Unraveling Darkness: John White

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims, whose cases are
so shocking that many are left wondering how

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is this even real? I use
my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and

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combined with my years as a criminal
justice educator, dig deep into complex cases

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of evil acts, some so evil
many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences.
If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is
advised. Hey, y'all, it's kJ

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here. What's going on? I'm
back for another episode of Unspeakable? Oh

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my goodness, am I a busy
woman? I'm y'all. I cannot even

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begin to tell you all of the
events that I have coming up that I

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will be speaking at and I've been
invited to, including the week that this

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will drop. On Saturday, I'll
be at that marchha in the park in

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Livingston Parish, right at North Park
in Denham Springs. So if you're gonna

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be out and about, y'all should
come by there. I'll have a whole

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bunch of merch set up, and
I've got some new shirts that are glittery

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ladies. They're glittery, they're so
nice, and I got a bunch of

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stuff that'll be there, and i'd
love to take pictures with you and say

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hey. So I will be there
as a special guest, so come in

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and say hey to me. But
look, I got some shout outs I

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got to do today, and y'all, I had to go down a little

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rabbit hole because I didn't know where
the heck one of these was from.

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And it's gonna be miss Renee.
Damon. Now, look, I'm country

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as they come, apparently, because
I was gonna say she's from Sequel,

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washing Ten, but then I was
like, I wonder if that's right,

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So I googled it and it says
it's pronounced Squim, Washington, so I

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hope I'm getting that right, miss
Renee. I'm so glad to have you

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join. And then I even kept
researching because I'm a total nerd, and

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I read that it's the Lavender Capital
and that squim means a place for going

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to shoot, so I don't know
what we're shooting, but hey, girl,

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I'm so glad to have you,
and I just learned about where you're

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from and everything. Then, right, here in Denham Springs, Louisiana,

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Miss Lindsay Stoltz, Hey Lindsay girl, you my neighbor. Huh, we're

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right here by me, so so
glad to have you, as well as

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Miss Ashley Willingham from Angola, Louisiana. Hey, Ashley, that's pretty cool,

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no Lie, I'm guessing you work
there. I don't know if you

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do or not. Maybe send me
a PM and let me know, but

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glad to have you, as well
as Miss Casey Joe Simms from Colorado City,

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Texas. And Casey, I think
I spoke to you online on Facebook

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recently, So Hey, Casey Joe, my mother in law love to call

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me Kelly Joe, so I kind
of like that. And then I've got

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Janie Rivera from Indianapolis, Indiana,
as well as Charlotte Upton from Hamilton,

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Alabama. And then last but not
least, I have to say hey to

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Miss Deborah Mays from Hendersonville, Tennessee. From all over the place, they

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joined my crime family and my Vigilanti
groups, and I'm so so excited to

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have each and every one of you. And then this morning I was just

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tickled as I'll get out because I
had somebody message me from the UK that

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was telling me hello, and I
was like, hey girl, how are

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you? And we want to know
where Kate is. Have y'all been watching

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that drama? Where is Kate?
No one has seen her in the media.

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It might be my next podcast,
Kate. If you're out there,

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your Royal Highness, call me.
Let kJ know you're okay, because we're

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looking for you in the photographs.
All Right. This episode that I have

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today, y'all, it pissed me
the hell off right in it, So

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I want you to pay attention to
it because this one just it ain't right.

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It just ain't right. But it
caught my attention at first because of

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one of the people in the story's
name. His name is John White,

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and that happens to be my stepmom's
brother's name. And I was like,

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oh, hell, my family done
messed up. But it's not him.

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It's a totally different story. But
this one's gonna take place in twenty twelve.

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But before I get into all the
details of the twenty twelve case,

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I'm gonna have to go take you
way back to nineteen eighty all right,

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four years before I was even born. Okay, to get started and I

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chose this case purposefully in that it
encompasses why I'm admittedly jaded when it comes

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to the idea of complete reform for
anyone who has any type of sex offense

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in their repertoire. Okay, now, data even backs up my hesitancy in

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that, all right, according to
the US Office of Justice. And you

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know, I go look up that
ata and statistics because I want to come

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from a place of not only experience, but also you know, academia.

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It does matter. And the studies
found a thirty percent recidivism rate at year

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ten of offenders released from prison.
But and this is a huge but to

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me, the year twenty five,
if people are out twenty five years,

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the reoffending rate increases to fifty two
percent. And that matters to me because

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that means the more time that someone
has once they are released from a sex

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offense, the more likely they are
to reoffend. If you're looking at the

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data. So I want you to
remember that roughly half of those that are

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released from prison after a sexual offense
will do it again. They will go

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back to prison. And we as
a society, y'all, we can't ignore

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this because by doing so, we
create the opportunity and near guarantee that more

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victims are going to be created.
So case in point, this is going

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to start with a guy named John
White, the most vanilla name I've ever

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said in the history of storytelling.
But he started out as a promising person.

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Okay. John was born on May
twentieth, nineteen fifty seven, and

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he was adored by his mother and
his sister, Christine, and they grew

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up in Augusta, Michigan. Very
close was he to his little sister.

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He played sports, you know.
He was just the kid that his little

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sister looked up to him. And
he grew up in a loving home and

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he was raised to work hard.
Matter of fact, his daddy was a

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police chief, then a fire chief, and eventually a mayor. So that

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should tell you the caliber of man
that John White was being raised by.

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Great examples were set for him in
regards to being a man. But his

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mouth, not the daddy I'm talking
about. John. His mouth was a

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problem and it would continue to get
him in trouble. He did stupid things

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in high school, y'all, Like
he would yell, you know, he

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opened the girl's locker room door,
and he would yell in there and upset

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the girls. And he was known
to be a liar. And on top

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of being a liar, he would
never take responsibility for his actions, which

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sucks. Okay, it's one thing
to be a liar, but like if

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a kid will tell me, oh, yeah, I messed up, you

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know, fed up? Okay,
cool, at least you're taking accountability for

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it. Not John. His dad
was the disciplinarian and he would he would

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spank the kids. And what was
crazy about that was that John was rather

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flat emotionally and he didn't seem to
get worked up much by a spanking.

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But John was rather flat emotionally,
and he didn't seem to get worked up

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much, you know, even even
my own You know, kids like,

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I mean, you spank somebody,
they get pissed off. Nobody likes to

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get a spanking. That's the point
of the spanking. And then you're gonna

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tear somebody's butt up for misbehaving and
they're just flat about it and it doesn't

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bother them at all. You know. That's kind of weird. But he

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did, though, have flashes of
anger that would come through from time to

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time, but it wasn't anything that
was over the top. You know,

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it wasn't necessarily something that made people, you know, freak out about the

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way that he behaved, but he
did have these flashes of anger that got

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people's attention. So he had a
job, for example, and his job

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was that he would do newspaper delivery, and both he and his sister had

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their own little routes that they would
go run and deliver their newspapers. And

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his sister was actually attacked by a
dog one time on her route, and

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then the next day the dog was
missing. It turned out that that dog

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had been brought out into the woods
and shot. Now, you know,

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maybe in response to attacking John's sister
or something along those lines. People thought,

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okay, well the dog must to
been you know, shot by the

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owner because it attacked the kid,
and you know, they don't want to

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have any more trouble with the family. But I mean, look here,

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let me tell you something. I
ain't shooting my dog regardless of what he

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does. If my weeded dog attacks
you, in my opinion, you deserve

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it, right. He's a precious
angel from heaven and everyone who he has

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ever bitten deserved it. I'm gonna
live and die on that hill apologies to

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my children, but he cannot be
blamed. You know what I'm saying.

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I would get to take a loan
out, and I would loan him my

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gun and my car if he asked
for it. But this poor dog was

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shot. Now, luckily his sister
did recover, and you know, life

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kind of went on, but it
was like, man, you know,

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you know, I just couldn't believe
somebody would do that to their animal.

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So through his late teens in his
early twenties, right, John's resume was

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kind of impressive and included serving in
the Navy. He even traveled to Japan

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for two year years and then he
came back and he worked as a long

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haul trucker in the seventies and the
eighties, and he really seemed to be

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fulfilling that American dream of service to
country and hard work to get the things

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that you want in life. And
looking at him, y'all, he looked

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like you're everyday white guy, all
right. He stood five foot eleven,

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he was roughly one hundred and eighty
pounds. He wasn't a super imposing guy.

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Just looking at him, he did
have kind of a big nose for

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his face, and his ears do
kind of stick out, you know.

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All in all though, if you
looked at I mean, just looked like

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your typical dude right walking around.
But in the year nineteen eighty, John

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was twenty two years old and he
was living in Battle Creek, Michigan,

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and he also had met another milestone
in his life. He had gotten married.

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And that kind of came about because
he had gotten a girl pregnant.

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But they decided that, hey,
we need to get married. So they

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settled into their home life and they
were young and in love and they were

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just trying to get their lives stone
guarded. Their marriage was not exactly perfect

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though. Okay, they were young, and John did like to dabble in

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drugs a little bit, and his
drug of choice was marijuana. From everything

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that I researched, I didn't see
that he was like doing cocaine or anything

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off the table, but you know, I just saw marijuana. But in

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nineteen eighty something kind of weird happened. That's when he invited over their seventeen

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year old neighbor and her name was
Teresa Etherton, and the reason he had

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invited her over was that she was
kind of interested in this stock car racetrack

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that he had set up, and
he had invited her over to come check

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it out, and at some point
they went down in the basement where they

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were going to smoke weed together and
talk cars, according to his wife,

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which is strange to me as well, because as a wife, I don't

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think I'd exactly be down with that. You know, I also have a

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problem with a twenty two year old
old married man inviting over a seventeen year

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old female while the wife is home, but only hanging out with the teenager

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and doing drugs. But hey,
you know, different strokes, different folks

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whatever. So, as I mentioned
right, their home had a basement,

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which is not something I'm familiar with
in South Louisiana. Matter of fact,

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basements sounds scary as hell to me. All I can think about is Kevin

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and home alone and him having to
go down in that basement, and basements

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just scream Shit's going to go bad
to me. But I'm sure my ignorant,

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you know, my ignorance is showing
right now. But they went down

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in that basement, and they had
been down there for a little while when

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next thing, John, you know, John's wife knows, John comes flying

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up the stairs. He's freaking out
and he's screaming that Teresa had attacked him

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with a knife. So why in
the world did she attack you? You

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know, what is going on that
His wife is screaming, what is going

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on? Why did she attack you? And he turns around and he's like,

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for my weed, for his and
he had to fight her off.

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She had gone so crazy and he
ended up stabbing that seventeen year old girl

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in the process of the fight over
the weed. Well, that sounded a

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bit extreme, even to his sister. That sounded a bit extreme, right,

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But his sister, you know,
heard the story, and she quickly,

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you know, dismissed any questions she
had about the situation when she actually

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saw him, because she asked him
what happened, and he explained, as

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before you know, that they had
gone down in the basement and then she

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attacked him. And he even showed
his sister the cuts on his hands,

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which backed up to some extent what
he was claiming. John, though,

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would eventually be arrested and charged for
attacking the girl. She would survive that

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stabbing, but John's family was show
that he was being charged. I mean,

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how unfair just because he's a guy, he's got to take the brunt

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of this attack, and he's going
to be charged. When she attacked him,

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it just it wasn't right. But
when it came down time for the

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trial, John's sister would become a
bit concerned because when she goes to support

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her brother at this trial, she's
like, my god, John's demeanor changed

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when court was in session, and
not only did his demeanor change while in

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court, the testimony that seventeen year
old Teresa gave was quite different from what

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she was expecting it to be.
To start, his sister, john sister

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said his eyes looked dark during the
trial, and his sister knew him very

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well, and he showed a very
different day meaner while he was listening to

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that seventeen year old girl give her
testimony. Maybe he was angry at being

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charged with something of which he was
actually the victim, you know, or

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maybe his disdain for his attacker was
shining through. You know, it wasn't

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quite apparent what was happening, but
you know, John's sister didn't know at

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first what she was looking at,
but for certain she was looking at something

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very different in that courtroom, and
the trial revealed something totally different from the

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story that was so convincingly told to
John's sister, Christine. I mean,

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Teresa's story was very different, matter
of fact. It's the discrepancies and the

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details that are so alarming. Without
warning, John had attacked the teenage girl,

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stabbing her fifteen times and then choking
her. And what was found in

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the trial was that that first stab
was from behind. He attacked her from

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behind as well, you know,
as landing that blade right under her right

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00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.679
shoulder blade. I'm assuming, because
she's a teenager and she's a girl,

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that she was smaller than him,
So I'm envisioning a downward swipe from the

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right hand from behind her, which
certainly suggests that this was a blitz attack

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00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:34.559
on an unsuspecting team. And even
creepier is the fact that when she testified

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that when she turned around to face
him, you know, just in shock

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00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:45.840
and utter surprise, y'all, he
was smiling at her as he was stabbing

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her, eyes wide open and smiling
at her. Real quick I wanted to

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tell y'all this too. Did you
know that there's actually like academic literature on

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this very thing? Yeah, there
is, Okay, psychologists call this the

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Doucian smile, it's not. It's
spelled du c h E n n E

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00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:11.680
if you want to look it up, and most people consider it the sole

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indicator of true enjoyment. And the
name from this comes. It's like a

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00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:22.160
nod to the guy who studied emotional
expression by stimulating various facial muscles with an

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electrical current. Okay, so hear
me out, real quick euphoria or happiness,

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right, it's linked to smiling,
to pure joy, right, when

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00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.960
you are genuinely happy. Have you
ever seen a picture you didn't know someone

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00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.279
took a view when you're actually like
elated and you're happy, and it's always

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00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:42.359
a good picture because it's a genuine
smile. You're so excited. Right,

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But remember how his sister had said
his eyes had turned dark in court.

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Well that was interesting to me,
and so I was doing some research and

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I ended up on a site called
bipolar dot com and it was explaining mania.

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And I had been thinking about the
fact that he was stabbing her and

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the excitement it must have brought him, you know, I e that euphoric

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mania. And that's when I saw
this psychologist talking about the belief that eyes

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get darker. Literally, eyes get
darker during dysphoric mania, and she mentioned

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how she started asking her clients that
suffered from this. She started asking her

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clients to notice I changes, okay, and ask their loved ones when they're

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in manic episodes this dysphoric mania,
look at them and see if you see

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eye changes in them. And she
said that she had many stories of how

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dysphoric mania turned the eyes black.
There is something to it. I call

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it shark eyes. I know,
I've called it that on other episodes before

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that people just look different. So
that psychologist went to an eye doctor and

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00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.960
asked about it, and she said
that the eye doctor said, oh,

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00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.359
and this is a direct quote.
Oh, I'm not surprised by that.

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00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:17.799
It's documented that adrenaline can make the
pupil take over the eye, and mania

247
00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.440
sounds like it's something to do with
adrenaline. So I would think the eye

248
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.440
is the same color, but the
pupil is huge, and that is what

249
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:33.880
creates that all dark black eye that
people say they see when someone is having

250
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.480
that dyspork mania. And that was
like an AHA moment for me. It

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00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:42.039
seems like he smiled out of euphoria, that happiness he was having with stabbing

252
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:48.559
her. But the eyes in court
they were dark, right, according to

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the sister, And maybe that's because
he was pissed, which was that dysphoria

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00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.519
he was feeling. I don't know, man, it made so much sense

255
00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.880
to me. So when you're in
euphoria, right, the eyes get big.

256
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.319
When you're dysphoric, they get dark, all right. So going back

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00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:12.240
to the trial, then adding literal
insult to injury, Teresa, that teenager

258
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:17.720
also detailed to police that John,
and this is a direct quote, wiped

259
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:23.400
her mouth off and kissed her after
stabbing her, and then he held her

260
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:29.359
hand and he said to her direct
quote, you're gonna go now, and

261
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:32.559
I'm real sorry you had to go
like this, but what the fuck?

262
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:40.039
You're just a woman? End quote. What in the world. While the

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00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:45.680
discrepancies were large, right, Christine
John's sister, she still loved her brother,

264
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:48.680
and she was like, I just
want this whole mess to be resolved,

265
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.920
whatever the case may be. And
when it was all said and done,

266
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John was convicted of attempted murder,
to which he promptly apologized for.

267
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:06.680
Well, in that's special, he
tried to kill someone, but he's sorry

268
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.160
about it. Not only that,
he made a statement to the effect of

269
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.279
people have told me I have a
problem, but I didn't listen to them

270
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:21.039
nor actually realize it until now.
And then he kind of pandered a bit

271
00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:26.920
to the court and he asked for
help rather than prison time. I need

272
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.960
help, right, I'm sick,
I need help, and I'm sorry for

273
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:36.720
everything that I've done. Well.
The judge then turned around and sentenced him

274
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to five to ten years in prison
and recommended that he get mental health counseling

275
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:48.000
in prison. Now, the poor
girl whom he almost killed but was spared

276
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only, according to the judge,
by the grace of God, she was

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confident that he wouldn't be able to
hurt her or anyone else, and she

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00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:03.359
says that she found a lot of
solace in his conviction. Well, she's

279
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.759
better than me, because ten years
ain't enough for trying to kill me,

280
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you know what I'm saying. Sorry, not sorry, But that solace that

281
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she felt wouldn't last long because John
would file an appeal, and y'all,

282
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:23.200
the asshole would win. He would
win the appeal his complaint and his appeal

283
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:30.519
was based around the fact that he
says his attorney failed to raise an insanity

284
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defense. Not only did he win, but after trying to stab a teenage

285
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girl to death, he was then
promptly released from prison in nineteen eighty three.

286
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He had only served two years for
fifteen stab wounds and attempting to kill

287
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:59.720
a young girl. Two years of
probation was also attached, along with mandatory

288
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mines health treatment, and he was
on his way free to do as he

289
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:08.880
pleased. Now, I know someone
out there who's listened to this is wondering,

290
00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:14.039
well, you know about this insanity
claim and how could that even qualify

291
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:15.599
in this case? So I wanted
to address it, so I don't leave

292
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.519
you with any questions. Right.
So this was in the nineteen eighties,

293
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.759
don't forget that, and the rules
of insanity claims and please have changed since

294
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:30.000
then, specifically the Insanity Defense Reform
Act of nineteen eighty four, if you're

295
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.279
listening to the to this timeframe,
just a year later, and that was

296
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.279
signed into law by President Reagan,
which made it significantly more difficult to obtain

297
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:44.000
a verdict of not guilty only by
reason of insanity, because it shifted the

298
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.960
burden of proof to the defendant to
prove that you know, there was clear

299
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.440
and convincing evidence that he or she
was legally insane at the time of the

300
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.319
crime. Not the prosecution, but
when John's case took place, this was

301
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.559
not an effect. Two years in
prison doesn't seem like long at all,

302
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:08.799
right, But while there John had
really dug in his heels and he tried

303
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:14.279
to make some progress. He actually
put pen to paper, and he decided

304
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:19.680
to write a book about his life. His sister, Christine was very intrigued

305
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.640
by this, and she decided that
she was going to read the book herself.

306
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:30.519
And one chapter really caught her attention
in that John discussed that dog attack

307
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:36.960
on her when she was young during
her paper route. And you know,

308
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.720
that's sweet. It's sweet that that
incident had touched his heart enough and he

309
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.079
remembered enough about it to write about
it. So she sits down to read

310
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this, and the sadness about her
attack wasn't actually the main topic, but

311
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rather the fact that he admitted to
shooting that dog himself. He detailed how

312
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:07.079
he lie in wait in a field
wanting that dog. He was waiting for

313
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:12.839
the owners to release it. He
steadied his gun and he pulled the trigger,

314
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and Christine was stunned by this admission
because John had never mentioned it their

315
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:26.279
entire lives in any conversation. Ever, they always assumed the owners had killed

316
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.079
the dog. It just didn't sit
right with her either, But it was

317
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:36.000
so long ago, and John had
claimed to change in so many ways that

318
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:42.160
she was willing to just kind of
let bygones be bygones, or Hattie see.

319
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:47.799
Just a year or so later,
his victim, Teresa, was standing

320
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:52.240
in line at a store when a
familiar voice began to fill the air.

321
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:59.480
She turned, y'all and was stunned
to see John White standing there in the

322
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:07.039
flesh And what was he doing smiling
at her? I've never attempted to stab

323
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.559
someone to death, but I can
almost with a thousand percent certainty, say

324
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:17.759
that I would not remain near them
at any point once released, specifically after

325
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.359
having been convicted of doing such a
thing, Nor would I smile at them.

326
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.440
The circumstances alone would warrant that a
smile. Is it wanted by her?

327
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:32.039
Nor is it respectful to do such
a thing. I mean, like

328
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.200
read the room, John, You
know what I'm saying. It's disgusting and

329
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:41.400
it's taunting in my opinion. And
on that note that John, remember had

330
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:47.400
told Teresa that she was quote just
a woman before he expected her to die.

331
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:52.599
He also reportedly referred to women that
he met in Japan, remember how

332
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:57.839
he went on a military tour.
He reportedly referred to those women as lot

333
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:03.920
lizards, lot lizards. Okay,
and these women that he was referring to

334
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:08.119
were actually working girls. They were
prostitutes that he would use for money.

335
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:14.680
And his friends that were serving with
him also said that when he was done

336
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:19.480
with them, he always claimed that
he threw them in dumpsters. So was

337
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:25.400
he calling them trash or was he
serious? Because looking back on it,

338
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:29.480
some eyebrows were now raised, considering
he had just tried to stab a teenager

339
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.480
to death. There was no proof
of this, nor was he ever charged

340
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.240
with anything related to these claims.
But one wonders, or I do,

341
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.039
at least if there was a rash
of women in Japan found in dumpsters around

342
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:47.559
that time. But whether truth or
just talking trash, John clearly does not

343
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.480
respect women, okay. So time
continued to move forward, and after so

344
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:57.160
much drama in their lives, John
and his marriage to his first wife had

345
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:03.920
suffered immensely. John wasn't one to
stay down though, and he actually had

346
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:08.039
found himself a new love interest.
It was now around nineteen ninety four when

347
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:14.559
John and Vicky Sue Wall began their
affair. John was working a maintenance job

348
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:18.279
at a textile company and that was
where he and Vicky Sue originally met.

349
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:26.640
Eventually, their flirtation turned into an
all out affair. Still very much married,

350
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.799
though he continued to play the role
of husband and father. You know,

351
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.960
he was a father now because he
had two children, and he continued

352
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:37.880
to play house. He was still
sleeping with his wife, okay, as

353
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:42.960
well as this new love interest,
in that she was pregnant with their third

354
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:48.279
child. So he's got a lover. He's got two children, a wife,

355
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.680
and a baby on the way.
She was still John's wife, but

356
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:57.559
she was certainly not his lover.
Vicky Sue was the center of his attention

357
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.640
outside of the home. John at
one point even confided in his sister how

358
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:08.039
much he thought of Vicky Sue,
even professing to his sister that he was

359
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:12.559
actually in love with her. But
his sister didn't want to hear of it.

360
00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.359
She didn't want any part of it. John, you're a married man,

361
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.039
right, You're a father of three
kids. This is not right.

362
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:23.680
You need to cut it off.
Unfortunately for John, though, this relationship

363
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:27.319
would never be you know, it
would never become more than just a side

364
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:33.960
chick, because in July of nineteen
ninety four, twenty six year old Vicky

365
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:42.119
Sue went missing. Her disappearance seemed
to affect John immensely. He began to

366
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.880
have these outbursts. He was in
emotional turmoil, so bad at one point

367
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.960
he even was threatening to kill himself. Okay, he was eight up with

368
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.440
the fact that Vicky Sue went missing, and I'm sure his wife was just

369
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:02.440
ecstatic about this. So with Vicky
miss you know, police began to investigate,

370
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:07.359
and she needed to be found and
soon. But the more time that

371
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.960
passed, the worst we all know
the chances of finding her alive would be.

372
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.079
She was only twenty six years old, she was young. So police

373
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.960
questioned the obvious person who may have
had a reason to make her go away,

374
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.400
which was John, the very man
she was having an affair with.

375
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.079
So police picked him up and they
brought him down to the station for some

376
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.519
questioning. And it didn't take long
for John to just come clean about the

377
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.279
affair. He readily admitted to stepping
out in his marriage and that he was

378
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.200
very much sexually active with Vicky Sue. So police asked him, you know,

379
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.079
John, when was the last time
that you have seen her or heard

380
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:47.400
from her? And he said it
was when he picked her up in his

381
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:51.960
truck at a grocery store. He
said, we got together, we had

382
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.799
sexual relations, and then I dropped
her back off. So this was a

383
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.839
start. This was great. So
police went and they obtained this surveillance video

384
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:04.519
from that grocery store parking lot,
which did in fact show Vicky Sue Wall

385
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:10.640
getting into a black pickup truck.
The man with her was also able to

386
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.119
be seen. He had a beard, and the time of the pickup was

387
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:19.000
around three am. After she got
into that truck. Though she was never

388
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:26.279
returned to that grocery store, that
video and John's account of picking her up

389
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:32.880
and dropping her off were the last
time anyone ever saw her alive, truth

390
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:37.200
be told, The police flat out
did not believe John's story. It was

391
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:42.640
just too convenient, right, And
she never reappeared at that store or anywhere

392
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.920
else for that matter. So police
start, you know, their wheel start

393
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:51.119
turning. Did did John's wife find
out and he had to get rid of

394
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.279
Vicky? Or had he dropped her
off somewhere else other than the grocery store.

395
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.559
You know, where was she?
The fact was that there was little

396
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:01.599
to know evidence pointing to murder,
and most importantly, y'all, there was

397
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:06.200
no body, so really no one
knew where or where or what had happened

398
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:13.359
to her. So police were unable
to charge John with anything. Maybe poor

399
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:15.640
behavior, you know what I'm saying, as far as cheating on your wife,

400
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:22.799
But cheating is not illegal, frowned
upon. So Vicky Sue's family would

401
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:29.640
continue to suffer for six more weeks
before her body would actually be found,

402
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:35.000
and she was in such bad shape
once her body was found that dental records

403
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:39.119
were the only way that she was
positively identified. Now where was her body?

404
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:45.400
It was only two miles from the
grocery store where she and John were

405
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:52.440
seen getting into his truck. So
she was so badly decomposed, y'all.

406
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.720
In those six weeks police weren't even
able to determine what her cause of death

407
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:01.000
was. The state in which she
was left, though, was pretty telling.

408
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:07.160
The attack on her was sexual in
nature. The killer had stripped her

409
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:13.839
naked except for a shirt and a
brawl which both had been pulled up around

410
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:17.640
her neck, exposing her breasts,
and she had been thrown out like trash.

411
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.000
She was dumped in a rural area
to hopefully rode away into nothing.

412
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:29.240
The location of her body in proximity
to that grocery store, along with knowing

413
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.519
she had gotten into the car with
John, you know, all of that

414
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:37.759
combined, the pressure was once again
applied to him and what he may know

415
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:44.400
or you know, was he hiding
something? And after more questioning, John

416
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:51.920
finally cracked, admitting that this whole
situation was a misunderstanding and he was a

417
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:59.839
scared man. See John explained that
Vicky Sue was a woman with an eclectic

418
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:07.920
sexual prowess. She was into really
really rough sex and part of that which

419
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:14.039
she loved to be strangled. So
as they engaged in what she wanted,

420
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:19.400
he accidentally choked her to death,
and he said it was horrible. He

421
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.000
was devastated, and he was scared
and unsure of what to do. He

422
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:29.239
panicked and he dumped her body,
the woman he professed to be in love

423
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:34.960
with. Right he was professing his
love to her, He just threw her

424
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:40.400
naked body out to rot and to
be seen by anyone who stumbled upon her.

425
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.039
No flowers to mark his beloved's final
resting place, nor a ride to

426
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.840
the hospital, or not even a
call to nine one one. She was

427
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:58.320
thrown out in a rural field for
the animals. Two feast on shirt pulled

428
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:04.960
up, private areas exposed. Wow, can't y'all feel the love he must

429
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:12.760
have had for her? What a
misunderstanding. Now call me a meanie weenie,

430
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:21.159
but his next move sounds rather strategic
to me. He then immediately went

431
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:29.400
and confessed the affair to his wife. I think that he was hoping she

432
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:34.199
would be so mad about the affair
and so pissed off that another woman was

433
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.519
sleeping with her husband that just maybe
she might keep her mouth shut. Considering

434
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.440
the vixen right who had been romancing
her husband was out of the picture.

435
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:51.639
Maybe VICKI wanted more and he had
to make her go away. Who knows

436
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:59.239
how he spun that story, but
wow, poor fella accidentally strangled his lover

437
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.320
to death and then runs home and
tells his wife about it. Not buying

438
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.960
it, I don't think that he
felt remorse. But if you're not already

439
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:12.760
completely in love with John, then
I'll just I'm just gonna keep on going

440
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.559
here after saying is peace, John
clammed up and he refused to talk to

441
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.559
the police anymore. He also refused
to take a light detector test. Y'all.

442
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:27.320
They're not even admissible in court.
Okay, it's just kind of a

443
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:34.199
strategy police use, but it certainly
shows a nervous man's autonomic reflexes right when

444
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.519
pressured. And I don't think John
wanted that. Science is tough. You

445
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:45.320
know, science is a bitch,
ain't it. Police now had a body,

446
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.639
but they needed more to build the
case of murder, so a luminol

447
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:53.559
test of his pickup truck was done. It was completely you know, completed

448
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:59.880
throughout the truck, and it would
come back positive for blood in multiple areas.

449
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:02.719
So just like a juror, y'all, I try to think of the

450
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:08.800
chances of that happening for non violence
related scenarios. Okay, I have been

451
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:15.599
married for thirteen years, and I
have been a passenger princess for at least

452
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.239
twelve years and three hundred and sixty
days of our marriage. Okay. That

453
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:25.599
said, I'm in my husband's truck
a lot, and I have never bled

454
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:30.639
in his truck. Even if I
had a bobo on my leg, it

455
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:37.719
would be the quantity that would matter, okay, because the quantity that was

456
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:45.039
left in his truck is not indicative
of a bobo. They had only been

457
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:46.559
a faring, if that's a word. They'd only been a fairing for a

458
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:53.039
short while. Why would there be
this much blood in his truck. Other

459
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:58.320
than the blood, Okay, police
didn't have much else in terms of evidence.

460
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:02.480
So at this point though, getting
the conviction was more important than the

461
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:07.960
exact charge considering his lack of evidence. Right, So a plea deal was

462
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:16.719
offered and agreed to. John agreed
to plead no contest to involuntary manslaughter involuntary

463
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:22.639
manslaughter, and as a result,
he was sentenced to eight to fifteen years

464
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:29.199
in prison. He was shipped off
to prison, and that is the end

465
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.519
of the story. Yeah, fucking
right. You know that there's more.

466
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:38.800
There's always more. So while in
prison, John White had become a new

467
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:45.000
man because now his second go round, he had had a complete come to

468
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:52.559
Jesus moment. He believed that he
had done wrong and he should be accountable

469
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:58.559
for the wrong he had done.
So prison ministry became his new passion and

470
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:04.280
he would eventually work his way up
to becoming a prison minister himself. So

471
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.679
what do inmates who minister do behind
bars? Okay, I know some people

472
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.920
may not know this, so I
wanted to tell you. They teach the

473
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:16.920
Bible, they provide counseling to other
inmates, and sometimes they'll lead worship,

474
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.039
you know, things of that nature. So I'm a Christian, as many

475
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:28.840
of my listeners know. So I
love that God's moving behind prison walls.

476
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.960
And I know this is true because
I've seen it myself. I've seen men

477
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:37.360
who went to prison long ago,
some before I was even born, that

478
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:43.760
have been released. They're older,
more mature, but they're also changed to

479
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:50.159
the core. So transformation is real
for those that truly want it, which

480
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:58.960
is through, in my opinion,
a very very long prison term. They

481
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:05.199
go to prison and they have to
have almost a lifetime to experience real change.

482
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:10.119
John would go on to serve twelve
years in prison, and then he

483
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:15.400
was released in two thousand and seven. Now I know my meaning weaniness is

484
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:21.199
about to start showing again. But
something that happened while he was still behind

485
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:28.000
bars was a bit of concern to
me. The self professed changed man and

486
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:32.599
minister was still under the care of
a prison psychologist while he was behind bars,

487
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:39.239
and during his documented sessions with that
psychologist, he would be open and

488
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:47.000
honest about his mental health, which
included are you ready his ongoing fantasies of

489
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:57.280
killing and then having sex with women's
dead bodies. This is part of why

490
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:02.760
I am jaded when it comes to
mas conversions of violent inmates behind bars.

491
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:09.760
The realistic side of me just a'm
buy in it. Recidivism rates alone support

492
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.679
my opinion. However, people who
have been locked up longer, you know,

493
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:20.960
amounts of time, I'm willing to
believe there's more of an ability to

494
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:25.639
change. But he was only behind
bars for twelve years compared to the crimes

495
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.119
he had committed. I just don't
believe that lessons were learned in the amount

496
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:37.280
of time versus number one the crimes
multiple that he had committed too. He

497
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:45.039
was a sexual offender. Sorry,
not sorry about it. But regardless of

498
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.639
what I think or I believe,
John served his time and he was released

499
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:54.079
in two thousand and three. So
continuing forward, John settled into his third

500
00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:00.159
chance at freedom by choosing a change
of scenery and heading north. He found

501
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:06.119
himself living in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, and he really focused on that religion

502
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.320
aspect of his life. He attended
church. He continued to attend church,

503
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:15.199
and that's a good thing, right, And he even became a pastor at

504
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:19.679
his church known as the christ Community
Fellowship Church. It was right there in

505
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.880
town. It really did seem like
he was making moves for the better and

506
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.159
he was trying. So he also
met a woman. Her name was Sally

507
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:34.039
Gay, and the two of them
hit it off. They blended into each

508
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:37.960
other's lives well. And even her
daughter, Rebecca bonded with John. He

509
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:42.800
was like a step bother to her
and they really enjoyed each other's company.

510
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:45.960
Now, as a woman, I'm
gonna be honest and say I would have

511
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:52.440
been concerned about John's past. Even
Christine, John's sister, was surprised at

512
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:58.079
the relationship he was now in considering
his past. She even took it upon

513
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:02.119
herself to go talk to and say, look, you know, are you

514
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.840
aware of my brother's misgivings in the
past. Do you know about his history?

515
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:10.679
And Sally assured her yes, I
am aware. But listen, John

516
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.920
really is a changed man and she
felt confident in him as a man and

517
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:22.880
as her future husband. That's right. John was so smitten with Sally that

518
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:29.320
he even proposed to her and things
really were coming together for the pair.

519
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:34.079
Tragedy would strike the couple before they
were able to get married, though,

520
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:39.400
when Sally's twenty four year old daughter, Rebecca, suddenly vanished on Halloween of

521
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:44.719
twenty twelve. So I want to
describe Becca to you. I feel the

522
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.320
urge to call her Becca for sure. Maybe it's because we have a family

523
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:51.000
member that lives in Florida. We
call re Becca and she just had a

524
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.320
baby. She's also in law enforcement, by the way, So hey,

525
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.360
Becca, if you're listening. But
re Becca in this story, y'all,

526
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:02.320
she is beautiful. I'm so serious. She's so pretty. She's a blonde.

527
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:07.079
She's got these light eyes. They
look blue to me, and they're

528
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.639
almond shaped. She has this little
nose it's cute, I mean literally cute

529
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:16.159
as a button. And she has
a really small frame. She's just precious,

530
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:21.920
and she has this light in her
eyes and a sparkle of youth that

531
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.119
I think we all can admire.
I'm gonna post pictures of her too on

532
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:30.360
my Patreon. She was a two
thousand graduate of Bullock Creek High School,

533
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.719
and the more I read about her, the more I liked her. I

534
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:38.880
found out that she was a proud
member of the equestrian team and her dream

535
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:45.360
was to study cosmatology. And obviously
I never had the privilege of meeting young

536
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:50.800
Becca, but from all accounts,
she was kind and she was more on

537
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:57.320
the quiet side. I also feel
her competitiveness, okay, and that the

538
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:01.320
things I read about her said that
along with her equestrian skills, she also

539
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:07.039
loved to volunteer to help the less
fortunate. But it wasn't by just dropping

540
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.280
money in a bucket, no,
okay. Becca volunteered to compete in her

541
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:16.559
school's archery shoot, and she had
this goal of raising money for families in

542
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.079
need when tragedy strikes. There was
a spunk about this one. Ladies and

543
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:28.119
gentlemen, She had a kind heart
and that can't be overlooked. After high

544
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:32.480
school, she continued to pursue that
cosmetology dream, and she would even graduate

545
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:38.320
from in Session School of Cosmatology.
So she would work at a place called

546
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.679
bo Rick's Hair Care, but she
then would become employed at the good Will

547
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:49.280
store in Mount Pleasant And she was
just a winner that even at the young

548
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:54.679
age of twenty four, she was
moved up and promoted to management. Okay,

549
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:59.440
the girl had it going on.
She was the heart and soul of

550
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:06.559
her family, and she was so
incredibly valued and loved, especially by her

551
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:12.880
baby boy. She loved that baby
boy more than life and she was determined

552
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:19.039
to give him a life that he
would be proud of. Something else about

553
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.840
her, She always put others before
herself. And I love when families give

554
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.519
nicknames to people. I love the
stories behind them. Like my dad always

555
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.920
called me tug a boat, not
tug boat. You got to add the

556
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:35.760
uh tug a boat. And he
said he called me tug a boat because

557
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:37.400
I was always on my sister's heels, pushing her, you know, like

558
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.639
a tugboat. I guess. But
they call my sister booger. I can't

559
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:45.440
speak on why. I can't say
she's been snotty to me before. She'll

560
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.960
probably get mad at me about that, but whatever. Uh, I don't

561
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.119
know why they called her booger.
But Becca was known to her family as

562
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:58.280
Becca Boo, all right, little
Becca Boo. She was also loved by

563
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.079
a fiance and he was playing on
marrying her and they were going to build

564
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:07.800
a life together. And miss Becca
was young. She was thriving, and

565
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:12.440
she was making her way in this
world. So the fact that she would

566
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:16.320
just up and disappear was just extremely
unlike her. She was devoted to her

567
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:22.039
baby boy, she had parents that
adored her, she had two brothers and

568
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:24.920
a sister that she was close with. She wasn't flaky. This was wrong.

569
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:30.280
It was very out of character,
okay. And she was initially reported

570
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:35.360
missing by her co workers at Goodwill
in Mount Pleasant, and they would even

571
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.679
go searching for her because they were
so upset. Never underestimate your coworkers,

572
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:43.960
you know those like strange relationships you
make at work when you're like twenty and

573
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.880
you have a sixty two year old
besty named you know, like Harold,

574
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:50.079
and when he calls in you're worried
about him. It's like those funny relationships.

575
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.719
Well, Rebecca's co workers cared about
her, and they were the ones

576
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:57.360
who ended up actually finding her car, which was parked in the parking lot

577
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:01.199
of a bar called the Barn Door
on the corner of Coldwater and M twenty.

578
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:06.239
And like I said, Becca wasn't
one that was just gonna up and

579
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:10.760
leave. And she was a mother. She absolutely adored and lived for her

580
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:15.400
baby boy. His name was Conway. He was a cute, little blondheaded

581
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:17.880
thing. He was about three years
old and he needed his mommy, and

582
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:22.760
his mommy loved him. So both
Sally and John right, her mom and

583
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:27.760
soon to be stepfather, were stunned
at her being missing, and they even

584
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:32.719
turned to the congregation of their church
for support. Pastor John stood before them

585
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.800
all and he begged for their prayers
to God Almighty for her safe return.

586
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:42.880
It was a devastating blow to them, and Rebecca was also a church member

587
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.000
there, so these people prayed fervently
for her to be found. So as

588
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:51.760
the prayers were sent up in bulk
to heaven, police were searching the earth

589
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:58.039
for a sign or a trace of
Rebecca. The last place Becca was known

590
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.519
to have been was her little house
trailer located in a trailer park with a

591
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:06.639
bunch of other ones. It sat
just eleven miles west of Mount Pleasant on

592
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:12.679
South Coldwater Road, and it was
known as the Broomfield Valley Trailer Park.

593
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:15.480
So I looked it up because I
was just kind of curious what it looked

594
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:16.639
like, and it was a nice
little trailer park. It had a paved

595
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:21.159
road. It was built in the
nineteen sixties and it was just something that

596
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.280
a young single mother would be able
to afford. Another benefit, too,

597
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:30.440
was that her soon to be stepdad
and pastor lived in there too. John

598
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.599
lived in there, and despite his
misgivings in the past, he and Rebecca

599
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:38.199
had a good relationship and he was
always there to help her out. Oftentimes

600
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:44.199
with little Conrad, he would babysit, he would take him here and there,

601
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:50.079
basically being an additional helper, right
because the young mom was trying to

602
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:52.360
do good, better her life for
her son, and after all, it

603
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:57.800
takes a village. Police questioned the
neighbors and the acquaintances of her, and

604
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.480
they were just trying to establish,
basically in an timeline of events. But

605
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:07.840
the only real solid information as to
her known movements was that it was Halloween

606
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:12.599
and John had seen her when he
helped her to get Conway dressed in his

607
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:16.559
little Halloween costume, and then he
dropped little Conway off with his biological father

608
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:21.280
in a grocery store parking lot.
He likes those grocery stores, doesn't he.

609
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:28.320
This obviously made the pastor somewhat of
interest because he was the last person

610
00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:31.559
to have seen Rebecca. So the
police, you know, After they interviewed

611
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:35.679
everyone in the trailer park and came
up with nothing, John was needed for

612
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.760
more questioning, and so he made
his way to the sheriff's station, where

613
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:43.400
he told them all that he knew, which really wasn't much. He helped

614
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.519
get Conway in his costume, and
then he delivered him to his dad.

615
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:51.679
Then he went home. That was
it. He hadn't heard or seen anything

616
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:57.760
beyond that. Just like the other
neighbors. And like I said, John

617
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:00.760
and Becca had a great father daughter
like relation. And you know, he

618
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:07.199
agreed to often dress Conrad in the
morning, multiple mornings, whenever she would

619
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.480
be going to work. He loved
that boy, and he wanted to help

620
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:15.119
find his future stepdaughter in any way
that he could. So after that questioning,

621
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.400
he even reached out to the church
and he pled to the members of

622
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:22.280
the church, y'all pray because we
haven't found her. She's not here.

623
00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:28.199
Police kept looking for her, but
it wouldn't be long before they would finally

624
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:31.480
know the truth of what happened.
But when I say not long, I

625
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:39.079
think everything's relative, because for nearly
twenty hours of pain, anguish, and

626
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:47.559
excruciating uncertainty, twenty hours would pass
for that gay family who so desperately wanted

627
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.199
their beca boo back. You know, was she scared? Was she hurt?

628
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:57.679
Was she calling out for them and
feeling all alone? I never want

629
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:01.679
to feel the way her family must
have been feeled that raw emotion and that

630
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:07.800
suffering of the unknown. For twenty
hours, they had no clue, but

631
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:15.400
the answer would come soon enough.
When police further questioned their closest to Becca

632
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:22.880
Pastor White, he would give some
new eye opening perspective on the whereabouts of

633
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:31.639
Becca. After questioning a bit further, he admitted that his pastor facade was

634
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:39.719
starting to slip, and that he
had been sexually aroused and fueled by these

635
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:46.199
fantasies he was having. But it's
not exactly about Becca. It was actually

636
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:53.400
about engaging in sex with dead women, those same things he was wanting to

637
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:59.679
do when he was incarcerated. He
further told the police that he had been

638
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:07.440
freaking quitting a psycho thriller website that
entertained people by showing videos of women being

639
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:15.920
murdered. Yes entertainment, he said. Beyond that unbelievable thought of being entertained

640
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:21.880
by watching women be murdered, he
said it was fueling his his fantasies of

641
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.639
having sex with these dead bodies.
He needed a dead body, he wanted

642
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:30.679
to have sex with it. So
police continued to tactically interview John White as

643
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:37.199
he gave up bits and pieces of
information. Slowly and methodically, a picture,

644
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:45.679
and a brutal picture began to take
shape. John eventually admitted that these

645
00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:52.360
films from those websites had been fueling
further bad thoughts for about two weeks,

646
00:53:52.440 --> 00:54:00.400
he said, and now that desire
for a dead body had motivated him into

647
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:07.039
a strong lust for Rebecca's dead body, and it had to end by him

648
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:14.840
having sex with her dead body.
So police continued to push, and that's

649
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:19.719
when John White explained that in the
early morning hours of Halloween, he was

650
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.960
at home drinking beer and he had
a bunch of direct quote natty daddies,

651
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:30.480
as he referred to them, roughly
four to five twenty four ounce natural light

652
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:37.679
beers, and that's when his lust
overtook him. He got up, he

653
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:40.840
grabbed a mallet and a zip tie, a large one. It was about

654
00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:47.280
two am. He walked over to
the home of his unsuspecting prey and he

655
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:52.119
watched her bedroom light light up.
After he knocked on the door. Baby

656
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:59.599
Conrad was still asleep, and Rebecca
came to the door. John would often

657
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:01.800
help dress him, as I mentioned
before, as she prepared for work,

658
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:07.760
so this would not have been completely
out of the normal. Becca walked to

659
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:12.159
a side door where John was and
he entered the trailer, and at some

660
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:16.000
point Becca turned and she looked out
of the door window, and that's when

661
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:21.960
he saw his moment. So he
raised that mallet and he brought it down,

662
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:28.239
slamming it into the head of not
only that young mother, but his

663
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:34.960
future stepdaughter. And he continued to
bash her about the head several times until

664
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:40.079
she collapsed and she lost consciousness.
All of this, according to court records.

665
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.239
While this horrific scene played out,
it wasn't enough for him though.

666
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:52.320
The blood and the lust was too
much. It turns out that he hadn't

667
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:57.840
killed her, and he noticed that
because she was still breathing. This wasn't

668
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.199
the fantasy though, right he wanted
to have sex with her dead body.

669
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:07.000
He came prepared for that because that
was exactly what he wanted to happen.

670
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:13.199
You remember that zip tie. He
then placed it around her neck as there

671
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.800
was still life in her, the
chance to save her was still there,

672
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:22.800
the chance to stop himself and remember
all that that bible he had been preaching

673
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:27.719
for the last few years had said. But no, he was lusting like

674
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:31.800
a depraved animal. So he put
the zip tie around her neck, and

675
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:37.519
he tightened it, and he tightened
it, and he got tighter and tighter

676
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:42.320
until all of the blood flow ceased, and the light in her eyes faded

677
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:47.719
away, and she was suffocated to
death. After he was sure that she

678
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:54.119
was dead, that she was gone
no more to hold her child or to

679
00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:00.199
hug her mother, he grabbed her
and he dragged her dead body into the

680
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:06.440
kitchen area, where he undressed her. Now it's at this point that he

681
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:12.440
advised police he didn't remember having sex
with her. Bull bucking shit. Of

682
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.320
course you do. It was the
whole reason you were there. Your body

683
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:22.079
didn't just shut down at the moment
of the coup de gras. You raped

684
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:27.039
her, You raped her dead body
you meant to, and you enjoyed every

685
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:30.519
last second of it. You know, this isn't a damn soap opera where

686
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.679
you get conveniently, you know,
a rush of amnesia. At the sickest

687
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.000
moment, he remembered it all,
and I firmly believe that with every ounce

688
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:46.159
of my soul. So after he
pleasured himself with her lifeless body in which

689
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:51.440
she could not defend herself, he
went back home. He got a roll

690
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.679
of construction sized garbage bags, and
then he just walked right on back to

691
00:57:54.719 --> 00:58:00.039
her house. There, as her
precious baby boy slept in that adjacent room,

692
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:06.119
he wrapped her body, her clothing, and all of the bloody towels

693
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:09.880
in a bag. He also grabbed
that mallet and he put that inside,

694
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:15.719
and then he loaded it all into
the bed of his truck. He had

695
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.079
used the items for which he felt
that they were worth, and now it

696
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.199
was time for him to go get
rid of the trash. He drove away,

697
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:27.960
leaving baby Conrad alone in the trailer, and he dumped the towels and

698
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:32.920
a mallet on Woodrough Road. And
then he continued further where he found the

699
00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:38.760
perfect spot that he dumped Becca's body
and it would be left on the southeast

700
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:44.800
corner of Pickered and Cold Water Road. And his work here was done.

701
00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:49.719
He could smoke a cigarette and relax, But then again he wanted to do

702
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:52.719
something a little bit further, just
to make sure it looked like she had

703
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:57.360
left at some point, right,
So he went back to her house and

704
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.320
got her car, and that's when
he drove it to the bar where it

705
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:04.039
would later be found by her co
workers. And his hopes were that the

706
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:08.639
police would believe she had been kidnapped. So to add to that false narrative,

707
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:15.320
the pastor took her personal belongings,
that she would never leave home without

708
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:19.039
her purse, her phone, her
car keys, and then he went and

709
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:22.599
he threw those in the dumpster at
the trailer park, which was stupid in

710
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:25.000
my humble opinion, and that if
she were kidnapped and her car was taken,

711
00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:28.320
why would the car be at the
bar and the keys we back at

712
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:35.239
the dumpster at home? Common sense
Regardless, police followed up immediately on everything

713
00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:40.239
John said in his admissions, and
they found exactly everything where he said that

714
00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:45.480
they would be. Rebecca's lifeless body
was dumped and it was found in a

715
00:59:45.559 --> 00:59:49.880
ditch behind some pine trees about a
mile like I said, from her mobile

716
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:57.119
home. Then the chameleon of a
man, the woman abusing, murdering false

717
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:01.800
pastor of God's word, returned to
rebecca home and then did exactly what he

718
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:06.639
had told police in his first statement, he woke up baby Conrad, he

719
01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:09.199
got him dressed in his little Halloween
costume, and then brought him to his

720
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:14.320
daddy at a grocery store, pretending
to care about the little fella, when

721
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:20.320
in all actuality, he was simply
using him as a cover story. After

722
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.159
John White admitted to what he had
done, he was promptly arrested and he

723
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:29.039
would go to trial for the murder
of Rebecca Gay. In April of twenty

724
01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:34.800
thirteen, he was sentenced to fifty
six years in prison, and at the

725
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:39.079
sentencing, Rebecca's mother, Sally,
she spoke up and her words, really,

726
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:45.840
I felt like in my heart for
twenty excruciating hours, we prayed that

727
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:52.400
Rebecca would come home. She was
not yours to take. How dare you?

728
01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:57.679
She then said that her family was
devastated by the death of what she

729
01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:01.679
referred to Becca as the Fai family's
heart and soul. And she brought up

730
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:06.079
again too, that the one who
would suffer the most was the one who

731
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:08.599
couldn't even speak up. It was
her baby boy, Conrad, who is

732
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:15.079
now four years old. Miss Sally
later said that John wasn't the person she

733
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:17.519
knew before he killed her daughter,
and this is where I see it a

734
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:21.880
little different. She has all the
right and I have none. Okay,

735
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:25.199
I know that. However, experience
tells me that more likely than not,

736
01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:31.239
she never knew John, only what
he chose to show her. She was

737
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:36.800
a good woman and she was taken
advantage of by a monster in plain sight,

738
01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:40.760
you know. Admitting his crimes over
and over somehow it disarmed people.

739
01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:47.079
But admitting and repenting are different,
right, Admitting doesn't make me forget like

740
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:51.800
it does some. If anything,
it makes me more aware. Two women

741
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:58.000
were abused and killed before he even
met Becca. Two he was given a

742
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:01.599
slap on the wrist for both.
He he manipulated, and he used the

743
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:06.480
system in those cases, just like
he did the people he came in contact

744
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.880
with. His own sister said after
the trial that John always had a story

745
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:15.840
and people always believed him. This
is why people think I'm mean. I

746
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.440
mean, I'm not mean, y'all. I'm living in the reality that people

747
01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:24.000
are dangerous and their word these days
it doesn't mean shit. Look around.

748
01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:29.159
Look at the crime rates, look
at the recidivism rates. Listen to the

749
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:37.000
story had just told you enough is
enough. And Becca's mama also said something

750
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.159
else that I want to quote directly, because she hit the nail on the

751
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:44.960
head. John White is receiving more
rights than our daughter, who was a

752
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:49.960
law abiding citizen. When he was
previously released from prison. He was the

753
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:57.000
equivalent of a starving lion, yes, ma'am, a predator who only needed

754
01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:01.119
time and pray y'all. He got
both. He got both over and over

755
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:07.039
again, fortunately for US taxpayers.
Though, his leechment on society wouldn't last

756
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:12.000
long, because on August twenty eighth
of twenty thirteen, John White was found

757
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.000
hanging in his prison cell just after
four am. According to the reports,

758
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:20.960
they did try to save him,
but he was already dead. John's own

759
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:24.480
son from a previous relationship said he
was completely crazy until the end. His

760
01:03:24.559 --> 01:03:30.119
own son said it. John White
once told the fourteen members at the christ

761
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:35.280
Community Fellowship Church, this is a
quote right. We need to check closely

762
01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:38.920
the seeds we sprout in ourselves.
Nothing can be hidden from God. Well.

763
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:44.360
John used religion to cover his evil
ways, no doubt, and he

764
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:49.119
was able to abuse and kill multiple
women, always claiming a reason for his

765
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.559
action. It was never his fault
or a loophole worked in his favor.

766
01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:58.360
And he's a prime example of why
I do this podcast. Because these situations

767
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:02.960
continued to happen day in and day
out all over the world. I have

768
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:10.000
personally been in the presence of evil
more than people will probably ever read about

769
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.960
in their lifetime. These victims are
real, They are real people like you

770
01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:17.280
and me, and for that,
I'm gonna continue to say what I want

771
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:23.000
until someone beats my ass, and
then I'm gonna keep saying it with a

772
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:24.440
black eye.