Part Five | Did She Do it: The Investigation Into Karen Read

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning, Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ you're back for the other episode of Unspeakable, and this is gonna be the final, the grand ending. We will finish the care and read case today. I know you're excited about that because this has been a long one.

1:12 Before I start that, I want to tell you this. You got a bonus episode coming from my Patreon members. It'll be posted here shortly after you're listening to this, So y'all go check that out and I'll let you know whenever it posts, I'll give you a little message or whatnot. And also, Patreon members of my Crime family, all your quarterly gifts have mailed out, so you may not have received them. Yet, but be on the lookout because everyone has been put into the mail by this point. So look for those. I'm really excited about them. I think they're awesome, and yes I made them, so totally stoked about that. Now, last episode we left off with a ton of deleted calls by Jennifer McCabe, and there was a lot of question about why would you delete phone calls in your logs? And then there was a whole bunch of chronic calling that was done between Jennifer McCabe and John O'Keefe's phone, which was kind of like, why were you doing that? And then she explained that a way to be butt dials. And so there was a whole lot going on when we finished last episode about some weird looking stuff going on in the cell phone world of all of these people involved. So let's pick back up with the date that John died, because I know this has been a long drawn out series here.

2:18 He died on the twenty ninth of January. Well, on January the thirtieth, it was realized that not only did Jim McCabe and Carrie Roberts meet up that day, but both of the women and these are the only two other women that found John O'Keefe's body with Karen Reid right, So both women went to none other than Sergeant Lank's house like his personal home where he lived. Sergeant Lank, remember, was the first officer that's friends with the in law Alberts that went in and talked to them at the very beginning that morning, and it wasn't recorded and there was no body cam or anything like that. Us women went to Sergeant Lank's house. But what's interesting about this is that neither one of them remembered to tell the police this at any point during the investigation. But they also both forgot to mention whenever they were testifying in front of a grand jury to see if this should go to trial or not. Both women failed to mention it to the grand jury that they went to the lead investigator at that moment's home, his personal home together. Now, the way that this was figured out the records, phone records and GPS's were being scrutinized of these women, and so that's how this was figured out. Well, now that those records and those GPS's were really being looked at,

3:50 the women gave an explanation as to why they were both at the very officer's house who investigated this case really early on, and when they were both con fronted about it, they both had an explanation of why they would have been at his house. Jen McCabe said that they were there to pick up or they were together. Rather, the two women were together because they went to pick up Carrie's daughter, who was friends with Sergeant Lank's kids, so their kids were friendly, so they had to go pick up their Carrie's daughter from the house. But then a year later, when they were questioned about that, she said that they were dropping off Carrie's daughter. So it seems like a small discrepancy in nature. But I may need to remind you of this because this is you know, we cut off last episode that the day before that all took place, Jen McCabe had texted her sister in Lonicole Albert the text of quote, we will get more info tomorrow end quote. When conveniently, now tomorrow was the very day that she and Carrie Robert, We're at Sergeant Lank's house. So were those two related in what they were saying that we'll get more information tomorrow and then they end up at the investigator's home or is that just explained away as we were either dropping off or picking up a kid, Because it's a different story when they were asked at different times. So Jim McKay is

5:20 saying we either were dropping her off or picking her up whatever. But you have to ask yourself another question about this. How long would that have taken after arrival? So I want it before I go forward. If you were going to either drop off a kid or pick up a kid from a friend's house, how long would that take? Do you have a number in your head? I'm thinking seven to eight minutes, even if you have to wave and say hello or whatever. Seven to eight minutes. Now I wouldn't think that they would be talking because an investigator would realize that this is a suspect slash witness at his home the day after a body's been found. But whatever, we don't all think the same. I'm thinking seven eight minutes, say hey by, all right, see you later. Do you think it would take forty five minutes to an hour to either drop off or pick up a kid?

6:05 Because Karen Reid's team realized this, and only then did Jen McCabe suddenly remember that Sergeant Lank's wife had come outside when they were there, and she had gotten in the car and spoke to Carrie and Jen. Sitting in the car, she said, I never went in the house. I forgot about this. Lank's wife came out, she got in the car with us, and we sat in the driveway talking. But then another problem was raised with that because her GPS showed that she did in fact go in the house. Your phone shows this, Jen, So what is it. You didn't stop, then you did stop for forty five minutes, then you're proven to have gone into the house. And then she says, oh, well, I may have gone inside to use the bathroom, but I know I did not talk to Sergeant Lank while I was there.

7:00 But then she was confronted with yet another issue. Initially, she claimed that they left John's that day and then dropped Karen's daughter at Lan's, saying, we went together, We had Karen's daughter, We went to John's house, and then we went to Lank's house. But again that peschial cell phone showed something different. Jen McCabe left her house, did go to John's house. I believe it was had to do with kids again, exchanging kids. But then she went back to her house, and then she went to the in law Albert's residence i e. Her sister's house, and then she went to Sergeant Lank's house for almost an hour and then back home. So again after she was faced with this information, she then remembered, Oh, yeah, we went by the house, but again only after GPS proved this, and she says that they they just drove by the house.

8:03 She says, we did not pick anybody up. We didn't stop, We just drove by the house, just randomly drove by on the way to Sergeant Lank's house. That she completely forgot to mention it, and even though it was completely out of her way, she and Carrie just drove by her sister's house just to look at it, but didn't pick anybody up. So were the women all getting together and then going to Lank's house to quote get more information to ensure that their stories aligned or is this all just a forgotten coincidence? I know I think that that stinks, but I'm gonna let you decide what you think. Maybe they just don't have a good memory of what they did that day. And the texts and her phone were also being scrutinized in relation to this even more because remember the family group text that I mentioned last episode, specifically where she was telling the people in her family Carrie is here, meaning at the mcab home, because she said she had asked Karen to come over to go over a timeline. Okay, remember that. Well, this was also on February first, one day before she handed over her phone to police. They were trying to put a timeline together.

9:19 The day before she turns over her cell phone to police, and then a few days after that, Jen mccab calls Trooper Proctor, who she claims she doesn't know fourteen times. I'm gonna sprinkle something else in here that it was just too glaringly obvious for me to ignore. So I just want to add this in. Okay, the day after John's death, Jen McCabe went to John's house and said she wanted to see the family, She wanted to share in their grief, She wanted to show her love and support at the house. Okay, lots of people were there, People were in and out, they were dropping off food and doing those things that we all do during times of grief when there's a loss of somebody. And Jen McCabe stayed for a few hours at John's house. And this in and of itself is normal. I don't have any issues with that, except when you mix it with everything that I've just mentioned. Plus, she continued to stay in touch with Carrie, a woman she wasn't previously tight with, and after John's death, all of a sudden, they just are staying really She's staying really tight with this woman that she was not friends with before, really tight. And she said this was because they just became close friends after John's death and they had bonded through the trauma.

10:40 But if that's all it was, then why was Jen McCabe asking Carrie to call the DA's office and ask questions for her. Why wouldn't Jen McCabe just call herself unless you didn't want the DA's office to know it was you that actually had the questions, maybe because you might be a suspect in something. She also knew that Carrie was also following the case closely on TV. Carrie was even going to court hearings because she wanted to know what happened to her friend. Carrie wanted to know. Carrie knew a lot. Like I said, I feel like Jen McCabe was using Carrie as a pawn. She was a tool in the game, and it kind of seemed like Jen McCabe went to John's house to go listen and maybe see what was being said at the house.

11:33 I know that's a reach for some people, but she's not directly being involved or calling the DA's office herself. She's getting Carrie Roberts to do it. And then she goes and stays a couple hours at a house where most people were just staying for a little while, dropping off food and doing their thing. But I'm gonna let you decide what you think there. But back to Karen's SUV. So by now Karen's SUV data had been pulled because they had the vehicle in custody, and it gave a lot of insight to her driving the night of John's death. Because this has been huge what exactly happened while she was parked in front of the house. So what I'm gonna tell you is based on experts explanations of her vehicle's movement the night of John's death. And I'm basically gonna be summarizing here to get to the point, because I mean, I could spend a whole hour just on this, but you're not interested in that, I'm gonna sum it up for you, So here we go. A digital forensics expert analyzed the data from the SUV and identified what we're referred to as two triggering events. One was the vehicle turning on, which was at twelve twelve, and the second one was nineteen minutes later, and it was a three point turn that was made. So in that three point turn that was done, the data from her SUV showed that her SUV drove forward about thirty five feet

13:05 before backing up roughly sixty two feet. But here's the thing. At seventy four percent throttle, which meant she was gassing it, and she reached twenty four miles per hour going back that sixty two feet. So I want to start out with saying that's fast for anyone to drive in reverse, and a reasonable person, I would say, would know that this was not appropriate. But I wanted to make sure I was really clear on how far that was. So I did what I do, and I know that I'm distance challenged. I couldn't necessarily narrow that down to put in a perspective in my mind's eye, so I googled it sixty two feet is the length of a bowling lane, So you're driving almost twenty five miles an hour in reverse the length of a bowling lane. So her car was also a smart car in terms of electronics, and her car would beep if she was close to something as well as she had a three hundred and sixty degree overhead camera on that SUV that showed all of her surroundings, assuming that she was even looking at it at that rate of speed. So I want you to get a picture of what all she would have had in her cabin of her vehicle and how fast she was going. According to John's phone, he didn't move after twelve thirty two, So if you add nineteen minutes to the time of the vehicle being turned on, it equals

14:37 the time that John was believed to be hit and the time that his phone stopped moving. So the reason that I'm saying add the nineteen minutes is because I just told you her vehicle was turned on at twelve twelve, so I don't know. You know, she's in the front of the house. She cuts it off. She Karen Reid said that she sat out there a long time, but before she got pissed off and she left the house. So if the car turned on at twelve twelve and then the next triggering event was nineteen minutes later, if you add them together, you get the same time that John's phone stopped moving. That's why I'm telling you that.

15:18 So after that event, John's phone didn't move again until six h four a m. I think you're kind of getting what I'm getting at It almost makes perfect sense that she would have hit him, like literally, the times add up perfectly that he stopped moving at that time. But the other issue then became that John's phone may not show that it's moving anymore, but his health data app did on his phone. It showed that John took eighty two steps over three minutes minutes, which included three flights of stairs. So, looking at this the end in law Albert's home had a basement. It also had an upstairs, but it was plausible to say that John could have gone in the house and then down to the basement and then carried back up after an altercation. But the data also showed that this happened between the twelve thirty one and the twelve thirty two timeframe, in which if you remember which I know you don't. That's why I keep having to go back and forth and tell you this.

16:30 Karen's phone had already connected to John's WiFi by then, so it's just not jiving here. The vehicle data of Karen's SUV also did not show a collision in the data of her car, But to be fair, the experts also said that a human versus a vehicle's velocity at the speed she was going, he wouldn't weigh enough to register a quote unquote crash on the data. So the fact that but it wasn't there didn't mean anything in that regard. Jim, did you see what happened in Texas today?

17:11 Wait before you tell me that, let me tell you what happened in New York. It cannot be as crazy as the case I told you about yesterday in Louisiana. You know what, we should do a podcast. About it, and with that we did. Crime War Weekly covers the crime news headlines that have dominated the week. We cover trending crimes from all over the country and even sprinkle in a few globally. Crime War Weekly is available now wherever you listen to your podcasts. Simply by searching Crime War weekly or clicking the link in the description of this podcast. So if the health app is to be believed, then Karen couldn't have possibly hit him. The time doesn't work, but if the phone clock is to be believed, then she could have. So this is where I'm gonna insert my personal thoughts here. My own daughter and it was very bizarre that this happened. But my own daughter and I were looking at her health app about a week ago and it showed on her phone that she had gone up two flights of stairs that day when she had been at work in a one story building, and we laughed about it. She's like, what stairs did I go up? I said, I don't know. That app's stupid. Well, knowing what I know, I know that that happened in my life. Knowing what I know, I'm more inclined to trust the phone time, not the health app. And I even went to the health app myself in my phone

18:41 to look at it, and the app says explicitly that a flight of stairs is logged if a person experiences a ten foot elevation change. So that got me going hmhm, because the average home in the US has nine to ten foot ceilings for reference. Okay, so it would be hard to fake that type of elevation change or to simply just get it wrong and then three times at that. So I don't know where you would stand with that. I know in my personal experience, I've seen it's wrong on the health Data app. But it also says that there's a ten foot elevation change required for it to show a flight of stairs. But you do you. I'm just telling you the facts of what were presented. So now let's go to Karen's tail light last episode. I told you all about the tail light pieces that were found after none were found the first search, and there then were more pieces found later on. And then the more pieces that were found were never documented nor photographed, yet they were turned in as evidence. So how could this possibly be explained? Well, Karen's team believed that the light may have been cracked when she bumped into John's car backing out the morning when they went to go find him, but the prosecution's case was that she hit John and the tail light shattered at the scene. The snow then must have inhibited the collection of all of the pieces, and so that's why they were found over

20:14 the next few days, including a whole ass shoe of John's that was missing. So let's back up here for a second. When when Karen's car was taken into custody, there was a trooper. His name was Nick Barrows. Okay, Trooper Nick Barrows was called out about two thirty pm to go and get Karen's SUV. He was called by Trooper Proctor, and Trooper Proctor said it was to be seized because it was used in a homicide. And by the way, I want to make sure you understand this, I'm talking about the very same day of John's death. He already called this trooper who was with another agency, by the way, to say we're coming to get this vehicle used in a homicide. This is the very same day that he's dead. How did he come to the conclusion of homicide so quickly. Well, Trooper Barros was from another agency, like I said, but I want to make sure to point out he was no way affiliated with state Police or with Canton PD. What this was was a was basically a courtesy call. Proctor called that agency because it was a different jurisdic jurisdiction Proctor was going to have to go into this other jurisdiction, which is where Karen's parents lived, where the SUV was parked. Now to go get that car. So as a courtesy, he made the call to say we're coming in your jurisdiction, and the trooper from that jurisdiction would come and meet Trooper Proctor while the exchange happened. Okay, So Trooper Barros

21:48 made it to Karen's parents' house around three twenty seven PM and he watched the entire thing go down. When Karen's vehicle was being towed away, a company named Diamond Towing arrived and they had a flatbed truck and they loaded Karen's vehicle on to that truck. Now, Trooper Proctor and his boss, which is Buchanic, they were on the scene as well. They were there with Trooper Barrows, but they were inside talking, I'm assuming with Karen's parents or whomever was in the house. So when Trooper Barrows got out of his unit when he first arrived, he walked up to Karen's vehicle that was being towed and he specifically walked around the vehicle all the way to the back and he stood there and he watched her vehicle being loaded on to that flatbed, and he noted in his report because he had to write a report too.

22:39 Anything that happens, there's got to be a report written. He noted in his report that the right rear tail light was damaged, but his report stated that there was a crack in the light and that only one piece was missing. And the wording on the report said the light was quote not completely damaged, and that the piece that was missing was roughly six inches by three inches. So his report stated that there's a crack, but it's not completely damaged. And he was shown this trooper was shown a photo from evidence of Karen's rear tail light, and they said, is this the condition of the tail light when you were watching it being towed? And he stated that the light in that picture was and this is a direct quote, absolutely not in the same condition that the light was when the vehicle was being towed.

23:36 He said, this picture is absolutely not the same as the condition of the light when it was being towed. And he specifically said that the middle section of the tail light was intact when he saw the vehicle. The only thing that he mentioned was missing, he said, was this tiny piece and he said it was nowhere near what that light looked like now in that photo. Trooper Baros not only wrote a report about this, but he also noted the exact time when he quote unquote cleared the scene. And I want to explain what this means. Whenever you arrive on scene as a police officer, you have to radio in when you arrive, and then when you clear the scene, you have to radio out that you're leading the scene. So leaving the scene or clearing the scene means that your mission is complete. And in his case, that Karen's vehicle was gone, it was being towed.

24:31 The time that he cleared the scene was at four seventeen PM. And I'm being so specific right here because it will matter. Even the cameras at the read home, at the parents' home, captured the towing process and their cameras showed this happening, and you can see the car being towed up and guess what. The tail light in the back of that car is definitely way more intact than the evidence photo in the reports by trooper You can see it with your own eyes. And by the way, I do have pictures of this that I will put on Patreon for you. You can go make your own judgment call if you don't trust or if you want to just make your own judgment call either way. So Karen's defense team got to wondering how the hell could the tail light change so much from the time that it was towed to the time that the evidence photos were taken. Well, Karen's vehicle was reported to have been towed to the Canton PD Sallyport as evidence already, so they wanted to go. The team wanted to go look at the video of when the car was towed and compare the tail light to the condition upon arrival versus when it was first toad from the read parents' house. Well, issue number one, Karen's vehicle or the light nor the light were photographed when they first arrived at this sally port, so the comparison would not be possible. There was no picture to compare when it first arrived. Another issue was that the crime lib had trouble removing her tail light initially.

26:03 So Gallagher, who works for the at the Canton pdee the Lieutenant Gallagher, he called and had another Canton officer show up who works on their fleet vehicles. This is very commonplace to have an officer that works on the fleet vehicles. That officer came to assist and pull the light out. Well, since they struggled pulling the light out, was it possible that it was broken at that point? Well, no one has mentioned this as an issue at all, So to guess that or infer that, no one has said it, and I think that that would be improper. No one has testified or made a statement that that happened. Well, the video at the sally Port showed that the vehicle arrived by tow truck at five thirty seven pm, but that was now not matching Proctor's report. His report said that he took custody of the vehicle at five point thirty pm. But remember I just told you he actually took custody of it when it left the Reeds Home back at four fifteen, four seventeen timeframe. This is gonna matter in a huge way in just a second. Okay, hang with me. The car arrived via tow truck to the sally Port and Trooper Proctor as well as Chief Berkowitz, the chief of Canton p D. They walk in that sally Port shortly thereafter, and the camera shows Proctor is standing near the rear light of the car but it

27:33 was on the opposite side of the car. Have y'all ever seen the movie Speed. It's got Sandra Bullock in it and Keanu reeves the bus Speed. Yeah, it's a great movie. Jim loves it. Yeah, you'll leave that in. Okay, we'll leave that in for y'all. Yall can hear Jim be excited? Okay, great movie. But the way that they got busted, Do y'all remember how they got busted when they were trying to trick the bad eyes. It's because the video looped to show It was supposed to show that they were all seated, but the woman, the little Asian woman, slightly moved her arm and that's how the bad guy caught on because her arm would move, it would jerk and say he was like, wait a minute, this is loop ah right, And that's how the movie kind of goes Well, what happens here is kind of along the same lines, because while the defense team is watching and really scrutinizing this video, they noticed that suddenly someone appears out of thin air in the video at the very corner of the screen. It's like, what the hell, how did someone just appear? Did someone has this film been edited? How did someone just appear? So a closer look and y'all, it's up in the corner corner. It's not the center of the frame. So you would have to really really be looking to see this. But show enough, woop, somebody just appears. So a closer look would show that either the video had been edited or quote randomly missing a portion of the tape endo quote like you know when right when by the vehicle, What do you think is it randomly missing a piece of tape? Or do

29:05 you think that someone edited it? Well, when they looked at it even closer, try to understand what was going on, Karen's defense team noticed something else. The video was actually mirrored, Okay, mirrored meaning flipped. That would mean that Proctor when he walks in, he's actually on the right side of the rear of the vehicle, not the left. That means he's standing right next to the tail light. That is going to be argued as in a different condition than when it left. And he uh the read home and he took possession of the vehicle, so he's right out. You can't see him. He's behind the vehicle and he's on the right taillight. What the hell is he doing? So why does someone magically appear in this edited video that it looks like? And then why is it mirrored? Y'all?

29:59 It's a lot, it's a lot to take in. So that's when the defense had an aha moment. They're like, hold up, hold the fucking phone. No light pieces were found in the first search after John's body was found. None. Then that's when that SRT team was called in. But they were called in and didn't show up until around five pm. The reports even said this, and that's when they found all of those pieces that no one had seen before and a shoe. Well, whenever Sergeant Propters asked about this, he's like, wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what's going on here. That must just be a typo on my report. But it sure seems a little more sus when you have a you're saying it's a typo on what time you picked it up. But combined with a mirrored video as well as someone magically appearing, I don't know, y'all. Coincidences, I don't believe in them.

30:58 And if he had the vehicle at four fifteen pm, yet he lied or errored, made a mistake, as he said, it would have been an hour and fifteen minute error. And then the video received was clearly edited and mirrored. And the other unrelated officer from another town said that the light was nowhere near the condition that he was seeing in this picture when it left his possession. So it sure seems like that left enough time now think about it. That error on the report now left a little bit over an hour where someone I don't know could have possibly further broken the tail light and then brought the pieces to thirty four Fairview to help out his friends before the SRT team got there to do the additional search. It sounds crazy until you put it all together. And now his report showed that there was some extra time there over an hour, and he's standing right near the tail light that is now in much different condition than it left the read residence. The incorrect report time also adjusted in that regard for there to not be enough time for him to go and disperse more light fragments because he narrowed the window of opportunity.

32:27 So I don't know, y'all, this looks more like on purpose than an accidental error on what time he says he got the vehicle in his possession. It stinks. All of this combined it stinks. So continue on with the crime lab doing its thing. During their processing, they identified glass on the back bumper of Karen's vehicle. That glass, when it was tested, was found to not match any glass from the vehicle. So still to this day, still right now as I am recording this, I have no answer as to where that glass came from, and neither does anybody else. I have a theory. Okay, I can't prove it at all what I'm about to what I'm about to say, but it's clear that the light was broken after it went into Procter's possession, or further broken after it went in Proctor's possession. There's no other thing that you could think happened here. With everything combined, it almost seems like maybe someone used a similar glass like John was holding and drinking when he got out of the car, to further break the tail light, so the pattern break could possibly be similar. I can't prove that at all. I'm telling you now, I'm saying allegedly because I can't prove this, but there are still to this day no answers as to where this random glass came from.

33:51 It didn't come from the light bulbs in the rear of the light. It didn't come from the tail light. No one can match it to anything. So where did this rando glass come from? Still no answers. They also found zero blood, zero from John O'Keefe on that vehicle. So now you're saying to me, Karen hit him and killed him, but no blood transferred, none transferred on this vehicle. They did recover one one hair, one single hair on the back quarter panel of the vehicle, but that meant nothing to me personally. I mean, he's in that car, he's out of that car all the time. His hair being there doesn't tell me anything, especially one like one hair doesn't tell me anything. So as far as the lab and John's clothing was concerned, it too was tested for DNA that clothing and an animal DNA expert was used for this because remember those scratches looked like a dog.

34:50 They look like a scratch and a bite. Well, they did not find dog DNA. Did not find dog DNA. But the reasoning would make complete sense because even according to the dog expert, dog nails are made of keratin. Keratin degrades substantially in that weather that they had with the snow turning water, the cold conditions, and especially if it was not collected correctly, that's it made sense that there would be no dog DNA on the clothing. But strangely, you know what they did find. They found pig dna.

35:32 No explanation there, really, they found pig dna. So it's like, are there any rogue pigs running around out in a snowstorm? That that's kind of crazy. So they talk more with these with these experts, and the expert says, look, we would need an actual claw from Chloe the dog to test for scratching from an animal, but that wasn't provided and it wasn't able to even be obtained because the in law, Albert's, had since gotten rid of Chloe. Now this became an argument too, They say we didn't get rid of her, we re homed her. They also said that Chloe had already gotten in a fight with other dogs and even a person. Actually two women in recent history went to the hospital trying to break up a fight between Chloe and another dog. So they said they they gave Chloe to some farmer in another state, right whenever this happened. So I'm also going to add here that they got rid of their home as well. The in law Albert sold the family home that had been in their family for fifty years. After this happened. The in law Albert said that they had discussed this for two years and this wasn't weird because their kids were all growing up and about to be gone, and so they were wanting to downsize because it was just too much house. So some believed it was to get rid of the house because something happened in that basement, maybe a fight or something. Because guess what else, The in

37:03 law Alberts refinished their basement just before selling it, but it wasn't fully remodeled, just the basement, and then here ad this twice. The basement was ripped up. It was done before John died because they said they had a plumbing issue, but then it was remodeled again after John died. It would it would take me too much time to go through like everything in all of this. But basically one side was saying, yeah, they had to redo it twice because of sewage issues and so it had to be resolved before it could be sold. But the other side believed it was because blood cannot be erased. From cement, and they believe that there might have been blood on that cement floor, and so it had to be dug up because not all of the basement was remodeled, just a section of it, and not once but twice in just a few years. So I'm leaving again, I'm leaving that up to you to decide. You can decide which side of that you want to be on. What about the doctors involved in all of this, was further testing done or observation done on John's body, Well, the wounds found on John were not consistent with a vehicle strike. Well, at least I'll tell you the ones on the arm were not. Those looked more like animal scratches and bites.

38:26 If anything. The autopsy findings found that John did not this was across the board, did not look to have been hit by a car. And the medical examiner wouldn't commit to this as a cause of death because it was very unclear even with the information provided to her what happened to John. But she would not say a car hit him. It didn't look like it. And I already told you about John's wound, so I'm not gonna repeat all that here, but I'm gonna add a little bit more information for your consideration. His blood alcohol content. This was taken from his eye fluids. It was point two eight. And by the way, ee fluid blood alcohol content is a little bit more reliable than say, taken from the dead body you know, elsewhere, because eye fluids lag in their reduction rate of alcohol, so you can get a better testing from eye fluids. So the doctor that did this, her whole belief was that John had struck the back of his head, and when he hit the back of his head, that is what caused the eye swelling and those eyes to feel full of blood.

39:33 They were a result to the back of the head. The doctor was very clear about this. He had no knuckle bruising at all. So if he had been in a fistfight, he would have had knuckle bruising. She said, he did not have any knuckle bruising. She said, the bruise that she saw on him she believed to be from an IV put in his hand. And she even said because the actual needle point in the hand like the little hole. She could see it, so when you're looking at the pictures of it, his hands are like there is a bruise. She said that was from IV when they were trying to bring him back and try to keep him alive. She also said, yeah, he did have rib fractures. So you're like, okay, well the car could have hit him, and she said nope. She said those rib fractures were consistent with CPR and extensive resuscitation efforts.

40:18 She's seen it a million times. And she said he also would not have died immediately with what was going on here. So, as far as being directly asked, was John hit by a car? Can you say yes or no? Her exact words were, quote, it's likely and it's unlikely. It just depends on too many factors. So they took John's brain. They sent his actual brain to a brain specialist, and her findings were based just on the injury to his brain. And this specialist said that the damage to his brain showed the initial impact was from the back of the head, not from the front, like a fistfight.

41:03 So what about in terms of probability, what's the probability that he was hit by Karen's car based on the crime scene reconstruction. And I know I'm throwing a lot at you, but that's just the way we're gonna have to summarize here. Well, the state did do an initial investigation investigation using their crime scene reconstructionist, And I want to give you a little bit of info on this guy. His name was Trooper Paul and he was certified to do reconstruction accident reconstruction. How was he certified? I wanted to tell you this because he had an associate's degree and then he went to some trainings and took some courses to qualify him for this. So, based on his drawing and his math calculations, he felt that basically Karen hit John. He flew backwards towards the flagpole, and that's how he got all his injuries. And without going into specific because it's technical and it's unnecessary for me telling the story, the math wasn't mathing. Even the experts said, this math isn't mathing where the pieces of tail light were found. It just did not compute with where John's body was found. He would have had to have literally flown backwards in the air, purewetted, and then landed where he was in relation to where the pieces were later found in the taillight. It just didn't make sense, and I felt he may know. When I was listening to this man talk, okay, I personally felt like he may

42:35 know how to do accident reconstruction, but he came across as not well prepared and he was unable to specifically articulate how he got to the findings that he found. And I would personally have to agree that there was something called confirmation bias in his quote unquote reconstruction that he did. Basically, when he pulled up, they told him what happened, and he may the evidence fit what he was told happened instead of pointing out the obvious flaws. And I say this because another reconstruction specialist was brought in to determine what he thought could have happened. Now, this guy's name is doctor Daniel Wolf. He is an accident reconstructionist and if you're on TikTok you will know him because TikTok loves him. He's handsome. I'm sure that helps, okay, But he is clearly more qualified in the physics and mathematics portion of accident reconstruction versus the officer who made his report. This guy is an expert. He is a PhD, very confident, and he's a third party in this case, with no hiring by either side the prosecution or the defense in this for his opinion. So the first guy had an associate's degree, a two year community college degree, and then he did some trainings. This guy that I'm about to tell you about PhD big time. No fight in, no dog in the fight. He just came up with his conclusions. And his specialties include bio mechanical engineering and physics.

44:07 So his job that he does is also part of studying sports injuries because they play a large role. His company that he works for plays a large role in aiding and better equipment to avoid injuries, and also in vehicles, so think like sport, you know, football helmets and things. So he has to actually know the body and specifics to injuries in car wrecks and sports, etc. He seems very qualified for this, the most qualified person I think they could find. Basically, his question that he was asked was how much force is allowed before injuries occur and what type will they be? So they often use crash test dummies and they're testing to allow for what they call human factors. And his overall finding and these are my words, by the way, not his, but his overall finding was that John O'Keefe was not hit by a car and his damage to his body would have been much worse if so. He also said the car light would not have exploded at the rate of speed that the car data showed. It just wouldn't have worked that way.

45:17 Tail Lights are made of polycarbonate specifically because of their impact resistance, and so the curvature, admittedly on a light at some points does have it can create a concentrated area of stress. But again he opined this that it simply was not possible as the state's reconstructionists said it happened, It's not physically possible. So then a doctor, Elizabeth Lopisada was brought in. She's a forensic pathologist. She reviewed John's physical injuries and her overall finding was that John's injuries were not consistent with a vehicle strike. Another doctor, doctor Marie Russell, she's a dog bite x She said that John's arm injuries were consistent with dog bites. And I'll add to this for your knowledge that she was this was her specific specialty. She was a medical doctor who studied dog bite wounds for many many years and was even published in the field. So Basically, what I'm telling you is that every qualified expert from every angle agreed that this was not consistent with being hit by a car.

46:30 So then why the hell you have to ask yourself was all the sketchy shit happening by the in law Alberts, the mccabs and so many officers that knew them. Well, let's summarize real quick the two overall theories at play. The prosecution's theory was that John and Karen were fighting because he was going to break up with her. She got mad, she gassed her vehicle and she backed into him in a drunken fit of anger, and then she tried to cover it up with all of the calls and all the searching that she did the next morning. Karen's defense and opposite their theory was that Karen dropped John off at the party. John went in the house and was some point, at some point either attacked by the dog or by a person, and specifically they kind of were leaning towards at f Higgins, which killed him.

47:25 And then they tried to frame Karen with the help of the police and the brother the Brothers in Blue. So for starters, Karen did go on trial for this and her first trial ended in a mistrial. It ended up being a mix of unable to agree on the evidence combined with a confusing verdict form, and the jury didn't know if basically they had to do an all or nothing vote or if the multiple charges could be separated. That jury said they did agree behind closed doors that she was guilty of one of the charges. It was the involution luntary manslaughter, which was a lesser included, but they kept debating on whether it had to be all or nothing on how they voted, and that's why they became hung. This is per a juror that was on there, and I listened to him talk about it. Some of the jurors wanted to ask questions, some didn't. The process was so confusing for them. They are not experts, and a lack of explanation to the jurors was the issue so open discussion for lay people. My point here is that it's vital. Yet the fear of persuading an outcome is what I think the judge was facing, because if you know, they couldn't straight up ask if they were deadlocked on one but clear on another charge, can we come to the conclusion or just one or must we come to a conclusion on all three and the judge, you know, they didn't get to do that, and everyone was afraid that they might influence the judge and it would or the judge would influence the jury and this

48:56 would become a hot mess. So the mistrial happened. So that's when the state doubled down and they went after Karen Reid again. And in the second trial, the lead investigator of this proctor, the guy I've been talking about for five plus hours in this series, the lead investigator did not even testify. How insane is that a state is going after Karen Reid, not once, but twice because they are so convinced that she killed John, Yet the lead investigator, the guy who led the charge against her, doesn't even testify. That's crazy, that's asinine, it's insane, and it's all because, in my opinion of everything I've just told you, this case fell to shit whenever Karen Reid's defense team put on a clinic on how to defend somebody, an absolute clinic on how it's done. And Karen Reid, i will let you know, was found not guilty after thirty one days of testimony in her second trial. So here it is, y'all, the big event. What do I think happened? Since everyone in their mama has been asking me, Kelly, what do you think happened? What do you think happened? Well, I'll tell you this. It's something that no one else has specifically said. But I feel very confident in my theory and that I watched this trial from beginning to end, and this is my opinion based on everything I personally

50:29 weighed in this case. I also want you to know that I cross reference to my timeline to the best that I could to see if what I thought was plausible, and it is. So here goes. Are you ready? I do not think that Karen Reid hit John O'Keefe, but I also do not think anyone else did either, And I'm going to defend my opinion. So hold you damn horses if you're tripping right now, all right, this is what that I happened. They were all drinking at the waterfall atf Higgins texted Karen while they were there and was following up on all of their sexy flirting, but per everybody's discussion about this, Karen never answered him. Hang on to that old neighbor Alberts. That's Chris and Julie that owned the pizza Alberts. Julie left early because she had a headache. Chris stayed a little bit longer and then he walked home, which took him about five to eight minutes. It was really really cold, and so when he got there, he went straight up to his room, he changed clothes, and he got in bed with Julie. Meanwhile, Karen and John got in her car to head to the in law Alberts. I want you to know neither one of them had ever been to the in law Alberts before. While they were driving, I believe that John saw the unopened text message from ATF. Higgins on Karen's phone because it would have right there on the screen

52:02 and at the top of the text message list. Remember she never answered him, and that notification would have been on the iPhone popped up right there as a red circle. Maybe John thought that it was the directions to the house because they didn't know where to go. But I think that John opened her phone and that's when he found that ATF. Higgins had sent her that text. He had already confronted Karen in the past about thinking something was going on. She admitted that, well, I think they had only been texting for twelve days. Remember, I think that he scrolled back in those text messages to understand why they were texting to begin with, and he sees the sexy talk. This would explain the quick shift from lovey dovey in the bar to fighting in just minutes during the drive, because everyone's like, how could that happen?

52:54 That's how the hell that could happen. So now they're in an argument. They're fighting Ellen Albert, the nephew left the in law Albert's home at that point. He was gone. The text messages in my timeline show that Karen and John arrive in front of the in law Albert's home and they are in the suv fighting out front of the house. John's wanting answers and Karen is feigning that he is being ridiculous because he knows what he saw in those messages y'all. But she's feigning that he's just being ridiculous and you know, you're out of line and I didn't do anything. He says, Okay, well fine, I'm gonna go ask him myself. Come on, let's go ask him.

53:34 I just see this happening as an argument. Get out of the car. Let's go. He's in there, Let's go talk to him. Karen says no. The reason she says no, she's drunk and she knows she's cooked. She is cooked if she has to answer questions right there, face to face with everybody while all of this is happening. That's when that boy that witness pulls up and he stops to get his sister. But remember she says, never mind. When they go to leave the house. The brother when he goes to drive off, John I think had already exited Karen's vehicle and he was on the house side of Karen's suv as that guy was driving pass. So basically that's why he saw Karen alone with the dome light.

54:20 Because he was going on one side of the suv while John was on the back side of the suv. He simply would not have seen him. And I think that John still had the drinking glass in his hand because we know he left the bar with it. So Karen's now pissed because she's gonna get busted about the Brian atf Brian Higgins situation. So Karen is now in the dome light in the suv and she's kind of looking through her phone to kind of remember what all had been said to atf Higgins because John got out pissed and he's now going up to the house. I think, so remember that that in law Alberts and everybody are now inside the house. They were waiting for John and all of them to show up. Chloe the dog started barking whenever she heard people at the house. So the in law Albert's are at the back door. Brian Albert himself said, I opened the door and I let Chloe out to potty. And something that stuck with me during the testimony is that he said that she misbehaved around other people. She's not good with people. And so the gate, if you're looking at the front of the house, the gate to the backyard is directly to the left hand side of the home, which is directly in line with the flagpole, which was right there where Karen Read's vehicle was parked. So he let Chloe out. The gate was open, the one right in front of where Karen is parked,

55:53 even Nicole Albert in law Albert Nicole said Chloe used the bathroom in the backyard unless the gate was left open, which obviously had already happened in the past because of the past dog bite incident in front of the house. So Karen gets pissed and she does the infamous three point squeal, tires back out, and she drives off mad Chloe. In the meantime, she has made her way out of the open gate, and I think that she either spooked John who slipped and fell, or I think that John was still in that area of Karen's car as she did the back out, but maybe he tried to get out of the way and he slipped and he fell because his feet came out from underneath him, which one I don't know exactly, but don't forget his blood alcohol content was like pretty high, so he was drunk. Balance would have been an issue, I'm sure either way. So either either way, I think that John slipped and fell backwards and hit his head. Well, Chloe goes up to John and she tries to kind of rouse him to wake him up. She digs and then she kind of does the little snip at him to get him up.

57:11 This is why the wounds don't look like a dog attack, but rather a nip or a bite. And they're scratching. And this also makes complete sense to me because of the pig DNA that was found. Why because while I was writing my notes, I looked down and watched my own weeny dog, Toby in my living room chewing on a pig ear. The light went off. Duh. Chloe was chewing on a pork treat of some type type before this, a pig ear or whatever. It's so common. The scratches wouldn't have DNA remaining because the claws were made of the keratin and the snow would have dissolved this, but the pig DNA would have remained from the teeth from chewing on a dog treat. Then Brian Albert, who is still at the back door, is calling for Chloe, and Chloe either comes back for the recall or Chloe does not come back for the recall, So somebody went outside.

58:10 I don't know if it was the in law Albert's that went out front to try to find Chloe, or if it was the mccabs, but somebody went outside at that point. Maybe the mccabs were leaving, or maybe it was out Brian Albert going to find the dog, but either way, someone went outside and that's when they found John on the ground. Chloe is out there and they think, oh my god, did Chloe attack him. This would have been the second attack where she did something that injured someone, and John's wounds were clearly grave. Two women were injured and had to go to the hospital to break up a dogfight with Chlode, which tells me she has been loose out front before and has not been monitored closely every single time. And in their minds they were gonna lose everything everything. Even Brian Junior testified that he got in bed after twish and he admits Brian Senior admits that he and his wife were awake, supposedly doing sexy time, but during sexy time, supposedly he calls Brian Higgins at two twenty two am. Then roughly five minutes later at two twenty seven that's when Jen McCabe searched how long to Die in the snow to see if there was a possibility to save him, and there wasn't. I googled it myself, by the way, how long to die in the snow? And the answer that pops up if you

59:43 google that says, quote extremely cold temperatures, especially with wind chill can cause frostbite within minutes. Hypothermia, where the body loses heat faster than it can produce, can lead to death in under an hour in very cold conditions. This meant Chloe had and let out over two hours by now, so John would have been past saving. They left him there because he was already gone, hoping someone else would find him, allowing them plausible deniability because there wasn't anything they could do to save him, and they didn't want their dog to be the link to them being responsible for it. They didn't kill him, but they knew they had to distance themselves from him. Thus that's why ATF.

1:00:29 Higgins dropped by the Canton p D. Forty five minutes later. What were they doing in the forty five minutes trying to figure out what to do? But I digress, And that's why ATF. Higgins claims he left the Alberts home with no explanation. He didn't tell anybody by. He just decided to leave, and then he checked for any calls whenever he poked his head in and said hey to Sergeant Good, trying to figure out has anyone called in for the body yet? But they just said hey, man, what's going on? Slow night? Not much going on. When he was there ATF Higgins, put his phone in a Faraday bag so that it could not track his movements whatever he was doing at that point. Karen then leaves the voicemails. Remember I say then, but I'm kind of I can't say things at the exact same time. But all of those voicemails, I want to address those. It makes sense that Karen left the voicemails calling John a pervert because he accused her of putting the f in ATF Higgins. If you follow what I'm saying. He accused her of sleeping with him or messing with him or whatever.

1:01:30 And that's why she brings up John's discretions in the voicemails, saying that you want to hook up with other women because when they were on vacation, Remember John had kissed that other girl. Well, she's drunk, Karen's drunk, and she's bringing up John's indiscretions to justify that he is wrong. He is a pervert for accusing her of that. Remember, you want to hook up with the other women, blah blah blah blah blah, because they're both toxic together and they're acting like teenagers whenever they fight. She drove to John's house, passed out, and awoke a few hours later, realizing John never came home. That's why she called the women, because those women might know where he is because they knew him. She was not good friends with those women, but she knew they knew him, and they agreed to co help find him. Jen McKay says to Karen Reid, come to my house because Jen wanted someone else with her to find him. I think that she already knew that John would be found out there, and I think that she was trying to protect herself and her sister by having someone else with her whenever they find the body.

1:02:45 So when Karen backs out, that's when she bumped John's car, causing that jagged broken piece at the top of the tail light. All of the women get together after that point and they all go back to John's house, which love be for Jen McCabe. That's when Karen noticed that her tail light was broken, and that's when Jen realized that that would tie her to hitting John and it would take the heat off of her sister. So the shock was genuine and it was real with Karen when she found John, because she did wonder, oh my god, maybe I did hit him. Maybe I did hit him. Whenever she sped away from the house all pissed off, she was in shock. She was giving CPR because the sight of him dead was new to her. That's why she was screaming, Carrie, Carrie, Carrie, Jen Jen. It seemed very very real to me. But Jen was more calm whenever she calls nine one one. I wonder why, because she already knew that he was there. So the in law Alberts never came out because they knew the deal and they wanted to seem unaware. The police arrived at five am. Jen McCabe called her sister thirty eight seconds long, but maintained she didn't talk to her. But I think that this was some type of alert of some sort to say, all right, the police are here. Lank goes in the house alone, talks to his good friends. They kind of are like, we didn't do anything. She hit him with her car, you know, blah blah blah blah blah.

1:04:14 So going off of the new broken light awareness, they all start shifting to say Karen said she hit him, rather than could I have hit him then other friends. Sergeant Proctor is assigned lead. The original reports said thirty four Fairview, but that changed to the next door address given at some point, so it kind of seems like that's the next door neighbor's property and not a direct tie to the Alberts directly. Are you following me? Because it's remember it switched to thirty two Fairview. Jim's search data would make sense in that the planeted pieces of tail light weren't yet thought of, and she didn't know about the broken tail light yet. At that point, they were just gonna pretend they didn't know what happened to John.

1:05:04 He must have fell outside or something, but they think Chloe did something. You follow me? Proctor then says she's fucked in the text messages because he's going to make sure that the case against Karen is solid. Proctor further broke the tail light to add more evidence because he believed the Alberts and he wanted to seal the deal against Karen. It's not that I think that they were This is going to sound weird. I don't think that Proctor had a vendetta against Karen personally. I think he was just trying to make it more clear and convincing that Karen must have hit him based on what the Alberts told him. He goes into the sally port after the vehicle. The video, by the way of that exact moment is missing and was inverted and then given to the defense to look like he was on the other side of the car. He then went, but when he was there is when he broke those pieces further. He then went, in that hour and a half threw those pieces in the yard before the SRT team was contacted.

1:06:13 This also explains why no reconstructionist could make it make sense, because they weren't in the right place, nor distributed properly, nor would a light explode like that. The only way that that could have happened is someone put those pieces there. But Proctor never imagined he would be questioned on this. He thought that he was just going to seal the deal. That's why he lied on the report time of getting the vehicle, and the other non affiliated cop said the light did not look anything like what the picture showed, because it would mean that he had time to plant the pieces unless he made the timeframe too close. Jen then calls Karen to quote unquote go over the timeline to make it make sense. She tells Carrie that Karen said I hit him. She tells Carrie that Karen asked her to google how long to die in the snow, which Carrie then later admitted she did not hear herself that Jen had reminded her. Jen is steadily texting the family in the group messages updating them about everything that's going on. Then the group of ladies go by Lank's house.

1:07:19 They stay for forty five minutes to go ahead and make sure they're sharing up all of the details. In law Brian Albert and ATF. Higgins both get rid of their cell phones conveniently, and then Jen deletes her messages and her search history within two days before her cell phone was seized. Chloe was then rehomed and the house was sold. That is what I think happened, Karen read then goes on trial again the second time, and realizing that Proctor is a total fuck up and that they're busted on what's going on. He doesn't even testify even though he is the lead investigator, and then Karen is found not guilty. Now one more time, y'all, I wasn't there whenever John died. I have no direct knowledge of any of this, but I am someone who watched thirty one days of testimony. I weighed the evidence myself, and I have come up with that conclusion myself. I could be wrong, but that's how I have interpreted everything from this case. Shitty policing, lying, and drunkenness is why John O'Keefe has been lost in all of this. If you've noticed, I have now spent hours telling you a story that two sides have fought about and how they're saying that each other is lying. But John, he's still dead. He is still gone. Everyone he devoted his time too and considered his quote unquote people in the end proved to be quite useless to him. His friends looked shady as hell,

1:08:53 police seemed unconcerned with finding the truth behind a brother in Blu's death, and his girlfriend was cheating on him. I don't know into how many more ways someone could be victimized, what else could have been done to him? All of these same people smiled in his face just minutes before he died. In whatever way it went down, they all should be ashamed in my opinion, all of them, And I do hope I know this has been a long series, but I do hope you will remember that John O'Keefe was real and that his life was ended in some way that we now will probably never know.

1:09:35 No one, I bet will ever be held accountable because it turned into a shit show, with John O'Keefe the victim being lost in all of it. Usually I give y'all a little snarky ending, but this time I'd rather give John the last word. I'll tell you I never knew him personally, but if he had something to say to all of these people that night, I bet it would sound a little something like this. If you're hearing this, congrats y'all outlived me. It must be nice, huh. One less person to ignore, to betray, or to emotionally drain.

1:10:18 To my so called friends, thanks for disappearing when things got real. You mastered ghosting like it was a damn Olympic sport. To my coworkers, your backstabbing and fake smiles were almost impressive. If mediocrity and manipulation ever needed a mascot, you'd all be in the running. And to my girlfriend, you were the cherry on top of this shit Sunday, you love bombed me you drained me and you called it passion. It's really cute. But don't worry, y'all. I'm not bitter. I'm just dead. And now, finally I don't have to carry the weight of people who treated me like a footnote in their story. You all got what you wanted, your freedom from having to pretend that you care.

1:11:04 So sleep easy. No more fixing what you broke, no more forgiving what you never apologized for. The snow that fell that night contributed to my death just as much as y'all did, and in the same fashion, when the sun came out, y'all both disappeared. If I had to choose between your friendship and the snow, I'd pick the snow. You know why, because at least it did what we all expected it to do.