Unraveling Darkness: John White

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

0:51 Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's kJ here. What's going on? I'm back for another episode of Unspeakable? Oh my goodness, am I a busy woman? I'm y'all. I cannot even begin to tell you all of the events that I have coming up that I will be speaking at and I've been invited to, including the week that this will drop. On Saturday, I'll be at that marchha in the park in Livingston Parish, right at North Park in Denham Springs. So if you're gonna be out and about, y'all should come by there. I'll have a whole bunch of merch set up, and I've got some new shirts that are glittery ladies. They're glittery, they're so nice, and I got a bunch of stuff that'll be there, and i'd love to take pictures with you and say hey. So I will be there as a special guest, so come in and say hey to me. But look, I got some shout outs I got to do today, and y'all, I had to go down a little rabbit hole because I didn't know where the heck one of these was from.

1:46 And it's gonna be miss Renee. Damon. Now, look, I'm country as they come, apparently, because I was gonna say she's from Sequel, washing Ten, but then I was like, I wonder if that's right, So I googled it and it says it's pronounced Squim, Washington, so I hope I'm getting that right, miss Renee. I'm so glad to have you join. And then I even kept researching because I'm a total nerd, and I read that it's the Lavender Capital and that squim means a place for going to shoot, so I don't know what we're shooting, but hey, girl, I'm so glad to have you, and I just learned about where you're from and everything. Then, right, here in Denham Springs, Louisiana, Miss Lindsay Stoltz, Hey Lindsay girl, you my neighbor. Huh, we're right here by me, so so glad to have you, as well as Miss Ashley Willingham from Angola, Louisiana. Hey, Ashley, that's pretty cool, no Lie, I'm guessing you work there. I don't know if you do or not. Maybe send me a PM and let me know, but glad to have you, as well as Miss Casey Joe Simms from Colorado City, Texas. And Casey, I think I spoke to you online on Facebook recently, So Hey, Casey Joe, my mother in law love to call me Kelly Joe, so I kind of like that. And then I've got Janie Rivera from Indianapolis, Indiana, as well as Charlotte Upton from Hamilton, Alabama. And then last but not least, I have to say hey to Miss Deborah Mays from Hendersonville, Tennessee. From all over the place, they joined my crime family and my Vigilanti groups, and I'm so so excited to

3:19 have each and every one of you. And then this morning I was just tickled as I'll get out because I had somebody message me from the UK that was telling me hello, and I was like, hey girl, how are you? And we want to know where Kate is. Have y'all been watching that drama? Where is Kate? No one has seen her in the media. It might be my next podcast, Kate. If you're out there, your Royal Highness, call me. Let kJ know you're okay, because we're looking for you in the photographs. All Right. This episode that I have today, y'all, it pissed me the hell off right in it, So I want you to pay attention to it because this one just it ain't right. It just ain't right. But it caught my attention at first because of one of the people in the story's name. His name is John White, and that happens to be my stepmom's brother's name. And I was like, oh, hell, my family done messed up. But it's not him.

4:13 It's a totally different story. But this one's gonna take place in twenty twelve. But before I get into all the details of the twenty twelve case, I'm gonna have to go take you way back to nineteen eighty all right, four years before I was even born. Okay, to get started and I chose this case purposefully in that it encompasses why I'm admittedly jaded when it comes to the idea of complete reform for anyone who has any type of sex offense in their repertoire. Okay, now, data even backs up my hesitancy in that, all right, according to the US Office of Justice. And you know, I go look up that ata and statistics because I want to come from a place of not only experience, but also you know, academia.

5:04 It does matter. And the studies found a thirty percent recidivism rate at year ten of offenders released from prison. But and this is a huge but to me, the year twenty five, if people are out twenty five years, the reoffending rate increases to fifty two percent. And that matters to me because that means the more time that someone has once they are released from a sex offense, the more likely they are to reoffend. If you're looking at the data. So I want you to remember that roughly half of those that are released from prison after a sexual offense will do it again. They will go back to prison. And we as a society, y'all, we can't ignore this because by doing so, we create the opportunity and near guarantee that more victims are going to be created. So case in point, this is going to start with a guy named John White, the most vanilla name I've ever said in the history of storytelling. But he started out as a promising person.

6:18 Okay. John was born on May twentieth, nineteen fifty seven, and he was adored by his mother and his sister, Christine, and they grew up in Augusta, Michigan. Very close was he to his little sister. He played sports, you know. He was just the kid that his little sister looked up to him. And he grew up in a loving home and he was raised to work hard. Matter of fact, his daddy was a police chief, then a fire chief, and eventually a mayor. So that should tell you the caliber of man that John White was being raised by. Great examples were set for him in regards to being a man. But his mouth, not the daddy I'm talking about. John. His mouth was a problem and it would continue to get him in trouble. He did stupid things in high school, y'all, Like he would yell, you know, he opened the girl's locker room door, and he would yell in there and upset the girls. And he was known to be a liar. And on top of being a liar, he would never take responsibility for his actions, which sucks. Okay, it's one thing to be a liar, but like if a kid will tell me, oh, yeah, I messed up, you know, fed up? Okay, cool, at least you're taking accountability for it. Not John. His dad was the disciplinarian and he would he would spank the kids. And what was crazy about that was that John was rather flat emotionally and he didn't seem to get worked up much by a spanking.

7:48 But John was rather flat emotionally, and he didn't seem to get worked up much, you know, even even my own You know, kids like, I mean, you spank somebody, they get pissed off. Nobody likes to get a spanking. That's the point of the spanking. And then you're gonna tear somebody's butt up for misbehaving and they're just flat about it and it doesn't bother them at all. You know. That's kind of weird. But he did, though, have flashes of anger that would come through from time to time, but it wasn't anything that was over the top. You know, it wasn't necessarily something that made people, you know, freak out about the way that he behaved, but he did have these flashes of anger that got people's attention. So he had a job, for example, and his job was that he would do newspaper delivery, and both he and his sister had their own little routes that they would go run and deliver their newspapers. And his sister was actually attacked by a dog one time on her route, and then the next day the dog was missing. It turned out that that dog had been brought out into the woods and shot. Now, you know, maybe in response to attacking John's sister or something along those lines. People thought, okay, well the dog must to been you know, shot by the owner because it attacked the kid, and you know, they don't want to have any more trouble with the family. But I mean, look here, let me tell you something. I ain't shooting my dog regardless of what he does. If my weeded dog attacks you, in my opinion, you deserve it, right. He's a precious angel from heaven and everyone who he has

9:20 ever bitten deserved it. I'm gonna live and die on that hill apologies to my children, but he cannot be blamed. You know what I'm saying. I would get to take a loan out, and I would loan him my gun and my car if he asked for it. But this poor dog was shot. Now, luckily his sister did recover, and you know, life kind of went on, but it was like, man, you know, you know, I just couldn't believe somebody would do that to their animal. So through his late teens in his early twenties, right, John's resume was kind of impressive and included serving in the Navy. He even traveled to Japan for two year years and then he came back and he worked as a long haul trucker in the seventies and the eighties, and he really seemed to be fulfilling that American dream of service to country and hard work to get the things that you want in life. And looking at him, y'all, he looked like you're everyday white guy, all right. He stood five foot eleven, he was roughly one hundred and eighty pounds. He wasn't a super imposing guy.

10:24 Just looking at him, he did have kind of a big nose for his face, and his ears do kind of stick out, you know. All in all though, if you looked at I mean, just looked like your typical dude right walking around. But in the year nineteen eighty, John was twenty two years old and he was living in Battle Creek, Michigan, and he also had met another milestone in his life. He had gotten married. And that kind of came about because he had gotten a girl pregnant. But they decided that, hey, we need to get married. So they settled into their home life and they were young and in love and they were just trying to get their lives stone guarded. Their marriage was not exactly perfect though. Okay, they were young, and John did like to dabble in drugs a little bit, and his drug of choice was marijuana. From everything that I researched, I didn't see that he was like doing cocaine or anything off the table, but you know, I just saw marijuana. But in nineteen eighty something kind of weird happened. That's when he invited over their seventeen year old neighbor and her name was Teresa Etherton, and the reason he had invited her over was that she was kind of interested in this stock car racetrack that he had set up, and he had invited her over to come check it out, and at some point they went down in the basement where they were going to smoke weed together and talk cars, according to his wife, which is strange to me as well, because as a wife, I don't think I'd exactly be down with that. You know, I also have a

11:58 problem with a twenty two year old old married man inviting over a seventeen year old female while the wife is home, but only hanging out with the teenager and doing drugs. But hey, you know, different strokes, different folks whatever. So, as I mentioned right, their home had a basement, which is not something I'm familiar with in South Louisiana. Matter of fact, basements sounds scary as hell to me. All I can think about is Kevin and home alone and him having to go down in that basement, and basements just scream Shit's going to go bad to me. But I'm sure my ignorant, you know, my ignorance is showing right now. But they went down in that basement, and they had been down there for a little while when next thing, John, you know, John's wife knows, John comes flying up the stairs. He's freaking out and he's screaming that Teresa had attacked him with a knife. So why in the world did she attack you? You know, what is going on that His wife is screaming, what is going on? Why did she attack you? And he turns around and he's like, for my weed, for his and he had to fight her off.

13:03 She had gone so crazy and he ended up stabbing that seventeen year old girl in the process of the fight over the weed. Well, that sounded a bit extreme, even to his sister. That sounded a bit extreme, right, But his sister, you know, heard the story, and she quickly, you know, dismissed any questions she had about the situation when she actually saw him, because she asked him what happened, and he explained, as before you know, that they had gone down in the basement and then she attacked him. And he even showed his sister the cuts on his hands, which backed up to some extent what he was claiming. John, though, would eventually be arrested and charged for attacking the girl. She would survive that stabbing, but John's family was show that he was being charged. I mean, how unfair just because he's a guy, he's got to take the brunt of this attack, and he's going to be charged. When she attacked him, it just it wasn't right. But when it came down time for the trial, John's sister would become a bit concerned because when she goes to support her brother at this trial, she's like, my god, John's demeanor changed when court was in session, and not only did his demeanor change while in

14:37 court, the testimony that seventeen year old Teresa gave was quite different from what she was expecting it to be. To start, his sister, john sister said his eyes looked dark during the trial, and his sister knew him very well, and he showed a very different day meaner while he was listening to that seventeen year old girl give her testimony. Maybe he was angry at being charged with something of which he was actually the victim, you know, or maybe his disdain for his attacker was shining through. You know, it wasn't quite apparent what was happening, but you know, John's sister didn't know at first what she was looking at, but for certain she was looking at something very different in that courtroom, and the trial revealed something totally different from the story that was so convincingly told to John's sister, Christine. I mean, Teresa's story was very different, matter of fact. It's the discrepancies and the details that are so alarming. Without warning, John had attacked the teenage girl, stabbing her fifteen times and then choking her. And what was found in the trial was that that first stab was from behind. He attacked her from behind as well, you know, as landing that blade right under her right

16:14 shoulder blade. I'm assuming, because she's a teenager and she's a girl, that she was smaller than him, So I'm envisioning a downward swipe from the right hand from behind her, which certainly suggests that this was a blitz attack on an unsuspecting team. And even creepier is the fact that when she testified that when she turned around to face him, you know, just in shock and utter surprise, y'all, he was smiling at her as he was stabbing her, eyes wide open and smiling at her. Real quick I wanted to tell y'all this too. Did you know that there's actually like academic literature on this very thing? Yeah, there is, Okay, psychologists call this the Doucian smile, it's not. It's spelled du c h E n n E if you want to look it up, and most people consider it the sole indicator of true enjoyment. And the name from this comes. It's like a nod to the guy who studied emotional expression by stimulating various facial muscles with an electrical current. Okay, so hear me out, real quick euphoria or happiness, right, it's linked to smiling, to pure joy, right, when you are genuinely happy. Have you ever seen a picture you didn't know someone took a view when you're actually like elated and you're happy, and it's always a good picture because it's a genuine smile. You're so excited. Right, But remember how his sister had said his eyes had turned dark in court.

17:48 Well that was interesting to me, and so I was doing some research and I ended up on a site called bipolar dot com and it was explaining mania. And I had been thinking about the fact that he was stabbing her and the excitement it must have brought him, you know, I e that euphoric mania. And that's when I saw this psychologist talking about the belief that eyes get darker. Literally, eyes get darker during dysphoric mania, and she mentioned how she started asking her clients that suffered from this. She started asking her clients to notice I changes, okay, and ask their loved ones when they're in manic episodes this dysphoric mania, look at them and see if you see eye changes in them. And she said that she had many stories of how dysphoric mania turned the eyes black. There is something to it. I call it shark eyes. I know, I've called it that on other episodes before that people just look different. So that psychologist went to an eye doctor and asked about it, and she said that the eye doctor said, oh, and this is a direct quote. Oh, I'm not surprised by that.

19:11 It's documented that adrenaline can make the pupil take over the eye, and mania sounds like it's something to do with adrenaline. So I would think the eye is the same color, but the pupil is huge, and that is what creates that all dark black eye that people say they see when someone is having that dyspork mania. And that was like an AHA moment for me. It seems like he smiled out of euphoria, that happiness he was having with stabbing her. But the eyes in court they were dark, right, according to the sister, And maybe that's because he was pissed, which was that dysphoria he was feeling. I don't know, man, it made so much sense to me. So when you're in euphoria, right, the eyes get big.

20:02 When you're dysphoric, they get dark, all right. So going back to the trial, then adding literal insult to injury, Teresa, that teenager also detailed to police that John, and this is a direct quote, wiped her mouth off and kissed her after stabbing her, and then he held her hand and he said to her direct quote, you're gonna go now, and I'm real sorry you had to go like this, but what the fuck? You're just a woman? End quote. What in the world. While the discrepancies were large, right, Christine John's sister, she still loved her brother, and she was like, I just want this whole mess to be resolved, whatever the case may be. And when it was all said and done, John was convicted of attempted murder, to which he promptly apologized for.

21:00 Well, in that's special, he tried to kill someone, but he's sorry about it. Not only that, he made a statement to the effect of people have told me I have a problem, but I didn't listen to them nor actually realize it until now. And then he kind of pandered a bit to the court and he asked for help rather than prison time. I need help, right, I'm sick, I need help, and I'm sorry for everything that I've done. Well. The judge then turned around and sentenced him to five to ten years in prison and recommended that he get mental health counseling in prison. Now, the poor girl whom he almost killed but was spared only, according to the judge, by the grace of God, she was confident that he wouldn't be able to hurt her or anyone else, and she says that she found a lot of solace in his conviction. Well, she's better than me, because ten years ain't enough for trying to kill me, you know what I'm saying. Sorry, not sorry, But that solace that she felt wouldn't last long because John would file an appeal, and y'all, the asshole would win. He would win the appeal his complaint and his appeal was based around the fact that he says his attorney failed to raise an insanity

22:30 defense. Not only did he win, but after trying to stab a teenage girl to death, he was then promptly released from prison in nineteen eighty three. He had only served two years for fifteen stab wounds and attempting to kill a young girl. Two years of probation was also attached, along with mandatory mines health treatment, and he was on his way free to do as he pleased. Now, I know someone out there who's listened to this is wondering, well, you know about this insanity claim and how could that even qualify in this case? So I wanted to address it, so I don't leave you with any questions. Right. So this was in the nineteen eighties, don't forget that, and the rules of insanity claims and please have changed since then, specifically the Insanity Defense Reform Act of nineteen eighty four, if you're listening to the to this timeframe, just a year later, and that was signed into law by President Reagan, which made it significantly more difficult to obtain a verdict of not guilty only by reason of insanity, because it shifted the burden of proof to the defendant to prove that you know, there was clear and convincing evidence that he or she was legally insane at the time of the crime. Not the prosecution, but when John's case took place, this was not an effect. Two years in prison doesn't seem like long at all,

24:03 right, But while there John had really dug in his heels and he tried to make some progress. He actually put pen to paper, and he decided to write a book about his life. His sister, Christine was very intrigued by this, and she decided that she was going to read the book herself. And one chapter really caught her attention in that John discussed that dog attack on her when she was young during her paper route. And you know, that's sweet. It's sweet that that incident had touched his heart enough and he remembered enough about it to write about it. So she sits down to read this, and the sadness about her attack wasn't actually the main topic, but rather the fact that he admitted to shooting that dog himself. He detailed how he lie in wait in a field wanting that dog. He was waiting for the owners to release it. He steadied his gun and he pulled the trigger, and Christine was stunned by this admission because John had never mentioned it their entire lives in any conversation. Ever, they always assumed the owners had killed the dog. It just didn't sit right with her either, But it was so long ago, and John had claimed to change in so many ways that

25:36 she was willing to just kind of let bygones be bygones, or Hattie see. Just a year or so later, his victim, Teresa, was standing in line at a store when a familiar voice began to fill the air. She turned, y'all and was stunned to see John White standing there in the flesh And what was he doing smiling at her? I've never attempted to stab someone to death, but I can almost with a thousand percent certainty, say that I would not remain near them at any point once released, specifically after having been convicted of doing such a thing, Nor would I smile at them.

26:22 The circumstances alone would warrant that a smile. Is it wanted by her? Nor is it respectful to do such a thing. I mean, like read the room, John, You know what I'm saying. It's disgusting and it's taunting in my opinion. And on that note that John, remember had told Teresa that she was quote just a woman before he expected her to die. He also reportedly referred to women that he met in Japan, remember how he went on a military tour. He reportedly referred to those women as lot lizards, lot lizards. Okay, and these women that he was referring to were actually working girls. They were prostitutes that he would use for money.

27:10 And his friends that were serving with him also said that when he was done with them, he always claimed that he threw them in dumpsters. So was he calling them trash or was he serious? Because looking back on it, some eyebrows were now raised, considering he had just tried to stab a teenager to death. There was no proof of this, nor was he ever charged with anything related to these claims. But one wonders, or I do, at least if there was a rash of women in Japan found in dumpsters around that time. But whether truth or just talking trash, John clearly does not respect women, okay. So time continued to move forward, and after so much drama in their lives, John and his marriage to his first wife had suffered immensely. John wasn't one to stay down though, and he actually had found himself a new love interest. It was now around nineteen ninety four when John and Vicky Sue Wall began their affair. John was working a maintenance job at a textile company and that was where he and Vicky Sue originally met.

28:19 Eventually, their flirtation turned into an all out affair. Still very much married, though he continued to play the role of husband and father. You know, he was a father now because he had two children, and he continued to play house. He was still sleeping with his wife, okay, as well as this new love interest, in that she was pregnant with their third child. So he's got a lover. He's got two children, a wife, and a baby on the way. She was still John's wife, but she was certainly not his lover. Vicky Sue was the center of his attention outside of the home. John at one point even confided in his sister how much he thought of Vicky Sue, even professing to his sister that he was actually in love with her. But his sister didn't want to hear of it.

29:12 She didn't want any part of it. John, you're a married man, right, You're a father of three kids. This is not right. You need to cut it off. Unfortunately for John, though, this relationship would never be you know, it would never become more than just a side chick, because in July of nineteen ninety four, twenty six year old Vicky Sue went missing. Her disappearance seemed to affect John immensely. He began to have these outbursts. He was in emotional turmoil, so bad at one point he even was threatening to kill himself. Okay, he was eight up with the fact that Vicky Sue went missing, and I'm sure his wife was just ecstatic about this. So with Vicky miss you know, police began to investigate, and she needed to be found and soon. But the more time that passed, the worst we all know the chances of finding her alive would be.

30:11 She was only twenty six years old, she was young. So police questioned the obvious person who may have had a reason to make her go away, which was John, the very man she was having an affair with. So police picked him up and they brought him down to the station for some questioning. And it didn't take long for John to just come clean about the affair. He readily admitted to stepping out in his marriage and that he was very much sexually active with Vicky Sue. So police asked him, you know, John, when was the last time that you have seen her or heard from her? And he said it was when he picked her up in his truck at a grocery store. He said, we got together, we had sexual relations, and then I dropped her back off. So this was a start. This was great. So police went and they obtained this surveillance video from that grocery store parking lot, which did in fact show Vicky Sue Wall getting into a black pickup truck. The man with her was also able to be seen. He had a beard, and the time of the pickup was around three am. After she got into that truck. Though she was never returned to that grocery store, that video and John's account of picking her up and dropping her off were the last time anyone ever saw her alive, truth be told, The police flat out did not believe John's story. It was just too convenient, right, And she never reappeared at that store or anywhere

31:42 else for that matter. So police start, you know, their wheel start turning. Did did John's wife find out and he had to get rid of Vicky? Or had he dropped her off somewhere else other than the grocery store. You know, where was she? The fact was that there was little to know evidence pointing to murder, and most importantly, y'all, there was no body, so really no one knew where or where or what had happened to her. So police were unable to charge John with anything. Maybe poor behavior, you know what I'm saying, as far as cheating on your wife, But cheating is not illegal, frowned upon. So Vicky Sue's family would continue to suffer for six more weeks before her body would actually be found, and she was in such bad shape once her body was found that dental records were the only way that she was positively identified. Now where was her body?

32:39 It was only two miles from the grocery store where she and John were seen getting into his truck. So she was so badly decomposed, y'all. In those six weeks police weren't even able to determine what her cause of death was. The state in which she was left, though, was pretty telling. The attack on her was sexual in nature. The killer had stripped her naked except for a shirt and a brawl which both had been pulled up around her neck, exposing her breasts, and she had been thrown out like trash. She was dumped in a rural area to hopefully rode away into nothing.

33:23 The location of her body in proximity to that grocery store, along with knowing she had gotten into the car with John, you know, all of that combined, the pressure was once again applied to him and what he may know or you know, was he hiding something? And after more questioning, John finally cracked, admitting that this whole situation was a misunderstanding and he was a scared man. See John explained that Vicky Sue was a woman with an eclectic sexual prowess. She was into really really rough sex and part of that which she loved to be strangled. So as they engaged in what she wanted, he accidentally choked her to death, and he said it was horrible. He was devastated, and he was scared and unsure of what to do. He panicked and he dumped her body, the woman he professed to be in love with. Right he was professing his love to her, He just threw her naked body out to rot and to be seen by anyone who stumbled upon her.

34:42 No flowers to mark his beloved's final resting place, nor a ride to the hospital, or not even a call to nine one one. She was thrown out in a rural field for the animals. Two feast on shirt pulled up, private areas exposed. Wow, can't y'all feel the love he must have had for her? What a misunderstanding. Now call me a meanie weenie, but his next move sounds rather strategic to me. He then immediately went and confessed the affair to his wife. I think that he was hoping she would be so mad about the affair and so pissed off that another woman was sleeping with her husband that just maybe she might keep her mouth shut. Considering the vixen right who had been romancing her husband was out of the picture.

35:45 Maybe VICKI wanted more and he had to make her go away. Who knows how he spun that story, but wow, poor fella accidentally strangled his lover to death and then runs home and tells his wife about it. Not buying it, I don't think that he felt remorse. But if you're not already completely in love with John, then I'll just I'm just gonna keep on going here after saying is peace, John clammed up and he refused to talk to the police anymore. He also refused to take a light detector test. Y'all. They're not even admissible in court. Okay, it's just kind of a strategy police use, but it certainly shows a nervous man's autonomic reflexes right when pressured. And I don't think John wanted that. Science is tough. You know, science is a bitch, ain't it. Police now had a body, but they needed more to build the case of murder, so a luminol test of his pickup truck was done. It was completely you know, completed throughout the truck, and it would come back positive for blood in multiple areas.

37:00 So just like a juror, y'all, I try to think of the chances of that happening for non violence related scenarios. Okay, I have been married for thirteen years, and I have been a passenger princess for at least twelve years and three hundred and sixty days of our marriage. Okay. That said, I'm in my husband's truck a lot, and I have never bled in his truck. Even if I had a bobo on my leg, it would be the quantity that would matter, okay, because the quantity that was left in his truck is not indicative of a bobo. They had only been a faring, if that's a word. They'd only been a fairing for a short while. Why would there be this much blood in his truck. Other than the blood, Okay, police didn't have much else in terms of evidence.

37:59 So at this point though, getting the conviction was more important than the exact charge considering his lack of evidence. Right, So a plea deal was offered and agreed to. John agreed to plead no contest to involuntary manslaughter involuntary manslaughter, and as a result, he was sentenced to eight to fifteen years in prison. He was shipped off to prison, and that is the end of the story. Yeah, fucking right. You know that there's more. There's always more. So while in prison, John White had become a new man because now his second go round, he had had a complete come to Jesus moment. He believed that he had done wrong and he should be accountable for the wrong he had done. So prison ministry became his new passion and he would eventually work his way up to becoming a prison minister himself. So what do inmates who minister do behind bars? Okay, I know some people may not know this, so I wanted to tell you. They teach the Bible, they provide counseling to other inmates, and sometimes they'll lead worship, you know, things of that nature. So I'm a Christian, as many of my listeners know. So I love that God's moving behind prison walls.

39:29 And I know this is true because I've seen it myself. I've seen men who went to prison long ago, some before I was even born, that have been released. They're older, more mature, but they're also changed to the core. So transformation is real for those that truly want it, which is through, in my opinion, a very very long prison term. They go to prison and they have to have almost a lifetime to experience real change. John would go on to serve twelve years in prison, and then he was released in two thousand and seven. Now I know my meaning weaniness is about to start showing again. But something that happened while he was still behind bars was a bit of concern to me. The self professed changed man and minister was still under the care of a prison psychologist while he was behind bars, and during his documented sessions with that psychologist, he would be open and honest about his mental health, which included are you ready his ongoing fantasies of killing and then having sex with women's dead bodies. This is part of why I am jaded when it comes to mas conversions of violent inmates behind bars.

41:04 The realistic side of me just a'm buy in it. Recidivism rates alone support my opinion. However, people who have been locked up longer, you know, amounts of time, I'm willing to believe there's more of an ability to change. But he was only behind bars for twelve years compared to the crimes he had committed. I just don't believe that lessons were learned in the amount of time versus number one the crimes multiple that he had committed too. He was a sexual offender. Sorry, not sorry about it. But regardless of what I think or I believe, John served his time and he was released in two thousand and three. So continuing forward, John settled into his third chance at freedom by choosing a change of scenery and heading north. He found himself living in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, and he really focused on that religion aspect of his life. He attended church. He continued to attend church, and that's a good thing, right, And he even became a pastor at his church known as the christ Community Fellowship Church. It was right there in town. It really did seem like he was making moves for the better and he was trying. So he also met a woman. Her name was Sally Gay, and the two of them hit it off. They blended into each other's lives well. And even her daughter, Rebecca bonded with John. He

42:38 was like a step bother to her and they really enjoyed each other's company. Now, as a woman, I'm gonna be honest and say I would have been concerned about John's past. Even Christine, John's sister, was surprised at the relationship he was now in considering his past. She even took it upon herself to go talk to and say, look, you know, are you aware of my brother's misgivings in the past. Do you know about his history? And Sally assured her yes, I am aware. But listen, John really is a changed man and she felt confident in him as a man and as her future husband. That's right. John was so smitten with Sally that he even proposed to her and things really were coming together for the pair.

43:29 Tragedy would strike the couple before they were able to get married, though, when Sally's twenty four year old daughter, Rebecca, suddenly vanished on Halloween of twenty twelve. So I want to describe Becca to you. I feel the urge to call her Becca for sure. Maybe it's because we have a family member that lives in Florida. We call re Becca and she just had a baby. She's also in law enforcement, by the way, So hey, Becca, if you're listening. But re Becca in this story, y'all, she is beautiful. I'm so serious. She's so pretty. She's a blonde. She's got these light eyes. They look blue to me, and they're almond shaped. She has this little nose it's cute, I mean literally cute as a button. And she has a really small frame. She's just precious, and she has this light in her eyes and a sparkle of youth that I think we all can admire. I'm gonna post pictures of her too on my Patreon. She was a two thousand graduate of Bullock Creek High School, and the more I read about her, the more I liked her. I found out that she was a proud member of the equestrian team and her dream was to study cosmatology. And obviously I never had the privilege of meeting young Becca, but from all accounts, she was kind and she was more on the quiet side. I also feel her competitiveness, okay, and that the things I read about her said that along with her equestrian skills, she also

45:01 loved to volunteer to help the less fortunate. But it wasn't by just dropping money in a bucket, no, okay. Becca volunteered to compete in her school's archery shoot, and she had this goal of raising money for families in need when tragedy strikes. There was a spunk about this one. Ladies and gentlemen, She had a kind heart and that can't be overlooked. After high school, she continued to pursue that cosmetology dream, and she would even graduate from in Session School of Cosmatology. So she would work at a place called bo Rick's Hair Care, but she then would become employed at the good Will store in Mount Pleasant And she was just a winner that even at the young age of twenty four, she was moved up and promoted to management. Okay, the girl had it going on. She was the heart and soul of her family, and she was so incredibly valued and loved, especially by her baby boy. She loved that baby boy more than life and she was determined to give him a life that he would be proud of. Something else about her, She always put others before herself. And I love when families give nicknames to people. I love the stories behind them. Like my dad always called me tug a boat, not tug boat. You got to add the uh tug a boat. And he said he called me tug a boat because

46:36 I was always on my sister's heels, pushing her, you know, like a tugboat. I guess. But they call my sister booger. I can't speak on why. I can't say she's been snotty to me before. She'll probably get mad at me about that, but whatever. Uh, I don't know why they called her booger. But Becca was known to her family as Becca Boo, all right, little Becca Boo. She was also loved by a fiance and he was playing on marrying her and they were going to build a life together. And miss Becca was young. She was thriving, and she was making her way in this world. So the fact that she would just up and disappear was just extremely unlike her. She was devoted to her baby boy, she had parents that adored her, she had two brothers and a sister that she was close with. She wasn't flaky. This was wrong.

47:25 It was very out of character, okay. And she was initially reported missing by her co workers at Goodwill in Mount Pleasant, and they would even go searching for her because they were so upset. Never underestimate your coworkers, you know those like strange relationships you make at work when you're like twenty and you have a sixty two year old besty named you know, like Harold, and when he calls in you're worried about him. It's like those funny relationships. Well, Rebecca's co workers cared about her, and they were the ones who ended up actually finding her car, which was parked in the parking lot of a bar called the Barn Door on the corner of Coldwater and M twenty. And like I said, Becca wasn't one that was just gonna up and leave. And she was a mother. She absolutely adored and lived for her baby boy. His name was Conway. He was a cute, little blondheaded thing. He was about three years old and he needed his mommy, and his mommy loved him. So both Sally and John right, her mom and soon to be stepfather, were stunned at her being missing, and they even turned to the congregation of their church for support. Pastor John stood before them all and he begged for their prayers to God Almighty for her safe return.

48:37 It was a devastating blow to them, and Rebecca was also a church member there, so these people prayed fervently for her to be found. So as the prayers were sent up in bulk to heaven, police were searching the earth for a sign or a trace of Rebecca. The last place Becca was known to have been was her little house trailer located in a trailer park with a bunch of other ones. It sat just eleven miles west of Mount Pleasant on South Coldwater Road, and it was known as the Broomfield Valley Trailer Park. So I looked it up because I was just kind of curious what it looked like, and it was a nice little trailer park. It had a paved road. It was built in the nineteen sixties and it was just something that a young single mother would be able to afford. Another benefit, too, was that her soon to be stepdad and pastor lived in there too. John lived in there, and despite his misgivings in the past, he and Rebecca had a good relationship and he was always there to help her out. Oftentimes with little Conrad, he would babysit, he would take him here and there, basically being an additional helper, right because the young mom was trying to do good, better her life for her son, and after all, it takes a village. Police questioned the neighbors and the acquaintances of her, and they were just trying to establish, basically in an timeline of events. But the only real solid information as to her known movements was that it was Halloween

50:07 and John had seen her when he helped her to get Conway dressed in his little Halloween costume, and then he dropped little Conway off with his biological father in a grocery store parking lot. He likes those grocery stores, doesn't he. This obviously made the pastor somewhat of interest because he was the last person to have seen Rebecca. So the police, you know, After they interviewed everyone in the trailer park and came up with nothing, John was needed for more questioning, and so he made his way to the sheriff's station, where he told them all that he knew, which really wasn't much. He helped get Conway in his costume, and then he delivered him to his dad. Then he went home. That was it. He hadn't heard or seen anything beyond that. Just like the other neighbors. And like I said, John and Becca had a great father daughter like relation. And you know, he agreed to often dress Conrad in the morning, multiple mornings, whenever she would be going to work. He loved that boy, and he wanted to help find his future stepdaughter in any way that he could. So after that questioning, he even reached out to the church and he pled to the members of the church, y'all pray because we haven't found her. She's not here.

51:23 Police kept looking for her, but it wouldn't be long before they would finally know the truth of what happened. But when I say not long, I think everything's relative, because for nearly twenty hours of pain, anguish, and excruciating uncertainty, twenty hours would pass for that gay family who so desperately wanted their beca boo back. You know, was she scared? Was she hurt? Was she calling out for them and feeling all alone? I never want to feel the way her family must have been feeled that raw emotion and that suffering of the unknown. For twenty hours, they had no clue, but the answer would come soon enough. When police further questioned their closest to Becca Pastor White, he would give some new eye opening perspective on the whereabouts of Becca. After questioning a bit further, he admitted that his pastor facade was starting to slip, and that he had been sexually aroused and fueled by these fantasies he was having. But it's not exactly about Becca. It was actually about engaging in sex with dead women, those same things he was wanting to

52:53 do when he was incarcerated. He further told the police that he had been freaking quitting a psycho thriller website that entertained people by showing videos of women being murdered. Yes entertainment, he said. Beyond that unbelievable thought of being entertained by watching women be murdered, he said it was fueling his his fantasies of having sex with these dead bodies. He needed a dead body, he wanted to have sex with it. So police continued to tactically interview John White as he gave up bits and pieces of information. Slowly and methodically, a picture, and a brutal picture began to take shape. John eventually admitted that these films from those websites had been fueling further bad thoughts for about two weeks, he said, and now that desire for a dead body had motivated him into a strong lust for Rebecca's dead body, and it had to end by him having sex with her dead body. So police continued to push, and that's when John White explained that in the early morning hours of Halloween, he was at home drinking beer and he had a bunch of direct quote natty daddies,

54:24 as he referred to them, roughly four to five twenty four ounce natural light beers, and that's when his lust overtook him. He got up, he grabbed a mallet and a zip tie, a large one. It was about two am. He walked over to the home of his unsuspecting prey and he watched her bedroom light light up. After he knocked on the door. Baby Conrad was still asleep, and Rebecca came to the door. John would often help dress him, as I mentioned before, as she prepared for work, so this would not have been completely out of the normal. Becca walked to a side door where John was and he entered the trailer, and at some point Becca turned and she looked out of the door window, and that's when he saw his moment. So he raised that mallet and he brought it down, slamming it into the head of not only that young mother, but his future stepdaughter. And he continued to bash her about the head several times until she collapsed and she lost consciousness. All of this, according to court records.

55:42 While this horrific scene played out, it wasn't enough for him though. The blood and the lust was too much. It turns out that he hadn't killed her, and he noticed that because she was still breathing. This wasn't the fantasy though, right he wanted to have sex with her dead body. He came prepared for that because that was exactly what he wanted to happen. You remember that zip tie. He then placed it around her neck as there was still life in her, the chance to save her was still there, the chance to stop himself and remember all that that bible he had been preaching for the last few years had said. But no, he was lusting like a depraved animal. So he put the zip tie around her neck, and he tightened it, and he tightened it, and he got tighter and tighter until all of the blood flow ceased, and the light in her eyes faded away, and she was suffocated to death. After he was sure that she was dead, that she was gone no more to hold her child or to hug her mother, he grabbed her and he dragged her dead body into the kitchen area, where he undressed her. Now it's at this point that he advised police he didn't remember having sex with her. Bull bucking shit. Of course you do. It was the whole reason you were there. Your body

57:16 didn't just shut down at the moment of the coup de gras. You raped her, You raped her dead body you meant to, and you enjoyed every last second of it. You know, this isn't a damn soap opera where you get conveniently, you know, a rush of amnesia. At the sickest moment, he remembered it all, and I firmly believe that with every ounce of my soul. So after he pleasured himself with her lifeless body in which she could not defend herself, he went back home. He got a roll of construction sized garbage bags, and then he just walked right on back to her house. There, as her precious baby boy slept in that adjacent room, he wrapped her body, her clothing, and all of the bloody towels in a bag. He also grabbed that mallet and he put that inside, and then he loaded it all into the bed of his truck. He had used the items for which he felt that they were worth, and now it was time for him to go get rid of the trash. He drove away, leaving baby Conrad alone in the trailer, and he dumped the towels and a mallet on Woodrough Road. And then he continued further where he found the perfect spot that he dumped Becca's body and it would be left on the southeast corner of Pickered and Cold Water Road. And his work here was done.

58:44 He could smoke a cigarette and relax, But then again he wanted to do something a little bit further, just to make sure it looked like she had left at some point, right, So he went back to her house and got her car, and that's when he drove it to the bar where it would later be found by her co workers. And his hopes were that the police would believe she had been kidnapped. So to add to that false narrative, the pastor took her personal belongings, that she would never leave home without her purse, her phone, her car keys, and then he went and he threw those in the dumpster at the trailer park, which was stupid in my humble opinion, and that if she were kidnapped and her car was taken, why would the car be at the bar and the keys we back at the dumpster at home? Common sense Regardless, police followed up immediately on everything John said in his admissions, and they found exactly everything where he said that they would be. Rebecca's lifeless body was dumped and it was found in a ditch behind some pine trees about a mile like I said, from her mobile home. Then the chameleon of a man, the woman abusing, murdering false pastor of God's word, returned to rebecca home and then did exactly what he had told police in his first statement, he woke up baby Conrad, he got him dressed in his little Halloween costume, and then brought him to his daddy at a grocery store, pretending to care about the little fella, when in all actuality, he was simply using him as a cover story. After

1:00:20 John White admitted to what he had done, he was promptly arrested and he would go to trial for the murder of Rebecca Gay. In April of twenty thirteen, he was sentenced to fifty six years in prison, and at the sentencing, Rebecca's mother, Sally, she spoke up and her words, really, I felt like in my heart for twenty excruciating hours, we prayed that Rebecca would come home. She was not yours to take. How dare you? She then said that her family was devastated by the death of what she referred to Becca as the Fai family's heart and soul. And she brought up again too, that the one who would suffer the most was the one who couldn't even speak up. It was her baby boy, Conrad, who is now four years old. Miss Sally later said that John wasn't the person she knew before he killed her daughter, and this is where I see it a little different. She has all the right and I have none. Okay, I know that. However, experience tells me that more likely than not, she never knew John, only what he chose to show her. She was a good woman and she was taken advantage of by a monster in plain sight, you know. Admitting his crimes over and over somehow it disarmed people.

1:01:43 But admitting and repenting are different, right, Admitting doesn't make me forget like it does some. If anything, it makes me more aware. Two women were abused and killed before he even met Becca. Two he was given a slap on the wrist for both. He he manipulated, and he used the system in those cases, just like he did the people he came in contact with. His own sister said after the trial that John always had a story and people always believed him. This is why people think I'm mean. I mean, I'm not mean, y'all. I'm living in the reality that people are dangerous and their word these days it doesn't mean shit. Look around.

1:02:24 Look at the crime rates, look at the recidivism rates. Listen to the story had just told you enough is enough. And Becca's mama also said something else that I want to quote directly, because she hit the nail on the head. John White is receiving more rights than our daughter, who was a law abiding citizen. When he was previously released from prison. He was the equivalent of a starving lion, yes, ma'am, a predator who only needed time and pray y'all. He got both. He got both over and over again, fortunately for US taxpayers. Though, his leechment on society wouldn't last long, because on August twenty eighth of twenty thirteen, John White was found hanging in his prison cell just after four am. According to the reports, they did try to save him, but he was already dead. John's own son from a previous relationship said he was completely crazy until the end. His own son said it. John White once told the fourteen members at the christ Community Fellowship Church, this is a quote right. We need to check closely the seeds we sprout in ourselves. Nothing can be hidden from God. Well.

1:03:39 John used religion to cover his evil ways, no doubt, and he was able to abuse and kill multiple women, always claiming a reason for his action. It was never his fault or a loophole worked in his favor. And he's a prime example of why I do this podcast. Because these situations continued to happen day in and day out all over the world. I have personally been in the presence of evil more than people will probably ever read about in their lifetime. These victims are real, They are real people like you and me, and for that, I'm gonna continue to say what I want until someone beats my ass, and then I'm gonna keep saying it with a black eye.