Frenemies Part 2 | The Murders of Johnny Clarke & Lisa Straub

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims, whose cases are
so shocking that many are left wondering how

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is this even real? I use
my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and

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combined with my years as a criminal
justice educator, dig deep into complex cases

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of evil acts, some so evil
many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences.
If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is
advised. Hey, y'all, kJ back

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here for an another episode of Unspeakable. What have you been up to?

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What have you been doing? I've
been doing so much, y'all. Went

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on a vacation. I did.
I was posting it online. I'm back

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from my vacation. We had so
much fun. I took all my churans,

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my husband and I. We went
to to Disney World, and we

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went to Universal and went we went
and saw family and it was such a

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good time. So, hey,
we all need a minute to get back

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and relax and take time to renew
right and then get back in the ball

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game. Well, guess what.
Speaking of ball games, y'all know,

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I'm an LSU fan, don't come
at me. And we got some games

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going on today right in the College
World Series, and I'm excited to be

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watching that. But look, I
gotta tell y'all something real quick. When

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I was in Disney, I don't
know why things always happened to me,

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but I have to share this with
y'all because I was so so I don't

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even know what the word is.
I was so wounded emotionally. We were

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standing in line at the the Seven
Dwarfs ride. I was so excited.

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It was hot when we had like
an hour wait, and I'm sweating and

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I'm just sitting there, just kind
of thinking about whatever it is I think

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about. And next thing I know, I feel on my elbow, also

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known as the weeness. If you
didn't know that, the squishy part of

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your elbows, your weenness. Anyway, I felt someone lick my weenness.

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So I turn around because I'm like, what in the hell, and there

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is a little, short, fat
ten to eleven year old boy staring at

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me. So I just stared back
because I don't care what you think you

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would do. You don't know what
you would do when you have your weenness

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licked by someone. You don't know, and then then you turn around as

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a child. So I just I
grabbed my elbow, like what did you

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just do? But y'all, he
didn't even break eye contact. He just

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stared at me and I stared at
him, and he never budged. He

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just stared at me. And I
turned around with deer in the headlights,

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and my husband said, what's wrong? And I was like, the kid

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just licked my elbow, Oh my
god. And he was like why and

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I was like, I don't know. It didn't ask him to lick the

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weenest. I just he did.
And I was so wounded, upset,

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scared and angry. I didn't even
know what to do. But this much

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I will tell y'all in ten years, when the weenest elbow licking rapist hits

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town somewhere, I want you to
know. I was his first victim,

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and it was uncomfortable. So y'all, protect your elbows at all costs if

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you go on vacation, because you'd
never know what might happen to him.

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All right, So now you know
that happened, and I'm just uncomfortable about

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it. But while I was on
vacation, I also got some new Patron

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members and I wanted to say hello
to them. And look, it's more

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ladies. I love this. The
girls are showing up for true crime right.

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But we've got miss Brandy Mayred,
Hey Brandy, how are you doing?

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Thank you so much for joining the
Patron group. I'm gonna be putting

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so much more content online. I'm
gonna start blogging a lot more too,

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because all of my little shenanigans that
happened. You can bet if I shennan

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once, I will Shenanigan. There
will be lots of Shenanigans. So y'all

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stay tuned. Andy, y'all check
on there. I'm gonna be putting a

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lot more on there. Kelly Ratcliffe, Hey girl, I like that first

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name. Hey, hey, hey, thank you for joining my podcast and

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for being part of the family.
Miss Julie Kaiser, how are you doing,

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Miss Julie. Thank you so so
much for joining and for being part

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of the team. I've also got
Miss Tammy Hill, Hey girl, how

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you during? How are you during? Miss Tammy? And then, last,

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but certainly not least, I've got
Miss Cindy Night. I see you,

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Miss Cindy, I see you on
there. Thank you so much for

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joining, and I look forward to
being able to share a whole lot more

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with y'all online and on Facebook.
Make sure you're checking my my posts because

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I put a lot of pictures about
the victims and stories and little um tidbits

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that you might like to see.
I love putting a face to a victim.

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I love being able to say this
is a real person. So y'all

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tune in look on there if you
don't, if you're not on Facebook,

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join and just look me up.
Unspeakable, a true crime podcast by Kelly

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Jennings, and I interact with you. That's me on there. I do

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not have my team or anyone answering
you. That is one hundred percent me

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every time I speak to you,
so you can know that it's not just

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someone pretending to be me like some
people may do. No, ma'am,

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that's not me. All right,
So let's get back into this. We

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were doing the Johnny Clark and Lisa
Straw murders that we called fhrenemies, So

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this is gonna be Frenemies Part dih
right. The second part, Now,

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just a little rewind because it's been
a week, right since you've heard anything

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about this. But remember they were
two young lovers that we're looking over the

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Lisa's parents house. They were gone
on a cruise to celebrate their anniversary,

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and then they stopped answering their phones. A friend got pretty nervous about that

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because Johnny and Lisa were supposed to
go pick them up, and so they

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went down to the house. When
they got to the house, nobody was

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answering. It just seemed weird.
Johnny's parents showed up. Mom mighte called

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when one not once but twice,
and then on the third call she was

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panicked and said, oh my god, my child is dead. They have

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bags over their heads. Help right, all right? Well, then,

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just another quick part of the recap
was there were a couple of sketchy people.

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This girl named Alex Casino was interviewed, some other people were interviewed,

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and they ended up finding a cigarette. But at the scene they did some

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DNA testing and boom, they got
two DNA profiles back and those two guys

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kind of became suspects, all right. Now, Before that happened, Anthony

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Watson had told the police that Johnny
and he were planning to meet up but

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it got too late, and that, you know, things just were kind

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of going strange, and there was
a lot of phone calls going on,

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and then he testified to or not
testified, but he spoke to the police

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and ended up getting murdered right outside
of his apartment complex. And you know,

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his murder has never been solved,
which kind of was sketchy, af

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right, because what is that about. So now where we're picking up,

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it's September twenty second, twenty eleven, and the prime DNA suspect, his

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name was Sam Williams, is doing
what punk ass wannabes do. Okay,

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a whole bunch of nothing, you
know what I'm talking about. Those people

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that are wannabes, they say they're
thugs, but really, when it comes

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to being a thug, it's more
like, I don't have a job.

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I like to smoke cigarette smoke.
We lay around the house and bump off

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of other people. But I'm a
you know, true king. You know

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exactly the type of people I'm talking
about. All Right, Well, that

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day he slept in late, and
he had invited some friends over and they

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were gonna go play video games,
right, because that's what thugs do.

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They play video games and they smoke
cigarettes. But he ran out of the

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rats, y'all. He ran out
of cigarettes, and so he said,

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you know what, I need to
get some more because his habit three packs

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a day, three packs of cigarettes
a day. I wouldn't have time to

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smoke three cigarette three packs of cigarettes
a day if I tried. You know

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why, Because I'm busy and I
work and I contribute to society. I

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digress, all right. So his
brother agreed to buy him a pack of

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cigarettes if he would go to the
store with them. So as they get

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to the store and Williams is crossing
the street to get into his car,

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guess who shows up? The US
Marshals And they do what they do.

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They were kicking ass and they were
taking names, and so the marked cars

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came rolling up. The US Marshals, along with the detectives that were on

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this case, had guns drawn and
they took his ass into custody. They

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said, come with me, sir, put on these pretty bracelets. We

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got somewhere for you. Now,
it turns out that leeches of society tend

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to be multi multifaceted in their repertoire
of stupidity. Okay, because it turns

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out that he actually had a warrant
for one of and let me say that

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again. One of his domestic violence
cases that he was on probation four.

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So not only is he a punk
ass want to be thug, he also

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beats women. What a winner?
Jesus. All right, well, it

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turns out you may him beat women, but you can't beat the system play

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because they got your ass. Okay. So they took him into custody.

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And when they did, okay,
and I need y'all to hear this,

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because this is very, very sad. His complaint wasn't for the victims of

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his domestic violence cases. No,
no, no, that was not what

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his complaint was. When they took
him into custody. He was actually upset

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for himself, okay, so check
selfish off the list as well. In

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his own words, he said,
and I quote, I've got thirty days

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in jail. I don't want to
do the probation. That's what he said.

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I have thirty days in jail.
I don't want to do the probation.

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When the US marshals were putting the
handcuffs on him, he said,

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you really, this is a quote. You really come and get people from

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misdemeanor domestic violence cases. Yeah,
buddy, that's why they were there for

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a misdemeanor. They found you so
important that they came after you for a

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misdemeanor. Get the fuck out of
here, dude. You know that they're

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not common to get you for a
misdemeanor. You ain't nobody, You are

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nobody. Okay. It sounds more
like you trying to establish your ignorance to

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the fact that something huge went down
while you were smoking your cigarette on the

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scene. Aha, correct, remember
the cigarette butted scene on the scene of

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the murders. All right. So
later at the Sheriff's department, he also

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had another complaint that he wanted to
file with Detective Jeff Kozak. You know

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what he was mad about. Do
you know what this thug was mad about.

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He was mad about the rough treatment
he received when he was handcuffed.

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They hurt him, He got a
bobo. So just to clarify what put

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in here has been about so far, okay, he's been charged three times

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for domestic violence, and domestic violence
is going to play in here, and

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you'll see in a minute, even
though you know this wasn't the traditional domestic

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violence killing, it will play a
role, all right. He's been charged

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three times for domestic violence. In
two thousand and six, he was found

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guilty of threatening to kill the victim
of his domestic violence case. In two

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thousand and seven, he was involved
in a fight and charged with felonious assault

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after punching a man. And by
the way, felonious assault is different than

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assault. Felonious assault means you hurt
somebody. Okay, you broke a nose,

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you broke an eye socket, like
you caused them immense paint. It

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wasn't just a little bitch slap across
the face. Okay, he hurt them.

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And then in two and ten,
he was found guilty of pushing his

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ex wife to the ground and bite
her wrist. Have you ever in your

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life? What animal is this?
Tell me about yourself, sir? I

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can see his profile online, his
dating profile. I like long walks on

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the beach and I'll beat your ass, I'll bite your wrist, I'll smoke

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cigarettes, and I'll whoop your ass
in a video game like what the hell

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man? And then in twenty eleven, before Johnny and Lisa's murder, he

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was found guilty of going to his
ex wife's house, kicking in the door

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and threatening to send the woman in
his car that he had with him in

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to beat her up. So he
likes to involve other people in his crimes

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too, but he was mad about
the rough treatment he received, Like you

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literally could not make this up.
He's always the victim so far. God,

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this is what he said. Quote, if you would have sent me

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something in the mail, I would
have come down. You didn't have to

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humiliate me like that, y'all.
What in the hell he's humiliated? He's

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humiliated? Wow? God, I
mean, why haven't the police thought of

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this so far? Jimothy, Jimothy, I need you to hand me the

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phone. I'm gonna call our sheriff
right now. Okay, I'm gonna call

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our sheriff, ring Ring, Hey, sheriff, Hey, Look, why

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don't you just start sending letters to
the criminals and they'll show up. I

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mean, what if you would have
sent me a letter? Dude doesn't even

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have a house, your CouchSurfing bro, Like, what are you doing?

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I mean, I know that sounds
like a subpoena in all right, but

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I mean, just a letter.
Why are you so mean? Sheriffs?

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Why don't y'all just send letters?
Why do you have to go after these

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guys in handcuff them. I cannot
handle criminals like this. Get out of

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here, all right? Come on, bro, you knew this was bigger

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than that misdemeanor warrant. And we
know this because suddenly he shifted his thinking

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to defending himself against a promoting prostitution
case that he was also involved with with

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his girlfriend. So he will beat
your ass and he will pimp you out.

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That's what I was looking for when
I got married. I was like,

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look, Blake, I'm not going
to marry you unless you beat my

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ass and pimp me out. Not
like, why do women deal with this?

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Please? If you're in a relationship
where this guy, where you get

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out of here? All right?
So you know how kids will like word

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vomit and they'll tell you telling themselves
because they assume that you know more than

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you actually do. My kids do
that all the time. Well, okay,

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here is exhibit A all right of
that happening. So eleven minutes into

204
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.600
his interview with detectives, they just
dropped pictures of Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub

205
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.480
on the table in front of Williams. Now, remember, his whole thing

206
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:46.720
was, oh, y'all were mean
to me, and you humiliated me and

207
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:52.759
arresting me for a you know,
a misdemeanor domestic battery charge. Then when

208
00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.600
he gets in the car and gets
up there, they and realize as oh

209
00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.840
wait, maybe this is worse.
Then he starts defending himself against pimping out

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00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:03.080
his girlfriend. Eleven minutes in,
they dropped those pictures on there on the

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00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:09.120
table and he looks at him.
Now, I'm gonna just say, while

212
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.960
domestic violence, drugs, and prostitution
are clearly frowned upon, that wasn't while

213
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.639
he was in custody. But they
were very, very interested in what happened

214
00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.919
on the night of January thirtieth,
twenty eleven at the Straw residence. Now,

215
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.120
during an hour long interview, Williams
told detectives six times that he did

216
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.559
not want to talk. All right
now, saying you don't want to talk

217
00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.440
and ask him for a lawyer or
different So don't come at me on that,

218
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.519
all right. Saying I don't want
to talk is childish. Saying I

219
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.039
want a lawyer is establishing that you
now want to be, you know,

220
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.679
have representation. But he said he
didn't want to talk, and at one

221
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.600
point one of the detectives like roared
at him, tell me why your DNA

222
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.159
is at my crime scene? Because
I'm gonna tell y'all something. If I

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00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.559
wouldn't add a murder, I am
going to be just out the box,

224
00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.879
crazy, screaming what are you talking
about? Check my phone records? Go

225
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.960
look here, Go do that.
Go go check a camera somewhere. I

226
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.399
mean, you're on camera twenty sometimes
a day statistically. But what did he

227
00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:14.039
do? He crossed his arms like
the big tough guy is, and he

228
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.840
refused to talk, and then finally
he did ask for an attorney. So

229
00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.519
off to jail he goes right for
his three hots and a cot. He's

230
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.600
charged with the murders of John and
Lisa. Johnny and Lisa. Now this

231
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.960
is where things kind of get a
little interesting. So from Marion County or

232
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:33.440
Marion Correctional Institute, Williams did talk
to a local news agency they were called

233
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.399
eleven Investigates for nearly an hour while
he was there. And this was a

234
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.080
direct quote from him. I have
been incarcerated before, and I know murder

235
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.840
cases. This is his language.
By the way, there are grammatical errors

236
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.159
and they are not mine. I'm
quoting. I've been incarcerated before. And

237
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.039
I know murder cases is a very
serious crime. I didn't know if they

238
00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.559
were using DNA as a scare tactic
to get me to talk. But I

239
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.879
knew if I talked to my attorney, I'd find out more information, all

240
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.679
right. Well, to me,
I found that statement a little bit odd

241
00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.640
because if I would, like I
said, if I was wrongly accused and

242
00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:11.640
charged with two murders I didn't commit, there's no in hell DNA evidence would

243
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.000
scare me. It wouldn't scare me
if I did not go somewhere and commit

244
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.200
murder. Then you can make up
fake DNA evidence in my face all day

245
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.160
long, and I'm a laugh in
yours. I wasn't there. It didn't

246
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:27.640
happen, so it wouldn't scare me
like none zero. If I wasn't there,

247
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.240
my DNA is not there period beginning
in in totality. That's the end

248
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:38.240
of it. But instead he says
I knew if I talked to an attorney,

249
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.759
I could find out more. To
me, that's taking an angle,

250
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.279
right, It's the cat and mouse
game. His tactic was clear, he

251
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.440
said it himself. I knew if
I talked to my attorney, I'd find

252
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:53.039
out more accurate information, and what
he is saying though, is hey,

253
00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:56.559
I got an attorney to find out
what all DNA they have against me?

254
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.400
You see the different It's not do
they have my DNA? Why would they

255
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:04.440
have my DNA? It's what all
DNA do they have? He wanted to

256
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:11.079
find out more. There were no
adamant denials and there was no innocence being

257
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.319
proclaimed there. He's like blase about
the whole ordeal. I would be out

258
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.759
of my mind, enraged. I
would become like a caged animal because I

259
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:23.480
wasn't there someone would be able to
vouch for me. Hell, all you'd

260
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.160
have to, honestly do is go
to hobby Lobby or go to Belk,

261
00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.440
which is a local department store that
I love, and look at the video

262
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.880
camera because I'm there that's where I'm
at. Or I'm in the backyard porche

263
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.880
playing with my squirrel. I'm not
murdering people. He doesn't do that,

264
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.079
all right, So let's go forward
a little bit. We have some jailhouse

265
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:48.799
calls that come into play. Almost
immediately getting out of his interview with detectives,

266
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:53.920
Williams begins making phone calls from the
county jail, and the first call

267
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.440
he made was to his nephew named
Chris at eight forty five pm, and

268
00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.920
at one point william tells him quote, I fucked up. I'm going to

269
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:10.000
be in here for a long time. I thought you didn't know anything about

270
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:15.799
it. Kind of weird. Now
what did he mean by I fed up?

271
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.559
All right? Because this is kind
of like Clinton depends on what the

272
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.759
definition of is is you remember when
he said that? All right? According

273
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:30.000
to Williams, he says that he
was angry that he had significant amounts of

274
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.920
drugs in his home and he was
worried it would be stolen before he could

275
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:40.119
sell it to be used to hire
an attorney. That's what he meant by

276
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:49.079
that. He was angry that his
criminal activity wouldn't fay for his criminal activity

277
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.680
to be defended. All right.
So during the conversation with his nephew,

278
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:57.559
Sam explains how he should climb a
pole, get on the back of the

279
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.559
roof and push the air conditioner to
get into the house and to get his

280
00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.160
drugs. All right. So he's
trying to find a way, I guess

281
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.039
to sell sell his drugs. Now. In a later call, he calls

282
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:18.039
his friend named Looney, I cannot
express to you how unimpressed. I am

283
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:23.920
with the names these people get on
the street, Like, what would you

284
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:30.640
want your street name to be?
I remember one time a criminal who was

285
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.839
doing serial, non penetrating rapes being
referred to as the dry hump rapist,

286
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:40.240
and I almost fell out of my
chair laughing, like, what the I

287
00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:41.920
mean? I'd want to be like, you know, Killa kill or you

288
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.039
know, k to the M F
and J or some shit, not looney,

289
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.880
not looney, the dry hump right, Oh my god, I can't.

290
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.039
All right, So these fools are
run around here being called bumper car

291
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.240
Carl and lazy eye Pete and shit
like, come on, get a better

292
00:20:55.519 --> 00:21:02.160
name on the street. But anyway, Williams tells Looney, quote, I

293
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.599
just told my little nephew where everything
is at. Help him get rid of

294
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.279
it. Dude, I need the
money. I need a lawyer. So

295
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:14.200
when Williams was arrested on September twenty
second, he could not tell the police

296
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.839
where he was on the night of
January thirtieth. Remember that's when they were

297
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.440
killed. He says, quote,
I didn't really know where I was,

298
00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.279
how much time had elapsed eight months. I lived in the streets, so

299
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:30.279
really i'd bounced from house to house
at that moment, I couldn't tell where

300
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:34.559
I was, he says. So
Williams then starts claiming that he was able

301
00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.559
to look back at his phone records, and he says family and friends were

302
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.960
able to look back at social media
for him and determined that he was at

303
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:47.720
the bottom Line Bar on Navar Avenue
on the East Side. Now this is

304
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.160
when he says, I know I
was at the bottom Line Bar watching the

305
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.160
Pro Bowl with a few other people. One of the people was Destiny Madrid,

306
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.240
the girl who got arrested in my
case, my cousin Larry Gilhouse was

307
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:03.720
there, and Eddie Flores was there. So in a conversation that he did

308
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:10.920
further with that with that TV news
station that eleven investigates, Flora says that

309
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.359
he was not at work until later
in the evening, but that he was

310
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:18.480
texting with Gilhouse, who says that
Sam and his son were at a birthday

311
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.839
party for his daughter. So Gilhouse
confirmed that to detectives when he was interviewed

312
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:29.000
on October twenty eighth. He said
that Sam was the only one who stayed

313
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.160
to help him clean up, so
he did have someone kind of there to

314
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.480
say well, I had a birthday
party and he did help clean up.

315
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.960
I just was kind of like,
okay, well when was the birthday party?

316
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:42.119
Because if it wasn't in the evening, then who cares if he had

317
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:47.079
a birthday party? Like if it
ended it three then okay, so what

318
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.160
so? Flora says that their texting
conversation. In their texting conversation, Gilhouse

319
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.880
told him that Sam and he were
heading up to the bar and that he

320
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.559
should meet them there. And he
said, when he got off work,

321
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.920
he headed to his cousin's house to
finished watching the Pro Bowl. Then they

322
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.319
went to the bar. And he
remembers the date because his cousin Nick turned

323
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.839
twenty one at midnight and the doorman
agreed to let him in a little early.

324
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.960
Now, a record search confirmed that
the cousin turned twenty one on January

325
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.319
thirty first, and the Pro Bowl
also took place at seven pm on January

326
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:26.839
thirtieth and ended about ten forty five
pm. So you know, his cousin

327
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.440
says, you know, Sam was
there hanging out with us. He was

328
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.000
chit chatting. He said, I've
known Sam since he was a little kid.

329
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:36.480
We closed it down. We were
all just hanging out. He added

330
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:40.200
that he has no reason to lie. If he did that, he's gonna

331
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:41.200
rot for it. Talking about the
crime. If he did it, he's

332
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.039
gonna rot for it. It is
what it is. I've known him forever.

333
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.759
But if he did that, it
was disgusting and he deserves what he

334
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.119
gets. So it's kind of interesting, right, your cousin is vouching for

335
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:53.119
you and saying, but if you
did it, you deserve a rot.

336
00:23:53.319 --> 00:24:00.240
Well, I mean, I look, we all have different experiences, and

337
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.559
we all have different ways of speaking
and explaining things, and I get that.

338
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.000
But if someone said my cousin,
I'm thinking of one cousin in particular.

339
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.319
Okay, if they say she went
and she was with me and we

340
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.200
were hanging out, but if she
did it, she deserves her roll.

341
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:17.480
I would know if she was with
me or not, and I would know

342
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.680
what she was capable of or not. Within reason, Okay, within reason.

343
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000
And this his explanation there says to
me, yeah, we were hanging

344
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.960
out, but I'm not one hundred
percent certain he didn't have the capability to

345
00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.920
go and do it after we hung
out. That's how I read that.

346
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.240
I don't know how you read it, but based on the conversation between Tiffany

347
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.039
Williams and Johnny Clark. Police believed
that Clark and strawb were attacked at ten

348
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:48.400
forty one pm, a call between
Williams and Madrid at ten twenty seven pm

349
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.920
pinged off of a cell phone tower
that was near that bottom line bar.

350
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.839
So some of the stuff he's saying
can be explained, and you can't discount

351
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.920
that. You can't say, well, we're gonna ignore that, because to

352
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.720
me, then that's not proper investigation. If it doesn't fit your narrative,

353
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.079
then you just throw it out.
I don't think that's proper investigation personally.

354
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.119
I mean, if he's pinging off
of a tower near a bar, cool.

355
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:17.920
What I don't know personally is where
that tower was in proximity to the

356
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.480
straw home, because you know,
he could have been right there on the

357
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.559
line of where the towers switched that
you ping off of them, what if

358
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.799
they were close to each other.
There's not enough information there for me personally,

359
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.440
all right. So at one point
william says he was calling Madrid to

360
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.799
see when she would get to the
bar, and in an interview with detectives,

361
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:42.400
Madrid repeatedly tells police that she was
with Sam that night and that they

362
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:48.680
later went to the Bedford Inn.
Now, at one point, a detective

363
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:55.880
named Tom Ross, who was working
for the prosecutor's office, shushes her during

364
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:00.000
the interview, and at another point
in the interview, a detective tells her

365
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.640
that she is not on the bar's
video, and she appears stunned, like

366
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.960
in her body language, and she
says, we have to be. We

367
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.480
were right in front of the door. I don't know. It kind of

368
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.240
sounds really convincing, you know,
we have to be. So in his

369
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:22.440
interview with gil House, Kosak acknowledges
that he had no video from the bar,

370
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.000
that he was told by the bar
owner that there was none from that

371
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.559
night, which is convenient, right, So now we you know, she

372
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.920
the girl, sounds convincing that they
were there. Because of his history,

373
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:40.480
I don't really believe him. And
you're kind of stuck because there's no video.

374
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.279
So Gilhouse tells Kosak he didn't remember
hanging out that night after the birthday

375
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.279
party. Remember earlier when I said, well, what time was the birthday

376
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.640
party? It was earlier than that's
irrelevant on the murders, right, But

377
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.720
he says he remembers hanging out at
a different time for someone's twenty first birthday,

378
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:03.079
but that was like Nikki's birthday on
January thirty first. The murders happened

379
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.839
on the thirtieth. Y'all, so
william says that the group stayed at the

380
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.440
bottom Line after one and went to
a different bar for last call, and

381
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.960
then he said that he and Gilhouse
were briefly separated, but he said he

382
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.119
called him to figure out where they
could go for an early morning meal.

383
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.480
The phone records showed that he called
Gilhouse at two fifty one am, three

384
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.640
oh one, and three oh four, for a total of nearly five minutes.

385
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.440
He also placed calls to Cameo Petaway, which was the other DNA on

386
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.079
the cigarette butt at the crime scene, between two thirty eight and three twenty

387
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.240
seven am. Prosecutors claimed that that
was just more evidence that the men were

388
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.680
involved in the crime and Sam was
calling to solidify their story of what had

389
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.200
happened when they were separated. But
those calls were unanswered, which is kind

390
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.440
of interesting because if they were unanswered, then how were they solidifying their story?

391
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.640
But maybe he was calling two solidify
the story. Cameo just didn't answer

392
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.160
to even make Williams more appealing to
you. Okay, he beats his women,

393
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.960
he doesn't have a job, he
doesn't at the house, he smokes

394
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.599
three packs a day, he plays
video games. He prostitutes his girlfriend.

395
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:18.960
To make him even more appealing,
Williams explains that he was actually cheating on

396
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:23.240
his current girlfriend with Madrid, and
he was just trusting Cameo Petaway that he

397
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.640
would be discreet when he was talking
to him. I was looking for a

398
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.000
place to go have sex with this
woman. I was looking for a place

399
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.720
other than a hotel to go,
Williams said, and I knew that he

400
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.839
would not tell. Okay, well
great, now you're even telling me even

401
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.160
more that Petaway won't roll over on
you whenever y'all are arrested for murder you

402
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.599
committed together. That's what it sounds
like. Okay, But you know,

403
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.359
some of these calls were just really
instrumental in having him convicted. But the

404
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:57.799
jury was provided pieces of the calls, according to according to Williams testimony or

405
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:02.519
to his argument, he says that
the jury was only provided pieces of the

406
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:07.279
calls, and they were taken out
of context of the entire conversation. You

407
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.119
know. I mean, you can
argue it either way. But the prosecutors

408
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.960
were explaining to the jury that it
was an absolute admission of guilt and that

409
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:21.279
the most incriminating phone call was made
on April twelfth, twenty twelve, to

410
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.720
Stephen Petaway, the brother of Cameos. So, I hope you're following this.

411
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:30.720
There's Cameo and there's Williams that they
their DNA is on the cigarette.

412
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.440
This is Cameo's brother, all right, Sam tells him, quote, that

413
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.720
was supposed to be me and you. This is a jailhouse call. Okay,

414
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:41.799
that was supposed to be me and
you. You know how little bro

415
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:48.759
had to step up to take your
spot. Man. Stephen responds, you

416
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:52.559
know, he didn't do it like
I would have did it right, and

417
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:55.640
then William says no, but he
did it good enough to make something happen

418
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.519
again. The prosecutors pounced on the
call and they tell the jerry that they

419
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.039
were talking about the night of the
murder and how Cameo had to go because

420
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.680
his brother was in jail. Right, So Cameo's brother was in jail,

421
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.480
Cameo had to step up to go
do this armed robbery and murder. And

422
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.359
that they were kind of talking about
how Cameo didn't do it right, possibly

423
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.279
by leaving behind the cigarette. They
were kind of being invasive about it.

424
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.880
Now, william says that Stephen was
instrumental in setting up the prostitution business,

425
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.799
and that he was talking about a
prostitution trip he took with Cameo onto Pittsburgh

426
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:30.519
because Stephen was in jail. So
Williams is arguing, no, no,

427
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.920
no, this is about me prostituting
people. This has nothing to do with

428
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.359
the murder. And then he says
when I say, he wasn't doing it

429
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.519
right, but good enough in my
eyes. He wasn't doing prostitution the way

430
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:47.359
Steven had in the past. That's
what Williams told that that news crew that

431
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.759
he was talking to. But he
was making money and when he was making

432
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:53.160
it, he was spending it all
on the wrong things. And later in

433
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.119
that call to Stephen, Williams makes
a comment that we've been some places man

434
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.400
like it sounds to me like he's
doing the war story thing that people who

435
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:08.759
are you know, drug addicts.
That okay, let me back up,

436
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.920
no hate on drug addicts, but
it seems like there's two types of people

437
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.680
in recovery. There's those that really
want to be better and don't want to

438
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:19.599
think about their past lifestyle and they
want to get better. And then there's

439
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:22.440
those that hit the war stories and
want to talk about all the crazy things

440
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:26.440
they did in the past and how
cool, and they kind of like build

441
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.039
up what they've done. I mean, I know criminals who do that too.

442
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.759
They go to prison, you know, for selling dope, and then

443
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.240
they get out and they've changed their
life, but they're really still real proud

444
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.720
of what they did and how that's
their war story. You know, this

445
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.240
sounds like their war storying and you
know, it doesn't prove his innocence.

446
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:47.200
But it was clear to the jury
that they were given only pieces of the

447
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:52.640
conversations to strengthen their case against Williams. And so, you know, you

448
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.920
can either believe the conversation pieces however
you want to believe them. But the

449
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.640
jury believed that that was part of
the murder they were discussing. So when

450
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.559
the case eventually went to trial in
July of the following year, the statements

451
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.039
to detectives were suppressed. And what
it means if they're suppressed, that means

452
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:13.440
that they're not allowed to be put
before the jury because of a violation of

453
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:17.920
what they said were Williams Miranda rights. Now, the most damning statement was

454
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.119
his denial that he had never been
in the home, and that was presented.

455
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.680
It was a question that his defense
attorneys struggled with at trial. If

456
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:31.240
you were never ever in that home, how did a cigarette with your DNA

457
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:37.000
on it end up in that home? You know? It just it doesn't

458
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:39.319
ring true. And I'm gonna tell
you this too. I'll post a picture

459
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:45.079
of this on Facebook for you.
I looked at the cigarette butt, okay.

460
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:50.759
I looked at the crime scene photos, and the location of the cigarette

461
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.920
butt kind of spoke to me.
So, imagine a door in a garage

462
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.359
is closed, okay, and you're
about to like work yourself up. You're

463
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:01.359
about to go in and you're gonna
go commit a murder or a burglary or

464
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:05.160
an arm robbery, whatever it is, and you're kind of trying to calm

465
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.039
yourself down. I don't smoke personally, but I know people that do,

466
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.599
and the cigarettes kind of like a
calming tool. Well, I could see

467
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.880
them smoking the cigarettes, calming down, getting ready, and right, let's

468
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.000
go. And he throws the cigarette
down and then they pulled the door open

469
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:25.119
because the location of the cigarette butt
was like in the door crack inside of

470
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.640
the garage. So like, if
you pull the door open the cigarettes behind

471
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:36.079
the door, does that make sense? It just kind of seemed in my

472
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:42.359
mind that's how that played out.
Now, Ultimately, he is convicted of

473
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:49.839
aggravated murder, burglary, and kidnapping. And even though he was convicted,

474
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.359
his team was able to successfully convince
the jury not to sentence him to death,

475
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.359
but he was sentenced to life in
prison with no chance of parole.

476
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.519
Well, good, one us asshole
on the street to you know, be

477
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:07.360
a leitch on society, right,
all right, But there's more so when

478
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.480
once he goes to prison, this
is kind of interesting. But there's a

479
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:20.320
guy named Eric Yngling and he's known
as the jailhouse snitch. Okay, Cameo

480
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.760
Petaway, the other DNA on the
cigarette, was tried in a separate courtroom

481
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:30.199
from Williams. His case was dismissed
by Judge James Bates, saying the prosecutors

482
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:35.840
only presented the cigarette as evidence against
Petaway, and he stated that the cigarette

483
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:40.119
could have been dropped by anyone.
The state did not have incriminating jailhouse calls

484
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.920
or testimony from a snitch on him. All right, So in William's case,

485
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:52.519
testimony from Eric Yingling is believed to
what would be what was the deciding

486
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.840
factor in his case? All right, So cameo. Petaway's case was dismissed

487
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:59.440
because the judge said, that's all
you had against him. There was nothing

488
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:05.280
else, and you know, anyone
could have dropped the cigarette. So this

489
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.519
Yngling guy that was in County jail
in December twenty eleven, now he was

490
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:12.000
in there for failing to pay child's
a board. Okay, so he's another

491
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:17.599
deadbeat. He told the jury that
he befriended Williams and that during a late

492
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:22.760
night conversation, Williams told him he
was tormented by the sound of a crinkling

493
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:30.920
bag as Lisa Straube tried to breathe. He named Williams, Petaway and another

494
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:38.199
East Sideman named Eric Taylor, as
the killers. Now, there were several

495
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:43.599
problems with Yngland's testimony, including the
inclusion of Taylor, who was never even

496
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.760
considered a strong suspect by the police
and was never charged. In addition,

497
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:54.159
all the details that Yingling told the
public are told the jury were publicly known.

498
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.039
When he talked to police, he
freely admitted to them that he was

499
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.159
looking for a deal and that his
wife looked up some of the details,

500
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:07.480
all right, so that's kind of
sketchy, and that TV station did a

501
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:15.079
little investigating and they learned that Yingling
was paid thousands of dollars after he testified

502
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:20.079
against Williams. Now, I don't
know the details surrounding that, so I

503
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.920
can't make a decision on that.
I mean, you know, I just

504
00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.480
would have to know more to make
a decision on that. But in an

505
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:32.800
hour long conversation and subsequent text messages, Yingling stood by his story. Okay,

506
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.440
he said, and this is a
quote. I couldn't get Williams to

507
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.079
shut up. He was pouring it
out. It was like I was a

508
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.280
priest and he was in a confessional. And he said that detectives initially did

509
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:49.280
not believe his story about Williams until
he casually mentioned that Williams told him about

510
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:54.800
finding Iraqi dollars in the home.
Because remember they found those envelopes with the

511
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.760
Iraqi money in it. So everything
kind of got quiet at that point of

512
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:04.239
to him, and the air in
the room changed. He explained that detectives

513
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:08.280
told him that no one knew about
the money in the master bedroom except for

514
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:15.280
the killers, the strabs, and
the police. So when it's all said

515
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:21.480
and done, though, that information
wasn't true because those Iraqi dollars were listed

516
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.039
on a search warrant, and that
search warrant was released to the media,

517
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.719
So within a week of the murder, they were being discussed on a bunch

518
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:32.960
of media outlets, including CNN right
a large media outlet. Now, the

519
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:38.239
prosecutors emphasized in William's trial that no
one knew about that information, and at

520
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:45.440
one point one of the detectives was
asked if anyone else knew about that money,

521
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.239
and he replied they did not.
It's impossible to know whether he knew

522
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.119
of the media coverage, but the
information was known when Yanling went to the

523
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:58.400
police. Okay, so I don't
think that the police were lying here.

524
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.480
I think that they just I mean, how could you know what someone else

525
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:05.840
knows? And you know, the
timeframe is sketchy here. This is kind

526
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.960
of like looking back on an armchair
quarterbacking yet when you don't know exactly when

527
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:14.960
somebody knows what they knew. So
Williams denies ever having any type of in

528
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.880
depth conversation with Yingling in jail,
and he said, had I been a

529
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.679
jury member and had I not known
the truth, I probably would have believed

530
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.639
Eric Yingling too. That's how convincing
he came across. He's a master manipulator.

531
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.119
He also said. William said,
but I do believe that I was

532
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:37.519
set up. I believe that whoever
done that placed the cigarette there to throw

533
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:42.039
investigators off. I believe with the
past record that I had and the promoting

534
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.320
prostitution charge that I had, that
Detective Kozak arrested me on the case.

535
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:52.920
So in another interview with this station
w t O L eleven, he admitted

536
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.000
to being a drug dealer, a
pimp, you know, But he says,

537
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:59.760
I ain't no killer. I had
no involvement in the case. And

538
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.480
I pray, I'm sure his prayers
are legitimate too, right, that the

539
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.800
families get justice for their family members. And I pray that one day the

540
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:12.920
truth is told and that Johnny and
Lisa's killers are put behind bars where they

541
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:19.400
deserve to be. Now a jailhouse
snitch or the jailhouse snitch. Eric Ingling

542
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.280
said that Williams told him that the
couple was bagged in an attempt to get

543
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:27.920
them to tell them where the money
was, and while doing this, Lisa

544
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:35.519
died, and then they killed Johnny. The couple you know, remember,

545
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:37.880
was found in the kitchen, and
their clothing suggested that they had been moved

546
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:43.599
from one location to another, and
a torn picture of Johnny and Lisa was

547
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:47.519
also later found in a sun room
and Johnny's wallet was on his stomach.

548
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.440
So there's a whole lot of like
back and forth here trying to figure out

549
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.320
who's telling the truth, who's lying. And the problem is, when you're

550
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:59.880
in a cessed pool of liars,
kind of gets hard to believe or hard

551
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:05.800
to understand. So when it was
all said and done, Sam Williams and

552
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.800
Cameo Petaway were the only two people
charged in the killing. Williams was convicted

553
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:14.920
and narrowly avoided the death sentence,
even though he still adamantly maintains his innocence,

554
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:20.519
and Petaway's case was dismissed because of
a lack of evidence. But if

555
00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.880
you talk to people or read about
people who live in that area, no

556
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:30.199
one believes, even if they were
involved, that they did it by themselves.

557
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:35.400
There is a lot of speculation that
some other people were involved in this.

558
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:38.320
No one has been able to show
that the men knew Johnny or Lisa,

559
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:44.800
Like there's no connection between them directly, I personally. And the reason

560
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.719
I wanted to name this episode Phrenemies
is because it doesn't seem like any of

561
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.599
their friends were true, Like none
of them seemed like real friends. It

562
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:58.599
seemed like a bunch of wildflower whatever
you want to call them, wallflower kids

563
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.880
that are just all over the place, and no one's really a genuine friend.

564
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.079
And another thing about this is that
many of Johnny's friends didn't even know

565
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.719
that he was staying at Leasta's home, and they didn't even know the address,

566
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.679
and very few people knew that the
parents would be out of the home.

567
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:23.000
That's according to people's statements. There's
also been a appeal since this case

568
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:28.079
was quote unquote closed if you will
right, I don't know if closure is

569
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:34.719
really the right word. And I
pulled the appellate the paperwork from the courts,

570
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:36.920
and there was a little bit more
detail in there. I thought that

571
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.400
y'all might be interested to know.
In the years that have passed, so

572
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:52.679
whenever Williams was appealing his conviction,
He brought up ten errors that he felt

573
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.400
were against him, and I'm not
going to read all of them because some

574
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:59.320
of them are just like you know, talking about statutes and all that.

575
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:04.400
But the first one, his complaint
was that there was not enough evidence to

576
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.440
support that he participated in this crime. I kind of do find it hard

577
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.039
to believe your DNA was out a
scene and you weren't there. The second

578
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:17.239
one was he says that his convictions
are against the manifest weight of the evidence,

579
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:21.719
meaning that kind of the same thing
that there's there's more saying he didn't

580
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:27.159
do it than is saying he he
did do it. And he also argued

581
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.719
that he had asked for emotion for
a change of venue, which means he

582
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.159
wanted to be tried elsewhere, not
exactly where this had taken place, because

583
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:38.639
he felt like the jury pool might
be tainted, and since that was denied,

584
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.760
that his due process and his equal
protection rights you know, per the

585
00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:50.199
constitution were you know, were wasn't
upheld. He also, by the way,

586
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:55.679
got upset because the trial court showed
photographs of the deceased, and because

587
00:42:55.719 --> 00:43:01.480
they did, he felt like he
was being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

588
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:09.880
Him, he I don't know if
found that laughable, you know,

589
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.840
And he goes on and on and
he makes other or other arguments. But

590
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.800
one of the ones I found interesting
too, too, is that the courts

591
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:25.079
also made him pay unspecified costs,
including fees, and he said that that

592
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:30.039
was wrong and shouldn't have happened because
they didn't first determine that he was able

593
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:36.400
to pay those costs. What what
in the world? It kind of this

594
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.920
reminded me of something I gotta tell
you'all real quickly. I used to own

595
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:40.880
a business, okay, and I'm
not going to go into what the business

596
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:44.280
was, but I owned a business
for many, many years, and I

597
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.440
caught this woman stealing from me,
all right, and the item she stole

598
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:52.039
was worth one hundred and ten dollars. And that may not sound like a

599
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:53.039
lot of money, but when I
was younger and I owned it, you

600
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:55.760
know, it pissed me off more
than the money. It just pissed me

601
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.039
off that she would do it because
she had been come into my business for

602
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.280
many years. And so I um, she got arrested on it. I

603
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:07.559
had the videotape and everything, and
I went to court whenever her case came

604
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:12.199
up and Um, so I'm up
there and this woman is up there,

605
00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:14.960
and there's a little judge, you
know, and and the judge is asking

606
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:16.960
questions, and she says, okay, well, you know, you're guilty

607
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:20.559
of stealing, and you're gonna have
to um, you're gonna have to pay

608
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.920
one hundred and ten dollars plus court
costs and blah blah blah. And that

609
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:29.159
woman looked up at that judge and
said, uh, I can't afford to

610
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:30.960
pay for that. That's why I
stole it. And I looked over and

611
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.840
it just word vomited out. I
said, well, but then maybe you

612
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.280
ought to steal within your pay grade. And the judge like chuckled, so

613
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:42.039
funny. Um, the judge chuckled. So then later on the woman came

614
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.280
up to the business to she had
to pay in a money order, and

615
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:47.280
she told my worker and by the
way, the place, the business of

616
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.159
this place is rude. Just because
I stole from her doesn't mean she has

617
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.519
to be rude, okay, bitch. So you know, we can move

618
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:00.760
on a little bit into the you
know, his his um appeal here.

619
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.519
And part of the factual background when
I was reading through it too, was

620
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:06.239
we already know. You know,
they had the bags of the head,

621
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.280
they had the tape around them and
everything that they both were bound behind their

622
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:15.320
backs, you know, their hands
were. But something interesting was that Lisa's

623
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:21.360
feet were not taped, which tells
me she needed to be able to move,

624
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:23.760
you know what I mean. It
was like they subdued him because he

625
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:27.599
was the bigger, stronger guy,
but they wanted her to be able to

626
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.920
move. And considering it was her
parents house that, you know, that

627
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.079
would be a reason why we'd want
her to be able to move and not

628
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.519
him, right, we want to
limit his mobility and have her, you

629
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.239
know, have her moving around the
house because she knows where things would be.

630
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.960
But let's talk about what actually happened
to them, because you know,

631
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:51.320
strangulation and choking. You know,
people tend to say those things like they're

632
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:52.760
interchangeable, and they're really not.
And I wanted to explain that to my

633
00:45:52.800 --> 00:46:00.199
listeners because it's important. Right.
So, the doctor that the pathologist did

634
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.000
their autopsies, it was a doctor
Pandy. He was the deputy coroner and

635
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:09.280
forensic pathologist with the Lucas County Coroner's
Office and he did both of He did

636
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:14.800
both of their autopsies, and he
described their injuries and the manner in which

637
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:22.000
they were bound. And he also
stated that both of them did have toxicology

638
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:27.599
reports run on them, and that
they both had therapeutic levels of vicadin and

639
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:34.480
percocet. Actually Lisa did. Lisa
had vicadin and percocet in her system,

640
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.840
and look, I know she's a
victim. I'm not going to discount that.

641
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:40.960
You know, it should raise a
red flag when you have vicadin and

642
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.679
percocet in your system. I mean
therapeutic levels, meaning low levels that she

643
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:52.000
didn't od and die. And then
Johnny had minute levels of percocet in his

644
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:58.599
system, and he also had marijuana. So I think it would be wrong

645
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.079
of me to not tell the detail
there that matters, that they were both

646
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.880
you know, slightly under the influence
of narcotics. It tells to me a

647
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:15.039
more complete story that these weren't.
They played a role in not their death,

648
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:20.559
but in the lifestyle that they were
living and the people that they were

649
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:22.039
surrounding themselves with. I think it
kind of tells a story there, So

650
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.280
please don't think that I'm talking bad
about them, but it is part of

651
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:30.159
the story. Now, when doctor
Pandy was, you know, pointedly asked

652
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:34.559
what was the cause of death for
both Johnny and Lisa. He said it

653
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:44.559
was boom. He said it was
asphyxiation due to strangulation and suffocation, and

654
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:49.800
he couldn't say exactly which which one
of them died first. But you know,

655
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:57.159
people I don't think understand strangulation,
okay, And something that's really common

656
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.559
is that people, you know,
miss report or they misunderstand the difference between

657
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:07.760
strangulation and when you don't under and
choking. And if you don't understand the

658
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:14.480
difference, you know, it kind
of limits people to understanding what violence is

659
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:21.960
and that when you are strangled,
there is absolute homicidal intent behind a strangulation.

660
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:27.000
Anyone who has survived a strangulation,
if you read stories about those,

661
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.760
this is not someone trying to scare
you. The most basic need in life

662
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:37.119
is oxygen is air, and when
someone is depriving you of breathing, the

663
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:43.800
intent is very clear. It's extremely
It's the basic necessity breathing and when someone

664
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.639
takes that away from you, what
could possibly be the ultimate goal there?

665
00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:53.199
Right, So there's a couple of
facts I wanted to tell you about strangulation.

666
00:48:54.639 --> 00:49:00.960
First, one is that majority of
strangulation attacks do not leave in visible

667
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:04.840
external injuries on the victim. Why
I don't want to tell you that.

668
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:08.920
I want you to know that because
abuse is very common and it's throughout our

669
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:12.800
society, and I don't want you
to ever mistake the fact. If you

670
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.679
think somebody that you know or love
is being abused, you don't say,

671
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:17.440
oh, well, I don't see
any marks on them, they must not

672
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:21.800
be being abused, because that's not
the case. Majority of the time.

673
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:25.199
You won't see marks on their throat. That's scary, you know. Even

674
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:30.639
people who are killed by manual strangulation
by the hands, sometimes they won't even

675
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:36.119
see marks at autopsy. Then when
they exuome the body months or even years

676
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:40.360
later, they can see ridges and
marks that were not seen at the autopsy.

677
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:44.920
That's incredible too. You ought to
research that scary, you know,

678
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.960
and so someone might. You might
think someone drowned, and then you exume

679
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:50.840
the body and you realize, holy
crap, there's handprints clearly around our throat

680
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:58.360
or his throat. But strangulation has
also been identified as one of the most

681
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:07.239
lethal forms of domestic violence and sexual
violence because unconsciousness may occur within seconds and

682
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:12.800
death within minutes. And if anything, I almost hope in a weird way,

683
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.920
that's what happened with Johnny and Lisa. I don't I think they were

684
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:21.519
tormented before their deaths, I really
do. But hopefully it was quick,

685
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.400
you know, and their you know, oxygen supply was quickly cut off.

686
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:34.679
But something very important about strangulation is
that it is considered by those that study

687
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:40.199
it to be the ultimate form of
power and control, as the batterer demonstrates

688
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:49.679
his command over the victim's next breath. Think of the fear Johnny and Lisa

689
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:55.840
must have felt, knowing that the
basic necessity of oxygen was dependent on the

690
00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:02.519
people terrorizing them and standing in front
of them that taped them up. To

691
00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:09.840
know that your existence is leveraged against
a monster in front of you, it's

692
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:16.199
terrifying. So luckily though, today, forty eight states have passed laws to

693
00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:22.480
prosecute strangulation and suffocation assault as felonies, as they should be. There is

694
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:28.119
nothing misdemeanor about cutting off someone's airway, and usually that's in reference to you

695
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:31.719
know, violence against women's acts and
things of that nature. But men are

696
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:38.239
strangled too, you know. But
there was a quote that a survivor state

697
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:42.800
said, and I wanted to read
it to you because it kind of made

698
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:47.480
me go wow. Quote. Every
survivor will tell you the same story.

699
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:55.679
The inability to breathe is terrifying.
It is fundamentally terrifying. It is so

700
00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:01.840
basic to our ability to survive.
Being hit is bad, but losing the

701
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:07.679
ability to breathe as the result of
strangulation is worse in a whole host of

702
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:14.199
ways. I urge you to understand
what those who are subjected to this behavior

703
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:19.360
go through. I mean, to
not be able to breathe. You know,

704
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:21.880
a lot of people fear drowning.
It's kind of the same concept,

705
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:27.920
you can't breathe. Now, going
back to mister Williams here and how he

706
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:30.920
didn't do this and that whole history
of his life that I read to you,

707
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.559
and he's acting like he's just a
victim of being a bad guy.

708
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:40.039
Right here are a couple of facts
about strangulation. Did you know that the

709
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:46.519
perpetrators of the mass homicides at the
Pulse nightclub, at the Fort Lauderdale Airport,

710
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:53.760
at the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church
in Texas, at the Boston Marathon

711
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:01.079
bombing, and many more, all
have a public record history of domestic violence

712
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:09.039
and usually strangulation. My point being
there, when people have the propensity for

713
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:15.119
violence, strangulation is not out of
it. And this guy Williams shows a

714
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:21.000
history of that. He batters women. He just upped the anti. That's

715
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:27.880
the difference between a domestic view domestic
abuse victim and a domestic abuse survivor is

716
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:31.000
they just never got the chance to
up the anti. And one more,

717
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:37.360
when domestic violence perpetrators strangle their victims, not only is this a felonious assault,

718
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:46.880
but often results in an attempted murder, but even more often eventually turns

719
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:52.760
fatal. When these people are violent, you know, they have the propensity.

720
00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:01.360
A rage filled domestic violence strangler,
you know who has every possible lethality

721
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:07.840
marker for being a mass killer.
You know, is just there in people's

722
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.280
faces. Okay, So what's the
difference between strangulation and choking? Strangulation The

723
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.800
external pressure to the neck by any
means that obstructs blood flow and or airflow

724
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:21.320
in the neck. Strangulation is a
form of asphyxia, and it is generally

725
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.880
done intentionally and is a felony crime
in most states. Choking is a partial

726
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.920
or complete obstruction of the airway due
to a foreign body, Like you choke

727
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:36.760
on a piece of food that people
don't choke you, people strangle you.

728
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.880
It's so much worse, you know, it's so much worse. And asphyxiation

729
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:46.960
is the state or process of being
deprived of oxygen. Suffocation, y'all,

730
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:51.920
with a pillow, a bedsheet,
hand over the face, a bag over

731
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:58.239
your head. It's just horrific.
And I want you to know too.

732
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:05.239
Strangulation is also a gen crime.
Most stranglers are men. Most stranglers are

733
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.719
men. Williams is a man like. He kind of just fits the criteria,

734
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.360
is what I'm trying to tell you. Luckily though, when it comes

735
00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:14.280
to strangulation, I guess if we
had to look at a bright side of

736
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:19.880
their death, hopefully they did not
suffer beyond being terrified and terrible, you

737
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.599
know, justification. But loss of
consciousness can happen within five ten seconds of

738
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:30.599
strangulation. But y'all, those bags
suffocation, Oh my god. But I

739
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:34.679
think the media has got to get
it right. When strangulation is framed well

740
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:38.480
in the media, it uses precise
language and it does not misidentify strangulation as

741
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:44.239
choking, because we want to include
what the victim went through, and it

742
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:49.840
will frame the severity of what they
went through when we say asphyxiation. Know

743
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:53.039
the difference, and know that the
signs sometimes are that there are signs you

744
00:55:53.079 --> 00:56:01.519
don't see it. So further on
in his in his appeal, he made

745
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:07.840
an argument that there was a bunch
of partial profile There were a bunch of

746
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:13.000
partial profiles that were not suitable for
comparison purposes that were taken from the scene,

747
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:19.079
and inside Johnny's sweatshirt pocket there was
a DNA contribution from an unknown female

748
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:24.039
number one and an unknown individual.
A swab from the inside of Johnny's sweatpant

749
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:30.559
pockets indicated DNA contributions from an unknown
female number one. So there was another

750
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:36.920
female all up in Johnny's pants,
And I don't mean that weird. We

751
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.880
don't know if she was in there
afterwards or whatever. They also did get

752
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:45.840
DNA profiles and hairs from Johnny's sweatpants
from the duct tape around the wrists.

753
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:54.039
And I'm just telling you, you
know, that casino chick that I mentioned

754
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:57.840
that was interview, I don't feel
good about her. She doesn't sit right

755
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.760
with me. I feel like there
was more to that than what the police

756
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.639
were able to get from her.
You know, just because she wasn't arrested

757
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:08.000
doesn't mean I don't think that there
was something going on there. And remember

758
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:13.719
that text message that Alex Casino sent
to that girl she was having problems with,

759
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:15.639
and I only had pieces of it. Well, I was able to

760
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:17.599
get that full text message. This
is what it said, and this is

761
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:22.239
a direct quote. You do not
know shit about me, Fam, So

762
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:25.079
fall back because I promise you ain't. I promise you I ain't. No

763
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:29.159
bitch, I do this shit,
Fam. Watch the news. Bitch,

764
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.159
motherfucker's get duct taped and tied up
and left for dead. So what youre

765
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:35.920
trying to do? Fam? You
saw me looking at you at the store.

766
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:37.599
You should have asked me and I
would have told you who I am.

767
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:45.159
Period. I feel like she was
involved, way more involved than she

768
00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:52.360
was ever you know, dealt with
all right. Cameo pet Away, the

769
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:58.880
other guy that was his case was
dismissed. Also, his baby mama said

770
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:05.079
that Cameo and Williams smoked Newport's cigarettes
and it was not uncommon for the two

771
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:07.880
to share the cigarettes when they were
together, so I think he was trying

772
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:09.639
to make the argument. Oh well, I may have shared one and the

773
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:12.760
stuff that he stuffed it back in
the pack. Maybe he had something to

774
00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:16.559
do with it, but I'm not
I don't think so. Another thing,

775
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:23.719
remember how Miss Casino had the dog
problem with them them and the car car

776
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:29.119
problem with them. Well, with
respect to the dog incident, Alex testified

777
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:32.079
in September and October that she lived
in a motel and she had a pitbull

778
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:37.159
puppy. Zach recalled. Johnny and
Lisa visited Alex at the hotel room and

779
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:42.840
saw that Alex was not taking care
of the puppy, and Johnny and Lisa

780
00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:45.719
offered to buy it. Alex wanted
one hundred dollars. Lisa and Johnny paid

781
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:49.159
her fifty, took the puppy,
but never paid the other fifty, and

782
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:52.599
this made Alex mad. She testified
they eventually made up and she started hanging

783
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.719
out with Johnny and Lisa again.
She didn't take care of a puppy.

784
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:01.119
Johnny and Lisa tried to help the
puppy. You know, I just as

785
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:05.400
far as the car incident went,
you know, we know that she you

786
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.599
know, Johnny gave seven hundred and
fifty dollars or Alex gave Johnny seven hundred

787
00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:12.400
fifty dollars in cash, said she
would give the other half when the title

788
00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:16.119
was notarized because Zach was really hurting
for money. Excuse me, Johnny was

789
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:21.440
really hurting for money, and you
know that whole fiasco. I just feel

790
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:30.559
like this girl was way more involved
than what she was charged with. So

791
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:35.199
back to Eric Yngling, this is
also in his appeals. You know,

792
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:45.119
Eric testified and trial that he did
talk to mister Williams and that he had

793
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:47.800
developed kind of a relationship with him, and he said that since he had

794
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:52.400
already been sentenced, other inmates tended
to trust that he would not attempt to

795
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:54.400
make a deal with the police in
exchange for testimony because he had already been

796
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:59.679
sentenced. And he admitted that he
had several other convictions and that he had

797
00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:07.639
provide did information in other cases.
But what he described is kind of interesting.

798
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:14.440
Gingling described that William Williams told him
what happened to Johnny and Lisa.

799
01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:16.840
He told me that they went through
the garage ding ding ding, because that's

800
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:20.960
what the cigarettat cigarette boat was found, and that he was kind of unclear

801
01:00:21.039 --> 01:00:25.320
how either Eric Taylor, that other
guy that he implicated or cameo. He

802
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.840
never did understand which one knew Johnny
Clark, but he did say that they

803
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.079
went into the garage and there was
an entrance door to the home, and

804
01:00:32.119 --> 01:00:37.079
when they knocked and opened it,
that Johnny Clark was on the phone and

805
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.719
when he saw who was there,
he said something this is not a quote,

806
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:43.719
but something to the effect of,
Hey, what are you doing here?

807
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:47.039
Who are these people? He said
that he went into the house and

808
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:52.719
they started yelling, getting violent with
it, and Johnny Clark told Lisa to

809
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:55.159
go upstairs. Did not say if
it was a bedroom or what, just

810
01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:00.480
go upstairs. And they started yelling
and screaming about where's the diesel? Meaning

811
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:05.719
where's the money? And they're not
telling them anything. There's nothing there.

812
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.599
He keeps saying there's nothing. One
story that Sam says is that they ransacked

813
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:14.760
the home. The next story he
says, they don't. Throughout the time

814
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:17.199
I was with him, little things
changed, and when they did, they

815
01:01:17.239 --> 01:01:22.519
always slanted to his benefit. When
he went on to tell me that they

816
01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:27.440
were in their searching for stuff and
couldn't find anything, Lisa had gone upstairs

817
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.519
and went into a locked room.
And remember Lisa's legs were not bound.

818
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:32.719
Remember I mentioned that, I kind
of believe it. I don't know what

819
01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:37.920
type of room, but Sam had
to push through that locked door to get

820
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:40.440
in there and bring her out downstairs. And I don't know if you remember,

821
01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:45.519
but there was damage to the door
from the outside in. Based on

822
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:52.599
the evidence at the scene, it
just makes sense to what was found at

823
01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:57.239
the scene. Also, he says
when they brought Lisa downstairs, and they

824
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:00.800
finally got tired of begging them to
tell them where the stuff was, yelling

825
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:04.079
and threatening them. They were going
to pistol whip them, but then they

826
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:08.280
were worried about DNA, so they
set them in chairs facing each other wherever

827
01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:13.559
they took the bags and Johnny did
not get a bag over his head first.

828
01:02:13.639 --> 01:02:16.360
According to the story, it was
Lisa. They were trying to torture

829
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:21.440
Lisa, for lack of better words, to motivate Johnny to tell them,

830
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:23.480
hey, here's the money, here's
where the money is, here's where the

831
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:29.280
drugs are. And it never happened. On the third time that Lisa passed

832
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:34.000
out, she never woke up,
and that's why they went Sam and Cameo

833
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:37.679
at that point went to the garage. These kids were apparently still on the

834
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:39.800
upper level of the house, not
in the basement, and they were out

835
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:45.760
there smoking a cigarette cigarette talking about
what they were going to do. Doesn't

836
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:49.760
it make sense to you. Sam
had told me that he had thought him

837
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.039
and Cameo had talked about maybe killing
Eric Taylor. The cigarette that was found

838
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:57.840
with the DNA. They are sharing
in the garage at the time. They

839
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.400
are discussing what to do while they
were in the and remember this too,

840
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:07.519
Lisa's shirt was kind of rolled up
a little bit and her pants pulled a

841
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:09.639
little bit down, so kind of
like they drug her from one room to

842
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:13.960
the other. Remember that. So
while they were in the garage, Eric

843
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:22.400
Taylor was inside killing Johnny Clark,
he said, Yingling recalled William saying how

844
01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:27.320
he will never forget the way that
that bag made a crinkling sound going inside

845
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:30.440
the mouth and outside the mouth as
young Lisa Straw breathed. That's one thing

846
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:35.960
that was repeated a million times.
He further said, Cam Petaway, by

847
01:03:36.039 --> 01:03:39.159
Sam's word, is the one who
had killed Lisa Straw, and that they

848
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:44.199
did not go there to kill anybody. And y'all you'll see this time and

849
01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:46.599
time again where everyone thinks they're on
the same page as far as the bad

850
01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:51.480
guys go, and then one of
them whiles out and does something way out

851
01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:53.119
of left field. They weren't expecting. But you were still there and you

852
01:03:53.159 --> 01:04:00.199
were still principal to what happened.
Yingling also said that Williams revealed they had

853
01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:02.920
found some sort of foreign money in
the in the straw house. It was

854
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:11.199
Gaddaffi or so damned insane, however
he said it, But what he was

855
01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:15.000
meaning was Saddam Hussey. But he
said so damned insane. That's kind of

856
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.880
funny. Yngling testified appellant left the
money for the house because even if it

857
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:23.239
was real, he didn't know how
to exchange it for US currency. And

858
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:25.800
that makes sense. Why would you
Why did they leave the money behind?

859
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.599
That was kind of you know,
the detectives were wondering. So, I

860
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:32.159
mean, overall, y'all, this
case goes all over the place. In

861
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.599
my humble opinion, I think they
got part of the guys. I think

862
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:40.719
that they totally miss some other people. Maybe it's a lack of evidence.

863
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:44.320
You know, sometimes the bad guys
look up and I hate that. I

864
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:47.280
absolutely hate that. Karma's a bitch
though, and they're gonna they're gonna screw

865
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.880
up again, all right. But
if anything, this story is a cautionary

866
01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:56.119
one. You don't brag about your
money. If anything, y'all succeed in

867
01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:59.920
silence, if you have to just
be quiet, right, succeed in silence.

868
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:04.280
And don't keep shitty friends. It's
that simple. They'll turn on you.

869
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:09.000
Don't keep a bad crowd because when
it comes down to it, you're

870
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:11.159
either eating at the table or you're
on the menu.