June 9, 2026

Part 3 | Bullet in the Brain: The Shocking Ryan Waller Case

Part 3 | Bullet in the Brain: The Shocking Ryan Waller Case

Part 3 OF 3 On Christmas Day 2006, 18-year-old Ryan Waller and his girlfriend Heather Quan became victims of a brutal home invasion in Phoenix, Arizona. Heather was murdered. Ryan was shot twice in the head and somehow survived — with bullet fragments...

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Season 10
Part 3 OF 3
On Christmas Day 2006, 18-year-old Ryan Waller and his girlfriend Heather Quan became victims of a brutal home invasion in Phoenix, Arizona. Heather was murdered. Ryan was shot twice in the head and somehow survived — with bullet fragments still lodged deep in his brain.
What followed was one of the most controversial police interrogations ever recorded. Despite his severe injuries, Ryan was questioned for several hours before receiving full medical treatment. The footage of that interview, in which he appears disoriented and struggling to stay conscious, has since become one of the most talked-about moments in true-crime history.
In this episode, KJ examines the interrogation video, the investigation that followed, the search for the real perpetrators, and the long-term impact the events had on Ryan’s life. It’s a powerful story of the most unforgettable cases in modern true crime.

Timestamps
09:12 The Dead Iguana Story
16:20 Larry’s Confession
28:48 Brenda Tells All
37:00 The Iguana Lie Exposed
46:24 The Earlier House Drama
56:16 Alicia’s Harrowing Discovery
58:49 Charges and Fallout
1:02:22 Case Takes a Dark Turn
WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast. Or I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended

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for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ

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you're back another episode of Unspeakable. I know you've been waiting.

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You're like, oh my god, how are there three parts

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to this? There are? It's because there are, and I

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have don Hella research to bring all this to you.

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So we're gonna jump back in. But first let me

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do a couple of shout outs. And I'm gonna start

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in Santan Valley, Arizona, where I have got miss Nicki French.

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What's going on? NICKI? How are you doing? Glad to

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have you join. You have a cute name too, Nicki French.

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I think that's really cute, So glad to have you.

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And then I'm gonna jump right here in my backyard

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in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where I have Jackie Mayhew. Hi Jackie,

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where are you at in Baton Rouge? Tell me some stuff.

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I went to school in high school in Baton Rouge.

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I went to Broadmoor. So are you around that area

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where yeat? Message me let me know. I'm curious, and

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then I'm gonna finish off today in Oakalla, Florida, where

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I have Miss Nicole Dupree. Nicole, what is going on?

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My friend? Thank you so much for joining the Patreon.

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We're stoked to have you here. We can chat, we

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can do all sorts of things on their so y'all

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talk to me. That's why I'm there. I love chit chatting.

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You can see pictures, crime scene stuff, video, just certain

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things that I'll go and I'll add in there on

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these episodes as I cover them. But and I'm not

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going to leave Florida just yet, because Nicole, I have girl.

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Are you listening to me? Are you really listening to

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me right now? Are you watching the screen while I'm

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talking to you? I hope that you're paying close close

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attention because you're busy right now being a newly promoted

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boss over some ultrasound peeps. That's what I have been told,

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because your girl Jackie reached out to me and she

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told me that she's just extremely proud of you. She

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is happy to see that you have gotten promoted and

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that you're just killing it over there. And so I

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wanted to just be special here just for you, jump

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on that bandwagon and tell you that I'm proud of

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you too. I'm excited for you as a woman's woman.

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Anytime someone gets promoted in their job and then all

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their friends are rally around, I'm telling him that you're

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just doing a great job. I just want to back

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that up. So your friend Jackie said she just wanted

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to make sure you know that everyone in the clinic

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is proud of you. I want you to know that

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I am too, and I'm rooting you on. So stick

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that in your back pocket. Tell everybody you know that

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kJ said she's proud of you, and then I'm going

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to jump right on end to this episode. Now, you

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always asked me, can we get a quick recap? Of course,

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I am here to serve you. So a lot of

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people were in the Ryan Waller episode. Remember that a

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lot of people came forward and they believed that it

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was a former roommate of Ryan's that had been kicked out.

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This was Richie. They believe that he was probably to

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blame for the shootings that took place, and one witness

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even said that Richie seemed to go on the run

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right after the murder and attempted murder occurred, and so

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that was pretty odd. Now while police are learning about that,

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Ryan miraculously survived being shot in the head and then

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the surgeries that followed, and he was a Once he

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started coming back around from recovery, he was able to

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tell detectives that he could remember some things and he

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wanted to share that to the best of his ability. Specifically,

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he told detectives he knew he knew that Richie had

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shot him, but after he was able to say that

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the brain injury made some things still a bit foggy,

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including what all Richie's father may have had to do

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with the entire situation. So police at that point felt

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like they did have enough to arrest Richie, and they

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stormed his house only to find that it was empty,

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but they were able to take him into custody at

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another location without incident. Shortly thereafter. As soon as they

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got him, Richie was refusing to talk. He lawyered up immediately,

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and that's when a phone call came into headquarters and

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a voice on the other line said Richie didn't do it.

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So that's where we're picking up. Who was that voice

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and how did this person seem to I know so

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much about this shooting? And also could this person be believed? Well,

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that voice was none other than Cheryl Carver. This is

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Richie's mama. It's Larry's wife that had called nine one

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one and wanted to speak to the detectives. Now I

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know what you're thinking right now. Oh well, hell Kelly,

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of course she was going to call and say her

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baby didn't do it. Well, it was much more than that,

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my friends. Okay, But before I go into detail about

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that discussion, I want you to know that police had

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already made another huge move in the case, which is

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what may have actually prompted her to call, because when

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Richie clammed up on his arrest, they now knew that

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they were going to have to go after Larry. They

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were going to have to go get him. Larry by

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now obviously would know that his son had been arrested,

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and if Larry was involved, he knew that his day

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is a free and more likely limited. This would mean

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that he might skip town. So everything considered, police wanted

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to catch Larry before it may be too late. If

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Larry wasn't involved, then he could talk to the police

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and he could explain what happened. Either way, Larry Carver

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was now the main suspect or main subject really of

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the attention of police. So two days after Richie was arrested,

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the Special Assignments Unit was briefed on the task at hand.

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Larry wasn't just someone going to work every day in

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a suit and tie in the corporate world that would

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necessarily just turn around and put his hands behind his

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back whenever they walked in and said, hey, Bud, we

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want to talk to you. Larry was a guy that

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liked to do drugs, and he liked to frequent bars.

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And if you're from the area, I'll let you know.

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He liked to frequent the bars in the Glendale Road

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in the thirty fifth Avenue area. So based on that information,

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Larry wasn't necessarily going to be an easy catch. So

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based on intel that the police got, Larry may be

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hyped up on meth and he also may be suicidal,

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so this is not a good combo. He had a

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history of being unstable and violent with no love for

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the police. He very much was anti authority. He had

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several previous incidents with law enforcement, including domestic violence issues,

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aggravated assaults, and a suicide attempt, and all of this

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was on record. So the plan was simple. Staged the

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entire response squad with eyes on Larry's house, and then

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they were gonna wait for movement or arrival of their target.

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In the meantime, other detectives were out prowling the areas

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that he was known to frequent to see if they

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could spot him out and about. Because Larry Yaul was

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not employed, he kind of did his own thing, so

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lo and behold if their intel wasn't correct. When Detective

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Dalton spotted Larry Recarver on the very corner of thirty

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fifth Avenue in a seven eleven parking lot, so he

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alerted the team and said, look, he's over here, he's

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not at the house, and they responded to the store

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where they took him into custody believe it or not,

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without incident. And that's great. I know, we always want

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these big, bang up stories of arresting people, but when

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the police can do it safely and securely, that's a win.

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So they took him into custody, but when they were

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putting the cuffs on him, they noticed that his wrists

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were slit and so they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you

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know what happened here? Why are you bleeding? What happened

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to your wrists? And he said, look, I cut my

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wrists last night, and they say, okay, why would you

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do that? But he didn't really give much of an answer.

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He just kind of said, it is what it is.

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So police called medical. They responded they did have to

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bandage up his wrists before he was continue to be

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taken into custody, and they brought him to the jail.

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It was seven days later that Larry's wife and Richie's mom, Cheryl,

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made the call to police. So I want you to

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kind of understand it as it happened. She didn't call

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the police right after Richie was arrested. She called after

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Larry was arrested. So on February seventeenth, there would be

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four people in on that conversation when Cheryl called, and

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this is going to be very important. That's why I'm

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pointing it out to you. Four people were involved in

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this conversation, Detective Porter, Detective Dalton. They were in tandem

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speaking on one phone to Cheryl who called in, who

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also was sitting next to her best friend Brenda. As

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she had spoken to the police. So, as you know

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where I left off, Cheryl said, Richie didn't shoot anyone.

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So when she just volunteered that statement, Richie didn't shoot anyone,

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kind of caught off guard by that unsolicited claim, detectives

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just said, okay, well was he there and her response

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was direct quote, I guess so, So as her story went,

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she said Richie had moved out of Ryan's house around Thanksgiving,

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roughly two weeks before the shooting took place. Larry and

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Ritchie had gone back over to Ryan's house to look

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for his pet iguana that Richie had when he previously

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lived there, but it had gotten loose, so while they

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were there, she said that Ryan pulled a gun on

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Larry and Richie. After that incident is whenever a rumor

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started that Ryan had done more than just pull a

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gun on them, but that Ryan was saying that he

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pistol whipped Richie in that incident. When that rumor started,

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Larry and Ritchie did not take too kind to it

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because that didn't happen. Ain't nobody pistol whipped anybody, and

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it pissed them off that people were spreading that information.

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So obviously this had hurt some egos, and her son

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and husband wanted to cut ways completely with Ryan and

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that house. This included finding that iguana and also retrieving

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a vehicle that Larry was storing at Ryan's house because

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remember he brought it there before when his son was

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still living there. Just to be clear, it was a

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nineteen sixty five buick. And when police spoke to the

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landlord of Ryan's home again, she would confirm that she

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had absolutely seen an iguana that was loose. I think

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he was in the backyard. And she did call and

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she spoke to a woman named Cheryl and told them, look,

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the iguana's loose. I'm worried about it. Y'all might want

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to come get it. I know Richie's not living here anymore.

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So all of the stuff that Cheryl was saying to

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this point, she really did seem to be telling the truth,

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because that landlord confirmed what Cheryl was saying. So. Cheryl

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went on to explain that around eight pm on December

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the twenty third, Larry and Ritchie loaded up in her

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pt cruiser. She had a maroon Pte Cruiser. She said,

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they loaded up in her car and they went to

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go get the rest of Richie's stuff and be done

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at that house, and as far as she knew, they did.

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But whenever they returned back home about an hour later,

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Larry was completely and totally on edge. He was frazzled.

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And that's when thinking back on it, she realized they

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didn't come back with any items in hand though, because

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they didn't drive back with the buick, they didn't have

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the iguana, and they had also mentioned a microwave that

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they wanted to go get. They didn't have any of

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that in their hands. All that happened was Larry ran

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into the house and told her the direct quote, I

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got to get the fuck out of here. I fucked

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up a killed to people. He then grabbed some of

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his stuff through some clothes in a bag whatever, and

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she said he bolted within ten minutes of coming back

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to the house. As for her son, Richie, he never

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said anything during all of this she said, he just

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kind of stood there and Larry was freaking out. But

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I got to bring something up real quick. You need

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to remember, Larry was a dope head. Larry was a

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meth head, so he was unstable and his behavior. I

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would assume with my experience with people that are on methamphetamines,

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this is somewhat common of people that are doing that drug.

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People on meth are erratic, they're paranoid, and they often

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think that people are after them. So if Larry was

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a drug addict that liked to use meth and all

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those type of things, put yourself in that position that

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his erraticism probably was somewhat normal for him. So Cheryl

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explained that within those ten minutes of him packing up

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his shit, he left out for California, and the detectives

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said when she said, right, then, he left very late

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on the twenty third. He stayed for two days in California,

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but he came back on Christmas Day. She knew this

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for a fact because she said she Larry and all

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of their kids that I think they had a total

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of five. They all went out to eat at Denny's

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for Christmas Brunch, and she said, all of us were there.

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They had three grownish daughters and two sons, including Richie. Okay,

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so that's where I get the five from. Larry told

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Cheryl while they were at brunch that he had gone

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and visited with his mom and his sister, as well

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as a female cousin that was there. Now, police were

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curious at this point, if Larry was running from allegedly

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killing two people, why the hell did he come back

249
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just two days later for Christmas? That seems kind of weird.

250
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If you go on the run, why did you show

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back up just two days later? Well, the answer would

252
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.919
be kind of funny, really ridiculous actually, in comparison to

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have you know, allegedly committed to murders here or attempted murder.

254
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So police responded and said, oh, he didn't trust you.

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He thought like you were going to tell that he

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had said that he had shot two people, And she's like, no, no, no,

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wasn't that He thought that I might be having an

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affair while he was gone. That sounds stupid as hell

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to me. Okay, but then again, this is a meth

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heads train of thought. So I guess that's kind of

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what he thought. My woman's gonna be cheating on me

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while I'm gone. It was the next day after Christmas

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that the phone rang at their house and it was

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that friend Chunk that I mentioned in previous episodes, looking

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for Richie, and she told Chunk, Richie isn't here. That

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her other son, Larry Junior, had taken him to Paradise

267
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Valley back on the twenty third, and that Cheryl said

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was when she was made aware by Chunk that a

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shooting did actually take place. She didn't know that that

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was actually real. She kind of maybe thought Larry was

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tripping out on meth. But Larry wasn't just high on

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00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.240
meth running his head. It looked like there really was

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a shooting, and Chunk had verified that when he called.

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So it was at that point when Larry and Cheryl

275
00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.879
started to have a conversation about what the hell happened.

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And this was what Larry told Cheryl allegedly about what

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had happened. Larry had taken a gun with him to

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Ryan's house the night of the twenty third when they left.

279
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.399
Cheryl didn't know what gun he took exactly, but she

280
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did tell police the bullets that he had were for

281
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:50.279
a twenty two. This by the way matches, the medical reports,

282
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:54.799
the autopsy of Heather Kwan's shooting, the caliber bullet, as

283
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:59.360
well as the fragment believed to be in Ryan's brain. So,

284
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so far, what Cheryl was saying with no other knowledge,

285
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no other information given to her by police. Obviously, everything

286
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she was saying was making complete sense with the information

287
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collected so far in the investigation. Now, how they got

288
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into Ryan's house, she didn't know. She wasn't sure, but

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Larry said that he confronted Ryan in the kitchen area

290
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and pulled out his gun on him, saying, Oh, okay,

291
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so you're telling everybody you pistol whipped us. Huh, that's

292
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.680
what you're doing. You're going around town telling people you

293
00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.960
pistol whipped us. But before Ryan could say anything or respond,

294
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Larry said he reared back and he struck Ryan in

295
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.759
the face with the gun to pistol whip him. But

296
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:43.640
whenever he hit Ryan, Larry allegedly said that the impact

297
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made the gun go off. The bullet struck the floor

298
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and it ricocheted into Ryan's eye. Ryan then immediately collapsed

299
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to the floor, and Larry, not missing a beat in

300
00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.759
this supposed accident, walked up on Ryan laying face down

301
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.319
in blood, and he put another bullet in the back

302
00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.480
of Ryan's head. That's whenever he realized Heather was in

303
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.160
the house. Because Heather didn't live there, he didn't know

304
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:11.799
that Heather would be there. Realizing that she was there

305
00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.079
on the couch and that she could clearly id them

306
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:17.200
for going into the house, he said he ran over

307
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.400
to the couch and he shot a girl twice in

308
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.240
the head. She immediately collapsed, falling dead on the pillow,

309
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.880
and Larry followed up with saying he was pretty confident

310
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he didn't leave any witnesses. FYI, I want to add

311
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.359
this in for you. When police had conducted that first

312
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.119
search warrant at Richie's house whenever he was arrested, they

313
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.880
did collect two revolvers, amongst other weapons and other items

314
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.240
at that house. Those weapons, they thought, all right, well,

315
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.960
these could possibly be the weapons that were brought in

316
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.759
for the shooting, even though Cheryl was Richie's mom. Even

317
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.480
though that was the case, she also told police in

318
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.000
that same conversation she wasn't surprised. It wouldn't have surprised

319
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.200
if her son may have been involved in drug activity

320
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.799
and other risky behaviors, just like what was going on here.

321
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.599
After all, Richie was already on probation and had been

322
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.680
released out from prison whenever this incident took place, It

323
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.680
wasn't like this would have been completely out of character.

324
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It didn't shock her, But the question now became, why

325
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.000
hadn't Larry said anything to her when Richie was arrested.

326
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If Larry knew he was the one who committed these

327
00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.759
murders and or murder an attempted murder, and not his son,

328
00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:39.000
why didn't Larry speak up to save Richie to son, Well,

329
00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.599
Cheryl knew the answer to that. And when I tell you,

330
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this is as stone freaking cold as cold can get

331
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.799
in terms of a father and son relationship. Just listen

332
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:56.119
to this, she said. She asked, Larry, you know what's

333
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:57.839
going on here? If you shot those people, why is

334
00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:01.480
my son the one being arrested? And Larry's only response

335
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.440
about Richie being arrested for what Larry said he did

336
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.200
was quote, he'd do it to me in a heartbeat.

337
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.640
You you want to talk about callous, That is cold.

338
00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:16.319
I mean, damn, that is your son. And you're willing,

339
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.440
according to Cheryl, to just let him take the fall

340
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.440
for it because he'd do it to you and a heartbeat.

341
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.880
So with all of this new information, police point blank

342
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.480
wanted to know, Cheryl, are you willing to testify in

343
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.599
court to all of this? And her answer was, in

344
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.240
my opinion, something that only someone that was a domestic

345
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:43.200
violence survivor would ever say, because her answer was again

346
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:49.920
direct quote, if I make it so. Cheryl's friend Brenda,

347
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.599
who I told you, was there when this conversation was happening.

348
00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:56.039
She was on the line with Cheryl as this phone

349
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.799
call was taking place. She spoke up and she further

350
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:05.680
elaborated to detectives that they were both afraid of Larry

351
00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.200
and they were worried that Larry was gonna come kill

352
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:13.720
Cheryl and then commit suicide. The fear seems like it

353
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.759
was absolutely real, and based on how Larry was treating

354
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.680
his son in this instance, I would say that it

355
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.119
was pretty legitimate and a valid fear that he might

356
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.279
come hurt her, come kill her. So what would Larry

357
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:31.640
have to say about this huge revelation that his wife

358
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.880
had just told police? Was Cheryl just trying to save

359
00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:39.599
her killer's son or was all of this true? So

360
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.000
detectives decided that they now wanted to have a word

361
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.480
with Larry, who was sitting in jail post his arrest.

362
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:52.640
Larry's interview started with that call from the former landlord

363
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.680
about two weeks before Christmas, asking him if he had

364
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.440
ever found his iguana, because she said she had seen

365
00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:02.359
him on the back porch the patio. That's where Larry

366
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.920
picked up with explaining what was going on. He said

367
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.039
that they went over there through a side gate and

368
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:12.000
we went to go look for this iguana when a

369
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.640
guy he said he didn't know, came to the sliding

370
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.720
glass door, and so they asked if they could go

371
00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:19.640
inside and they could look for the lizard, and the

372
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:24.240
guy agreed. Larry said that once they got inside and

373
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.200
they explained what was going on, that they asked to

374
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.200
search the guy's room, but the guy then eventually got

375
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:35.480
extremely defensive, and Larry said, that's whenever this guy pulled

376
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.480
a gun on my son, and he told them it's

377
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.519
time for y'all to leave. Y'all better get out of here. Well,

378
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.319
sometime later after that incident, he said, we just left, okay,

379
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.400
this guy pulled a gun. Whatever, we don't want any trouble.

380
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.359
We just left. But sometime later Richie came back to

381
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.799
Larry and said that that guy whose name was Ryan,

382
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.599
was bragging to people that he had pistol whipped Richie

383
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:01.759
and his dad. So Larry was very clear in this

384
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:05.440
interview too. I was never pistol whipped nobody ever pistol

385
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.680
whipped anybody. And I never went back to that house

386
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.759
after that incident looking for the iguana again. So I

387
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.000
don't know what this kid was talking about as Ryan, God,

388
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:16.880
but we were never pistol whipped and I never went

389
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.640
back to the house again after he pulled a gun

390
00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:23.240
on me. Well, they kind of brought up the murder. Okay,

391
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.039
now they're talking about and they're like, well, you know

392
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.680
what about this murder that took place over there, YadA, YadA,

393
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.039
And Larry's response was, look, after I heard that there

394
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:32.359
was a murder over there, I didn't even want my

395
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.880
car back. I had a car being stored there. I

396
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:36.720
didn't even want my car back. I didn't want anything

397
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:39.039
to do with that house. That's crazy, and I just

398
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.240
stayed away. As for Christmas, they say, what were you

399
00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:44.799
doing at Christmas? Larry? Can you tell us what you

400
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.079
were doing during that timeframe? And he said, oh, I

401
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.960
was at home, but I had been visiting my family

402
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.599
in California before that for a few days. He even

403
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.039
said he took his wife's pet cruiser. He specifically said

404
00:23:57.079 --> 00:23:59.880
he stayed with his cousin Tina, and he also stayed

405
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.160
with his sister. So I hope as a listener right

406
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.039
now you're seeing how these stories do all align. All

407
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.920
of these stories are aligning. But the police are looking

408
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.200
at this going we're missing something. There is something missing here. Yes,

409
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:19.599
everybody's kind of echoing the same thing, but we're missing something.

410
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:24.359
What are we missing? But Larry was then directly confronted

411
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.400
with the murder. The police said that we think you

412
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:32.000
did it. We think that you were there. And the

413
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.400
police told Larry in this interview that Richie told them

414
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.279
that his dad did it. Now, I got to stop

415
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:41.119
for a second and give you a little fyi here.

416
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.440
Police are allowed to lie to you in an interview

417
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.000
because Richie had not said that. He clammed up, but

418
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.559
the police told Larry Richie said that everything about that

419
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.079
is completely legal. And I'm just going to briefly explain

420
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:58.440
this to you. But there was a Supreme Court case.

421
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:00.680
It was Fraser v. Cup Okay, if you want to

422
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.640
look that case up. But that establishes that it's allowed

423
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.359
for police to lie to someone they are questioning. The

424
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:14.519
deception tactics that police can use oftentimes help to elicit

425
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:20.960
truthful information from suspects who otherwise might remain silent. Okay,

426
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.240
so they can say, oh, your son said you did it,

427
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.400
to see what Richie, I mean, to see what Larry's

428
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.759
response would be to that. Okay. Now, what police cannot do.

429
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.839
Police cannot make fake documents. They can't make a fake

430
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:40.240
video or a fake form or something like that and

431
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:43.680
present that as real. But they can pretend to have

432
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:47.160
more evidence than they do. They can misrepresent what someone

433
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.240
else may or may not have said to that extent.

434
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:52.839
That's what they can do. The reason behind this is

435
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.000
because the truth won't ever change. So even if the

436
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.480
police are lying in an interrogation to you, if they're

437
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.319
saying we know you did it, okay, that shouldn't affect

438
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.319
the truth very briefly. For example, if the police would

439
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.839
have looked at Larry and said, dude, we have your

440
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.119
fingerprints all over that house and they're lying, let's just

441
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.200
say they're lying, Okay, Larry's gonna say, no, you don't

442
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:18.240
if he didn't do it, and the police can totally

443
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.599
have made up that evidence. But if Larry wasn't there, okay,

444
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:24.920
If Larry wasn't there, and the police are saying, we

445
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.640
have your prince there, Larry knows intrinsically they don't he

446
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:32.440
wasn't there. The truth will never change. That's why police

447
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.480
can say that, because it won't be able to change

448
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.720
the physical evidence. You got me, I hope that makes sense.

449
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:43.000
So they told Larry that his son said he did it. Well,

450
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.680
Larry scoffed at this. Literally, he laughed at this and said,

451
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.279
that's ridiculous. Neither one of us did it. Richie must

452
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:51.319
just be saying all this because he's scared because you

453
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:57.200
arrested him. So police then decided to challenge Larry's ego

454
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.759
a bit okay, and they asked him, so you don't

455
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.559
care that someone in town, this young kid, this punk

456
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.720
kid you know, is out here telling people that he

457
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.240
pistol whipped you. That doesn't bother you in the slightest

458
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:11.079
And Larry again started laughing, and he was like, man,

459
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.240
that's kids stuff. I don't have any reason to go

460
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:16.640
hurt that kid. That's kids stuff. He said, I got

461
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:19.319
bigger problems in my life. And he expanded on the

462
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:22.400
fact that he was heartbroken. He was heartbroken because he

463
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.160
had separated from his wife and that was the biggest

464
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.720
issue in his life right now, not some kid running

465
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:31.279
his mouth saying that he had pistol whips. Larry. So

466
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:35.599
to that point, said police said, well, your wife also

467
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:41.960
told us that you shot those kids, Larry, what's that about?

468
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:45.680
And Larry looked at the police again, scoffed at that

469
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.279
and said, I don't believe she said that to you.

470
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.720
My wife didn't say shit to you. She wouldn't and

471
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:57.039
she didn't. So with burglary in mind as the possible

472
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.000
motive for the shootings, police asked a little bit further here, Well,

473
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:04.640
considering that you're not employed, Larry, how is it that

474
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.240
you were making money? How is it that you're living

475
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.960
right now day to day since you don't have a job. Remember,

476
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.960
everyone at this point believed that Richie and Larry went

477
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.839
over to Ryan's house to rob him, and if you're unemployed,

478
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.160
that kind of fits. That fits that that bill there.

479
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.680
But Larry said, no, I was making money because I

480
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.160
was selling off my stuff. For the time being, he said,

481
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.759
I was selling off my tools and jewelry, and I

482
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.200
had a bunch of music equipment and he said, I

483
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.519
was selling all of that off and that's how I

484
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.319
was living. Okay, Sure, whatever, if we want to believe that,

485
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:39.000
we can believe that. You decide if you want to

486
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.400
believe that or not. So obviously, Larry wasn't budging regardless

487
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.359
of what was going on here. So police took a

488
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.880
DNA sample from him and then they sent him back

489
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:50.400
to his jail cell. Well, as police are trying to

490
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:53.680
figure all of this out, they became very very interested,

491
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.680
more so in Cheryl's friend Brenda, that had been in

492
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:01.720
on that conversation. They they really were believing that if

493
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:04.559
they spoke to Brenda by herself and they asked her

494
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.720
questions without Cheryl sitting there, that she might feel more

495
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.920
free to shed more light on the life that Cheryl

496
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.480
was living when all of this went down. And their

497
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:20.000
suspicions on that were absolutely correct, because when they got

498
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:22.480
back in touch with Brenda and Brenda was by herself

499
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.680
and they were able to ask questions, this is what

500
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.039
they learned from her. Brenda had known Cheryl and Larry

501
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:31.880
for a very long time, and I think it was

502
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:36.200
like fifteen years and Brenda knew that Larry's addiction was

503
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.680
starting to take a very serious toll on Cheryl and

504
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:45.559
on their marriage. The reason that Cheryl even had involved

505
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.279
Brenda in all of the knowledge of the shooting was

506
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.200
because she knew that Brenda was the only person in

507
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.240
her life that would support her in doing the right thing,

508
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.440
which in this instance, I mean is speaking up, speaking

509
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.839
up to the police. Everyone else in Cheryl's life was

510
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:08.480
just like Larry and her sons, anti law enforcement, anti authority,

511
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.839
drug addicts who used violence to get whatever the hell

512
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.599
they wanted. Brenda, however, if you want to look at

513
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.160
her as an individual, she was a good person, y'all.

514
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:23.319
Brenda had morals, she had values. She matter of fact,

515
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:27.519
she worked in the courthouse in like a security type role,

516
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.799
dealing with probation and parole type stuff. So Brenda was

517
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.960
a cut from a different cloth than these people. But

518
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:39.079
she still was friends with Cheryl because she cared about her,

519
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:43.599
you know, she liked her. And so Brenda explained that

520
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:47.759
Larry was so erratic at this current point that Cheryl

521
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.440
was just guaranteeing that Larry was going to kill her.

522
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.079
Cheryl genuinely believed that Larry was going to come murder

523
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:58.839
her if she spoke up, and so she had asked, Brenda,

524
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.440
can I hide at your house? Please let me hide

525
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:04.240
at your house, because I have to tell the police

526
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:08.279
that my husband is responsible for killing two people's children.

527
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.279
You know. Brenda listened as Cheryl told her. There are

528
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.359
parents out there right now that have lost their children.

529
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.079
I know one girl's dead. I know that this other

530
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.920
kid was shot in the head and he's in the hospital.

531
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:19.960
You know. I don't know if she knew he was

532
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:21.759
in the hospital, but she believed two people were dead.

533
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:24.240
And she's like, I've got the answer to all of this.

534
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:25.920
I hold the key to all of this. The right

535
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.400
thing to do is to tell police. But in this

536
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:33.440
same right, Cheryl was terrified of the repercussions of her husband,

537
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:39.640
and the instances were just overwhelming. To back this up,

538
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:42.599
because there were times, and Brenda is the one who

539
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.519
brought this information up and gave it to police. There

540
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.519
were times where her own son, Richie, had beat Cheryl up.

541
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.960
One time he even tried to break his own mother's

542
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:58.359
arm in a scuffle. Richie had been known to beat

543
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.480
up his sisters Larry and Richie when they would get

544
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:05.839
into fights, would pull guns on each other when they

545
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.079
got mad, and they're like in standoffs in the house

546
00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:12.519
pulling guns on each other. Cheryl had no normalcy outside

547
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:16.079
of Brenda. Okay, her house was a total shit show.

548
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.960
There was just craziness going on at all times. And

549
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.519
so she had hidden at Brenda's after they initially called

550
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.160
the police, Brenda and Cheryl. When they spoke to the police,

551
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:29.279
Brenda left her house and never returned. She was hiding

552
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:34.640
out at another house of Brenda's and she was just

553
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.559
staying there, not wanting anyone to know where she was

554
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:41.039
because she was so terrified of being murdered. So there

555
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.240
was still so much work to be done if this

556
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.359
case was ever to be proven and a conviction to

557
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.640
be obtained. But this was great information to kind of

558
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:51.799
build the picture of what was going on here. But

559
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:56.599
solid evidence was needed, not just words and circumstances, and

560
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:03.839
witnesses were now scared to talk. Witnesses like Cheryl. There

561
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.920
was another man that police questioned that he wanted nothing

562
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:09.440
to do with this, that was a friend. His name

563
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.559
was Pete. I believe that was a friend of Larry's

564
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:14.680
that dude had information, but he told police, you can

565
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.759
lose my number. I don't want anything to do with this.

566
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.720
Very clear that they were dealing with some very very

567
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:25.240
dangerous people here. So police wanted to find out a

568
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.440
little bit more about that trip he took to California,

569
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.680
and so they followed up with Larry's sister, her name

570
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:33.759
was Janie, as well as this cousin that Larry had

571
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:38.640
brought up. But both Janey and his cousin confirmed, yes,

572
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.759
Larry absolutely did come visit us, but they were very

573
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.079
clear that he showed up unexpectedly, very late on December

574
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.319
the twenty third. They said that he came in a

575
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.880
maroon PT Cruiser, that he stayed a day or two

576
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:59.680
before he returned home Christmas morning. Those are direct answers

577
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.599
from the questions from documents that I have. Okay, there

578
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:07.319
is no question about this. It's in the documents. So

579
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:10.639
it was pretty clear that everyone's story was now aligning

580
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:13.679
with December twenty third as being the date of the

581
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:17.400
shooting of Ryan and Heather. But what happened on that

582
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.920
day and why Well continued investigation into phone records of

583
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.280
both Heather and Ryan, as well as interviews with more

584
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.920
people would lay out this timeline for you. The day

585
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:33.440
that Heather and Ryan were shot, on the twenty third,

586
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.000
Heather went to the mall with a friend of hers

587
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.800
named Christina. They did that around one PM, and then

588
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.559
they went back to Heather's dad's house where they took

589
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.199
a nap. After they woke up from that nap, Christina

590
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.119
last spoke to Heather around four point thirty PM on

591
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:56.440
the twenty third. Heather and her records. After that she

592
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.840
spoke to another friend named Philippe, and that was a

593
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.800
around six thirty pm. They talked on the phone, and

594
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.760
then after they spoke on the phone, Heather and Ryan

595
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:11.400
swung by Philippe's house just for a few minutes. Whatever

596
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:15.400
happened there my personal belief. I have no proof of

597
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:18.159
this whatsoever. It's just a personal belief, and so I'm

598
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:20.800
going to say allegedly, and for entertainment purposes only, is

599
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.639
that I do believe on all the research I've done,

600
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:26.480
this may have possibly been some type of sale of

601
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:31.360
something there, because they weren't there long, but they visited

602
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.480
with this guy for a few minutes, and then a

603
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.480
little while later, phone records showed that pizza had been

604
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:41.559
ordered by Ryan and delivered from Papa John's to Ryan's

605
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:45.920
house around seven forty six pm on the night in question.

606
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.840
That phone call was the very last outgoing phone call

607
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:57.000
ever from Ryan's cell phone. The last outgoing phone call

608
00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:59.960
from Heather's cell phone was just a few minutes late

609
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:07.719
at eight twelve pm after that radio silence. So whatever

610
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:11.280
happened to these two people to Ryan and Heather had

611
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:15.000
to have happened after eight twelve pm on December the

612
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:18.760
twenty third. Cheryl's account was that Richie and Larry left

613
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.599
their house to go look for the iguana at Ryan's

614
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:26.320
around eight pm, and they returned back by nine pm.

615
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.239
Is this aligning in your mind? Because it is in mind.

616
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.079
Sometimes though, stories will align during an investigation, but the

617
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.559
facts will be somewhat skewed, and this makes it very

618
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:44.400
difficult in live time to figure out what went on.

619
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:46.039
And so I'm about to give you a case in

620
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.599
point of this. If you've never done an investigation, maybe

621
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:52.280
you don't realize how this goes because it's always cleaned

622
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:56.960
up so well in documentaries and in podcasts and stuff

623
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.320
like that. But I want to give you the nitty

624
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.320
gritty here so you can see what detectives will really

625
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:05.400
working with. So in a follow up interview with Southside Eric,

626
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:10.280
Remember Southside Eric, all right, the iguana now was brought

627
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.079
up because they learned about the whole iguana supposedly be

628
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.360
in the reason that Richie and Larry went back to

629
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:19.599
the house. But Southside Eric would kind of screw his

630
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.760
face up at that and go, wait, what what do

631
00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:25.960
you mean? And that's when he tells police Richie's iguana

632
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:30.559
had been dead. That iguana wasn't alive. On the twenty third,

633
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:35.599
he said, we found that iguana dead in the pool

634
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:39.440
a long time ago. Hell Raiser Eric, remember that one

635
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.840
that was dating the roommate Alicia. Hell Raiser Eric also

636
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.119
confirmed this in a follow up interview and added, yeah,

637
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.920
the iguana had been dead. Ryan had thrown it over

638
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.000
the fence when he found it drowned in the pool.

639
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.519
So not only that, but hell Raiser Eric also followed

640
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:03.599
up with and said that he was there when Ryan

641
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:07.639
had told not only Richie but his dad face to

642
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.519
face that the iguana had died. Hell Razor was there

643
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.440
when that conversation happened. He said they came over looking

644
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:20.159
for the iguana. Ryan told him it died and then

645
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:24.159
they're like, okay whatever. Ryan then sold both Richie and

646
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:29.159
Larry some weed and then they left. And he said

647
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:33.480
that occasion, that instance was well before December twenty third.

648
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:38.840
That was way before that. So this meant that going

649
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:43.239
to look for the iguana did happen, but the date

650
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:48.159
that Larry was claiming it happened was a lie. The

651
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:52.280
only reason that Larry would have to lie would be

652
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:56.840
to skew the timeline. So liars do this. They'll use

653
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.559
a lot of truth, but then they'll kind of spin

654
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.920
it to change it to fit what they need. South

655
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:09.599
Side Eric also said that Richie and Larry showed up

656
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:15.840
at Ryan's house on another occasion before the shooting. Remember,

657
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.039
and I keep bringing this up there, remember because I

658
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:21.079
know it's been a long series here, but I want

659
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:26.199
you to remember, Mom, Cheryl and Larry were now both

660
00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:29.519
claiming that Ryan had pulled a gun on them, so

661
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:31.920
they left. In a previous incident, I just told you

662
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:33.639
about that a few minutes ago, where they went over

663
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.039
there and said Ryan pulled a gun on them, and

664
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:42.440
so they left. But Southside Eric had heard differently. He

665
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:46.039
had heard that Richie and Larry had shown up looking

666
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:50.880
for the iguana another time, and Ryan had let them

667
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.320
in through the front door. They were all sitting on

668
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.920
the couch when Richie got up and he went walking

669
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.679
towards Ryan's room. Ryan got up to follow, to see,

670
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:02.920
you know, what are you doing? Why are you going

671
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.159
back in my room? And that's when Larry, out of nowhere,

672
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:09.559
jumped up, pulled a gun out of his pants pocket,

673
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.079
pointed it at Ryan and said, you're not going anywhere.

674
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.639
So Ryan's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But Ryan had

675
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:20.519
a gun on him in this instance, he pulled his

676
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.519
gun out. And so now Larry and Ryan are standing

677
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:28.039
there basically in a standoff, pointing guns at each other. Well,

678
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:31.599
that's when Richie returned out of Ryan's room and came

679
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.199
down the hallway. He had something in his hand, but

680
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:36.119
he was somewhat shocked when he came around the corner

681
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:39.000
and saw his dad and Ryan in a standoff with guns.

682
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.400
He dropped whatever he had in his hand, and eventually

683
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:46.599
Larry lowered the gun and the Carvers both just left

684
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.239
the house. But while they were leaving, Richie mumbled something

685
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:53.960
under his breath that Ryan didn't like. While they were

686
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.400
exiting and he heard that Ryan then popped Richie on

687
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:02.440
the head with the gun as he walked out. So

688
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.320
police then go and remember that Southside Eric giving that information.

689
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.559
Police then went and spoke to hell Raiser Eric again

690
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.840
because they're like, there are so many instances here and

691
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:16.639
the stories somewhat aligned, but they don't. So they go

692
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:20.199
back to hell Raiser Eric in another interview and he

693
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.960
would give way more insight into what actually happened in

694
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:28.679
that incident that Southside Eric had just heard about. Okay,

695
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:33.119
And that's because he was there when this incident happened. Remember,

696
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.639
he was dating that roommate, Alicia. He moved out because

697
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:38.920
they broke up. They broke up before the shooting, but

698
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.000
he was there in this other incident as well. Okay.

699
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:47.280
So hell Raiser Eric's account of the incident was similar

700
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:50.760
to what Southside Eric had said, but there were a

701
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:55.400
lot of differences too. Okay, So this is what happened.

702
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:59.320
Hell Raiser Eric was in his room and Ryan and

703
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:04.280
Heather in Ryan's room. Someone started beating down the front

704
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.440
door of the house so hard that hell Raiser was like,

705
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.639
what the hell man? So he got up and he

706
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:12.599
went to the front door, and when he opened it.

707
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:16.360
Two men pushed their way past him and they went

708
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:20.920
running back down towards Ryan's bedroom door, and they started

709
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:24.880
trying to push their way into Ryan's bedroom. Hell Raiser

710
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:28.519
went and grabbed a shotgun because he was like, what

711
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:31.000
the hell's going on here? You know, why are these

712
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:33.960
two guys busting up in the house. Well, the next

713
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.920
thing hell Raiser knew, both Richie and Larry then came

714
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:41.199
hauling ass full speed back down the hallway. Richie even fell,

715
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:43.480
he was running so fast as he turned towards the

716
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:47.119
front door to escape, and Ryan was just steps behind

717
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:50.360
both Larry and Richie. He had a pistol in each

718
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.079
hand and he was chasing them both off with guns

719
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:57.159
in his hand like he was about to kill them both. Afterwards,

720
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:01.360
when that whole shit show went down, Ryan told hell

721
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:04.719
Raiser who the men were and said, yeah, I even

722
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:06.679
popped the old man on the head with the gun

723
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.280
while I was chasing him out of the house. So,

724
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:12.559
if you're totally confused right now, that's okay if you're

725
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.599
not wonderful, but you can see that these stories are similar,

726
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:18.639
they kind of overlap, but there's just some differences in

727
00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:22.159
what the facts actually are. Well, when they showed a

728
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:25.119
lineup of people to hell raiser Eric Okay, trying to

729
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.639
trust but verify what he was saying because he said

730
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.039
he was there, he absolutely, one hundred percent picked Larry

731
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:36.000
out of the lineup. He said, that's the guy. That's

732
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:40.199
the guy that was with Richie. Okay. So basically these

733
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.840
stories must have been where the pistol whipping rumors took

734
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.039
off from. It was a different version of the same

735
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.159
incident that had occurred at that house. But what was

736
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:54.840
now like a light bulb going off was what Ryan

737
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.320
himself had said in the hospital interview when he was

738
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.000
recalling back when when they went and they talked to

739
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:06.800
him during recovery, because remember he remembered being shot by Richie,

740
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.079
but then he was just kind of foggy, but he

741
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:12.400
clearly remembered Larry had pulled a gun on him. But

742
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.559
he was like, it had to be two different instances

743
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:20.199
because they don't go together. We all, Ryan was absolutely right.

744
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.119
Now police were figuring this out. There had been multiple

745
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:29.239
instances at the house. They were just weeks apart. Ritchie

746
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:33.199
and Larry went to go look for the iguana, found

747
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:35.880
out that the iguana was dead and bought some weed

748
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:41.000
from Ryan. Later on, Larry and Ritchie busted back up

749
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.400
in the house, pushed back hell Raiser, Eric and probably

750
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:48.920
were going back there to rob and get even with Ryan. Okay,

751
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.519
for whatever reason, want to steal shit and whatever. And

752
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.760
that's whenever Ryan supposedly hit one of them on the head,

753
00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:00.000
whenever he chased him out. After this, Larry and Richie

754
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.159
he returned back to the house again because they wanted

755
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:08.000
to get even for the rumor about supposedly being pistol whipped.

756
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.480
Is it now kind of aligning? But they told Cheryl

757
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:14.000
the reason that they were leaving the house was to

758
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:17.800
go get the iguana, because she had spoken to the

759
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.440
landlord about it. Cheryl knew that what Cheryl didn't know

760
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.519
was that they already knew the iguana was dead. They

761
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:27.800
were using that iguana story to not alert Cheryl to

762
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:33.239
what they were about to go do. Also, Larry's buick,

763
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.360
it couldn't have been retrieved on the twenty third, like

764
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:39.880
they were claiming that they were just going to get

765
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:44.320
their stuff. Okay, the reason is because the buick wasn't

766
00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:47.079
even there. Well, Kelly, how can you know that I

767
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:50.199
know that because I pulled records on this, and what

768
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.599
I found was that Larry's buick had been towed away

769
00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:57.639
before the shooting ever took place. His buick was towed

770
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.159
on the twenty first of December at the request of

771
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:05.440
the landlord. All Right, so things were pretty clear at

772
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.079
this point. Larry and Ritchie went there that night to

773
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.960
rob Ryan, no doubt about it, But they had also

774
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.440
planned to either rough him up or kill him, whichever

775
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:16.880
one it was. We know this because they were armed,

776
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:19.440
and they went after dark, and they already knew the

777
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.760
iguana was dead and the buick wasn't even there. Their

778
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.760
records prove this. So here is what I believe to

779
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:32.119
have happened, in succinct order, with some now newly uncovered

780
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.480
information I still haven't told you yet because I found

781
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:38.880
this out in my research. We're gonna have to back

782
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.960
up all the way to the beginning of two thousand

783
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:47.559
and six, and it's all going to the house that

784
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:50.800
we have been calling Ryan's house. We're still talking about

785
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.360
the same house, the house where the shooting took place, Okay,

786
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:55.599
but this is going to be that same house. Well

787
00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:01.760
before Ryan ever moved into it, Richie Carver had broken

788
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:05.599
into that very same house back in April of two

789
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:09.159
thousand and six and tore up everything in that house

790
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:14.239
during an ongoing argument. But this is the deal. Back

791
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.760
in the April of two thousand and six, Richie's sister

792
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:23.519
and her boyfriend lived in that house. Nobody else that

793
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.280
I have mentioned in this story to date. You have

794
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:28.840
none of them. Nothing I've told you to date. Okay.

795
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.920
Her name is Shante. Shanta and her boyfriend were renting

796
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.559
that house. Richie got in an argument with Shanta's boyfriend

797
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.079
over I don't know what, He broke into the house,

798
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.599
tore up a bunch of shit in the house over

799
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.239
this argument, and then he left a note that said, look,

800
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:49.519
I could have stole everything in this house, but I didn't,

801
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.280
and for my sister's sake, y'all better get back in

802
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.559
touch with me and we better have a talk. When

803
00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:00.519
that happened. Richie then admitted to damaging the slide glass

804
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:03.440
door on the house because he broke it when he

805
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:05.920
was tearing up that home in the incident over his

806
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.760
sister and the sister's boyfriend. The sister paid to have

807
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:13.119
that door repaired. She even gave a receipt to the

808
00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:16.079
landlord saying, look, I took care of it, and because

809
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:20.960
of that, the landlord never prosecuted Richie for the damage

810
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:25.719
because Chante had it fixed. But this is why the

811
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:29.239
sliding glass door could be lifted off of the track

812
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:32.760
and open even if it was locked. This is why

813
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.880
Richie knew that, because you just had to know the trick.

814
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.440
The repairs to the house were done on I guess

815
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:41.199
sheet rock and stuff, but the door, the glass sliding

816
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.360
door that just was broken off the track because Richie

817
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:48.079
did it and he knew it. Eventually, the sister's boyfriend

818
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:50.039
and the sister they couldn't make the rent on that

819
00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:53.639
house and so they had to move out, and Richie

820
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:57.559
took over the lease in the house. When Richie took

821
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.599
over the lease of the house, that's when Southside Eric

822
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:06.519
moved in in October. Ryan then joined the lease as

823
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:11.719
well the same month. Okay, we're in October. Richie then

824
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:14.679
started doing the drugs while I'm out, even worse, doing meth,

825
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:18.639
and he was kicked out for non payment in November.

826
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:26.199
So Eric, Hellraiser and Dealicia moved in with Eric's Southside

827
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:31.840
and Ryan right after that. South Side then gets mad

828
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:35.920
at Ryan for throwing that party and so Southside Eric

829
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.559
moves out on December the eleventh. On December the thirteenth,

830
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:43.159
that is when the landlord went to get the rent

831
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:45.119
money from Ryan, which he was supposed to leave in

832
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.679
the cigarette case on the barbecue pit, but only half

833
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:50.079
the money was there, and that's when she learned from

834
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:53.920
Ryan that Southside Eric had moved out. It was that

835
00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:59.360
incident where the landlord saw the iguana in the backyard

836
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:03.039
day and so she made a phone call to Cheryl

837
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:07.480
to tell her, I know Richie's gone, but the iguana

838
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:11.119
is in the backyard. But the iguana then drowns. Soon

839
00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:16.559
after that conversation, Ryan finds it throws it over the fence. Well,

840
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.880
a neighbor that lived next door to Ryan started complaining

841
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:22.719
about all the believed drug sales at the house, as

842
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:26.360
well as these vehicles that had been parked on the

843
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:29.760
property and they were broken down and they weren't being moved.

844
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:31.480
They didn't they didn't want to look at these junk

845
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:36.000
cars that were there, specifically mentioning a Buick, a Chevy truck,

846
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:41.360
and an Azuzu Rodeo. After that complaint, a party is

847
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:46.000
thrown and that's when Richie shows up. Uninvited with Phoenix,

848
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:49.360
the guy Phoenix or whatever. And shots may or may

849
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:52.440
not have been fired in that incident. I don't have

850
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:55.639
confirmation one way or another. That's just what the landlord

851
00:50:55.679 --> 00:51:01.960
had said. Well, after this and Phoenix show back up

852
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:04.159
at the house at some point and Ryan pulls a

853
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:09.320
gun on them in his bedroom. After that incident, Richie

854
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:12.760
and his dad Larry show up looking for the iguana.

855
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.119
Ryan saw them on his security cameras because they had

856
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:21.039
cameras all outside, and so Ryan grabbed his gun before

857
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:24.400
he went and answered the door for Richie and his dad.

858
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:28.719
He let them in, but when they walked in, he

859
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.400
made Larry take his gun out of his waistband and

860
00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:35.000
he set it on the table before they all sat

861
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:38.039
down on the couch to talk. Larry and Richie said

862
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:40.360
they wanted the iguana and the microwave that they had

863
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:42.719
left there. But Ryan was like, hey, man, I hate

864
00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:44.320
to tell you this, but the iguana drowned in the

865
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:48.000
pool and they were like, oh, you know, that sucks whatever,

866
00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:52.599
and then Ryan sold both Larry and Richie some weed.

867
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:56.440
When they went to leave, Ryan gave the pistol back

868
00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:01.840
to Larry and they left. Well, Larry and Ritchie show

869
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.719
back up and they push past hell Raiser Eric and

870
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.719
they get chased out by Ryan, and Ryan at that

871
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.119
point claims to have hit one of them on the

872
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.440
head with a gun. Now, Larry, by the way, is

873
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:17.360
thought to be a Hell's Angel, and that's why Ryan

874
00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:20.679
was claiming to everybody that he had struck a Hell's

875
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:23.239
Angel with the gun and the pistol whipping rumors and

876
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:27.480
all that began swirling. The landlord then has the cars

877
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:30.440
toad that were at the house on December the twenty first,

878
00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:34.400
including Larry's buick, so it was not even at the

879
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:38.760
house anymore. Alicia and Hellraiser Eric break up. In the meantime,

880
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:45.320
Hellraiser moves out. That's when Richie starts getting more word

881
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:49.760
about all of the supposed pistol whipping rumors and he

882
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:53.320
talks to his dad about it. They both feel disrespected,

883
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:57.679
their egos are bruised, and now they're fucking pissed. On

884
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:00.840
December twenty third, so this is just two days later

885
00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:03.360
after the cars are towed. That is going to be

886
00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:05.920
the day of the shooting. Christina goes to the mall

887
00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:09.000
around one pm and then with Heather and then they

888
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:11.440
go take the nap at her dad's house. Heather then

889
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.079
spoke to Philip. A little while later, they went by

890
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.840
his house and did whatever for a few minutes, and

891
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:21.360
then at six point thirty they start heading back to Ryan's.

892
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:25.440
When they get back to the house, another friend stops by.

893
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:29.000
His name was Robert. This is verified by cell phone records,

894
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:32.760
but Robert stops by to buy weed and they all

895
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:36.519
smoke some weed together at Ryan's house. After they smoke,

896
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.360
Alicia then left to go to her mom's house for

897
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:44.599
the holidays. A little while later, Ryan made that last

898
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:47.159
phone call he ever made at for the pizza, which

899
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:51.480
arrived at seven forty six pm. Larry and Ritchie tell

900
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:53.800
Cheryl that they are leaving and that they're going to

901
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:58.119
get the iguana and get their stuff. Remember, they already

902
00:53:58.159 --> 00:53:59.840
know that that's not going to happen because they already

903
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:04.199
know the iguana's dead and the car's not there. But

904
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:09.440
they also armed themselves unbeknownst to Cheryl as well. Then Heather,

905
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.519
while they're traveling towards the house, made her last outgoing call.

906
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:17.519
At eight twelve pm, Larry and Ritchie arrive at Ryan's.

907
00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.039
They sneak around the back of the house. This is

908
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:23.639
around eight twenty pm, after the pizza had just been delivered.

909
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.280
Heather and Ryan were sitting on the couch watching TV

910
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:29.400
and they were eating. Richie, because he knows the trick

911
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:32.679
about the door, started lifting the glass door off the

912
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.920
tracks so that they could sneak in. He had done

913
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:38.360
this many times before. Ryan heard the door being messed

914
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:41.039
with and he went to investigate. When you saw Richie

915
00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:44.559
trying to bust in through the door, Richie raised his

916
00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:47.840
gun and he shot Ryan in the face, where Ryan

917
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:51.639
then collapsed to the ground and Heather was then subsequently

918
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:55.920
shot twice immediately after Ryan was dropped. Believing that Ryan

919
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:59.559
was dead, Richie and Larry then robbed the house. They

920
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:03.000
took some of the guns. They took Ryan's laptop before

921
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.000
they ran out of the house, jumped back into the

922
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:09.199
Pete Cruiser and sped back home. When they got home,

923
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.840
Richie took off and he went to Paradise valleyed in

924
00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:15.719
that area to lay loaf for a few days. Larry,

925
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:18.159
who was panicked, loaded up his shit and he left

926
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:21.079
for California. Late on the night of the twenty third.

927
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:27.400
At some point, Ryan awoke on the floor completely unaware

928
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.880
that he was potentially mortally wounded. He moved about the

929
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:35.480
house on the twenty fourth all day doing small tasks,

930
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.280
covering Heather up with a blanket, unaware that she was dead.

931
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:42.760
And then the very next day, which was Christmas, is

932
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.239
when the couples no showed for their holiday activities. That

933
00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:50.000
same morning, Larry returned back home because he was worried

934
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.079
that his wife was cheating on him, and he went

935
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:56.480
to brunch with his family. Later that evening is whenever

936
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.559
roommate Alicia arrived back from her mother's house, saying she

937
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.960
couldn't get in the house because the dead bolt was locked.

938
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:05.840
Ryan let her in the house and when she turned

939
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:09.119
on the lights, he looked beat up. She asked him

940
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:13.079
what happened. Ryan told her, don't worry about it. Two

941
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:17.440
guys tried to break in, but I handled it. At

942
00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:20.400
this point, I want you to know. Police did do

943
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:23.039
a follow up interview with Alisha after they had learned

944
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:28.000
all of this, and Alisha would subsequently admit to police

945
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:30.880
that a lot more had happened that night. When she

946
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:35.800
arrived back home. She told them, all right, look, I

947
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:38.519
am the one who cleaned up a lot of the

948
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:43.039
blood in the house. She had not previously said this,

949
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.119
and I think it was out of fear that it

950
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:47.760
looked like she might have done something that she didn't do.

951
00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:50.280
But she said that when she got into the house

952
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.119
after Ryan let her in and told her don't worry

953
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:54.519
about it, some people tried to break in. Whatever she

954
00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:57.840
saw blood smeared kind of all over the place. When

955
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.840
she went into her bathroom in the hallway, she saw

956
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:04.280
blood smeared on the cabinets and all that kind of stuff.

957
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.599
It grossed her out, and so she decided, look, don

958
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.840
I gotta start cleaning this shit up because Ryan's beat up,

959
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:12.360
and this is gross. When she turned to the tub,

960
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:16.039
the tub had water in it blood, and there was

961
00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:20.119
also vomit in the tub, so she needed that to drain.

962
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:23.639
She was completely grossed out, but it wasn't draining because

963
00:57:23.719 --> 00:57:27.480
Ryan's wallet had been stuffed down and was blocking the

964
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:31.079
drain hole. So she reached down. She got Ryan's wallet

965
00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:34.079
out of the drain, wiped the blood up in the

966
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:38.519
hall and some other blood that she saw in the

967
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:42.199
living room. But she got so grossed out by all

968
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:43.800
of the blood and everything that was going up she

969
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:45.440
just threw her hands up and she said she was

970
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:48.920
done with it. At that point, Ryan walked out of

971
00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:51.639
the room and he was moaning. So she did go

972
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:55.079
and get him some Exceedron. But when she was bringing

973
00:57:55.119 --> 00:58:00.679
him the Exceedron, she did see Heather asleep on a couch.

974
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.840
But she said, it was dark in the room. You know,

975
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:05.679
I didn't go in there. I didn't flip the lights on.

976
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:08.679
I did not realize anything had happened to her. I

977
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:12.159
really thought that she was asleep, he said, she said.

978
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.280
While I was doing this, Ryan even walked over to Heather,

979
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:20.880
who Alicia thought was sleeping and said, Heather, get up, Heather,

980
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:24.159
wake up. But Heather just kind of seemed to ignore him,

981
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:27.760
and so Ryan just went back to his bed alone.

982
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:32.079
Alicia never entered his room. She just handed him the excentrin,

983
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:35.239
never went into the room, so she never saw the

984
00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:38.400
blood that was all over his bedroom. She then went

985
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:41.840
to her room, smoked and fell asleep watching super Troopers,

986
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:45.400
awakened by police the next morning. The rest from this

987
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:52.519
point you already know. Both Richie and his father Larry

988
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:56.559
would be charged with the murder of Heather Kwan and

989
00:58:56.800 --> 00:59:02.400
the attempted murder of Ryan Waller. Richie would be convicted

990
00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:06.920
in June of two thousand and eight of felony, murder, burglary,

991
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:12.000
aggravated assault, and misconduct involving weapons, and as a result

992
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:16.840
of this, he would be sentenced to life in prison. Now,

993
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:22.360
Richie and his dad, Larry were initially they were charged

994
00:59:22.519 --> 00:59:30.039
together okay for this, but a decision would be made

995
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:32.880
later on to separate them and that they should be

996
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:38.800
given two separate trials, not tried together. But this would

997
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:43.039
then cause a problem because Larry's case wouldn't run so

998
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:47.119
smooth now, because the case against Larry was based in

999
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:51.199
part on confessions, largely in part of the confessions that

1000
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:55.079
his wife Cheryl, had made to police. Well, when police

1001
00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:59.320
attempted to contact her to give her the subpoena to

1002
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:03.119
go to court, Cheryl was suddenly really hard to find.

1003
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:08.519
Was she dead, that something happened to her? Well, No,

1004
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:13.800
an informant was able to tell police where her location

1005
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:17.320
was and where she was staying. I have a seeking

1006
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.480
suspicion that that informant was Brenda, because they were at

1007
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:23.559
one of Brenda's houses. But I don't have direct knowledge

1008
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:26.480
to say that to you directly. But when police arrived

1009
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.760
at that address to serve Cheryl with the subpoena to testify.

1010
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:32.400
Cheryl happened to be walking up to her front door

1011
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.039
and as their vehicle, the police vehicle came to a

1012
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:38.039
stop in front of the house, Cheryl looked up and realized,

1013
01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:40.519
oh god, the police are stopping at my house. And

1014
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:45.000
that's when she tore off, running into her backyard. So

1015
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.480
the police jump out and they're like Cheryl, Cheryl, Cheryl,

1016
01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:49.280
she is running. She's trying to get away from him.

1017
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:52.159
She doesn't want to be served. So a short chase ensues,

1018
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:54.519
but the officers were able to grab her and catch

1019
01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:59.159
her in the backyard, where they begrudgingly escorted her back

1020
01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:02.079
to the front yard. So they try to now explain

1021
01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:04.079
to her, we're not arresting. We're here to give you

1022
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:06.960
a subpoena. We're here to subpoena you. She refused to

1023
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:09.480
look at it. She wouldn't look at it. She didn't

1024
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:11.079
want to talk about it, she didn't want anything to

1025
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:13.440
do with it. Well, her adult daughter, one of her

1026
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:16.480
adult daughters, was there at the house during this commotion.

1027
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:21.159
She came outside. She was a witness to Cheryl being subpoenaed,

1028
01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:26.159
and the officers explained what was going on. They both

1029
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.320
were advised at that point, this is a court order.

1030
01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:31.440
You are being told to come testify and if you

1031
01:01:31.519 --> 01:01:34.280
do not show up now you're going to be arrested

1032
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:36.840
and go to jail. You've been subpoena to come do this.

1033
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:40.679
With that, Cheryl threw her nose straight up in the

1034
01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:44.159
air and police let go of her because they had

1035
01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:47.800
now issued the subpoena she had been served. Cheryl literally

1036
01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:49.960
threw her nose up in the air in like just

1037
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.760
total defiance, and she stormed off inside into the house.

1038
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:58.760
So the subpoena was served to Cheryl, but obviously she

1039
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:03.440
was now no longer a helpful witness. So with Cheryl

1040
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:08.360
unwilling to testify against her husband, Larry's case began to

1041
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:13.880
fall apart. And because of this, incredibly the case against

1042
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:20.320
Larry Carver was dismissed. He walked out of jail a

1043
01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:24.599
free man. Now this is the part where I would

1044
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:28.639
love to say the end, and I've wrapped this up

1045
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:34.199
in a beautiful bow for you. But there's more. I'm

1046
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:36.280
so sorry to tell you this. I've been going for

1047
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:40.800
an hour here, but there's more. Yes, it continues on.

1048
01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:44.159
I'm going to continue this series, and I'm going to

1049
01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:48.599
complete this series next week for you. But I want

1050
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:52.280
you to trust me, even if you think you know

1051
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:56.519
how this ends. Oh, I know this story. You need

1052
01:02:56.519 --> 01:03:00.280
to listen when I tell you, no, you don't. You

1053
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:04.679
don't unless you have pulled the records yourself like I have.

1054
01:03:05.719 --> 01:03:08.840
I am willing to bet you you have been misled

1055
01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:14.079
by the media in epic proportions, just as I realized

1056
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:17.599
I have been four years until I saw things for

1057
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:23.119
myself in black and white. Major news outlets have echoed

1058
01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.400
mistruths and have spawned fairy tales that have altered the

1059
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.360
course of additional lives in this case that are rarely,

1060
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.679
if ever mentioned to this point. Laws have now been

1061
01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:39.119
changed due to this very case, and finger pointing based

1062
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:43.679
on emotion rather than the facts continues to cause social

1063
01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:48.559
disruption in the wake of this case. Still today, will

1064
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:53.960
Larry ever be held accountable, Does Cheryl's refusal to cooperate

1065
01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:59.599
violate any laws? And does a failure to know the

1066
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:06.079
whole truth excuse unfounded claims and threats of violence that

1067
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:10.960
will be heading towards another family in this instance? As

1068
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:15.079
a fair and just society, we owe it to ourselves

1069
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:19.119
to look at all of these issues in totality and decide.

1070
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.719
I'll tackle this and more in next week's conclusion. Until then,

1071
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:28.519
at least one career criminal is off the streets. Thank

1072
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:33.360
god Richie is locked up. That's a great thing, with

1073
01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:37.079
so many chances though, to rethink things. At some point,

1074
01:04:37.159 --> 01:04:40.440
you'd have thought that Richie would start making better decisions,

1075
01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:43.679
but he didn't. He kept going back to that house,

1076
01:04:44.119 --> 01:04:49.440
knowing it would only continue to escalate an already souring situation.

1077
01:04:50.440 --> 01:04:54.840
All they had to do was leave, go, and don't

1078
01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:58.599
look back. I mean hell, even the damn iguana knew

1079
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:00.320
it needed to haul ass from that house when the

1080
01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:05.000
poor thing drowned. But because of bruised egos and the

1081
01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:08.679
decision to rob people instead of getting a job, too,

1082
01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:12.599
grown ass men went and shot two people, taking the

1083
01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:16.920
life of one and severely altering the life of the other.

1084
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:21.440
It is truly unbelievable what is going on here, and

1085
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:23.480
all we can all do at this point is shake

1086
01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:27.159
our heads like what the heck? Because when a drowned

1087
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:30.480
reptile is winning the common sense contest in your family,

1088
01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:33.199
it tells me everything that I need to know