March 5, 2025

Obsessed: The Susan Powell Case

Obsessed: The Susan Powell Case

This episode of Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast by Kelly Jennings explores the 2009 disappearance of Susan Powell, examining her troubled marriage to Josh, his controlling behavior, and Susan's documented fears, setting the stage for a deeper...

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Season 7

This episode of Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast by Kelly Jennings explores the 2009 disappearance of Susan Powell, examining her troubled marriage to Josh, his controlling behavior, and Susan's documented fears, setting the stage for a deeper investigation into her case that reveals another family members deep obsession.

Timestamps
03:28 Case Introduction: Susan and Josh Powell
08:11 The Powell Family Dynamics
16:43 The Night Before: Last Sightings
19:14 Josh's Confusing Call
30:44 Confronting Josh: Suspicion Grows
32:38 A Family's Desperate Search
35:10 Josh Moves to Washington
44:54 Susan's Heartbreaking Writings
52:52 Circumstantial Evidence and Frustration
53:44 The Sister's Undercover Attempt
1:02:10 Shocking Allegations from Josh's Father

Video, Sound and Editing for Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast by Kelly Jennings is provided by the podcast experts at Envision Podcast Studios in Denham Springs, LA.
Executive Producer: Jim Chapman

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended

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for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's

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kJ here and I am back for another episode of Unspeakable.

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What are you doing? How the hell are things in

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your neck of the woods? I hope they're going fantastic.

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I've had a pretty good day to day. I'm gonna lie.

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I'm recording this in the afternoon, and I found out

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today that I was Teacher of the month. Thank you,

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Beta Club. I'm having a good old time over here,

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so let that be your inspiration. Guys, it only takes

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seventeen years. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, but I've

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had a good seventeen years. But I got to be

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Teacher of the month for the first time, and I'm

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pretty excited about it. Now let's do some shout outs.

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And before I can go anywhere, I have to have

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everybody in Bush, Louisiana stop what they are doing. You

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stop right now. You stop people, if you're in traffic,

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wave them down, tell them to stop, because I have

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to tell them about Jessica Taylor. Jessica Taylor deserved a

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shout out last episode, and I jumped right into my

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episode and I did not even give a shout out

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to her. What was I thinking? Jessica let me know

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about it too. She said she had her friends listening.

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And then I did not do shout outs. I owe

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everybody an apology last episode. I guess I was excited

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and I just jumped right into it. So, Jessica MF

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and Taylor, Jessica Taylor in Bush, Louisiana, this shout out

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is for you. I am so thankful to have you

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and I'm so glad that you joined my Patreon. I

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hope that things are going super well for you. Thank

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you for supporting my show and for your kind words.

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And please accept my apology, girl, because you're my friend.

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You are my friend, and I should have done this

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sooner So, anyway, how is everybody in Bush, Louisiana, Jessica?

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Tell everybody I said, Hey, pat yourself on the back

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because you're just awesome and thank you for messaging me.

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And I can't wait to keep talking to you because

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we're friends now and we're gonna be talking on Patreon. Now,

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let's follow up with Hillsboro, Missouri. That's where Trista Odd is. Hey, Trista,

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how are things over there in Missouri? I have a

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friend that lives there. Her name's Natasha. She likes it there.

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I've never been to Missouri. I need to add that

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again to my list. I haven't been to a lot

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of places. But thank you so much, Trista. And then

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in round Lake Beach, Illinois. That sounds pretty Round Lake Beach, Illinois.

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I've got Cherie Carter. How are you, Sarie? You might

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be my cousin because I have family that's Carter's are

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you my cousin? Thank you so so much for supporting

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my show. And then, last but not least, in Jonesville,

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North Carolina, is Leslie West Hi, Leslie. I hope that

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you are having a fantastic day, and I want to

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just again, thank you so much. For supporting the show

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and making my dreams come true, because I really could

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not do this without you. I'm going to be doing

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this full time soon and I can't wait. I'm so

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excited now. The case I'm doing today, I have been

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wanting to do this one for a long time and

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I use it in my classroom lectures, and so I

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finally sat down and I started putting pen to paper

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after I got a few requests for it as well.

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So if you're one of those people that reached out

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and said, hey, will you do this one, look here

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it is. I wasn'tlying to you. I've been wanting to

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do it, and I've got a good hold on this

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case and it's mind blowing. So the reason I'm telling

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you that is it will take me two episodes to

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do this one. And it's not because I'm trying to

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lead you on. It's because there is so much shit

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in this one that it's going to take me two episodes.

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So y'all come with me to Utah. It's two thousand

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and nine and Susan and Josh Powell are a happily

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married couple who met in college, started this romance and

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then it blossomed into a lifelong commitment of marriage. Susan

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was one of four daughters to Chuck and Judy Cox,

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and they grew up in a traditional Mormon family. She

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loved animals and horseback riding. She was a girl's girl.

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She liked to get her nails done and get her

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hair done, and on occasion, as a teen, she would

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try to be rebellious, and it never really worked out.

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If we're being honest about it, she wasn't very good

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at being rebellious. She just was too good hearted. So

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she might try to be bad, but she really wasn't

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good at it. And on occasion she would step out

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of her comfort zone and she would try new things,

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but for the most part, she stayed reined in and

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was a good girl. She loved going to church. She

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was fond of going to school and had lots of

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friends there. She was well liked, and she also sang

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into sang in the choir. She tried cosmetology school after graduation,

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but it just didn't really pan out and it wasn't

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something that she continued to chase. But that's when she

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met Josh. She was eighteen years old and their meeting

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was all because of the church So this church that

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they were a part of held these social events for

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young single Mormons to come and meet one another that

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were similar and obviously of the same faith. So they

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met there. She was eighteen, Josh was in his early twenties. Now,

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I obviously am not an expert in the Mormon Church,

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so I don't want anyone coming at me, But I

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did look this up to kind of verify where I

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was going with this, and I found that the Mormon

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Church encourages marriage to other Mormons. And I don't think

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that that's strange. I think Christians like to marry Christians,

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and so on and so forth. They put on a

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lot of these events for these young singles so that

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they could find people that were of similar faith or

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the same faith, and that they could raise children and

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get married and all those good things. Josh and Susan

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were smitten with one another, and their relationship seemed to

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move pretty fast. They newly met in October, but by

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December they were engaged. Not a little too quick for

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my speed, but hey, everyone's different, and maybe they just knew,

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and they knew that they wanted to marry one another,

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so it went by super super quick. Now, Susan was

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not a huge person. She was five foot four, she

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was one hundred and thirty pounds. I would describe her

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as having she has pretty full lips. Her lips were

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very pretty, and she had these big, bright, beautiful blue eyes.

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It's probably her feature that I'm drawn to most when

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I look at her, brown, auburnish hair, just a pretty girl.

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Her weight would fluctuate back and forth like we all do,

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but it doesn't matter that this was just a beautiful,

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beautiful woman. Josh he was a little different from her.

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He was tall, and he was skinny, and if you

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look at his pictures, he's kind of got this boyish

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look to him. Even if he has facial hair, he

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still looks young. He looks boyish. Something about him doesn't

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doesn't seem to mature and very unassuming with that youthful

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face that you see. He's got chubby cheeks. His face

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is thin and and he's narrow, but those cheeks are

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just kind of chubby, and his lips powed out a

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little bit. Very confident and comfortable with with girls, although

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most people would probably describe him as dorky. So he's

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one of those people that maybe if you just saw

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a picture of him, you didn't get it. But then

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once he started talking people, you know, girls go oh,

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I get it. And if you're a woman right now,

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you probably understand what I'm saying. But the personality when

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he was young just really drew people. I guess to

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him he was ambitious but nerdy, and he reminds me

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of Ferris Bueller. You remember that Farris Bueller's day out,

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but without the swag or the charm. He just kind

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of looks like Ferris bueller Ish to me in a

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strange way. But Susan found him attractive either way. She

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thought he was cute and confidence goes a long way

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in terms of how you look. Josh definitely outkicked his

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coverage in my opinion, but kudos to him for snagging

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a pretty girl. But they got married in April of

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two thousand and one. So when they got married, it

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was a super traditional wedding. She wore a tasteful white gown,

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nothing over the top. Her hair was just in a neat,

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sweet little bob. The reception wasn't one of dancing and

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singing and all of that. It was just a room

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with tables and cake and kind of like just a reception,

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you know, sit and eat reception, very low key atmosphere,

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extremely traditional. But she looked lovely and he seemed happy,

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and they were excited to start their new life together. Now,

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Josh did go to school for business, but he seemed

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to kind of wave in an out of what he

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wanted to do with his life. Susan was the breadwinner

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in their young marriage while Josh continued to be in

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and out of work. He was trying to find his

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way professionally. Nothing out of the ordinary, just young and

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not necessarily sure which way he wanted to go in

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what direction he wanted to take to become a professional.

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So they decided to move to West Valley City, Utah,

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because they felt like there were more job opportunities in

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that area. So that's where they bought their home, and

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they really quickly started to build their family. They would

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have two baby boys who made their lives complete. Charles

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who they called Charlie. He was four at the time

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that I'm telling this story, and Brayden would be two.

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And look, not all dads are the same. And while

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Josh definitely loved his boys, he did not take to

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the role of father naturally. He seemed to be a

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little detached in his parenting style. He was proud of

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the kids. He certainly wanted to show the boys off

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to people whenever they were out and about, but it

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kind of felt like it if there wasn't a spotlight

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on it, and it wasn't him being lauded as this

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father that he just kind of fell off in involvement

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unless other people were there. He didn't change dirty diapers,

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he didn't jump to go feeding the boys. Susan was

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their main caregiver. But that was just the arrangement in

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the way things were in their household. And I'm not

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knocking it. I'm just saying that's how things came across

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to other people. So the boys, however, I'll tell you

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the boys were everything that a mom could want. These

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are the cutest little dudes. Charlie was the oldest of

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the boys. Like I told you, he had dark hair

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and dark brown eyes, and he looked just like his daddy.

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He was so precious, those big chubby cheeks and just

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a handsome dude. He loved nature and insects, and he

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was known to sneak a caterpillar or a worm into

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his pocket whenever he was going places, and when he

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was caught, he would say, okay, you got me. But

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his thing was he would bring that animal or that

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bug or whatever it was outside and he would make

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sure that that animal was safe and released into its

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natural environment before he would go about his business. He

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really cared about the animals. And he was looking forward

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to getting his first pair of glasses, which was awesome.

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He thought he was gonna look cool as just cool

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as I'll get out, because he wanted to wear those

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glasses while he wrote. Because he liked to write. He

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hoped that one day as he grew up, that he

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could write a book and someone would buy it. That

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was his jam. Now Braden, he looked a little bit different.

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He had blonde hair, but those same cute cheeks that

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I keep talking about. You want to pinch those little cheeks.

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And he was a perfect mix of his parents. The

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thing here is I want to impress upon you that

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Susan always wanted to be a mother and her little

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boys were her world. She adored them. Everything she did

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was for them, and they loved their mommy and they

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loved their daddy with everything that they had. Now, Susan's

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day started like a lot of hours. She got up

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early and she would arrive for work around seven am

226
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.279
or so, and the boys would go to daycare. So

227
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.879
Debbie called Well, that's her name. She was the caregiver

228
00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:17.960
of the two boys daily and she would talk about

229
00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.799
how Susan and the boys were always very prompt about

230
00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.120
making it on time to daycare. Susan was on time,

231
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.159
she was punctual, and she was very structured person. So

232
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.360
if the boys were sick or they weren't going to

233
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:35.039
be a daycare for whatever reason that day. She also

234
00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.600
Susan was very good at calling in and saying, hey,

235
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.399
we're not going to be there and just giving a

236
00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.399
heads up to Debbie so that she would know what

237
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.200
to expect. So on Monday, this is going to be

238
00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.279
a Monday. In December of two thousand and nine, the

239
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:51.960
boys were a no call, no show, and that just

240
00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.720
was not standard. That wasn't the way that Susan operated.

241
00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.759
So Debbie immediately thought, this is kind of strange. So

242
00:12:57.799 --> 00:12:59.720
she picked up the phone and she tried to call

243
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.600
both Susan and Josh, but there was no answer from

244
00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:05.320
either of the phones. That's not I guess the hugest

245
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.919
thing in the world. People get sick or oversleep or whatever.

246
00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.960
But the good news is that Susan and Debbie they

247
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:14.720
were kind of close with each other, and the daycare

248
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.080
where the boys went to was really nearby the house.

249
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.720
So she just jumped in the van and she drove

250
00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.240
to go check on Susan and the boys. And she

251
00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:26.039
noticed that when she pulled into the driveway there was

252
00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.759
no tire marks in the driveway. And you're probably like,

253
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:30.559
what do you mean there's no tire marks. Well, there

254
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.000
was snow. There was fresh snow on the ground, and

255
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.200
so she would have expected to see the tracks in

256
00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.679
the snow if someone had come or gone from the house,

257
00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:39.720
but it was just a blanket of snow in the

258
00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.200
driveway and no car had obviously driven up and down

259
00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.240
the driveway in any recent time. So she got out

260
00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.159
of the car. She went, She knocked on the door

261
00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:51.320
and there was no answer. She knocks again. Nobody. She

262
00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.360
didn't hear any sound, no movement, no nothing. So she

263
00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.679
did call the emergency contact for the boys that she

264
00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.639
had on file, and that was Josh's sister her she

265
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:02.360
had well, the sister and the mother, they were both

266
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:06.320
in emergency contact, so they all in discussion came to

267
00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:12.679
the conclusion that none of them had really spoken to

268
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.879
Susan that morning and didn't really have any cummings or

269
00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.519
goings or anything or any contact with them, and that

270
00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.720
none of them were able to contact them or getting

271
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.960
touched through the phone. So they all kind of went, Oh,

272
00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.799
my god, what if it was carbon monoxide? What if

273
00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.559
they're all still in the house and nobody's answering because

274
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:38.159
something got the whole family. So they call the policegency.

275
00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:37.799
My son and his wife and that you kill they're

276
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.519
not responding to calls, so they're not responding to people

277
00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.759
panning on their door, and there's no trucks coming out.

278
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:43.360
Of their driveway.

279
00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.679
I'm worried that maybe gas left sun or something like that.

280
00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:49.960
So the police get there, they look around. They obviously

281
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.240
don't see any any foul play either. There doesn't look

282
00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.759
to be any disturbances at the house. So the police

283
00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.279
make an offer to the family. They're like, look, if

284
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.759
you're okay with us breaking this window, will break it,

285
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.000
but we're not responsible for paying for it. If you

286
00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.000
want us to go in and check, and the family's like, hell, yeah,

287
00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:07.279
do what you gotta do. We need to make sure

288
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.919
that they're okay, So they break this big window. I

289
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:12.679
have pictures of all this too, I'll put on Patreon.

290
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.000
But they break the big entry window right there on

291
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.720
the porch, and then they go inside. Well, the family

292
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.679
wasn't there, but there was something that seemed odd. There

293
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.039
were box fans, and there were several big box fans

294
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.240
all around the living room area, kind of just sitting

295
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:34.440
on the carpet, and Josh's sister looks around and says, no,

296
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:37.159
these aren't normally here. I don't know, I don't know

297
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.240
what that's about. And their blue mini van wasn't there either.

298
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.279
The garage was empty when they went and they checked,

299
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.840
so the car had obviously left, but it hadn't left

300
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:47.960
any time recent because there was no tracks in the

301
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.159
in the in the driveway. Susan's purse was still there,

302
00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:54.360
her keys, everything that she would need was still there

303
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.120
in the house, her wallet, her id, I mean, all

304
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.159
of the things that you would certainly take with you

305
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.720
if you were going somewhere. We're still in the house.

306
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.759
The house, by the way, wasn't immaculate. You could tell

307
00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.679
people live there, but it wasn't like a disgusting mess.

308
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.279
It was just a lived in house. There were toys,

309
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.840
you know about the rooms very typical. The beds weren't made,

310
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.080
the children's beds had no sheets on them, and other

311
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.679
than that, overall, it was an orderly home with no

312
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.720
obvious disturbance or anything. The family was missing. The whole

313
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.320
family was missing, and nobody had any clue where they were.

314
00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.399
So words started getting around and Susan's friends and family,

315
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.679
as well as Josh's were beyond concerned. Well, Susan's best friend,

316
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.240
her name was Jovanna. She went to church with Susan.

317
00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.120
She comes forward and says, well, look, I had dinner

318
00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.960
with both Josh and Susan and the boys the night

319
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.559
before they apparently went missing. This would have been Sunday,

320
00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.679
December sixth of two thousand and nine, so wondering kind

321
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.279
of how what all went on during dinner. Jo i'na

322
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.799
kind of describe the fact that Susan and her both

323
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.279
liked to crochet. That was something that they were into

324
00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.400
and kind of interesting. Jovanna is older than Susan. When

325
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.319
I was looking at some interviews, I mean, she's she

326
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.599
seemed to be twenty thirty years older than Susan. But

327
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.599
it was just kind of cute. They liked to crochet together,

328
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.799
but they were working on a blanket and they were

329
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.440
just chit chatting and sit on the couch when Josh

330
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.319
came in and he offered to make dinner for everyone

331
00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.480
and he said, look, I'm making pancakes. Would y'all like

332
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.440
me to make y'all some pancakes? And pleasantly surprised, Susan

333
00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:32.960
kind of perked up and was like, Okay, yeah, that'd

334
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.680
be awesome because Josh normally did not cook and it

335
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.440
wasn't a normal gesture for him to offer to cook.

336
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.599
But how cute. She has a friend over and he says,

337
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.480
I'm going to take care of it. So he made

338
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.440
everybody a plate. All the plates were made separately, and

339
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.039
the ladies ate in the living room while Josh and

340
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.000
the boys sat and ate at the kitchen table.

341
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:51.720
Well.

342
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:55.480
Later on, after dinner, Susan started to feel bad, like

343
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:57.720
bad enough that she said, I'm sorry, Javannah, you know

344
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:00.599
I'm not well. I think we need to wrap it

345
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.079
up for the night. So Jovannah left so Susan could rest,

346
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.720
and Josh said, well, while you rest, i'm gonna go

347
00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.400
take the boys and we're gonna go out sledding for

348
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.720
a little while. So Jovanna and Josh walked out together

349
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.039
with the boys and they all left about five pm.

350
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.599
That was the last anyone had seen of anybody in

351
00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:24.240
this family. But then literally out of nowhere, all of

352
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:29.720
a sudden, Josh's sister's cell phone rings and it's Josh

353
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.960
Alive right there, calling a sister and he's just having

354
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.880
this conversation with her, and she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

355
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.240
where have y'all been? You've been missing for like twenty

356
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.960
four hours. We haven't been able to get in touch

357
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.720
with anybody. Well, she was relieved, you know that he

358
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.599
that he called her, But she's kind of like, hey,

359
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:50.039
where are the kids? Where Susan are y'all? Okay? Did

360
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.480
you break down? What happened? And she's throwing out all

361
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.240
these questions at him, and Josh comes across as rather

362
00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.119
confused and says, what do you mean, what do you mean?

363
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:00.799
Where are we? The caking kids are with me. We're

364
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.240
on our way home from our camping trip. And she's

365
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.039
the sister questions, Okay, well where is Susan And he's like,

366
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.079
I don't know. She was at home. He said she

367
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.200
went to go laid under rest. She wasn't feel good

368
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.720
after we had dinner a day ago, and so I

369
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.920
decided to take the boys and we were going to

370
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:19.640
go sledding. And I took them out and we went

371
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:24.960
and did a little camping trip together. Well, this obviously

372
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.559
started to panic them because they both now realize that

373
00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:31.960
Susan wasn't home. And so Josh became so panicked by

374
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.240
this that he and the boys rushed home. They jumped

375
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.119
in the car and they started rushing home. But he

376
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:39.880
did go to a place called Point of the Mountain

377
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.759
and he placed a phone call to Susan from that

378
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.200
point where he had good service, and he left her

379
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:45.920
a voicemail.

380
00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.519
I thought, we are on our way back, and.

381
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.960
I can't believe that sometime my brain missed the day.

382
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.799
I talked today with Sunday. So that was really really stupid. Right,

383
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.480
I'll talk to La.

384
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:01.279
So we've all been listen to these stories long enough

385
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.119
to know that when you said my brain missed a day,

386
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.200
that was really stupid. It kind of sounded strange. That's

387
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.240
kind of odd. How does your brain miss a day?

388
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:13.000
But whatever, a little over an hour later, Josh made

389
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.599
it back home and there he met with the police

390
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.200
and they were like, we need to talk to you.

391
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:18.720
We've got to figure out what's going on here, and

392
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.440
he said, no problem, and he went down to the

393
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.079
substation to answer questions with the police. But he insisted

394
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.160
on bringing his boys with him rather than letting someone

395
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.720
else watch the boys. And so while this question and

396
00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.039
answer is going on, he would absolutely answer the questions

397
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:35.440
when the police would pose them, but nothing that he

398
00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.720
said was of great certainty. It was almost kind of

399
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.519
evasive and very like, you know what y'all do. Oh,

400
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.960
we went out camping and that was about it. Okay,

401
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.480
well where did you go. Oh we set up a campsite. Okay,

402
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.759
where was your campsite?

403
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:49.119
Oh?

404
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.240
It was by these trees, by a Just nothing seemed

405
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.839
to be of great certainty. And while the police were

406
00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.000
trying to kind of hone him in and get more

407
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.160
direct answers, it always really seemed to be a distraction

408
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.720
for Josh during the interview. And so they would want

409
00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:07.240
a drink, or they would be hungry or want a

410
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.720
snack and doing what kids do, but Josh would constantly

411
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.200
stop to fix that or help them, and it didn't

412
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.319
seem like he was really focusing in on the questions

413
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.519
from the police. But what the police did find was

414
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.799
that he had driven down a place. It was called

415
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.480
the Pony Express. He had driven down the Pony Express

416
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:25.839
and he said that he went about twenty miles to

417
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.799
a place called Simpson Springs and he said, that's where

418
00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:31.200
we set up camp, he said, They said, tell us

419
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.119
specifically what you did there. He so, I set up

420
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.960
a heater. I lit a fire for the camp. Once

421
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.480
I got everything unloaded. It was a good fire, and

422
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:41.839
so we sat down. We had some moars, Me and

423
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.839
the boys cooked those by the fire. We had fun,

424
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.720
and then we just snuggled in for the night after

425
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.960
we had our dessert. So if that was the case,

426
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.440
then obviously there should be supplies in the car, right,

427
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.720
That's what we would all go to check. So the

428
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.920
police asked him, Hey, can we go look at your van?

429
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.880
Josh readily said sure, no problem, And so they go

430
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.440
out there, and first I'll tell you, these people are

431
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.000
just like us. Susan and Josh are just like us.

432
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.519
The interior of their van is exactly what you would expect.

433
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.319
The interior has crumbs from snacks and trash from the

434
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.319
kids thrown on the ground, and you can just tell

435
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:20.759
that it's a well loved, well lived in vehicle. There's

436
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.720
a car seat in there. It's gray with these black

437
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:27.519
and blue straps on it or stripes on it. And

438
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.519
when they got to the back and they searched the back,

439
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.000
sure enough there was all the camping gear, just like

440
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.279
Josh had said. There also, to be specific, was the

441
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.880
some Moor's supplies that was opened and used. There were tarps,

442
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.599
there was a shovel. They searched all the interior of

443
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.440
the vehicle. They found in the center console just some

444
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.799
coins and things like that. They did also find a

445
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.279
cell phone there which was identified as Susan's, but it

446
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.880
wasn't quite clear if this was her current cell phone

447
00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:59.279
or if this was an old one that she didn't

448
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:02.079
use anymore. So they did log that into evidence. But

449
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.960
everything in the vehicle went along with what Josh had

450
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.400
claimed had happened. So it was now December ninth, and

451
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.920
the police started searching the Powell residence for any clues

452
00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:15.880
that my could lead them in a direction at least

453
00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:20.000
to investigate for Susan's whereabouts. But when I tell you nothing,

454
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:24.759
I'm telling you zero zilch nada, there was literally nothing

455
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.079
to even send them in a direction to go check

456
00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.839
where Susan might be. The next day, December the tenth,

457
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.799
the police decided to drive out and they wanted to

458
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.519
search that area where Josh had said that he was camping. Now,

459
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:41.680
in their notes, I will tell you they were unable

460
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:46.799
to locate the specific site of the camp site, but

461
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.519
they did drive out there to where Josh said in

462
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.720
the general area that he had camped. So some more

463
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.079
days went by, no one has heard from Susan specifically,

464
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.759
five days went by and the police were literally no

465
00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:02.400
closer checking things out. They were doing everything that they could,

466
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:06.519
but nothing. And Josh did agree that he would come

467
00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:10.079
in an interview with them again, but he also decided

468
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.079
to retain an attorney at this point. I know a

469
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.640
lot of people right there would go, well, why do

470
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.039
you need an attorney. I'm gonna tell you something right now,

471
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:20.799
if you think for some for an instant that you're

472
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.519
a suspect in something that might be big, I don't

473
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.319
blame him for retaining an attorney. That seems like a

474
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.240
very reasonable thing for me, especially in today's times, whenever

475
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.599
you're uncertain about maybe what's going on, it does look weird,

476
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.839
but I don't blame him for retaining an attorney. After

477
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.799
he retained the attorney. This is where my nose kind

478
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.400
of squnched up. He had agreed to do the interview

479
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.240
after he retained the attorney, though he was a no call,

480
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.920
no show for that follow up interview. This could have

481
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.000
been on the advice of his attorney, but I personally

482
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:59.200
doubt it. Maybe wanting your attorney present would be advised,

483
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.559
but I don't know a defense attorney alive. That would

484
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:04.119
just be like, no call, no show, no nothing, because

485
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.599
that certainly doesn't look good. The West Valley City Police

486
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.880
were frustrated by this, and they decided at this point

487
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:13.480
that they were going to just switch and go on

488
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.519
the offensive, and so they started to. They just announced

489
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:18.160
it out to the public because it had been days

490
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.880
and they're like, look, Josh Powell has now failed to

491
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.000
show up for an interview that we had scheduled, and

492
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.359
because of that, we kind of feel like this might

493
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.799
be a development. And they put that out there in

494
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:31.759
the news, I think, to kind of stoke the flames

495
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:35.400
there and see what Josh would do. But it didn't

496
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.759
really drum up exactly what they thought it would so

497
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.799
changing tactics. The police decided to see what the kids

498
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.039
may could tell them, and so they set up what's

499
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.440
called a forensic interview now a forensic interview if you're

500
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.240
not familiar. This is an intricate, specialized process, which is great.

501
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.799
I'm a fan of these forensic interviews. I think they're incredible,

502
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:01.200
and the conversations that are set up because it's a

503
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:05.519
child that you are interviewing, they are structured with a purpose,

504
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.599
and they are conducted by a specially trained professional to

505
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.759
do this. So it's not just your random detective that

506
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.359
just comes in and says, all right, well, let me

507
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.000
just talk to this four year old or this six

508
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.480
year old or this seven year old. They really decided

509
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:22.279
a long time ago that there needed to be a

510
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.920
process to this because they're children. The ultimate goal here

511
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:30.480
is to gather reliable information, number one, and because you're

512
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.759
speaking to a child, sometimes that can be iffy. So

513
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.799
the second thing is that it's set up not only

514
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:42.960
to protect the kids from receiving leading questions like oh,

515
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.559
did your mom hurt your dad? That'd be way more

516
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.640
to leading in that instance. It's set up more in

517
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:54.960
a comfortable atmosphere so it doesn't scare the kids. And

518
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.000
so the goal is to minimize trauma and to use

519
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:04.279
developmentally appropriate questioning in the techniques to keep the child

520
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.880
comfortable and to keep them talking. So what is the

521
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:08.759
typical setup? Like I wanted to tell you a little

522
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.000
bit about it if you've never seen something like this.

523
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:16.200
The room is designed to look like a comfy living room.

524
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.200
It is the polar opposite of an interrogation room that

525
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.400
an adult might be put in that's very cold, and

526
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.160
you know, a chair and a table and that's it. No,

527
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.119
this is like you're in your mama's living room and

528
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:31.680
there's couches, stuffed animals, a lamp on the table. They

529
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:34.319
have papers and colors for the kid to drop be

530
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.400
downd color if they want to. There's a rug, there's blankets,

531
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:43.480
very cozy, very comfy. And because children could be possibly

532
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:49.400
influenced or kind of concerned about the reactions of people

533
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.599
they love or that are in control of them, because

534
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.039
they might be concerned about that, the worry here is

535
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.240
that it would affect a child's response during the interview.

536
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:02.920
So in order to avoid this, usually only the interviewer

537
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:06.559
and the child are present in the interview. The interview room,

538
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.880
no parent or guardian would be in there for this

539
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.319
now before if that makes you kind of jump back,

540
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.599
the interview is filmed and recorded the entire time, so

541
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.680
there are no secrets while the child is in the

542
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.480
room with the interviewer, and the interviewer also may be

543
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.000
working with a team of investigators which are in another room,

544
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:29.119
and the interviewer with the child would wear an earpiece

545
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.359
and the investigator can ask questions that to the interviewer

546
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.279
that that interviewer can then mold to be appropriate for

547
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:39.400
the child that they're gonna question about that information. And

548
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.000
if you're interested in this more, I do want to

549
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:42.880
tell you I'm putting a link in the show notes

550
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:45.559
so you can see everything that's involved because I'm being

551
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.000
kind of brief in the overview and I have a

552
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:50.079
lot of college students that reach out to me and say, hey,

553
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:51.680
I'm writing a paper on this, or hey, can you

554
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:53.440
help me with that. Go look in the show notes,

555
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.119
look at that link. It's a good document for you

556
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:57.200
to go. Learn a whole lot about how this is done.

557
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.119
So when they set this up, Charlie would talk. He

558
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.559
was a talkative little boy. Brayden not so much. He

559
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.440
didn't have much to say, but Charlie said a few things,

560
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.240
just a few that were just curious. It really did

561
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:13.599
make you kind of go, hmm, what do you mean

562
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.799
by that? What were you camping with? My dad, my

563
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:24.559
mom and my Nami Dragger? But he clearly says that

564
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.480
his mama was there and he was camping with mama

565
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:31.799
and dad and brother. You heard him, He's very clear

566
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:37.119
about that. But was maybe he mistaken mom was in

567
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.039
the van according to him. But y'all, he's just four

568
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:44.359
years old. He's just a little fella. So some things

569
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.240
he says, while that seems very clear, some other things

570
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.359
that he says don't make sense throughout the interview, Like

571
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.359
at one point he said that you saw an airplane

572
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.279
park while they were camping. Well, obviously that didn't happen.

573
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.960
And so looking further into this whole type of interview,

574
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.279
you'll realize that kids tend to confuse times and reality

575
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:08.720
when they're little and they're doing they're telling a story

576
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:13.400
of what happened. They may combine experiences or say things

577
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.519
that they did that actually they may have just watched

578
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.720
on TV. And so it's really hard to decipher and

579
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.759
you would need a professional to kind of give their

580
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.640
opinion on what they meant. But he also said something

581
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:29.000
along the lines of his mom stayed at the park

582
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:34.000
with the crystals, so that was kind of eyebrow raising

583
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.680
the crystals. Did he mean snow did he mean icicles?

584
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:40.920
Did he mean snowflakes? The police were never really able

585
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:44.480
to narrow down or clarify what he meant by that,

586
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.440
so the police decided to confront Josh with what the

587
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.960
kids had said about Susan going camping with them, and

588
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.200
when they did, Josh was immediately offended. He was over

589
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.440
the top offended that they would even imply that, and

590
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.839
he ended the interrogation. He didn't want to talk because

591
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:05.839
he was so just hurt by the fact that they

592
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.720
would imply that he had brought his wife and lied

593
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.559
about it. And I know, I know that it can

594
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.480
seem offensive for a spouse to hear harsh questions and

595
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.920
quite frankly pointed ones when their spouse is missing, But

596
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.240
this is an unfortunate reality that has to be done

597
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.759
when you're trying to figure out a missing person. And

598
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.519
we all know that we look at spouses first. Come on,

599
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:34.039
So when Josh leaves from that interview, he basically disappears

600
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.839
for the next eighteen hours. The police are unable to

601
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:43.319
find him during this time, so they had put a tracker,

602
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:48.200
unbeknownst to Josh, on his van because they were thinking, okay,

603
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.079
when he gets in the van. A lot of times

604
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:52.000
if someone did something to somebody, they go back to

605
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.039
the site to make sure it's not disturbed something along

606
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:58.599
those lines. Well, here comes Josh with his strange way

607
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.839
of going about things. Because the van never moved, So

608
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.160
the police are like, whoa, why is the tracker broken?

609
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.839
What happened? Well, guess what. The van was still parked

610
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:13.359
because Josh went and rented a Ford Focus. Now it

611
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.359
took the police some time to figure this out, but

612
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.359
they did so. Whenever he returned the rental, the police

613
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.039
were right there, swooped on in and they wanted to

614
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.359
go see where he went, and they found that he

615
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:28.039
traveled a distance of eight hundred and seven miles on

616
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:31.759
the car. That's a lot of miles. But because there

617
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:35.160
was no tracker on this car, no GPS or anything

618
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.079
like that, the police were never able to figure out

619
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:43.079
where he had gone. But again, weird as hell. So

620
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:45.920
Susan's family and friends had been out this entire time.

621
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.319
They were placing flyers. They were trying to get the

622
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.400
word out to anybody that would listen. Their thoughts were,

623
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.759
if she stranded, or if she's somewhere she doesn't want

624
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.200
to be, let's at least plaster everywhere we can with

625
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.240
her face so people would recognize her. News the local

626
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.359
news channels, they updated the status of her missing person

627
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:09.240
case almost nightly. Locally. Everybody knew that Susan was missing.

628
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.079
The progress was just slow. There was not much to

629
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:17.759
go to go on at this point. But December the sixteenth,

630
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.839
police were really in the mood to designate Josh as

631
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.279
their only person of interest. They weren't yet willing to

632
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:28.119
say he was a suspect, but they really were on

633
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.920
the edge here of saying, you're pretty much who we

634
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:35.119
have to focus on right now. So Chuck Cox, that

635
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.440
was Susan's daddy, Chuck Cox, told the media on December

636
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.400
the seventeenth that he was saddened but not surprised that

637
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:47.039
Josh was named a person of interest in his daughter's disappearance.

638
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:51.720
So he felt like Josh wasn't saying enough, and that's

639
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.240
his baby girl, So it wasn't really a shock to

640
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:56.480
him because he felt like Josh should have been doing more.

641
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.960
On December the twentieth, just a few days later, vigils

642
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:03.720
were set up and organized and they were being held

643
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.359
in Susan's name. Her friends and some of her family

644
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.880
had organized these vigils topped off with purple ribbons for

645
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.199
people to wear to remember her and to try to

646
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.320
remember to look for her and help us. But as

647
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.239
the days passed, y'all know, this hope is really starting

648
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:24.360
to fade as the days go on. Reporters were there

649
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:28.320
at the vigil, though. Reporters with cameras were at the vigil,

650
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:33.960
and when they started filming, Josh got upset and he left.

651
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.000
And his whole argument was that he didn't want the

652
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.480
attention on him and the kids. He didn't want his

653
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.559
kids exposed to all this media attention. And again I

654
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.639
can understand that he would though speak to them briefly

655
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:48.920
at one point, but he really didn't have much to

656
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.199
say to the cameras other than just sadness as he

657
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:52.800
spoke to them.

658
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:54.440
I've been trying to figure out.

659
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:58.079
What I can do so I don't sit idle.

660
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.679
I'm dealing with this repeatedly.

661
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:05.199
So after talking to the media and showing up at

662
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:09.519
the vigil, more days would go by and Susan again

663
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.119
nothing heard or seen from. That's when Josh decided that

664
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.639
he was going to move away from Utah altogether. So

665
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:25.239
January eighth, josh Is officially moved from Utah to puallup Washington.

666
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:27.760
And why did he go there? Well, I wanted to

667
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:29.679
know a little bit about that, so I'm gonna tell you.

668
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:32.159
This is where he and Susan had both grown up,

669
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:36.159
and he obviously took the kids with him whenever he

670
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:38.599
went there. And I want you to remember, Susan had

671
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.400
been the breadwinner in their marriage. So I'm assuming that

672
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.039
the reason that he moved there was a financial decision

673
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:48.199
rather than just a distance one. He moved into a

674
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:52.159
house with his own dad whenever he moved, so once

675
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:56.719
he moves in with his dad, his dad started talking

676
00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:02.000
more about Susan publicly, but so did Josh. I don't

677
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.000
know if the comfort of having a parent around made

678
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.280
him want to talk more or what, but he started

679
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:10.199
to open up, and this included that he was saying

680
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.800
Susan was struggling with mental illness and he thought that

681
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:17.719
maybe that was why she had left. There was also

682
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:21.960
another man that Josh mentioned, and this man's name was

683
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:26.639
Stephen Kosher from Saint George, Utah, who disappeared right at

684
00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:29.840
the same time that Susan did, and Josh felt like

685
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.000
maybe she had run off with him after a romantic rendezvous.

686
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:36.760
So a little bit about this Stephen guy. Stephen was

687
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:38.840
active in his church and he was active in his

688
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:41.679
home life in Saint George. He had been gone though,

689
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.719
for a few days, and that was when the hoa

690
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:51.519
of the Anthem neighborhood in Henderson, Nevada, contacted his parents

691
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:55.800
about an abandoned car that they had found. They identified

692
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.920
it as his car, and they said that it was

693
00:36:57.960 --> 00:36:59.519
parked at the end of a cul de sac in

694
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.679
their neighbors. It was about that time because this was

695
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:05.760
not near where he lived or his parents. His parents said,

696
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:07.119
oh my god, you know, we haven't talked to him

697
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.559
in days. Where could he be? And so they reported

698
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:13.039
him missing. No one knew why he would have been

699
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.079
in Vegas. First of all, because he had gone through Vegas.

700
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.920
They did know that he was looking for a new job.

701
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.639
But police also were able to verify not only had

702
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:24.559
he gone through Vegas, but that he had stopped to

703
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:27.119
eat lunch with his ex girlfriend's parents at one point,

704
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:32.599
and then that's whenever he ultimately parked the car. So

705
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:38.559
police investigated this vehicle, and they went around to the

706
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.719
houses nearby and they looked at all the home security

707
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.679
cameras and that's where they determined that he himself had

708
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.239
been the one that parked the car. There he got out,

709
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:50.440
he turned back shortly thereafter to go get something out

710
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:52.280
of the car, you couldn't really tell what it was,

711
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.559
and then he walked away out of frame, never to

712
00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:59.480
be seen or heard from again. Like to this day, y'all,

713
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:03.599
he is never been heard or seen since this happened.

714
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.320
There was some activity on his cell phone over the

715
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:11.599
next seventy two hours, but then nothing, it stops ever again,

716
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.440
nothing ever again, has ever been heard about him or seen.

717
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.440
So Josh opened up to the Salt Lake Tribune and

718
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.159
he explained a little bit more about Susan's mental state

719
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.599
at that time, and he explained that she had felt

720
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:28.920
immense pressure from her family because they had expectations of

721
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.239
perfection from her, and that it had been that way

722
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.360
for a long long time. So he also attempting to

723
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:39.039
be proactive, Josh and his dad, who by the way,

724
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.480
was also named Stephen, they set up a website that

725
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:47.400
was aimed to help find Susan, and it went in depth,

726
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:52.559
like really really deep about these discussions of why they

727
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:56.000
felt that there was a connection between Susan's disappearance and

728
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:59.840
Stephen Kosher's disappearance. Now, this website was Susan Powell dot

729
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.880
and I want to caution you real quick, if you're curious,

730
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.159
please do not go to that website, because I did

731
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.159
and someone has taken it over and you will get

732
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.880
a virus. So don't go to that website. I learned

733
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:12.280
that one the hard way, but I was able to

734
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.320
do some sleuthing and I did find the actual website

735
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.400
where it was archived, and I've got that from my

736
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:19.960
people on Patreon. I'll post it so y'all can go

737
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.880
see it, but I'm warning you, please don't do that

738
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:25.000
on your computer. You're gonna mess it up. So the

739
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:30.239
actual website is covered in photos of Susan smiling, and

740
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.079
it even has photos that of what looks to be

741
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:36.880
it's a heart with an arrow through it, and it's

742
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.159
got Susan's signature underneath it. And it looks like they

743
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:41.239
took a picture from a card maybe that she signed

744
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.960
or something, and it's got that posted on there. But

745
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.159
the website and I went through it and I read

746
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.800
all of it. The website goes on and on about

747
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:53.719
the family of Susan and how their followers have been

748
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.920
less than kind to Josh. So when I'm saying Susan's family,

749
00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.519
I mean her parents and her siblings and her friends.

750
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:05.119
The whole website was set up to supposedly help find Susan,

751
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:09.880
but really it just seems like it's this this expose

752
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:12.840
written by It always says we feel like so I'm

753
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.239
guessing Josh and his dad, But it really is more

754
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.039
like knocks at Susan's family for being mean to Josh

755
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.880
more than it is finding Susan. And then there's a

756
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:29.519
tab that explains the similarities between Susan and Steven, So

757
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.360
both of them disappeared to the same week December of

758
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:37.760
two thousand and nine. They both share important beliefs, as

759
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.480
it said, quote unquote, and the same personality traits, including

760
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.880
their faith in the Mormon religion. And then it said

761
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:48.920
that Susan really enjoyed her colleagues and that she enjoyed

762
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:54.159
her financial independence. I was not quite sure what that

763
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:57.760
was supposed to prove to me. Between Susan and Stephen,

764
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.679
I wasn't quite I didn't really that didn't tell me

765
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.960
much about her and Steven maybe possibly knowing one another.

766
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:09.480
And then in a strange thing here there's a comparison

767
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.039
of both of their work histories. And the thing is,

768
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.159
again I went through it, and the comparison it shows

769
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.719
doesn't amount to much of anything. I'm not sure what

770
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.519
was trying to be proven, but it fell really short.

771
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.400
In whatever it was, it basically lists how Susan was

772
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:28.280
a call center rep for Fidelity Investments and then became

773
00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:31.400
a stay at home mom before she was rehired, and

774
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.760
then she became a stay at home mom again, and

775
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:35.920
then she went back to work for to be a

776
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:39.519
call rep for Wells Fargo. And then it lists how

777
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.119
Steven's work history was that he worked as an intern

778
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.440
for the Utah Governor's office, and then he went and

779
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.519
he worked for the Salt Lake Tribune Online before he

780
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.159
moved to Salt Lake City working as a sales rep

781
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.519
for a company, and then he disappears. So whatever the

782
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:57.119
quote unquote link was between all of that. I guess

783
00:41:57.159 --> 00:41:59.239
I'm dense because I couldn't tell what he was trying

784
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:00.000
to tell me.

785
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:00.360
There.

786
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:04.679
The personality link was another tab that you could click,

787
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:10.480
and it claimed that there were so many similarities between them,

788
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:13.480
this is probably why they ran off together. Things like

789
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:15.760
they were around the same age, that they both liked

790
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.199
to be outdoorsy, they both liked music. Well, shit, that's

791
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.199
everybody I know. We go outside, we listen to music.

792
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:26.199
It didn't really ring as this definitive proof of anything.

793
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:29.880
But it then says that they both suffered emotional problems,

794
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:35.559
specifically according to sources close to Stephen Kosher. Again, this

795
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.280
is written on the website. I'm not saying people that

796
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.719
know Stephen said this. I'm saying the website says this.

797
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.199
He was taking medications for a social disorder. Kosher was

798
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:48.440
apparently also angry with his father when he left in

799
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:51.320
December of two thousand and nine. Then there's a column

800
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:54.199
for Susan Powell that says that she's always struggled with

801
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:57.559
emotional issues and anger management problems, and then it gets specific,

802
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.920
saying this is documented as early as November seventeenth, nineteen

803
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.440
ninety two, when she was eleven years old because as

804
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:10.599
a child, Susan went to a psychologist because her mom, Judy,

805
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.239
wanted her to go. And then there's this sentence that says,

806
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:15.480
we love Susan and we know she does the best

807
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:17.760
she can after what she's been through with her parents.

808
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.320
So again it kind of seems like a backhanded statement

809
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:26.559
and it's it kind of attacks the Cox family there. Interestingly,

810
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:30.199
it also outlines how Stephen was single, but that there

811
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:33.719
was also a secret double life for Susan, which her

812
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:39.159
own father supposedly confirmed. The website claims that Susan had

813
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:42.079
a secret plan to divorce her husband on their next

814
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.440
wedding anniversary, so it kind of gave a date. So

815
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:49.000
according to friends and family. I will tell you that

816
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.480
the website I don't believe actually spoke to any friends

817
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:56.199
or family. It's just like he's saying this and writing

818
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:59.239
it because he said, according to friends and family, Susan

819
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:02.800
was being pressed to divorce her husband because Josh Powell

820
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:07.280
was a quote unquote lukewarm Mormon. It then adds that

821
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.280
the writer of the website believes Susan set this date

822
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.280
in order to put off the family and friends because

823
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.840
they were pressuring her to divorce her husband because she

824
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:18.880
wanted to try to be happy in spite of the

825
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:23.639
monumental pressure that she was feeling with in herself and others.

826
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:25.719
But the main thing again that you notice if you

827
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:27.599
look at this web page, which again I'm going to

828
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:29.880
post for you, is that it seems like Josh wrote

829
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.760
every single word in it, and it panders to his

830
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:37.320
own victimization and everything. It never really addresses the issue

831
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:39.599
of the missing wife and that the mother of your

832
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:42.079
children has not been seen or heard from in a

833
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:47.119
long time. Something else, though, that had been happening was

834
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:51.639
that someone else had been doing some writing, and the

835
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:54.559
words in these letters that would come to light would

836
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:59.880
be eye opening. That someone was Susan Powell, and what

837
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.360
what she had written is painful to me to read.

838
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:06.800
As a I like to think I'm a woman's woman. Okay.

839
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.159
I support women, and I want women to be happy

840
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.920
and healthy, and I want women to support other women

841
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.719
and not be a part of the mean girl world

842
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.679
that we have out there. And when I'm looking at

843
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:23.400
the writings that Susan did through the lens of a friend,

844
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:27.679
my heart would hurt for her. If we were personal friends.

845
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.719
I have some direct quotes from her writings because I

846
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:34.239
didn't want to put words in her mouth. But I've

847
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:36.960
shortened them for clarification's sake so that I can just

848
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:40.159
kind of get to the point. But she wrote, I

849
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.000
want my marriage to work out. I told my husband

850
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.599
he's depressed and that he has issues, and that we,

851
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.280
as a family of four, are not happy, and we

852
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.719
are not showing our children how a husband and a

853
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:56.519
wife should interact. We are messing up our children. You

854
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:59.039
can tell that she puts these boys first and foremost,

855
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.519
no matter what their problem were. She wanted her boys

856
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:03.280
to have a good example of what parents should be,

857
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.960
and then she wrote, if I die, it may not

858
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:10.400
be an accident, even if it looks like one. Take

859
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:13.599
care of my boys. I want my parents, Judy and

860
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.920
Chuck Cox, very involved and in charge of their lives.

861
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:21.280
If they aren't there, my sister can hopefully be responsible.

862
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.480
I love my boys, I live for them, and I

863
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:27.800
choose not to cheat or do drugs because I wouldn't

864
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:31.280
want to risk losing them. I love you, Charlie and Braden,

865
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:33.639
and I'm sorry you've seen how wrong and messed up

866
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:40.239
our marriages. I will never leave you, so imagine feeling

867
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.599
so lost and distant from your spouse that you felt

868
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.400
the need to say your death might not be an accident,

869
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.039
and then to put the words on paper, I will

870
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:51.880
never leave you to your babies.

871
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:52.320
Ugh.

872
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:56.159
That makes my heart, my mama heart ache to be

873
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:59.880
thinking that way, and then you do actually go missing

874
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.159
on top of that coincidence, I think not so. Susan

875
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.039
had been very open with her friends before her disappearance

876
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:10.320
about all the troubles that they were having in their marriage.

877
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:14.519
Josh managed all of the money and he was beyond frugal.

878
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:17.960
Nothing she did seemed to be of his liking. It

879
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.079
didn't matter what she did. She even wrote that in

880
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.119
one of her writings, she said that he doesn't want

881
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.480
to do counseling and says that if I buy groceries

882
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.360
only for cheap sale prices, would he be happy with

883
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:33.400
a well purchased bargain deal of a meal in his stomach?

884
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:36.719
And he also said that would solve their marital problems

885
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:39.440
and that the only reason he was mean to her.

886
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:41.719
You're gonna like this, he says. The only reason that

887
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:45.119
he was mean to her is because quote of the

888
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:49.519
Republicans end quote and then He mentioned something about how

889
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:53.039
terrible the economy is because of the quote Republicans, and

890
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:55.880
if that were fixed, then they wouldn't have the marital

891
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.440
problems that they're having. That is so weird to me.

892
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:02.960
He wanted her to go find food at certain price

893
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:07.480
points that were completely unreasonable. Okay, the price points because

894
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:11.760
of just the cost of living were unreasonable, but that's

895
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:13.280
what he wanted her to fix, And then he said

896
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.239
their marriage would be okay. How fucking dumb is that

897
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:19.199
you can't be happy because of the cost of your groceries,

898
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:21.039
like bra There are bigger things to fight over in

899
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:24.679
the world. Not to mention that Josh had no problem

900
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:27.920
spending money on the things he felt were important, you know,

901
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.480
like building himself a really cool, big and fancy supercomputer.

902
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:34.840
He had no problem spending his money on that. But

903
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:39.639
the groceries, h hmm, those better be cheap. Talk about

904
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:42.320
like suck the fun out of your life. At the

905
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.559
same time as he's being very controlling over the money,

906
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.400
he started withdrawing in terms of affection became a super

907
00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.400
touch me not He did not want Susan to be

908
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:56.679
around him, and he was very withdrawn. Also in the bedroom,

909
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:58.599
most people at this point would go Okay, well, if

910
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:01.119
he's withdrawn and all of that, then obviously he was

911
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:03.920
having an affair and he was getting his pleasure elsewhere.

912
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.000
But I'm gonna mix that right now. There was no

913
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:09.239
affair going on. I know that there wasn't, so what

914
00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:13.800
was it. The fights were escalating and Susan was wanting out,

915
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:17.840
but she wanted more for her babies than she did

916
00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:21.159
want to get out, you know, for herself. One argument,

917
00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:23.480
she even pushed him because they got so angry. She

918
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:25.639
pushed him and he turned around and said, if you

919
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.119
ever touch me again, I'm gonna hit you. Now. There's

920
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.639
no proof for a report or anything that ever happened,

921
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:34.119
that he hit her, but the story was one that

922
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:35.760
she had told her friends, and it really just kind

923
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.400
of rocked her world that he would even say that.

924
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:41.199
So she went to a divorce lawyer for a free

925
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:45.320
consultation that was being offered, and she never actually filed

926
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:49.000
for divorce, but she did entertain the idea and on

927
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:51.920
the advice of that attorney from that free counseling session,

928
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.199
he said that she should go and film everything from

929
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:57.840
inside their home. I'm assuming this was for a property

930
00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.679
settlement should things go that way in a divorce proceeding.

931
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:02.840
I want you to listen to her. This is her

932
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.280
in a recording she made, and it's a portion of

933
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.960
her filming her asset.

934
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:12.159
This is me July twenty nine, two thousand and eight,

935
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.639
covering all my bases, making sure that if something happens

936
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.960
to me or my family or all of us, that

937
00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:22.199
our assets are documented and here is are safe. Got

938
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:26.280
all sorts of files, financial information, speakers, five point one

939
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:28.960
star around sound, broke this and through all my DVDs

940
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:29.760
and made a minute.

941
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:30.760
There's a hole in that wall.

942
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:31.800
A full diamond necklace.

943
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:32.880
My mom bought jade.

944
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:35.679
That's a family heirloon, not worth thousands of dollars. But

945
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.039
I have assets, so.

946
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:40.159
I may not know much, I guess, but I do

947
00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:42.199
know the sound of a woman who is tired, and

948
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:44.039
she sounds like she's over it. She doesn't want to

949
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:46.960
do this anymore. She may have been getting close to

950
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.000
being ready to take the leap, but she certainly hadn't

951
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.480
gone over the edge yet. If Josh would have participated

952
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:55.480
in the marriage, it probably wouldn't have come to this.

953
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:58.000
But he just was too far withdrawn at this side

954
00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:00.360
and she was doing everything she could to save them marriage,

955
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:03.320
but she couldn't do it one sided. She did bring

956
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:06.599
it up, though, and Josh threatened her and said, if

957
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:10.119
you try to divorce me, you will never see your

958
00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:13.280
babies again. He would fight her tooth and nail for

959
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:17.199
custody and he would win, and she believed him because

960
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:20.239
he was, after all, the leader of their household. Now,

961
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:23.679
outside looking in, it seems obvious that that wouldn't happen

962
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:26.920
that way. But when you're a woman who feels real

963
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:30.280
fear of consequences of losing your children, possibly I could

964
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:33.480
see why she would believe that that was a possibility.

965
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:37.000
But Susan wasn't a fool, and due to these threats,

966
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:40.639
she had gone and opened a safety deposit box at

967
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:44.239
the bank that Josh was unaware of. And when the

968
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:47.320
police realized this, they went and they looked at the

969
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:50.920
contents of that secret deposit box and lo and behold,

970
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:54.159
there were DVDs of her recordings inside, as well as

971
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:57.280
some savings, bonds and some other things. But there was

972
00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:01.920
also a handwritten will and testament on loose leaf. It

973
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:04.079
was written in blue ink and when I tell you

974
00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:08.440
written top to bottom, left to right, full on back

975
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:11.760
and forth on both sides. I'm not exaggerating. And on

976
00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:14.320
the front of the letter it read for the family

977
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:18.480
and friends of Susan Powell, all except Josh Powell my husband.

978
00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:22.079
I don't trust him. And it was dated Saturday, June

979
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:25.320
twenty eighth, two thousand and eight. So by now you

980
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:27.719
can imagine, with all of this going on, Susan's parents

981
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.079
wanted answers. It had been months their daughter was nowhere

982
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:32.039
to be found, and they wanted to know why the

983
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:34.199
hell Josh hadn't been arrested yet, or any of y'all

984
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.639
wondering this, Like there's a lot going on. Well, circumstantial

985
00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:40.719
evidence just isn't enough. And whenever the police went to

986
00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:43.000
the DA to try to get him arrested, they said,

987
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:45.760
you have to wait twelve months with nobody. We're not

988
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:48.840
going to proceed without charges, with charges if we don't

989
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:52.000
have a body. And so again we're looking at just

990
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.400
circumstantial evidence here. But Josh whenn't closed all of their

991
00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:00.199
bank accounts. He even cashed out Susan's retirement fund, Like

992
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.679
what the fuck? Why would you cash out her retirement fund.

993
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:08.639
Josh's own sister was like, oh, hell no. So she

994
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:11.000
went to the police and she said, look, I'll wear

995
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:13.679
a wire. I will go undercover for you and I'll

996
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.559
see if I can get my brother to confess about

997
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:18.599
where Susan is. And this was in January of twenty ten.

998
00:53:19.639 --> 00:53:22.280
So she does. They wire her up. This sister's a

999
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.119
freaking beast y'all. They wire her up and she goes

1000
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:26.800
into the house. So you can listen to this audio,

1001
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:30.800
and she's kind of playing the game, just small talk

1002
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:34.159
and chatting with the kids. Charlie is super excited because

1003
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:38.000
of his upcoming birthday, and you know, she kind of

1004
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.960
plays the game, but eventually she just cuts to the chase.

1005
00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.320
She pulls her brother into a bathroom and point Blake

1006
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:46.480
asks him about Susan. Here's a little bit of audio

1007
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:48.840
from that wire that she was wearing. I want you

1008
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:50.719
to know it's a bit grainy because it's a hidden

1009
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:52.800
wire and it's not in the studio, of course, but

1010
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:54.760
go ahead and give this a listen. I'm trying to

1011
00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:55.159
tell her.

1012
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:56.920
To that where is Susan?

1013
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:02.519
It stop anymore. I can see You're right, they're still there.

1014
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:03.960
You're wrong.

1015
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:11.199
I think you just to confess now, don't be ridiculous.

1016
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:13.840
I know what I've done, and I haven't done anything.

1017
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:19.199
I've been told to every stat I'm not going to

1018
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:19.840
violate my.

1019
00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:28.519
Attorney, violate your attorney's directions. It's your sister, bro, it's

1020
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.920
your sister in the privacy of your own home, and

1021
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:33.800
your wife is missing, and you're going to say, on

1022
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:36.920
your attorney's instructions you don't want to talk to her.

1023
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:40.880
It's your sister, it's your wife. Why would you not

1024
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:43.880
do anything or say anything? But I get it. He

1025
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.639
wants to close his mouth. So Josh then turns and

1026
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:50.480
runs to their daddy and tells him about the pressure

1027
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.199
that his sister is putting on him, and that on

1028
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:56.760
that same wire, when Josh runs to his daddy, the

1029
00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:00.079
dad then Steven, the dad comes running in and he

1030
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:03.840
calls Jennifer a goddamn fucking bitch for talking about her

1031
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:07.000
brother and then promptly kicks her out of the house.

1032
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:10.880
It is the strangest chain of events that I've heard

1033
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:14.159
on a wire in a while. So police are still

1034
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:17.039
a little loss. They continue to check every avenue possible,

1035
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:21.119
and they even questioned Josh's former coworkers, and they brought

1036
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:23.960
to the police's attention a comment that Josh had made

1037
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.079
in the past that was just kind of off putting

1038
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:28.920
to them, and that was specifically that Josh had told

1039
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.599
them that if he wanted to get rid of a body,

1040
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.119
he would throw it down and abandon mind shaft. So

1041
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:36.800
in light of this, they go and the police search

1042
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:40.599
all these minds and these desolate areas of desert looking

1043
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:43.119
for Susan. I mean, it had been months and they

1044
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:45.400
still had nothing to show for this, but of course

1045
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:49.079
the media wasn't giving up. And Josh is now living

1046
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:52.840
at his dad's house. Well, his dad really took the

1047
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:58.480
reins at this point, and he kind of runs interference

1048
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:01.519
between Josh and the He'll only crack the door if

1049
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:04.239
anyone goes up there and they want to ask questions. Well,

1050
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.599
Susan's parents, they're done playing games at this point. They

1051
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:11.199
go to TV anybody that would listen. This includes Doctor

1052
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:13.519
Phil y'all if you want to go watch the Doctor

1053
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.039
Phil episode, I'll link it in my Patreon. They went

1054
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:20.199
to national media, local media, anybody that would listen, and

1055
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:23.360
they called Josh out. They were done being polite with him.

1056
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:26.480
They even took out a whole ass billboard right outside

1057
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.599
of the neighborhood where Josh was living, asking for any

1058
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:33.960
information about the whereabouts. They offered a reward, but it

1059
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:36.480
had been eighteen months and Josh now he wasn't saying

1060
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:41.360
anything to anyone. Well, on August the twentieth of twenty eleven,

1061
00:56:41.719 --> 00:56:44.000
the Coxes decided to set up what they called a

1062
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:47.000
Honkin' wave and they thought that this might put pressure

1063
00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:50.400
on Josh. So they're standing out there basically on this

1064
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:52.559
corner in front of a gas station. They have these

1065
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:55.360
huge signs with Susan's face on it, and they're asking

1066
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.519
people to hank and basically honk and support of Susan

1067
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:02.360
being fanned. And they're waving the sign said remember me,

1068
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:04.519
and it had a ten thousand dollars reward on it.

1069
00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:09.119
It got a lot of attention, and the news showed up. Well,

1070
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:11.920
when the news showed up and all these people were honking,

1071
00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:15.360
guess who pulled up in their car and jumped out

1072
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:19.239
none other than Josh's dad. Now, Josh's dad is wearing

1073
00:57:19.239 --> 00:57:21.920
blue jeans and this black tucked in shirt with a belt,

1074
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:26.199
and he approaches the Cox family on camera and he

1075
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:30.800
is pissed. Listen to what he tells the parents of

1076
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.559
his missing daughter in law when he's speaking to Komo

1077
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:35.800
News for this is.

1078
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.159
A story that I shop at. The only place is

1079
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:41.239
where they've passed out flyers about Susan, the only place

1080
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:43.639
where they've put up billboards, the only place where they've

1081
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:45.719
duct taped flyers to light pulse.

1082
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:48.760
How is you coming here helping to find Susan?

1083
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.519
It isn't helping to find Susan. How is your standing

1084
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.239
at our neighborhood market helping define Susan?

1085
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:56.760
What in the hell is that about? Rather than feeling

1086
00:57:56.840 --> 00:58:01.079
pleased that Susan hasn't been forgotten, he's feeling horrazed, bizarre.

1087
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:03.480
We all know that this is strange, and I get it.

1088
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:07.559
You're protecting your son, but damn, Susan's missing. Your children

1089
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:10.000
haven't seen their mother in eighteen months. Like, what are

1090
00:58:10.039 --> 00:58:10.440
you doing?

1091
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:10.639
Bro?

1092
00:58:11.480 --> 00:58:14.639
You need to figure something out. If that's not bad enough,

1093
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:19.360
then a van comes screeching up and guess who jumps out. Josh,

1094
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:21.840
the very guy that says he wants to shield his

1095
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:25.360
children from the media. He comes screeching up, jumps out.

1096
00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:27.960
He's got cameras filming the other cameras as if that's

1097
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.679
doing something and the whole time is children are in

1098
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:33.400
the van sitting there looking out while the cameras are

1099
00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:37.599
filming his children. So it just made no sense. But

1100
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:41.800
what it did do was evolve into Josh agreeing to

1101
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.599
do an interview and sit down, and y'all are not

1102
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:48.280
gonna believe where this goes before that would end up

1103
00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:51.280
happening though, just three days later, after this whole blow up,

1104
00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:53.920
on August the twenty third, Josh went down to the

1105
00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:56.719
courthouse and made a big stink saying that the Coxes

1106
00:58:56.760 --> 00:58:59.559
were stalking him and that they had threatened him in

1107
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:02.599
the chill. And so this whole discord between the two

1108
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:05.039
families is just at an all time high. So two

1109
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:08.360
days later, on August twenty fifth, Josh would sit down

1110
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:11.519
for that media interview and he does answer questions on camera.

1111
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:15.880
I'm gonna tell you, he looks frail, he looks sick,

1112
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:19.639
he looks tired, and he's in this maroon polo, just

1113
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.159
sitting there on camera, and while he's answering the questions,

1114
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:27.679
his dad is in the background, almost like a manager

1115
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:29.800
in a weird way, but he's it's like he's somewhat

1116
00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:34.559
overseeing the process. But he would constantly insert and interject,

1117
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:36.920
and the reporter at the time kind of felt like,

1118
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:38.960
why are you wanting to be so involved in this

1119
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:42.639
interview so much? Why are you wanting the spotlight on you?

1120
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:48.320
Is kind of what it seems like. And eventually Steven,

1121
00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:51.320
the dad, just kind of intervenes and they end up

1122
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:56.000
putting him on camera where he drops a bombshell that

1123
00:59:56.159 --> 01:00:00.440
no one is prepared for. Basically, once he even was

1124
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.760
miked up and had the camera on him, he was

1125
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:09.000
chomping at the bit, chomping at the bit to make

1126
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:13.480
the claim that he and Susan, his daughter in law,

1127
01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:21.119
were involved sexually. Wait what you're saying? You were messing

1128
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:25.920
around with Susan and he was, That's what he says

1129
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:28.280
was going on. He adds that he was basically falling

1130
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:31.119
in love with her. And while he's giving all of

1131
01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:35.800
this just what the hell information, Josh doesn't have much

1132
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:39.280
to say in response at all, And any man, I

1133
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:42.199
feel like would have his pride hurt at minimum with

1134
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:45.000
his own dad saying he's messing around with his wife.

1135
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:50.440
But Josh just literally sits there silent, doesn't really have

1136
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:53.440
much to add. Stephen says that, oh yeah, me and Susan.

1137
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:57.079
We were very flirtatious and sexual with each other, and

1138
01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:00.800
things were just really, you know, just kind of hot

1139
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:03.679
and heavy between the two of us. And he even

1140
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:07.599
goes into detail telling about this one story of an

1141
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:09.920
interaction of them together at the park. I want you

1142
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:11.400
to hear him say it. I don't want to repeat

1143
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.480
it to you. Listen to Josh's dad talk about his

1144
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:18.239
sexual relationship with his son's daughter.

1145
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:23.320
Susan was very very sexual with me. She was very flirtatious.

1146
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.880
I mean, she was just she did it.

1147
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:26.559
I did.

1148
01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.599
I mean we interacted in a lot of sexual ways

1149
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:34.960
because Susan enjoys doing that. One day we were at

1150
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:38.320
an animal park. I was holding Braden in my arms

1151
01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:41.480
and I had my hands like this. The part I

1152
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:45.159
remember is that Susan came over to take him from me,

1153
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:48.920
and instead of just reaching out and grabbing him, she

1154
01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:55.400
pressed her breasts against my hands tightly and she wouldn't

1155
01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:58.239
let my hands out. And that's nice. It was a

1156
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:00.480
cold day, so it was a nice warm feeling.

1157
01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:03.000
Are you hearing what I'm hearing? Because he sounds like

1158
01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:06.800
a schoolboy in like a fantasy. But the police still

1159
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.159
were like, okay, I guess we're going down that avenue

1160
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.239
and they had to investigate it. So whenever they went

1161
01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:15.360
and started talking to Susan's friends and asking about Steven,

1162
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:19.400
one hundred percent of the friends, without fail, all immediately

1163
01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:21.719
just scoffed at that idea, like you got it's what

1164
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:24.480
You've got to be kidding me. And they all knew

1165
01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:27.880
for a fact that Susan found her father in law

1166
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:31.760
Steve then nothing short of a creeper. She did not

1167
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:35.239
care for him. She had voiced on multiple occasions how

1168
01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:38.639
uncomfortable he made her whenever she was around him, and

1169
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:42.679
it was not a secret. So why would Steven be

1170
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:47.880
claiming this And did he think that somehow this is

1171
01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:50.000
gonna help find her? Like why would you bring this

1172
01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:53.480
up to the news. So then part of you was

1173
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:55.239
kind of like, well, is he bringing this up in

1174
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:58.440
some strange attempt to draw the heat away from his son,

1175
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:02.199
because that's really bizarre. But I'm gonna tell you, if

1176
01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:05.719
your creep factor isn't waving this red flag right now

1177
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:08.760
high as hell, then maybe this last snippet I'm about

1178
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:11.519
to put in here of a song that Steven wrote

1179
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:16.440
about Susan, his daughter in law, sang and then published

1180
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:21.199
online about the same time. Maybe this will get your

1181
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:24.679
juices flowing. Okay, because this is not cool.

1182
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:30.000
I can love you in a secret way. I can

1183
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:33.039
love you each ada every day.

1184
01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:36.840
Is your jaw down after hearing that short little insert

1185
01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:40.440
because mine was on the floor. What is happening in

1186
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.360
our world today? And I'm sure you can't believe this,

1187
01:03:45.559 --> 01:03:50.440
but I am just getting started with this case. I

1188
01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:53.480
promise you this is not a false teaser or something

1189
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:55.679
like that. I'm gonna have to cut it off at

1190
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:57.519
this point. Like I told you, it's gonna take me

1191
01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:01.239
two episodes. You are going to flip out next episode

1192
01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:03.719
when I finished telling you where this goes. You cannot

1193
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:06.559
foresee where this is going, So stay tuned for next

1194
01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:10.400
week's conclusion. And trust me when I say I am

1195
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.960
unimpressed with Stephen, you won't be very impressed either. We

1196
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:16.079
can all tell that he's trying to woo Susan with

1197
01:04:16.119 --> 01:04:18.199
his songs, but from where I'm sitting, the only thing

1198
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:19.599
he's seducing is fear.