April 27, 2026

Darkness Fell: The Double Murder of Chip and Claudia Northup

Darkness Fell: The Double Murder of Chip and Claudia Northup

Part 1 of a 2 part series. In the quiet college town of Davis, California, retired couple Chip and Claudia Northup were living out their golden years in peace — until the dead of night changed everything. On April 14, 2013, in the early morning...

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Season 10

Part 1 of a 2 part series.

In the quiet college town of Davis, California, retired couple Chip and Claudia Northup were living out their golden years in peace — until the dead of night changed everything. On April 14, 2013, in the early morning hours, the couple lay sleeping in their own bed when an intruder slipped silently into their home. He stood over them in the darkness, watching them breathe, before unleashing a savage, relentless attack that left the bedroom soaked in blood. What followed was one of the most brutal and disturbing double murders the community had ever seen.

#unspeakable #podcast #crime #truecrime

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended

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for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's

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kJ You're back with another episode of Unspeakable. How's your

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week go? And I ask you every single time do

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you even answer me? Or do you just listen to

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me say it?

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So?

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I really do hope that you're having a fantastic week.

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I know Wednesdays are exciting for a lot of people

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for these new drops and for my Patreon members, y'all

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are getting them early. Don't forget y'all get in that Patreon.

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Let me know what you're looking for and I will.

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I'll be happy to accommodate you as best that I can.

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Now a couple of announcements real fast, all right, And

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don't forget that. You can also get the Patreon app

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on your phone and you can listen to it there.

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You can watch me podcast all of those great things.

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So you just go to Patreon dot com or you

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can get the app however you choose to do that,

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And I have a great time doing that, all right,

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So let's jump into this week's episode, And y'all know,

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I'll love podcasting, right and I love all of the

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stories that I do. I put my heart and soul

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into them. This specific one, however, is a special one

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to me, and I am an I'm not related to

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these people in any way, but the story just really

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reached me on a personal level. And so I hope

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that you come along in this journey with me and

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you feel why I am so drawn to this case.

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And we are going to go to none other than

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the beautiful Davis, California. So this area is a low

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crime place, a beautiful place to live. There's low crime

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and there's high intelligence, and I think that that's a

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great thing. I say this because it is a well

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known college town in Yolo County, And that's kind of cool, right,

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you only live once Yola. Now, usually if I hear

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go Aggies, I'm thinking Texas, A and m I'm not

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gonna lie that's what first comes to my mind. But

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for today, I'm going to be talking about the Aggies

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of UC Davis. And this area is a place that

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is full of environmentally conscious people. They love to live

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there because the essence of that area encompasses this and

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all of the things that are important to them, like

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going green. They have a fifty mile path that is

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bike friendly. It weaves in and out of the residential

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communities and also the nearby campus. And to boot it's

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just fifteen miles west of the hustle and bustle of Sacramento, which,

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to that note of the environmentally friendly aspect of things,

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that is home from what I understand to the Golden

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One Center, which is the world's first entirely solar powered

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indoor sports arena. Now, maybe I'm just ignorant, but I

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had no idea about that, and I went down a

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rabbit hole researching it. But in twenty fourteen, Davis was

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the perfect place for married couple Chip and Claudia northup

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to settle down. And mister Chip's middle name was Jennings,

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by the way, and I need to tell you that

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because you know, he had to be one cool dude

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if his middle name was Jennings, all right, And I'll

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tell you this also, Miss Claudia could not have agreed more.

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She just thought the world of her man, and both

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of them, I would guess I would have to describe

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as mature adults, because mister Chip was a fresh eighty

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seven years old and miss Claudia was a younger woman

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at only seventy six. Now, both of these two had

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been married previously, but they found themselves single and sitting

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in a church pew seventeen years prior when this saying

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light attracts light was proven absolutely true. Now, of course,

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they both had lived interesting lives respectively before this chance

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meeting in church, but together they just created a powerhouse

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of good times. And from the moment that they met,

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you hear the saying that they were inseparable. But this

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was absolutely true. And I want you to think about

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those precious elderly couples that you see in the stores

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that are still holding hands. He opens the door for

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her albeit slow, but he waits for his bride to

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shuffle right on through that doorway. And the couple where

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she still places her hands around his face whenever she's

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giving him a kiss, something that she has done a

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million times before, but still means it with all of

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her heart. A little bit older, a little bit slower,

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but still full of life. Mister chip and Miss Claudia

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were that couple. Now let's talk about mister Chiprill Quick.

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He was a Navy veteran, and he had served valiantly

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in World War Two and later would become a very

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successful attorney. And while he may have known the law,

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his heart could be found in classical literature. And the

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man was just a classic example of being great yet

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serving his community, doing things like serving on the school

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board as well as working as the city attorney. But

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he wasn't all work and no play. He was what

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I would call well rounded guys. He was a scholar,

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a musical man who played a guitar in his band,

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the Putah Creek Crawdads, And he was a social justice

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warrior and also a believer in incredible barbecue, which he

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sold at the County Fair for as long as he

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could remember. And if you can't tell by all of this,

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mister Chip was just a flat out catch. Miss Claudia

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loved everything about that man. But he was likewise just

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as smitten with his girl, because Miss Claudia was the

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miss Piggy to his kermit. And those are her words,

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by the way, not mine. Miss Claudia was a total

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free spirit and her boisterous laugh could be heard from

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miles around. And it was fitting though, because she was

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one of those people that made everyone feel important and valued,

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and she gave them space to be heard and to listen,

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and that is not a skill that many people have

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to genuinely make someone feel seen and heard. I've spoken

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of my friend Krisha before, but I think of her

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whenever I think about the way Miss Claudia treated people.

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Just an absolute angel on earth when it came to

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accepting others and just being so very kind. And she

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was known for what they called her Claudia hug. And

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it was called that because when she hugged you, honey,

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she hugged you. And if you were around her, you

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better like to laugh because that woman was giggling all

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the time. But the giggle is kind of funny in

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and of itself, because it was kind of a giggle.

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Where in the South we would say bless her heart,

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you know, like we look at somebody, bless your heart. Well,

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her giggle was kind of like almost like I don't

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want to say condescending, but that was kind of like

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her way of going okay, all right. But that giggle

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and the light that she brought with her, compounded with

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the joy you felt when around her, it just made

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her a very special kind of person. You don't meet

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people like this every day, loving, compassionate and grateful for everything.

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But Miss Claudia would have made the absolute best character

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if you ever had to create one in a movie.

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And I'm telling you this because the woman was a

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total frickin badass. First of all, while others back in

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the sixties were homemakers and doing all that you know,

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real effeminate lifestyle that was being pushed back in the sixties,

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Miss Claudia was a whole ass electrician. Yeah, like had

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a tool belt and was making that money. And she

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was also a true activist who went against the status quo.

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And I don't say this just lightly. I mean, hell,

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she went in the sixties and married herself a black man,

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which was total, totally unheard of back then, and had

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herself two biracial daughters. Why because she could, Because she could.

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She was a free spirit, and she lived with what

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her heart told her was the right life for her.

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She didn't listen to others. With her pantyhose on and

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her high heels, you could tell it was her coming

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in with the whiff of her signature scent, that black rose,

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which was an essential oil only available at an apothecary

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down the way, but she handpicked it. That was the

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smell of miss Claudia. She was her own woman, and

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no one could tame the wild and free in her.

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But guess what, mister Chip didn't want to when he

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lay eyes on her and he got to know her heart.

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He never wanted to own her. He wanted to be

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with her, and he just wanted to look and admire her.

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They were absolutely in love and when they married back

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in nineteen ninety six. Of course, of course their children

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were grown by this time, but both families were thrilled

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with the union and they blended easily into one big family.

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Now they had been married seventeen years by the time

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that twenty fourteen rolled around, and they still remained very

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very close with their families. They spoke daily with their

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own respective children from their previous relationships, and now grandchildren

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were in the mix, as fate would have it, and

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these were just two very blessed people with a beautifully

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blended family and things were just right in their world.

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Now I've told you this, miss Claudia, and I think

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you've picked up on it. She was a sassy thing,

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a sassy thing, and so granny just wasn't something that

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she was prepared to be called. So when these grandchildren

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came around, she, when they got old enough to speak

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and all that, said, you know what are we gonna

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call me? I cannot be called granny. I mean I'm

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just too you know, just that doesn't fit me. So

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so her grandkids agreed and said, you are just too

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grand to be a granny. Well, at that time, Happy

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Days was huge on TV. Y'all remember Happy Days. I

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remember watching that with my grandparents and y'all know, and

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that show that the Fawns. He was the coolest guy around.

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When was Claudia's grandson shouted out, well, Grandza, like the

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fawns gronds Grandza. And from that point forward, Granza was

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born and whenever they had gotten married, it was those

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same grandkids that walked Granza down the aisle to her

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beloved mister Chip. So on April thirteenth, twenty fourteen, it

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was really odd when the couple did not show up

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for church. I mean that's where they had even first met,

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and they were devoted in their church life and their

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religious lives mattered to them, so their absence was one

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that was felt whenever they didn't attend the services. Well

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as that day crept On, their kids kept calling, but

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nobody would answer the phone. They tried the house phone,

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the cell phones just went to voicemail or it just

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rang and nobody picked up. So later that day, when

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mister Chip no showed to a gig with his beloved band,

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that was now also going to be a huge red

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flag with the combined that they didn't show up for church.

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So this at this point the adult kids were pretty worried.

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So one of mister Chip's oldest sons, his name was Robert,

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he went by the house with two of his sons

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so the grandsons to go check on his parents. Now

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I want to say this real quick. I recognize that

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mister Chip and mus Claudia had children that were separate

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and not theirs together. But just for storytelling and the ease,

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I'm just going to say their parents, although I would

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like to acknowledge that they are not biologically the parents

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of all of the combined children together. So Robert went

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by the house. He knocked, he rang the doorbell, but

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no one would ever come and answer the door. So

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after some time of them trying to get somebody to

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come to the door, no one came. They loaded up

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in the car and the guys left the house.

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Well.

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Then evening came and the couple's daughter, Claudia, went by

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the house to go see if she could get them

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to answer the phone or the door, but there was

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no answer. Again. But the thing here is that a

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woman a woman ain't leaving without answers, okay, And Claudia

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is like, what is going on? So she decided to

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go around to the back of the house and see

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if she could see anything or if something was a

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miss And what she found was an open window with

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the screen cut. Now, anybody listening right now knows that

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would have been an absolute alarming sight, and so I'm

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sure her heart had started pounding, going uh oh, this

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isn't good. And so she went to where the couple's

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bedroom window was and she peered in through the blinds.

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It was dark, it was hard to see, and she

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was trying to see what she could see, if anything. Now,

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this would turn out to be something that she wished

236
00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.639
pretty soon that she had never done, because as she

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squinted and she focused on what she could try to

238
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make out, she got pretty panicked. And so she called

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00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.360
the police, who would arrive. And when the police arrived,

240
00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.360
they too went and they were looking through the windows.

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00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.039
And there is one thing we all know, and that's

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that there is never a reason for there to be

243
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:33.279
blood spattered on walls. Never. Whatever happened inside of that

244
00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.399
home seemed like it had been traumatic and these people

245
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.240
needed help. So the police made entry into the home.

246
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.960
They go through quickly. They were announcing who they are,

247
00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:45.200
you know, Sheriff's office, police, whatever. And so once the

248
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.200
home was quickly cleared, they made it into that back

249
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.000
bedroom and there they determined that there were two bodies

250
00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:55.799
on the scene, and I am saying bodies because both

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00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:00.799
of them were beyond any possibility of help. They didn't

252
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.320
even need to check a pulse to confirm that these

253
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:07.000
victims were dead because what police encountered in that bedroom

254
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.519
was something that and I don't say this lightly or

255
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:15.720
in cliche, but it was something truly of a horror film,

256
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.200
something that is not natural. It's nothing that anyone should

257
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.159
ever witness in this lifetime. So there was an older

258
00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:29.480
male and female body and they were laying there, obviously deceased,

259
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:34.960
and just by looking at them, the paramedics shook their

260
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.279
heads and said, you know, there's nothing that we can do.

261
00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:42.399
So the coroner would be called in as well as

262
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.879
homicide detectives because this was not any type of natural sequence.

263
00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.480
So as all of these decisions were being made and

264
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:55.559
people were being called and realizations recorded, word began to

265
00:15:55.639 --> 00:16:01.279
spread about a believed double homicide at the home. And

266
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:07.399
what something something that people don't realize until it happens

267
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:12.080
to them, is that media outlets like your local news,

268
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.960
they listen to police scanners if you don't if you

269
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:19.559
don't know that, and so they know the police codes

270
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.919
and they learn this because it's a tool for them

271
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.840
to be able to get on scene quickly for what

272
00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:28.039
might be deemed as hot news. And so when they

273
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.000
hear these calls come out and they hear that they

274
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.919
need the coroner on scene. Boom, they can send out

275
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:37.840
their their crews and start getting footage whenever they're on scene.

276
00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.320
But what most people don't think about is that sometimes

277
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.399
the victims' families are getting the information of what is

278
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:51.240
happening at that exact same time that the media is

279
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.799
also arriving on the scene. And this happened to be

280
00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:00.080
the case for one of missus Claudia's daughter's, Victoria. So

281
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.279
she saw that she had twelve missed phone calls on

282
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.000
her cell phone from her sister. So when she realized this,

283
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:09.799
she called her sister right back, and all her sister

284
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.440
could get out was, oh my god, there's been a

285
00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:16.039
break in at mom's house and there are two bodies inside.

286
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.680
That's all she could muster the strength to say. So

287
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.920
Victoria jumps in her car and flies over to her

288
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.119
parents' home, as anyone would do. And as this tragedy unfolded,

289
00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:32.880
news cameras were already there and filming this incredibly vulnerable

290
00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.240
and heartbreaking moment. And I want to stop for a

291
00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.319
second and say, just imagine how you would feel if

292
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:50.440
that were you, that your most horrifying situation in your

293
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.720
life to that date is now being recorded and broadcast

294
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.000
for the world to see before you're even able to

295
00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:03.720
process what you're being told. The news was very quick

296
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:08.000
to publish this breaking story to the community, even before

297
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.720
people involved in the daily lives of this couple had

298
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:16.119
time to be notified. And the video coverage on the

299
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:21.680
news caught the attention of a woman that knew this

300
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.599
couple very well and had not even been notified. It

301
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.920
was their housekeeper. Her name was Miss DeLanda Jones, and

302
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.519
it caught her completely off guard. One minute, she's sitting

303
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.680
there just watching the news, and the next thing she knows,

304
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.920
breaking right in front of her eyes is the home

305
00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.640
that she's been going to for twelve years and cleaning

306
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.279
to this lovely couple that she has become friends with

307
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.799
and knows them, I would say intimately. And as she

308
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.480
realizes that that's the home that she's seeing on television,

309
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.480
she broke up. She just broke down. She started sobbing

310
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.880
and started screaming, Oh my god, my clients, those are

311
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.400
my clients. So many people were now in hysterics with

312
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.599
no further information as to what had happened. I mean,

313
00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.920
that is heartbreaking, just off the top that you would

314
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:10.319
find out that way of a tragedy. If you've been

315
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:12.279
a listener for a while and you've listened to the

316
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.200
episode Nineteen Day Devil. I even mentioned in there that

317
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.359
my friend Ronda found out her two children had been

318
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.400
murdered not by a knock at the door, but by

319
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:31.240
the news. The news broke that, and she'd unbelievable, unbelievable.

320
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.599
But eventually, in this case, the family would be updated

321
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.680
once police got a grasp of the situation, and they

322
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.680
would be told that both of their parents had been

323
00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:48.519
stabbed multiple times. And so, hearing this, the question became,

324
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.599
what does that mean? What does multiple times mean? What

325
00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.880
do you mean? They were stabbed multiple times and the

326
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.200
coroner reported to them it's going to be more more

327
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:05.880
than twelve times a piece. How do you even process

328
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:11.200
this information? These two elderly people stabbed multiple times in

329
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.920
their bed? How is this even real? How is this

330
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:19.480
real life? They're old, they're in their bed, and you're

331
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:24.480
telling me someone stabbed them twelve times. So, while this

332
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:26.960
was hard for the family to even wrap their brains around,

333
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.319
the whole truth would be something no normal person could

334
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.240
have ever imagined possible. So the scenes being processed by detectives,

335
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.440
the bodies were loaded up and they were taken to

336
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:47.599
the Medical Examiner's office for autopsy. The pathologist completed the

337
00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:53.200
normal procedure for an autopsy, and this includes removal from

338
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:58.640
the body bag and photographs being taken. Now any trace

339
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.400
evidence that might you know, they're putting in a body

340
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.400
bag in case there's any type of trace evidence that

341
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.519
might fall off of the body, something along those lines,

342
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:11.279
but in this case that there was none, so instead

343
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:13.559
of just removing them from the bag, because of the

344
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:18.799
condition that the bodies were in, the examinations want to

345
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.880
be done from head and documented down to the feet,

346
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.680
but they decided that they wanted to X ray the

347
00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:28.799
bodies while they were still inside of their respective body bags.

348
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.880
And this was done for a multitude of reasons, including

349
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.160
being able to check for any hardware that might be

350
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.079
within the body, like a hip replacement or a pace

351
00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.519
maker or something along those lines. But it can also

352
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:46.480
detect fractures in bones, hemorrhages, or any foreign objects that

353
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.920
may be within the body. So like, for example, sometimes

354
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.279
when people are smuggling drugs and die, they'll find that

355
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.680
they had like a foreign pouch in their body that

356
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.440
leaked the drugs out and that's what caused them to die.

357
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:03.279
Something along those lines. Well, whenever they did these x rays,

358
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.880
it did actually show that there were foreign objects inside

359
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:14.400
of both of their bodies. So, starting with mister Chip,

360
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.400
his X ray showed that there was something non natural

361
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:26.039
and non surgical inside of his stomach cavity. And looking

362
00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:30.279
at the X ray, it resembled something cylindrical and it

363
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.119
was quite shocking in its placement within the body. It

364
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.119
did not belong, nothing belonged where this was found. So

365
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.759
the pathologists would have to look at this more closely

366
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.160
once he was removed from the bag. Now I've already

367
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:46.359
told you this, but mister Chip was in horrific condition

368
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:50.720
upon removal of the bags, suffering from, as you already know,

369
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.799
multiple stab wounds. But what I haven't explained to you

370
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.319
yet was not only were there multiple stab wounds, but

371
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:04.200
he had been disemboweled. So while the family had been told, look,

372
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.839
there's a lot of stab wounds, you know, more than twelve,

373
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.119
the autopsy report would finalize that number at somewhere between

374
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:18.240
sixty one and sixty five stab wounds. The number here

375
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:23.799
uncertain because some of the stab wounds connected with other ones,

376
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.720
and some just passed through the others, and so it's

377
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.119
kind of a It was a mess, I guess is

378
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:34.480
the only way to put this. Mister Chip had major

379
00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:39.160
stab wounds to his throat, his chest, his hands, and

380
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:44.319
the lower half of his legs. Three stab wounds were

381
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.960
in the right side of his neck, which had dissected

382
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:54.279
his jugular vein. His torso had nine clustered stab wounds,

383
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:58.279
meaning close together, and they were all facing the same

384
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:03.319
direction as the knife entered his body. His left chest,

385
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.240
the left side of his chest wall was sliced open

386
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.119
with a four and a half inch open gap, and

387
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.680
the knife that he was stabbed with. He was being

388
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.119
stabbed with such force that the knife broke through his

389
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:26.480
eighth rib and it severed his left lung. There were

390
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.519
severe stab wounds on the backs of his hands and

391
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:35.039
his lower left leg, which was indicative of defensive wounds.

392
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.799
Like imagine you're laying in your bed and then something happens,

393
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.119
and so you start trying to defend yourself using whatever

394
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.319
you can, putting up your hands and your legs, trying

395
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.920
to fight someone off. He was absolutely aware that he

396
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:50.640
was being attacked and the stab through his lower hand.

397
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.279
It ran through his finger bones, meaning the knife penetrated

398
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.279
finger bones, and it severed the tendons in his hand,

399
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.160
and it caused a big hemorrhage. Outside of his hand,

400
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.599
his palm had a deep horizontal cut from him swiping

401
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.759
and trying to grab at the blade as he was

402
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:13.920
being stabbed over and over and over again. His major

403
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.920
leg wound indicated that the knife was swung with such

404
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.279
force that the blade went all the way through his

405
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:26.119
leg in one side and completely out of the other. Now,

406
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.920
as far as the cylindrical item from the X ray,

407
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:34.440
when the doctor reached into his chest cavity and removed it,

408
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.839
everyone in the room became wide eyed because it was

409
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:45.480
a drinking glass, like a whiskey glass. A whole drinking

410
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:51.480
whiskey glass had been inserted inside of his chest. So

411
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.640
obviously this makes no sense. It wasn't the whiskey glass

412
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.240
that he was being cut with, So whoever had done

413
00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:04.680
this to this elderly man had purposefully put a drinking

414
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:09.599
glass inside of his chest for whatever reason. Nothing I

415
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:15.440
can say would even make sense. So that was pulled

416
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:19.880
out and documented and completely bizarre. But the killer had

417
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:27.160
also gone up to mister Chip's forehead and cut open

418
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:32.119
his forehead. But this wasn't done in the frenzied stabbing

419
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.839
that was all over the other parts of the body.

420
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:42.720
The doctor was documenting that this seemed more controlled, more meticulous,

421
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:50.599
slowed down, very purposeful. So based on the location, the

422
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.400
severity of all of these stab wounds and the blood loss,

423
00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:00.000
mister Chip was simply unable to defend himself, and because

424
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:05.119
because the jugular vein was cut or dissected. He fought valiantly,

425
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:10.440
but he was rendered unconscious within minutes of being attacked.

426
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.839
But I want to focus on something for one second,

427
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:16.519
and that's the word minutes, because minutes is not a

428
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.279
short amount of time for someone to be stabbing you

429
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:24.240
upwards of sixty five times. I don't want to minimize

430
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:27.880
that when I say he was rendered unconscious within minutes.

431
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.000
Have you ever tried to run for minutes? That's hard enough.

432
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:35.440
Imagine fighting for your life at almost ninety years old.

433
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:40.599
As for Miss Claudia, her autopsy was just as horrible,

434
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.680
if you can even fathom it. When she was X rayed,

435
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.000
I told you, she too was found to have a

436
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.920
foreign object inside of her, but it was different than

437
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:53.519
mister Chips X ray, so the item inside of her

438
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.920
body seemed to be an electronic of some sort, but

439
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.480
that would have to be confirmed after her autopsy was pleated.

440
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.960
She too was covered in stab wounds, while the major

441
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.400
the majority of hers were focused mainly on her left

442
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.000
side of her body. So in total, she had been

443
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:17.839
stabbed seventy four times, along with other random cuts that

444
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:20.240
were on her body. So it's kind of a combination

445
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.279
of all of these wounds that were documented.

446
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:22.960
Now.

447
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.839
Miss Claudia's most significant injuries were on the left side

448
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.599
of her face, her neck, and her abdomen. Her face

449
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:35.759
was stabbed at an angle where it sliced through her

450
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.599
cheek and into her oral cavity or into her mouth.

451
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.359
There was another stab wound to the mouth that went

452
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.240
straight in so it knocked out one of her teeth.

453
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.920
There was a two to three inch stab on the

454
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:53.240
right side of her neck and that cut into an

455
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.160
upward angle, so the knife went into her neck, up

456
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.680
into her mouth, It went through her thyroid gland, and

457
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:04.480
it slice through her tongue. She suffered three stab wounds

458
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:09.039
into her back that were so powerful the knife hit

459
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:14.720
her spine. Her left side of her chest and her

460
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:19.680
left breast had suffered internal injuries and were described as

461
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:23.920
caused by a significant blow because blood clots had begun

462
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.079
forming around that area. And you know this, if you've

463
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.880
been a true crime fan for a while, that this

464
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.759
means you have to be alive. Your body is not

465
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.799
going to start sending or forming the enzymes to create

466
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.680
a blood clot unless you are alive and your body's

467
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:43.240
trying to repair itself. She had also been pulling blood

468
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:48.079
into her chest cavity where blood should not be. This

469
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:53.119
was beyond anything it would ever take to subdue an

470
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.960
elderly person if you, for any god forsaken reason needed to.

471
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:03.000
But she too had been dis boweled, and the item

472
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.039
that was removed from her abdomen was found to be

473
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:13.279
a Nokia cell phone. Again, someone had placed an electronic

474
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:20.039
on purpose inside of her body. Now that odd cut

475
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.839
that was on mister Chip's forehead. In that same fashion,

476
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.440
Miss Claudia also had some strange wounds on her body,

477
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:30.880
and particularly I'm going to talk about her leg because

478
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.839
the leg wound was done in a way that it

479
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.559
was sliced open and it exposed a fat layer in

480
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:43.759
her thigh. It was meticulous. It was on purpose, and

481
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:48.960
some of that fat had been pulled out from her body.

482
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:55.079
So everything considered, the realization in these reports was that

483
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.440
the killer had fun with their bodies after stabbing them.

484
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.359
I say had fun because that's the only thing I

485
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:08.119
can think to describe this. As he experimented and he

486
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:13.759
performed his own procedures on them. He took out their organs,

487
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.319
he placed household items within their stomach cavity, while also

488
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.359
pulling out fat and digging in the forehead of one

489
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:27.000
of his victims. The pathologist was very clear that the

490
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:29.640
high number of wounds on both of the victims' bodies

491
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:34.039
does not even come close to telling how horribly they

492
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:42.119
both suffered. This was not quick, This was not humane.

493
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:47.200
The victims both were absolutely alive, and every wound was

494
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.839
deep and painful when it was inflicted upon them. Once

495
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.200
all of this was documented and the reports were completed,

496
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.240
they were then turned over to the police for their investigation.

497
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:06.319
But that aside, how do you possibly begin to explain

498
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:10.119
everything that I just told you someone not related, someone

499
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.720
not involved in this? How do you possibly explain what

500
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:19.119
I just explained to you to the grieving family that

501
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:26.079
loved these two people. They thought twelve wounds was peak trauma.

502
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:32.480
Knowing what you know now, this was pure savagery. Both

503
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:35.960
deaths were obviously ruled a homicide and police now had

504
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.440
their work cut out for them. But the issues in

505
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:44.319
terms of evidence presented themselves pretty quickly. And by issues,

506
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.480
I mean problems, and by that I mean a complete

507
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:53.519
lack thereof Okay, there was no evidence to be found

508
00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:59.640
to start, The motive was confusing. Nothing was obviously missing

509
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.960
from the home, and the home wasn't ransacked or anything

510
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.680
along those lines. Aside from that cut screen. I know

511
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.279
right now, someone's going, well that's evidence. Yeah, Well, aside

512
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.279
from that cut screen, there was no evidence of anything else.

513
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.319
I mean, like I said, nothing was stolen. There were

514
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:19.880
presumed blood stains, and always they presumed until they're confirmed.

515
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.400
But those blood stains were located on the walls of

516
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:26.680
the bedroom and they extended into the master bathroom, and

517
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:31.119
you know that was that was expected. But whose blood

518
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.039
do you think it is? Obviously we're thinking, you know,

519
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:35.640
that's probably the victim's blood. And so once the bodies

520
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.279
had been removed, technicians came in and they were processing

521
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.079
the bed, and so they processed the top sheet, which,

522
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.039
by the way, in the sheet they found fifty seven

523
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.599
different stab holes in it. And then the fitted sheet

524
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:53.079
was processed and they did find what appeared to be

525
00:33:53.119 --> 00:34:01.680
a bloody left handprint pressed into the fabric. But this aside,

526
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:04.759
the home was neat, it was orderly, and there was

527
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:08.159
a total lack of physical evidence. There was no DNA,

528
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:12.039
there was no print that was found that was not

529
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:18.679
expected to be there, nothing when it was all processed. So,

530
00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.719
now that the autopsies had been performed, the medical examiner

531
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.360
was able to tell the investigators that they believe the

532
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.519
murder weapon was a knife and it had to have

533
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:30.639
been at least four inches long and with a non

534
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.679
serrated blade, meaning not jagged type of blade. So detectives

535
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.280
decided to go through the house and to look for

536
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:40.480
any type of weapon or knife that they could find

537
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:42.760
that might would fit that location. And when they were

538
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.280
in the kitchen, they did actually locate a knife they

539
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:49.159
thought might would fit, and it actually had this undetermined

540
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:53.159
red substance on the tip of it. The thing was

541
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:56.760
when it was sent to be evaluated, that's just what

542
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.599
it was. It was just an undetermined red substance. It

543
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.559
was not blood and that was not ruled as a

544
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:08.159
possible murder weapon. So the local police would end up

545
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:11.400
teaming up with a host of other agencies, including the FBI,

546
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:17.639
some experienced specialized task force members, lots of people that

547
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.039
had experience in trying to solve a case like this,

548
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.199
and they all were trying to work together to solve

549
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.199
it because it was extremely confusing. How could this have

550
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.760
been so brutal and nothing left behind by this killer?

551
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.280
And based on the level of viciousness at this scene,

552
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:39.400
law enforcement and profilers alike felt like this had to

553
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.880
be personal. This level of violence inflicted upon somebody had

554
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:49.039
had to be a personal vendetta applied here. Things that

555
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:51.960
are this up close and personal where you have to

556
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:54.960
take a knife, get that close up on somebody and

557
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.760
then just start stabbing them and then in the face

558
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:02.360
and all of that. The victim selection here was why

559
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.039
they came to that conclusion. They chose elderly people asleep

560
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.159
in their bed. They were able to get up close

561
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:12.599
and personal on them, and then it was absolute overkill.

562
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.280
And those are some of the things that led these

563
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:18.320
profilers to believe that this had to be personal. But

564
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:24.559
the FBI profilers weren't convinced as to how many people

565
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:26.679
may have acted in this case. They didn't know if

566
00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:30.079
it was one killer or if there were multiple. They

567
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:34.360
also thought that the cut on the screen on the window,

568
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.079
they weren't convinced that that was actually something to do

569
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:41.280
with what had happened, that maybe it had been more

570
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.639
of like a diversion tactic, and they kind of felt

571
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.920
like whoever came in the house may have used a

572
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.280
key to get in there, because there was no forced entry.

573
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:56.599
So the couple's poor housekeeper, the one that was just traumatically,

574
00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.880
you know, alerted through the news that the people she

575
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.159
loved and cared for all these years were deceased. She

576
00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:07.239
was called and she was ruled out as a possible suspect,

577
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.320
and the police decided to use her to go through

578
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:12.960
the home and identify if anything was missing that she

579
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:17.039
could tell. And mister Lando was undoubtedly shook up to

580
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:20.199
even enter the home knowing what she now knew, but

581
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.960
considering she had worked in that house for twelve years,

582
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:25.480
she was the best one to assess the home and

583
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:28.320
determine if anything was a miss So she walked through,

584
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:33.360
and emotional but steady, she went room by room, checking

585
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:36.760
things out and according to everything that she saw, nothing

586
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:40.679
was out of place. Everything was there, nothing was missing,

587
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.559
so motive. At this point, investigators were kind of clueless

588
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.719
because missus Claudia's purse was still on the scene as well.

589
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.440
It was filled with her credit cards still, so they

590
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.000
even contacted the credit card companies and said, can you

591
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.599
tell us if there's been any recent activity on these numbers,

592
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.840
but they said no, no one's used the credit cards,

593
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:04.400
there's been no strange banking activity, nothing, So the leads

594
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.960
were just slim. So going back to the drawing board,

595
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.480
the question became, okay, who knew the victim's best Well,

596
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:18.760
this would obviously be their children, so the next obvious

597
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.159
question was then, okay, well, if we think that the

598
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:24.880
killer used a key to get inside the house, the

599
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.280
screen cut was just a distraction, then who had a

600
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:33.039
key to the home? That said? Police interviewed all of

601
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:38.119
the adult children, but special attention was given to son Robert,

602
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:43.159
so after hours of questioning, he was really the one

603
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:46.719
that was put under the microscope because he was the

604
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:49.639
one who had a key to the house, and it

605
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.199
was curious at this point that he had gone by

606
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:54.880
the house and now police knew that he had a key,

607
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:59.880
but y'all, he said he never went inside the home. Okay, well, Robert,

608
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.119
if you thought that something was really wrong, why didn't

609
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:07.039
you use the key and go inside of the house. Well,

610
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:11.320
his answer was kind of like, well, everyone is different

611
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:15.079
and expectations aren't the same amongst everybody's families, and he

612
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.679
just didn't think it appropriate to bust up inside of

613
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:22.199
their home unannounced. So, in an effort to gather more

614
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:26.239
information on his possible involvement in the murder of his parents,

615
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.639
Robert's family life was looked into more closely, and that

616
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.480
included his two sons. So obviously police are now going

617
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:36.119
to dive in to check in on all of their

618
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.239
whereabouts and get their explanations of things. But police also

619
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:42.880
wanted to do a search of Robert's home to see

620
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.360
if there was anything there that might be of any

621
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:50.639
interest to the case. And immediately, immediately this would raise

622
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:56.960
eyebrows because for starters, Robert's carpet had just been steam cleaned,

623
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:00.519
and I mean as in the same day that the

624
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:04.880
murders took place. So why'd you clean your carpet, Robert?

625
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.320
Why would you do that? And Robert's answer was plainly

626
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:14.480
because it was dirty. I just was steam cleaning my carpet. Well,

627
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:18.320
continuing to search the home, police also uncovered some very

628
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:23.079
curious drawings. And when I say curious, disturbing is probably

629
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:28.760
way more accurate. So it was a sketch that was

630
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.719
on a loose leaf sheet of paper, and it was

631
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:35.079
drawn in black ink, and it's a bit chaotic. It's

632
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.920
like a scribbled picture, but clear, if that makes sense.

633
00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:43.199
The words ah like ahhhh like a scream was written

634
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:48.239
above an image that depicted a person holding a large

635
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:55.760
knife over a bed with two people in it asleep. Well,

636
00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:58.760
this is obviously something that can't be overlooked. So all

637
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.920
of the guys, d Robert and his two sons were

638
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.199
brought in for questioning by police, and they would continue

639
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.599
to be questioned over multiple days, long hours of intense questioning,

640
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.280
and they all complied. They all answered any questions that

641
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.199
were brought their way, and they all did this without

642
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:23.920
ever requesting an attorney. So while a picture on its

643
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.239
own is worth a thousand words, you know, the sketch,

644
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.239
it's worth a thousand words. Well so is a medical record.

645
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:35.880
What do I mean by that? Well, one of Robert's

646
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:44.119
sons Oliver. He was known already diagnosed with schizophrenia and

647
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.639
the family had been working valiantly to help manage and

648
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:51.199
mitigate this diagnosis. And in general, I do want to

649
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.920
tell you this. In general, drawing an art has been

650
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:58.840
a very valuable tool for therapists you know, across the

651
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:03.000
nation who work with patients who suffer with schizophrenia. And

652
00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:07.159
while it's a very complex disorder. In a nutshell, I'll

653
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.159
just add that art therapy is a very common method

654
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:14.599
that patients will use to express their thoughts and the

655
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:22.400
drawings can serve as therapeutic, nonverbal outlets for expressing these complex,

656
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:28.400
terrifying and a lot of times chaotic experiences that are

657
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:31.559
going through the schizophrenic person's head. And a lot of

658
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.440
times these are like vivid hallucinations and delusions. It's a

659
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:39.320
very traumatic experience for the person that's even experiencing it.

660
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:42.679
So much like the average person may go for a

661
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.400
run or a walk or work in their garden whenever

662
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.280
stress builds up, drawing can help those types of patients

663
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.719
alleviate the build up of stress when their schizophrenia is

664
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.519
kind of out of control. The art is going to

665
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:01.400
depict internal feelings rather than a literal reality. But when

666
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:04.079
it's hard to express yourself, drawing can be an easy

667
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:06.239
way to do that. And even some well known great minds,

668
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:08.840
by the way, have done strange things. And to that point,

669
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:12.199
even the likes of Vincent van Goh at one point

670
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:16.519
was considered to maybe have possibly suffered from schizophrenic episodes

671
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:20.320
because his art over time changed and was indicative of

672
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.960
him going through something, that's for sure. But here's the kicker.

673
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:27.760
After all of that is looked at, Oliver wasn't the

674
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.679
one who drew the picture. Wouldn't you have expected that? Yeah,

675
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.280
but Oliver didn't draw it. It was his brother Tony

676
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:40.000
who drew the photo. So why would Tony have drawn

677
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:44.880
something like this? And their investigation led them to tear

678
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:50.360
apart the home even further. Okay, so carpet was cut out,

679
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.639
even the sink fixtures and the bathrooms and in the

680
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:56.119
kitchens and all that those were removed and tested for

681
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:58.760
blood or DNA and the drains from you know, maybe

682
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:02.440
someone washed their hands whatever. And as police pondered this

683
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.960
recently cleaned carpet and the pretty accurate drawing of murder

684
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.679
that just occurred, they would need more physical evidence to

685
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:15.159
support their theory of the family possibly being involved in

686
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:19.679
this double murder. So weeks would pass without an arrest

687
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:21.800
in the case, but it was still being worked even

688
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.519
the FBI, like I told you, they came in and

689
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.559
they were speaking and interviewing anybody that could possibly be

690
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.159
involved in the case. Meanwhile, while that's happening, the family

691
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:37.320
was completely adamant that they didn't do anything. And the

692
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:41.159
grandsons that were being focused on, they one hundred percent

693
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:45.559
adored their grandfather Chip. I mean, they spent a lot

694
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.199
of time with him, a lot of time very very close.

695
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:50.400
So that wasn't even something that the family was even

696
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.960
willing to entertain. Nope, you were hitting a brick wall

697
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.679
with the family. Absolutely not. That is not even a

698
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.360
possible scenario that you were bringing our way. And the

699
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.719
family did get upset by this, and they did even

700
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.920
go to the extent of hiring an attorney for Tony

701
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:09.960
as it became rather clear that eyes were now starting

702
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:15.840
to really focus on Tony the grandson. But as more

703
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:19.360
days and these weeks were passing, there was someone else

704
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:24.840
in town who was starting to feel a bit uneasy.

705
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.039
He was feeling so uneasy that he decided, at seventeen

706
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.199
years old that he was going to make a call

707
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:34.880
to nine one one. He would call in and he

708
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.119
would go on to detail that he thought he knew

709
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:44.719
who the killer was in the double homicide, and when

710
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.079
directly asked by the dispatcher, okay, if you know who

711
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:50.760
did it, who is it, he gave a name. He said,

712
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:55.880
it's my best friend. His name is Daniel Marsh. So

713
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.199
nine one one operators took in the information and they

714
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.000
turned that directly over to investigators, and they wanted to

715
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:04.400
question him about his relationship with Daniel and why he

716
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:06.159
would think he needed to call nine to one one

717
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:09.440
on his best friend. Well, they had been friends since

718
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.800
twenty twelve. They had met through another friend. They all

719
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.599
liked music. They had gotten together to make a band.

720
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:19.639
They it was a metal like you know metal band,

721
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.960
and the three of them would practice two to three

722
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.599
times a week at the house. And while the Alva

723
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:29.639
kid quit the band, the other two, Daniel and Kevin,

724
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.800
they they kind of stayed friends. Well, why did Alva

725
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.159
quit the band? What happened there? Well, he said, well

726
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:39.679
he thought that Daniel was dangerous and so he had

727
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:42.000
voiced that to me and then he just kind of

728
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.519
dropped us both and he stopped talking to us all together.

729
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:48.719
So was it jealousy? Was it? You know, three's a

730
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:52.079
crowd and the friendship. It wasn't quite clear why they

731
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.440
you know, why they kind of fell apart, other than

732
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:58.119
he thought Daniel was dangerous. So Kevin and Daniel remained friends,

733
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.199
and they would do things like play video games games

734
00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:05.599
like World of Warcraft and League of Legends, and you know,

735
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:07.880
there were little edgier kids. I guess you would say

736
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:11.800
they did partake in some frowned upon activities for teenagers.

737
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.280
They like to drink and smoke weed and all that

738
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:18.480
kind of stuff. So, okay, police are taking all this

739
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:20.559
in and like, tell us more though of why you

740
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:24.079
think this Daniel guy may have killed this elderly couple.

741
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.079
And Kevin says, well, Daniel likes to watch horror movies

742
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.920
and he really loves this website called Bestgore dot Com.

743
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:35.760
Now I went and looked up bestcore dot com, by

744
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.960
the way, because inquiring minds want to know. And the

745
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.159
nature of the content of that site is literally right

746
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:48.000
there in the title. But it features real life gore,

747
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:54.000
like real life gore death and dismemberment and watching young

748
00:47:54.119 --> 00:48:00.920
children get decapitated, rapes, horrific injuries, things that would be

749
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:07.679
upsetting to the average joe. He really really liked that website,

750
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:11.320
and he was also infatuated with Ted Bundy and other

751
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:15.159
serial killers, and so much so that he kept a

752
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:23.800
notebook with drawings detailing different ways to torture and abuse people. Okay, well,

753
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:27.239
from the eyes of the police, they're like, that makes

754
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.920
you morbid and creepy as hell, but that doesn't mean

755
00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:32.159
you're a killer. Man, Like, we need more than that.

756
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:36.440
And quite frankly, what you're telling us doesn't align with

757
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.920
the thoughts, the theories and the bit of evidence we

758
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:43.880
may have in the case thus far. It's actually not

759
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:49.920
even close. So police then started thinking about what all

760
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:53.079
this kid was saying, and they wondered, maybe if he

761
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.159
was the killer, how did he how did he know

762
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:02.280
things that he knew Because as he expanded on that,

763
00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:08.119
he knew way too much, like way too much in

764
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.480
terms of details of the crime, and some of those

765
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:17.440
things were things that only the killer would know. For example,

766
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:21.199
that there was an attempted eyeball removal, some of the

767
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.320
cuts in the face. I believe it was of Miss Claudia,

768
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:28.159
but there was an attempted eyeball removal and he knew

769
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.639
that that had not been released to the public, so

770
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:34.960
they call him back in. They ended up interviewing this

771
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.960
kid twice because they really started thinking he might be

772
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:41.519
the killer, and he had inserted himself into the investigation,

773
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:43.920
which is actually kind of a common thing to happen.

774
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:47.199
So the question became, Okay, if you know all of this,

775
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:50.280
it's been like months, Okay, why did you wait so

776
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:53.000
long to come and tell us this if you already

777
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.159
knew this and you're so afraid that now you need

778
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:58.880
you need to tell us. But his answer was, well,

779
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:03.039
because I was afraid. I was terrified of what he

780
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.159
might be capable of doing, and so I kind of

781
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:08.719
just didn't come to you until now. And here's the thing.

782
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:11.800
Police are listening to all of this, but they already

783
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:15.000
knew the name Daniel Marsh. It was actually a well

784
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:18.159
known name. Even the district attorney knew who he was,

785
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:21.880
but not because it was something bad. It was actually

786
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:26.880
quite literally the opposite of bad. Daniel Marsh was a

787
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:32.000
locally known hero. In two thousand and nine, when Daniel

788
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:33.840
Marsh was riding in the car with his dad. They

789
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.840
were in the family station wagon. His dad kind of

790
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:39.679
fell back and went limp while driving down the road,

791
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:43.519
and Daniel, at only like ten years old, had the

792
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:47.519
presence of mind to grab the steering wheel steer the

793
00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.280
car to safety, all while applying the brakes carefully and

794
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:54.519
getting the car off to the side of the road.

795
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:56.599
Is a very young kid. He did this. Not only

796
00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:59.400
did he avoid major casualties that could have happened on

797
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.920
the roadway when he stopped the car, he got out

798
00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:05.880
and he gave his dad CPR as best as he

799
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.559
knew how until help arrived. And it turns out that

800
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:11.760
his dad had been suffering a heart attack and his

801
00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:17.239
actions that day saved his dad's life and also stopped

802
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.599
any potential for hurting other people as the car barreled

803
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.719
down the road. That had been just four years back

804
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.199
when he was honored by the Red Cross and he

805
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:28.840
had been awarded their Hero's Award for saving his dad.

806
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:32.679
It was televised. It was a huge ordeal and he

807
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.199
was a young kid who did this amazing thing. So

808
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:41.079
now here's another teen directly pointing and accusing this hero

809
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:46.199
of a double homicide. But police were still intrigued and

810
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:48.480
they had to follow up on the lead just to

811
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:53.000
rule it out. So it just didn't seem right that

812
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.920
kid Daniel was looking to be very successful now and

813
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.639
the current time that that was happening, he was only

814
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:02.360
fifteen years old, and there was no connection between Daniel

815
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:07.519
and the Northops, so it was just far fetched. The

816
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:10.360
family of the victims they had never even heard of

817
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:12.719
Daniel Marsh before either, and so they couldn't give any

818
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:15.559
insight on why this kid would be a person of interest.

819
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:19.159
They never met him, never knew him, never nothing. So

820
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:23.119
police wanted to go check him out and see what

821
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:27.079
he was about. So they ended up at Daniel's dad.

822
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:32.039
His name was Bill, Daniel's dad's house, and they knocked

823
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:35.239
on the door and Bill was pretty slow to get

824
00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:38.320
up to the door. So when he opened it and

825
00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:40.760
they started explaining they were the police, he was a

826
00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:44.519
little bit slow because he was recovering from back surgery. Now,

827
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:48.039
immediate questioning would reveal that Bill, first of all, he

828
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:50.920
didn't know the Northops either. He had no idea who

829
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:55.320
they were. The only thing even remotely possible of a

830
00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:58.239
connection that the police were able to make was that

831
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:05.719
Bill had previous lived a few doors down from the Northops,

832
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:09.119
but Daniel lived with his mother Sherry at the time,

833
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:14.000
not with his dad, and so Bill told the police, yeah,

834
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.280
I don't I don't live there anymore because I couldn't

835
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:21.079
afford the rent, so I had to move out. He said.

836
00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.079
The only reason he had even lived there for that

837
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:26.400
period of time was because that home was walking distance

838
00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:29.000
to the mother, Sherry's house, and so the you know,

839
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.920
the kids could walk back and forth. Well, a neighbor

840
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:35.159
came up and would approach the police, and he would

841
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:36.840
make mention of the fact that the police, well, you know,

842
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.840
Bill moved out of that house right after the murders happened.

843
00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:46.760
Timing is a bit odd. And another neighbor also said, yeah,

844
00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:49.360
I mean I know Bill lived there, and I would

845
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.840
occasionally see a teen boy that he thought was Bill's

846
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:55.320
son ride up on a bike or a skateboard, but

847
00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.840
he said he hadn't seen that kid in months. He

848
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.960
also added that the owner of the home where Bill

849
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:04.000
had lived, the one that he had moved out of,

850
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.159
that was owned by an elderly lady who he was

851
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:09.840
renting from, but she had just died a week before

852
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:13.400
the murders. Happened, and her family decided to put the

853
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:17.000
residents up for sale a few weeks later, And that

854
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:19.079
is why the neighbors said, as far as he knew,

855
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:23.599
Bill moved out, it wasn't anything nefarious. So all in all,

856
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:27.320
everything Bill said and everything that the neighbor said seemed

857
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:29.440
to line up and check out when they looked deep

858
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:33.920
into it. But one thing Bill said stuck in the

859
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:38.800
minds of detectives. If Bill's home, the previous one he

860
00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:41.800
had moved out of, was walking distance to his ex

861
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:47.480
wife's house, then that would obviously mean that it was

862
00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:55.039
also walking distance to the Northip's house. But why had

863
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:59.039
this Daniel Marsha's best friend randomly called two months after

864
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:03.679
the murders if he knew that Daniel had supposedly killed

865
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:08.280
these two people. So again, all of it's just not

866
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:12.079
it's not jiving. So that friend, like I said, he

867
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:14.559
had come back in for that second interview and he

868
00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:18.000
was questioned. Now that interview was recorded, So in that

869
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:21.360
recording again they addressed the fact that you've waited so long,

870
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:25.719
why come forward now, And the friend goes in further

871
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:28.880
detail and says, well, that's not exactly how this went.

872
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.599
It was more of a progression of information that led

873
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:34.760
me to make the nine one one call. So he

874
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:38.360
said that Daniel told him on April fourteenth that he

875
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:42.719
had committed the double murders, but the friends just didn't

876
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.559
want to hear it. The friend group, you know, he

877
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:46.920
was like, whatever, you're lying. You're just trying to you know,

878
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.280
because he was obsessed with the gore and all that

879
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:50.360
kind of stuff. You're lying, you didn't do this. Whatever.

880
00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:54.199
But the next day Daniel told the story again at

881
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.960
school during lunch, and he added that he was going

882
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:02.360
to be on the news. So the thing was, the

883
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:06.519
murders hadn't been headlining everywhere, though, even considering how grotesque

884
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:10.519
this was, because another huge event had taken over nationally,

885
00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:13.199
and you're going to know this event. It's the Boston bombing.

886
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.239
The Boston bombing took place right at that time, and

887
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:19.079
that took over the national news. So now there were

888
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:23.719
even more questions. How and why did Chip and Claudia's

889
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:27.679
grandson draw an image eerily similar to the actual murder

890
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:31.039
scene if he knew nothing about it? Number two, how

891
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:35.000
did a local teenager know details that only the killer

892
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:39.920
would know if he weren't involved? And then number three.

893
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:43.360
If the killer had been confessing to everyone around him

894
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:46.360
that he had done this, why had no one else

895
00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:49.159
said anything? And why had this friend waited until right

896
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:52.480
now to call the police. Was it possible that he

897
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.599
was trying to pass the blame? This friend was did

898
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:57.639
he actually do it and he wanted to pass the

899
00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:01.519
blame to get ahead of suspicion on him. But the

900
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:06.199
team being questioned said, the answer to that last question

901
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:10.280
was simple. The reason that he had come forward now

902
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:12.960
was not only because he was scared, but he said,

903
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:17.760
Daniel is now threatening to kill again. And he said,

904
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:21.039
I'm scared for my life. I'm scared for my family's

905
00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:25.199
life because if he killed these other people, he's capable

906
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:27.599
of doing it to me. And he said, look, even

907
00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.519
Daniel's girlfriend can verify what I'm telling you. So Daniel

908
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:33.320
did have a girlfriend, and police went and spoke to

909
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:37.679
the girlfriend and guess what she did confirm. Daniel had

910
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:41.599
asked her specifically if she had heard about the murders

911
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.360
that had taken place in town, and she told him no.

912
00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:50.119
When she did, he then started describing in detail what

913
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:55.679
had happened at the murders. So police contacted the school

914
00:57:55.719 --> 00:57:58.440
where Daniel Marsh was enrolled and spoke to the sr. Oh,

915
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:00.519
they're the school resource officer, and so look, I need

916
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:01.840
you to get this kid. I need you to bring

917
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:03.800
him in. We need to do some questioning of him

918
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:07.079
in relation to a double homicide. And when Daniel was

919
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:12.880
brought in, he looked a bit surprising compared to what

920
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:16.440
I guess police thought they would get. He was a thin,

921
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:20.519
small kid. He looked like a gamer kind of guy.

922
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:28.039
Black clothing and long, dirty blonde hair just past his shoulders.

923
00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:30.079
Kind of like the band Hansen, you remember them. He

924
00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:32.320
kind of had that look about him. But he was

925
00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:36.280
very polite. He shook hands with the officers. He wasn't

926
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.719
nervous at all when he was answering questions. He was

927
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.119
very open when talking. He didn't seem guarded at all,

928
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.880
and they questioned him for upwards of three hours at

929
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:52.639
this period. He was very upfront, easy to talk to.

930
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:56.599
He discussed that his home life had, you know, had

931
00:58:56.599 --> 00:59:00.079
a few troubles. His parents had split, and that was

932
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:03.639
kind of a different situation too. When his parents split,

933
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:07.280
it was because his mother started having an affair with

934
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:13.320
his kindergarten teacher, which was a woman. So Daniel hated

935
00:59:13.719 --> 00:59:16.840
his teacher for that, and he even told the police man,

936
00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:19.679
I wanted to strangle her. I wanted to strangle that woman.

937
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:21.800
She broke up my parents' marriage, and now my mom's

938
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:25.679
in a in a relationship with my kindergarten teacher. So

939
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:29.480
while they're discussing that, an officer that was that was

940
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:33.199
interviewing noticed that there were some scars on his arms,

941
00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:35.440
and they were like, what's that about. What are these

942
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:38.960
these cuts on your arms? And he said that he

943
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:41.880
had been taking it very hard since all of that happened.

944
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:44.920
It happened right after his dad's heart attacks, within a

945
00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:47.199
little time frame of that, and he said that he

946
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.880
started hurting himself to deal with the anger. He was

947
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:55.639
cutting himself. And his parents were very aware of these issues.

948
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:59.000
They were they were serious, and they were actively working

949
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:01.079
to get him help for this, for his anxiety, for

950
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:04.480
his depression, and he'd even gone to the extent that

951
01:00:04.519 --> 01:00:08.880
he started to starve himself. This got so bad that

952
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:12.639
he was committed to an eating disorder clinic for nearly

953
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:15.199
a month to try to get him back on track.

954
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:18.000
He was struggling so bad, but it had helped, and

955
01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:21.960
so he had obviously been released from the facility. And

956
01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:24.079
it may come as no surprise to you, it didn't

957
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:27.519
to me, because you know, this is very unfortunately common

958
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:30.000
in kids that are suffering. But he also had been

959
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:34.519
very suicidal. He had attempted suicide four times in the past,

960
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:38.000
but he was now medicated and he was just doing

961
01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:45.239
really well. Now that's what Daniel's explanation of things were.

962
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:48.639
But looking into school records, they would be able to

963
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.880
confirm that he had really been struggling, because he even

964
01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:53.880
had told a school counselor in the past that he

965
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.760
had fantasized about killing people. Now, was that his mother's

966
01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:00.679
new lover or was that just people in general? You know,

967
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:02.719
I don't have the answer for you on that, but

968
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:05.719
he had fantasized about it. The school counselor took it

969
01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:08.960
so seriously and they were so concerned at what he

970
01:01:09.079 --> 01:01:11.719
was saying that they had brought the police into the

971
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:17.440
school and he had been hospitalized for that event as well. Now,

972
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:23.159
when he was confronted about talking with people about this

973
01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:27.880
couple that died or may have been killed during this questioning,

974
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:31.760
he denied all of that. In the interview with the police,

975
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:35.079
not only did he deny it, but he became emotional

976
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.559
and he told the police at one point, you know

977
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:41.480
you're scaring me, you're threatening me. You know, this is

978
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:44.920
this is this is bad. And this is a direct quote.

979
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:48.679
He said. If you want to help me, don't ruin

980
01:01:48.760 --> 01:01:51.000
my life. You know, I feel like you're trying to

981
01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:53.880
ruin my life. If anything, send me to a psychiatric hospital.

982
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:56.079
But don't sit here and accuse me of something, I mean,

983
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:59.960
because of my past or whatever. But by this point

984
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:03.519
the interview, it just was very obvious that the police

985
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:08.079
were dealing with a very damaged, unhinged as far as

986
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:12.800
the mind went. Individual. But what exactly did that mean

987
01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:15.920
in terms of this investigation of this murder, because there

988
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:19.159
was no evidence of anything other than him having been

989
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:23.199
struggling mentally, and he explained to them. He was very,

990
01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:27.719
very open. He continued to talk to investigators for hours

991
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:31.039
about how he did have bad thoughts and all of that.

992
01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:32.559
I mean, Elly had tried to kill himself and he

993
01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:35.920
was put in a hospital. But he said something to

994
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:40.199
investigators I think that would make anyone uncomfortable. But he

995
01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:42.519
said something a couple hours into the interview that I

996
01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:47.400
think would make anyone uncomfortable, and he told the investigator, Look,

997
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:52.159
anytime I see someone, I do see images flashing of

998
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:56.360
me killing them. You know, that's just something that happens.

999
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:00.360
He explained that when he was ten that he not

1000
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:02.679
only wanted to strangle his teacher, but he had planned

1001
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:05.920
to slit his teacher's throat. But he said, you know,

1002
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.840
I have good reason. The only reason I was thinking

1003
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:11.760
those thoughts is because he had broken up my parents' marriage. Well,

1004
01:03:11.800 --> 01:03:16.199
expanding on that thought, he then went on and he

1005
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:19.400
confessed to them, look, and I am obsessed with gore

1006
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:24.800
porn also, So gore porn is like gore, but add sex,

1007
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:27.199
a sexual element to it, you know, like murder and

1008
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.440
stabbing in sex and all that kind of stuff. So

1009
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:33.920
the thing was about that is that that did align

1010
01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:38.159
with what his best friend had originally claimed that he

1011
01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:42.199
was obsessed with this gore, and now he was openly

1012
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:46.599
admitting he was fascinated with it. He even said that

1013
01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.760
he had once strangled a cat in the street because

1014
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:51.559
he hated it so much. So now we're adding an

1015
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.880
element of animal torture and murder. I don't know, do

1016
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:58.679
we say murder animals, but the death of an animal. Okay, So,

1017
01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:01.639
feeling at at this point in the interview like Daniel

1018
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:06.840
may have been on the cusp of saying more, the detective,

1019
01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:10.639
just on instinct, decided to take his shot, and he

1020
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:14.280
directly asked the question, all right, Daniel, when did you

1021
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:16.280
start planning to kill the people down the street from

1022
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:20.679
your dad's house? And that's when fifteen year old Daniel

1023
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:25.199
Marsh answered that question by saying when he had reached

1024
01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:29.440
a boiling point, he couldn't take it anymore and had

1025
01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:33.840
gone out looking for anyone to kill the night of

1026
01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:40.079
Claudia and Chips murders. He just said it.

1027
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:40.280
It was.

1028
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:44.519
The detective asked, just on an instinct, and he said it.

1029
01:04:44.679 --> 01:04:51.119
He answered that question. Now they're like, oh, okay, well

1030
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:53.119
we'll tell us why did you pick that house then?

1031
01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:56.280
And he said, oh, well, I was drawn to it

1032
01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:59.599
because I could see inside this big living room window

1033
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:04.480
that they had. Guys, they did have an open, big

1034
01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:09.960
living room window. Seeing inside that window that night, it

1035
01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:15.360
got his blood pumping and his adrenaline racing, and believing

1036
01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:18.920
that this was the home he was compelled to enter.

1037
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:23.199
He slinked around the back where he saw another window

1038
01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:27.079
and he cut the screen to make entry, not even

1039
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:28.960
knowing who was inside.

1040
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:31.840
I got a hole on the screen, climbed in through

1041
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:38.599
the back, went to their bedroom, opened the door, and

1042
01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:40.880
they just kind of stood over their bed, watching the

1043
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:45.880
sleep for a few minutes. My body was trembling. I

1044
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:52.280
was nervous, but excited and exhilarated. I was actually going

1045
01:05:52.360 --> 01:05:55.960
to do it. I was there. It's finally happening.

1046
01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:00.639
Did you just hear that little laugh and that sigh?

1047
01:06:01.519 --> 01:06:07.719
His descriptors of the upcoming events as exhilarating and exciting.

1048
01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:12.599
Those are his words. His description is what I would

1049
01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:15.280
have used to describe how it feels before going on

1050
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.320
a huge roller coaster. Do not let this get lost

1051
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:22.360
on you. That those words he just said. That description

1052
01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:30.480
is how he felt before murdering two innocent people. So

1053
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:34.360
he broke in to their house, made his way back

1054
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:39.719
to the bedroom where he stood over that couple and

1055
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:44.280
he just watched. They were none the wiser. He stood

1056
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:47.920
there in the dark, listening to them sleep, letting his

1057
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:52.719
adrenaline build up in his body until he physically said

1058
01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:57.840
he couldn't take it anymore. This is what nightmares are

1059
01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:01.480
made of. But this was unforce fortunately, just the beginning

1060
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:06.400
of the depravity to come, because with zero emotion, sitting

1061
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:09.880
upright and arms resting on the chair as if discussing

1062
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:13.079
a hunting trip of some sorts, he then explained how

1063
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:15.880
he had come well prepared for that night that he

1064
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:18.840
was going to take someone's life. Before he had even

1065
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:22.000
taken to the streets on that fateful evening, he had

1066
01:07:22.039 --> 01:07:25.280
taken measures to hide what he was planning to do.

1067
01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:29.400
He had carefully taped the bottom of his shoes in

1068
01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:33.920
preparation to leave no prints in whoever's home he would enter.

1069
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:37.760
The duct tape has colorful skulls and things of that

1070
01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:40.480
nature on it. Taped to the bottom of his shoes,

1071
01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:45.800
he had put on gloves so that he wouldn't leave

1072
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.920
any fingerprints on anything that he touched. And he had

1073
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:52.039
stowed a ski mask that he would put on before

1074
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:54.960
making entry so he would not leave any DNA and

1075
01:07:55.039 --> 01:07:58.480
nobody would be able to identify him. And once he

1076
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:02.119
was inside of that house, he watched that elderly couple's

1077
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:07.039
sleep peacefully, and in that moment he felt like God

1078
01:08:07.519 --> 01:08:10.840
because he was about to have ultimate control and ultimate

1079
01:08:10.920 --> 01:08:13.760
say so in the events that were to come and

1080
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:17.000
to unfold right there in that house, and one can

1081
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:21.520
only imagine the still cool night as mister Chip lay

1082
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:24.600
peacefully on his back and miss Claudia snuggled up right

1083
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.760
beside him on her right side, And when the adrenaline

1084
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:33.000
peaked and he was at top hype of the emotion

1085
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:36.479
that he was feeling, he pounced on the bed, jumped

1086
01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:40.399
on the couple, and he started stabbing down, forcefully and

1087
01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:43.199
wildly on the couple. As mister Chip awoke to the

1088
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:47.319
knife penetrating both he and his wife's bodies, and not

1089
01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:51.199
knowing who or what was attacking them, he instinctively was

1090
01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:53.560
raising up his arms and his legs to try to

1091
01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:57.239
defend himself against the slicing and the stabbing, and he

1092
01:08:57.359 --> 01:09:01.399
undoubtedly yelled out in both warning to his beloved Claudia,

1093
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:04.399
but also in an immeasurable amount of pain, as this

1094
01:09:04.479 --> 01:09:07.760
knife was slicing in his arms and his legs, and

1095
01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:10.880
his chest and his throat, and going straight through the

1096
01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:14.359
tendons in his hands as well as through his thigh.

1097
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:18.920
And it was dark, this room was dark. Neither of

1098
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:21.720
this couple could see the murderous enemy on the other

1099
01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:24.840
end of the knife. All they knew was that they

1100
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.000
had to fight for their lives against an unknown assailant,

1101
01:09:28.239 --> 01:09:32.640
but within seconds they were both just bleeding everywhere. They

1102
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:38.159
were injured nearly everywhere, and as the knife penetrated into

1103
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:42.840
mister Chip's chest over and over again, blood started pulling

1104
01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:47.279
in his chest cavity, and that knife had broken his ribs,

1105
01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:51.199
it had punctured his lung. It made it incredibly hard

1106
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:55.039
for him to breathe. Mister Chip's adrenaline also now pumping

1107
01:09:55.399 --> 01:09:58.479
just wildly in an effort to save his own life,

1108
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:03.479
but that adrenaline would also prove counterproductive because as Daniel

1109
01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:08.000
swung that blade wildly into both victims, he sliced into

1110
01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:12.079
mister Chip's throat, dissecting his jugular, which pumped out more

1111
01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:17.239
blood at a rate that was completely unsustainable with life.

1112
01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:20.760
It happened within moments, and while the killer continued to

1113
01:10:20.840 --> 01:10:25.079
drive the knife downward and nothing short of overkill, he

1114
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:28.640
was also cutting Miss Claudia at the same time. Both

1115
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:32.239
of these people were elderly, they were unable to get

1116
01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:36.920
up quickly, especially from the position on their back, with

1117
01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:41.199
massive injuries to their bodies. The killer, once he was

1118
01:10:42.039 --> 01:10:44.800
thrilled with what he had done to mister Chip, and

1119
01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:47.199
felt like he couldn't do much more. That's when the

1120
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:51.119
killer focused his attention completely on miss Claudia, and he

1121
01:10:51.239 --> 01:10:56.560
continued the murderous attack upon her in such rapid succession

1122
01:10:56.760 --> 01:11:00.720
that she couldn't have done anything but scream, her face,

1123
01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:06.560
her neck, and her abdomen being eviscerated, the knife destroying

1124
01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:10.279
her face, her mouth, her teeth being knocked out. While

1125
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:13.239
she tried to get away, her tongue was sliced. She

1126
01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:16.079
couldn't have made words if she wanted to. As she

1127
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:19.399
rolled away from the direction of the pain, the knife

1128
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:25.039
penetrated her in the back, spiking her spine three times,

1129
01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:30.560
and unable to effectively move any more, she then bled

1130
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:35.239
out and died right there in the bed, next to

1131
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:42.720
her beloved Chip. In the dark and when the killer

1132
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:47.720
was confident that his victims had no fight left in them,

1133
01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:52.800
he fell back and slumped onto his heels to take

1134
01:11:52.800 --> 01:11:57.479
a breath to let his endorphins flow. His head, looking

1135
01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:01.079
up at the ceiling, eyes closed, was letting all of

1136
01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:05.239
those endorphins and that dopamine pomp through his body while

1137
01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:10.119
he savored the climax of the moment he had dreamed

1138
01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:17.039
of for so long and in the stillness and the

1139
01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:21.920
quiet of that home. Their killer was out of breath

1140
01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:27.960
and covered in their blood from head to toe. But

1141
01:12:28.079 --> 01:12:34.079
he wasn't done. With the smell of blood filling the

1142
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:39.239
air a sensory confirmation that the scene was now nothing

1143
01:12:39.279 --> 01:12:44.399
short of a fucking massacre, he wanted to see the

1144
01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:47.720
damage he had done to his victims in the dark,

1145
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:52.680
but for that he would need some light. So he

1146
01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:55.680
climbed from the bed and felt along the wall until

1147
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:59.000
he hit the light switch, and in an instant he

1148
01:12:59.039 --> 01:13:04.039
flipped it on, and the results of his attack were horrific,

1149
01:13:05.439 --> 01:13:11.159
and he loved it. He stood there, eyes wide open

1150
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:15.359
as he took in everything that he had just done

1151
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:21.399
to his victims in a devilish smile slowly formed behind

1152
01:13:21.399 --> 01:13:27.840
the mask on his face. Murder alone was not enough

1153
01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:31.720
to get this guy off, though. It wasn't enough that

1154
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:38.800
he had just taken to beautiful, wonderful, intelligent, funny, smart,

1155
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:44.439
and valuable souls. Death was only part of his excitement,

1156
01:13:45.520 --> 01:13:47.199
but he was now ready to take it to the

1157
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:51.960
next level. The things that that website he was so

1158
01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:57.079
obsessed with had shown him. He loved the gore, but

1159
01:13:57.319 --> 01:14:02.000
now he wanted to make his own. He wanted to

1160
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:04.880
place his victims in the perfect position for what he

1161
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:07.920
had planned for them. And when he got the couple

1162
01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:10.760
on their backs where he could get a good look

1163
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:16.640
at them, that was when he started his experimentation. He

1164
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:22.199
sliced the couple open and reached his hands into their abdomens,

1165
01:14:22.960 --> 01:14:27.039
pulling out their organs with no real purpose except to

1166
01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:31.239
destroy and look at the innards of a human being.

1167
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:35.880
He would reach in and pull out whatever he could grab,

1168
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:39.000
and he would look it over in his hands and

1169
01:14:39.079 --> 01:14:42.279
inspect it before dropping it to the side and reaching

1170
01:14:42.319 --> 01:14:47.800
in again and grabbing another handful. After some time and

1171
01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:50.439
he had pulled out enough of their innards and he

1172
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:53.520
could see inside of the cavity, he decided it was

1173
01:14:53.560 --> 01:14:57.159
time to start inserting things into the bodies, just for

1174
01:14:57.239 --> 01:15:00.439
the added shock of it for whomever would be the

1175
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:06.359
unfortunate person to find mister Chip and miss Claudia. The

1176
01:15:06.479 --> 01:15:11.479
cruelty here it was so deliberate, and it wasn't enough

1177
01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:15.560
for him to end two lives. He wanted everyone to

1178
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:19.439
see how little he cared about who he had killed.

1179
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:24.119
His vision was to force responders not only to see

1180
01:15:24.119 --> 01:15:27.520
his work, but to strip the victims down to nothing

1181
01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:31.920
more than his trophies, the horrific details of their demise

1182
01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:37.760
forever to be memorialized to him in that coroner's report.

1183
01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:42.039
And just when you think that this story can't possibly

1184
01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:47.640
escalate anymore, a revelation will be made. And the truth

1185
01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:51.119
is that the outcome of this story is gonna get

1186
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:54.960
even uglier. But it will take me two episodes to

1187
01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.239
tell it all to you, So if you think that

1188
01:15:58.279 --> 01:16:00.159
you can bear it, stay hi.