Nov. 13, 2024

Warning Signs: The Julie Greiner Trafficking Case

Warning Signs: The Julie Greiner Trafficking Case

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Season 6

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In this episode, KJ explores the disturbing true crime case of Julie Greiner, who allowed a predatory relationship to develop with 23-year-old Thomas Keskie and her young daughter. Kelly analyzes the complexities of their situation, focusing on Julie's financial reliance on Thomas and the alarming trip to Hawaii that ended in her daughter’s pregnancy.

Timestamps
08:36 Online Life
11:45 Suspicion Grows
13:07 Alex's Concern
14:39 Confrontation with Mom
15:50 Discovery of Sex Chat Apps
17:38 Alex's Dilemma
32:27 Hawaii Trip Adventure
40:15 Accusations Surface
49:23 Conversations Unraveled
01:00:27 A Mother's Failure

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable.

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Warning.

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Unspeakable is intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended,

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then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ,

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You're back for another episode of Unspeakable.

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How are you doing? What is up?

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I had a long day to day. I don't know why,

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but it was long. But I'm recording today on a Friday,

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and I know you're getting this on a Wednesday, but

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it's going to come into effect at the end of

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this episode of why I'm telling you it's a Friday.

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But before I get started, I have a little thing here.

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I wanted to tell y'all if you're a local, Even

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if you're not, I don't care, but if you're a local,

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know that on November the fourteenth, which is Thursday, I'm

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going to be doing a special presentation at Southside Junior

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High for the wonderful students there, and we're gonna be

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talking about phone safety and internet safety. So if you

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have a child that goes there, or if you don't,

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I don't know, call them up. Maybe they'll just let

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people come listen. But I'm going to give a pretty

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good presentation there, and if that's something you're interested in,

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check it out. They're going to be promoting it and

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I'll be happy to meet you there. I'll be there

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with some merch and stuff too if that If that

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tickles your fancy. If not, no worries, don't worry about it.

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But I've got some.

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Shout outs before I start the episode, and this one

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tickled me. This is out of Youngsville, Louisiana too, so

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it's a local person. But this person signed up on

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my Patreon as Special Agent PNP, and I feel like that.

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Deserves a pretty solid shout out.

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So Special Agent, I salute you, thank you for all

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that you do, and thank you so much as always

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for supporting me. I've then got Dane shadowed ins from Sanger, California.

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What is up, Dane. I am making it a point

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to get out to California. I want to come this summer.

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I may do it, but this summer I really want

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to go to California. I want to check it out

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and see what all the fuss is about because I've

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never been there. Then out in Texas, you know, I

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love my Texas people. I've got Sues Burnett, What up, sus?

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How are things over in Texas? I hope they're going

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well for you. And then in Shyenne, Wyoming, Miss Brenda Shaver, Hi,

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Miss Brenda, I think I've spoken to you a few

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times too on the internet at some point somewhere, somehow

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I believe I did, so.

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I hope you're doing well out there in Wyoming.

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And then last, but not least, is Miss Jerry Jensen

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in Wasseca, Minnesota. Minnesota. Oh my goodness, I've got y'all

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all over the country, Miss Jerry. I hope that you're

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doing well. You people make my world go round for

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all the support you give me, and as usual, but

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not with any less, you know, celebration. I want to

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tell you thank you so very much from the bottom

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of my heart for your support and it means so

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much to me now as many of us that listen

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to this podcast. Know, being a parent, it's the most

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important job on the planet. It's the one job that

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you don't get paid for. You're underpaid, you're overworked. But

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it's a job that you never leave to a stranger.

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It's the job that only you can do. And no

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matter you know what your your belief system is. I

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think that all of our children, you know, are destined

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to be our children. God knows what we can do

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for our kids and what they can do for us, right,

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and so they are very precious commodities in our lives.

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And something else that to that point I'd like to

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make is that being a sibling is an underrated job.

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You fight with your siblings most of the time. I know,

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me and my sister, man, we have gotten into some fights.

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We cut each other the deepest when we get mad too,

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but it's clear, crystal clear in our household. We may

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be bitching and moaning and fighting back and forth, but

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don't ever get it twisted that I will also be

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her number one defender if someone outside of my family

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tries to mess with my family. It's just the unspoken rule.

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And if you have siblings, you know what I'm talking about.

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That's your sibling, and no one else gets to get

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close to your sibling. This relationship. It's especially special too,

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between a big brother and a little sister. That's a

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dynamic that is very special when you have to take

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care of your little sister and love her and kind

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of guide her as her older brother. With that in mind,

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come with me to Jefferson County, Colorado, and this was

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the home of Julie Greneer, her son Alex. She had

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a younger son than Alex. I'm gonna call him Mikey.

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Mikey is not his real name, but because he's a miner,

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I'm gonna just call him Mikey. And then the two

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brothers had an even younger sister, which I'm gonna call

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her Amy for this episode, but again that's not her

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real name, and I'm not using them because these are miners,

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and you know, we want to keep our miners' names.

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We want to keep them out of it. Now. Julie,

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their mother.

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Julie was born in nineteen seventy two, and she was

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in her forties when this was taking place.

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And she's a pretty woman.

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She's got dark brown, almost black hair, she's got really

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big pretty eyes. She from what I can tell was

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a happy but single woman. I did not find a

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male figure in the household at all, so it seemed

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to be Julie and her three children. Now, the reason

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I'm saying what I found is I did some Internet

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sleuthing based on photos that I had, and I did

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some cross referencing and some searching, and that's how I

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landed upon some of the things that I found out,

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and based on the photos that I saw of her,

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I do feel like she's a pretty liberal minded person.

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She seems like she likes to have fun, and she

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liked to surround herself with friends, and she liked to

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be around her family. I did not see any employment information,

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which will make sense in this story because Julie's financial

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status was a hot ass mess and this family was

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unstable financially at best. Okay, matter of fact, Julie struggled

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day to day, it seemed like, financially and usually paid

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like the light bill by scraping by. And how she

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got her money I don't know, because I did not

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employment status. Finances seem to be the biggest stressor in

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the household, and even her children were aware of this

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financial strain. So that's how big of a deal. It

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was now her son Alex. He was the oldest and

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he was older than Amy by years. There was a

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gap between them, and I did find him too through

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some internet slew thing. And I'm gonna tell you he's

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a handsome guy. He's a handsome fella, good natured. I

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would say that he's artistic.

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And all around. From all the.

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Research that I did, all around, he seems like a

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decent good person. The daughter Amy when this story is

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going on, was twelve years old, so Alex is older.

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Alex is like seventeen eighteen. Amy is twelve and Amy again,

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based on the research that I did, she looks like

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her mama. And I'm not gonna take anything away. I'm

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telling you they are pretty. She looked just like her mama.

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That dark hair, there's big pretty eyes. She was tan,

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she was a pretty girl. And together their family life

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mimicked most of ours. Me most of the people that

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are listening to this show just day to day interactions,

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hugs while passing in the hallway, doing the best to

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live your life. Other than I am overly employed and

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my family's employed. But for the most part, it seems

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like your average family family life and the siblings had

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typical sibling relationships love hate at that age, and that

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age gap getting on each other's nerves is common. But

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they loved each other and there was love in this family.

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And like most kids, twelve year old Amy used social media. Now,

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something worrisome about social media that we all know about

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is that young people may overshare online and that's something

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that we have to be very vigilant of as parents

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of young people growing up in a digital world. Amy

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wasn't stupid, though, and even at twelve years old, she

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kind of vetted who she spoke to. And I wasn't

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surprised by this because I did find out that Amy

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had been sexually abused by her father in the past

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and was pretty guarded. As a result of that, she

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did search for outlets about this abuse and she found

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peace through an app that she downloaded in the month

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of September. And this is an app where you could

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talk to people and it was supposed to be a

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judgment free zone and the truth be told. When she

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downloaded this app, Amy was feeling really depressed. She was

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very sad, and she connected with another young teen and

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they developed a bond on a deep level because he

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too had been abused, and they found a lot of

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support in one another. He was young like her. He

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was fifteen, so he was a few years older than her,

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but they got along really well and had so many

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things in common. The teen's name was Thomas Kesky, and

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they had been talking now that this story is coming about,

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for about six months and they were really able to

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confide in one another. Now twelve and fifteen, that was

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too big of a gap as far as big brother

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Alex was concerned, but he didn't try to overthink it,

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considering he realized or found out through Amy that Thomas

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lived in Australia, so he was halfway around the world

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and shout out to my Australia listeners. I know I've

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got y'all out there, and I love y'all so much.

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Y'all are so cool. Now he w wasn't overthinking it,

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like I said, He kind of was of the mindset

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of this is just another friend that is eventually going

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to drop off over time. Anyway, It's an online friend, Like,

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how serious could that be? Thomas and Amy had a

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lot of communication though they were communicating through I Message, FaceTime, Facebook.

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Multiple avenues of communication between these two teens. But this

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friendship also continued much which longer than Alex the older brother,

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expected that it would. It would stay alive. Not only that,

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but they had become so close that Thomas started mailing

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gifts to his twelve year old sister. This was a

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bit much for Alex. I mean, kids who are flirting

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and talking on the phone, but you know whatever, but

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like you're mailing gifts. It just seemed a bit much.

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She's twelve, you know. And so he sent a necklace

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to her, and he even had wired money to her.

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But it wasn't like it was going straight to Amy.

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It would had to go into their mother's bank account

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because Amy was a minor and she didn't have an account.

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Of her own.

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So her mom did have eyes on the situation and

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what was going on. But there were some other things

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that were happening in Alex's life that at best he

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would just describe as off. It just didn't sit right

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with him, considering the financial woes facing his mother, Julie.

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Alex did find it extremely interesting that his mother and

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his little sister were planning to make a trip to

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Hawaii together, Like, how does that even fit into your schedule?

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When you can't even pay your light bill. I mean

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just the previous month. The month of October, finances were

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so bad that no bills were able to be paid,

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and Julie was tripping. She's like, I don't know I'm gonna

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pay these bills. I don't have any money. But somehow

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she was able to again straight by and get the

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money in so that they weren't gonna be evicted from

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the house that they were living in. And he knew

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that his mom was also under a ton of stress

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because of this, but he had something that he had

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to tell her. He didn't want to add to her stress,

224
00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.720
but this wasn't something he wanted to not bring up.

225
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.840
It was bothering Alex really deep down inside. One day

226
00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:03.279
in November, Amy and Tom were facetiming on her phone

227
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.639
and Alex caught a glimpse of Thomas while they were facetiming,

228
00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:13.679
and to Alex's surprise, he looked older than fifteen. Alex

229
00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:17.600
was so concerned by the way that Thomas looked that

230
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:19.519
he even ran to his mom and was like, you

231
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.120
need to go check this out. Have you seen him?

232
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.559
This is sus suspicious as.

233
00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.279
I'll get out. He looks way too old, and.

234
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.200
He was like, you know, I don't think that they

235
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.399
should really be communicating with each other anymore.

236
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:34.399
This is bizarre.

237
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.360
I don't know what a fifteen year old or supposed

238
00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:40.440
fifteen year old sees in my sister who's twelve, and

239
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.919
why they are talking so much. But to Alex's surprise,

240
00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.039
Julie acted as if she already knew that Thomas was

241
00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:51.960
actually a little bit older than Alex originally thought that

242
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.559
he was, so Alex got kind of irritated and he

243
00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.039
confronted his mom and a demanded an answer and was like, Mom,

244
00:13:59.200 --> 00:13:59.799
do you know.

245
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:00.840
How how old he is?

246
00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:01.000
Like?

247
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.120
How old is this guy?

248
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:06.000
And Julie turned around and matter of factly said, yes, son,

249
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:11.879
I do He's your age. So completely flabbergasted by the

250
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.200
age difference because now he realizes that Thomas is seventeen

251
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.919
and his sister is twelve. That's a high school senior

252
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.759
and a seventh grader. To put it into perspective, what

253
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.159
in the world. He's so just outraged by this. Alex

254
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.200
immediately became defensive and starts yelling at his mom and

255
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.559
is like, you have got to stop this, and now

256
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:40.879
they cannot be communicating she's too young. It's gross. Why

257
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:44.600
on the hell would you let this go on. So

258
00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.679
Julie says, Okay, you need to calm down. I've spoken

259
00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:53.480
to Thomas. Julie said, they are just friends. They are

260
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:57.039
just kind of leaning on one another. It is not sexual, Alex,

261
00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:58.519
and you need to calm down.

262
00:14:59.080 --> 00:14:59.879
You are o.

263
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.200
We're reacting and you don't know what your sister has

264
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.120
been dealing with, so you need to step off. So

265
00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.399
Alex is like, okay, well, if that's the case, then

266
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.840
let's get her phone. Maybe we should go through her

267
00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.000
messages and see what they're about. And Alex and Julie

268
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:16.679
kind of go back and forth and back and forth

269
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.360
about going through the phone, and finally she says, okay, Son, fine,

270
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.720
we will. We'll go through the phone. But it didn't

271
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:30.120
happen immediately. Well, shortly thereafter that conversation, Alex accidentally broke

272
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.000
his own cell phone and he needed one to use temporarily,

273
00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.120
so for a brief minute, he began using Amy's cell

274
00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.840
phone until his new one came in. And looking in

275
00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.440
the phone, he himself did not find anything crazy, like,

276
00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:46.279
he didn't see any nudes or anything of that nature,

277
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.759
and so for a moment he kind of realized, Okay,

278
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:51.720
maybe I was overreacting a little bit, Maybe I do

279
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:52.559
need to calm down.

280
00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:53.320
But that was.

281
00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:57.320
Until he started searching through her apps on the phone

282
00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:01.720
and he found multiple apps that were sex chat apps.

283
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.960
And remember Amy is twelve. We're talking about a middle

284
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.000
schooler here. So when he found those sex chat apps,

285
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.240
he jumped up and ran immediately to his mother's room,

286
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:14.600
and she was asleep. Whenever he ran in there. He

287
00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.000
woke her up and said, oh my god, look what

288
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.360
is on her phone. Look at this, there's sex chat apps.

289
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:25.320
But Julie was asleep, and he did stir her momentarily

290
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:27.679
enough that she sat up and listened to what he

291
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.159
had to say. But then she kind of said, oh, okay,

292
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.080
all right, all right, I'll look at it, and then

293
00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:33.919
she laid back down and went to sleep. Doing a

294
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:39.879
whole bunch of nothing. Putting myself in her shoes. All

295
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:41.799
I can say is there would have been fire behind

296
00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:43.840
my ass. I would have been running so fast to

297
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.240
snatch that little girl up and get some answers on

298
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.440
what is going on here, and then I would have

299
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.639
been on a plane to Australia to go box in

300
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.840
somebody's ears when I found out that there were sex

301
00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:56.039
chat apps on this phone.

302
00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:57.440
But I'm not Julie.

303
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:01.720
Nothing that Amy could have said, by the way, would

304
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.880
have been good enough in this situation. But going back

305
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.039
to sleep is not anything that I think would be

306
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.440
near the response that would come from me. But Alex

307
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.839
wasn't the parent, and he was doing what he thought

308
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.279
was best to protect his sister. But at the end

309
00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.200
of the day, Julie was the mom, and Julie had

310
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.839
to be the mom. So in the days and weeks

311
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.400
to come, it seemed though to Alex that maybe Julie

312
00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.240
did go have a discussion with Amy at length, because

313
00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.440
Alex noticed that he did not ever see his little

314
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.319
sister on the phone as much as he was before,

315
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:36.519
and he had gotten a new cell phone by then,

316
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.799
so Amy had her cell phone back. He also didn't

317
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.119
mean to get his sister in trouble. He just wanted

318
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.519
this teenage boy to leave his little sister alone, and

319
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.240
he was too damn old to be talking to her,

320
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.839
and I think any brother would have been frustrated. Amy, though,

321
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.960
felt that Thomas was extremely helpful to her. He understood her,

322
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.279
and when I say understood her, things like he would

323
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.119
check in on her. He would make sure, hey, did

324
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.039
you eat today? Are you brushing your teeth? He kind

325
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.720
of was coaching her and saying things like, you've got

326
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.200
to take care of yourself. You're not going to succeed

327
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.960
in life if you're depressed and you're not taking care

328
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.319
of yourself, then you're just gonna spiral out of control.

329
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.920
And he was being really encouraging to her, and she

330
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.599
didn't know why he cared so much, but the fact

331
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.000
was he was consistent and he did continuously try to

332
00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:26.799
build her up and make her feel better about about herself.

333
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.440
But there was something that would happen a week or

334
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.880
so later that would have Alex even more alarmed once

335
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:38.119
he realized what he had seen. Now, Amy was twelve,

336
00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.039
and she wasn't little anymore.

337
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:41.839
Now to a.

338
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:43.839
Forty year old woman, of course, she's a little bitty kid,

339
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.559
but to her seventeen year old brother, she felt like

340
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:50.400
she was getting old and she wanted her privacy. Now

341
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.799
she was twelve years old, and this was understandable because

342
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.680
she was a growing lady. She was growing into a

343
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.559
young lady, and so there were just certain things that

344
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:05.039
aren't allowed to do anymore. For example, Alex walked into

345
00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.359
her bedroom unannounced to ask her something one day, and

346
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.839
she got really upset. And although it was a very

347
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.160
brief second that Alex saw her when he opened the door,

348
00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:17.440
he could tell a couple of things. Just in those

349
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.200
couple of seconds, he could tell number one, that she

350
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:25.640
was completely undressed, and number two, she had to grab

351
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.000
a blanket to cover herself. Okay, well, that in and

352
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.119
of itself is not alarming to me. She's a little

353
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.480
girl and she doesn't want her brother seeing her naked,

354
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.960
so she just grabs something to cover herself up, and

355
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.039
I find that to be completely appropriate. She then jumped

356
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.160
up and she slammed the door on him and said,

357
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.880
you need to knock first. You don't just bust up

358
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:49.720
in my bedroom. Have a little decency. So while this

359
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.440
response seems completely normal, I mean, you should knock right

360
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:53.920
a little.

361
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.240
A brother shouldn't be.

362
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.400
Just walking in on his little sister at that age.

363
00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.000
But it's what Alex saw beyond his sister that had

364
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.920
him most uneasy. She had her phone on and it

365
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.720
was like resting on the counter, and she was facetiming,

366
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.559
and it was a man's face that she saw on

367
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.880
the screen. So when she slammed the door in his face,

368
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.400
he thought for a moment whether he had seen what

369
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.519
he thought he saw, and he knew he did, there

370
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.400
was no question, but he was trying to think through this,

371
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.119
like why would my sister not be dressed and be

372
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:35.279
facetiming a man again. He ran to their mother's room

373
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.599
and said, mom, oh my god, wake up again. Julie

374
00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.200
was asleep, and when he woke her up, he was

375
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.640
completely freaking out about this man was on the phone

376
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.039
with her and she was not dressed, and Julie shushed

377
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:53.720
him and went back to sleep. So certainly all of

378
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:55.319
us now that are listening to this are kind of

379
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.200
wide eyed now, going like, what the fuck is wrong

380
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:57.400
with you?

381
00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:57.799
Lady?

382
00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:01.839
You know, but I'll give her this. We don't all

383
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.279
have the same instincts or parenting styles. Maybe Julie preferred

384
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.920
that her son stay out of his sister's problems or

385
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:14.759
something along that nature, But whatever her thoughts were, she

386
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:18.960
wasn't communicating that with Alex, and Alex was fuming by now.

387
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.440
And as if this wasn't alarming enough, his mother's lack

388
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.359
of alarm really had Alex just in the throes of frustration,

389
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:31.160
and he didn't hold back any OF's anger towards her

390
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:37.480
about not taking him seriously. He was becoming very what's

391
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.279
the word I'm looking for, very animated and almost aggressive

392
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.640
towards his mom because she was not seeming to take

393
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:51.079
his warnings about what was happening very seriously. So Julie, then,

394
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.480
like I told you, responded by what was going on,

395
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.440
apparently by booking a trip to Hawaii with Amy. And

396
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.200
so this was just one month later from all of that.

397
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.400
It was Inanuary, and she's been scraping by on bills.

398
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.039
So Alex is like, what is going on? Is my

399
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:07.839
mom having a midlife crisis?

400
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:09.480
You know? Is she in denial?

401
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.839
And is she trying to maybe baby Amy because she

402
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.279
had some trauma in her history and she's acting out.

403
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.640
And Mom's not, you know, being as tough as she

404
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:19.079
should be.

405
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.960
You know, he's really mulling all of this over in

406
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.839
his mind, trying to figure it out. But whatever the case,

407
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:26.279
Alex decided, Okay, well, there's some things I can control

408
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.279
and some things I can't. But one thing I can

409
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:31.160
do is that I can search out this Tom you know,

410
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:32.440
this Thomas character.

411
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.319
And kind of figure out who he is.

412
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.599
So Alex jumps on the computer and he started with

413
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.240
none other than Facebook. That's what a lot of us

414
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.799
folks do, especially in my age group, right, us four

415
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.480
year olds. We're gonna do some sleuthing on the Facebook.

416
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.119
And he was able to track down Thomas and it

417
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:52.319
was really Thomas, and he point blank asked him in

418
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.079
a message, do you know how old my sister is?

419
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.079
And Thomas responded yes, she's twelve. And Alex then and

420
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.960
asked him how old are you? But Alex wouldn't respond.

421
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.839
He only said, and this is a direct quote, old enough,

422
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.640
and he said, you need to chill out. I'm not

423
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:13.480
some pervert, child molester or anything like that. I'm just

424
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.200
your sister's friend. You're being ridiculous, you know, searching me

425
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.079
out online. So Alex was pretty direct and firm with

426
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:24.599
him and basically issued an ultimatum to him, either you

427
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.240
will cut off all contact with my sister or I'm

428
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.079
going to call the police and let them know that

429
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.160
as seventeen year old is trying to communicate with a

430
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:38.319
twelve year old. Either cut it off or I'm gonna

431
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.400
I'm going to do something about it. Well, this was

432
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.599
enough for Thomas to hear, and even at seventeen years old,

433
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.480
he knew he shouldn't play around with this, that that's

434
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.920
something that he didn't want to deal with. And so

435
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.039
he said, okay, fine, fine, fine, I don't want any trouble.

436
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.440
I won't talk to your sister anymore, and they finished

437
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.680
the conversation. Alex felt really good about the conversation too.

438
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.400
He said, even in the days to come, things were

439
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.160
looking up, you know, and that his sister seemed happy

440
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:05.759
and fine, and that he had probably scared off this

441
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.880
guy from Australia. Something about the household, though, that I'll

442
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:13.039
bring up, was that it operated differently than say, like

443
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:14.880
my own. And I'm not saying I'm any better, I'm

444
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.599
just saying different, Okay. For example, Julie allowed her kids

445
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:21.279
to have access to the bank account, almost like it

446
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:23.680
was a family bank account. My kids are not going

447
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.720
to have access to my bank account. I know this though,

448
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.799
because younger brother Mikey, remember there was that middle sibling.

449
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:34.319
Younger brother Mikey was expecting some money. I'm not sure

450
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.039
what that money was for, but he was expecting some

451
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.400
money that was supposed to be auto deposited into Julie's

452
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.039
account that said Mikey was monitoring the bank account and

453
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.240
like feverishly want to know when his money hit because

454
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.720
he wanted to go buy whatever it is he wanted

455
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.079
to buy. And when he checked one of these days,

456
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.720
there was a deposit of seven hundred and fifty dollars

457
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:58.400
into the family account. So Mikey wanted to know, Mama,

458
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.279
is that my money or is that not? What is

459
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.000
that money that came in? And it turned out it

460
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.559
wasn't his money. So Alex, hearing the conversation, was curious

461
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.119
about where the money came from. Where did you get

462
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:13.000
seven hundred and fifty dollars? So he questioned his mom

463
00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:16.000
and it took her a little while to be honest

464
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.519
with him, but then she finally admitted, Okay, Well, I

465
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.720
was so desperate I called Thomas and I asked him

466
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:27.599
if he could help me with our cable bill, which,

467
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.799
regardless of whatever Alex thought, I'm kind of here going

468
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:32.839
cable bill. Who in the hell has a seven hundred

469
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.359
and fifty dollars cable bill? Jesus, what are y'all watching?

470
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.799
So Alex then asked his little sister about this and said,

471
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:46.160
why is Thomas sending mom money to pay our cable bill,

472
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:49.519
and Amy said, I don't know anything about what you're

473
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.640
talking about. I don't know about any money that was transferred.

474
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.799
So Alex and myself included, are kind of going, why

475
00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:59.039
would a seventeen year old have that kind of money

476
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:01.680
A and B Why would he be willing to share

477
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.599
it with a stranger halfway around the world just because she.

478
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:06.440
Asked for it.

479
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:12.160
But it did seem like Thomas had the money. For

480
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:17.079
Christmas that December, he sent some pretty lavish gifts for

481
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.039
a twelve year old and they came in from the mail.

482
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.519
There's no question that this happened, and they were sent

483
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:24.200
from Thomas to Amy. He sent things like a brand

484
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:29.279
new iPhone, a diamond necklace, a ring, some book collections

485
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:33.359
that she had wanted to read. And this again seemed

486
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.480
really over the top in Alex's point of view, but

487
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:37.880
Julie wasn't alarmed.

488
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.440
She says, you know, Thomas was just like this.

489
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.720
I mean, even in the last thirty days or so,

490
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:48.640
he had sent Julie twenty five hundred dollars to help

491
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.039
her pay her rent and her electricity bill. And this

492
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.119
seems all good, and all of that and it seems

493
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:58.519
too good to be true, but it was true because

494
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.400
Julie was paying bills out of this bank account with

495
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:02.079
this money.

496
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:06.039
So Alex, seventeen year old Alex, is like, this is

497
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:06.799
weird as hell.

498
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.799
I don't know. I don't have that kind of money,

499
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:11.240
you know, as a kid. He's like, I don't have

500
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.440
that kind of money. Why does this guy have this

501
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.599
kind of money? And why is he willing to just

502
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.400
share it with you? This just seems like.

503
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:19.240
A lot of money, a lot of gifts, a lot

504
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.680
of kindness.

505
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.400
You know. Well, a couple of days later, Alex then

506
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.000
got winn that Thomas was going to be coming to

507
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.319
the US and he was planning to come and visit

508
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:36.440
Amy at their house. So Alex flipped out and was like,

509
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:38.960
this is not happening. He goes nuts in the house.

510
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:42.640
So he's freaking out on his mom and he's like,

511
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.960
you're gonna let this complete stranger come to our country

512
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.839
and then come stay in our house with my little sister?

513
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:55.200
Are you nuts? And Julie calmly, she wasn't even upset.

514
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.640
She said, you've got to calm down. Amy and Thomas

515
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:02.200
have been friends, been friends for six eight months, now

516
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.279
he's helped us out financially. He is a good guy.

517
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.480
He's not done anything to you, and you need to

518
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:14.519
calm down. And that's when Amy broke the news as

519
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:24.079
well that Thomas wasn't actually seventeen now he's actually twenty one.

520
00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:30.240
But Julie, when she found this out, didn't panic. Julie

521
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.240
told Amy, well, listen, wow, I thought he was fifteen

522
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:39.319
and now he's seventeen. Okay, now he's twenty one. But

523
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:45.160
you know what, Amy, age isn't everything, and he can

524
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.319
be kind to you. There's nothing wrong with him being

525
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.720
kind to you. And that's when Julie sat Amy down

526
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.759
and she told the story about the student and teacher

527
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.519
that had a relationship years ago and then the teacher

528
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.039
of the female teacher ended up going to jail because

529
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:06.119
of the inappropriate relationship, but they ended up still getting married,

530
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.000
and so age isn't everything.

531
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:12.640
I know, you're probably easy.

532
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:14.480
If you're driving in traffic right now, you're probably slamming

533
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.480
on your brakes freaking out.

534
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:16.920
Okay, but calm down.

535
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.119
But that's what Julie did. She told her little girl

536
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.960
that age isn't everything. So Alex is shooting to the

537
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:26.519
moon at this point stroking out at this idea, and

538
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:29.119
he made such a big deal that Julie was like,

539
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.799
you know what, you know what, I'm not even I'm

540
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:39.839
not even dealing with this. Everybody separate, and the drama

541
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.799
kind of died down. Regardless of the drama at the house.

542
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.240
A few days later, in January, Julie made good on

543
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:49.559
her Hawaii trip promise and she and Amy set out

544
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:53.400
on their girls trip. Twelve year old Amy and her

545
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.119
mom Julie, jumped on a plane and they were off

546
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.160
to have the vacation of a lifetime. Now, Alex didn't

547
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.960
go on this trip a girl's trip, but he also

548
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:06.200
wasn't aware of something. He wasn't aware that before they

549
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.759
actually made it to Hawaii, his mother and his sister

550
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.119
were going to be making a stop in Colorado. Well

551
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.880
what was in Colorado? It turns out, unbeknownst to Alex,

552
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:23.000
that Julie had spoken to Thomas and they decided that

553
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.799
on January sixteenth they would all meet in real life

554
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.640
at the Hyatt in Cherry Creek, and they followed through

555
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.759
with those plans. Thomas and his mother flew in and

556
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.759
Julie and Amy drove together and they all met up

557
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:40.000
at the hotel.

558
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.240
Now, during this time.

559
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:51.920
Julie already knew that Thomas was twenty one. But while

560
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:58.480
they're driving, twelve year old Amy drops another bombshell, Mom,

561
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.279
I think you need to know that Thomas isn't actually

562
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:10.359
twenty one, he's twenty three. And Julie did what we

563
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:14.359
all would do, and she kept driving straight through to

564
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:19.400
the hotel. Yeah right, okay, none of us in our

565
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.319
right minds would do that, but Julie did because she said,

566
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:25.039
Thomas is a good guy and we're just going to go.

567
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.960
They were all going to be staying the night at

568
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:29.640
the hotel to do a little meet and greet in

569
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.240
real life, and then head out to Hawaii the next

570
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.480
day together. So they met up at the hotel, and

571
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.440
that's when Julie realized that there were only two beds

572
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.880
in the hotel room and there was no room for

573
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:46.319
her to stay. So again she did, like I like

574
00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:48.200
to say, what any of us would do, and she

575
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:54.640
left her twelve year old daughter there. Julie left to

576
00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:58.559
go visit a friend and stayed with a friend, while Amy,

577
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:02.640
twelve year old Amy stayed with twenty three year old

578
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:07.000
Thomas and his mom in a hotel room, people she

579
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:11.200
had never met in real life. All went well, though,

580
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:14.359
and the next morning they all headed out for Hawaii.

581
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.279
And this is even better.

582
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.400
Thomas was kind enough to pay for everything for everyone

583
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.720
on this trip. It was like a fairy tale, a

584
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:26.839
dream come true. They could never have afforded this on

585
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.880
their own. Julie was unemployed, barely making ends meet. And

586
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.359
Thomas not only bought the flight tickets, he bought the hotel,

587
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:41.319
He bought everything. One thing that did seem to surprise Amy, though,

588
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:46.000
was the flying arrangements. So Thomas had bought the tickets

589
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:50.200
and he purchased all of them. But something happened because

590
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.799
they weren't all able to fly together. Matter of fact,

591
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.319
on the flight to Hawaii, Amy and Thomas flew together

592
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.079
on you know, airlines, while both of the moms flew

593
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:08.039
on American airlines. They didn't even fly on the same plane.

594
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:10.599
But Julie's like, oh, well, we're all going to the

595
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.359
same place. We're all gonna meet there and land in

596
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:14.720
the same place anyway, so it doesn't really matter. And

597
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.519
once they got into Hawaii, they did all sorts of

598
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:20.319
fun things. They rented a car, they drove around, they

599
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:24.119
went shopping, they got hats and sunglasses. They ate at

600
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:26.839
all the restaurants. Matter of fact, Thomas's mom is the

601
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.079
one who paid for the food for everyone while they

602
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:33.880
were on their vacation. Amy even overheard her mom, Julie, though,

603
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.960
promising to pay them back one day if she found

604
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:41.000
a job. They were all just really thankful for this

605
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:47.200
experience and getting to travel. But strangely, again, the Hawaii

606
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:52.960
resort that they booked only had one bedroom. Must have

607
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:59.160
been an oversight, so Julie and Thomas's mom shared the

608
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.640
bed in the bedroom, while twenty three year old Thomas

609
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:07.880
and twelve year old Amy shared the pullout couch up

610
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.440
in the living room. The trip was a blast though.

611
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.280
They had a great time and then they all had

612
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.960
to head home when the plane touched down or should

613
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.559
I say planes? Why kell are you making that differentiation

614
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.159
because Julie and Amy flew back separately on different flights

615
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.280
from Hawaii. Like the twelve year old flew alone back

616
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.639
from Hawaii and her mother flew back on a different flight,

617
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.480
you would have to they ain't no way I would

618
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.400
swim back with my kid before I'm gonna separate her

619
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:43.239
on a plane. That's insane. We would stay together, but

620
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.440
Julie doesn't seem like she's gonna win Mother of the Year.

621
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.360
So when they got back, it was back to life

622
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:51.559
as they knew it. And this also included meeting up

623
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.119
with their son, her son, Alex, And this date was

624
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:59.599
January twenty fifth when they got home, and on that

625
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:01.719
date a nine to one one call was made from

626
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:04.880
the house and it was Julie calling telling them I

627
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.800
need help. My son is going ballistic and I fear

628
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.039
for our safety. Me and my younger daughter are in danger.

629
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:15.159
Please get here quick. So the police come flying up

630
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.960
and they start asking questions and Amy says, look, my

631
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.719
son's been acting very angry lately. Alex was really upset

632
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.360
about finding out how old this guy was. Well, what

633
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.039
had happened before they even went to Hawaii is that

634
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:34.039
Alex directly asked his mother about how old Thomas was,

635
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.480
and she told him the truth up to that point,

636
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.920
that he was twenty one. And Alex did what any

637
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.239
brother would do. He ran upstairs and tried to rip

638
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.480
the door off the damn hinges freaking out, and so

639
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.000
Amy ran and hid in the bathroom and she said,

640
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:48.599
and I just kind of stopped talking to my brother

641
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:52.079
as much after that, and then shortly thereafter that's whenever

642
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:57.119
we went to Hawaii with Thomas. And everyone's like, wait, what,

643
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.920
that's when Thomas and you talked about going to Hawaii

644
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.559
and then y'all went to Hawaii.

645
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.199
That doesn't make sense.

646
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.280
I thought your mom had planned this Hawaii trip And

647
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.360
Amy's like, no, Thomas had said we should go to Hawaii.

648
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.480
So this was Thomas's idea And Amy says, yes, both

649
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.280
she and her mom were going through a very stressful

650
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.400
time and Thomas had offered this trip because he said

651
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:26.920
it would help both of them to kind of get

652
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:30.960
away and relax. So when asked about the relationship between

653
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:35.280
her and Thomas changing, like when did this become a relationship,

654
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.119
she said it did kind of after her mom had

655
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:43.239
had money problems and she started getting money and gifts

656
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.519
from Thomas, and then it kind of was alleviating some

657
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.800
of the problems at the house. And she also said

658
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:53.159
that Thomas and her mother had spoken privately about her

659
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:56.159
money problems and they decided, but just between the two

660
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.519
of them, that he would help her with the bills

661
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:00.440
and rent. Amy didn't really have much to do with

662
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.920
that so basically, he sent money to Julie and then

663
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.280
Thomas sent a phone around the same time to Amy

664
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:12.360
so that she could use the phone to contact him.

665
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:14.960
And so you're like, well, why would this twelve year

666
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.559
old need a phone, you know? And that phone was

667
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:22.000
sent to her under the guys that it could keep

668
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:25.719
her safe from her brother Alex if he could be

669
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:29.039
if Thomas could stay in contact with her since her

670
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.559
brother was acting crazy. So it's like, let me get

671
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:34.360
this straight. You met a guy online in a help

672
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:38.480
site for depression. He's fifteen years old, y'all start talking,

673
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.880
then he's seventeen, then he's actually twenty one, Okay, well

674
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:45.480
actually now he's twenty three. And your mom knew this

675
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:50.599
the whole time, and Amy says yes, And then he

676
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:53.400
starts sending your mom lots of money and you get

677
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.719
a phone and you're getting gifts from this same guy

678
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.440
where y'all are facetiming and talking all the time, and

679
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.960
Amy says yes. So was there any contact, like any

680
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.079
sexual contact between you and Thomas? Amy goes, oh, no, no, no, no,

681
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:13.000
no no. So then the police did some questioning of Julie.

682
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.480
They said, Julie, do you know how old Thomas is

683
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:20.800
and she says, no, I don't know how old he is. Julie,

684
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.440
do you know that she was sending photos of herself

685
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.119
to Thomas? And Julie says no, she wasn't doing that.

686
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:31.320
Police said, well, did Thomas send you money and gifts

687
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:33.840
or Amy money and gifts? And she says, yeah, he

688
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:38.920
was sending stuff and that's when the police let her know. So,

689
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.079
from what we gather, it's approximately ten thousand dollars worth

690
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:51.199
of money that he has sent you. And she agrees, yeah,

691
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.039
he sent me some money. So did you ever see

692
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:57.840
your daughter acting sexually with Thomas? And she's like, no,

693
00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.480
not really. I mean they did hold hands in Hawaii

694
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.280
and play foot see, and they did wrestle around with

695
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.239
each other. She did kiss him on the cheek, but

696
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:09.639
I didn't see anything sexual. Okay, Julie, did you talk

697
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:11.960
to Thomas about having sex with your daughter?

698
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:13.519
And she says yes.

699
00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:17.000
So the cops are like, okay, can you explain because

700
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.760
she's twelve, And she claimed that she and Amy had

701
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.519
a conversation and she told Amy, do not have sex

702
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:27.280
with Thomas because he's a nice guy and he'll get

703
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:32.079
in trouble and I'm like, no, not no, but hell no,

704
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:35.039
not because he's twenty three.

705
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:36.960
Are you listening to me? Hello? Hello, Hello?

706
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.320
Not because he's twenty three, She says, don't have sex

707
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:40.760
with him because he might get in trouble.

708
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:45.519
Red Flag America, Where are you at? Because what is

709
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:46.599
that about?

710
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:49.920
So, as you can guess, the police are now looking

711
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:53.000
at Amy and the mom and are like, these two

712
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:56.119
are full of shit. Something's up, something is not passing

713
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.199
the sniff test here. So that's when they go and

714
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.000
they question Alex. Remember, mom called the police because Alex

715
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.719
was acting crazy and dangerous and they feared for their lives.

716
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.239
So they're like, why are you so upset about this trip, Alex?

717
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.480
And he frankly says he looks at the police in

718
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:13.639
their eyes, and he says, because I think my mother

719
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:17.360
is prostituting my sister out for money. Boom, there it

720
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:21.199
is that seventeen year old boy looks at the cops

721
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.079
and openly accuses his own mother of this. And then

722
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:29.280
he gives more details of all the money transfers, all

723
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:32.360
the gifts combined with all the money he's seeing deposited,

724
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:34.719
much of which I want you to know I didn't

725
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.079
go into detail with y'all. But there was six hundred

726
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:41.360
dollars deposits here, seven hundred deposits there, two thousand dollars

727
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:42.039
deposits here.

728
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:43.480
It goes on and on and on.

729
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:48.880
So police hearing what this boy is saying, are really

730
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.840
believing just in his character and what he's saying and

731
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:54.599
how angry he is. And they felt like Alex was

732
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.239
genuine in his beliefs, So they started to dig into

733
00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.800
the phone records and the financial records.

734
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.559
It would pay off big time.

735
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:04.880
Remember, Mom says she had no clue as to any

736
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.280
sexual relationship that might have been going on between her

737
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.559
twelve year old and now twenty three year old male

738
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.960
who she just vacationed with. But this is what the

739
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:17.199
police uncovered. There was a ring purchase made on her account,

740
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.519
as in a diamond ring, not a cheap one, a

741
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:25.159
big diamond ring. So police are like, was Julie engaged?

742
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.079
Why is there this ring purchase? So they asked Julie

743
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.440
what is this ring about? And Julie acknowledged, Oh, yeah,

744
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:34.960
I did go purchase a ring. Thomas sent the money

745
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.840
to me to buy an engagement ring for my twelve

746
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.960
year old daughter, and I went and bought it for

747
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:51.880
him to give to her. What in the hell is

748
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:54.559
this real life? Is all I can say.

749
00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:56.519
Amy.

750
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.119
On the other hand, she was questioned about did you

751
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.679
get a ring from Thomas? And she said, oh, yeah,

752
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:04.280
I got a really pretty ring from him. And they

753
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:06.239
were like, okay, so y'all are engaged, and she's like, no,

754
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:08.320
what are you talking about engagement? No, I just it

755
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.159
was a really pretty ring and he bought it for me.

756
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:13.960
So now you have an issue. You have your twelve

757
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:15.920
year old daughter is engaged to a twenty three year

758
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:17.920
old in your mind, but your daughter doesn't know that

759
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:20.320
she's engaged to a twenty three year old. Like, on

760
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:21.079
what planet?

761
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:23.880
Anyway? Do you think that this is okay? Lady? On

762
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:24.880
what planet?

763
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:28.639
So they did further research of the home and of

764
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.960
all of the electronic devices. Now I want to stop

765
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:33.719
real quick for one second and let you know that

766
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.000
I know some people let their young teens listen to this.

767
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.039
You may want to exit stage left at this point

768
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.119
because the rest of this is not going to be

769
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.239
I wouldn't be letting my young teens listen to this necessarily.

770
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:50.199
You've been warned, all right. So they did the further

771
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.920
search of the home and they found electronic devices. They

772
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:58.199
found the receipt for the ring that was bought and

773
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:02.559
in fact was a diamond ring. They found packaging for

774
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:06.679
a vibrator where was the vibrator packaging in the twelve

775
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:10.920
year old's room, as well as two condoms that were

776
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:15.599
out of the package, lubricant, a receipt from Atlantic Innovations

777
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.119
LLC for a free action G spot and Clint vibrator,

778
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:23.960
fifty shades at ease anal lube and Climax bursts anal

779
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:28.760
lube and the receipt for the items was there as

780
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:33.239
well and it was shipped directly to the twelve year

781
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:37.159
old girl name on it in December of twenty fourteen

782
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:42.159
before the Hawaii trip which was in January, and it

783
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.840
was purchased by none other than Thomas Keski. The fifteen

784
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:49.480
and seventeen then twenty one now twenty three year old

785
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.840
Julie's PayPal account was reviewed and they found transfers from

786
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.920
Thomas kesk seven hundred and thirty dollars three thousand, two

787
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:01.000
hundred and fifty five dollars, as well as other bank

788
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:05.320
deposits at other counts at other banks. There were transfers

789
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:07.760
for one thousand, six hundred and forty five dollars, one

790
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:10.559
hundred and seventy five dollars, one hundred and twenty nine dollars,

791
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:14.360
twenty dollars, eight hundred and thirty seven dollars, five hundred

792
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.880
and five dollars, seven hundred and forty five dollars, amongst others.

793
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:22.280
And these payments were consistently deposited.

794
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.679
Almost like a payroll would be deposited.

795
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.639
They also found an ID photo for Thomas and it

796
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.119
showed his date of birth as eleven twenty seven ninety one.

797
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:38.639
It proved that he was well into his twenties. There

798
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:42.719
was an iPod found that was searched. Once they got

799
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:44.519
it and they plugged it in, the police searched it

800
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.159
and guess what they found. I'm going to read straight

801
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:50.079
from the warrant for you because I don't want to

802
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.800
add lib this. I'm gonna tell you exactly what the

803
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:58.039
warrant says. Within Amy's iPod. By the way, Amy again

804
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.360
is not a real name. I'm just inserting that. Within

805
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:04.760
Amy's iPod, there are numerous screenshots containing images of video

806
00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:08.000
chats occurring between Amy and a male who appears to

807
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.840
be Thomas based on comparison to the photos on the

808
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.719
ID on the UVU app Within these images, it is

809
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:19.880
observed one screenshot where the large picture appears to be

810
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.960
Thomas and it shows his face in the area just

811
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.320
below his collarbone. He does not appear to have a

812
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:32.280
shirt on. It appears he is in a bathtub based

813
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:34.840
on it looking as if there is tile and a

814
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.920
tub just behind him. The smaller image on the chat

815
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:42.559
is located in the top right hand corner. This image

816
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.599
is of Amy. She appears to be in the seated position.

817
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:50.119
Amy appears to be topless and her right breast is exposed.

818
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:55.719
And another screenshot located on the iPod, the large image

819
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:59.679
appears to be Thomas. He's wearing a large sorry, he's

820
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.159
wearing a dark color jacket or shirt of some type.

821
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.519
The smaller image on the chat is located in the

822
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:10.280
top right hand corner and is of a female's unclothed body.

823
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:13.719
The female appears to be lying down. The photo shows

824
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.480
the area just under the breasts down to the area

825
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:19.559
near the top of the thighs. The front portion of

826
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:25.559
the female's vagina is visible in the photograph.

827
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:25.880
Wow.

828
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:32.400
They also found conversations between the two that dated back

829
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.480
from September twenty fourteen, where Thomas admitted with his own

830
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:40.039
mouth that he was twenty two years old and he

831
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.280
loved the fact that Amy was only twelve. There were

832
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:48.559
some extremely sexual messages sent from Thomas to Amy.

833
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:49.840
But I'm gonna tell y'all something.

834
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.039
I'm not a prude or anything, but I'm not going

835
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:54.599
to read these line for line, especially since they were

836
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:58.199
sent to a child. He's just very specific about what

837
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.760
he's gonna do to her. He talks about licking her

838
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:03.320
and the things he wants to do to her. But

839
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:05.880
just because she's so young, I'm not reading on word

840
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.920
for word. I think you can get the gist without

841
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:10.039
me doing it, and I would just find it uncomfortable,

842
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.199
just way too uncomfortable. The things that he said to

843
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.400
a child. A couple of things I will read that

844
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.440
he said to her. He said, thank you Amy for

845
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:23.559
quote unquote doing that, and he tells her that he

846
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:27.960
loves her, but not just because she did that. He

847
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.639
also said, and the thing you did with your finger,

848
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:36.039
Oh my god, thank you so much. He also on

849
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:40.559
in September, Amy had sent him some type of file

850
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:43.199
and said, my mom said to give it to you.

851
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:47.239
Something else that came up was that Thomas back in

852
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:53.079
November was apologizing to Amy and saying that he's dealing

853
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.639
with it whatever it is, but Amy needs to go

854
00:47:56.679 --> 00:48:00.320
talk to her mom about her options. Thomas talked about

855
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:03.280
needing to delete his Facebook because her brother Alex was

856
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:07.440
messaging him on it and he was worried, not of Alex,

857
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:09.880
but he was worried that he might get arrested. So

858
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.119
does this sound real kosher to you? Does this sound

859
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:14.360
like something that is just a harmless friendship, because it

860
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:19.840
doesn't to me. Back in October, they were messaging about

861
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:23.840
how her mother knew how old he was. On October sixteenth,

862
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:28.000
Thomas is asking the twelve year old Amy to fantasies,

863
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:31.920
asking her to fantasize, and she comes back because she's

864
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:35.400
a kid, and says, I'm having trouble understanding what you're

865
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.400
asking me to do, and so he said, well, look

866
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:39.599
up some inspiration, and she says, well, I'm confused. I

867
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:41.199
don't know what that what you mean, and so he

868
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:43.840
then sends her a link from pornhub and asks her

869
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.039
to pick out things that she would like to try,

870
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:49.360
and then he asked her to please prove that she

871
00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:51.880
wasn't wearing underwear, but she was like, I don't want

872
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:56.960
to send a picture. Then on October twenty third, they

873
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.719
started discussing her getting a visa so she couldn't marry him.

874
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:04.920
They talked about her living with him in three months

875
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:09.440
or so, and so he then asks Amy, what is

876
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:12.880
your mom saying, and Julie says, oh, mom wants to

877
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.400
know what's the youngest that you can get married in Australia.

878
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:19.880
She's going to send her kid off to Australia, her

879
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.920
twelve year old to marry a twenty three year old.

880
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.119
And then he says, we'll tell your mom thank you

881
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:30.159
so much for trusting me. And then on October twenty

882
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:33.400
sixth Amy was out to eat with her family but

883
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:36.039
she was texting Thomas when she tells him that they

884
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:40.599
are discussing her going to Australia, and they're discussing it

885
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:43.400
because she is saying how her twenty three year old

886
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.480
boyfriend is going to pimp her out there, and then

887
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.480
they start talking about having sex in the future and

888
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:53.280
Thomas starts joking around with the twelve year old girl, saying, ooh,

889
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:55.320
I bet you want to poke holes in the condoms,

890
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:57.960
and she says, oh, you don't even have to wear one,

891
00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:00.719
and he agrees and says, oh, heyah, that's cool. We'll

892
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.400
just get you the morning after pill. And then he

893
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:06.519
sends the twelve year old girl links about the morning

894
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:08.239
after pill and how to use it.

895
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:08.519
Y'all.

896
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:11.239
He's twenty three years old sending this to a twelve

897
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:13.840
year old little girl. And the sex talk goes on

898
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:17.760
and on and on at nauseum. It's like it's just

899
00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:23.280
too much. And then on November sixteenth, around the time

900
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.360
that they had talked about him coming to visit them

901
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:29.280
and when Alex had freaked out, Amy texted saying her

902
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.079
mom said that he can stay upstairs in her bedroom

903
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.760
with her, and Thomas responds to Amy saying, we'll tell

904
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:38.920
your mom. We're not just going to be having a

905
00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:41.519
bunch of sexy sex. I want you with me too.

906
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:45.840
So there's no doubt that Julie knew what was going

907
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:49.239
on with her daughter and has lied completely to the police.

908
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:54.079
Here's some other things. On November twenty fourth, Thomas and

909
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.880
Amy are texting and they're talking about the fact that

910
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.199
Julie made an appointment for her twelve year old daughter

911
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:05.320
to get birth control so that once she gets it

912
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:07.199
and gets it over with, they don't have to worry

913
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:09.960
about dealing with birth control in the future. And so

914
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:12.199
she did, in fact go to the doctor and she

915
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:17.719
told Thomas that she got aneuva ring inserted. They're also

916
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:19.599
talking about the fact that Thomas is telling her that

917
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:23.360
he's pooping, and the reason he's pooping so much is

918
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:26.679
because this is what happens after anal and Thomas goes

919
00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:28.039
on to say how they have.

920
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:29.079
To try it at least once.

921
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:30.920
If she doesn't like it, they don't have to do

922
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.440
it again, but she needs to at least try it

923
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.239
once to see what it feels like, and it just

924
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:38.719
it gets sicker and sicker and sicker from there.

925
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:42.360
I mean, this is just unconscionable.

926
00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:50.400
Thomas absolutely is saying the most vile and disgusting things

927
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:53.239
to this little girl. And there's no doubt that Julie

928
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:55.840
knew what was going on with her daughter has completely

929
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.719
lied to the police. So police confronted her about these discrepancies,

930
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:04.000
the obvious problems with her story, and Julie said she

931
00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:08.400
never asked or talked to Thomas about his age, nor

932
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:12.199
did her daughter ever tell her about his age, clearly

933
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.400
acting as if it was the twelve year old child's

934
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:17.239
job to tell her who she was talking to.

935
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:19.039
That's a parent's job.

936
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.920
Julie then told the police, Oh, well, the reason I

937
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:26.719
let her see him was because Amy started acting suicidal

938
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:28.159
again and I was feeling.

939
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:28.840
Really bad about it.

940
00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:33.119
Clearly, she's now putting the blame on her twelve year

941
00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:35.679
old daughter for forcing her hand. Again, it's the twelve

942
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:39.000
year old's fault, she says, I let her talk to

943
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:41.280
him because she you know, I don't want her to

944
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.519
hurt herself, and I definitely don't want her to run

945
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.719
away again, blaming the daughter for the contact with the

946
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:49.440
twenty three year old man because of her emotional state

947
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:53.880
rather than her failure to parent. They asked her, did

948
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.039
you see them act sexually together? Julie says no, yet

949
00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:00.679
she left her daughter alone with him in a hotel

950
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:03.599
room overnight, so of course she didn't see it.

951
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:05.880
She didn't stick around to see it.

952
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:08.800
She did say, oh, well, they held hands and they

953
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:11.079
kissed in Hawaii when we were shopping. What the fuck

954
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:16.079
do you think was happening, Julie, nobody's that stupid, so

955
00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:19.440
you were scared you said at one point of not

956
00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:21.480
being able to meet back up with her, when y'all

957
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:24.440
flew separately on the way there, you were just worried

958
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.440
because you were afraid y'all wouldn't meet up again. But

959
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:29.679
you were felt safe enough to let her fly off

960
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:33.480
with Thomas alone on a separate plane. But then when

961
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:36.880
they flew back, they flew back completely separately. You didn't,

962
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.559
you weren't worried about your twelve year old. Then it

963
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:41.760
sure does seem like you let your daughter just fly

964
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:47.079
off into the sunset. So she was bluntly asked about

965
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:51.280
her son questioning her about a grown man facetiming with

966
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:55.079
his naked twelve year old sister, and she said, oh, well,

967
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.199
I thought Alex made it up, but I did go

968
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:59.239
in the room later and check and I didn't see anything.

969
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:02.920
And then, to top it all off, she had no

970
00:54:03.079 --> 00:54:05.800
answer for the fact that she was willing to marry

971
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.159
off her minor child to an adult who wanted to

972
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:14.800
pimp her out in Australia. All Julie could do was deny, deny, deny.

973
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:21.639
The fact is she couldn't make this make sense. Her son, Alex,

974
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.519
had been right all along and had told the truth

975
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:27.159
in the mindset of trying to save his little sister,

976
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:29.599
and if his mother wouldn't do it, then he would

977
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.280
do what he had to do. And he told the

978
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:35.840
police everything he knew and he held nothing back. So

979
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:39.719
the FBI and the Australian Federal Police also got involved

980
00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:42.719
and they executed a search warrant and they found evidence

981
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:46.880
that Thomas was still communicating with that twelve year old Amy,

982
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.800
even after all the time that they thought that the

983
00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:55.239
communication might have been cut off. What happened was CPS

984
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:59.119
had gotten involved, and so Julie had cut off all

985
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:03.280
contact herself with Thomas. Clearly the only reason she did

986
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:07.360
it though, was because she was fearing for her own freedom. Thomas, though,

987
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:11.360
had now converted. He no longer had his social and

988
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:15.159
texting messages because those could be tracked right digital tracking.

989
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:19.559
So he was handwriting and mailing notes to the twelve

990
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:24.679
year old which Julie was passing to her daughter. She

991
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:30.119
was still also receiving money. The mother was receiving money

992
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:37.119
from Thomas. Amy's handwritten letters to Thomas when they went

993
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:39.440
and did a warrant check on the house had not

994
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:42.840
been mailed yet, and one of them contained the bombshell

995
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:46.719
that the twelve year old was pregnant and she was

996
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:51.920
calling the baby by the name Clara primnos Keski, Thomas's name.

997
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.960
Julie tells the police she's feigning. Oh my god, I

998
00:55:57.039 --> 00:56:00.480
had no idea. This is crazy. I didn't know she

999
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:02.840
was pregnant. Also didn't know she was still talking to Thomas.

1000
00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:07.159
Are you serious. Another letter they found stated that the

1001
00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:09.880
twelve year old had miscarried, but the police were trying

1002
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:12.679
to get her DNA and trying to get DNA off

1003
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:16.199
of clothing. So Amy in her letter states to Thomas

1004
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.599
that she's refusing to give up the clothing and said

1005
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:23.320
this was to give Thomas time to run. Amy was

1006
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:26.800
removed from her mother's care as police tried to continue

1007
00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:29.920
to investigate this. She was removed for about three weeks

1008
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:33.480
from her mother's care, and when she returned, she wrote

1009
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.880
in a journal which I find personally to be convenient

1010
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:40.119
and seemingly coached. Because here's an excerpt from that journal.

1011
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:43.800
Tell me what you think it says. In the journal

1012
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:46.280
found during the search warrant, a large amount of the

1013
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.760
information appears to be research on Finland and why she

1014
00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.440
wants to move to Finland. In the journal, there's a

1015
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.960
page where Amy documents that we stopped talking, we being

1016
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.800
her and Thomas on April twenty second.

1017
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:01.840
At seven oh five a. She then wrote on.

1018
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:04.320
The page what date it was and how long it

1019
00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:07.760
had been since they talked, and in one entry, Amy said,

1020
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:13.559
I expected I expected this. He never did anything. I

1021
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.679
never talked to him naked, nor did I sleep with him.

1022
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:19.760
He was just being generous. He never even asked for

1023
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:22.440
a kiss, which is why it's unfair for them to

1024
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.559
pursue him in an investigation. And she goes on to

1025
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:29.280
say she should have killed her brother Alex. Also in

1026
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:32.920
the journal is a page that says an FBI psychologist

1027
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:36.079
and Hi to an FBI psychologist, tell them, I say, Hi,

1028
00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:38.239
here's the fingerprint. Love.

1029
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:42.119
Amy doesn't that That doesn't sound like a twelve year old.

1030
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:43.599
To me, that sounds like a twelve year old being

1031
00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:46.360
told what to write so that nobody gets in trouble.

1032
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:47.480
She was dating it.

1033
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.199
I can't even get seniors to put their names on

1034
00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:51.920
papers half the time, but she's dating and time stamping

1035
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:52.719
and putting number.

1036
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:54.159
I don't know, absolutely not.

1037
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:57.559
After weighing all of the evidence, the police ultimate believed

1038
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:00.400
her brother Alex, and they placed Julie Grinder He under

1039
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.199
arrest for a human trafficking of a minor for sexual servitude,

1040
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:07.280
pimping a child, and sexual assault of a child with

1041
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.360
a pattern, because what they saw is what we all

1042
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:15.519
just heard, that he was paying Julie for access to

1043
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.000
her daughter which she was willing to give. This is

1044
00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:23.599
absolute trafficking of a child. This is actolute, absolute sexual abuse.

1045
00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:29.079
Thomas Keske was also arrested and he was charged in Australia.

1046
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:30.400
You want to know what he got.

1047
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:37.400
He received two years and they suspended it after he

1048
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:44.079
only served twenty eight days. Tell me he's not gonna

1049
00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:49.199
do this again. Tell me that that penalty is gonna work. Yeah.

1050
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:49.760
Right.

1051
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:56.920
Julie's charges of pimping a child and sexual assault were

1052
00:58:57.360 --> 00:58:59.920
eventually dismissed by the prosecutors.

1053
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:01.880
According to the court records.

1054
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:05.360
This left the human trafficking of a minor for sexual

1055
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.480
servitude as the only thing on the table, and she

1056
00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:12.519
would eventually plead guilty. Now this is where I got frustrated,

1057
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:14.559
and I'm hoping maybe some people in Colorado can reach

1058
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:17.840
out to me and help me. I searched high and

1059
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:21.400
low for what her sentence was.

1060
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:24.159
I know that she faced eight to twenty.

1061
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:28.000
Four years, but she also was eligible for probation in

1062
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:31.400
her role of this. I could not find where she

1063
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.480
was sentenced. Jimothy, producer Jimothy even tried to help me

1064
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.480
find it. I even made a phone call to the courts.

1065
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:42.320
I called Colorado and the courthouse was closed. It closed

1066
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:44.880
at noon today, so boo. So I couldn't get any

1067
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:48.400
information there. I hate ending not knowing exactly what happened

1068
00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:51.559
to her, but the fact that I can't find it

1069
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:55.079
seems to be a bit concerning to me. Does anyone

1070
00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:57.280
in Colorado know this? Did it make your local news

1071
00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:59.599
because I couldn't find it, Let me know, Please message me.

1072
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:03.840
But I can tell you this, that's not enough. Neither

1073
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:06.760
one of these got enough for what that child dealt with.

1074
01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:09.079
And I'm telling you I did not give you all

1075
01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:12.119
of the horrific details because it's just too much from

1076
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:14.519
my mom, from my mama heart to tell you what

1077
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:16.800
all that little girl was doing and her mother was

1078
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:18.960
getting paid the entire time for it.

1079
01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:21.400
That's a shitty human being.

1080
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:25.199
As far as being a parent, that's our number one

1081
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:29.760
job to protect our kids at all costs. So, Julie,

1082
01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:32.559
just so you know, regardless what your sentence was, you

1083
01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:33.760
failed as a mother.

1084
01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:35.800
And I don't.

1085
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:40.159
I don't go around advocating for aggressiveness and for fighting people.

1086
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:42.280
You know. That's not That's not what I'm for. And

1087
01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.679
I'm pretty laid back. But don't get it twisted, because

1088
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:46.079
I will lean forward real quick