelly could be right.

1883
01:41:03.720 --> 01:41:05.640
We don't have enough evidence either way right now.

1884
01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:06.199
So I don't know.

1885
01:41:06.359 --> 01:41:09.520
But I use common sense sometimes, and my common sense

1886
01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:13.439
tells me that maybe I'm wrong. I'm not saying them right.

1887
01:41:13.760 --> 01:41:15.079
Maybe I've been around.

1888
01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:16.319
We'll see how many people think that.

1889
01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:19.520
Maybe I've been around too many seventeen year old girls

1890
01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:20.279
for a long time.

1891
01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:22.640
It could be too I don't but I've been around

1892
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:24.960
two of them, and they knew, They sure as how

1893
01:41:25.039 --> 01:41:28.800
knew right from wrong, and they sure knew when a

1894
01:41:28.840 --> 01:41:31.479
baby was breathing or not. They could certainly tell that.

1895
01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:34.840
So that's just my seventeen year olds. I don't know.

1896
01:41:34.960 --> 01:41:37.039
Maybe there's some idiots out there, but.

1897
01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:40.840
I don't know. I don't. I mean, you can take

1898
01:41:40.840 --> 01:41:43.439
a breath and it still be agonal breathing, so that

1899
01:41:44.319 --> 01:41:47.479
breathing doesn't always mean effective, clear chest up, chest down breathing.

1900
01:41:47.760 --> 01:41:51.319
Because in the hypoxia, I know, but in the hypoxia,

1901
01:41:51.359 --> 01:41:53.560
I just think they will have an argument she shouldn't

1902
01:41:53.560 --> 01:41:55.079
have done it. I totally agree she's going to be

1903
01:41:55.079 --> 01:41:57.079
guilty of something, but I don't know that the first

1904
01:41:57.119 --> 01:41:59.800
degree murder charge. I think they should have gone on

1905
01:41:59.800 --> 01:42:02.000
a lot, were charged to seal that fate, is what

1906
01:42:02.039 --> 01:42:03.840
I'm trying to say. I think they overcharged.

1907
01:42:03.880 --> 01:42:07.600
Oh yeah, well yeah, they would have had a better chance.

1908
01:42:07.960 --> 01:42:10.399
But maybe whoever it is that prosecutor says I can

1909
01:42:10.479 --> 01:42:10.920
prove this.

1910
01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:12.920
They're gonna get a plea deal, They're gonna.

1911
01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:15.239
Hear this case. And here my point I just brought

1912
01:42:15.319 --> 01:42:17.840
up and say, that's a dang good point. We're running

1913
01:42:17.880 --> 01:42:18.079
with it.

1914
01:42:18.119 --> 01:42:20.159
Well, I think what you said is captain obvious that

1915
01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.159
the that that it's not right to put the baby

1916
01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:23.840
in the trash can.

1917
01:42:23.920 --> 01:42:26.359
I think that's but the action of putting the baby

1918
01:42:26.399 --> 01:42:29.119
in the trash can speaks to guilt, speaks to know

1919
01:42:29.159 --> 01:42:31.039
when you're guilty. You don't try to hide a crime

1920
01:42:31.079 --> 01:42:34.840
you didn't know you committed, Kelly, But she did try

1921
01:42:34.880 --> 01:42:36.680
to hide a crime you know you committed.

1922
01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:39.159
But her argument is that the baby she thought was

1923
01:42:39.239 --> 01:42:44.920
already dead. That's her argument, that's what she said, Well,

1924
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:45.840
I mean, that's.

1925
01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:49.520
A just an insane argument to me, because it's still

1926
01:42:49.520 --> 01:42:53.479
a crime. Even if she thought that, it's still a crime.

1927
01:42:53.680 --> 01:42:55.920
But if you thought the baby was already dead, why

1928
01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:57.760
didn't you bring it out and say the baby's dead?

1929
01:42:57.920 --> 01:43:02.199
Because she didn't justify throwing it in the trashcause.

1930
01:43:01.600 --> 01:43:03.720
She didn't want her mother because she thought the baby

1931
01:43:03.760 --> 01:43:04.479
was already.

1932
01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:08.760
I think if that baby was screaming, crying, okay out loud,

1933
01:43:08.800 --> 01:43:11.840
screaming and crying, that she would have been more inclined

1934
01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:13.760
to walk out with that baby. If the baby was

1935
01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:17.159
not screaming and crying and was newborn, breathing but not

1936
01:43:17.880 --> 01:43:19.039
reacting like.

1937
01:43:19.279 --> 01:43:21.239
So you throw it away instead of no, I'm not

1938
01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:22.119
saying I just had a.

1939
01:43:22.119 --> 01:43:26.359
Stillborn I think that she thought in her young mind.

1940
01:43:26.399 --> 01:43:28.960
I think the argument is going to be that she thought, well,

1941
01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:31.319
I can't bring him back if he's not alive, is

1942
01:43:31.319 --> 01:43:33.720
what I'm saying. The defense's argument is going to be

1943
01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.760
because first degree murder is intent, and if she said

1944
01:43:36.800 --> 01:43:39.920
in the room, in that spontaneous utterance it wasn't breathing,

1945
01:43:40.479 --> 01:43:43.399
I don't you don't know whether what she's saying is

1946
01:43:43.439 --> 01:43:45.159
true or not. You really don't.

1947
01:43:44.920 --> 01:43:48.359
Know, no, which you can know if the baby was breathing.

1948
01:43:48.399 --> 01:43:50.680
And that's when you would get the experts up there,

1949
01:43:51.279 --> 01:43:53.760
doctors that are for me no way more than you

1950
01:43:53.800 --> 01:43:55.520
and I do about this stuff.

1951
01:43:55.680 --> 01:43:57.640
I believe that baby would breath and they would.

1952
01:43:57.399 --> 01:44:00.439
Sit up there and either they're going to say, uh,

1953
01:44:00.720 --> 01:44:04.000
you know, maybe you couldn't really tell her. They may say, oh, no,

1954
01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:07.640
this this, Maybe you could tell it was breathing. There's

1955
01:44:07.680 --> 01:44:10.800
ways maybe that they would know that. I don't know.

1956
01:44:11.079 --> 01:44:13.960
I believe, I believe that the baby was breathing. I

1957
01:44:14.000 --> 01:44:16.600
want to say that. I'm just curious if the mother

1958
01:44:16.720 --> 01:44:20.520
knew because the totality of the circumstance, those teenagers, like

1959
01:44:20.560 --> 01:44:22.359
teenagers in high school, try to hide all sorts of

1960
01:44:22.399 --> 01:44:23.119
weird stuff.

1961
01:44:23.600 --> 01:44:24.760
Yeah, but murder.

1962
01:44:24.840 --> 01:44:26.359
It's not murder though, if she thought the baby was

1963
01:44:26.399 --> 01:44:29.319
dead in her mind. And that's where intent is that

1964
01:44:29.520 --> 01:44:31.960
The whole point is, you're not You have to you

1965
01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:35.039
have to prove intent to kill for a first degree

1966
01:44:35.079 --> 01:44:36.680
murder charge. And what I'm saying is I think that

1967
01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:40.640
there's room for I think there's room here for some

1968
01:44:40.640 --> 01:44:41.279
reasonable doubt.

1969
01:44:41.520 --> 01:44:43.680
That's what I'm saying all right, Well, we're going to

1970
01:44:43.760 --> 01:44:46.479
ask the lesseners. Are you on team Jim or team Kelly?

1971
01:44:46.520 --> 01:44:50.000
On that? We want to know if I lease them

1972
01:44:50.000 --> 01:44:50.800
would be pissed.

1973
01:44:50.880 --> 01:44:52.439
I don't know what the question is you're asking.

1974
01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:55.359
The question is do you where are you at on that?

1975
01:44:55.760 --> 01:44:58.279
Do you agree with Kelly that there's some sort of

1976
01:44:58.760 --> 01:45:01.960
reasonable doubt possible here? Or do you agree with Jim

1977
01:45:02.079 --> 01:45:07.920
that she knew she knew that what she was doing?

1978
01:45:07.960 --> 01:45:09.880
All right, So that's where I ask, do you think

1979
01:45:09.880 --> 01:45:11.640
that there could be room for reasonable doubt or do

1980
01:45:11.680 --> 01:45:13.720
you think that it's so it's signed, sealed, delivered?

1981
01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:19.199
All right? Any final faults? Kelly? Heck no, my brain.

1982
01:45:19.640 --> 01:45:23.600
My brain is cooked. But hey again, go check out

1983
01:45:24.159 --> 01:45:27.319
go check out his Nolan Wells on on exposed, Go

1984
01:45:27.319 --> 01:45:30.840
go follow that, uh that saga that he's covering, and

1985
01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:34.880
then you can go on my you're clicking your pen

1986
01:45:35.000 --> 01:45:38.840
really loud, okay, and you can go mine and and

1987
01:45:39.039 --> 01:45:39.800
you can or can't.

1988
01:45:39.800 --> 01:45:43.720
I don't know. She's gone. All right, y'all, we'll see

1989
01:45:43.720 --> 01:45:47.079
you next time. I'm Jim Chopping, I'm your host of crime.

1990
01:45:47.239 --> 01:45:59.800
What h