Dangerous Devotion: The Dennise Hayslip & Darren Cain Murders

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims whose cases are so
shocking that many are left wondering how is

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this even real? I use my
experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined

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with my years as a criminal justice
educator, dig deep into complex cases of

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evil acts, some so evil many
feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable

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as intended for mature audiences. If
you are easily offended, then I'm not

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your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, OKJ He're back for

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another episode of Unspeakable? What's going
on? I have some shout outs today

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and look two of them are from
right here in Denham Springs, Louisiana.

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And that just tickles me because y'all
want people, y'all from right where I'm

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from. So, Miss Dana East, how are you doing, Dana,

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I'm so excited to see you on
my roster as a supporter of the show.

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Thank you so very much, right
here from my hometown, as well

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as Miss Shelby Frasier. Hi,
Shelby, I'm so excited to have you

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here on the team, if you
will and joining in and supporting this show.

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I literally cannot do this without the
support of my patron members, so

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thank you so very much from the
bottom of my heart. I've also got

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someone from all the way in Sacramento, Sacramento, California, Miss Rochelle Orlando,

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Hey girl, how are you.
I've never been to Cali. I've

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said that before. It's on my
list, though, so if I'm ever

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out that way, I might have
to come say hey to you. But

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thank you so much for joining in, as well as Miss Brandy Frost from

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Hendersonville, North Carolina. Hey Brandy, Look all these ladies joining in.

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It's like, what is it about
women in true crime? Y'all? We

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love it, don't We can't get
enough of it. But there's one other

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girl that I have got to say
hey too. And she's actually not a

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patron member, but I have to
say hey. I taught her last year.

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She was a student that came all
the way from Germany and she got

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to stay here for a while and
do an internship and I was so excited

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to teach her. She's back in
Germany now, But Sophie, I know

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you're listening. You messaged me that
you're showing your friends all the way in

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Germany, which is just incredible to
be But my girl, I want I

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want to say hey to you,
and I'm so proud of you and forgive

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my accent, but I want to
make sure to tell her Ish Libidisch.

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Right. She taught me that means
I love you in German. So hey,

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Sophie, tell all your friends I
said hey to you, and that

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we really do know one another.
This case is going to take place in

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Livingston, Texas. Hey, Texas, how are y'all? This one's for

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you, right. So it's in
Livingston, Texas, which is the name

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of my parish, but it's the
freaking wrong state, right. Livingston,

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Texas is actually the largest city in
Polk County and is located about forty six

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miles south of Lufkin to kind of
give you a little geographical orientation there.

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And in April of nineteen ninety nine, this was the home of twenty seven

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year old Charles Thompson. Now Charles
would be out and about on his birthday,

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celebrating having a really good time with
you know, a night out on

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the town, when he would first
lay his eyes on a woman named Denise

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Hayslip. Now Denise was a little
bit older than Charles, eleven years to

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be exact. But from the start
they agreed that sparks flew between them,

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and as is you know, typically
usual whenever two people are interested in each

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other first meet. Charles decided he
was going to go approach Denise, and

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the two of them started talking.
And Charles was known as Chuck to his

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friends. Hey, that's my daddy's
name. His name is Charles. What

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he goes by Chuck Chucky, But
this Charles was also known as Chuck,

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and he would introduce himself as such
to Denise, and he would say that

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he was initially attracted to her smile
and the fact that he thought she was

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just so carefree, the way that
she carried herself right, dancing about open,

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having fun and in the life of
the party. He said that she

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was always laughing. And when he
said life of the party, it's not

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like that, you know, you
hear she was the life of the party,

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But like she really was, y'all. She everyone says that she just

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made you feel like you were at
home. Upon learning more and more,

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you know more and more about each
other, Chuck would find out that Denise

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was divorced and that she was now
considering this time in her life to be

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her time to shine. She felt
like she had missed out on a lot

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while she was married, and so
this was kind of when she was out

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and really gonna just be herself and
be care free. And the freedom of

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divorce was a wonderful thing. So
Denise was living it up. She loved

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to shoot pool, she liked to
throw darts. She just radiated a light

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that people were instantly attracted to.
So Chuck thrived on her beauty. And

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you know, talking into the evening, they you know, Chuck says,

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hey, it's my birthday. They
start sharing some drinks, beer to be

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exact, because he really likes beer, and quickly they were just throwing back

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drinks. The night was just going
about. They were having fun, and

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they were really hitting it off.
And they hit it off so well that

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that too actually would spend the night
together that night. Now, while this

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may not sound like a good idea
to some people, it happens. And

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I don't mean the fact that they
spent the night together. I mean the

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fact that, within a matter of
two weeks they decided that they wanted to

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move in with each other. A
night of fun is one thing, But

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taking that giant leap to moving in
with someone that you had just met,

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you know, roughly fourteen days ago, seems a bit extreme. But the

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two of them, they felt like
it made perfect sense. They just got

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along so well together. And I
would guess the term for this would be

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a whirlwind romance, as they didn't
really have a solid foundation and we're basically

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running on a wing in a prayer. But Charles was used to spending five

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to six nights a week playing darts
and shooting pool, and his description of

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her in those times is that is
that he thought she literally hung the moon.

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He said she was everything that I
want and I was in love with

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her. Now, there was no
doubt that the two of them were really

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tangled up in each other, But
there's also no doubt that their relationship,

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you know, it had its moments. In fact, as hard as they

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loved each other, they also fought
that hard as well. And while I

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can't say one hundred percent because y'all
know when they're it seems that there was

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this commonality of alcohol being involved in
their relationship. And you know, everyone

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grows up in their own experiences and
is molded by what they've been through,

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and I acknowledge that. But what
Chuck would casually refer to as a couple

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spats would sound a whole lot more
like domestic abuse battery to me. The

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more digging that I did into this
case. So one example I'll give you

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is that Chuck openly shares this instance
where they were at a Saint Patrick's Day

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incident and Denise and Chuck would be
arguing and they got so heated that Denise

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reached out and hit Chuck and then
he immediately hit her back. And when

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asked about it, you know,
Chuck would say, oh, you know,

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I really regretted it, and he
explains, like, I was drunk,

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she was drinking. We hit each
other. She hit me, I

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hit her, and you know why
she hit him is really unclear. But

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Chuck readily admitted, you know,
look, I lost my temper. I

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slapped her a couple of times.
But the thing is that's not all of

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it, because whenever she was seen
afterwards, she literally had a black eye.

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So when someone says, oh,
they got into a little spat,

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sometimes our experiences in life will dictate, you know, how we what we

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describe a spat to be. I
consider a spat and an argument over the

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phone, not someone slapping me about
and leaving me with a black eye.

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But while this is terrible, Chuck
asserted, Look, I was really embarrassed

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by the situation. I definitely wasn't
proud of myself. And he would say

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that was the first time he ever
hit a woman, and he wanted to

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forget the whole thing. So the
two of them decided to work things out

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and they remain together. After all, y'all, they had obligations to take

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care of together. Now this is
where I stop, and I want to

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add in a few tidbits of information
for you that I thought were kind of

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important. You know, when I'm
writing a podcast, it's always interesting to

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me how you explain a story can
greatly be dependent on who is telling the

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story. And what I'm trying to
say here is that perception is reality,

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right, How you perceive things to
be is your reality, and it depends

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on who's telling you what happened as
to what the truth might actually be.

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So in law enforcement, you know, I was always aware of the fact

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that, you know, when there's
some kind of dispute or spat as he

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called it, or situation where people
aren't getting along. Including domestic violence situations,

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there's usually her side and his side, and then somewhere in the middle

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lies the whole truth. Right.
So when I say that they had obligations

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to take care of, that thought
in and of itself is a bit mislead.

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And that's because Denise did have obligations
to take care of and she readily

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did so. But Chuck's position in
this is a little askew, and that

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he likes to claim he was handling
business and being, you know, the

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partner that Denise needed. But the
record reflected that he was more of like

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a scrub. You know what I
mean by scrub, Like, Okay,

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this will be the part of the
show where I sing to you because you

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know, it always seems to happen. But no, I don't want no

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scrub. A scrub is a guy
that can't get no love from me.

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You don't remember that song, Yeah, I'll release my new record next week.

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But anyway, he seemed like that
proverbial scrub that they talk about,

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right, And I think that song
was written about Chuck because old Boy never

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worked. He laid around the apartment
that they had together, and he says

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it was theirs, but in the
reality, it wasn't just he and Denise's.

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You know, Denise had a roommate
who contributed to the bills, and

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this roommate was Denise's co worker.
Her name was Lisa Gonzalez. So the

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apartment had two women who were rooms, Denise and Lisa. But the two

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also shared in the fact that they
were both single parents, Denise having one

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son and Lisa having two daughters.
So while Chuck may have gone around town

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claiming that they moved in together and
that they were happy in love, just

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an ounce of research shows that there
was a little bit more to this proverbial

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scrub. You know that I mentioned
before he moved into Denise's apartment. He

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rarely worked and he enjoyed the benefits
of what the two women were paying for.

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You know, he had a roof
over his head, he had food

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in his stomach, he had a
woman for his pleasure, but he just

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really didn't contribute. Matter of fact, Lisa, the roommate, would become

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so upset that she finally grew tired
of him mooching off of the both of

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them, and she told him,
look, you need to start contributing to

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this household. If you're going to
stay here, at which point he became

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completely irate. So I guess you
know, his presence wasn't the gift that

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kept on giving, you know,
as he must have thought it was.

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So when we talk about the cycle
of violence, okay, there's usually three

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phases, and I want to bring
this up before I go further into the

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story. Phase one is going to
be tension building and usually you know there's

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tension building between the batterer, and
then you know there's an argument. That's

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phase one. Then phase two is
that absolute explosion, and this is where

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the assault happens. And this seems
to be the cycle that Denise is in

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with Chuck. Right. They get
into an argument or a quote unquote spat,

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and that's whenever he explodes, and
his explosion results in some type of

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assault of her or battery. But
then there's phase three, and it's called

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the honeymoon phase. This is when
the abuser apologizes for his behavior. He

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buys gifts or flowers, he professes
his undying love for her and that this

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was just a mistake. So when
I think about domestic violence, one of

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the best ways that I can explain
it to people who have never experienced it

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is. I like to compare it
to the game of football. Right.

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I love football. I watch it
every day that's on television. I'll watch

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almost any game. If my teams
aren't playing, I'll watch any other team

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playing. You know, my collegiate
teams are LSU, But professionally I like

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the Saints for better or or worse, and my sweetheart Joseph Burrow. You

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know, I have to be a
Bengals fan. Right that said, I

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absolutely love the game. I love
to watch it, and I'm competitive.

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I want my team to win.
I want to drink beer, and I

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want to high five, and I
want to yell. But if I were

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to claim that I understood every single
rule or caveat or method in the madness,

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that would be an outright lie.
I'm gonna tell you right now.

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I understand the game of football,
don't get me wrong, But I don't

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know every single detail. And I'm
not arounded enough, Nor was I ever

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in a locker room growing up,
where when the commenters, you know,

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when they're commenting and there and they're
given their you know, expertise and thoughts

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on how the game is going.
I don't always understand exactly what they're implying

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in the plays, because I'm just
I haven't been elbowed deep in it like

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that personally, I've just watched it, and I sometimes don't understand their point

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because I don't fully understand the scope
of the entirety of the game. Well,

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domestic violence is much in the same, and that we can tell you

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the phases that these abusers are going
to put their victims through, and in

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a perfect world, it seems very
captain obvious what is going on. But

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the problem with domestic violence is the
abuser is always seemingly one step ahead of

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the victim. They write the rules
of to the game, and then the

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victim in turn is constantly trying to
relearn the game and the rules. But

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unfortunately for the victim, they figure
out these new rules too late, and

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the fact is that you just cannot
win the game. That's how abuse works.

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The game isn't fair, and it's
set up that way by the abuser

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so that they are always in the
power position. And then what outside looking

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in, what we forget to factor
in is love when someone has care and

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a genuine concern for the abuser.
Yet it's not the same from the abuser

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to that victim. You have a
setup of playing a constant game where neither

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one of you are playing the number
one the same game. Nobody understands the

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rules, and you can just see
how it turns into just a hot mess.

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And I'll add I'll add this too. I used to think that people

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who were abused were almost stupid.
Okay, And look, don't get mad

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at me. I'm being genuine in
my podcasting. I used to be like,

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my god, I guess you just
get what you deserve if you won't

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just get up and leave. When
I was younger, I thought that way

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before I had experienced life experience.
Okay, And I'm gonna own this that

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when I was thinking that way,
I was never accounting for that aspect of

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love. And when a victim loves
someone, you know, would you just

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walk away from someone you loved?
Most people you know, if they say

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00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.080
yes, I just wouldn't believe you. I've seen it too many times and

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it's just not a practical response.
The abuser sets it up this way on

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00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.240
purpose. They get the buy in, and they show you the best form

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of themselves. When y'all first get
together, you're in that whirlwind romance and

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love phase. They make the victim
fall in love with them, and then

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once they've got them, they change
the rules of the game. Okay,

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so we can see this. We
can see to this point that this relationship

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took a very quick approach. They
both dove in headfirst, and it seems

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00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.360
to me that Denise started figuring it
out and was ready to start separating herself

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from Chuck, but he already had
his talents sunk in and it was not

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going to be an easy split.
And this is where we see the situation

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where someone keeps getting together and breaking
up and getting back together and breaking up,

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because when it's good, it's really
really good. But when it's bad,

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y'all, it's really freaking bad,
and you basically get a fire in

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Gasoline's situation. So while living there, Chuck would grow increasingly jealous, possessive,

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and angry, and during these fits
of anger, he was known to

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throw things. He would kick things
like the refrigerator or the furniture. He

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00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.440
would punch and kick the walls,
and he was even known to leave holes

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in the walls. If that's not
like a flashing light. If someone is

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00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.159
willing to put holes in sheet rock, you need to step back and assess

237
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:33.440
the situation. On one specific occasion, though, that roommate that lived there,

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Lisa, she heard Chuck screaming at
Denise, and when I say screaming

239
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at her, she said that he
was calling her names and that eventually he

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grabbed her and started physically violently shaking
her. So Lisa jumped in and tried

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to stop Chuck from hurting Denise,
and that's when Chuck turned around, grabbed

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Lisa and threw her to the ground. So Lisa then jumped up because this

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was escalating, and she tried to
call the police, but the telephone went

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dead. Finally, you know,
they were all able to calm down,

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00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:10.279
and it wasn't until later that Lisa
realized that the telephone cord had literally been

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00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.400
ripped out of the wall, and
that's why she wasn't able to make that

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00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.759
phone call. The thing is,
Lisa was not in love with Chuck,

248
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right, and so Lisa wasn't willing
to put up with his bullshit not another

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day after that. She was not
bound to him. He was basically a

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00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.000
leech, a thorn in her side
in her home. She has daughters there,

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and he's acting like an idiot.
So she packed up her things,

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she packed up her daughters, and
she moved out. And once she moved

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out, Denise also moved out and
she got herself another apartment. Something interesting,

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00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:48.599
though, is that if you ask
Chuck about their relationship, he would

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00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.240
refer to these incidentss as little hiccups, you know, here and there.

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And I want to encourage you that, you know, you need to listen

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when people speak, because people are
always going to minimize violence as a hiccup.

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That's just what we in the biz
call a clue, right, Every

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00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.839
abuser is going to minimize what it
is that they are doing, so it's

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00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.799
just a little hiccup or a spat. Well, on March sixteenth, nineteen

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ninety eight, Lisa was being a
good friend and she accompanied Denise and Chuck

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00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:26.640
to a local pub. Now,
Chuck would become kind of irritated while they

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00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.559
were there, and Lisa described him
as sullen and angry during the evening,

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00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.359
and even at one point told Denise
he wanted her to sit down with him

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00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.920
and she was not to dance anymore. So, when someone has never experienced

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domestic violence, this may just seem
like, you know, a jealous lover,

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But I take issue with the fact
he wants her to sit next to

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him and not participate in the evening. So, okay, let's give him

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the benefit of doubt. Maybe he
was jealous of her dancing with other people.

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Okay, I can understand that,
But I draw a great issue with

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the fact he wants her to sit
next to him like a child being chastised

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00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:07.079
and not move. And simply put, this is a huge red flag.

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Abuse is driven by the desire for
control, to maintain power in the relationship,

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and to assume a position of superiority, and he is displaying it right

275
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.839
here in front of everyone. And
look this much. I can tell you,

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before I married my precious husband,
I was in this exact type of

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00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.839
relationship. And I can assure you
to this day, if someone told me

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00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.000
to sit down next to them,
a grown, ash, thirty nine year

279
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.759
old woman and not move, I
will not only be getting up, but

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00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.759
I will be dancing around like there
is no tomorrow. I will become a

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00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:42.480
dancing machine and no one's gonna make
me sit down ever, right, if

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00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:47.960
I want to stand up, I'll
stand up. So live with Denise was

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00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.680
living for five minutes, and you'll
understand exactly what I'm saying. I know

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00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.279
some of my listeners have been in
these types of relationships before and will totally

285
00:19:55.319 --> 00:20:00.559
understand what I'm telling you. But
these small little things really become big things

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00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.799
over time. Interesting enough, when
Lisa saw Denise three days later after that

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00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.200
incident at the club when he didn't
want her getting up, one side of

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00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:15.640
her face was bruised, her lip
was split, and there were bruises all

289
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:21.079
over her neck. So Denise was
paying a price for a relationship that she

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00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.039
really didn't want anymore. And she
may have loved Chuck or thought she did,

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00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.680
but love doesn't hurt. And at
this point, Denise really has one

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00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.599
foot out the door. And while
I never met Denise, just for my

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00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.759
you know, learning about her,
I feel like she was wanting to move

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00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.440
on, not only for her safety, but because she had something very precious

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00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.920
at home. And this would have
been Denise's son from her first marriage.

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00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.039
His name was Wade, And I
want y'all to know I did reach out

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00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.319
to Wade because I wanted to,
you know, talk to him and see

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00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.480
what all he had to say about
his mama, But he didn't respond to

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00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.160
my request at the time of this
recording. If he does, I'll certainly

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00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:03.000
share anything on my Patreon page that
he shares with me. But I did

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00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.359
go and I was looking at Denise's
photos, and I was researching this case,

302
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.960
and it just pulled at my heartstrings
because when I looked at the photos,

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00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:15.880
the era of time that she's in
is when my mom dressed and looked

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00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.119
the same back in the nineties,
and I remember my mom had those same

305
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:22.559
you know how women wore like the
turtlenecks and they had the sweaters over them,

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00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.079
and they had big gold hoop earrings. I don't know. It just

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00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:29.480
made me, you know, kind
of feel like aw Whenever I looked at

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00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.079
the photos of her huggin on her
son, it kind of made me feel

309
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.200
like I was looking at my own
mama. And Denise was a pretty woman

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00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.279
and she was a good mama.
And you can just tell by the photos

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00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.079
of the way she's holding her son
that she loved her boy. Unfortunately,

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00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.119
though, I don't know that she
was aware of the level of danger that

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00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:51.000
she was in until it just it
just got too deep, or did she

314
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.599
see Denise decided she was going to
make a change, and she broke things

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00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.960
off with Chuck. She did not
want to put up with his bullshit another

316
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:11.119
minute. And in that situation,
she had also recently started seeing another man

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00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:17.400
and his name was Darren. Now, Darren was a strapping fella. And

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00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:19.279
you can look at the photos and
I will post these on my patron But

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00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:23.200
this is a good guy, a
good looking guy. He looked, you

320
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.400
know, kind of like the what
you look for in the movies in the

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00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.000
nineties. You know, he was
tall, and he was handsome and just

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00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.799
a really described as a really outgoing
guy. They described him as friendly,

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00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.240
and he had a really really good
smile, like he had like that thousand

324
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.400
watt smile, you know that he
just lit up. And even his boss

325
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.640
had weighed in on what type of
person he was, and he said,

326
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.759
when you met him, and this
is a direct quote, you knew he

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00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.079
was going places. And that says
something, right. He was a driven

328
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:56.920
guy. And what's interesting about this
part of the story to me is perception.

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00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:02.920
Denise had effectively ended her relationship with
Chuck, had moved on and was

330
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.400
now dating Darren. But according to
Chuck, if you ask him, the

331
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.920
relationship wasn't over. Now this is
my opinion, but I'm gonna go with

332
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.319
it. I think the relationship was
over. I think Chuck wasn't going to

333
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:21.759
let it be over. And there's
a difference. See, the behavioral patterns

334
00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:27.119
of an abuser are pretty clear cut. Okay, here's the basic profile of

335
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:34.000
an abuser. Number one is jealousy, questioning a partner constantly about their whereabouts,

336
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:38.079
about the time that they're not with
their partner. Hence why he moved

337
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:44.400
in. Y'all. It was clever
and a manipulative move because from the get

338
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.480
go he wanted to be able to
account for her time. Number two controlling

339
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:53.039
behavior, things like, you know, they won't let their victim get a

340
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.559
job, they won't let them leave
the house. They won't even even let

341
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:02.079
them bathe without first advising, you
know, their user. Just like when

342
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:03.240
he said sit with me. I
don't want you out there, and I

343
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.759
don't want you dancing. You need
to sit by me. So I mean,

344
00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:11.720
he's checkmarking two of the lists so
far. And number three isolation.

345
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.960
They make the victim move away from
their family or they move away from their

346
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.000
friends. They want to separate the
victim from them so that they have to

347
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:26.400
solely depend on the abuser for any
type of support. They put that wedge

348
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.720
in there and we saw this.
Even the roommate moved out. Lisa wasn't

349
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.240
going to put up with this.
And y'all, isolation doesn't always mean forcefully

350
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:41.279
either. It can be threat,
you know that, the threat that the

351
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.519
abuser puts off, and then it
runs off your friends because they just don't

352
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.000
like him, they don't want to
be around him. So check mark,

353
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.799
check mark, checkmark. Chuck seems
to be really checking off the list here.

354
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.319
This is another friend of Denise's.
Her name was Missy, and she

355
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:57.799
said, look, when I saw
him, first, I thought, damn,

356
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:03.079
he's cute. But the other side
of me quickly realized that there was

357
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.400
something not right with him. And
she said that was one you needed to

358
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.920
keep your eye on. You know, when your friends are telling you that

359
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.359
somebody is a problem, usually your
friends, you know, are telling you

360
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.240
for a reason. But Denise,
again in the beginning, was in love

361
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.599
and she just thought maybe he was
misunderstood. She even saw Denise one time

362
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.359
and they were like in the bar, in a bar restaurant. Missy was

363
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.960
a bartender and they were, you
know, she went to go have a

364
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.680
few drinks and that's whenever she leaned
in and was talking to Denise, and

365
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.559
Denise said, hey, look,
I've got a lot of makeup one and

366
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:37.559
she was like, what do you
mean? And so she leaned up and

367
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.720
showed her that she had bruising on
her face and her eye. And right

368
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.240
then and there, Missy told Denise
you've got to get away from him.

369
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:49.039
This guy is a loose cannon.
He drinks too much. And then here's

370
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:55.720
a new bit of information. He
also used cocaine. So it doesn't take

371
00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.640
you know a lot of intelligence to
know that drinking and cocaine or probably not

372
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:06.759
a good combo. The last thing
about an abuser is that they hold very

373
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.279
rigid gender roles and so usually when
it's a male offender, for example,

374
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.400
the partner's job is to cater to
him. Right, he is the man.

375
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.119
He needs to be taken care of. Well, now, in this

376
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.759
story, that's a problem because as
I told you, Denise was done with

377
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:27.400
him. So now he's going to
push all his chips in and he's about

378
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:36.559
to go all in. There's a
dive bar named Bimbo's, and Bimbo's is

379
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.000
in Houston, and it's where Denise
and a lot of her friends like to

380
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.119
go. They would frequent the place, and Denise was there with a friend

381
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.319
named Chad and another friend named Missy, that same one I mentioned a minute

382
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.319
ago, and that's where they were
on the night that that tragedy would take

383
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:55.920
place. They were all there playing
darts. They were enjoying steak night,

384
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:02.559
and Missy just was lovingly describing her
friend as just freaking incredible. She said,

385
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:04.200
She's one of those people from the
minute you meet them, you just

386
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.480
feel like you've known them your whole
life. You know, you've talked for

387
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.039
five minutes, and it's just like
she was your aunt, or your best

388
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.480
friend, or a childhood playmate,
and she just had this ability to make

389
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.839
you feel like you were at home
from the minute you met them. And

390
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:25.279
this is where the stories differ.
But only one person will remain standing that

391
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:33.200
can speak. So the absolute manipulation
and convenient minimization is going to be why

392
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.200
I'm going to take the approach I'm
about to take in telling the story,

393
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.759
because I want you to see it
as it lays out. It's so obvious

394
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:44.279
when someone is trying to manipulate others
if you know what you're looking for.

395
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.559
And I see this time and time
again when people go to the prisons,

396
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.119
and you know, they'll get to
speak with inmates, and then these inmates

397
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:59.000
will conveniently leave out information that does
matter and will absolutely change the scope of

398
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.319
your understanding of a So I hope
you understand why I'm going to tell the

399
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:07.960
story the way that I'm going to
tell it. Remember, men who abuse

400
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:15.599
are clever, smart, and extremely
charming, and most of these men have

401
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:22.240
a personality that draws people in and
they are adept at being that charming yet

402
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:27.200
deceiving and manipulating human being. So
I'm going to start with Chuck's explanation of

403
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:34.599
the night. Chuck's statements are that
people like to portray him as this disgruntled

404
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:38.160
ex boyfriend, and he says that
was not the case. He says,

405
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:42.759
me and Denise were very much together
on the night that this tragedy took place,

406
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:48.759
and that things just went bad.
He was upset with Denise because he

407
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.519
says, and these are his words, that she went and slept with a

408
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:57.000
bartender that he knew. Now,
Chuck had met him several times, but

409
00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:02.400
says he never had a clue that
he was seeing quote unquote my girl.

410
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:08.079
Chuck paints himself as the unknowing victim
if you will, and that he says

411
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.200
it should have snapped whenever they were
at the bar that night and he was

412
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:17.039
giving free rounds of drinks to them, and he says, it just didn't

413
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.000
occur to me, you know why, you know, I didn't know why

414
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.200
this guy was being so nice to
me. He's being so cool. But

415
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.680
Chuck claims only after the fact did
he realize that she had been in that

416
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:33.359
same restaurant for lunch a few times
before that night, and she was already

417
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.160
seeing this guy. Y'all. The
guy is Darren. Okay, she tells

418
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.920
everybody else she's dating Darren and that
they are, you know, in a

419
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.279
relationship. But Chuck's perception is that
he had no clue that this was going

420
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:49.279
on. She just up and went
and slept with another guy and then was,

421
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:53.079
you know, openly getting free drinks
and all this, and he is

422
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:57.559
just taken by utter shock and surprise. And the details at this point are

423
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:03.680
a bit unclear, but Chuck states
that Darren called him about two point thirty

424
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.759
in the morning, and the reason
that Darren called him that morning was because

425
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:14.920
Darren wanted to hook back up with
Denise again. Chuck then says look,

426
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.720
we got into a fight, and
the sheriff came and he told both of

427
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.279
us to leave. Me and Darren
needed to go because we got into an

428
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.079
argument. Chuck says, I complied
with this, and then at six o'clock

429
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.000
the next morning, I returned to
the apartment to get my stuff because I

430
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:37.880
needed to go to work. Now
understand that that assessment of what Chuck says

431
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.119
happened is now going to be compared
against what other people said happened. A

432
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:49.279
neighbor always seems to have information,
right, and a neighbor of Denise's her

433
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.880
name was Catherine Page. She says
that she woke up at three a m.

434
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:56.920
On the morning we're talking about,
in the morning of April thirtieth,

435
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.640
to the sound of her dog barking, and she also could hear somebody screaming,

436
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.440
so she kind of got up and
she heard loud voices, including a

437
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:12.559
female voice, and she clearly heard
the words stop and help me. So

438
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.559
the neighbor was so alarmed that she
got up and she called the police,

439
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.720
and she even walked out to check
Denise's apartment number to give that number to

440
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.960
the nine one one operator, and
when she stepped out, she saw Denise

441
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.799
and Darren standing outside, but neither
of them appeared to be hurt or wounded

442
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.240
in any way. The neighbor did
notice, though, that Denise she seemed

443
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:44.559
really agitated and she was obviously apologizing
to Darren for quote unquote for all of

444
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:49.799
this. And it was about that
time that Chuck came from inside of the

445
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:56.359
apartment and is yelling and cussing and
calling Denise a whore. So the neighbor

446
00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:01.440
is just stunned by what's occurring.
And the neighbor also noticed that, you

447
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:07.200
know, at that time, Chuck
had a black eye. So at that

448
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.279
point, you know, Chuck is
screaming he's got the black eye. Denise

449
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:13.599
is looking at Darren and sat Darren, I'm so sorry for all of this.

450
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.640
And that's when Darren turns to Chuck
and says, chill, dude,

451
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.799
you need to chill. And that's
when Chuck turned to Darren and yelled out

452
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:28.519
this direct quote, do you want
to die? Motherfucker. About that time,

453
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.640
Deputy William Koker, who was the
officer who responded to the disturbance,

454
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:38.039
was there, and he noted that
when he arrived, Darren, Denise,

455
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:44.480
and Chuck were all standing outside and
things appeared to be calm whenever the deputy

456
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.880
actually walked up. He did note
that Chuck's face was swollen from being in

457
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:52.359
a fight, but he quickly ascertained
that Chuck was the one who started the

458
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:58.119
fight and that, you know,
things had calmed down at this point and

459
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.880
nobody wanted to file charges. They
just wanted it to be over with,

460
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:07.559
so did Deputy Cocher told Chuck to
leave the complex, and he followed him

461
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.680
as he exited the property, and
when he finally was leaving the property,

462
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:17.160
Deputy Coker warrened Chuck that he would
be committing criminal trespass if he returned.

463
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:24.920
Now, what Chuck didn't know was
that there were other people who were aware

464
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:30.400
of the tension that was building between
Chuck and Denise up to that time that

465
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:34.519
they went. He went to the
apartment and got in the fight with Darren

466
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:38.079
Okay, And these were people that
Chuck didn't even know, so he couldn't

467
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:43.319
have accounted for what they knew,
right, he couldn't have even he wouldn't

468
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:46.480
have even spoken to him to know
them. So on the evening of April

469
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:52.160
twenty ninth, that's when Darren called
his best friend Tony Alfano and asked him

470
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.519
to meet him at the bar to
watch a Rockets game, but Alfano couldn't

471
00:33:55.559 --> 00:34:00.720
make it. So at two point
thirty the next more, which would have

472
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.839
been that April thirtieth, where the
neighborhood the screaming, Darren again called Alfano

473
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:12.239
and he told him that Chuck had
just threatened him over the telephone. So

474
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.719
Darren also told Alfano, look,
this Chuck guy has been beaten up Denise

475
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.199
and messing with her, and I'm
just going to go over to her apartment

476
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.840
to help her because she's kind of
afraid and i just want to make sure

477
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.559
that nothing happens to her. This
is before the fight took the physical fight

478
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:32.159
took place. This also coincides with
Darren speaking to his boss. His boss's

479
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:35.400
name was Jim Kelly. Hey,
shout out for that name, Haun.

480
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:40.159
That's me and Jimathy combined. But
Jim Kelly knew about this brewing situation between

481
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:49.079
the men and between Chuck and Denise. He even said Darren called him and

482
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.519
said that Chuck had been threatening Denise, so he wanted to go to her

483
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.840
place to protect her if Chuck showed
up, and Jim said, okay,

484
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.360
man that's fine, you can go. You can you know, you can

485
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:06.920
leave work, and that boss says
that to this day he regrets saying yeah,

486
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.119
go ahead, because it did end
up in that physical altercation that the

487
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:17.719
neighbor saw and overheard. Now,
Darren said he told Chuck, look,

488
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.000
this is stupid. She's not dating
you anymore. She's dating me. And

489
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.719
Darren was trying to be the nice
guy at this point, and he was

490
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:30.960
trying to mitigate this situation. Once
Chuck showed up and he even offered to

491
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:35.119
talk, he says, look,
man, why don't me and you go

492
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.800
have a beer. Let's go talk
things out, because we don't need to

493
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:42.119
have this drama. Okay, let's
be adults about this. And apparently that

494
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.760
happened, because Darren told his boss
later that he felt really good about what

495
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:50.519
happened. That they had kind of
you know, they may have fought,

496
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.440
but they had duked it out or
whatever, and they were gonna be men

497
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.960
about it and shake hands, and
Darren legitimately felt like he and Chuck had

498
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.079
come to an agreement. It was
quashed, and Denise and Daryl were going

499
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.440
to go their way together and Chuck
was going to go off on his way,

500
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.599
so as you can see to this
point in the story, which I

501
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:14.480
mean, I haven't even told you
what ends up happening, but the manipulation

502
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:20.480
is on point. Chuck is clearly
laying his case that his woman was cheating

503
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.800
on him and was stolen by this
other man without him even having a clue

504
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:28.639
of what was going on behind his
back. And if other people weren't in

505
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:36.239
this story and weren't able to legitimize
Darren's point of view and Denise's point of

506
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.360
view, then you might be inclined
to believe what Chuck is saying, right

507
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:45.000
because if you recall from a few
minutes ago, Chuck also claimed that the

508
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:50.199
men got in a fight at the
apartment over Denise. But this was a

509
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.400
new apartment and not the original apartment
that they shared together with that other roommate.

510
00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:59.800
So why was Darren already there,
if you want to think of it,

511
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:02.079
that when they were supposed, you
know, when the argument was supposed

512
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.400
to have taken place. Chuck manipulates
and he leaves out important information when he's

513
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.079
explaining a situation because he wants to
make it look like they're both having an

514
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:16.239
argument over Denise, when in reality, Darren was already at the apartment per

515
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:22.599
Denise's request, because Chuck had been
threatening her. Chuck says that both men

516
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.880
were told to leave, but if
you look at the police report and court

517
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:32.719
documents, it says Chuck was told
to leave. So in Denis's world,

518
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:37.920
the relationship was over and she was
afraid of Chuck. But in Chuck's mind

519
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:44.280
the relationship wasn't over because he said
it wasn't over. Period. Now there's

520
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:49.639
another man defending Denise's honor and Chuck
doesn't like it, and Chuck wants to

521
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.840
be in charge. He likes to
be in charge. So there's five types

522
00:37:53.880 --> 00:38:00.119
of abuse, and they usually start
with the least noticeable things first and then

523
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:05.119
they become more obvious, you know, as the relationship grows. So the

524
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.719
five types. Number one, there's
emotional abuse where you play mind games with

525
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:14.039
you. Number two it's the verbal
and name calling that sounds familiar, right.

526
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.679
Then they usually move on to technological
abuse. This is where there's GPS

527
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:23.559
tracking, they'll sabotage Facebook, or
they'll get all up into you technologically speaking.

528
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:30.639
The next step or not step.
But a common type of abuse is

529
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.400
sexual abuse. And this is where
even if you are in a relationship,

530
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:39.960
the partner who is the abuser will
force their partner who is the victim,

531
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:45.800
into sex even if they don't want
to. And then the last and most

532
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:50.880
serious level of abuse is physical abuse. You know, physical harm, punching,

533
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:57.400
choking, and it often leads to
murder. It's like a roadmap.

534
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.320
Domestic violence is a roadmap. Everyone
has their own experiences, but the map

535
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:07.480
is still from point A to point
B. So about six am that same

536
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:14.519
morning after the deputy told Chuck to
leave, that same neighbor who called police

537
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:20.960
about the disturbance had a son leaving
for school and he heard gunshots. A

538
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.440
little time went by thereafter, and
when the neighbor heard someone beating on her

539
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:29.639
door, she quickly ran to the
door to see who it was. And

540
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:34.960
when she walked outside, that same
neighbor found Denise sitting on the ground,

541
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.920
bleeding from her mouth and gasping to
breathe. So the neighbor frantically tried to

542
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:45.159
figure out what had happened, when
Denise, who couldn't talk, made a

543
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:50.400
sign with her hand like someone shooting
a gun. And that really brings me

544
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:55.800
back to nineteen Day Devil, that
episode and how the daddy in that case

545
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.800
who was killed did the same thing. He held up his finger like a

546
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:05.280
gun. He was shot in the
face, in the mouth. So nine

547
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.400
one one was called again and that
same deputy that came at two am returned

548
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:14.199
to this scene. Y'all, it
is not uncommon for deputies to go back

549
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.960
to the same address multiple times over
domestic disputes, and this is why they're

550
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:22.079
so dangerous, because they escalate.
And that's why when police ask one party

551
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.480
to leave or for parties to separate, it's so important for that cool down

552
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:31.800
period to take place. But when
Deputy Cocher arrived back at the apartment,

553
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:37.039
he found Denise sitting in a pool
of blood, with a bullet hole in

554
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:42.159
her right cheek and a great amount
of blood draining out of her mouth.

555
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.880
And realizing the seriousness of her injuries, Deputy Cocher directly asked her if Chuck,

556
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:50.079
who had kicked out earlier, had
shot her in the face, and

557
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:53.880
she nodded her head yes. Deputy
Coker called for help and the ambulance was

558
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.760
en route to the apartment, and
while that was happening, Deputy Coker went

559
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:02.360
to go the apartment to kind of
clear it and make sure Chuck wasn't hiding

560
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:07.440
inside waiting to ambush or whatever could
have happened. But Cocher didn't make it

561
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:12.320
that far because right as he walked
in the front door of the apartment there

562
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.239
he found Darren's dead body in Denise's
apartment, right there at the doorway.

563
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.239
Now, I do have crime scene
photos and I'm gonna post those on my

564
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.320
Patreon so you can go look at
the photos and you can have that crime

565
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:29.679
scene speak to you if you want. But something that spoke to me that

566
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.199
stood out when I was looking through
the crime scene photos, and it seems

567
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:37.079
kind of important to me, is
the fact that Darren isn't dressed. You

568
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:40.000
know, he's in his boxers and
he has no shirt on. And this

569
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:45.320
tells me that Darren was very comfortable
and was in like a resting state when

570
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:51.280
he was alarmed, and at the
front door he wasn't dressed, and this

571
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.880
was a very informal setting. So
in my mind, this makes sense because

572
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.719
Denise was with Darren, they were
in a relationship and they were together,

573
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.679
and in my mind, they were
in that apartment sleeping because Darren there was

574
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:09.159
there to protect Denise and Denise's injuries. As you can imagine were very serious.

575
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:13.800
So rather than being taken by ambulance, she ends up being life flight

576
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:19.559
helicopter, you know, to Hermann
Hospital, and doctors were able to stabilize

577
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.360
Denise enough that she was you know, waiting to have surgery on her face.

578
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.840
And she was able though, to
have people come visit her at her

579
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.679
bedside. So her brother and some
other family members came into the room to

580
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:36.000
see her, and while Denise was
awaiting surgery, her brother asked her,

581
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:40.480
did Chuck do this to you?
And Denise nodded emphatically, yes, right,

582
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:44.480
there was no doubt. Emphatically she
said, yes, he did this.

583
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:50.159
He shot me in the face.
So Darren was doa right. He

584
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:54.280
was dead on arrival, and he
had multiple gunshot wounds, and he also

585
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:59.360
had what looked to be like an
execution wound to the back of his neck.

586
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.960
So, as you can imagine,
police have a lot of questions for

587
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.360
Chuck, considering a police officer on
the scene had already dealt with them earlier

588
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:12.519
in the evening and he told him
to leave, So why was he back

589
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.719
on scene? Why is there a
dead man in the opening of the doorway

590
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.840
of the apartment, and why is
Denise shot in the face. So I'm

591
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:23.320
sure you, as a listener have
those same questions as well. So I'm

592
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:28.599
going to tell you what Chuck says
happened before all hell broke loose at Denise's

593
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.519
apartment. According to Chuck, Darren, who is now going to he refers

594
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:35.719
to him as this gentleman, which
is just weird, okay. According to

595
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:42.800
him, Darren was now at the
apartment with her, and inquiring minds are

596
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.440
kind of wanting to know, like
how do you know this? Like why

597
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.880
would you know that Darren was in
the apartment and why were you in the

598
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:53.320
apartment. So, according to Chuck, he went back to the apartment that

599
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.199
morning to get things for work,
and it was at this point after he

600
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.440
entered the apartment that he and the
gentleman got into a verbal altercation where he

601
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.519
says, one thing led to the
other and the two men ended up in

602
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:10.639
a physical altercation where Darren ran and
grabbed a knife out of the kitchen block

603
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:16.320
and began threatening Chuck. And it
was at this point that Chuck had no

604
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:22.679
option other than to pull the gun
he brought with him to the scene because

605
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:29.320
he felt threatened, so he drew
down on Darren and then conveniently, the

606
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:34.320
rest of the night just kind of
goes into a blur. Chuck doesn't remember,

607
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.679
you know, much other than he
says we were pretty much in a

608
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:43.519
standoff. Now. He does make
mention that he was still a little drunk

609
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.519
and hungover when he got to the
apartment, but it's just a big blur.

610
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:51.920
And they were tumbling around and fighting
over the pistol. And as the

611
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.639
men were fighting, Chuck says,
Denise comes out and starts trying to break

612
00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:02.119
them up when she got hit and
she basically was trying, you know,

613
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:07.480
she got into the middle of them
fighting, and that's when a shot went

614
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.880
off. It's always interesting to me
that a shot goes off. It's not

615
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:14.400
that I pulled the trigger, but
a shot went off, and she was

616
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:20.440
shot in the face through the cheek
and it stopped in her jaw. He

617
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.920
then says that he checked on Denise
right He fell to her side and checked

618
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.360
on her, but he thought that
she was dead and so he ran at

619
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.280
that point and grabbed a telephone to
call nine to one one, but the

620
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:37.400
call just didn't go through and that's
when he freaked out and he left.

621
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:44.239
Okay, cool story, bro But
my question is you only had items of

622
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:49.239
that apartment that you You only had
items at that apartment that you could have

623
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:53.239
taken to work. You literally didn't
have items to where it to work.

624
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:57.639
I don't know where you actually were
living at that time, because you did

625
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.719
not live in that apartment. Other
question I have in this convenient story is,

626
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.800
if you do just a little bit
of research, he didn't have a

627
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.320
key to the apartment. And I
know that because when looking at the crime

628
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:15.280
scene photos, the door is kicked
off of the door frame, the frame

629
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:21.000
is busted open. So it's interesting
to me that Chuck never seems to mention

630
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:23.599
how he gained access to the apartment, because the average person would think,

631
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.679
oh, well he used the key, right, Well, we'd be wrong,

632
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:31.000
because he kicked the door in,
he broke the doorframe, And it

633
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:35.760
just seems like a really weird way
to enter a home to me. You

634
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:38.079
know, if you were going to
get things that you needed from that home,

635
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:40.199
why wouldn't you use a key?
Oh, that's right, because you

636
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:45.440
probably don't have one because you don't
live there, Which then also raises the

637
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:47.599
question as to why did you bring
a gun with you to the apartment.

638
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.079
You know, that you can beat
the shit out of Denise. You've proven

639
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.119
that time and time again. And
according to Chuck's own statements, the police

640
00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:00.360
told both men to leave. So
why would he think that he needed a

641
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:05.760
gun to defend himself against someone if
he's claiming they both were told to leave.

642
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.800
The manipulation here of the way he
tells the story is incredible. So

643
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:15.639
more questioning is done of Chuck,
and he again initiates the idea that,

644
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.000
look, we were not broken up. We broke up, we got back

645
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.599
together, we broke up, we
got back together. We often went and

646
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:28.079
we would date other people. I
don't know what you would call it,

647
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.960
you know, But he keeps saying, look, we just couldn't leave each

648
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:34.719
other alone, and we kept coming
back and forth to one another. And

649
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.239
then he adds, look, I
called first before I went back to the

650
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.280
apartment, he said. I went
to a payphone. I called, and

651
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:45.679
I told her I have to come
and get my work stuff, you know.

652
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:47.639
And so he shows up and then
claims I went back to the bedroom

653
00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:51.800
and I started getting my clothes and
stuff, you know, out of the

654
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:57.880
dresser. And that's when Darren sits
up in the bed and and he's like,

655
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.320
oh my god, there's somebody in
bed with Denise, and I wasn't

656
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.599
I just wasn't trying to wake her
up. I was just trying to get

657
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:06.920
my stuff. And I was stunned
to see that Darren was in the bed

658
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:09.440
with her. I mean, I
told her I was coming, and when

659
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:13.800
I saw him, I just,
you know, I had no words.

660
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:16.519
This is he says. I was
a confused drug addict and an alcoholic,

661
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:22.599
and you know, I felt that
she was lying. And you know,

662
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:24.960
there's just not much more about this
I want to talk about. At this

663
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.960
point, he says, I really
just wish it never happened. I mean,

664
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:30.840
it was just a bad situation all
the way around, and I didn't

665
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:35.079
mean any harm. Well, I
mean, I guess you don't want to

666
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.519
talk about it, dude, What
is there to talk about? No matter

667
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.280
what you say, you look bad
because you're lying, and it's pretty obvious

668
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.360
you're lying. Why would you want
to keep talking? You kicked down a

669
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:49.679
door and then you're trying to claim
I wasn't gonna wake her up. I

670
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.800
was just trying to go get my
stuff. If there was a bullshit meter,

671
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.920
we done bloated up, y'all.
It's on fire and it's shot to

672
00:48:55.960 --> 00:49:01.159
the moon. You know, why
would you keep talking? But regardless,

673
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:04.199
this, as you can see,
is not a who'd done it? We

674
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.920
know who done it. Chuck Thompson
was charged with manslaughter for the death of

675
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:15.360
Darren Kine and the aggravated assault of
Denise Hayslip, which in and of itself

676
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.800
is like, excuse me. If
you shoot me in the face and you

677
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:24.280
get aggravated assault, I'm like offended
you shot me in the head. That's

678
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:30.400
not you know. But anyway,
the story isn't over, y'all, not

679
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:35.840
even close. There's another fun data
point that I want to give you,

680
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:40.920
and it's this men who abuse y'all. They're clever, smart and charming,

681
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:47.400
and most of these men possess a
personality that it first draws people in and

682
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:52.400
that helps them to be deceiving and
manipulating. And when a victim reports an

683
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:59.440
assault, some you know, she's
not easily believed. And I'm not saying

684
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:02.639
that the police didn't believe Denise and
what she said happened. Of course they

685
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:07.880
did. But what I'm saying is
that, you know, when I say

686
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.840
a victim, you know, reports
an assault, and they're not easily believed.

687
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:15.400
It's not that she's unbelievable, it's
that he is so manipulative and how

688
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.719
he explains what happened that it's just, you know, he's able to put

689
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.519
a lot of truth and just enough
believability in how he explains what happened that

690
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.360
makes it kind of like, hmm, you know, he makes it seem

691
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.159
like he's being cheated on with Darren, and so it casts doubt on her

692
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:37.000
integrity as a woman, and it
almost lends itself to well, you know,

693
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:42.840
maybe maybe you shouldn't cheat on this
man and he wouldn't have freaked out.

694
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:47.000
It's taking the victim and implying that
she somehow held responsibility in what happened

695
00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:52.719
to her, even if it's just
a minute amount of responsibility. So,

696
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:58.400
while police are trying to secure the
crime scene and determine exactly what happened to

697
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:02.000
cause Darren's death, Denise is still
alive at this point and her prognosis was

698
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:07.679
actually looking pretty good. So during
surgery this is when things would take a

699
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:14.400
turn though. Doctors were unable to
secure an airway because of all the facial

700
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:17.800
trauma, and Denise fell into a
coma and a few days later, her

701
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:22.280
family was told, look, she's
brain dead, and they said, okay.

702
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:24.800
At this point they agreed, we
just need to remove her from life

703
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:30.119
support. So you know, Denise
did continue to live for four more days

704
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:35.159
when they made that decision, but
ultimately she would die a week after she

705
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.079
was shot, and the medical examiner
testified that according to the doctors who performed

706
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:45.000
Denise's autopsy, the cause of death
was a gunshot wound to the face.

707
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.960
So now we have two dead people
murdered in their home at the hands of

708
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:52.800
an ex boyfriend. So where is
Chuck during all of this? Right,

709
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:58.199
Well, after the crime happened,
he says he went to a friend's house

710
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.800
and he passed out the shock.
He woke up a few hours later and

711
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:06.679
it would be early morning and the
shooting was on TV. So, according

712
00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:09.800
to Chuck, the friend was watching
the news and he and she told him

713
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:14.239
about it. My god, look
at this, and then you know,

714
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.519
Chuck just says he gassed with delight. Oh my god, she's alive.

715
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.280
Right. He was happy because in
the film, he says, I saw

716
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:25.039
Denise sitting up on the gurney when
she was being like wheeled away, and

717
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:30.480
so he started crying with relief.
Yes she's alive, right, because he

718
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.320
thought she was dead when he left. And that's when he says, I

719
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:36.519
made a phone call to my dad, and that's when my dad said,

720
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:38.760
look, the police are looking for
you and they have you as armed and

721
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:43.800
dangerous. You need to go turn
yourself in. And so that's what Chuck

722
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.480
says he did. Again. I
guess noble in a weird sense that he

723
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.960
did go and turn himself in.
But the problem here is that he again

724
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:58.920
left out a bit of information that
you might find interesting. I know I

725
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:02.559
did. The friends house that Chuck
had gone to was named Diane. She

726
00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:07.519
was getting her daughter ready for school, so Chuck waited for her in the

727
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:12.159
living room, but he fell asleep
while waiting, and so after her daughter

728
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:16.039
left to go to school, Diane
was watching the news while Chuck was sleeping.

729
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:20.559
As she was watching it, that's
when she saw the story about the

730
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:24.079
shooting and Chuck woke up a couple
of hours later. So Diane jokingly said

731
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:29.360
about Chuck's black eye, because remember
Chuck had a black eye from the original

732
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:32.480
fight when the cops made him leave. Diane joked about his black eye,

733
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:37.119
and she said, I hope the
other guy looks worse, just joking,

734
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:44.159
and that's when Chuck replied, he
does because I shot him. Chuck then

735
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:47.159
told Diane that he had been beaten
up in a fight, so he left

736
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:51.559
the apartment where it had happened,
and he went and he got a gun,

737
00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.000
and upon his return, he told
Diane, I kicked in the apartment

738
00:53:55.039 --> 00:54:01.400
door and I shot Darren four times. Chuck then told Diane he shot Denise,

739
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:07.000
but right before he shot her,
he said to her, I can

740
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:10.039
shoot you too, bitch, when
he put the gun to her cheek and

741
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:15.679
he pulled the trigger. And then
I guess, in his bravado of explaining

742
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:19.960
everything that he did, he then
added that he threw the gun in a

743
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:23.400
creek after he left the scene.
Chuck then he was telling the truth,

744
00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:27.760
y'all when he said that he did
ask or he did call his dad,

745
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.320
because he asked Diane if he could
use her phone to call his dad.

746
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:36.360
But it's a little bit different than
what he says, because his father showed

747
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:40.199
up at the apartment of his friend, picked him up, and then took

748
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:45.719
him directly to the police station himself, where Chuck then turned himself in for

749
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:52.000
the shooting. The truth is Daddy
came and made you go bro. Something

750
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:55.480
else that Chuck forgot to mention was
that he later called Diane from jail in

751
00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:01.320
an attempt to influence her to change
her story of about why he had returned

752
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:07.960
to the apartment of Diane. See, a lot of stuff has been left

753
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:12.000
out to manipulate the story, but
when you get all the pieces, it's

754
00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:17.039
like, okay. So, after
Denise's death, police took Chuck down to

755
00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:22.639
the courthouse, and seven days after
they had charged him with manslaughter and aggravated

756
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:29.239
assault, they dropped those charges and
they introduced double capital murder charges because both

757
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:34.519
of them both of the victims had
died. The trial was held, and

758
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.639
while everything I've told you so far
was mentioned, there was an additional bit

759
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:44.760
of info I found interesting during the
weapon explanation of the trial. See a

760
00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:49.960
deputy with the Harris County Sheriff's Office
testified that the murder weapon was eventually recovered

761
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:55.679
with the help of an informant.
The firearms examiner testified that after evaluating the

762
00:55:55.719 --> 00:56:00.119
weapon and all of the evidence at
the scene of the shooting, the weapon

763
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:07.599
had to have been reloaded during the
incident. And this seems crazy considering Chuck's

764
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.679
detail of the events as spur of
the moment and that he was in too

765
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:15.119
much of a haze to remember it
all, this means even more bullets were

766
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:19.760
loaded or he had two magazines with
him, but either way, it seems

767
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:24.760
Chucky forgot to mention that part as
well. So Chuck was charged with committing

768
00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:30.199
capital murder by murdering more than one
person during the same criminal transaction, and

769
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:36.159
on April sixth, nineteen ninety nine, Charles Thompson was convicted of both murders

770
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:40.519
and sentenced to death row, which
is fitting. But the story doesn't end

771
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:46.360
there, y'all. If you are
convicted and get a death sentence, you

772
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:51.119
do get, you know, an
automatic first appeal. It has to be

773
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:52.760
a legitimate one, though, and
you can't just appeal it because you don't

774
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.199
want to be executed. There has
to be grounds, you know, sufficient

775
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.559
to substantiate your appeal. And this
is where this came goes from sad to

776
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:08.679
completely insulting. The grounds of Chuck's
appeal are stunning. Chuck's claim is that

777
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:15.639
he didn't kill Denise, the hospital
did. Now this claims an interesting one

778
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:21.519
because it could ultimately change what his
penalty would be Theoretically, he could be

779
00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:24.760
charged to a life imprisonment rather than
a death penalty if he can prove that

780
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:29.320
he did not actually cause her death, but rather the hospital did. So

781
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:34.239
Chuck's overall belief is that there was
the complications from the hospital and that they

782
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:37.400
had suffocated her on accident when they
could not establish the breathing tube in the

783
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.800
hospital for the surgery, and that's
why she died. And as sick as

784
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:50.159
it sounds, he's making a rather
valid argument. And the way he's able

785
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:54.280
to say, look, this is
valid is because her family ended up suing

786
00:57:54.400 --> 00:58:01.599
the hospital in a wrongful death suit. So Chuck maintains the fact that he

787
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:06.400
loved Denise and that this was all
something that just got out of control,

788
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:10.119
and his strategy now was to align
himself in a weird way to the family,

789
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:14.840
stating that he under you know,
he understands that it was a very

790
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:21.960
grueling time for them and that the
hospital should be ashamed of themselves. When

791
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:29.679
he went on trial, his defense
also argued that Denise's death was the hospital's

792
00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:36.920
responsibility, not Chuck's, and Chuck's
original defense attorney was Ellis McCullough, and

793
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:40.159
when prosecuting. You know, when
they were prosecuting Chuck, the state's entire

794
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:46.119
argument against him was that it couldn't
have been a hospital's issue because Chuck initiated

795
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:51.719
the initial problem. And you know, he shot her, which made her

796
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.039
sustain the gunshot wound, which would
have resulted in her death if she hadn't

797
00:58:55.079 --> 00:59:00.719
received any medical care. And Chuck's
attorney it out that she didn't die at

798
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:05.320
the scene. She didn't believe to
death at the scene, and so he

799
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:07.719
says, look, there's no doubt
that this was what he called nasty wound.

800
00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:10.719
And he says, I don't want
to take away from that. And

801
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:15.639
you know, the hospital had everything
there to save her life. They knew

802
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:19.440
how to do it. It just
didn't work out. So, in attorney

803
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:24.000
McCullough's opinion, if she would have
gotten ordinary medical care, then she would

804
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:29.519
have survived. But you know,
if Denise would have survived, this would

805
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:36.320
change the maximum sentence, which would
have been a life imprisonment sentence. Now,

806
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:38.920
whether we like Chuck Thompson and whether
we like his attorney's position or not,

807
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:43.920
the reality is, y'all. You
know, our country is set up

808
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:46.079
on a constitution where everyone has the
right to defend themselves, and they have

809
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:51.000
a right to counsel. And I
hate whenever people just start hating defense attorneys

810
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:53.639
because they're doing their job. Okay, defense attorneys are not bad people.

811
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:58.599
They have a job to do and
they're upholding the constitution. That said,

812
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:04.840
sometimes they make arguments that are emotionally
upsetting, but you do have a reasonable

813
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:09.000
level of legitimacy to them. What
I hate here, though, is that

814
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:15.280
it's giving a possibility of reasonable doubt
to a jury for someone who murdered a

815
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:21.679
woman or attempted at minimum to murder
a woman, to get some leniency.

816
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:29.119
It's almost reducing Denise's loss of her
life down to it doesn't matter what put

817
01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:30.800
her in that position. It just
matters the outcome, which was death either

818
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:37.119
way. And for me, it's
hard to discount the testimony of family members

819
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:42.840
when they discussed what Denise was going
through, and you know, both victims

820
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.760
went through a lot, right.
But I have an example here from Mike's

821
01:00:46.119 --> 01:00:51.440
Mike, which is Denise's brother,
and he recounted that he remembered standing by

822
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.519
his sister's side and he spoke of
watching Denise sitting up on that gurney and

823
01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:59.599
watching her lean forward so she wouldn't
choke to death on her own blood with

824
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:04.480
her face blown open, and he
said, it's something so horrifying that it's

825
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:07.880
forever gonna be in his mind,
you know. And he said, I

826
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.800
talked to doctors and they said,
look, man, she's hurt really,

827
01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:13.039
really bad, and we're gonna take
her in in a bit, we're gonna

828
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.119
clean her up. And so he
felt like, you know, she's gonna

829
01:01:16.119 --> 01:01:20.039
be fine. So he left and
he went out, and her brother told

830
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:22.280
the family, look, she's probably
gonna survive. She you know, she's

831
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.480
likely gonna have a speech impediment,
and she's gonna have some really bad scarring

832
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.239
on her face, but she should
live. And not an hour later,

833
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.480
everything went wrong, and you know, the family went from being Okay,

834
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.320
she's probably gonna be okay to the
responsibility of having to say, look,

835
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:42.440
guys, she's dead. I was
wrong and here and her brother say.

836
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:47.159
This was just gut wrenching. And
the reality is that only the person responsible

837
01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:52.280
for her injury, which then resulted
in her death, was the man who

838
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:54.639
put a gun to her cheek,
called her a bitch, and then pulled

839
01:01:54.639 --> 01:02:00.840
the trigger. But can you even
imagine being in the brother's shoes. You

840
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:06.880
know, it's just sick. It's
so sad. And Denise couldn't speak and

841
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:12.239
say everything that happened, and neither
can Darren, so we're left to kind

842
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:17.719
of surmise what do we think happened
in that room that night. So they

843
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:24.079
brought in an expert medical witness,
and his name is Paul RadLab and I

844
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:27.840
want to explain something to you real
quick about it. An expert witness to

845
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.239
anyone who's not quite sure, an
expert witness is someone that has, you

846
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:35.400
know, the knowledge, the skill, the experienced, training, education,

847
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:39.320
they have all of that to be
able to testify. But an expert witness

848
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:44.519
gets to go a little bit further
in that they can actually form an opinion

849
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:51.559
on why or not maybe why,
but how this injury could have come to

850
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:53.480
be. So, for example,
if you have a broken bone and you

851
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:58.000
hold up an x ray, you
know you're a factual it's factual evidence.

852
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:00.000
Here is a broken bone on the
X ray. But the role of the

853
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:05.480
expert witness is that they can give
an opinion to how it likely occurred,

854
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:09.800
not just the fact that it's broken. So doctor Radlaugh's opinion was that the

855
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:15.119
bullet penetrated what was essentially the upper
airway, and it created bleeding on the

856
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:20.800
top of the entrance to the wind
pipe, which was the primary concern of

857
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:24.960
physicians. And so he further explains
that the medical records show that Denise's breathing

858
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:30.880
tube got dislodged from her windpipe and
that she ended up going without oxygen for

859
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:35.119
between five and ten minutes. And
he added, look, I think that

860
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.119
the doctors were trying to do their
best. This was a very difficult situation,

861
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:40.920
and I'm not sure that the blame
should be, you know, apportioned

862
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:45.760
to the medical personnel, because they
didn't intend any harm. He says,

863
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:51.760
the shooter, I think we can
safely say intended evil. It's also important

864
01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:57.199
to note that the response to the
hay Slip family's medical malpractice suit against that

865
01:03:57.320 --> 01:04:02.760
hospital found that the staff was not
at fault either. So while Chucky's over

866
01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:05.159
there trying to align himself with the
family and say, my god, I

867
01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:11.119
can't believe the hospital did this.
Even the lawsuit states the hospital didn't do

868
01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:15.039
this. They're not at fault.
So, you know, as time is

869
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:19.639
passing and Chuck is still in jail, another situation arises And while I'm a

870
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:25.480
huge believer in evidence and following the
evidence, I'm also a huge believer in

871
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:30.119
integrity and showing your character. Because
people say a lot of things, y'all,

872
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:34.119
but actions are even louder than these
words. And it turns out that

873
01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:43.800
six years after his conviction, Chuck
Thompson would receive a sentencing retrial, and

874
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:48.159
it all centers around the grounds that
there was a recording used in his first

875
01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:55.119
trial that should not have been used
and was deemed illegal. Do you remember

876
01:04:55.719 --> 01:05:01.480
Diane Zerna that was the friend that
Chuck ran to after the shooting, Well,

877
01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:06.280
she was called to testify in this
case, and a juror would even

878
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:12.239
make the comment that she was literally
the most frightened person this juror had ever

879
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:15.440
seen on a stand or anywhere else
for that matter. She said, Diane

880
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:19.400
was a very thin lady to begin
with, and she on the stand was

881
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:24.679
pale. She said her eyes were
as big as silver dollars, and she

882
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:30.679
was scared to death. She was
frightened almost to death of having to testify

883
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:35.119
against Chuck. And I know we
would all like to believe that, you

884
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:39.159
know, being put on the stand
is a safe place, and that testifying

885
01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.840
is just a matter, you know, a fact. But the reality is,

886
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:46.199
once you're out of the courtroom,
you're pretty much open to violence if

887
01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:51.000
someone wants to retaliate against you for
your testimony. And it seems that Diane

888
01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:58.159
Zarna was painfully aware of this and
truly believed that this was a real possibility

889
01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:01.880
for her as well as her daughter
if he was capable of such violence against

890
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:09.159
someone he supposedly cared about, what
if you were just a friend. So

891
01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:15.159
Diane Zarna was the subject of this
recording that was played in the punishment phase

892
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:23.079
of Chuck's initial trial, because while
Chuck was awaiting his trial, he was

893
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:30.079
recorded in a conversation with an undercover
officer posing as a hitman for hire.

894
01:06:31.239 --> 01:06:35.000
This case just gets more and more
deep. I mean, I hope you

895
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:39.280
have your shit kickers on. You're
gonna need waste waiters at this point.

896
01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:44.440
The shit is getting so deep.
It turns out that an individual had been

897
01:06:44.519 --> 01:06:50.960
sent in Undercoveruck's to Chuck's jail cell
and was able to secure information from Chuck

898
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:58.280
regarding his plan to get a hit
man. Chuck tells this undercover agent,

899
01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:03.119
I need you to go kill the
witnesses in my trial. Yeah, you

900
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:08.719
heard me right. This asshole breaks
into a house, kills one guy,

901
01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:15.440
shoots another woman, then admits to
it, she dies, and then tries

902
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:19.559
to get the witnesses killed. Who
can put him there and explain it all

903
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:25.679
away. I mean, anyone who
can claim at this point that Chuck is

904
01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:30.159
redeemable as a human being is a
fucking moron. Does Chuck care about anything

905
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:34.639
else? He had no remorse whatsoever, and he would have been elated to

906
01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:43.920
get rid of Diane's Zarnya. One
juror on that case even stated that this

907
01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:49.239
evidence of this setup to go have
Diane killed weighed heavily on her vote for

908
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:54.199
the death penalty. She said as
they were listening to the trial, she

909
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:55.840
was like, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait a minute,

910
01:07:55.880 --> 01:07:58.679
life in jail may not be the
right decision for this guy. I mean,

911
01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:03.079
he is capable of doing an enormous
amount of evil, and it was

912
01:08:03.159 --> 01:08:10.239
found on appeal that that recording should
not have been allowed in trial. Now,

913
01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:12.280
I could have glazed over this and
just leave it at that, but

914
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:14.559
I want to explain to you why, because I know someone's gonna want to

915
01:08:14.599 --> 01:08:16.640
know, So I'm just going to
explain it to you in brevity. Okay,

916
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.359
It all boils down to the sixth
Amendment, which guarantees a criminal defendant

917
01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:29.279
the assistance of counsel at the and
this is the keyword initiation of adversary proceedings

918
01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:38.119
against him, and it extends to
any subsequent critical stage of the proceedings against

919
01:08:38.199 --> 01:08:42.640
him. So the argument here is
that the right to counsel or the right

920
01:08:42.680 --> 01:08:46.279
to an attorney, is attached to
that criminal defendant at the time of the

921
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:56.840
interview, and this interview under cover
in jail was deemed to be a critical

922
01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:01.560
stage of the aggregate of the proceedings. So these are the facts, basically.

923
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:05.760
Deputy Matt Cox, which by the
way cracks me up because my best

924
01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:11.119
friend's husband has that same name,
all right, Deputy Matt Cox of the

925
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:15.840
Harris County Sheriff's Department testified that he
was approached by an inmate. This inmate's

926
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:21.079
name was Jack Reed, and Jack
Reed told him that Chuck was attempting to

927
01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:27.520
solicit the murder of Diane's Arnia,
who was slated to be a witness in

928
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:33.039
his capital murder case. Jack Reed
shared a cell with Chuck and he had

929
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:39.640
been told that Chuck had already arranged
for the murder by another inmate named Max

930
01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:45.680
Humphrey. Max used to be Chuck's
cellmate and had recently been discharged from the

931
01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:50.279
jail, but was still looking for
someone to retrieve a gun and give it

932
01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:55.600
to him so he could carry out
that murder for hire that Chuck had asked

933
01:09:55.680 --> 01:10:00.520
him to complete. So Deputy Cox
told Jack Reed, if he was approached

934
01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:06.439
by Chuck again, tell me,
and I want you to tell Chuck you

935
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:10.680
have someone who can get a gun
for him, who can retrieve that gun

936
01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:15.279
for him. The very next day, Jack Reid called up to the Deputy

937
01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:23.960
Cox and said, it happened,
and I told Chuck you have someone or

938
01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:29.359
I have someone that can get the
gun for him. Deputy Cox then arranged

939
01:10:29.399 --> 01:10:33.000
for a man named Gary Johnson,
who was another investigator with Harris County District

940
01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:39.760
Attorney's Office, to go undercover and
meet with Chuck to discuss the retrieval of

941
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:44.079
that weapon. And at this time
they were going to record the conversation,

942
01:10:44.399 --> 01:10:54.159
unbeknownst obviously to Chuck. So investigator
Johnson pretended to be that friend, the

943
01:10:54.199 --> 01:11:00.680
fake friend that that other inmate Reid
supposedly had contacted about getting the gun I

944
01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:01.880
know this is all over the place, but I hope you're following me.

945
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:12.479
Deputy Cox testified he gave undercover Johnson
a map that presumably identified where the gun

946
01:11:12.680 --> 01:11:17.279
could be located, and then that
undercover Johnson testified that he was wired up

947
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:25.000
and he recorded their entire meeting.
He said that Chuck brought a hand drawn

948
01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:29.720
map to the meeting, similar to
the one that Cox had given him,

949
01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:33.399
and that Chuck held it up to
the glass for him to see. It

950
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:40.560
was at that point that during Johnson's
testimony in trial, remember he was undercover

951
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:43.720
pretending to be a hit man or
could get the gun for the hit man.

952
01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:47.199
When he was in trial, his
testimony was told to the jurors,

953
01:11:47.239 --> 01:11:55.119
and then at that point the prosecution
let the tape go into evidence. Now,

954
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:59.399
the undercover Johnson was questioned and he
said, yes, I did know

955
01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:02.600
that Chuck was represented by an attorney
in the capital murder charge at the time

956
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:09.119
that I went and met with him
undercover. And he also conceded that he

957
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:14.319
had not notified said counsel, the
attorney that Chuck had of their meeting,

958
01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:16.840
nor did he tell Chuck that he
was an officer with the state. And

959
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:20.680
he had not read any warnings like
Miranda warnings to Chuck, which y'all,

960
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:24.000
he wouldn't have done it anyway,
Right, it was an undercover operation.

961
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:29.279
But this is where Chuck objected.
He didn't want the tape in evidence,

962
01:12:29.479 --> 01:12:32.479
right. He wanted that suppressed.
And his whole argument is on that sixth

963
01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:40.000
amendment that he had been denied counsel
during that meeting with Johnson, and the

964
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:45.039
initial trial court overruled that objection.
Okay, they let the jury listen to

965
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:50.079
the tape. It was played for
them, and during their tape recorded meeting,

966
01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:57.159
Chuck and undercover Johnson briefly discussed the
retrieval of the gun. Chuck then

967
01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:00.439
told undercover Johnson that there was a
witness in the case and he wanted that

968
01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:06.079
witness quote unquote taken care of.
Chuck then said he had already paid that

969
01:13:06.159 --> 01:13:11.800
other inmate, Humphrey that I mentioned
to kill the witness, but Humphrey had

970
01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:16.239
not gone through with the job.
So Chuck gave undercover Johnson the witness's address

971
01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:21.880
and described the witness and guess how
he described her to this undercover agent.

972
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:28.399
He described her as a mother with
a fourteen year old daughter and a husband.

973
01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:35.319
He described her car. He informed
the undercover investigator that she was usually

974
01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:40.359
home in the mornings after her daughter
went to school. He described her house

975
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:44.720
as a Victorian style house, and
he even described her mailbox as a black

976
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:48.319
and white spotted one, kind of
like a cow. And then he followed

977
01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:51.239
up with he promised that when he
got out of jail, he would pay

978
01:13:51.359 --> 01:14:00.000
undercover Johnson fifteen hundred dollars for killing
the witness. Now I want you to

979
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:01.680
I want to make this note to
you as well. Look, the police

980
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:06.239
have an invested interest in going through
this investigation process, right, and even

981
01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:11.239
though formal charges had already been filed
against Chuck, they still had an interest

982
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:15.159
in investigating this new or additional crime. Right he was charged with the murders

983
01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:21.039
of his ex girlfriend and her new
boyfriend. He was not charged yet with

984
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:30.760
murder for hire. So investigations you
know of this type or of crimes,

985
01:14:30.279 --> 01:14:35.680
these these criminals may still have to
remain under surveillance because even though they may

986
01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:41.960
already be under indictment, they're still
trying to commit further further crimes. But

987
01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:47.680
without the tape, the jury wouldn't
have known that Chuck made plans with the

988
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:55.159
undercover to kill the witness in addition
to retrieving the gun. They would have

989
01:14:55.199 --> 01:15:00.159
only heard that read that first inmate
had reported to the authorities that Chuck was

990
01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:04.199
attempting to hire that other inmate,
Humphrey, to kill the witnesses. I

991
01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:08.000
know this is getting really muddy,
but you got to understand how this is

992
01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:13.800
working. And so the state had
emphasized Chuck's taped conversation with undercover detective Johnson

993
01:15:14.119 --> 01:15:19.079
in their closing arguments. I want
you to think about this. It shows

994
01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:30.039
that Chuck is a horrible human being
at best. He literally identified Diane for

995
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:34.640
you know, wanting her to be
killed by describing her fourteen year old soon

996
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:41.680
to be motherless daughter. If you
hadn't heard this as yourself, you probably

997
01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:45.319
wouldn't believe it right. That tape
was so important. It was just mind

998
01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:48.560
boggling that someone has this level of
evil in them. But y'all, it

999
01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:56.199
goes even deeper than that. Every
time that Chuck threatened anyone, y'all,

1000
01:15:56.199 --> 01:15:59.600
he followed through with it. What
did he tell that undercover Gary Johnson?

1001
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:01.720
He said, I am a man
of my word. When I got out,

1002
01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:09.239
you got a free one coming.
He also tried to frame the undercover

1003
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:13.279
Gary Johnson, even though he was
an innocent guy. If you think about

1004
01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:17.079
it, he tried to have Gary
Johnson go get that gun and give it

1005
01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:21.880
to somebody else, which had been
Humphrey, so that that person would be

1006
01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:28.600
the one caught with the weapon and
then would be framed for the original to

1007
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:35.600
murders if you think about it now. He was given that retrial based on

1008
01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:40.319
all of this that I just told
you about that recording, and the jury

1009
01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:45.600
foreman in that penalty retrial, her
name was Kristin Mertens. You know,

1010
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:49.039
they were not trying to decide guilt
or innocence. They were trying to decide

1011
01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:53.319
his punishment and whether or not to
give him a life sentence or whether he

1012
01:16:53.359 --> 01:16:59.439
should still get the death penalty.
And the defense did target pretty heavily on

1013
01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:04.199
the fact that that Denise, you
know, died six days later in the

1014
01:17:04.279 --> 01:17:10.279
hospital. But to this jury foreman
Kristin I just mentioned, she says that

1015
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:12.880
that was absolutely irrelevant to her.
I mean, he shot her in the

1016
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:17.520
face. He murdered somebody first,
right, he murdered Darren. So to

1017
01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:21.279
her credit, I wanted to point
this out to Kristen believed that Darren was

1018
01:17:21.319 --> 01:17:25.880
completely lost in this case, and
I have to agree with her. You

1019
01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:29.000
know, his death wasn't brought up
as much as Denise's, and that's sick.

1020
01:17:29.319 --> 01:17:31.479
Imagine being his family. Oh,
you know, he was just collateral

1021
01:17:31.560 --> 01:17:36.439
damage in a domestic case. It's
kind of what it feels like. And

1022
01:17:39.640 --> 01:17:45.399
even with the removal of the hit
for hire audio in that second you know,

1023
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.279
in the penalty phase of that second
one, the jurors still believed wholeheartedly

1024
01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:54.319
that Chuck went there to kill Darren
and he went there to kill Denise.

1025
01:17:55.199 --> 01:17:59.720
So even after all of that,
Thompson was sentenced to death for a second

1026
01:17:59.760 --> 01:18:04.159
time. He you know, he
is narcissistic. He likes the attention that

1027
01:18:04.199 --> 01:18:14.279
he gets. And one juror on
that second jury was so shook by Chuck's

1028
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:19.920
ability to hurt others without an ounce
of remorse that she even asked before they

1029
01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:25.239
handed down their finding, is there
any way that you know this guy's going

1030
01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:29.079
to be able to get out of
prison because jurors' names can be found.

1031
01:18:30.359 --> 01:18:32.800
Tell me this guy is not scary. When even the jurors who are obligated

1032
01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:35.640
to be there under no fault of
their own, and they had nothing to

1033
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:39.680
do with this case other than being
told you have to come. You know,

1034
01:18:39.880 --> 01:18:44.399
listen, they're afraid for their safety. If this is not telling you

1035
01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:49.159
the level of scary, this guy
is an incredibly dangerous man with a proven

1036
01:18:49.239 --> 01:18:54.640
history of no remorse for killing people. Is resentenced to the death penalty,

1037
01:18:54.880 --> 01:19:00.520
so everyone can relax. But then
four more days go by and here's the

1038
01:19:00.560 --> 01:19:10.800
headline. Search goes nationwide for escaped
Texas inmate. After six years on death

1039
01:19:10.880 --> 01:19:15.079
row, Chuck Thompson was able to
trick his way out of a holding cell

1040
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:21.560
using a fake ID and his court
clothes. I'm telling y'all, this man

1041
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:27.239
is cunning. He is manipulative,
and he is scheming. Now. The

1042
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:30.319
good news is he wasn't out long
though, but he still was out,

1043
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:33.640
and that's a pretty scary thing.
The level of manipulation this man has to

1044
01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:39.520
be able to walk off of death
row is utterly astounding, and it lends

1045
01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:45.680
itself to what Darren was unknowingly dealing
with and what Denise was so desperately trying

1046
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:50.079
to get away from. But I
want to add something here. Every time

1047
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:54.359
y'all know I used to work at
Angola. Every time that people came to

1048
01:19:54.359 --> 01:19:57.960
go on tours there, I would
tell them all the same thing. We're

1049
01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:00.560
about to go back here and I'm
going to show you everything that goes on.

1050
01:20:00.920 --> 01:20:03.159
But I want to point something out
to y'all before we get back there.

1051
01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:06.960
You're gonna hear some sad stories and
how all of these people, these

1052
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.760
inmates were just caught up wrong.
But I never want you to forget something.

1053
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:16.840
And that's the first three letters in
the word convict. They're c n

1054
01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:24.800
con These are not inept people working
in these prisons, y'all. These are

1055
01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:30.319
decent people trying to overcome extreme evil. And unfortunately, good people don't always

1056
01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:34.880
understand or see the level of manipulation
and tactics that evil does in the moment

1057
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:40.159
that it's happening now. He was
free for four days before being recaptured in

1058
01:20:40.920 --> 01:20:49.399
drum roll, please Louisiana. And
it's it's like the bad guy that just

1059
01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:54.760
won't go away. You know,
it's bad enough. He murdered this poor

1060
01:20:54.760 --> 01:20:58.600
guy's mom. I mean, this
is like the bad guy that just won't

1061
01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:01.319
go away. It's bad enough that
a young boy, if you remember,

1062
01:21:01.359 --> 01:21:06.800
Denise had a son. You know, this chuck murdered his mother. He

1063
01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:12.199
then makes a decent shot at getting
off of death row by claiming, you

1064
01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:15.319
know, the hospital did wrong,
not him, and then when it's all

1065
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:20.000
set and done, he manages to
walk out on his own accord of prison.

1066
01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:24.439
But I was tickled a little bit
though. There was an interview that

1067
01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:28.319
was done by Wade, Denise's son, and it was done when he was

1068
01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:30.880
older, right, because of the
years had gone by, and there was

1069
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:32.600
one thing that stood out to him
when Chuck escaped, and this is what

1070
01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:39.800
he said. Wade said, it
goes to this great plot to escape and

1071
01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:44.279
succeeds, and then he gets caught
because he gets drunk at a gas station

1072
01:21:44.359 --> 01:21:47.760
in Louisiana. You're telling me he
hopped on a train. He did all

1073
01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:51.520
this stuff. He managed to walk
out of jail, but it gets drunk

1074
01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:59.239
and they catch him at that moment. What an idiot. He also added,

1075
01:21:59.319 --> 01:22:01.680
it doesn't sup prize me at all
that he was able to talk his

1076
01:22:01.760 --> 01:22:08.720
way out of anything. He was
charming and cunning and quite the artists of

1077
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:13.119
that manipulation. I'm trying to hammer
it home to y'all this episode. People

1078
01:22:13.279 --> 01:22:16.560
who are in abuse situations are not
stupid. Prison officials are not stupid.

1079
01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:25.039
These are evil people playing evil games, and further evidence of this manipulation is

1080
01:22:25.079 --> 01:22:29.560
seen in Chuck's response to his own
escape. Rather than taken accountability for the

1081
01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:35.680
wrong thing done yet again, he
shifts the light to his behavior aside from

1082
01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:42.640
the escape, and he points out
that he's obviously debunked the idea that he's

1083
01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:45.800
a continued threat to society and that
when he was running around the free world

1084
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:50.640
for those four days, he mentions
he walked past little old ladies in front

1085
01:22:50.640 --> 01:22:55.760
of shopping centers getting out of their
cars, and he didn't carjack them.

1086
01:22:56.239 --> 01:23:00.640
He didn't rob anybody, he didn't
assault anybody, and he didn't hurt anybody,

1087
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:06.479
even though the prosecution kept making the
claims that he was dangerous, talk

1088
01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:13.319
about a sociopath. He also goes
so far as to claim in his own

1089
01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:17.279
interview that Denise probably would have gone
to visit him in prison because she knows

1090
01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:23.920
his actions weren't intentional. That day, the very man that called her a

1091
01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:28.840
bitch put a gun to her face
and pulled the trigger, resulting ultimately in

1092
01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:33.279
her death as well as murdering her
boyfriend, has the audacity to sit and

1093
01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:38.119
claim that she, if she were
alive today, would come and visit him

1094
01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:45.800
in prison. Get the fuck out
of here. The incredible Texas Death Row

1095
01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:51.119
inmate number nine nine nine three zero
six is still on death row to this

1096
01:23:51.359 --> 01:23:58.880
day, where he awaits execution.
When asked about his impending execution, he's

1097
01:23:58.960 --> 01:24:02.560
quoted as saying, I couldn't wish
for somebody to die for twenty years.

1098
01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:06.840
I couldn't hate somebody for that long. Well that's awesome, Chucky. Considering

1099
01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:11.960
you didn't hate somebody that long,
you made the decision to end their lives

1100
01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:15.920
within hours of the argument that y'all
got in. Because you were so caught

1101
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:18.800
up in your hate and failure to
control another person that you wouldn't took it

1102
01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:24.319
into your own hands. I guess
you wouldn't want to sit there and hate

1103
01:24:24.319 --> 01:24:29.399
someone for twenty years on death row
like you. This is a true statum

1104
01:24:29.439 --> 01:24:33.800
about to give you. Did you
know there are more animal shelters in the

1105
01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:41.479
US than there are shelters for victims
of domestic violence. That's a true stat

1106
01:24:41.560 --> 01:24:48.079
y'all. And considering the animal Charles
Thompson has proven himself to be, he

1107
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:53.399
deserves to be treated like one.
He still gets the basics, though he

1108
01:24:53.439 --> 01:24:59.600
gets his meals he gets his blanket, he gets his medications. But I

1109
01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:03.960
mean true talk y'all. He deserves
to be caged, but unfortunately for him,

1110
01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:19.439
he's at a shelter that kills HM, HM