House of Horrors Part 2 | The Crimes of Fred & Rosemary West

0:00 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable.

0:51 Warning, unspeakable is intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listing discretion is advised. Hey y'all, KJ here back for another episode of Unspeakable, what's going on? It's Thanksgiving Week! Thank you, Jesus! I'm actually off all week from teaching, which is really fun for me, but that actually means now I've got more time to write podcasts. So I'm rolling out a whole bunch of new podcasts, reall, I've got some bonus episodes in the mix, and you spoke, and I listened, and I have a local case that I'm working on right now too, that's a good one, that y'all are going to be really, really interested in. That said, my dog also had puppies. Have y'all been looking at Facebook? I'm a post-amon Patreon too, because they are so cute.

1:31 I got five precious brand new French Bulldog puppies, and they're so cute. You need to go look if you haven't, and just imagine the puppy breath, because they're precious. I've got a shout out too, all the way from Brian, Texas. I need to say hello to Miss Jillian Witten. Hey, go! How's it going in Texas? I bet it's hot. I don't know, maybe not, but it's been hot down here. We've had maybe one or two days of cool, but usually we get y'all's weather after y'all get it, but I hope things are going good in Texas. I hope that you're having the best week ever, and I hope that y'all enjoy the rest of this episode, because I want a pat on the back. I'm patting my own damn self on the back, because this episode was a mother to write, and I don't know if you realize it, but I put a whole lot of research and effort into these cases, and this one, I almost threw my hands up, because this dude was cute.

2:19 He was killing everybody he came in contact with. I mean, I'm sprozed and by the left on the planet after I finished writing this one, but let's jump back into it. We can do a quick recap for the people who have forgotten what happened last episode, but there's a whole bunch of people that came in contact with Rosemary and Fred West, and they ended up missing dead or raped. Okay? There was nobody that ended up with a good outcome after meeting these people. We had nanny number one, which was Anne McFall, 18 years old, up and missing, and she was pregnant. Fred's daughter, Charmaine, who is eight years old, she went missing while Fred was incarcerated. Then Fred's first wife, Catherine Costello, she went missing, was never reported missing to the police. Fred had also killed young Henry Feney, who was a little bitty fella, and ran him over with ice cream truck.

3:05 The nanny number two was Caroline Owens. She did survive that brutal rape and kidnapping. She escaped, but then as fate would have it, I guess, they got no jail time for what they did to her, convinced the courts that she was a willing participant in this and just paid a small fine. And then Shirley Robinson, who was 18 years old, also pregnant by Fred, was reported missing to police. Then Fred's sister was also molested and raped and impregnated by Fred as well, but yet this fella is still walking freely amongst everybody else. This is an un-comfortable number of people who have had their lives affected or even ended by these two. And we aren't even close to being done yet.

3:46 This one is out of the box. Hopefully, I've appropriately established the fact that Fred is not only dangerous, but he's an accomplished predator. And I don't know that that's even a good thing to say, an accomplished predator, but this dude's bad news. And then he marries the heifer of the century, who's a horrible person as well, and they are just like, you know, gas and fire. I mean, it's just a terrible combination. Now, while not everyone who came in contact with Fred and Rose was killed, there was a whole lot going on with how he treated people. And what's even more sick is his penchant for young girls to be his sexual muses. Fred was doing things behind closed doors that the average person would find to be absolutely abhorrent.

4:30 I mean, it's disgusting. And while it's totally legal, y'all, to get your freak on and do your thing with other consenting adults, the fact was that he was committing acts of bond. And violence sex acts with underage girls. His wife was helping, and it's well documented. Not only did he enjoy depraved sex acts with minors, he actually then converted his homes seller into a torture chamber to accomplish his fantasies without detection. And what's even more concerning is the fact that his wife, who was very aware of what was going on, participated in it in her own home. Yeah, and doesn't seem to find any issue with it whatsoever.

5:15 In fact, I think that she was totally intrigued by it because she continues to take part in it with him and things continue to escalate. Now let's talk about real quick what exactly I mean by a torture chamber. Walk with me if you will. Down a set of stairs into a cold, damp, seller. And as you're looking around the room, you're going to notice it looks like everything you would visualize in a horror movie. The walls look patched together with putty and plaster. But then there's some places where you can see the brick. And then there's these strange drawings of like a cowboy or two.

5:56 And then this other little critter above them and it's like a child's drawing. And I'm, look, I'm not sure of the date of the photo that I'm actually referring to. And maybe these drawings were done after the fact. I'm not sure. It's still there and it's creepy. And torture was going on down there. Y'all, I mean, like literal torture of people was going on down there. There's exposed beams above the overhead and these beams were used to hang his victims from as they were being sexually abused and tortured by Fred and Rose West.

6:36 I read how they had drilled holes into the beams so that they could use contraptions to hoist these people up as they abused them. Basically in your mind, there should be a picture that's emerging of like a secret of place where sadistic sexual abuse was taking place. And no one can hear the screams or see the hot falling tears of these victims that would go there and they would never see the light of day again, at least while they were breathing. See, Fred was a laborer during the day and his job would afford him the opportunity to create these contraptions that he could then use in his torture chamber at night.

7:22 His most prized contraption would be one made of metal and designed specifically to tie a human body to where they couldn't get away, but they were still able to be manipulated in a way that best suited Fred's sexual needs or wants. And he would inflict acts of sexual depravity and pain on these victims. He literally got off by watching suffering. And then he's married to a woman who agrees with it. What are the chances, man? One of the first people to be used and abused in this sex chamber would be someone very close to Fred.

8:07 Matter of fact, it would be his own daughter, Anna Marie. And at first when you're looking at her, the most notable thing is how much Anna Marie looks like Fred. She has those piercing blue eyes and she's got this strong brow. But other than that, they don't have many similarities at all. They are nothing alike in terms of personality or heart, but she does have those eyes. And I'm going to post pictures of this for you so you can see them. And according to Anna Marie, her father was a compulsive liar. Even once, listen to this, even once claiming to all of his friends that and his kids actually, he claimed it to all of his kids that he had invented the television, which everybody knew wasn't true.

9:01 But he was so convincing and so adamant and so just matter of fact when he was talking about how he invented the television that all of his kids believed it. And they were too adamant. My dad invented the television. Can you imagine how dumb everybody looks repeating this, these kids, when everybody knows that's just simply not true, but he believed it and he liked to compulsively lie about anything he could. And if you're willing to buy his bill of goods, then I guess he's winning. Do you realize a level of psychopathy you are dealing with when someone not only compulsively lies, but they even believe their own lies.

9:42 And I know you know somebody like that. We all do. And then in return, they expect others to believe them even when these are just clearly outrageous claims. Pathological liars, by the way, they lie incessantly to get their way, but they do it with like little awareness that others might be picking up on the fact that what they're saying is just outrageous. And when it comes to pathological liars, it's often seen in people who have anti social personality disorders and narcissistic personality disorders. Well, you think have you been listening to Fred and Rose? A pathological liar, y'all, they are goal oriented, whether it's to get their way in some situation or even if they just want to be seen as more interesting than they really are.

10:29 It kind of made me think maybe he knows Romeo and Michelle at the right school reunion. I mean, they invented posted notes. Y'all remember that? So Romeo and Michelle, they created the post the notes and Fred invented the TV. We believe them right? And these types of liars also have very little regard or respect for the rights of others or the feelings of others, which aligns with exactly what's about to happen next. Because at eight years old, the very age that Rose killed Anne Marie's sister, Sermain, Anne Marie was used to the lies that her dad would tell, but she did not know about her father's sexual appetite until she became one of the torture chambers.

11:12 Post-occupants subjected to a horrifically brutal rape by her father while her stepmother held her down. Your brain has got to go somewhere where you're like, how in the world would a woman who has raised a child? How could you possibly, in any way, shape or form, find this acceptable or arousing or whatever it was to watch a child be tortured, one that you were supposed to love and raise, you know, and you just go along with it? I read some stuff about how Rose was probably a victim herself, bullshit.

11:53 No she was not. No she was not because you, y'all, you would have to kill me before I would turn my baby over any of my children. I'm not kidding. You'd have to put a bullet in my head. There's no way. No amount of fear would ever make me back away from my babies. None. I'd be better off dead anyway. But she does horrific things with Fred to this child. On that day that would change little Anne Marie's life forever, Rose and Fred told her, go down to the basement, come see, we want to show you something. And then all three of them walked down the steps that I mentioned earlier.

12:33 And when they got to the bottom, Anne Marie noticed that there was a bunch of like tools on the ground. And it gave her a really uneasy feeling and so she told her parents, I don't like it down here. I want to go back up. This is kind of scary. And that's when Fred turned to her, his demeanor change and he told her to shut up. Right when they get down into the room, Rose Mary, like a freaking animal, would immediately rip off all of the clothes of eight year old Anne Marie. And she was forced to lie on the floor. This cold damp wet nasty seller and she's naked. Her mother, her stepmother has ripped her clothing off.

13:16 Can you imagine that this little girl must have been scared out of her ever loving mind? And she then asked her dad, what are these tools for? Like what are you doing? And it scared her so much that she started screaming out for anyone who might could hear her. And in her own words, she said that that's when Rose Mary came up when she started screaming and sat on her face. Like sat on that child's face. She made it incredibly hard to breathe and in that same instance, and this is tough y'all, but it should be because this is the reality of what this child experienced.

13:59 As her stepmother sat on her face and was suffocating her, she says that she felt the most horrible pain she had ever felt in her entire existence inside of her. She was being penetrated vaginally by a tool of some sort, which is not explicitly stated. And it was hurting her. So she starts to panic because she can barely breathe. She cannot even process what could be causing this horrific pain. And that's when Rose Mary moves and immediately gags her. She takes a piece of ripped sheet, convenient, right, that that was down there.

14:40 You know how this makes me think about guys who carry around rape kits, they'll call them like, you know, in their trunk and the bad guys have what they need to do what they want. This is like a fricking craft room for rape and sadism. They have everything they need to put down, to do these horrible acts to people. They had the ripped pieces of sheets prepared and it was put in her mouth and then tied behind her, her back, you know, and then covered on top of that was a large piece of black carpet tape across her face. So the little girl is gagged, right? Can't talk. My hands are my mouth right now. She can't breathe.

15:21 It's tied behind her back and then they take tape and put that over her face. It makes me think a little caley Anthony, if you're familiar with that case in Florida, whenever Dr. G, the medical examiner, you know, they were kind of talking about why, you know, what was the cause of death and she said, I don't know, but I can tell you that no live child needs to ever have tape over their mouth and nose and no dead child certainly would have tape or put over their mouth or nose. You know, she's basically suffocating and that's when Fred said something to her that should make everyone sick to their stomach. He explained to his eight year old little girl that all fathers do this to their daughters and it's done to make them quote a better person and eventually a good mother, unquote.

16:08 So she needed to stop complaining. This is a form of manipulation and absolute control mechanism to make this little girl believe that this is normal, this is acceptable and everything he's doing to her is for her own good. He tells her she should be thankful to them for what they're doing to her and thankful that she has such good parents, you know, a little mind game here of if you complain then you're a bad person. If you go along with it, then you're a good person. Just sick the the layers as you pull them away of what this child was experiencing.

16:52 And then Anne Marie says that she was tied to a metal contraption and was just thinking to herself and remember y'all she's an eight year old little girl. She thought to herself, please just let me die. This hurts so much. Please, I just want to die. Make it end. But then being a little girl only eight years old in her head, she says she started thinking, well, wait a minute, daddy told me that this is normal and this is what has to be done. And so I probably need to stop making such a big ordeal about this because it's normal, right? And as she's trying to think her way through it, she was then left tied up attached to that contrappment and she heard the door to the cellar clothes behind her, which she also noted was a soundproof door and there she just hung until her parents decided to return a while later.

17:53 And so when they did return her stepmother rose, came down the stairs and immediately started belittling her. She says she sneered at me just talking, just talking bad to her and telling her how horrible of a kid she was and how this should not have been so difficult. And then rose walks up and she had these long fingernails and she starts just scratching all over the little girl, scratching down her chest and all over her body. And I'm not talking about just like scratches of like a little swipe at the kid. She literally scratched her and was making her bleed. So after a while of being belittled and beaten and scratched, they both would untie her and they took her to the bathroom where they forced her to bathe and she said that this was excruciating because she was so sore from the rape, she was bleeding or skin hurt and then to make it even worse, she was forced to go to her dad and tell him thank you, thank you for what you have done to me.

19:05 And to show the power of true mental abuse and manipulation, check this out after they had done this to this little girl, she then was allowed to go to work with her daddy. She got to go to work with her daddy because he wanted her to know how close they were and he said we have our little secrets, don't we? So you get to go to work with me and then he would give her some money while he was with her at work and let her go to the store and buy herself a treat but it was their secret because Enri could not tell Rose about this. And then he would always tell her afterwards, oh I'm sorry about things, I'm sorry that you don't understand or that it hurts you but don't ever forget that I love you, I love you.

19:53 So little Enri just kept thinking in her mind how lucky she was to have such good parents that they would spend that special time with her and help her to grow. The manipulation and y'all this goes on today and household, household all around us, we just don't know it. Even sicker is the fact that this would become a regular occurrence and eventually though she would start being threatened with beatings if she told anyone of what was going on in the household and so she's a kid. People often ask me, you know why don't kids just tell or why don't abused women just leave their abusers, why would you sit there and put up with that?

20:35 Well it's just not that simple y'all especially when you're a kid, what are you gonna do? Where are you gonna go? You're eight years old. Where are you gonna go? The two people you quote unquote are supposed to trust the most are the people, very people who are doing it to you and she's so mixed up in her mind she doesn't understand because of the mind games that are being played. Something else that's really sad too is that whenever kids do speak up about any type of abuse that they're experiencing and I want everyone to listen to this. Remarkably as a society we have not figured out yet that the people we tend to go to first to discuss what a child may disclose to us may be the very ones that are inflicting the pain upon them and the abuse, i.e. their parents.

21:27 And I need you to imagine you're the kid right you would disclose this and then it becomes your worst nightmare to think that the people that are in control of you and the ones that are hurting you would be tipped off by another adult that you told and you should have kept your mouth shut. So in order to avoid any of you know future abuse or worse situations kids just don't speak up they don't say anything their kids they're scared and the very people that they're supposed to be able to trust the most in the entire world are the ones that are hurting them. Why would they go tell somebody else? They can't even trust the very people in the home.

22:10 Rose Mary the stepmom not only helped her father sexually abuse her but she was also an extremely short tempered woman and she would become so angry that Marie said that Rose would actually throw off at the mouth when she got angry. Those were her actual words talking about her stepmother and she added that it was like the lights would be on but nobody was home because Rose went into a blind rage whenever she was angry and she would grab whatever was near her and she would throw it at the kids or beat the kids with it. It didn't even matter what it was it was literally described as just blind rage that would come out of this woman.

22:55 Let me ask you something would you be willing to go tell on someone who stabbed you? When you feared for your life I think not. Did you know that Rose actually stabbed and Marie one time in a fit of rage? I know you've been listening to previous episodes if not go back and listen. This is not something that's shocking to people who have been in the game and learn about child abuse. Stabbing someone sounds unconscionable until you listen to the story after story after story where it's been ingrained in these kids you listen to what I say you do what I do and you keep your mouth shut and then she's going to stab the little girl.

23:38 You think that little girl is going to go tell somebody if the woman's capable of stabbing her? No, negative. Something else that adds into the equation is that Rose was not someone that freely gave affection and it was very obvious to all of the children involved in this household that they had to earn any affection that they got from her. I didn't even plan to say this but I just I podcast off the cuff. There's a song by Kelly Clarkson called Peace by Peace. If you haven't heard it before, you know what, I'll post it and there's a line in that song where it says that love from her dad didn't come easy and it had to be earned because other than that she was pretty useless to him.

24:26 Right unless she was doing something for him which in her case was given money or whatever. You know imagine you're living in a household where you know you have to earn the affection of somebody. It doesn't come freely and how sad that must feel. Even scarier than that is if you did get the affection from the woman that you really craved then you were scared even more because why is she being so nice to me? What is going on? You can't win in this household. One example in fact is one that one time Rose asked Anne Marie to stay home because she was worried about how she had upset Fred.

25:07 So Anne Marie was kind of freaked out that Rose was being so nice to her though it kind of shocked her and they stayed home together and they kind of talked it through and Rose was really worried about making dad mad. But then when Fred got home Fred started yelling at Rose because remember they were in an argument. Anne Marie having spent the last hours of the day with her stepmother being so kind to her she felt a bit defensive considering how nice Rose had been to her. So Anne Marie kind of stands up for Rose the woman that was raping her beating her and frothing at the mouth throwing things at her and had stabbed her. Don't forget that part.

25:47 This child kind of stood up and said Dad you know ease up on her you know you're being kind of mean and in that instant like that. Fred changes his anger looks at his daughter and promptly kicked her in the face with steel toe boots busting her mouth and teeth. So how do you think Rose reacted right? Oh my God. Oh my God. No no no right jumps on the child tries to protect the child right. Wrong. I'm going to tell you what she did. She laughed at Anne Marie and said well you got what you deserved didn't you.

26:29 As I assessed that situation it became very clear to me what was going on. It seemed to me that this was a pre planned situation that Rose predicted what happened. She knew how that child would react because that child was decent and Marie was a good decent child and she did what she exactly what Rose expected her to do Rose kept her home from school Rose was very nice to her had her do the buy-in of O'Reilly I'm nice I'm just scared of your dad and then turned the anger away from Rose and on to the child.

27:11 Signed sealed delivered done and now Fred's mad at the kid and then both adults stood there laughing at that little girl's busted mouth bleeding out Rose got her way she won. Sick. Now I want you to know this I actually had the audio of this situation being discussed in Anne Marie's own voice when she's older and I'm going to post that because I'm a posted in my Patreon because I want you to hear the sadness the fear and this is so unfortunate heartbreaking but also the shame in her voice while she's telling that story it's like it's like she's feeling shame for what was done to her but you feel it you feel you can hear it in this victims own voice of what she was going through and something else that was also done in the West household is that the children were get what were called their annual beatings their annual beatings can you even actually some of y'all can because you write to me and you tell me look I grew up in a household where things happen to me that are a lot like the podcasts that you do and I want you to know I read every single message you send me because I don't doubt you for one second and I'm so thankful that you made it out and that you're an adult now and that you're able to process this from

28:43 an adult's point of view because having to process this as a kid must be just unobtainable do you ever look back at yourself as a kid and thank God you feel sorry for yourself as that child because you misinterpreted as you misinterpreted a situation in your life and then you look at it through the adult lens and you're like my God what in hell so these annual beatings were described as when all the kids would be pulled into the room and they would have their clothes ripped off and then they would all be beat with belt buckles and then Rose would come in and she would take those long nails I mentioned before and she would punch and scratch and kick all of the kids it sounds like a gang beat in you know what I'm talking about and the boys in the household weren't excluded from these beatings either I know I haven't gone into a lot of depth about all of the children because Rose did have eight I think in total but all of them don't play a huge role in the story so far as I can tell it and we haven't even gotten to a lot of the victims that are left but the boys weren't excluded from the beatings either and one time one of the little boys his name was Steven he was forced to stay home from school by Rose and then when Ann Marie returned from school that afternoon she found that little boy in the bathroom tied to a toilet seat like hands you know around the base of the toilet and he's tied to the toilet seat and she said that when he looked up she did not even recognize who he was at first because he was beaten so badly about the face and in all instances of abuse the children were told

30:15 that this was done for their own good and it had to be done so that they would learn respect for other people Rose would even get in trouble one time with Fred because he would say that if you're going to hit the children you have to make sure it doesn't leave a mark but Fred is going to say if you're going to hit our kids don't leave a mark are you kidding me? So something that you don't often find if you're going to research this case okay and I know this because I've researched this case for two weeks and I've been like down some freaking rabbit holes but when you're researching it you won't find the fact that Ann Marie was just 13 years old when she was forced to do what she called entertain gentleman that would come by the home and this lends itself to tell you just how skilled of an abuser Rose was because she would take the young girl she would take Amory to a bar and get her drunk she's 13 she would take her and get her drunk in bars and then she would be induced basically into doing acts that were just unacceptable of a teenager especially in the presence of her stepmother and wrote and Marie tells one time that Rose took the two of them they went to a bar together and she says that we were having the best time she was so kind to me and as we were drinking she said maybe we should be better friends you know and do more things together because we just don't spend enough quality time together and Amory was soaking this up and she and the alcohol right but she's soaking up this

31:48 attention and yeah maybe we should that would be great and so she starts again leaning in to Rose as a mother figure even though they're in a bar and it's weird but she starts leaning into her and then about that same time Fred shows up and as soon as Fred shows up Rose turned on Anne Marie again it's kind of like the same thing over and over again and so they go outside and Anne Marie can't even walk straight she's so drunk she's 13 and she's not feeling good she can't walk Rose grabs her by the hair pulls her into this van that the family had and then ties her up in the back of the van and then in the presence of her father while her dad watched Rose sexually assaulted that little girl her stepmother is engaging in sex with her stepdaughter while the father watches and don't think that that's absolutely insanity insanity because I have an ex-friend who is in prison right now where he should be for doing the same damn thing disgusting and I used to call him friend and I had no idea behind closed doors he was a brick and pervert disgusting despicable human being there's bullets out there I don't know why he hasn't eaten one yet I digress.

33:08 So like many of the young girls that come into Fred's life Anne Marie you ready for this would also become pregnant by her own father but then it gets even worse because she becomes pregnant by her dad they bring her to the hospital because it becomes really dangerous because she has an ectopic pregnancy and it was extremely painful for her and something that she says as I was listening to her talk and it's with just sadness she said and the fact was that I was brought in by my mother and father I'm pregnant by my own dad and not one person in that hospital looked at me like I was a human being or even questioned why a young 15 year old girl was in the hospital pregnant like no one even questioned it and then to show how valuable she was both Rose and Fred left this 15 year old little girl in the hospital alone for an entire week they never came to visit her the only person who showed up at the hospital to check on her was a friend from school who hadn't seen her and heard she was in the hospital God bless that friend right and then when she was released from the hospital Anne Marie was very sore she felt horrible and she was greeted when she got home with a swift kick in the stomach from her stepmom upon return and while I don't

34:39 know this for a fact I have this searing feeling inside that Rose was jealous of her stepfather because her father had impregnated her I know that's weird but I really feel like that's what it was they then center to her room and then when her father returned home from work that day he came upstairs pulled her out of the bed and made her go downstairs and apologize for upsetting her stepmother she had to go tell her stepmother Rose I'm sorry for upsetting you after you kicked me in the stomach so this was also about the same time that she was forced into prostitution Rose actually would help the teenager put on her makeup and pick out the outfits and it kind of made me think of you know Reba McIntyre you know I'm a singtay you don't even play with me y'all I might have been born just playing white trash but fancy was my name right because they forced her into prostitution and Rose wanted to ensure that Anne Marie knew that she was in charge of this cruelty and therefore when these men would show up to the home to have sex with her stepdaughter her teen daughter that she forced to go to bed with these strangers Rose made a point to go in the room and undress the little girl in front of the men before she left tell me that is not mind games now

36:09 her father was also in an adjacent room and fully aware of what was going on you have to remember this Fred was a voyeur y'all do you know what voyors are a voyeur voyeurism when someone likes to watch someone else having sex for their own pleasure well guess what during their marriage Fred was asking Rose Mary and she was to go meet men and women for sex work and then bring them back to the family's home and in that home Rose had this room she called like her best room or something like that and that's where they would go engage in all of this sex well guess what that was the same room that they would force their daughter to go in to and have sex with these strangers and Fred had designed peep holes in the walls so that he could watch his wife have sex with these strangers but he was also watching his daughter while she was being raped through those same peep holes and then when it was over the men would leave they'd pay their penny to the to the parents and then they wouldn't allow her to bathe they made her just sit there and I guess you know wallow in the filth that they forced her to participate in and this was kind of sad and I didn't put this in my notes but I'm going to bring it up Rose I mean I'm and Maria as an adult you know is reminiscing about what had happened and she looks up with tears in her eyes and she goes I guess I'm very ashamed of what I did and I thought girl you didn't do that you were

37:42 forced to do that it's called derest and abuse and she says but I can live with what happened I just don't want my children to think less of me she was so upset that her kids might think less of her and I hope her kids wrapped their mama up in a hug and say we you're such an animal you're a beast for surviving what you your survivor hunt you're alive you did what you had to do and you made it out you're you won you know in in in some sick aspect I guess you won I wanted to know that but in another way to show how evil Rose was one time a suitor showed up and you know he was going to have sex with their with Anne Marie and he brought chocolates for the young girl and she even mentioned that the man was actually very kind to her during the rape and even kept stopping and kind of checking in with her about her feelings and making sure that he wasn't hurting her now you have to put yourself in her shoes that when you're you're experiencing a ton of abuse that this does seem kind and that he was being thoughtful I guess of her actions in this convoluted way and you're like no you're a grown man going to rape a kid you knew what you were doing is wrong was wrong that's why you're so worried about her and then you brought chocolates I guess to make it better I mean you're still a child rapeist sir but I guess being nice matters but either way while she didn't want the chocolates she couldn't have them anyway because Rose

39:15 took them from her and sat down in a chair and ate them in front of her while laughing at Anne Marie like this parting gift she couldn't even have that and Anne Marie said well I didn't want the chocolates but I can tell you I just wanted someone to love me and if it's this man who shows up and shows that he cares about my feelings in some way then I was willing to accept that maybe that was love and boom if the hammer doesn't drop right there because does that not sound like a lot of teen girls who go searching for love in all the wrong places mistaking sex for love and this type of behavior and abuse would continue until Anne Marie just couldn't take it anymore and at the age of 15 Anne Marie she ran away from home she said I'm done I'd rather go live on the streets by myself then put up with this another minute and I know I've spent a lot of time discussing what happened to this one daughter of his compared to a lot of the other victims I'm about to get to but the reality is we don't know exactly what happened to a lot of these victims spoiler alert because they just up and disappeared so we don't have a story for them to tell but I would be hard pressed to think that it wasn't similar at least to what their daughter was experiencing if not worse and so I think it's really important that a spent the time on this daughter because it shows the mindset the the evil calculation and them just mean this of what she and her siblings experience behind those those walls and even more exciting for Fred right as

40:52 he rapes young women down in that seller were the accessories I guess you would call them I don't know what else to call them but he created his own accessories for a more thrilling experience thrilling for him and Rose that is because the accessories would do nothing but instill extreme horror on the girls who were forced to wear them like something straight out of the movie saw Fred and his wife would enjoy toying with their victims during these horrendous sex games that included homemade torture masks which the girls would see when they went down in the seller before they were put on them and it would limit their senses other than being able to breathe they couldn't see anything they couldn't hear anything they're just sitting in blind darkness praying for the pain and the torture to stop so what exactly do I mean by this well here's an example one of the masks that was used in the torture sessions was found at a later date and I'll explain it it limited all of the senses including sight and hearing all that was left was was was their ability to quote unquote breathe but that's even a stretch because the mask was was made of like tape and all that that was available to the to the victim were two pipes that were stuffed up in their noses that allowed them

42:27 to somewhat breathe but it basically just prolonged their agony so their entire face was taped up and they had these two pipes that were stuck out of their nose so that they could attempt to breathe so I was looking at some some studies that were done by some some psychologist because I was trying to really get my mindset around why someone would want to do this not that it's ever acceptable but but the why and there was a doctor Samuel Smith-Amen who was a US clinical psychologist and he anonymously interviewed 50 men now this was back in the 70s but hey the time frame fits for the for the time frame that some of this was happening who had confessed to having raped someone alright so he studied these 50 men and all of these men had diverse backgrounds diverse social statuses different personalities different mentalities about why they went about what they did but what surprised him most about everything that they said was how unconcerned they sounded when they talked about rape they were not concerned with it as a criminal offense it was more about what they experienced during the rape and motives behind rape y'all they're difficult to quantify okay but the studies show that rapists do have similar characteristics and the top three being these tell me if it sounds like Fred a lack of empathy toward others narcissism and feelings of hostility

43:59 towards women hello he fits the bill perfectly right and then here was a quote and I had to put this in here and I had to read it to you because it's dumb founding one of the rapists that he interviewed this is a direct quote he says I felt as if I had gotten something that I was entitled to and I felt I was repaying her for sexually arousing me the man described both of his rape experiences as quote powerful titillating and very exciting and I felt like that fit Fred right he was repaying the women who sexually aroused him as if it was their fault that he was turned on by them what in the hill kind of mixed up brain do you have going on that you think someone needs to pay for the attractiveness that you feel they put off victim blaming much something I like to do is I like to put myself in the victim's position because then it helps me understand exactly what the victim went through maybe not exactly because I can't understand torture in in conjunction with terror because I've never been tortured and terrorized like these these victims that I'm about to get to where and I but I don't have the capacity to just block it out like some people do some people have mentioned to me you know I have to fast forward through some of your episode because it's so it's

45:29 so striking well it should be and hey if you have to fast forward that's fine but I'm telling you the details because you've got to understand what these people went through so that we don't give these people an ounce of freedom because if you don't fully understand what punishment is and what role it plays in the justice system you're not gonna understand it if you don't know if you block out what happened to these people as rough as it is that's why people get away with it because people don't want to hear it so maybe you're somebody who doesn't think that the role of the justice system is you know to get even or whatever I'm sorry I do I mean the really sad part is that we're not getting even actually we are we're trying to punish people with a level of decency that those people refused to show their victims and we can't punish people in the same way that they punished their victims because we are not those people and we don't want to be those people no matter how how hard or bad these episodes are to listen to they are the story the details are the story and if not then all we're gonna have is a bunch

47:02 of missing people or people who are dead and that just sounds like basic everyday existence to me because people live and people die how they die is the story and we have to explore it I wouldn't expect a jury to want to know I wouldn't expect a jury to not want to know all of the details because if not then they're not going to fully understand what was done and the justice will not prevail and I know that in the last episode I listed a bunch of people that went missing after their interactions with the West's but in this portion of this episode I'm going to take a different approach obviously you understand that these people don't just disappear into thin air something happen to them and I also know that there's been a lot of victims so far so I did put a graphic on Facebook to kind of help keep track if you want to I've put it on my Patreon page as well if you're trying to keep up with with everything that went on but I'm gonna pick back up now with another victim and her name is Linda go GOG-O-U-G-H I know some people say golf I'm just gonna say go now Linda go attended um you know school like a normal girl and then she later went on to a private school that was just for girls and then when she was done with school this is in 1969 she started working as a seamstress and was just making her way in life and you're like Kelly why are you going way back in the gap with these stories because this crime spree that I'm telling you about lasted 20 years this wasn't one week this is a 20 year crime spree that I'm telling you I'm telling you about

48:34 but this young girl Linda is just making her way she's working as a seamstress and on April 19th and this is in 1973 Linda left her family's home after leaving a note that said she was going to a nearby apartment to hang out and according to the to the neighbors of the West's Linda had become friendly with a lot of the people that came and go at the West's home and this is gonna be at what's known as 25 Cromwell Street and it's believed that she was having sex with some of them and she was just having fun and kind of live in you know a young girl's crazy life but one neighbor neighbor named Mr. Wonsall or Wonsall he described Linda as quote unquote naive and he didn't feel like Linda really understood the gravity of the situation that she was putting herself in she was only 19 years old and wouldn't you know that in April of 1973 19 year old Linda would poof just vanish after she went to go visit that apartment of the West's now her parents would just tell a local police officer friend of theirs that she never returned home but she just flat out disappeared and was never seen or heard from again after leaving to go visit the West's so then we move on to and I know I'm limiting limited on details there there's a reason okay there's nothing much to tell at this moment caroland Cooper was another female and she lived at a place called the pines children home and I did look this up to kind of figure out exactly what it was and it seems to be like a group home I guess

50:09 but the kids are allowed to leave if they get their proper permission and that said she had been given permission to spend the weekend with her grandmother so during the afternoon of November 10th 1973 Carol was allowed to go see her grandmother who then let her go to the movies with some of her friends and she was last seen around 9 p.m. getting onto a bus which everyone assumes she was heading home the next day she wasn't she still wasn't home and so her grandmother reported her missing they did an extensive search but 15 year old carol was never seen or heard from again once she loaded that bus or was waiting for that bus then we have Lucy partington Lucy was 19 years old and she had left for college on December 20th of 1973 if you notice these are just months apart Lucy returned home to spend some time with her family during the Christmas break and on December 27th like most college young you know girls do she went to hang out with some of her hometown friends and around 10 p.m. just like little 15 year old carol i just mentioned she left her friend's house and she walked a short distance to where a bus stop was and her plan there was to catch a bus to go back home and as you can guess Lucy never made it back home the next day her family reported her missing again a major investigation was launched but Lucy was never traced never seen or never heard

51:45 from again 16 year old Teresa Seagand Thaler she was a high school dropout from what i've understood this to be but she wasn't a stupid girl and she did continue her education she was actually studying for diploma in what was called secretarial studies and she actually would even continue further and become a sociology student and on the weekends she was working at a store at a local shopping center and she was living again a normal life with small jobs like young girls her age would get in April of 1974 she left she left a place where she was staying for you know her room and board and she was intending to travel back home after she went for an Easter visit she never even reached her destination and she was due back to school basically after the Easter break and she never showed up there either so she was reported missing by the police and i know i'm about to sound like a broken record but an investigation was carried out for literally years they looked for her with no success she vanished and was never seen or heard from again Shirley Hubbard now she was born under the name Shirley Lloyd but she also went by the name Shirley Owen so if you go research any of this you might say oh my god you got the name wrong she well the homegirl changed her name a few times okay but in 1972 she was going by the name Shirley Hubbard

53:16 even though it wasn't her legal name and she was in high school and from what I understand she was working at what we would consider to be like an internship program and on Friday November 14th of 1974 Shirley left work at a place called Deben Hams and was heading home she never made it home she was listed as a missing person and a search was done for her i mean she was a young girl she was only 15 years old and the search turned up nothing she was never seen or heard from again so real quick Carol Cooper Lucy Partington Teresa Seagand Thaler and Shirley Hubbard all are missing all have gone to take buses all are never seen or heard from again so now we have 18 year old Juanita Mat she was going to an all-girl school which she left in 1972 and she had taken on a number of little short term jobs she was working at a real retail shop she had also worked at an attorney's office kind of like answering the phones doing secretary work but on April 11th of 1975 she left the address of the home where she was then staying and no one's quite sure where she was heading that day but she was for sure expected to return home the next day but she never did and something that kind of hurt my heart for little Juanita was that she was never reported missing to the police by anyone i guess a little solace could be achieved and that her family contacted the

54:49 missing persons bureau and they also talked to the media but she was never formally you know written out as missing formally on paper and the details of her going missing because her parents went to the media it was in articles and magazines and newspapers but she just up and disappeared whenever she left on that bus and was never seen or heard from again we have a 16 year old Allison who was a very driven young girl and she worked too at a law firm on her internship for youth who were aspiring to be lawyers and the details of you know Allison's disappearance are not well known or documented all we know is that she was reported to that missing persons bureau as well and initially though she was reported to the police as an absconder which is basically like a runaway and after she was reported as a runaway nothing ever came of it she was never seen or heard from again and i know you're like okay Kelly well wow please don't get lost in the fact that these are young girls that are going missing and there doesn't seem to be a clue as to where they're headed and it doesn't even seem to be linked that these are young teen girls going to bus stops and never being seen or heard from again that's what we in the biz would call a clue right well one of the last people i'm going to mention in this list of missing girls was actually going to be someone we know to be a victim of the west and it's even harder to comprehend because the name of this victim might lean some credence as to why but her name is Heather West

56:23 Heather was born in 1970 and she was actually the first biological child of rose and fred and she lived with her family until they moved to that cromwell street i mentioned earlier in 1972 and Heather's life seems to be a whole lot like what her her half-sister you know Ann Marie Ann Marie's life was like because when there were Ann Marie's or half-sister she was born to another mother which was fred's first wife and then fred's first wife went missing and she was raised by rose and fred now Heather was subjected to all sorts of abuse from physical to emotional to sexual and beyond just like Ann Marie was but Ann Marie left the home when she was 15 her younger sister Heather was not as lucky and she remained in that house of horrors with her parents until she went missing she was last seen on June 19th of 1987 when she was 16 years old and this is sad too she was never reported as missing to the police she just poof up and vanished and fred and rose never said anything but they wouldn't right they wouldn't have said anything because they were telling a story to people anyone that would ask that she had run away from home or that she had eloped at 16 years old I don't know where you're from when you're 16 years old we call it snatch

57:55 and a knot in your ass down here in the south my mama I don't care if I'm 30 years old if I'm acting up my mama come get me 16 year olds and you're just gonna say oh she ran away girl get out of my way because mama's coming to get you and snatch that proverbial knot in your ass take you back home all right so all of these people have gone missing and no one knows what's happened to them well a few years later as fate would have it the West children that are remaining in the home were placed into foster care for neglect and suspected abuse and this would be in the summer of 1992 now remember me earlier stating that kids who are abused aren't likely to speak up when their abusers are in charge of them not to mention that convoluted mental and emotional abuse the kids were experiencing at the hands of rose and fret right well remove them from that environment and what do you know the kids got a taste of normalcy and as time went on they started to let their guard down well when they let their guard down they started talking more and that said in the presence of their foster care parents the children would make offhand comments about the family joke they all shared about missing headers whereabouts now how could you possibly have your missing sister be funny right and worse than that is the joke itself okay the joke was that their sister was buried in the

59:28 family garden now knowing what you know now as I'm armchair quarterbacking this story this would seem rather obvious of an issue right for the kids to be saying this but that's not the case for the people who were living in the moment it didn't strike them a strange however as time went on and the kids kept saying the same thing it did kind of raise a few eyebrows and so the foster parents and the social workers began to start documenting it when the kids would say it and over the next year social workers documented the children's comments and considering their stories didn't change multiple children were saying it and the fact that the people they were talking about were missing the police believed that their comments were enough to open a legit investigation so in the summer of 1993 police began to search for Heather who was never officially reported missing by either parent and when they questioned Fred he scoffed at the idea and claimed that he had just seen Heather a few days before they launched this new inquiry about her whereabouts but unable to have Heather show up or make any actual contact with her police weren't buying it you can imagine you know you can you can continue to bleed your own lies but Carm is a bitch my friend and they weren't gonna buy these lies they weren't children they were adults right looking for this missing girl so when the new search for Heather turned up empty the police were able to obtain an and execute a search warrant on the West residents at 25 Cromwell Street the kids were still claiming the family joke

1:01:01 was that she was buried in the garden so on February of 1994 a search warrant was obtained by detective Terry Moore and detectives detective Tony James and they accompanied approximately 15 other officers to the home where they encountered Rosemary West and they advised her that they were going to be searching her rear garden in connection with the disappearance of her daughter Heather West now at that time Fred was about to leave work but he never came home rather he went directly to the police station and gave a voluntary statement the detective who took that statement was named detective Savage which is sick if I was a detective I'd want to be detective Savage but anyway he took the the the statement on the disappearance of Heather and that's whenever he had claimed oh I just saw Heather in a nearby town this is ridiculous Latida well about that same time Rosemary West was being interviewed at home and they were tape recording her interview so when Fred was done being interviewed he returned home and then they did what any parents of a missing child would do they got their dog and they went for a walk and they walked their dogs whatever the police are gonna dig in my backyard and I'm gonna go walk my dogs makes perfect sense to me you know when someone's trying so hard to act like they're not involved in something that it's ridiculous how they do behave I'd be wild and out like don't you tear up my flowers what are you doing you know the following day detectives met Fred West at his front door and they explain look we got some more questions about some of your relatives and so he lets them in and they go into a living room

1:02:35 where Rosemary is watching television and so they start asking some questions but when they ask Rose about her mother she becomes uncooperative and flat out indignant about why they're asking all these questions well Fred grabs her and says go out into the hallway we need to have a private discussion and they shut the door behind them while the officers remained in that living room and after a few seconds he returned and said can we just go to the police station so the officers walked out of the front door with Fred and got into a police car that was parked out outside of the house and it was right then that Fred astonishingly admitted yeah Heather is dead and I buried her in the garden like what you just spill the beans just like that and then he just matter of fact we explain look the police are just looking in the wrong place his dead daughter is in his backyard and they're just digging in the wrong place so detective savage arrested Fred for the murder of his daughter and Fred had such devotion to his beloved Rose that he even is reported to have told their son Stephen just before he was going off to the police and this is a quote look son look after mom and sell the house I've done something really bad I want you to go to the papers and make as much money as you possibly can so now this dude's trying to cash in on his evilness on the flip side

1:04:08 rosemary also immediately called and Marie that they had been raping and torturing and all that good stuff and told her she better shut her mouth and not say anything about her father because he had been arrested so he was taken to the police station and he was detained there and later rosemary west was arrested at home on suspicion of the murder of Heather west by detective onions which is almost comical but that's his real name so we got savage and onions handling business okay in this case so she was taken to the police station and she was interviewed by detective onions but she vehemently denied knowing anything about the murder of Heather well Fred was interviewed again and when that happened he gave some explanation about the circumstances surrounding Heather's death and then accompanied the detectives back to the house garden where they then roughly kind of indicated the area where Heather should be in the backyard so officers were digging in the rear garden and then close to the surface right around the location where Fred pointed a human bone was found so they took that bone to the police station and the pathologist there his name was professor Bernard night he confirmed yes this is a human bone and this is a femur so he went back with the police to the home and he continued to excavate the remainder of the remains which were determined later on to be that of Heather west and when the remains were excavated both femurs found were found to be present

1:05:41 so and Marie right that sister that had moved out when she was 15 do you know she found out about her father being arrested and then found out that her sister indeed had not run away but was dead and buried in the garden under the patio on her own child's birthday she was having a birthday party for her daughter when the call would come in from the police they were lighting the cake and the candles and getting ready to sing happy birthday to her child and I want to say this is a testament to how tough this girl is this girl turned woman do you know she never stopped the party for her child she found out oh my god my sister is not run away she's dead she was buried in our back yard and she hung up the phone she said she went to the bathroom she collected herself and then she walked out and continued the party like nothing had happened but then afterwards after she saved face for her child and gave the best party she could and after everyone left she said she sat down and just thought my god they called me by phone to tell me my sister was buried in my back yard that I grew up in that was a bit insensitive and I would agree with her on that I think all death notifications should be done in person if if the circumstances are available and she said she was really hurt too because her sister Heather had asked her right before her disappearance if she could come live with her

1:07:14 and she told her no but the reason she told her no was because she was afraid that if she brought her with you know brought her home with her she was afraid that Rose and Fred would show up and take her back to their house and was afraid they might really end up hurting Heather so the whole time she thought she was protecting her sister it really in reality kind of went the other way and I can imagine how much pain that must leave on your shoulders to know your sister was begging to live with you and you told her no thinking it was protective and then she ends up dead and buried in the back yard now Fred being the father of the year that he is would also tell Anne Marie later on that Rose had said she wanted to get a fish pond in the back yard like a small little coy pond you know and so Heather and Stephen the brother went out there and they dug and created the big hole for the fish pond and then they put down this blue like you know plastic liner and then Fred let Anne Marie know that Rose abruptly decided that she had changed her mind and she didn't want the fish pond anymore never mind but in reality what Heather and Stephen didn't know was that Heather had just dug her own grave he told that to Anne Marie he also mentioned that before they dumped her in that hole that they cut her sister in half and placed her in garbage cans until they decided how they were going to actually bury her what did he think he was getting gaining by telling her that I have no clue

1:08:51 and there was a neighbor named Jane Hammer and she came forward with some interesting information to add about the West household and this is some quotes that she she gave she said I got to know Fred fairly well Rose Mary was harder to get on with and very domineering very curt and she seemed like a very controlling person she definitely ruled the roost she went on to say I heard screaming in the middle of the night and stop it daddy stop it daddy it sounded like one of the younger children this was my reason for leaving I thought I might be next Fred once took me down to the cellar and showed it to me there was a little bed in there and I thought it was for children and I found out later it wasn't when I look back now I wonder why I was baby sitting sorry boom when I look back now I wonder why I was babysitting the children what were Fred and Rose Mary doing maybe they were going out to find victims oh my god y'all hindsight is 2020 imagine how creepy here in those poor kids screen stop it and all the while he's doing horrible things to them Fred was then again interviewed but this time he's retracted his admission of killing Heather but after a little bit he then retracted his retraction and admitted to the murder again so he's like Waffelon back and forth and there was an issue though see when they found Heather's femur they found a third one and no one had made mention of the fact that Heather had three legs so it couldn't have been Heather's right so there were three

1:10:23 total femurs uh oh Freddy that ain't good he was questioned about that femur found in the garden and then promptly admitted to killing and burying a person that he called Shirley Robinson and now as you can see the proverb the proverbial poop is hitting the fan my friends because I believe he admitted to killing Heather in that moment because he wanted to make it just stop after they dug up her one body and he figured okay I'll take the wrap for Heather Rose will be you know left at home and I'll be the bad guy and he'll be over with they won't keep digging but the problem was that third femur popped up and he had to explain for it so he admitted that he killed and had strangled a person that he described as a friend of Shirley Robinson this person ended up being that Allison Chambers and I want you to note that the investigation was never able to even establish a link between Allison Chambers and Shirley Robinson and we uh Fred just got his crap wrong because the truth was that Shirley disappeared in May of 78 and Allison didn't even come to that area to live until January so it couldn't have been true it's hard to keep your murders in law straight ain't it so Rose Mary West was then also arrested for the murders of Shirley Robinson and the unknown female who would turn out to be Allison Chambers so they took Fred back to the Cromwell Street address and he indicated where he had buried Shirley and Allison he was in further question about

1:11:59 Heather's murder to which he said was done without Rose Mary West's knowledge and Rose would make bail about 10 o'clock in the morning on April the 25th of 94 that same day Fred was interviewed and he explained how he killed Shirley Robinson which the details were not exactly clear on that so I don't I don't have much to add to that but we know that he did say he strangled her and that he you know killed her that professor Bernard Knight attended the house and he again started examining the remains that they found and did a forensic examination the following Wednesday which would have been March the 2nd detectives received information from a member of the public that there was a person who had gone missing named Linda go and that she had stayed with Fred and Fred flat out denied the saying I don't even know who Linda is I've never heard that name before in my life but then the next day Fred was interviewed again and he got caught up and he ended up admitting okay yeah I do no Linda but I didn't do anything to her she just moved away well on March 4th which was two days later they police brought in ground scanning equipment and that's when Fred really started sweating the pressure okay and he ended up giving in he gave a handwritten note to detective Bennett and it stated this is a quote I Frederick West authorized my attorney Howard Ogden to advise superintendant Bennett that I wish to admit to a further approximate nine killings expressly Charmaine Reena Linda

1:13:37 go and others to be identified and it was a it was signed F West and I can't say that I don't agree with that sentiment F U West he was then interviewed and admitted killing and bearing Linda go Reena and Charmaine remember his eight-year-old daughter he also gave an explanation about how Lucy Partington was killed so detectives took Fred back to the house again but this time you know word was starting to get out so they had to dress him similar to the police search team so it wouldn't draw attention to who his real identity was so they get him on the on the scene and then he started pointing out where the other bodies would be buried and then they returned him back to the police station and I want to add this in eight-year-old little Charmaine that Rose Mary killed she was lucky to have a sister like Anne Marie because when her remains were found first of all Anne Marie was absolutely devastated but she found she made sure that little Charmaine would be laid to rest with her mother's remains and she saw to it that they were put in the same coffin because she said they didn't get to be together in life and she wanted them to be together forever in the afterlife.

1:14:52 Now interesting enough Fred would actually contact Anne Marie and claim how annoyed he was that she handled the funeral because Charmaine was his child and after all no one seemed to realize that he was actually the biggest victim of anyone in this entire case he lost a daughter actually too and an ex-wife. You know Anne Marie wanted to bring the the the remains home with her because after the service she wanted to have them cremated together and bring their bring their remains home with her and Fred got really mad saying that they needed to be put in the family plot and then he said to her that when you die Anne Marie please promise me that you'll be put in the plot too and that's when she looked at him and said you know what dad I'm sorry I can't make that promise to you.

1:15:45 Can you imagine like you kill all these people and then you think you're a victim and then somehow you want to exercise your control over their remains absolutely incredible. So later the remains of a person that would be identified as that missing Teresa Seaganthaler she was found in the cellar of the home as well. Fred was then taken to another field another site away from the home and that's where he pointed out an area where his first wife Catherine Rina was buried and that same day the remains of Shirley Hubbard were found in the cellar of the West home as well. Then on March 6th the remains of Lucy Partington and Juanita Mott were found in the cellar. Now Lucy was actually in the cellar Juanita Mott her remains were found under the the staircase of the cellar.

1:16:45 They found that Teresa Seaganthaler's body was in concrete like encased in concrete and she was in front of a false fireplace in the left hand corner of the cellar and I do have some pictures of that cellar that I will post to you so you can kind of see what I'm talking about. Then on March 8th the remains of Carol Ann Cooper were found in that cellar as well and detectives concluded that the West had actually picked her up while she was hitchhiking and brought her to their home and once they got her there they attacked her they tied her up they raped her and then tortured her to death. Fred was again taken back to the home and then he pointed out where a quote unquote girl was buried.

1:17:25 Two days later the remains of Linda Goe were taken from underground and they were actually underneath what was called a bathroom area or was described as a bathroom area in the home. So they started interviewing Fred again and at this point he they started talking about Anne McFall and he explained yeah I knew Anne McFall but I didn't kill her I don't know anything about what happened to her but then on the next you know the next flip of the coin he indicated the position where he thought she might be buried but then when he realized what he had done he couldn't explain precisely how he knew this or how she met her death. Can you imagine killing so many people you can't even remember how you killed them or where they're buried in saying. So much digging was done around this house that they had to get advice from a civil engineer before they could continue digging because they were worried that the house was going to collapse around the digging and all the bodies that they were pulling out of it and when it was all said and done over 11 tons of concrete had to be brought in and and reef you know backfilled so that the house wouldn't collapse while they continued looking for more bodies. So in March of 1994 Fred was charged with the murders of Allison Chambers and when they pulled her body out they found a leather belt tied around her skull.

1:18:52 So you can imagine she was being hung by her head or whatever with that with that belt and he was also charged with Lucy Partington's death, Juanita Mott's death and Linda Goes' death. Then in April Fred was charged with the murder of Teresa Segan Thaler and when they pulled her body out there was a knotted cloth rolled to form a loop kind of next to her body it was next to her skull and so basically they started finding the tools used to kill each individual person buried with the person if that's not horrific enough and then he was also charged with Shirley Hubbard and the bones of Shirley Hubbard remember she was 15 they were discovered and her skull was encased in a mask her skull was completely wrapped in a mask of brown packing packaging tape like when you're mailing a package and then inside of that tape the tubes that were shelved up her nose and then bent up for her to breathe through were still taped to her skull. The remains of Catherine Costello were also identified in that same month and they do believe that she too was strangled but she was also dismembered and her fingers and toes had been removed. So I want to ask you something real quick have you ever had a bad week and you're like oh my god this is the worst week ever. Well they say aye because I want you to listen to the week old Rose had all right and I'm gonna give you dates I don't mean to bog you down with them

1:20:23 but I just was kind of amused by her week okay check this out. On Sunday April 24th Rose was arrested with the murder of Linda Goh and that's when she replied I'm innocent. Then on Monday April 25th she was charged with a murder of Linda Goh. On Tuesday April 26th she was charged with the murder of Carol Ann Cooper to which she replied I'm innocent. Then on Thursday the 28th she was charged with a murder of Lucy K. Partington and replied I'm innocent. On Saturday the 30th she was charged with a murder of Teresa Seagand Thaler and replied I'm innocent. Then on Wednesday may 4th she was charged with a murder of Shirley Hubbard. This time she didn't make any reply and then that same day searchers found human remains which were later found to be those of Charmaine West. She was further charged with the murders of Carol Ann Cooper and Lucy Partington.

1:21:20 What a freaking week right almost every day the week you're charged with a murder. Ugh what a waste of oxygen that woman was. Now well Freddie he likes right notes it seems because he again at this time like all these days later he again handed another note to the police and this is what it said I have not and still cannot tell you the whole truth from the very first day of this inquiry my main concern has been to protect another person or person so I guess he's trying to be all strong in mighty head of the household and protect Rose. Well he did a bad job of it because then on June 3rd Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont to which she also said I'm innocent by the way. Then on May 11th Fred was charged with the murder of Charmaine West between May 16th and May 26th Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont Shirley Robinson Allison Chambers and Heather West. Then on June 2nd 1994 Frederick West appeared in court where nine murder chargers had now been amended to joint charges with Rose Mary West.

1:22:28 Five days after that court date officers were digging in what was called the finger post field and they found more remains these remains were identified as Anne Mcfalls. Fred was charged and then Fred and Rose appeared together in court. Fred was then charged with 11 counts of murder Rose Mary was charged with nine as well as other sexual offenses. And then on Friday May 12th of 1995 Rose Mary West attended a pre-trial hearing where she formally pleaded not guilty. Now there were some changes back and forth as to Fred's legal you know his defense team so as all of this was being set into motion Fred was still sitting in jail awaiting his formal day in court that however would never happen. See I want to point out that the complexity of being a living victim of a parent the way Anne Marie was is shown in the fact that she would still actually go visit her father even after he had been arrested even after he you know all these bodies started turning up including hit her sisters her mother and one of the last time she went to visit him he asked her if she would do him a favor and she asked what it was and he said could you please stop saying things to the media and instead can you help create me an alibi?

1:23:56 Crayby an alibi for what happened and she told him no dad I'm not gonna do it I can't say that and I won't do it. So then Fred began to cry right because he's a victim and Anne Marie reached up and kind of wiped the tears from his face and said dad please don't cry and you know you didn't do this by yourself you did this with Rose which is kind of sad because it's like she's trying to justify I don't know the the man she thought he was in some weird way and he responded her and said I know but then he said you know it don't worry about it never mind I'll get out of here one way or another and that's when Fred was returned to his cell where on January 1st 1995 he was found dead in his jail cell his calls of death ruled a suicide by hanging and this makes me extremely angry not because he didn't you know do his time that's not even why mad what I feel like is that this was absolute manipulation at its finest to make his surviving daughter believe that she somehow caused his death she you know and she says I felt horrible I told him I wouldn't make an alibi I wouldn't do this and that and then he goes back and he kills himself just a final way of trying to just bring blame on herself and she's lost so much this girl's lost her sisters she's lost her mother she's lost her father she's lost the stepmother even though

1:25:28 when much of a loss in my opinion but then he's gonna say you know what since you can't make me an alibi don't worry about it I'll get out of here one way or another and then kills himself and she feels some sense of remorse for that ridiculous ridiculous for him to do that with a selfish coward you are you could even face the consequences now he wasn't one to also leave the last word to someone else right so he did leave a suicide note and was that suicide note for his beloved children who had lost their lives at his own hands or that had been victimized by him you know was it a letter of sorrow to those with whom he had killed with his wife and had tortured and raped to death and terrified of course not why would that be his suicide note his suicide note was a final love letter to his wife and then it also contained one final horrifying wish and I'm gonna read it to you so that you can know what his suicide note said verbatim his note read as follows well rose it's your birthday on November 29th 1994 and you will be 41 and still beautiful and still lovely and I love you we will always be in love the most wonderful thing in my life was when I met you our love is special to us so love keep your promises to me you know what they are where we are put together forever and ever is up to you we loved Heather both

1:27:01 of us I would love Charmaine to be with Heather and Reena you will always be Miss West all over the world that's important to me and to you I haven't got you a present but all I have is my life I will give it to you my darling when you are ready come to me I will be waiting for you get the fuck out of here man good riddance underneath the note too he was a drawing of a grave stone with the words in loving memory Fred West rose west and it said rest in peace where no shadow falls in perfect peace he waits for rose his wife okay sorry if not touched by your love letter I guess you could argue it was romantic in a way if it wasn't completely insane that he never mentioned the victims or is wrongdoing he overshadows the fact that he murdered the very people he wanted to be buried with and this you know in my opinion is because he wanted to own them he wanted them in his presence forever and to have final control so Fred's dead and Rose went on trial on October 3rd of 1995 where the jury unanimously found her guilty on 10 separate counts of murder on November 22nd 1995 she was later sentenced to life in prison without parole and Rose refused to accept her fate and she launched this whole appeal situation in 1996 and in 2000 and her claims were that there was a whole

1:28:36 bunch of new evidence that had come to light that could clear her and then she made the argument that the the huge media attention had prevented her from receiving a fair trial but in 1996 that first appeal was rejected and then she dropped them one later on that she had in 2000 and she remains incarcerated to this day how each of the victims died exactly isn't known and the only two people who do know took a lot of information to their grave and their prison cell respectively no matter the exact details the truth is that abuse and torture where the goal and death was the end result for every person that was abused by them throughout all of the death and the destruction in the West path I was proud of their daughter Anne Marie for finally standing up to her parents she refused to bow down to Fred's wants and demands and he killed himself when he was forced to face the consequences of his own actions what a coward you know he prayed on young girls and he never thought he would be held accountable for over 20 years the West went undetected in their depravity they never counted on the child they scared raped and abused staining her ground when it was all said and done she refused to make an alibi for him and she refused to hide the truth I'm proud of her for that and for Rose to think that she could get away with her despicable actions sorry honey it didn't happen and hey I wrote you a little point roses are red and violets are blue I've got five

1:30:12 fingers and the middle ones for you