Frenemies Part 2 | The Murders of Johnny Clarke & Lisa Straub

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

0:51 Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, kJ back here for an another episode of Unspeakable. What have you been up to? What have you been doing? I've been doing so much, y'all. Went on a vacation. I did. I was posting it online. I'm back from my vacation. We had so much fun. I took all my churans, my husband and I. We went to to Disney World, and we went to Universal and went we went and saw family and it was such a good time. So, hey, we all need a minute to get back and relax and take time to renew right and then get back in the ball game. Well, guess what. Speaking of ball games, y'all know, I'm an LSU fan, don't come at me. And we got some games going on today right in the College World Series, and I'm excited to be watching that. But look, I gotta tell y'all something real quick. When I was in Disney, I don't know why things always happened to me, but I have to share this with y'all because I was so so I don't even know what the word is. I was so wounded emotionally. We were standing in line at the the Seven Dwarfs ride. I was so excited.

1:53 It was hot when we had like an hour wait, and I'm sweating and I'm just sitting there, just kind of thinking about whatever it is I think about. And next thing I know, I feel on my elbow, also known as the weeness. If you didn't know that, the squishy part of your elbows, your weenness. Anyway, I felt someone lick my weenness. So I turn around because I'm like, what in the hell, and there is a little, short, fat ten to eleven year old boy staring at me. So I just stared back because I don't care what you think you would do. You don't know what you would do when you have your weenness licked by someone. You don't know, and then then you turn around as a child. So I just I grabbed my elbow, like what did you just do? But y'all, he didn't even break eye contact. He just stared at me and I stared at him, and he never budged. He just stared at me. And I turned around with deer in the headlights, and my husband said, what's wrong? And I was like, the kid just licked my elbow, Oh my god. And he was like why and I was like, I don't know. It didn't ask him to lick the weenest. I just he did. And I was so wounded, upset, scared and angry. I didn't even know what to do. But this much I will tell y'all in ten years, when the weenest elbow licking rapist hits

3:25 town somewhere, I want you to know. I was his first victim, and it was uncomfortable. So y'all, protect your elbows at all costs if you go on vacation, because you'd never know what might happen to him. All right, So now you know that happened, and I'm just uncomfortable about it. But while I was on vacation, I also got some new Patron members and I wanted to say hello to them. And look, it's more ladies. I love this. The girls are showing up for true crime right. But we've got miss Brandy Mayred, Hey Brandy, how are you doing? Thank you so much for joining the Patron group. I'm gonna be putting so much more content online. I'm gonna start blogging a lot more too, because all of my little shenanigans that happened. You can bet if I shennan once, I will Shenanigan. There will be lots of Shenanigans. So y'all stay tuned. Andy, y'all check on there. I'm gonna be putting a lot more on there. Kelly Ratcliffe, Hey girl, I like that first name. Hey, hey, hey, thank you for joining my podcast and for being part of the family. Miss Julie Kaiser, how are you doing, Miss Julie. Thank you so so much for joining and for being part of the team. I've also got Miss Tammy Hill, Hey girl, how you during? How are you during? Miss Tammy? And then, last, but certainly not least, I've got Miss Cindy Night. I see you, Miss Cindy, I see you on there. Thank you so much for joining, and I look forward to being able to share a whole lot more with y'all online and on Facebook. Make sure you're checking my my posts because I put a lot of pictures about the victims and stories and little um tidbits that you might like to see. I love putting a face to a victim.

4:55 I love being able to say this is a real person. So y'all tune in look on there if you don't, if you're not on Facebook, join and just look me up. Unspeakable, a true crime podcast by Kelly Jennings, and I interact with you. That's me on there. I do not have my team or anyone answering you. That is one hundred percent me every time I speak to you, so you can know that it's not just someone pretending to be me like some people may do. No, ma'am, that's not me. All right, So let's get back into this. We were doing the Johnny Clark and Lisa Straw murders that we called fhrenemies, So this is gonna be Frenemies Part dih right. The second part, Now, just a little rewind because it's been a week, right since you've heard anything about this. But remember they were two young lovers that we're looking over the Lisa's parents house. They were gone on a cruise to celebrate their anniversary, and then they stopped answering their phones. A friend got pretty nervous about that because Johnny and Lisa were supposed to go pick them up, and so they went down to the house. When they got to the house, nobody was answering. It just seemed weird. Johnny's parents showed up. Mom mighte called when one not once but twice, and then on the third call she was panicked and said, oh my god, my child is dead. They have bags over their heads. Help right, all right? Well, then, just another quick part of the recap was there were a couple of sketchy people.

6:15 This girl named Alex Casino was interviewed, some other people were interviewed, and they ended up finding a cigarette. But at the scene they did some DNA testing and boom, they got two DNA profiles back and those two guys kind of became suspects, all right. Now, Before that happened, Anthony Watson had told the police that Johnny and he were planning to meet up but it got too late, and that, you know, things just were kind of going strange, and there was a lot of phone calls going on, and then he testified to or not testified, but he spoke to the police and ended up getting murdered right outside of his apartment complex. And you know, his murder has never been solved, which kind of was sketchy, af right, because what is that about. So now where we're picking up, it's September twenty second, twenty eleven, and the prime DNA suspect, his name was Sam Williams, is doing what punk ass wannabes do. Okay, a whole bunch of nothing, you know what I'm talking about. Those people that are wannabes, they say they're thugs, but really, when it comes to being a thug, it's more like, I don't have a job.

7:35 I like to smoke cigarette smoke. We lay around the house and bump off of other people. But I'm a you know, true king. You know exactly the type of people I'm talking about. All Right, Well, that day he slept in late, and he had invited some friends over and they were gonna go play video games, right, because that's what thugs do. They play video games and they smoke cigarettes. But he ran out of the rats, y'all. He ran out of cigarettes, and so he said, you know what, I need to get some more because his habit three packs a day, three packs of cigarettes a day. I wouldn't have time to smoke three cigarette three packs of cigarettes a day if I tried. You know why, Because I'm busy and I work and I contribute to society. I digress, all right. So his brother agreed to buy him a pack of cigarettes if he would go to the store with them. So as they get to the store and Williams is crossing the street to get into his car, guess who shows up? The US Marshals And they do what they do.

8:30 They were kicking ass and they were taking names, and so the marked cars came rolling up. The US Marshals, along with the detectives that were on this case, had guns drawn and they took his ass into custody. They said, come with me, sir, put on these pretty bracelets. We got somewhere for you. Now, it turns out that leeches of society tend to be multi multifaceted in their repertoire of stupidity. Okay, because it turns out that he actually had a warrant for one of and let me say that again. One of his domestic violence cases that he was on probation four. So not only is he a punk ass want to be thug, he also beats women. What a winner? Jesus. All right, well, it turns out you may him beat women, but you can't beat the system play because they got your ass. Okay. So they took him into custody.

9:26 And when they did, okay, and I need y'all to hear this, because this is very, very sad. His complaint wasn't for the victims of his domestic violence cases. No, no, no, that was not what his complaint was. When they took him into custody. He was actually upset for himself, okay, so check selfish off the list as well. In his own words, he said, and I quote, I've got thirty days in jail. I don't want to do the probation. That's what he said. I have thirty days in jail. I don't want to do the probation. When the US marshals were putting the handcuffs on him, he said, you really, this is a quote. You really come and get people from misdemeanor domestic violence cases. Yeah, buddy, that's why they were there for a misdemeanor. They found you so important that they came after you for a misdemeanor. Get the fuck out of here, dude. You know that they're not common to get you for a misdemeanor. You ain't nobody, You are nobody. Okay. It sounds more like you trying to establish your ignorance to the fact that something huge went down while you were smoking your cigarette on the scene. Aha, correct, remember the cigarette butted scene on the scene of the murders. All right. So later at the Sheriff's department, he also had another complaint that he wanted to file with Detective Jeff Kozak. You know what he was mad about. Do you know what this thug was mad about.

10:58 He was mad about the rough treatment he received when he was handcuffed. They hurt him, He got a bobo. So just to clarify what put in here has been about so far, okay, he's been charged three times for domestic violence, and domestic violence is going to play in here, and you'll see in a minute, even though you know this wasn't the traditional domestic violence killing, it will play a role, all right. He's been charged three times for domestic violence. In two thousand and six, he was found guilty of threatening to kill the victim of his domestic violence case. In two thousand and seven, he was involved in a fight and charged with felonious assault after punching a man. And by the way, felonious assault is different than assault. Felonious assault means you hurt somebody. Okay, you broke a nose, you broke an eye socket, like you caused them immense paint. It wasn't just a little bitch slap across the face. Okay, he hurt them.

11:54 And then in two and ten, he was found guilty of pushing his ex wife to the ground and bite her wrist. Have you ever in your life? What animal is this? Tell me about yourself, sir? I can see his profile online, his dating profile. I like long walks on the beach and I'll beat your ass, I'll bite your wrist, I'll smoke cigarettes, and I'll whoop your ass in a video game like what the hell man? And then in twenty eleven, before Johnny and Lisa's murder, he was found guilty of going to his ex wife's house, kicking in the door and threatening to send the woman in his car that he had with him in to beat her up. So he likes to involve other people in his crimes too, but he was mad about the rough treatment he received, Like you literally could not make this up. He's always the victim so far. God, this is what he said. Quote, if you would have sent me something in the mail, I would have come down. You didn't have to humiliate me like that, y'all. What in the hell he's humiliated? He's humiliated? Wow? God, I mean, why haven't the police thought of this so far? Jimothy, Jimothy, I need you to hand me the phone. I'm gonna call our sheriff right now. Okay, I'm gonna call our sheriff, ring Ring, Hey, sheriff, Hey, Look, why don't you just start sending letters to the criminals and they'll show up. I

13:26 mean, what if you would have sent me a letter? Dude doesn't even have a house, your CouchSurfing bro, Like, what are you doing? I mean, I know that sounds like a subpoena in all right, but I mean, just a letter. Why are you so mean? Sheriffs? Why don't y'all just send letters? Why do you have to go after these guys in handcuff them. I cannot handle criminals like this. Get out of here, all right? Come on, bro, you knew this was bigger than that misdemeanor warrant. And we know this because suddenly he shifted his thinking to defending himself against a promoting prostitution case that he was also involved with with his girlfriend. So he will beat your ass and he will pimp you out. That's what I was looking for when I got married. I was like, look, Blake, I'm not going to marry you unless you beat my ass and pimp me out. Not like, why do women deal with this?

14:16 Please? If you're in a relationship where this guy, where you get out of here? All right? So you know how kids will like word vomit and they'll tell you telling themselves because they assume that you know more than you actually do. My kids do that all the time. Well, okay, here is exhibit A all right of that happening. So eleven minutes into his interview with detectives, they just dropped pictures of Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub on the table in front of Williams. Now, remember, his whole thing was, oh, y'all were mean to me, and you humiliated me and arresting me for a you know, a misdemeanor domestic battery charge. Then when he gets in the car and gets up there, they and realize as oh wait, maybe this is worse. Then he starts defending himself against pimping out his girlfriend. Eleven minutes in, they dropped those pictures on there on the table and he looks at him. Now, I'm gonna just say, while domestic violence, drugs, and prostitution are clearly frowned upon, that wasn't while he was in custody. But they were very, very interested in what happened on the night of January thirtieth, twenty eleven at the Straw residence. Now, during an hour long interview, Williams told detectives six times that he did not want to talk. All right now, saying you don't want to talk and ask him for a lawyer or different So don't come at me on that, all right. Saying I don't want to talk is childish. Saying I want a lawyer is establishing that you now want to be, you know, have representation. But he said he didn't want to talk, and at one point one of the detectives like roared at him, tell me why your DNA

15:48 is at my crime scene? Because I'm gonna tell y'all something. If I wouldn't add a murder, I am going to be just out the box, crazy, screaming what are you talking about? Check my phone records? Go look here, Go do that. Go go check a camera somewhere. I mean, you're on camera twenty sometimes a day statistically. But what did he do? He crossed his arms like the big tough guy is, and he refused to talk, and then finally he did ask for an attorney. So off to jail he goes right for his three hots and a cot. He's charged with the murders of John and Lisa. Johnny and Lisa. Now this is where things kind of get a little interesting. So from Marion County or Marion Correctional Institute, Williams did talk to a local news agency they were called eleven Investigates for nearly an hour while he was there. And this was a direct quote from him. I have been incarcerated before, and I know murder cases. This is his language. By the way, there are grammatical errors and they are not mine. I'm quoting. I've been incarcerated before. And I know murder cases is a very serious crime. I didn't know if they were using DNA as a scare tactic to get me to talk. But I knew if I talked to my attorney, I'd find out more information, all right. Well, to me, I found that statement a little bit odd because if I would, like I said, if I was wrongly accused and charged with two murders I didn't commit, there's no in hell DNA evidence would scare me. It wouldn't scare me if I did not go somewhere and commit murder. Then you can make up fake DNA evidence in my face all day long, and I'm a laugh in yours. I wasn't there. It didn't

17:22 happen, so it wouldn't scare me like none zero. If I wasn't there, my DNA is not there period beginning in in totality. That's the end of it. But instead he says I knew if I talked to an attorney, I could find out more. To me, that's taking an angle, right, It's the cat and mouse game. His tactic was clear, he said it himself. I knew if I talked to my attorney, I'd find out more accurate information, and what he is saying though, is hey, I got an attorney to find out what all DNA they have against me? You see the different It's not do they have my DNA? Why would they have my DNA? It's what all DNA do they have? He wanted to find out more. There were no adamant denials and there was no innocence being proclaimed there. He's like blase about the whole ordeal. I would be out of my mind, enraged. I would become like a caged animal because I wasn't there someone would be able to vouch for me. Hell, all you'd have to, honestly do is go to hobby Lobby or go to Belk, which is a local department store that I love, and look at the video camera because I'm there that's where I'm at. Or I'm in the backyard porche playing with my squirrel. I'm not murdering people. He doesn't do that, all right, So let's go forward a little bit. We have some jailhouse calls that come into play. Almost immediately getting out of his interview with detectives, Williams begins making phone calls from the county jail, and the first call

18:55 he made was to his nephew named Chris at eight forty five pm, and at one point william tells him quote, I fucked up. I'm going to be in here for a long time. I thought you didn't know anything about it. Kind of weird. Now what did he mean by I fed up? All right? Because this is kind of like Clinton depends on what the definition of is is you remember when he said that? All right? According to Williams, he says that he was angry that he had significant amounts of drugs in his home and he was worried it would be stolen before he could sell it to be used to hire an attorney. That's what he meant by that. He was angry that his criminal activity wouldn't fay for his criminal activity to be defended. All right. So during the conversation with his nephew, Sam explains how he should climb a pole, get on the back of the roof and push the air conditioner to get into the house and to get his drugs. All right. So he's trying to find a way, I guess to sell sell his drugs. Now. In a later call, he calls his friend named Looney, I cannot express to you how unimpressed. I am with the names these people get on the street, Like, what would you want your street name to be? I remember one time a criminal who was

20:30 doing serial, non penetrating rapes being referred to as the dry hump rapist, and I almost fell out of my chair laughing, like, what the I mean? I'd want to be like, you know, Killa kill or you know, k to the M F and J or some shit, not looney, not looney, the dry hump right, Oh my god, I can't. All right, So these fools are run around here being called bumper car Carl and lazy eye Pete and shit like, come on, get a better name on the street. But anyway, Williams tells Looney, quote, I just told my little nephew where everything is at. Help him get rid of it. Dude, I need the money. I need a lawyer. So when Williams was arrested on September twenty second, he could not tell the police where he was on the night of January thirtieth. Remember that's when they were killed. He says, quote, I didn't really know where I was, how much time had elapsed eight months. I lived in the streets, so really i'd bounced from house to house at that moment, I couldn't tell where I was, he says. So Williams then starts claiming that he was able to look back at his phone records, and he says family and friends were able to look back at social media for him and determined that he was at the bottom Line Bar on Navar Avenue on the East Side. Now this is when he says, I know I was at the bottom Line Bar watching the Pro Bowl with a few other people. One of the people was Destiny Madrid, the girl who got arrested in my case, my cousin Larry Gilhouse was there, and Eddie Flores was there. So in a conversation that he did

22:03 further with that with that TV news station that eleven investigates, Flora says that he was not at work until later in the evening, but that he was texting with Gilhouse, who says that Sam and his son were at a birthday party for his daughter. So Gilhouse confirmed that to detectives when he was interviewed on October twenty eighth. He said that Sam was the only one who stayed to help him clean up, so he did have someone kind of there to say well, I had a birthday party and he did help clean up. I just was kind of like, okay, well when was the birthday party? Because if it wasn't in the evening, then who cares if he had a birthday party? Like if it ended it three then okay, so what so? Flora says that their texting conversation. In their texting conversation, Gilhouse told him that Sam and he were heading up to the bar and that he should meet them there. And he said, when he got off work, he headed to his cousin's house to finished watching the Pro Bowl. Then they went to the bar. And he remembers the date because his cousin Nick turned twenty one at midnight and the doorman agreed to let him in a little early.

23:11 Now, a record search confirmed that the cousin turned twenty one on January thirty first, and the Pro Bowl also took place at seven pm on January thirtieth and ended about ten forty five pm. So you know, his cousin says, you know, Sam was there hanging out with us. He was chit chatting. He said, I've known Sam since he was a little kid. We closed it down. We were all just hanging out. He added that he has no reason to lie. If he did that, he's gonna rot for it. Talking about the crime. If he did it, he's gonna rot for it. It is what it is. I've known him forever. But if he did that, it was disgusting and he deserves what he gets. So it's kind of interesting, right, your cousin is vouching for you and saying, but if you did it, you deserve a rot.

23:53 Well, I mean, I look, we all have different experiences, and we all have different ways of speaking and explaining things, and I get that. But if someone said my cousin, I'm thinking of one cousin in particular. Okay, if they say she went and she was with me and we were hanging out, but if she did it, she deserves her roll. I would know if she was with me or not, and I would know what she was capable of or not. Within reason, Okay, within reason. And this his explanation there says to me, yeah, we were hanging out, but I'm not one hundred percent certain he didn't have the capability to go and do it after we hung out. That's how I read that. I don't know how you read it, but based on the conversation between Tiffany Williams and Johnny Clark. Police believed that Clark and strawb were attacked at ten forty one pm, a call between Williams and Madrid at ten twenty seven pm pinged off of a cell phone tower that was near that bottom line bar.

24:52 So some of the stuff he's saying can be explained, and you can't discount that. You can't say, well, we're gonna ignore that, because to me, then that's not proper investigation. If it doesn't fit your narrative, then you just throw it out. I don't think that's proper investigation personally. I mean, if he's pinging off of a tower near a bar, cool. What I don't know personally is where that tower was in proximity to the straw home, because you know, he could have been right there on the line of where the towers switched that you ping off of them, what if they were close to each other. There's not enough information there for me personally, all right. So at one point william says he was calling Madrid to see when she would get to the bar, and in an interview with detectives, Madrid repeatedly tells police that she was with Sam that night and that they later went to the Bedford Inn. Now, at one point, a detective named Tom Ross, who was working for the prosecutor's office, shushes her during the interview, and at another point in the interview, a detective tells her that she is not on the bar's video, and she appears stunned, like in her body language, and she says, we have to be. We were right in front of the door. I don't know. It kind of sounds really convincing, you know, we have to be. So in his interview with gil House, Kosak acknowledges that he had no video from the bar,

26:22 that he was told by the bar owner that there was none from that night, which is convenient, right, So now we you know, she the girl, sounds convincing that they were there. Because of his history, I don't really believe him. And you're kind of stuck because there's no video. So Gilhouse tells Kosak he didn't remember hanging out that night after the birthday party. Remember earlier when I said, well, what time was the birthday party? It was earlier than that's irrelevant on the murders, right, But he says he remembers hanging out at a different time for someone's twenty first birthday, but that was like Nikki's birthday on January thirty first. The murders happened on the thirtieth. Y'all, so william says that the group stayed at the bottom Line after one and went to a different bar for last call, and then he said that he and Gilhouse were briefly separated, but he said he called him to figure out where they could go for an early morning meal.

27:18 The phone records showed that he called Gilhouse at two fifty one am, three oh one, and three oh four, for a total of nearly five minutes. He also placed calls to Cameo Petaway, which was the other DNA on the cigarette butt at the crime scene, between two thirty eight and three twenty seven am. Prosecutors claimed that that was just more evidence that the men were involved in the crime and Sam was calling to solidify their story of what had happened when they were separated. But those calls were unanswered, which is kind of interesting because if they were unanswered, then how were they solidifying their story? But maybe he was calling two solidify the story. Cameo just didn't answer to even make Williams more appealing to you. Okay, he beats his women, he doesn't have a job, he doesn't at the house, he smokes three packs a day, he plays video games. He prostitutes his girlfriend.

28:11 To make him even more appealing, Williams explains that he was actually cheating on his current girlfriend with Madrid, and he was just trusting Cameo Petaway that he would be discreet when he was talking to him. I was looking for a place to go have sex with this woman. I was looking for a place other than a hotel to go, Williams said, and I knew that he would not tell. Okay, well great, now you're even telling me even more that Petaway won't roll over on you whenever y'all are arrested for murder you committed together. That's what it sounds like. Okay, But you know, some of these calls were just really instrumental in having him convicted. But the jury was provided pieces of the calls, according to according to Williams testimony or to his argument, he says that the jury was only provided pieces of the calls, and they were taken out of context of the entire conversation. You know. I mean, you can argue it either way. But the prosecutors were explaining to the jury that it was an absolute admission of guilt and that the most incriminating phone call was made on April twelfth, twenty twelve, to Stephen Petaway, the brother of Cameos. So, I hope you're following this.

29:25 There's Cameo and there's Williams that they their DNA is on the cigarette. This is Cameo's brother, all right, Sam tells him, quote, that was supposed to be me and you. This is a jailhouse call. Okay, that was supposed to be me and you. You know how little bro had to step up to take your spot. Man. Stephen responds, you know, he didn't do it like I would have did it right, and then William says no, but he did it good enough to make something happen again. The prosecutors pounced on the call and they tell the jerry that they were talking about the night of the murder and how Cameo had to go because his brother was in jail. Right, So Cameo's brother was in jail, Cameo had to step up to go do this armed robbery and murder. And that they were kind of talking about how Cameo didn't do it right, possibly by leaving behind the cigarette. They were kind of being invasive about it.

30:18 Now, william says that Stephen was instrumental in setting up the prostitution business, and that he was talking about a prostitution trip he took with Cameo onto Pittsburgh because Stephen was in jail. So Williams is arguing, no, no, no, this is about me prostituting people. This has nothing to do with the murder. And then he says when I say, he wasn't doing it right, but good enough in my eyes. He wasn't doing prostitution the way Steven had in the past. That's what Williams told that that news crew that he was talking to. But he was making money and when he was making it, he was spending it all on the wrong things. And later in that call to Stephen, Williams makes a comment that we've been some places man like it sounds to me like he's doing the war story thing that people who are you know, drug addicts. That okay, let me back up, no hate on drug addicts, but it seems like there's two types of people in recovery. There's those that really want to be better and don't want to think about their past lifestyle and they want to get better. And then there's those that hit the war stories and want to talk about all the crazy things they did in the past and how cool, and they kind of like build up what they've done. I mean, I know criminals who do that too.

31:29 They go to prison, you know, for selling dope, and then they get out and they've changed their life, but they're really still real proud of what they did and how that's their war story. You know, this sounds like their war storying and you know, it doesn't prove his innocence. But it was clear to the jury that they were given only pieces of the conversations to strengthen their case against Williams. And so, you know, you can either believe the conversation pieces however you want to believe them. But the jury believed that that was part of the murder they were discussing. So when the case eventually went to trial in July of the following year, the statements to detectives were suppressed. And what it means if they're suppressed, that means that they're not allowed to be put before the jury because of a violation of what they said were Williams Miranda rights. Now, the most damning statement was his denial that he had never been in the home, and that was presented.

32:22 It was a question that his defense attorneys struggled with at trial. If you were never ever in that home, how did a cigarette with your DNA on it end up in that home? You know? It just it doesn't ring true. And I'm gonna tell you this too. I'll post a picture of this on Facebook for you. I looked at the cigarette butt, okay. I looked at the crime scene photos, and the location of the cigarette butt kind of spoke to me. So, imagine a door in a garage is closed, okay, and you're about to like work yourself up. You're about to go in and you're gonna go commit a murder or a burglary or an arm robbery, whatever it is, and you're kind of trying to calm yourself down. I don't smoke personally, but I know people that do, and the cigarettes kind of like a calming tool. Well, I could see them smoking the cigarettes, calming down, getting ready, and right, let's go. And he throws the cigarette down and then they pulled the door open because the location of the cigarette butt was like in the door crack inside of the garage. So like, if you pull the door open the cigarettes behind the door, does that make sense? It just kind of seemed in my mind that's how that played out. Now, Ultimately, he is convicted of aggravated murder, burglary, and kidnapping. And even though he was convicted, his team was able to successfully convince the jury not to sentence him to death,

33:53 but he was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. Well, good, one us asshole on the street to you know, be a leitch on society, right, all right, But there's more so when once he goes to prison, this is kind of interesting. But there's a guy named Eric Yngling and he's known as the jailhouse snitch. Okay, Cameo Petaway, the other DNA on the cigarette, was tried in a separate courtroom from Williams. His case was dismissed by Judge James Bates, saying the prosecutors only presented the cigarette as evidence against Petaway, and he stated that the cigarette could have been dropped by anyone. The state did not have incriminating jailhouse calls or testimony from a snitch on him. All right, So in William's case, testimony from Eric Yingling is believed to what would be what was the deciding factor in his case? All right, So cameo. Petaway's case was dismissed because the judge said, that's all you had against him. There was nothing else, and you know, anyone could have dropped the cigarette. So this Yngling guy that was in County jail in December twenty eleven, now he was in there for failing to pay child's a board. Okay, so he's another deadbeat. He told the jury that he befriended Williams and that during a late night conversation, Williams told him he was tormented by the sound of a crinkling bag as Lisa Straube tried to breathe. He named Williams, Petaway and another

35:31 East Sideman named Eric Taylor, as the killers. Now, there were several problems with Yngland's testimony, including the inclusion of Taylor, who was never even considered a strong suspect by the police and was never charged. In addition, all the details that Yingling told the public are told the jury were publicly known. When he talked to police, he freely admitted to them that he was looking for a deal and that his wife looked up some of the details, all right, so that's kind of sketchy, and that TV station did a little investigating and they learned that Yingling was paid thousands of dollars after he testified against Williams. Now, I don't know the details surrounding that, so I can't make a decision on that. I mean, you know, I just would have to know more to make a decision on that. But in an hour long conversation and subsequent text messages, Yingling stood by his story. Okay, he said, and this is a quote. I couldn't get Williams to shut up. He was pouring it out. It was like I was a priest and he was in a confessional. And he said that detectives initially did not believe his story about Williams until he casually mentioned that Williams told him about finding Iraqi dollars in the home. Because remember they found those envelopes with the Iraqi money in it. So everything kind of got quiet at that point of to him, and the air in the room changed. He explained that detectives

37:04 told him that no one knew about the money in the master bedroom except for the killers, the strabs, and the police. So when it's all said and done, though, that information wasn't true because those Iraqi dollars were listed on a search warrant, and that search warrant was released to the media, So within a week of the murder, they were being discussed on a bunch of media outlets, including CNN right a large media outlet. Now, the prosecutors emphasized in William's trial that no one knew about that information, and at one point one of the detectives was asked if anyone else knew about that money, and he replied they did not. It's impossible to know whether he knew of the media coverage, but the information was known when Yanling went to the police. Okay, so I don't think that the police were lying here.

37:58 I think that they just I mean, how could you know what someone else knows? And you know, the timeframe is sketchy here. This is kind of like looking back on an armchair quarterbacking yet when you don't know exactly when somebody knows what they knew. So Williams denies ever having any type of in depth conversation with Yingling in jail, and he said, had I been a jury member and had I not known the truth, I probably would have believed Eric Yingling too. That's how convincing he came across. He's a master manipulator. He also said. William said, but I do believe that I was set up. I believe that whoever done that placed the cigarette there to throw investigators off. I believe with the past record that I had and the promoting prostitution charge that I had, that Detective Kozak arrested me on the case.

38:46 So in another interview with this station w t O L eleven, he admitted to being a drug dealer, a pimp, you know, But he says, I ain't no killer. I had no involvement in the case. And I pray, I'm sure his prayers are legitimate too, right, that the families get justice for their family members. And I pray that one day the truth is told and that Johnny and Lisa's killers are put behind bars where they deserve to be. Now a jailhouse snitch or the jailhouse snitch. Eric Ingling said that Williams told him that the couple was bagged in an attempt to get them to tell them where the money was, and while doing this, Lisa died, and then they killed Johnny. The couple you know, remember, was found in the kitchen, and their clothing suggested that they had been moved from one location to another, and a torn picture of Johnny and Lisa was also later found in a sun room and Johnny's wallet was on his stomach.

39:47 So there's a whole lot of like back and forth here trying to figure out who's telling the truth, who's lying. And the problem is, when you're in a cessed pool of liars, kind of gets hard to believe or hard to understand. So when it was all said and done, Sam Williams and Cameo Petaway were the only two people charged in the killing. Williams was convicted and narrowly avoided the death sentence, even though he still adamantly maintains his innocence, and Petaway's case was dismissed because of a lack of evidence. But if you talk to people or read about people who live in that area, no one believes, even if they were involved, that they did it by themselves.

40:30 There is a lot of speculation that some other people were involved in this. No one has been able to show that the men knew Johnny or Lisa, Like there's no connection between them directly, I personally. And the reason I wanted to name this episode Phrenemies is because it doesn't seem like any of their friends were true, Like none of them seemed like real friends. It seemed like a bunch of wildflower whatever you want to call them, wallflower kids that are just all over the place, and no one's really a genuine friend. And another thing about this is that many of Johnny's friends didn't even know that he was staying at Leasta's home, and they didn't even know the address, and very few people knew that the parents would be out of the home.

41:15 That's according to people's statements. There's also been a appeal since this case was quote unquote closed if you will right, I don't know if closure is really the right word. And I pulled the appellate the paperwork from the courts, and there was a little bit more detail in there. I thought that y'all might be interested to know. In the years that have passed, so whenever Williams was appealing his conviction, He brought up ten errors that he felt were against him, and I'm not going to read all of them because some of them are just like you know, talking about statutes and all that.

41:59 But the first one, his complaint was that there was not enough evidence to support that he participated in this crime. I kind of do find it hard to believe your DNA was out a scene and you weren't there. The second one was he says that his convictions are against the manifest weight of the evidence, meaning that kind of the same thing that there's there's more saying he didn't do it than is saying he he did do it. And he also argued that he had asked for emotion for a change of venue, which means he wanted to be tried elsewhere, not exactly where this had taken place, because he felt like the jury pool might be tainted, and since that was denied, that his due process and his equal protection rights you know, per the constitution were you know, were wasn't upheld. He also, by the way, got upset because the trial court showed photographs of the deceased, and because they did, he felt like he was being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

43:01 Him, he I don't know if found that laughable, you know, And he goes on and on and he makes other or other arguments. But one of the ones I found interesting too, too, is that the courts also made him pay unspecified costs, including fees, and he said that that was wrong and shouldn't have happened because they didn't first determine that he was able to pay those costs. What what in the world? It kind of this reminded me of something I gotta tell you'all real quickly. I used to own a business, okay, and I'm not going to go into what the business was, but I owned a business for many, many years, and I caught this woman stealing from me, all right, and the item she stole was worth one hundred and ten dollars. And that may not sound like a lot of money, but when I was younger and I owned it, you know, it pissed me off more than the money. It just pissed me off that she would do it because she had been come into my business for many years. And so I um, she got arrested on it. I had the videotape and everything, and I went to court whenever her case came up and Um, so I'm up there and this woman is up there, and there's a little judge, you know, and and the judge is asking questions, and she says, okay, well, you know, you're guilty of stealing, and you're gonna have to um, you're gonna have to pay one hundred and ten dollars plus court costs and blah blah blah. And that woman looked up at that judge and said, uh, I can't afford to pay for that. That's why I stole it. And I looked over and it just word vomited out. I said, well, but then maybe you

44:32 ought to steal within your pay grade. And the judge like chuckled, so funny. Um, the judge chuckled. So then later on the woman came up to the business to she had to pay in a money order, and she told my worker and by the way, the place, the business of this place is rude. Just because I stole from her doesn't mean she has to be rude, okay, bitch. So you know, we can move on a little bit into the you know, his his um appeal here. And part of the factual background when I was reading through it too, was we already know. You know, they had the bags of the head, they had the tape around them and everything that they both were bound behind their backs, you know, their hands were. But something interesting was that Lisa's feet were not taped, which tells me she needed to be able to move, you know what I mean. It was like they subdued him because he was the bigger, stronger guy, but they wanted her to be able to move. And considering it was her parents house that, you know, that would be a reason why we'd want her to be able to move and not him, right, we want to limit his mobility and have her, you know, have her moving around the house because she knows where things would be.

45:42 But let's talk about what actually happened to them, because you know, strangulation and choking. You know, people tend to say those things like they're interchangeable, and they're really not. And I wanted to explain that to my listeners because it's important. Right. So, the doctor that the pathologist did their autopsies, it was a doctor Pandy. He was the deputy coroner and forensic pathologist with the Lucas County Coroner's Office and he did both of He did both of their autopsies, and he described their injuries and the manner in which they were bound. And he also stated that both of them did have toxicology reports run on them, and that they both had therapeutic levels of vicadin and percocet. Actually Lisa did. Lisa had vicadin and percocet in her system, and look, I know she's a victim. I'm not going to discount that.

46:38 You know, it should raise a red flag when you have vicadin and percocet in your system. I mean therapeutic levels, meaning low levels that she didn't od and die. And then Johnny had minute levels of percocet in his system, and he also had marijuana. So I think it would be wrong of me to not tell the detail there that matters, that they were both you know, slightly under the influence of narcotics. It tells to me a more complete story that these weren't. They played a role in not their death, but in the lifestyle that they were living and the people that they were surrounding themselves with. I think it kind of tells a story there, So please don't think that I'm talking bad about them, but it is part of the story. Now, when doctor Pandy was, you know, pointedly asked what was the cause of death for both Johnny and Lisa. He said it was boom. He said it was asphyxiation due to strangulation and suffocation, and he couldn't say exactly which which one of them died first. But you know, people I don't think understand strangulation, okay, And something that's really common is that people, you know, miss report or they misunderstand the difference between strangulation and when you don't under and choking. And if you don't understand the difference, you know, it kind of limits people to understanding what violence is

48:14 and that when you are strangled, there is absolute homicidal intent behind a strangulation. Anyone who has survived a strangulation, if you read stories about those, this is not someone trying to scare you. The most basic need in life is oxygen is air, and when someone is depriving you of breathing, the intent is very clear. It's extremely It's the basic necessity breathing and when someone takes that away from you, what could possibly be the ultimate goal there? Right, So there's a couple of facts I wanted to tell you about strangulation. First, one is that majority of strangulation attacks do not leave in visible external injuries on the victim. Why I don't want to tell you that.

49:05 I want you to know that because abuse is very common and it's throughout our society, and I don't want you to ever mistake the fact. If you think somebody that you know or love is being abused, you don't say, oh, well, I don't see any marks on them, they must not be being abused, because that's not the case. Majority of the time. You won't see marks on their throat. That's scary, you know. Even people who are killed by manual strangulation by the hands, sometimes they won't even see marks at autopsy. Then when they exuome the body months or even years later, they can see ridges and marks that were not seen at the autopsy. That's incredible too. You ought to research that scary, you know, and so someone might. You might think someone drowned, and then you exume the body and you realize, holy crap, there's handprints clearly around our throat or his throat. But strangulation has also been identified as one of the most lethal forms of domestic violence and sexual violence because unconsciousness may occur within seconds and death within minutes. And if anything, I almost hope in a weird way, that's what happened with Johnny and Lisa. I don't I think they were tormented before their deaths, I really do. But hopefully it was quick, you know, and their you know, oxygen supply was quickly cut off.

50:28 But something very important about strangulation is that it is considered by those that study it to be the ultimate form of power and control, as the batterer demonstrates his command over the victim's next breath. Think of the fear Johnny and Lisa must have felt, knowing that the basic necessity of oxygen was dependent on the people terrorizing them and standing in front of them that taped them up. To know that your existence is leveraged against a monster in front of you, it's terrifying. So luckily though, today, forty eight states have passed laws to prosecute strangulation and suffocation assault as felonies, as they should be. There is nothing misdemeanor about cutting off someone's airway, and usually that's in reference to you know, violence against women's acts and things of that nature. But men are strangled too, you know. But there was a quote that a survivor state said, and I wanted to read it to you because it kind of made me go wow. Quote. Every survivor will tell you the same story.

51:49 The inability to breathe is terrifying. It is fundamentally terrifying. It is so basic to our ability to survive. Being hit is bad, but losing the ability to breathe as the result of strangulation is worse in a whole host of ways. I urge you to understand what those who are subjected to this behavior go through. I mean, to not be able to breathe. You know, a lot of people fear drowning. It's kind of the same concept, you can't breathe. Now, going back to mister Williams here and how he didn't do this and that whole history of his life that I read to you, and he's acting like he's just a victim of being a bad guy.

52:34 Right here are a couple of facts about strangulation. Did you know that the perpetrators of the mass homicides at the Pulse nightclub, at the Fort Lauderdale Airport, at the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church in Texas, at the Boston Marathon bombing, and many more, all have a public record history of domestic violence and usually strangulation. My point being there, when people have the propensity for violence, strangulation is not out of it. And this guy Williams shows a history of that. He batters women. He just upped the anti. That's the difference between a domestic view domestic abuse victim and a domestic abuse survivor is they just never got the chance to up the anti. And one more, when domestic violence perpetrators strangle their victims, not only is this a felonious assault, but often results in an attempted murder, but even more often eventually turns fatal. When these people are violent, you know, they have the propensity.

53:53 A rage filled domestic violence strangler, you know who has every possible lethality marker for being a mass killer. You know, is just there in people's faces. Okay, So what's the difference between strangulation and choking? Strangulation The external pressure to the neck by any means that obstructs blood flow and or airflow in the neck. Strangulation is a form of asphyxia, and it is generally done intentionally and is a felony crime in most states. Choking is a partial or complete obstruction of the airway due to a foreign body, Like you choke on a piece of food that people don't choke you, people strangle you.

54:37 It's so much worse, you know, it's so much worse. And asphyxiation is the state or process of being deprived of oxygen. Suffocation, y'all, with a pillow, a bedsheet, hand over the face, a bag over your head. It's just horrific. And I want you to know too. Strangulation is also a gen crime. Most stranglers are men. Most stranglers are men. Williams is a man like. He kind of just fits the criteria, is what I'm trying to tell you. Luckily though, when it comes to strangulation, I guess if we had to look at a bright side of their death, hopefully they did not suffer beyond being terrified and terrible, you know, justification. But loss of consciousness can happen within five ten seconds of strangulation. But y'all, those bags suffocation, Oh my god. But I think the media has got to get it right. When strangulation is framed well in the media, it uses precise language and it does not misidentify strangulation as choking, because we want to include what the victim went through, and it will frame the severity of what they went through when we say asphyxiation. Know the difference, and know that the signs sometimes are that there are signs you don't see it. So further on in his in his appeal, he made an argument that there was a bunch of partial profile There were a bunch of partial profiles that were not suitable for comparison purposes that were taken from the scene,

56:13 and inside Johnny's sweatshirt pocket there was a DNA contribution from an unknown female number one and an unknown individual. A swab from the inside of Johnny's sweatpant pockets indicated DNA contributions from an unknown female number one. So there was another female all up in Johnny's pants, And I don't mean that weird. We don't know if she was in there afterwards or whatever. They also did get DNA profiles and hairs from Johnny's sweatpants from the duct tape around the wrists. And I'm just telling you, you know, that casino chick that I mentioned that was interview, I don't feel good about her. She doesn't sit right with me. I feel like there was more to that than what the police were able to get from her. You know, just because she wasn't arrested doesn't mean I don't think that there was something going on there. And remember that text message that Alex Casino sent to that girl she was having problems with, and I only had pieces of it. Well, I was able to get that full text message. This is what it said, and this is a direct quote. You do not know shit about me, Fam, So fall back because I promise you ain't. I promise you I ain't. No bitch, I do this shit, Fam. Watch the news. Bitch, motherfucker's get duct taped and tied up and left for dead. So what youre trying to do? Fam? You saw me looking at you at the store.

57:36 You should have asked me and I would have told you who I am. Period. I feel like she was involved, way more involved than she was ever you know, dealt with all right. Cameo pet Away, the other guy that was his case was dismissed. Also, his baby mama said that Cameo and Williams smoked Newport's cigarettes and it was not uncommon for the two to share the cigarettes when they were together, so I think he was trying to make the argument. Oh well, I may have shared one and the stuff that he stuffed it back in the pack. Maybe he had something to do with it, but I'm not I don't think so. Another thing, remember how Miss Casino had the dog problem with them them and the car car problem with them. Well, with respect to the dog incident, Alex testified in September and October that she lived in a motel and she had a pitbull puppy. Zach recalled. Johnny and Lisa visited Alex at the hotel room and saw that Alex was not taking care of the puppy, and Johnny and Lisa offered to buy it. Alex wanted one hundred dollars. Lisa and Johnny paid her fifty, took the puppy, but never paid the other fifty, and this made Alex mad. She testified they eventually made up and she started hanging out with Johnny and Lisa again. She didn't take care of a puppy.

58:57 Johnny and Lisa tried to help the puppy. You know, I just as far as the car incident went, you know, we know that she you know, Johnny gave seven hundred and fifty dollars or Alex gave Johnny seven hundred fifty dollars in cash, said she would give the other half when the title was notarized because Zach was really hurting for money. Excuse me, Johnny was really hurting for money, and you know that whole fiasco. I just feel like this girl was way more involved than what she was charged with. So back to Eric Yngling, this is also in his appeals. You know, Eric testified and trial that he did talk to mister Williams and that he had developed kind of a relationship with him, and he said that since he had already been sentenced, other inmates tended to trust that he would not attempt to make a deal with the police in exchange for testimony because he had already been sentenced. And he admitted that he had several other convictions and that he had provide did information in other cases. But what he described is kind of interesting.

1:00:08 Gingling described that William Williams told him what happened to Johnny and Lisa. He told me that they went through the garage ding ding ding, because that's what the cigarettat cigarette boat was found, and that he was kind of unclear how either Eric Taylor, that other guy that he implicated or cameo. He never did understand which one knew Johnny Clark, but he did say that they went into the garage and there was an entrance door to the home, and when they knocked and opened it, that Johnny Clark was on the phone and when he saw who was there, he said something this is not a quote, but something to the effect of, Hey, what are you doing here? Who are these people? He said that he went into the house and they started yelling, getting violent with it, and Johnny Clark told Lisa to go upstairs. Did not say if it was a bedroom or what, just go upstairs. And they started yelling and screaming about where's the diesel? Meaning where's the money? And they're not telling them anything. There's nothing there.

1:01:05 He keeps saying there's nothing. One story that Sam says is that they ransacked the home. The next story he says, they don't. Throughout the time I was with him, little things changed, and when they did, they always slanted to his benefit. When he went on to tell me that they were in their searching for stuff and couldn't find anything, Lisa had gone upstairs and went into a locked room. And remember Lisa's legs were not bound. Remember I mentioned that, I kind of believe it. I don't know what type of room, but Sam had to push through that locked door to get in there and bring her out downstairs. And I don't know if you remember, but there was damage to the door from the outside in. Based on the evidence at the scene, it just makes sense to what was found at the scene. Also, he says when they brought Lisa downstairs, and they finally got tired of begging them to tell them where the stuff was, yelling and threatening them. They were going to pistol whip them, but then they were worried about DNA, so they set them in chairs facing each other wherever they took the bags and Johnny did not get a bag over his head first.

1:02:13 According to the story, it was Lisa. They were trying to torture Lisa, for lack of better words, to motivate Johnny to tell them, hey, here's the money, here's where the money is, here's where the drugs are. And it never happened. On the third time that Lisa passed out, she never woke up, and that's why they went Sam and Cameo at that point went to the garage. These kids were apparently still on the upper level of the house, not in the basement, and they were out there smoking a cigarette cigarette talking about what they were going to do. Doesn't it make sense to you. Sam had told me that he had thought him and Cameo had talked about maybe killing Eric Taylor. The cigarette that was found with the DNA. They are sharing in the garage at the time. They are discussing what to do while they were in the and remember this too, Lisa's shirt was kind of rolled up a little bit and her pants pulled a little bit down, so kind of like they drug her from one room to the other. Remember that. So while they were in the garage, Eric Taylor was inside killing Johnny Clark, he said, Yingling recalled William saying how he will never forget the way that that bag made a crinkling sound going inside the mouth and outside the mouth as young Lisa Straw breathed. That's one thing that was repeated a million times. He further said, Cam Petaway, by Sam's word, is the one who had killed Lisa Straw, and that they did not go there to kill anybody. And y'all you'll see this time and

1:03:44 time again where everyone thinks they're on the same page as far as the bad guys go, and then one of them whiles out and does something way out of left field. They weren't expecting. But you were still there and you were still principal to what happened. Yingling also said that Williams revealed they had found some sort of foreign money in the in the straw house. It was Gaddaffi or so damned insane, however he said it, But what he was meaning was Saddam Hussey. But he said so damned insane. That's kind of funny. Yngling testified appellant left the money for the house because even if it was real, he didn't know how to exchange it for US currency. And that makes sense. Why would you Why did they leave the money behind?

1:04:25 That was kind of you know, the detectives were wondering. So, I mean, overall, y'all, this case goes all over the place. In my humble opinion, I think they got part of the guys. I think that they totally miss some other people. Maybe it's a lack of evidence. You know, sometimes the bad guys look up and I hate that. I absolutely hate that. Karma's a bitch though, and they're gonna they're gonna screw up again, all right. But if anything, this story is a cautionary one. You don't brag about your money. If anything, y'all succeed in silence, if you have to just be quiet, right, succeed in silence. And don't keep shitty friends. It's that simple. They'll turn on you. Don't keep a bad crowd because when it comes down to it, you're either eating at the table or you're on the menu.