Twice Offended: The Interview of Cheryl Bartlett Fann

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime
podcast where I tell stories of real crimes

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with real victims, whose cases are
so shocking that many are left wondering how

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is this even real? I use
my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and

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combined with my years as a criminal
justice educator, dig deep into complex cases

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of evil acts, some so evil
many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

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Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences.
If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is
advised. Hey, y'all's kJ here back

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for an another episode of Unspeakable.
How is it going? I am so

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excited for what is gonna happen today. You know you've been a listener for

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a long time, hopefully, but
you know that my motto of this podcast

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has always been victims first, right, and if you are easily offended,

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then I'm not your girl. Well, today I have a guest for you,

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uh and she is if you listen
to last drop. Make sure you

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listen to last drop before you listen
to this one. If you're out of

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order. Okay, but last week
we dropped an episode and we spoke about

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these horrible brothers. Horrible is the
only word we can say, and that

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they committed atrocities against a miss Cheryl
Bartlett fan. Well, y'all know me.

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Y'all know that I can't leave well
Enough alone. And so I got

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on Facebook and I did my Facebook
investigations like I always do, and I

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was able to find Miss Cheryl through
that trusty resource of Facebook, and today

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I have her live and in the
flesh right here. Hi, Miss Cheryl,

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Hi, how are you doing today? Okay, you're doing okay.

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I add to some little nervous and
I want you to know that nervous.

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Nervous is for a place, not
here, because I'm here for you with

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you. The listeners of my podcast
are here for you. They want to

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hear what you have to say,
and this is your story. So try

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not to be nervous because I'm here
because I want to hear what you have

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to say. That's all I want
to have. I want to hear.

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So and you're joining me in Kentucky, right, yes, So shout out

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to everybody in Kentucky that listens.
I've got one of your fellow what we

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say, Kentuckians, Yeah, kentucky
Onians. So tell me, tell me

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a little bit about your life today. How what are things like today?

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Things are a whole lot better than
they've been. I have my husband in

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thirty six years, I am mister
Danny. Yes, I have four grown

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boys, fifteen grandchildren, and five
great grandchildren. So your your family has

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flourished and blossomed. It sounds like
what a lucky lady in that regard,

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right, Yes, But we're going
to back up some right, so hopefully

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everyone has already listened, like I
said to the previous episode, and you've

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heard of things that happened to miss
Cheryl. And what I was hoping we

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could do is kind of pick up
with after the attack on you, and

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maybe you could walk my listeners through
what it was like to have been only

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one of two surviving victims. Correct, Yes, and there was a total

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of nine, well nine nine nine
n yeah, because there was quite a

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few, right, And what was
it first of all? What was it

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like when it kind of started coming
together? Because I know the little girl

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was killed what three weeks after your
attack? Is that correct? Yes?

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So did y'all did you know in
the at the beginning that it was tied

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in or did you find that out
later on? Well before my attack.

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I never knew of the other ones
because I hated the news. And then

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when the little girl happened, that's
when my dad sat me down and said,

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we need to talk, and he
explained what was going on, and

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then it was just terrifying. It
was just to realize that they're out here

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killing these couples and they're not finding
out who they are, right, and

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they kind of had free reign.
Oh, we didn't know where. How

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far away from where you were did
the little girl's murder occur? Do you

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know? I think what was on
the other side of town. I believe

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I'm not too familiar with that side
of town, but I mean you could

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have driven there. Oh yeah,
easily. Yes, So is there something

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like tell me, just how does
it feel when you know you're only one

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of two survivors of all of these
people? Why do you think that is

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or do you have any you know, thought on that you have guilt that

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you survived and as twelve year old
died, you wonder every day how these

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kids and they were all kids died
and they hit a future ahead of them

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and I made it. And then
you just you carry that guilt around even

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though it's not my fault. I
still carry it, do you. I

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hope. Look, you're the victim, but I get to speak on behalf

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of the people that care about victims, even if we've never met in person.

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Do you know that so many people
look at you as the guiding light

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for these victims because you make it
and tell me you to be the voice.

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Well, when the first episode,
when the first interview come out with

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A and E, and a couple
of people come up to me and said,

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I'm sorry, you know, and
then you read this stuff online and

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you got people saying what did you
do to deserve it? And you go

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Anthony and Nathaniel and it was just
disgusting. And then when the second interview

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came out, one lady come up
to me and wanted to hug me.

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I'm not the type of person to
hug me if I don't know you.

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And I told her no, that
it was okay, and she got offended

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by it, and then she said, well, I just wanted to say

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I'm glad you're alive. And I
said, thank you. I'm glad i'm

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alive too, you know, because
I don't trust other people much and I

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think you should have that right.
My goodness, right to be attacked out

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of the blue by people you don't
know. I think that should be a

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learning point too to everybody that's listening
to this episode, that you've been through

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a tragedy such as you have and
a trauma that there are long lasting effects.

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And I even touched on that in
the episode when you had told me

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that obviously you're not a prejudiced person, and I shouldn't have to even say

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that, but I'm gonna throw it
out there if anyone's curious. Neither one

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of us are prejudiced people. However, it's it's hard to not say that

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you wouldn't be afraid of another man
that you don't know coming into your hospital

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room. Then, on top of
that, you said that your nurse was

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an African American right R nurse and
you had been attacked by the exact same

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you know, uh, not person, but demographic of person, and that

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was kind of jarring to you.
So how do you does that become complicated

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as a victim, you know,
for someone who's ever been through it,

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does that become complicated? The only
thing that is complicated, like where I

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live and we have a black male
here that has that, How can you

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say that like a the smell that
I smelled, uh huh, and and

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I kind of freaked out because it
was just me and him in the elevator.

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Oh I see, So that brings
it back like a back. It's

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like a flashback. Yeah, it
just brings me all the way back to

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that. And I had to get
off because I start hypergunolating and start having

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anxiety attacks. So now I learned
not to get in. I feel bad

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because he's a really nice guy,
but it's just that certain smell that I

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get, or like if I go
to a garage, no, I can't

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handle that. I will stand outside
and if I hear it smell like a

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whift of it, I'm gone,
Like the oil and the all of that.

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You're done, How incredible, serioussociating
everything, even in today's times.

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Do you are you afraid of guns? No, not really, just the

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people that carry them and may use
them in an improper way. Yeah,

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I understand. So you were in
the hospital and you recovered, thank the

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Lord, and you were able to
get out. But I did also say

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in the episode that the relationship between
you and Bud failed. It did not

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last much longer, and he went
on and did his thing. Where did

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that leave you? Because I'm looking
at you or thinking of you back then,

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you're young, you're in your twenties, right, and you've lost First

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of all, you're attacked, you're
scared, your fiance and our son's father

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leaves, and you kind of felt
left with nothing. I guess you got

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stripped of everything literally, And how
did that? How did you work through

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that? Well? I kind of
went while for a while because I thought,

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Okay, look what they did to
me. He left me because of

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it, and I took my revenge
out on other people, like other men.

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I got to a point where I
had him fall in love with me

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or like me really good, and
then I'd say, oh, pushback,

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you're getting too close. So I
changed a lot compared to what I was

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when I was eighteen. Did you
go to any therapy for it? Did

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you think you needed it? Well? I went to therapy one time,

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to a doctor and a psychiatrist,
and he we found out he was a

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pervert. He got arrested and he
was in prison. He asked me detail

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every single detail. He didn't want
he didn't say, let's start off,

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you know, how was your day
something like that. He wanted every single

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detail of what happened, and then
we end up finding out he got arrested

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for being inappropriate. You think it
sounds like it, Yeah, And so

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it goes supposed to be in a
trusted environment where you can relax and you

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can talk about something, and then
he ends up getting arrested. The therapist

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did yes. Then, so I
don't go to one because I don't trust

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him. I don't. I didn't
know that before we started recording. I'm

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kind of like processing that in every
way possible. This seems to have just

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not gone well for you. Yep. So then trial, well, I

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don't want to skip straight to trial. I want to talk about as more

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people were killed? Did you You
didn't know in the moment, but y'all

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started figuring it out right that they
were connected to one another. Yes,

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my mom worked with two of the
couples, and when we found that out,

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and then all the other ones come
in, and then I see that

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they thing on the TV of Anthony
where he I think it was Swicky that

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he killed, and I started getting
really scared and hyperventilating him. My dad

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says, what's wrong. I said, that's him. I don't care what

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nobody says, that's him. And
then so Jack got up and he called

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the what do you call them,
an detective or the detective and told him

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they needed to come out, and
then they came out, and then we

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sat down, and so that sketch
was really like, you knew the second

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you saw that face that sketch that
that was him. And so when the

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arrests were made, did they call
you right then to say we've got want

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in custody that is responsible or did
they how tell me from a victim's standpoint,

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how were you in the loop or
not in the loop? Where did

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this all go awry? I was
not in the loop. They did not

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call me. We've seen it on
TV that they they arrested him for Swicky

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Anthony and that they he may and
with other ones, other murderers around here,

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but they didn't know. They didn't
contact me right away, so you

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just had to kind of hope I
guess he was the right guy. Yeah,

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okay, so once it once they
were both arrested and both in custody,

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and we know that they're responsible.
There was a confession which I did

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go listen to. By the way, you at your you had told me

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that I could go find it on
a certain channel on a certain episode,

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and I did go listen to it, but they kind of broke it up.

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I tried to find the full confession
in one but I was unable to

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do that. So when you didn't
even know that there was a confession,

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correct? No? Well no,
I was so upset because they I when

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I talked to him, I felt
like they thought I was lying because I

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mean to go back to because I
said where they arrived those the police said,

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that's not their m mole. How
do they know what their m is?

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These other people were dead. They
could have took the took things off

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of them and the police would have
never known. Got you because they took

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two dollars, right, Bud had
two dollars in his wallet. They took

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his wallet which had the IDs in
it, which had y'all's addresses in it.

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They Bud had a nice watch,
you said, yes, and then

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my wedding rings and your wedding rings, and my mother's ring and your mother's

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ring. Was that ever recovered?
No? No, never got that back.

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So you're right though, to your
point, though, how would anybody

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know if they were robbed? They're
dead, They can't speak, They can't

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tell you what they had or didn't
have. Even if they had cash on

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them, nobody would know that.
So I guess they meant main main motive

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was sex and murder and control.
Is that how you interpreted it? Yes,

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I guess they figure, you know, nobody can Nobody said anything about

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them stealing anything in which they can't. They just figured, you know,

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it's just another line, just like
they lied about not having my DNA.

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So talk to me about that part. I know you were very upset about

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that, So let me tell my
listeners this real quick. Miss Cheryl and

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I did speak last week or the
week before, and you were very upset.

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And I feel like this someone might
think this should be behind the scenes.

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To me, this should be the
forefront of the scenes, because this

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is where we need to learn,
and we can learn from your experience that

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you said a lot of things happened
that you felt weren't right, and you

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felt revictimized by the process and the
way that things went. So when you

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were in the hospital, they did
a DNA test. They came in and

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I mean a rape test kit,
right, which was very invasive. Would

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that be a correct way to say
that, Yes, and when I got

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to the emergency room, it was
painful. Yes, it was painful and

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invasive. And how many people were
in the room? Do you remember when

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they were doing that? Kid?
They let my mom stay in there with

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me. There was probably three nurses
and a doctor waiting and then doing the

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year they had to do. Right, So I want the listeners understand there's

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four strangers in there and a very
private very You've just been raped and shot.

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If we're going to put it all
in there, and now you've got

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four strangers, which I totally respect
the medical community and all that they have

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to do, but it's still for
you. Was a lot of people in

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your private space after all of this
has just happened. They did that rape

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test kit, and then what happened
with it that I don't know. I

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don't understand because they said they had
no DNA and I don't understand what they

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do with that. I don't understand
what they do with my clothes. So

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whenever, and I'm not trying to
be graphic, I'm just trying to be

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factual here, whenever they raped you, they did not use any type of

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protection, no condoms or anything like
that. No, so and they both

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completed the act of rape. Of
what you know, everyone understands what I'm

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trying to say. They both completed
what they started out to do. Yes,

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so and then you read rest correct, you put on underwear in your

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pants, yes, which is exactly
how they got the DNA on the last

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victim. Was that when she redressed, the seaman continues to drip out of

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the body and they were able to
get that off of clothing that got trapped

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in her pants. So your pants
and your underwear were never brought up again.

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And then that DNA kit or the
rake test kit everyone a word at

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kit was never brought up again and
never mentioned, no, never, They

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didn't say nothing about it. And
so when y'all went to court, and

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I'm trying to be it's hard,
guys when you're doing these type of episodes

224
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because there's so much you want to
say, and it's hard to go in

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a timeline order, because this didn't
quite happen in a ABCD order, right.

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It was kind of all over the
place. But they came to you

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and said, we cannot connect them
to you directly because we don't have a

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DNA connection. No. I think
when they came to me They said that

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they that they can't take them up
on my charges because the other charges they

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got on the other kids were better
than mine. So they took him up

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on mine. And because I I
d'd him and then Buddy didn't I d

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him at Anthony, that's what got
they They kind of got confused about it,

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and they said they would be like
getting up on a stand and you're

234
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being confused, and it'd be just
a waste of their time. So in

235
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other words, I'm a waste of
their time. That's how you felt,

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was that you speaking up and telling
your part was a waste of their time.

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I felt, Yeah, I was
angry. I felt like I got

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raped by Ohio all over again.
Wow. So it makes me kind of

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think back here where I'm atam in
Louisiana, we had a serial killer,

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Derek Toddley, and I'm gonna be
doing a series on him soon. But

241
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when it all was said and done, some of the victims that everyone believes

242
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he was the perpetrator on these people. When they went to trial, those

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people were left off because they felt
like the case wasn't as strong as the

244
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other ones, and they wanted to
make sure to get the conviction so I

245
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could understand that from a conviction standpoint. What I want to say, though,

246
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is from a victim standpoint, it
mattered to you that you be included

247
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in those charges. Is that fair? Yes? I should have been in

248
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there. They took they did what
they did to me, and that's not

249
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right. I'm living. I'm here
to tell my story. I could have

250
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went and gave them everything that I
said that they did before they interviewed them.

251
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Tony confirmed it, and I felt
right Tony, and I felt like

252
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the police thought I was lying until
even when they when they confirmed everything I

253
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said, I never heard nothing from
the police about it. They never followed

254
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up with you. They never said, well, this is what we've got.

255
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So you didn't even know there was
a a confession. You found that

256
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out by watching the television show when
you were asked if you would interview.

257
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Yes. I watched after we got
that known with the interview, and after

258
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they showed it on and I sat
there and all of a suddenly, I

259
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was in the kitchen doing dishes and
I heard them speak and I heard them

260
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say what they did to me,
and I dropped. And it just it's

261
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so wrong that they couldn't even give
me the decency to tell me that they

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finally confessed to it, where they
kept saying, we can't do nothing about

263
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it, and then I felt like
they didn't believe me, but they believed

264
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them what they had to say,
right, And this should be a testament

265
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:53.640
to law enforcement today that the victims
have. And I'm telling you, I've

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sat through many a training of law
enforcement today and I'm you know, I'm

267
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not even I'll be forty in August, so again and different generation because this

268
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happened to you in the eighties.
Correct the date, so I'm sure we've

269
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come a long way since then.
But it is so important that these victims

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be kept abreast of all, you
know, things that can be shared with

271
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them that wouldn't compromise the integrity of
the investigation, but to let and to

272
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be heard and to be believed.
You know. Even in nine to one

273
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one training, which I also train
on train other students on nine one one,

274
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it says the number one complaint that
people have in all facets of life,

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whether it's policing, whether it's nine
one one, whether it's Walmart,

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the number one complaint that comes out, which I'm not speaking on behalf of

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Walmart by the way, is that
people complain that people were rude to them,

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and the next one was that they
didn't feel like they were believed about

279
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what happened. And that is so
important, especially what you went through,

280
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that you are believed. I believe
you. I believe everything you say,

281
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and I believe that you're truthful.
If that's worth anything, I want you

282
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:08.839
to hear me say that that I
believe you, and I believe that you're

283
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truthful, and I believe that you
are the epitome of the voice for victims

284
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.519
that do feel victimized by things not
quite going. You know, it's more

285
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.160
than illegal with that, would you
agree it's more than what happens in the

286
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:29.519
courtroom. Yes, the courtroom part
is more or less for them and for

287
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.200
them to stand up. You know
they from what I understand, when they

288
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:38.359
went through court, they were laughing
and looking around and more or less antagonizing

289
00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:42.480
them. I'm glad I didn't show
up at one point, because I don't

290
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.079
I would have lost it because as
it is, when Nathaniel got out,

291
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he looked at us, walked past
us and just smirked. And I hate

292
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:55.599
to say this, and I don't
like guns, but if I could have

293
00:22:55.640 --> 00:23:00.119
got away with it. It would
have happened, and I would have been

294
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.759
okay to go to prison for it. And you look, I have a

295
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.960
shirt just so you know. It's
not I don't have it on right now.

296
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.000
I have a different one on.
But I said one time in an

297
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.400
episode, I'll smile on my mugshot
over the safety of my children and the

298
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.680
things that I love, and people
loved it. We ended up making a

299
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.400
shirt. I was smiling my mug
shot. It's not fair, it's not

300
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.039
right. And then we're all supposed
to turn the other cheek and be the

301
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:27.400
bigger person when these people have done
such atrocities. They don't, you know,

302
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.680
they deserve so much more than what
they got. You deserve so much

303
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:40.079
more than what you got on different
you know ends of it. So you

304
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.039
tell me you said that when you
did these shows that there were things you

305
00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.640
wanted to say that you felt like
they cut it out or they didn't acknowledge

306
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.799
it. Can you talk to me
about those things? Well, when we

307
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.039
did this show, we talked about
how I felt about them. We talked

308
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:02.480
about how I felt that Julia Bates, the prosecutor, did and she did

309
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:07.559
a lousy job. She everybody else
thinks she's this and that, but twenty

310
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:14.319
years that's bs because they you know, twenty years is going to go by

311
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.240
fast. She told, call me
and said, okay, the majority of

312
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.319
the family, Well, let's to
go with the twenty years. I said

313
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.200
no. She said, well,
we can't go with just you, we

314
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.920
can't go with just them. Well
you are going with them. I'm speaking.

315
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.599
I think he needs more time.
Well, I'm sorry, but this

316
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.160
is the majority, and that's it. She's lied to me a couple of

317
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.920
times. She said, what can
ohie, because I there was a thing

318
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.680
in it's little blade about me,
and she said, what can we do

319
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.400
to help you and make things right? I said, I have a scar

320
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.960
from the middle of my breastbone all
the way down. Get me a plastic

321
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.039
surgeon, and it's like two inches
wide. And I said, I can

322
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.440
get it down to it inline or
get it taken away. She said,

323
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.279
okay, let me work something else. So she calls back and says,

324
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.480
yeah, if I but you have
to bring your insurance. So in other

325
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.480
words, Tennessee would be my insurance
in Tennessee would be paying for in that

326
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.440
Ohio and then here she said,
well, do you mind if we have

327
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:17.920
newspeople there or somebody there documenting this. No, I'm not on show for

328
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.279
her, right, I mean you're
trying to because for listeners that don't know,

329
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.640
we do have like victim funds in
our states for this type of stuff,

330
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.440
and it covers a gamut of things. Maybe I need to do an

331
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.240
episode on that that or it's supposed
to cover a gamut of things because victim,

332
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:34.559
you didn't ask for this. You
didn't ask for this to be done,

333
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:38.079
and you just want to be made
whole again as best as possible and

334
00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.240
to feel good about yourself, and
then to be asked, can we bring

335
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:49.279
people to document it, like like
privacy again? Right? You just want

336
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:55.559
I've been pretty lucky so far about
the privacy that other than just a few

337
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.640
people have came up to me and
one lady wanted to hug me. And

338
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.359
I don't like being touched by people
I don't know, so I don't try

339
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.480
to be mean or nasty, and
I don't know. I just I'm so

340
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:11.880
angry over the way everything turned out. But like people say, well he

341
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:17.680
served twenty he did his time.
I'm still doing my time. You're gonna

342
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.799
do your time till the day you
die. Yes, I'm gonna remember it.

343
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.000
I'm gonna every time I get that
smell, I get that feeling,

344
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.599
or I see a man walking down
the street in an army jacket in a

345
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:33.759
ski cap, I freak out.
Danny and I was walking down the street

346
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.880
one day and there was a guy
coming down the other side of the street

347
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.559
and he had an army jacket on
and a ski mask. I ran back

348
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.920
to the house and he said all
he did is turn around, look,

349
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.160
and I was gone, why do
you have a ski mask? One?

350
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.640
I don't not not the toboggan that's
about Okay, Okay. I was like,

351
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:59.799
cherryl why are these men running around
with these ski masks? Bless your

352
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.720
hard? Well? What else?
I said, let me let me back

353
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.319
up if we can say this so
in the episode, and I hope that

354
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.119
you'll go listen to it if you're
if you are so inclined. Obviously,

355
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.440
I don't want to force thenone to
do anything they don't want to do.

356
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.839
But I mentioned in there that when
we elect prosecutors, they like to tout

357
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:23.599
that their conviction rates are so high. But to me, conviction rates are

358
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:29.000
irrelevant. If everything's a plea bargain, and they're doing nothing for what they've

359
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.200
done. You know, a conviction
is no, it doesn't matter like if

360
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.119
you come into my house and you
burn it down or something, and then

361
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.160
you may do a plea bargain and
say, Okay, you're going to serve

362
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.200
thirty minutes for it. Have you
really gotten justice? Have you really accomplished

363
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.240
anything. No, you've put a
feather in your cap saying that you got

364
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:49.279
a conviction. But the victim's over
here going wait a minute, the conviction

365
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.319
doesn't do anything for me. They
need to pay for what they did,

366
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:59.759
right, I totally agree. See, I'll never feel satisfied over this,

367
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.839
not till the day they die.
And when they died, were we've all

368
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.599
agreed. The families that are left, we've all agreed, when they died,

369
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.440
we're gonna have the biggest fastest party
there is because hey, hell's gonna

370
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.359
be full. Yes, when those
two were gone, and I'll say,

371
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.319
because I don't care, I also
went and looked up the not Anthony,

372
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:25.480
which one Nathaniel. He's the one
that's out right now living with the mom

373
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:29.359
right, Yes, Yeah, So
I went and looked up where he lives

374
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.279
and all of that and an interviewer
went and said, oh, I went

375
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.400
to interview him, but I sent
a letter ahead of time so that I

376
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.400
wouldn't be you know, so he
would be prepared. And I kind of

377
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.759
sat back and thought, who the
hell are you. This woman did not

378
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:47.400
get a letter to warn her what
was going to happen to her and give

379
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.240
her a heads up. The twelve
year old little girl whose brains were bashed,

380
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.599
and she didn't get a heads up. The other couples who were shot

381
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:59.119
and tortured and stuffed in trunks,
they didn't get a heads up. But

382
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:02.960
you want to act like you some
kind of you're being superior, morally superior

383
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:04.640
by giving him a heads up that
you're gonna come talk to him about the

384
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:11.920
atrocities that he committed on his own
volition and choice. And then she shows

385
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:14.680
up on the doorstep and he says, that's in the past. I just

386
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.039
want that to remain in the past. And then the interviewer or the woman

387
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.920
that read the article said, I
was just surprised at how he was an

388
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.359
older man, and he was he
was a mild mannered everybody gets old.

389
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:36.319
That doesn't mean anything. I know, I'm watching you on screen like,

390
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:41.480
what are people missing? Until they're
a victim or they've been in my shoes,

391
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:45.720
they'll never understand. They can say
that he's the sweetest man ever,

392
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.799
but until they know that, unless
they were there that night when that happened,

393
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:53.359
he wasn't no sweet man, not
when you got a knife at your

394
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:57.799
throat and you're being raped and their
boyfriend's got a gun in his head and

395
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.920
they take the mask off so he
can watch, and not so he can

396
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.359
watch, so he will watch,
yes, And I'm sorry, but they

397
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.559
wanted him to suffer too. Yes, they wanted to watch you be defiled.

398
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.720
They got off on that power.
They got off on the whole,

399
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.599
on the whole scheme of it to
make both of you suffer. And they

400
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:23.720
tried to end your life. And
the fact that they didn't doesn't mean crap.

401
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:30.319
They tried to, So I don't
know why they're being given this this.

402
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.680
Oh well, she didn't die,
so what would you would? Would

403
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.480
it? Would the world feel better
if you had died, like in a

404
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:40.039
weird way? And I don't mean
this crass, but what does it take?

405
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.000
Does the victim have to lose their
life for someone to say, oh,

406
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.119
maybe we need to put a bullet
back in them. Well, there

407
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.680
was other victims and look what they
did to Dawn and then they pat him

408
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.759
on the hand. That's why,
I said Julie Bason in the Slio Police

409
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:59.640
department. They're they're rotten. They
got to like on the slash shold.

410
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.960
They gotta protect themselves by lying.
They sat there in no DNA bull crap.

411
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:07.759
There was DNA. How can you
not give DNA because they did not

412
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:14.400
use no protection and there was two
of them. Yes, I wonder do

413
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.599
you think do you wonder if maybe
they lost the rate test kit or something?

414
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.240
Yeah, it's possible, Yeah,
and they just trying to back themselves

415
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.720
up. I'm curious. I'm genuinely
like, this is genuine curiosity. This

416
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:33.079
is there's no there's no production,
you know, like, don't dn't daw

417
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.920
about this. I'm genuinely curious about
your DNA kit. I don't understand how

418
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.720
they can get DNA off of Sandra
and this I'm not exactly sure what't happened

419
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:45.519
to Sandra, but I don't know
how they can get DNA off of her,

420
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.880
but they couldn't get it off me. And they did a rate kit.

421
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:53.039
When they do a rate kit they
scrape and they get what they can

422
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.119
get, and you're they're telling me
they couldn't that they're the only thing they

423
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.880
got off or a RAATE kit was
a small patch of seamen on the pants.

424
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:08.559
Boy, right right, They're wrong. Something's something is a miss there.

425
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.599
Yeah, I mean, I'm convinced
something is a miss there. And

426
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:19.160
I'm not accusing anyone of anything malicious
on purpose, but I am as your

427
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.839
friend. Can I call myself your
friend? Because I feel like I'm on

428
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:24.960
your side. I want to know
what happened to it? Where is the

429
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:30.319
DNA kit? That would be nice, but I think they've botched it somehow,

430
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:37.720
them or the hospital did something.
Because I'm with you, there's no

431
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:44.200
way. Whenever they gave their confessions
and they said okay, you were contact

432
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:45.680
and said you don't need to come
to court, no one's going to be

433
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:49.799
speaking, No one's going to be
as far as victims go. Can you

434
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.359
talk to me about what happened there
too? Yeah. They said that they

435
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.440
were going to do a plea agreement
and I told him I still didn't agree

436
00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:00.680
on it. They said it's done
set because they they they told on everything

437
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:07.240
and they said, don't worry you
don't have to come to court. None

438
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.920
of the family's gonna come. It's
just gonna be a quick deal in and

439
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.000
out of court. We were at
my We were in Ohio that weekend or

440
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.279
that week to help move my mom, and when she called and said,

441
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.160
don't worry, don't come, we
said, okay, fine. Later that

442
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:28.680
day on the news everybody was there
and that everybody got to speak. I

443
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.440
felt, you know, it was
like I'm pushed aside. Again. You're

444
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:37.839
living, be thankful for that.
These victims are gone. So in other

445
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.799
words, I'm a living victim.
But they have more rights. And it's

446
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:45.119
not whether they had rights or I
had rights. But I would have liked

447
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:49.160
to have been there and been able
to talk to the judge or whoever I

448
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.079
had to and say what I felt
that they did to me. But Julie

449
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.880
Bates said, no, don't worry, don't come. We don't need you

450
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.079
here. It's just gonna be in
and out. Did you call after that?

451
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:00.839
Did you call to say why did
you tell me not to come?

452
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.319
Or was it just so emotional that
you just I just I didn't want to

453
00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:07.679
talk to her because I knew if
I talked to her, she would not

454
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:10.320
have liked what I had to say
to her, Well, tell me this

455
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.840
if you could speak. And I
know we're on this is I know this.

456
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.320
We didn't plan any of this,
so I know this is kind of

457
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:21.639
off the cuff. But there's a
lot of people that listen to this podcast

458
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:27.119
a lot. What would you say
to them? Not to the people that

459
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.599
listen to the podcast. I'm saying
to Anthony and to Nathaniel, if you

460
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:37.599
could have a moment and you wanted
people to hear, because I want to

461
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:42.079
give it to you, what would
you say, because way more people I

462
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.360
want to I want you to know
this. Way more people are going to

463
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:49.719
listen to this podcast than would have
been in that courtroom. So I'm gonna

464
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:57.679
I want people to hear. What
would you say? Oh boy, I've

465
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:01.360
gone over and over in my head
and this is this is really different.

466
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:07.840
I don't know if I could have
stayed calm. I was. I was

467
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:13.800
eighteen years old, and they took
my self esteem away. They took a

468
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:19.000
part in me away. Because after
that happened, I went nuts. And

469
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:23.360
I don't mean literally nuts. I
just didn't care about life. And I

470
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:29.480
hate them. I hope they writ
in hell. I hope they've burned for

471
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:35.960
eternity to where it just eats their
skin up so bad. If I would

472
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.760
have had a gun, they wouldn't
be here. And I don't care who

473
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:46.159
likes it. I just I hate
them. They're just they're just pigs and

474
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:55.159
they are and you're right, and
everything that you're saying right now should be

475
00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:01.119
said. It should be said.
You deserve that. Why do we give

476
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.679
and I hope you can feel the
genuineness in my heart right now to you.

477
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.559
Why do we give them the decency
of sitting in the court and being

478
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:15.000
tried? And I understand laws,
Okay, so I know people aren to

479
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.239
come after me, but if we're
just talking pure raw emotion right now,

480
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:22.159
just pure raw emotion, why did
they get to sit in a air conditioned

481
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:29.280
courtroom with a button up shirt,
getting to groom themselves to look appropriate before

482
00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:34.880
a jury or what? Why do
we and then the victim, the victim

483
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:44.920
who actually suffered, never gets a
moment to look them in the face and

484
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:51.239
say, you're a piece of shit
and your mom should be ashamed of you,

485
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:54.199
and your people who are friends with
you should be ashamed of you.

486
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:00.079
You know what I mean? You
have to be the bigger person. I

487
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.400
just get sick of that. It's
the whole purpose of my podcast. When

488
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:08.320
they showed it down in the news, they were sitting there laughing and cutting

489
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:13.360
up and like leaning back in their
chair like ha ha, here I am

490
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.519
mine, look at me, and
you just you want to go up there

491
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.440
and just slap on you, just
want to do whatever you have to do

492
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:22.760
to get it off their face,
because that neither one of them had a

493
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.920
remorse. He didn't even have a
remorse when he got out, because then

494
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.119
when he got out in August of
eighteen, I think it was he come

495
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:34.519
walking in the courtroom, looked at
all of us and just laughed and just

496
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.119
walked ahead and like, I'm getting
out and there's nothing you can do about

497
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:44.960
it. And he was right.
I don't. I don't know how you

498
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:52.119
carry that every day, and I
think that you are so I'm so I

499
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.480
don't know what the word is.
I'm so proud of you. I don't

500
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:59.519
know if proud is the word.
I'm so impressed by you that you carry

501
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:01.440
that day in and day out,
and look at you though, real quick,

502
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:07.400
the biggest joke on them is look
at you moved on with your life

503
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.880
married. I'm your absolute stud muffin
of a husband. Right, how many

504
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:15.079
years ago? Been married? Thirty
five? Thirty five years? Raised four

505
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:22.320
boys? If anything, I think
you yourself. You know, you can't

506
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:28.760
always be reaching outwards for vindication.
You are your own vindication. I hope

507
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:30.400
you feel that when you look in
the mirror, I hope you feel like,

508
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.079
look at you. You know.
I always wonder why, what is

509
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:38.519
my purpose in life here? You
know? And I wonder if going through

510
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:45.280
that make help, did you know, not help, like make me understand

511
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:46.880
a little bit, because I want
to get it out there that you know.

512
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:51.599
There's one thing I didn't tell you
about, and you probably read it

513
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.199
is a week before this happened,
I drunk, I was getting raped and

514
00:38:54.400 --> 00:39:00.480
shocked, and I listen to my
dreams. Now I know people say,

515
00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:06.320
oh, that's crazy. No,
it's not crazy, because if I would

516
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.719
have listened to my dream I never
would have been out in that street like

517
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.239
that. But then I wonder if
they would have caught Buddy on the way

518
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.480
home and they would have wrong.
Buddy would have not thinking and bought them

519
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.840
to the house with our son.
There. See, that's a lot of

520
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:29.440
why I didn't run home because of
my son there well. And also none

521
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.280
of this would have come full circle. And I don't think they would have

522
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:36.599
gotten any justice if you hadn't jumped
up and seen that photo or that drawing

523
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.480
and said that's him. You know
you did play an integral part of them

524
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.719
getting locked up. You did,
and while on this earth, you know,

525
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.679
it doesn't feel like enough, but
eternity is going to be a bitch.

526
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.480
Sorry for them because they're gonna get
it. But I just back.

527
00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:57.000
I want to tell you this though. You know you look at that beam

528
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:59.599
a light coming down for people who
are watching us. You said that beam

529
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:02.360
a light man? Can you see
it in your video? In your in

530
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:07.800
your video. I'm telling you you
have been so important to this case and

531
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:14.320
you could have done so many other
things, but you picked yourself up by

532
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:20.840
your bootstrapped. You did that nobody
else and you went on with your life

533
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:22.920
and you raised four boys. Tell
me about Eric though, how how you

534
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.039
said he's in his forties today?
Right? Yes, he's forty five.

535
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:32.159
I think he'll be forty five.
Yeah, he's older than me. And

536
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.880
he's the baby of the story I
keep talking about. And he's older than

537
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:38.639
me. Yeah, what does he
do like you told. Let me tell

538
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:42.760
you why I'm asking this real quick, you said, And I listened to

539
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.519
your heart when you said, while
you were being raped my baby, would

540
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.320
I ever get to see him grow
up? Who would take care of him?

541
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:52.159
Who would love him? The answer
was you, because they couldn't stop

542
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:58.000
you tell me about him growing up? Oh, he was. He loves

543
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:01.079
hockey. Hockey was his whole like
the whole time. He's grown up because

544
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:05.199
a little bit of my sister and
my fault because we went to the hockey

545
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:09.320
game. Slot he is. He
he had his first child at eighteen.

546
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.679
He was a little mischief teenager.
But now he does painting. He has

547
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:20.559
come. Yeah, he's a painter, jim producer, Jimothy. He for

548
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.480
thirty something years sold paint and did
painting. So he does. He's got

549
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:29.760
his own company. He's doing good. He's he's doing really good. He

550
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:34.760
he don't like watching any of the
shows I've done or any of the interviews

551
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.480
because it hurts him. Yeah,
his father's not here no more, and

552
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:44.679
then he just it bothers him what
happened to me? So he he'd rather

553
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.280
not listened to his stuff. But
he's doing really good. Awesome and his

554
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:53.159
brothers are younger than him or are
y'all blended family? Two of his brothers

555
00:41:53.239 --> 00:42:00.400
are forty two and forty and then
the my old well, Danny's oldest,

556
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:06.039
which I kept play on his mind. He's forty eight and he's like my

557
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:10.920
best friend. Yeah, how wonderful, How wonderful. You've got all your

558
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.599
boys, and you've got your Danny. Yep, and you're telling your story

559
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:22.039
and a lot of people can't do
that. And you need to give yourself

560
00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:25.880
when you turn off this camera and
when you are done with me today,

561
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:32.440
I hope you walk around in the
fact that you said your peace and you're

562
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:37.239
doing you. You're everything that I
would hope for a victim, Honest to

563
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:42.000
God, You're living your life,
you're married, you have children, and

564
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.360
you didn't let it get you.
No. I let it give me for

565
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.239
a little while, and then I
had to say enough was enough, and

566
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.880
I came to Tennessee and met Danny
and straightened my life up. And I'm

567
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.800
so proud of you. If that's
worth anything. I know you don't know

568
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:00.559
me personally, but I'm rooting for
you. Thank you, and I know

569
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:06.360
my listeners are rooting for you.
Is there anything. Is there anything else?

570
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:08.039
Sorry, is there anything else you'd
like to say that while you've got

571
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:12.039
the floor. Yeah, I'm kind
of. One of the other things I'm

572
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:16.639
angry with Julia Bates's office is when
Nathaniel got out, they gave him a

573
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:22.079
car, they gave him money,
they gave him a place to stay,

574
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:28.920
They worked it all out with some
kind of organization to help him rebuild his

575
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:35.599
life. But meanwhile, me as
a survivor, doing the best I can

576
00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:39.079
do to get a car, to
make it to do things. But they

577
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:42.920
just he comes out, it's like
a pat on the back. You're out

578
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.320
now, you served your time,
and they gave them. You gave him

579
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:52.239
all that stuff, job, car, everything, and it's then they want

580
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:57.840
me to bring my insurance from Tennessee. But they're gonna help me. No.

581
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:02.320
There they're a joke. You know. You bring up a good point

582
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.239
too. So, like I told
you before, I work in I worked

583
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:14.480
in prison, and I was always
dumbfounded by the number of people. I

584
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:16.719
understand trying to see the best in
people. I do, trust me,

585
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:22.440
I do, and you want good
things, but some people are flat out

586
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:28.119
undeserving. They are flat out undeserving
and they play the game. And hope,

587
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:30.679
I hope my listeners will hear me
on this as someone who has worked

588
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:37.000
in a prison amongst the people like
Anthony and Nathaniel. And if you go

589
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:44.000
ask anyone worth their salt who's worked
or arrested or been in the field of

590
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:50.159
dealing with this type of facet of
person. They play a game that sound

591
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:55.199
good. People don't understand because they
smile in your face when you go in

592
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.920
there in your little church programs.
And I'm not down in church. I'm

593
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.559
a Christian and I love jes Christ. But when they smile in your face

594
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:05.079
when you go in there and you
go try to have church with them,

595
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.400
and they smile in your face whenever
you're over there, do it helping with

596
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:12.960
therapy programs, or when you're writing
cards and sending them to prison, or

597
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.000
I've seen people, you know,
drop off stuff at Christmas time to lift

598
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:21.199
their spirits. And then when you
leave the prison, and I'm telling you

599
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:24.199
now, anyone worth their salt will
back me up on this. When you

600
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:31.079
leave the prison, the facade drops
and they're back doing their games that they

601
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:37.159
play behind bars. They're back having
sex with each other behind bars. They're

602
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.199
back swindling single women who are outside
of the gate sending them money because they're

603
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:49.159
in love with the prisoner. They're
back playing these games. People don't change

604
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.840
like that. Someone who's willing to
put a knife a knife to a woman's

605
00:45:53.239 --> 00:46:01.719
throat and rape her and then watch
his brother follow up and rape her.

606
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:07.800
That is not you and me.
That is not the average Joe walking this

607
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:14.800
planet. That's an animal, and
animals need to be where animals belong in

608
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:21.960
cages. I agree, And you're
gonna give them a car, and you're

609
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:23.920
gonna try to help them rebuild their
life. Excuse my French, what fuck

610
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:30.039
your life? Dan? I want
to help you. I'm sorry. I

611
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.000
just I'm on a tangent right now
because I want to give you a car.

612
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.440
I want to give you some money
to go help buy your baby at

613
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:42.000
the time, a crib to sleep
in, and to upgrade your circumstances to

614
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.599
get you out of the area where
this type of stuff occurred. But we're

615
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:52.400
gonna, we're gonna feel sorry for
them, Danny to. We were all

616
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:54.599
in the room and Danny said,
just let us take them out for a

617
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.480
drink. Just give us five minutes
with them, and we'll take them for

618
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:01.320
a drink, and Julia said,
no, we're not going to go that

619
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:06.159
route. He said, why he
took advantage of my wife. He did

620
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.920
what he did, but we can't
have time with him. But you're giving

621
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.400
him a car and money and you're
doing everything for them, But what are

622
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:19.760
you doing for the ones that survive
nothing? This is not the twenty years

623
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:23.960
he got it made for the other
families been okay, me, I think

624
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.960
he should have been in there for
life, you know, now there was

625
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:31.400
of course he should look at all
the people they killed. Yep, there

626
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:37.159
was down. Yeah, don was
twelve. And did you ever hear their

627
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:44.079
reason for why they kidnapped Dawn?
They thought she was seventeen because that makes

628
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:50.239
it better. Yep, because she
was seventeen, they said that. They

629
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.800
asked why did she take her?
Because she was only twelve years old?

630
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:57.599
But we thought she was seventeen.
I don't care if she was eighty two.

631
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.519
They don't give nobody a reason to
do this, especially when they did

632
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:06.119
that child. You know, that's
the one I feel more. I instead

633
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.360
of feeling sorry for myself, I
feel more sorry for her. She never

634
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:14.039
got to go to prom, she
never got to have a boyfriend. She

635
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:16.719
never got to do the things an
adult did. And that poor thing was

636
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:23.199
tied up by chains for a week
and they continuously raped her, both of

637
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:28.559
them. No food, no water, no nothing. That's the one who

638
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.159
I feel I don't have time to
feel sorry for myself. I had time

639
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:35.679
to feel more sorry for that child
than I do anything, because I've got

640
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:40.519
grandchildren at age, and it matt
Man and her, and you know,

641
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:46.599
that little girl was thinking about her
mama and wanting her mama and begging these

642
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.599
animals to let her go, and
they did what they wanted to do.

643
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:57.199
They I just this case, and
I'm telling you this is why I focused

644
00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.719
on you specifically, because I know
there's a lot of victims. I do

645
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.039
and I want, but I just
feel like, you know, as a

646
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:10.440
victim, and that you should have
been given more. And I don't mean

647
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:17.360
stuff necessarily. I just mean they
got all of the grace, they got

648
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:24.760
all of the being heard and getting
to talk about it and getting just unbelievable.

649
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:29.719
Twenty years was not enough. Forty
years wouldn't have been enough, Eighty

650
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:32.280
years wouldn't have been enough. A
bullet would have been plenty for me,

651
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:37.280
or an electric chair would have been
fine. A firing squad would have been

652
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:39.639
great. And I know people get
mad at me for saying this, but

653
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:45.559
I really don't care. He put
it a knife to your throat. He

654
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:51.599
tried to end your life, your
gift of life. He tried to take

655
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:55.159
it from you. He did take
a twelve year old. He killed the

656
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.880
father. They killed the father correct
of of a girl and her boyfriend.

657
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:09.719
They killed people found in trunks,
people mining their own business, and we're

658
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:16.440
gonna give them twenty years. Unacceptable
on all levels. And I think the

659
00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:22.480
States should be ashamed of themselves,
just because the families of the other victims

660
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.119
and God bless them. And I'm
not talking ugly about them in any ways.

661
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:31.519
They have suffered as well. But
twenty year conviction. To me,

662
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:37.800
I've seen people put in prison for
marijuana, multiple marijuana, you know,

663
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:44.960
dealings longer than twenty years. They
killed a multitude of people. The States

664
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:52.039
should be ashamed. I agree.
It's like being raped all over again by

665
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:55.199
them. And I've got to a
point I don't care if they know it.

666
00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:00.880
In fact, I believe right after
all that went down, wrote Julia

667
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:05.199
Bates and told her I felt what
she did, and sudden and all this

668
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:09.559
never got a response, never emailed
me back and said I'm sorry. I

669
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:15.440
even give her my phone number.
Nothing. She don't care. She just

670
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:19.719
thinks she's got one more notch on
her belt, saying I put them behind

671
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:28.239
bars. She don't care about the
families. I don't know anything about her,

672
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.960
So I guess I. You know, I don't have thing to add

673
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:35.119
to it, but I will support
you because I think your feelings are validated.

674
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.039
I think that what you went through
no one should ever go through.

675
00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:44.239
And soil they ran my shoes.
They you know. They can't sit there

676
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:45.800
and say, well I would have
done this. No, you don't know

677
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:50.679
what you would have done, because
now, like I'll tell Danny, if

678
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:53.519
I think if I would have ran
home, nothing Meal would have caught me

679
00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:59.039
because I had to passed him,
and then they would have took us to

680
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:02.440
our house. And what were they
done to my son in front of us?

681
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.280
So you have to at the moment, you have to think what is

682
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:12.239
the best option, and you have
to go with it, even though you

683
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.400
suffer with it the rest of your
life. But you know your child is

684
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:17.800
safe. But the answer is this, and I have to tell you this.

685
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:21.880
The answer is you did the exact
thing you needed to do. You

686
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:27.119
did exactly what you needed to do
because you survived. You survived, your

687
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.239
son survived, and he had his
mama the rest of his life. There's

688
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:32.599
no way you can tell me you
didn't do exactly what you needed to do.

689
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:37.760
You shouldn't even suffer in that used
to me. Should walk with your

690
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.679
head up going guess what. Put
a knife to my throat, put a

691
00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:45.760
bullet through my body, rape me
twice. You can't stop me, and

692
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:53.000
you didn't stop me. Yep.
That's when Nathaniel or not Nathaniel and Tony

693
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:57.079
goes up for paroh in December.
I'm going to be there. I don't

694
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.199
care if I have to travel all
the way to Ohio. I will you

695
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.119
there, and this time it'll be
on. And I'm glad you brought that

696
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:07.599
up because we can close with this. I've got the link I pulled it

697
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.039
up to where if you have something
you would like to say against his release,

698
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:15.199
you're welcome to do that. Did
y'all know that? Listeners, you

699
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:21.599
are welcome to do that. And
I on behalf of missus Cheryl. I'm

700
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.519
gonna post that and I would love
for my listeners to go click it and

701
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:30.840
say exactly why you think he should
not be released, just based on the

702
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:35.440
facts and the things we've spoken about
today. Because miss Cheryl is your friend

703
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.280
and when you care about her.
Now, right now that we've gotten to

704
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.719
hear your story and get to know
you, I think anyone should has the

705
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.639
time to click the link and just
go put their thoughts in there of why

706
00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:50.320
he should not. And Honey,
we got thousands and thousands and thousands of

707
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.880
listeners. It takes five minutes.
Please do so on on this. I

708
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:59.440
want you to know I'm gonna do
my part. I got things to say

709
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:01.360
on there. I'm going to post
that link. I would be proud for

710
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:06.480
my listeners to go and to say
their piece and to do it just in

711
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:12.079
honor of you and your goodness and
your fighting spirit. And I want to

712
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.119
tell you thank you so very much
for coming on my show today's sharing your

713
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:21.679
most private and intimate struggles. That
means the world to me that you would

714
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:25.280
feel safe enough to come in here
and to talk about it. I want

715
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:30.159
to thank you for letting me say
the things that I've said on both of

716
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:36.360
those shows and they cut out.
It won't be cut here because it's that's

717
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:39.599
that feels like you're being defiled all
over again. They ask you what you

718
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:44.400
feel, you tell them, then
they cut it out. Why you're here

719
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.519
to tell the truth, tell the
truth and even the ugly, even the

720
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:51.960
ugly and the messy parts. So
you have you have my word. My

721
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:53.920
word is my bond. So you
have my word. And I'm looking you

722
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:57.760
in the eyes when I say it. We will not be cutting anything out.

723
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.079
Everything you have to say will be
really And I'm putting that link and

724
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:06.920
I hope that all of my listeners
will go in and say their piece for

725
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:09.320
you. Thanks. Normally, when
I end my episodes, I have a

726
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:14.280
mic drop moment that I say something
sassy. I'm not doing that today.

727
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:19.199
I just want to thank you so
much, like I said, for sharing

728
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:22.400
everything that you've shared with me today, to know that anyone else who's a

729
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:27.440
listener, and I do have a
lot of survivors of sexual violence that write

730
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:30.840
me often, I hope you listen
to this. I hope this can be

731
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:36.000
an encouragement to you that you can
make it and your feelings are valid,

732
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:44.440
and that there's never a day or
a moment or an outfit or a circumstance

733
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:50.320
that ever ever allows for someone to
do something like that to somebody else,

734
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.840
it's because they're animals. I agree. All right, until next time,

735
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:59.000
guys, thank you so much for
listening, mis Cheryl. I hope you

736
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:15.639
have a wonderful week and we'll catch
you all next time. Hm,