Sept. 29, 2025

Serial Killer: John Jobert

Serial Killer: John Jobert
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Season 8

In this episode of Unspeakable: A True Crime Podcast by Kelly Jennings, KJ tells the horrific story of John Jobert, a serial killer who terrorized the states of Nebraska and Maine in the early 1980’s.

Timestamps
14:17 The Search Begins
19:51 Discovery of Danny's Body
24:00 The Autopsy Report
29:35 Community's Response
34:02 The Second Abduction
41:21 Christopher's Disappearance
49:46 Investigative Challenges
1:00:37 Suspect Identification
1:03:11 John Jobert Arrest
1:10:51 Cliffhanger

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell

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stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are

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so shocking that many are left wondering how is this

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even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections,

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and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator,

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dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so

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evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended

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for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm

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not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, kJ,

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You're back with another's sod of Unspeakable. And I'm really

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getting excited because our fall Fest in Denim Springs, Louisiana

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is coming up. It's going to be Saturday, October fourth,

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from nine to four thirty, and I will be there.

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I know, keep telling you all that, but I'll have merch,

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I'll have shirts, some new designs too. I'll be signing

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whatever you want, and I'll take pictures whatever you want

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to do. I'll be there. It's just me, So if

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you're going to be there, please swing by and come

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check out the booth. I'll be in the middle of

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the main I guess you'd call action Ali. Just look

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for me. I'll be there, okay. And just so you

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know too, a lot of people are messaging me. I

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get a lot of messages, and so Patreon is where

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I'm going to be doing a majority of my communic

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communication now so that I can keep up with everything

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in kind of one place. So, I mean, I'm still

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on Facebook and I'll talk in all that kind of jazz.

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But if you really really want to make sure that

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I see your messages, please send it to me through Patreon.

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There are free memberships there. You do not have to

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get a paid memberships. That's not what this is about.

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But you can also get a paid membership if you want.

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You can watch me py podcast, commercial free episodes, and

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some extras and are are all in there so you

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can go look at those tears and decide which one

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it works for you. Also, you can follow me on Facebook.

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I have an Unspeakable Facebook and I have a TikTok.

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I don't post a lot on there, but you can

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still follow me at Unspeakable kJ podcast. Now, before I

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get started, I got to address something. It's it's very

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important to me. Last week, whenever I released my episode,

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I did not catch it that whenever I was saying

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I was supposed to be saying Naitisia because that's her name,

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and a few times I accidentally said tiny Niche. I

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was caught up in the storytelling and transposed the words yeah.

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I'm sorry. That was an absolute inadvertent mistake. I would

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never do that on purpose, and when I'm talking, I

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don't quite always nunciate or pronounce things correctly. But that's

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my bad, and I will do better, and I want

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you to know I do recognize it, but I had

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already recorded and it was already scheduled for release. But

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thank you so much to everybody for paying attention because

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victims' names should be said correctly time. So please accept

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my apology, and I hope that you can love me

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through it all. Right now, I have some shout outs

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too that I want to give, and today we're going

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to be right here in Jennim Springs with miss Holly Myers. Hey, Holly,

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I have you right here on my list, and I

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know who exactly who you are because I taught you

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when you were a young teen, mister Jim Constant. Now

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you have been a fan or a listener for a

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long time, and I was surprised when I saw your

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name because I said, wait minute, I know him over

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there in Julie, Florida. So hey, mister Jim, I'm waving

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to you. Thank you so much. And then Will and

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I believe it's Huber or is it Huber? Will Huber?

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I think that might be it. But how are you Will?

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Over there? Right in my neck of the woods, Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

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I'm so thankful to have all of y'all, and the

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men are coming in strong here joining this Patreon, so

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I'm really appreciative of that. So today's case. Look, some

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cases are so incredible no matter how much time passes,

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it still sticks with people. It's one of those cases.

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Someone messaged me and said, why do all podcasters sometimes

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go and do the same cases. Well, that's not what

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it is. It's that some cases are so profound that,

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as someone who is invested in true crime, these matter.

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These are big cases and they affect people widely, and

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so it's not that we're all doing the same cases.

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It's that these are the cases and they are just incredible.

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So my friends and listeners in Nebraska can attest to

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this statement. When I bring you to Bellevue, Nebraska, and

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this is going to be in the early morning hours

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of Sunday, September eighteenth, nineteen eighty three, and the radio

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was often bumping the biggest hit of the year from

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Flash Dances Show, and the song was Maniac. She's a

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Maniac Maniac. We know that song right well. To be

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thirteen years old at this point, was right old enough

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to make a few bucks, but still a kid. And

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this was the reality for thirteen year old Danny Joe

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every Now he had gotten himself a paper boy route

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for the world Harold and very, very responsible was this kid.

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He was a go getter. He set goals for himself

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and he would hit those goals, which was really nice

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for a kid of this age. And a prime example

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I can give you is that Danny had his eye

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on this prized bike that he wanted, and he wanted

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it so bad, but he was told by his parents,

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you have to earn it. If you want to make

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some money, then you can go get exactly what you want,

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but you will earn that money. And he did just

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that by talking to his parents, making a plan and saying,

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I'd like to take on a paper route, and they

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said yes, you can do that. I'm proud of you.

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This is an awesome step for you to take. So

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with their blessing, he got the job and he was

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off to make that cold hard cash and he wanted

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to get that bike, which he eventually did. Hell yeah,

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I remember my first little BMX bike that I got.

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Now I got it for Christmas. But he earned his.

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But what a cool feeling when you're young and it's

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yours and you made the money to earn it. So

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he was your average thirteen year old in no doubt

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right in a lot of ways, but his level of

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responsibility was something to be commended. And he was one time.

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He was a kid that was always ready to work

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and he was very dependable, and what a great thing

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to be known for. He was tough and he was

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a go getter type of kid. Now, look, Danny was

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a handsome and I will use the term all American

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boy because it is if you look at him, all

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American boy. He was originally born in Bangkok, Thailand, which

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I thought was really cool. But he's a handsome fella.

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He's got light brown hair and he was entering that

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age where you hit the growth spurt and you're hit

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their faces start to kind of thin out, they lose

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that baby fat that they've carried for so long, and

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he's looking much more teen like young young teen, but

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he's starting to look more like a teenager athletic kid,

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and he looks like he's just a cool guy. That's

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what Danny was. And he was one of five children,

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which tells me that he probably had some pretty good

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get along skills with other people. You know, you have

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all these siblings, you learn how to share and you

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learn how to mitigate issues. And so his parents were

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very proud of him, and it was a kind of

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sweet thing that he was delivering these newspapers because his

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own dad was a mail carrier at one point, and

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so it was almost like he was helping to carry

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the torch of news like his old pops had done

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in times gone by. So I mean, honestly, his dad

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probably was delivering bills and things that weren't that great,

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but you get the point. Like father, like son, he

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was going to deliver that those papers for people in

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their early in the early mornings, and so as such,

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he had plans on the early morning of September eighteenth

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to meet his supervisor behind the nearby dairy queen. And

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this is kind of funny, and I don't know why

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it tickled me, but Danny had a quirk about him

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that he loved to be barefoot. He loved to be

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barefoot so much that he left the house with no

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shoes on to go do a paper route on a bicycle.

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And I don't know, what a what a boy, what

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a little man right there? You know, Hell, I don't

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need my shoes to be I like to rough at barefoot.

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So they would meet there, he and a supervisor behind

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that dairy queen, and they were gonna exchange papers for

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him to go then distribute. Now, Danny had parents that

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loved him, and they were very careful about their son.

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They told him, you've got to be careful. There is

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risk in everything that you do. But we're gonna you know,

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you can deliver the morning paper on a Sunday. It's

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it's quite easy, like Sunday morning. You just out there

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very very early. But there's always risk in anything that

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you do. And just recently, another young newspaper boy, his

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name was Johnny Gosh, he had just gone missing. And

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so Johnny's picture was one that actually was one of

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the very first ones that was featured on milk cartons

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back whenever they were doing the milk carton campaign for

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missing children. That little boy, Johnny was one of the

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first kids that was featured on these milk cartons. And so,

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you know, don't talk to strangers, don't go where you're

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not supposed to be, just deliver the paper, YadA, YadA, YadA.

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And so he knew this. He said, yes, sir, yes ma'am,

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and he was going to do the right thing. So

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he was given seventy newspapers whenever they met up, but

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he was also given inserts for each of these newspapers,

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and it was kind of aggravating, I guess, because they

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weren't the inserts weren't already in the newspapers. So he's

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given this stack of seventy and then another stack of inserts,

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and Danny would have to manually place each insert into

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each paper before he could go do his route. And

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he was like, dang, man, it's nineteen eighty three. There's

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not an easier way for this to be done. I

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have to manually do it. I'm sure that's what he

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was thinking. But Danny sat down and started stuffing those

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papers and he completed the task, he then picked him

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all up, put him in his bike bag, which was

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kind of on his handlebars. He got it all situated

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and then stood up, threw that leg over, pressed down

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on that pedal, and he was off for the ride

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down the road to start throwing those papers down into

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the driveways. And his ride took him southward and it

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was down what was called Madison Avenue, and that's where

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he started tossing out the papers like normal. The breeze

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was cool, and that early morning time was a little slow.

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It was just a nice bike ride and it was

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a quiet, slow morning. The third house on his route

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was that of doctor Joseph Troya. Now Doctor Troya was

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a church going man, and he left out early that

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morning to head to church. And he saw Danny's bike

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leaning against his fence full of newspapers in that handlebar satchel.

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So he was still really early on his bike route,

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so the bag was still full up, so doctor Troyo

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would have to just read his newspaper when he got

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back from church because he was leaving. So when the

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services ended and he and his family waved goodbye and

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then they headed back to the house, for some Sunday relaxation.

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He was really surprised when he pulled up and Danny's

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bike was still leaning against the fence hours later, and

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it still had newspapers in it. He noticed this as

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he kind of pulled into his driveway and parked. So

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it was odd for sure. And doctor troya knew who

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Danny was. He would never leave that bike. That was

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not something that he was gonna do. Doctor Troy he

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was a father himself, and so he really became concerned

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whenever he saw that. So he told his son Joe,

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he said, look, go go grab his bike for me.

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Place it inside of our fence, because I don't want

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another kid to ride off on his bike or the

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bike to get stolen. So go move the bike for him.

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Dany'll probably come back and get it whenever whatever happens.

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But Danny never came back for the bike. And it

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00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:23.039
turns out that Danny should have been done with his

225
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.399
paper route by eight am, like that's how early he started.

226
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.279
He should have been done by eight am, but he

227
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:36.120
didn't return home by eight point fifteen am. Danny's dad,

228
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.639
his name was Leonard, He came knocking on the doctor's

229
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:44.039
door looking for his son. The reason he stopped at

230
00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.200
that house was because he saw the bike that was

231
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.200
put in the yard for safe keeping. So when mister

232
00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:52.879
Leonard saw his son's bike, he's like, whoo, what a

233
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.120
relief right there? He is His dad was worried something

234
00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.480
may have happened to him, but that knucklehead was probably

235
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:00.840
you know, bumping his gums and lost track of time

236
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:04.360
and talking to mister troya But when doctor Troy opened

237
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:09.679
the door, mister Leonard's fears were realized because the doctor

238
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.559
told him I never saw Danny. I just saw his bike.

239
00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.320
And so they started talking about what was going on,

240
00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.759
and the hair on the back of Leonard's you know,

241
00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.000
next stood up, what do you mean it's been hours

242
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.799
And the Doctor's like, I don't know. I don't know

243
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:29.440
why he left the bike here. So, realizing this very quickly,

244
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.440
Dad took off to go to the police station because

245
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.240
his son was not one to do this, so he

246
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.919
made a report and when it was all said and done,

247
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.039
kidnapping was believed to have been what occurred here. So

248
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:48.240
they believed this because they also had scoured the neighborhood

249
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.440
looking for him. They had spoken to friends, you know,

250
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.240
did all sorts of things looking for him, and they

251
00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:57.279
couldn't find him. Now assessing the situation, Danny had only

252
00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:01.440
made three of his seventy delivery and he had been

253
00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.159
gone now for hours that we knew something was wrong here, right,

254
00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:10.519
So foul play was considered here because he was nowhere

255
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.360
to be found. They even checked hospitals. Maybe he got

256
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.080
hit by a car, who knows, and someone picked the

257
00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.440
bike up for him, but that was just not the case.

258
00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:21.159
So local police decided they were going to need additional

259
00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.960
help here, and they very quickly reached out to the FBI.

260
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.120
Now why would they jump so quickly to the FBI, Well,

261
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:30.559
it's kind of cool. Historically, I wanted to tell you something.

262
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.159
This was when President Reagan he had just recently added

263
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.399
kidnapping of children as well as murder, but kidnapping of

264
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.399
children to be under federal jurisdiction, and so the FBI

265
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.679
was to be involved in this type of case. So

266
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.279
Agent Pat Thomas he was actually this is later on

267
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.399
in the day, but he was coaching little league when

268
00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.960
he got the call for help. He obviously liked kids,

269
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:58.159
and so you know, he's coaching little ones. So he

270
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:00.840
says all right, I'm on my way. I'm on the case.

271
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.600
He jumped right in his car and jumped on this

272
00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.919
this case immediately, and he started with the obvious. All right,

273
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.000
let's canvass the area and let's see who saw what, when,

274
00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.440
we're why and how. They also spoke to all of

275
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:17.639
Danny's little friends. They spoke to known relatives anywhere that

276
00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.080
he might have gone or been, and they even got

277
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.559
the local kids involved, which I thought was kind of

278
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:26.159
cool to an extent. Okay, they didn't tell him everything,

279
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.279
but they said, look, where are y'all's hideouts. Do y'all

280
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.879
have forts? Is there a treehouse that everybody likes to

281
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.360
hang out in? Or is there somewhere we as adults

282
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.679
would not know that y'all liked to go hang out.

283
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:42.440
And they checked everywhere, and they checked all throughout the night.

284
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:49.480
They spent fifteen hours straight looking for Danny. They searched fields,

285
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:53.360
they searched anywhere, and I want to really impress upon

286
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.799
that this was not a half assed search. They were

287
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:59.039
looking and looking hard for him, and his little friends

288
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:04.679
were even helping. But nothing absolutely radio silent on Danny. So,

289
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.840
as I've already stated, this boy was responsible. He would

290
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.480
never have blown off his paper route and that bike

291
00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:17.080
man that was his prized possession. He's not leaving it.

292
00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:20.840
It just wouldn't happen. So as day broke the following morning,

293
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.960
obviously the media was getting wind of the situation and

294
00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:28.879
they became involved, asking the public for help. And these

295
00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.639
are the days of quickly rolling out posters, print outs,

296
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.440
anything that they could remember. These are the days before

297
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:39.960
social media, right, and so crime stoppers they set up

298
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.720
a response team and they just infiltrated this community. Everybody,

299
00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.240
please stop what you're doing and help and look for him.

300
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.759
But one day turned into two, and then two days

301
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:57.360
turned into three, and there was no sightings, no word, nothing,

302
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:02.440
And this horrible waiting game for this family is basically

303
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:07.720
what was taking place. Minutes felt like hours, and days

304
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.680
now felt like years. Where can my son be? Who

305
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.519
would take him? Did somebody actually take him? Of course

306
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:18.440
they did. They had to have all these thoughts going

307
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.359
through this mother's mind and this father's mind. Was he hurt?

308
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.559
Was he being fed? Was he being cared for? You know,

309
00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:31.279
the feeling of just helplessness made them just suffocate under

310
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:34.440
the weight, you know of everyone that loved him was suffocating,

311
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:38.079
they couldn't come up for air. Where is he Well?

312
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.160
On the third day that he was missing, an additional

313
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:46.480
massive search was set up again, tons of people involved,

314
00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:50.119
and I think it's really cool as a community. I

315
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.799
remember recently we had a little boy go missing really

316
00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:55.960
close to my house, and he was from an area

317
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.160
that's not an affluent area. It's a very low, low income,

318
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:06.079
high crime area. But something in me, as a mother,

319
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.079
as a human being, it just I couldn't go home

320
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.400
and just say, God, that kid's missing. It just tugged

321
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.559
at me horribly, and so I wanted to also teach

322
00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:18.640
my own kids that we always were helpers, and so

323
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.759
we loaded up in the car. I drove to the

324
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.119
area where the kid was missing from. There was police

325
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.480
set up, and said, Hey, where can I go? Can

326
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:27.599
I help search? And they were like, you know, they're

327
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.880
not gonna give me much information, but they're like, yo,

328
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.359
I mean, anything's great. So my kids and I spent

329
00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.400
probably an hour and a half two hours just slowly

330
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.200
driving through the roads and everything in the area, just

331
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.200
looking for the little fella. And my heart was breaking

332
00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.400
that he was gone. But it's kind of a funny

333
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.920
story at the end, of that one, they did find him.

334
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.839
He was actually underneath a trailer house like on his street,

335
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.880
So heavy end ink on that one. But when you

336
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.839
don't know, anybody who has a heart would want to help,

337
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.880
That's what is happening here. So they're three days in,

338
00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.319
lots of people are out looking and a perimeter was

339
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.200
determined by police and then they kind of set up

340
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.400
a grid to search from everybody spread out over this grid.

341
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.599
But on this third day the search would not take long.

342
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.519
Matter of fact, only thirty minutes in the search was

343
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.279
called off. So searchers had spread out across a highway

344
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.319
and it had ditches on either side, and they were

345
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.359
just walking step for step along. You know, I'm gonna say,

346
00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.519
arm's length out, but how are they the grid? And

347
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.480
they're just walking step for step looking in this grass.

348
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:41.160
And thirty minutes in, a deputy located Danny's body laying

349
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.319
there in the open, and he yelled out the code

350
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.759
I found the package. That was the code that they

351
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:52.799
would use to tell everybody I've got him. And so

352
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.400
this search team of over one hundred and thirty men

353
00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.920
and women just felt the air sucked out of the

354
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:05.079
lungs because Danny was not alive. Danny was dead. His

355
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:10.720
condition was one so bad that the officer who found

356
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.799
him became emotional in the moment and literally had to

357
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:18.720
step away to compose himself. Because when it comes to kids,

358
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.759
it may be your child, but it's our kid. Does

359
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:27.839
that make sense? Like you have to love everyone in

360
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:32.400
your community on that level, and especially a kid, because

361
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.799
now this is an offense not only against his family

362
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.680
whatever has happened here, but it should make everybody upset.

363
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.960
And police are no different. You come up, you don't

364
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.960
want to see a kid in the condition that Danny

365
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.799
was in. He was stripped of all of his clothing

366
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:51.880
except for his black boxers. He was tied up with rope,

367
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.519
and I wanted to know what did it mean to

368
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.440
be tied up? Like? Were his wrists in front of

369
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.240
him and he'd had rope around his wrists. I saw

370
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:04.160
the crime scene photo of this, and I'm going to

371
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.240
tell you he was hogtied. If you know what that is,

372
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.799
that's what we would commonly call it hogtide. His arms

373
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:16.000
were tied behind his back together and his feet his

374
00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:21.319
ankles were tied together like and bent back behind him.

375
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.960
No wonder this man was so upset with what he saw.

376
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:32.000
The child had certainly suffered brutality beyond anything that it

377
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:37.759
would have taken to kill this kid, absolute overkill and

378
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.279
just from what could have been assessed right there on site.

379
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.039
His body was determined by detectives to have been moved

380
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:50.960
from the original murder site because there were pebble impressions

381
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.559
in his skin, but where he lay there was no

382
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:57.920
gravel at all, so this had to be a secondary

383
00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.240
dump sight. Now, the official cause of death for little

384
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.640
Danny would have to be declared at autopsy, but no

385
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:09.319
matter what on scene, there was no question that this

386
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:14.839
was a brutal homicide of a child. The coroner came

387
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.440
and collected the body, and now it was time to

388
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:23.799
break the news to the family. Now, the family basically

389
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.359
all knew before the words even came out of their mouth.

390
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.640
If if you know what I'm saying, The looks on

391
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:34.599
their faces, the demeanor, everything told them what they needed

392
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:37.359
to know before the words were even said. And Danny,

393
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.759
like I told you, he had multiple siblings. All of

394
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.079
those kids had to go be collected from school, taken

395
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.559
out of class, and then driven by their parents, who

396
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:48.799
I'm sure their hearts were beating out of their chest.

397
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.240
They probably wanted to vomit and couldn't think straight. To

398
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.440
save their lives, they brought them all up into the

399
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.680
police station and then that's when the news was broken

400
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:03.480
to them their son and their brother had been murdered.

401
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.599
So now left to explain this to Danny's young siblings

402
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.400
because they all were younger kids. The family tried their

403
00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:17.680
best to hold it together. But this is a loss

404
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.440
that nobody nobody, I don't care who you are, nobody

405
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.279
wants this type of loss in their life. I don't

406
00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:29.640
ever want to be a part of that club. I

407
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.079
remember my mother in law told me one time my

408
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.720
brother in law was killed, and one time she told me.

409
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.559
We were sitting there and she said, you know some

410
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:43.599
clubs it's okay to not be a member of. And

411
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.359
I'll never forget that because she's so right. I don't

412
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:50.079
want to be a part of that club. So to

413
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:54.680
answer the unknowns that his mother and father and family

414
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.720
members had been aching over for the last few days,

415
00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:01.599
those questions of was he in pain, was he scared? Well?

416
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:08.519
The pathologists report, unfortunately would not help his parents or

417
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:13.039
anybody sleep better at night, because the findings were that

418
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.519
her child, her baby boy, had been stabbed to death.

419
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.400
When his body was recovered, I told you his hands

420
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.759
and his feet were bound behind his back. So this

421
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:30.799
meant that Danny virtually had no way of fighting back none.

422
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.839
He was tied back vital organs, you know, pressed forward

423
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:37.480
for whomever wanted to do whatever they wanted to do

424
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.880
to this kid. And he also couldn't yell out because

425
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:45.359
his mouth was taped shut with this thick surgical tape.

426
00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.279
And when that tape was removed, the doctor noted that

427
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:54.079
there was a pebble stuck either in Danny's mouth or

428
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.640
on the stuck to the sticky side of the tape

429
00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.119
into his lips, if you're getting the picture of what

430
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.400
I'm saying. So during that autopsy, it's doctor Blaine Roffman

431
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:08.759
who did this. He would locate a total of eleven

432
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:14.000
stab wounds to this child. Eight of those wounds were

433
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:20.880
absolute penetrating stabbing wounds to his body. Three of them

434
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:27.279
were less deep and more like little punctures to him,

435
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.960
not the full throttle stabs. One of them was to

436
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:37.279
the back of his neck now on the back of

437
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.079
one of his legs. It was as left thigh. He

438
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.599
had a gaping wound. Gaping meaning wide open, not a

439
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:50.000
slice wide open, and it covered the full length of

440
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:55.079
the back of his left thigh. It was eleven inches wide.

441
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.720
So I want you to understand what I'm saying. The

442
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:00.759
child was cut basically from under his buttocks down to

443
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.000
the bend of the back of his knee, but it

444
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.079
was eleven inches wide, almost a foot wide. This wound

445
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:12.400
was so basically his flesh had been cut away clear

446
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:18.160
to the bone behind his leg. But most important to

447
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.200
note here was that nine of the eleven wounds were

448
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:29.720
inflicted before death. This is absolutely what was stated in

449
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:36.440
the autopsy. Young Danny felt each and every one for

450
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:42.680
certain of nine of those stab wounds. Doctor Roffman was

451
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:47.519
also very clear that Danny's death was not instantaneous, and

452
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.319
it was not quick. It's a mother's and a father's

453
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.079
worst nightmare. It's bad enough he's gone. But now you're

454
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.240
thinking through your head, maybe it was quick, Maybe he didn't. No,

455
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:04.160
maybe he would. No. I'm sorry, that's just not the case.

456
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:11.480
Your child suffered, and he suffered immensely. Danny also had

457
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.279
received at least one traumatic blow to his head because

458
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.200
there was hemorrhaging to the top of his skull. His

459
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.640
throat had been slashed, and there were teeth marks from

460
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:28.359
his assailant visible, so at some point whoever had killed

461
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:32.079
him had bitten him during the attack. I mean, this

462
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:38.319
is an animalistic type of just almost psychopathy, you know,

463
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.720
psychotic what happened to this kid? And overall, Doctor Roffman

464
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:46.480
noted that Danny was aware of the circumstances happening to him,

465
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.200
and he suffered quote undue pain and suffering. Now, I

466
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.559
know what I'm telling you is heavy. I know it's

467
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:57.559
a lot, but this is where my passion comes in.

468
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.480
Because things come across the news and they go a

469
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.079
child was murdered, and we're like, oh, that's horrible, Oh

470
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:06.640
my god, that is horrible. But when you get down

471
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:11.319
to the nitty gritty of what actually happened, the reality

472
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:16.039
of what happened, it should just evoke a fire under

473
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:20.000
your ass that this is not just a kid was murdered.

474
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:24.079
This is way more than that will ever be and

475
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.319
it's hurtful and it makes us sick, and it should

476
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.160
and it should be reflected in our justice system. Please

477
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.119
remember that it's never as simple as oh, someone was murdered.

478
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:38.240
Oh someone was raped, oh, somebody was whatever, It's never

479
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:44.720
that simple. It was Danny's own father who was the

480
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.440
one who had to go positively id him at the morgue.

481
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.279
And in that condition. We don't think about these things,

482
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.519
do we. We don't think about these small things that

483
00:28:54.880 --> 00:29:00.000
are actually the big things. The ripple effect of damage

484
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.680
that is done. The identification of a child has to

485
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.880
be made, and to see your baby boy in that

486
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.400
condition is not natural. It's not something a parent should

487
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:15.000
ever have to do. Yet someone had to go go

488
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.359
do it and then look at their boy laying there

489
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:23.759
and the realization that someone out there walking the streets

490
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:32.319
right now willingly did this to my baby. So police

491
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:33.960
now had a job to do, and it was to

492
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.559
find out who did it. But leads were slim to none,

493
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.279
which is never good. The pebble that was in the

494
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:48.759
tape became a great source of focus for the police

495
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.079
in that moment because they thought, Okay, if we can

496
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:54.319
locate maybe where this pebble originated from, the type of

497
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.839
rock or wherever it may have originated from, then this

498
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.839
could bring us leads. It could give us a location.

499
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:00.480
Then that could give us, okay, who was in this

500
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.000
area and who frequents here, and la la la la la.

501
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.559
So police worked hard. They put a ton of effort

502
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:10.319
into figuring out where a pebble came from, and they

503
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.720
really got energized because they finally believed that they had

504
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.000
found where that pebble originated from. But that's when a

505
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:23.279
huge blow came to their case. Because y'all, as people,

506
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:28.319
as humans, we make mistakes, and nobody does it on purpose.

507
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.880
And this is a very serious, very serious situation, but

508
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:35.240
it doesn't mean mistakes don't happen. And a big mistake

509
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:40.119
had been made because it came to the medical examiner's

510
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:43.440
attention that he actually had made an error in his

511
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:49.039
report when he was doing his reports, he had confused

512
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.640
two cases that he worked that day and he documented

513
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.319
the pebble on the wrong case that rock was not

514
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.799
actually or that pebble was not actually from Danny's case.

515
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.480
And so it was wasted time. It was sucking the

516
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:08.039
wind out of the sales of the police. Now like,

517
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:10.559
oh my god, now everything we were trying to work

518
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.759
towards has been for not But they had to go

519
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:17.839
back to the drawing board. Now something beautiful, if I

520
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.559
can say this, and kudos to that community is. Do

521
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.240
you know they took it upon themselves to fly flags

522
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:30.400
at half staff for that family and for that child.

523
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:35.599
The community was so hurt by this, and y'all, half

524
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:39.640
staff is usually for dignitaries or for you know, things

525
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.440
of that nature or something. But to get this honor

526
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:48.599
without request from your community, to acknowledge that your child

527
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.160
meant that much to us that we will lower our

528
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:56.240
national flag to half staff for him, it's simply to

529
00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.200
me overwhelming, because I believe in the power of our

530
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.920
flag and to know that they thought that much of

531
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:05.720
this child is beautiful and those people should be commended

532
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.680
for I think for the symbolism in that. Now it

533
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.000
was nineteen eighty three, so this number may not seem big,

534
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.880
but a twenty three thousand dollars reward was built and

535
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.200
offered for tips that might lead to the arrest of

536
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.079
someone involved in this, and so obviously money comes up.

537
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:27.519
Tips start rolling in, and this included people calling in

538
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.559
about a green van. So I call this the green

539
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.039
van leads. Okay, So the police spent a lot of

540
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.400
time going through records and figuring out where the green

541
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.279
vans were and who who drove a green van. All

542
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.000
of that was time wasted. There was no green Van

543
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:49.640
to do with any of this. So now forensically came

544
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.799
more hope again nineteen eighty three. Please don't put us

545
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.920
to twenty twenty five standards. But the rope became a

546
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.839
main piece of evidence because it was the makeup of

547
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:03.079
the rope that was very odd. It had lots of

548
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.920
plastic fibers within it, but it also had some like

549
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.119
green and yellow and I think red yarn type stuff

550
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.759
twisted up in it. Now, I am not a rope

551
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.319
expert nor a rope manufacturer, so please don't come at me,

552
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:18.240
but I can tell you that the way it was

553
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:25.400
made was very strange, and so it was so unique

554
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:28.279
and so different that police couldn't even figure out a

555
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.200
manufacturer for it. They couldn't even find anybody that sold

556
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:36.319
this rope, literally nobody, nobody, and so if they couldn't

557
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.640
determine where the rope came from, that's not good. However,

558
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.279
on the flip side, because the rope was so difficult

559
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.799
and they couldn't identify the manufacturer, it would also be

560
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:49.680
very damning if they were able to find the remainder

561
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.279
of the rope in somebody's possession because it was so unique.

562
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.400
So police believed whoever did this number one enjoyed it.

563
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:04.279
This was for pleasure, it was purposeful. And the problem

564
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:07.440
they realized quickly was that this was someone who would

565
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:13.719
absolutely do this again, and unfortunately the police were correct.

566
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:18.079
So it was December second, roughly eleven weeks after Danny

567
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.880
was murdered, and kids in the early morning hours were

568
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.559
heading off to school trying to maintain some type of

569
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:31.039
normalcy in comparison to the shocking recent history. So routine

570
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.079
is always good whenever there's a disruption in your life

571
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.800
or a disruption in the community, trying to get on

572
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.519
a back on routine. That's a good thing for kids

573
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.519
getting back on track. So it was really chilly on

574
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:46.280
this Friday morning, and twelve year old Christopher Walden was

575
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.360
making his way to school on foot. Now, Christopher was

576
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:56.079
an only child and his parents were absolutely crazy about him,

577
00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.079
as you can imagine, he was a sixth grade or two,

578
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:05.800
a absolutely frickin precious kid. He has dirty blonde hair,

579
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:11.280
he's got these little little almond eyes, toothy grin with

580
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:14.039
a mix of his adult and his child teeth. You know,

581
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.519
when their little teeth are coming in. Cool little guy, y'all,

582
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:19.960
cool fella, hands down, I can tell you right now,

583
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.800
cool dude. And so the school was close to where

584
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.000
they lived, but regardless, his mama usually drove him to school.

585
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:31.639
That was what they did. But today, on this morning,

586
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.639
was really nice outside. It was cool, and it was

587
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.239
it was the sun was shining, and it was just

588
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.119
like a really nice day, and he wanted to walk

589
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:42.119
to school. And his mom said, all right, I'll let

590
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:44.800
you walk, it's nice outside, but get where you're going

591
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.480
and i'll see this afternoon. I love you. That would

592
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:55.679
be the most regretted decision of his mother's life because

593
00:35:56.119 --> 00:36:02.039
that afternoon, Christopher never returned from school that day. Matter

594
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.400
of fact, he had never even made it to school.

595
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.679
But this was nineteen eighty three and the rules were different.

596
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:13.280
And so I want to tell you this so we

597
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:16.519
can think about these types of things, because the schools

598
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.880
operated much different than than they do in twenty twenty five.

599
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:22.679
If kids didn't show up to school, it was kind

600
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.360
of like, oh, well, the kid didn't come to school,

601
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.000
it's not the school's problem. Can you imagine that today?

602
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.079
Because y'all, my kids like check in tarty. If my

603
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.000
teenager is tarty to school. I get an immediate notification

604
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.480
on my phone boo boo boo tardiness. I mean, hell,

605
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:41.159
I even get emails now when she uses a bathroom pass.

606
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:43.559
That's how on top of it they are of notifying

607
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.639
the parents that their kid, you know, isn't at school

608
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.519
or is late or whatever. But this is nineteen eighty three.

609
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.800
It's not the case. And the very story I am

610
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:58.519
telling you right now paved the way for the safety

611
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.559
features that are now in grained in schools in terms

612
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:07.159
of attendance, and as parents, I think that we should

613
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:13.159
recognize that we have all benefited, unfortunately, but what an

614
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.519
amazing benefit this story will have to our very lives

615
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:23.119
the people listening to this today, because he was gone

616
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:28.079
all day and his parents never knew that he was

617
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:32.679
gone all day long. That is scary as hell to me. Scary,

618
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.039
and I know I input my own life into this,

619
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:37.199
but I think that's how I relate to stories. I

620
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.000
remember going to work one time and I was a

621
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.000
school teacher and I was teaching along. It was nine

622
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.000
thirty in the morning, and I got an alert on

623
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.880
my phone that said my child never arrived at school.

624
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.440
I knew she arrived at school because I put her

625
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:52.519
in the car with my husband, and I watched my

626
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:56.039
husband drive off to school. So I was like, oh,

627
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.199
they must have had attendants wrong. So I called the

628
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.360
school and I was like, hey, my daughter is marked absent,

629
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.719
but she's here. And there was kind of a pause

630
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:07.039
on the phone and she said, no, ma'am, she's not here,

631
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.559
and I said, yes, she is, so she said hold

632
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.599
on a second. She called down to the classroom. The

633
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.000
teacher said, oh, no, she wasn't here this morning. My

634
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:19.719
heart dropped into my butthole. I did not stop. I

635
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.000
didn't talk to anybody. I didn't say anything. I started

636
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.199
running to my car with my purse because I had

637
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.280
to go find my child. My child was missing. Someone

638
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:29.719
must have taken her. I mean, I was sick and

639
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.639
I was shaking. I made it to the road. I

640
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.480
took a rite on Floorida boulevard. I called my husband,

641
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:37.840
Oh my god, she's not at school, blah blah blah.

642
00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:39.239
He's like, wait, wait, wait, wait what. I was like,

643
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:41.440
she's not at school. I mean, I was about to

644
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:43.480
have a meltdown. And he's like, I know, I know.

645
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:44.920
I said, what do you mean you know? He said,

646
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.480
we went in through the drop offline. She threw up

647
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.519
in the car, so I just pulled back out and

648
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:57.079
I brought her back home. Well, damn, you know, I

649
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:01.679
wish I knew that, But what if he had dropped

650
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.440
her off, I would not have known that she was

651
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.920
not at school. So all of this to say that

652
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.840
when Christopher never returned home, obviously alarm bells were ringing

653
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.239
for his parents, but they had no idea he'd been

654
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.039
gone all day long, all these hours unaccounted for because

655
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:23.320
the school didn't call. So based on the child that

656
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:27.519
he was, this was definitely not a runaway situation. Police

657
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.599
were like, oh my god, we have another abduction. But

658
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:36.280
this doesn't happen to us. This happens to other people, right, no, no, no, no, no,

659
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.679
this doesn't happen to us. This is other people. How

660
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:40.880
often do we think this way when the reality is

661
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.199
it does happen to us, It does. It happens to everybody.

662
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:46.079
It happens to all of us, but we just don't

663
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:50.480
want it to be us. But Christopher, throughout a search

664
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:55.280
for him, wasn't found, and so now his parents started

665
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:59.519
to tread that very deep and dark path. So many

666
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:03.960
others have unfortunately gone down when children go missing, and

667
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:05.840
they decided that they were going to appeal to the

668
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.159
media and put out pleased for whoever has in police

669
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:11.679
return him to us, no questions asked, We don't care.

670
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.039
We'll give you whatever you want. So they held a

671
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:18.920
press conference. His father, Steven, begged for his safe return,

672
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.719
and this ended up being a good thing because having

673
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.199
that press conference would bring about a crucial lead in

674
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:28.480
the case. There was a woman, her name was Cheryl Bumgardner,

675
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:32.119
and she called in and said, I think I might

676
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:34.800
have seen his abduction, but I didn't know it was

677
00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:37.719
an abduction at the time, and so police say, all right,

678
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:42.519
tell us what's up. She said, I literally saw a

679
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:47.719
man with a child that it matches Christopher's description. And

680
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.840
I was driving down the road. I saw the man.

681
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:54.480
He had the boy by his arm, but I thought

682
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.039
that it was a parent like scolding his child for

683
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.760
acting up, and I just drove by and I didn't

684
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:02.360
think of anything of it till I saw this on

685
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:06.920
the news. So taking all of this into account, police

686
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.440
were also told by Danny, the child that was murdered

687
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:16.000
by his brother, that a white man was seen kind

688
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.159
of driving around them a few days prior before his

689
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:22.559
brother was murdered. Danny was murdered, and he said it

690
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:24.679
was a white guy. He was in a tan car

691
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:27.119
and he was just kind of like driving around us.

692
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.559
And so police were trying to put all this together

693
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:32.840
and say, okay, a white guy in a tan car

694
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:37.119
looking at children. And then Danny was murdered. Now Christopher

695
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:41.199
is missing. Do we have something here? Well, almost like

696
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:45.079
deja vu. Three days later, after their police were made

697
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.480
over the media, a body would be recovered in a

698
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:52.199
remote area that wasn't likely for someone to be in

699
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.760
except for a pheasant hunter. So as this man was

700
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.079
returning from his hunt, it was around dusk, he stumbled

701
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:04.920
upon the nearly nude body of a young white male,

702
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.039
and the child appeared to have been stabbed to death.

703
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.599
His body was completely frozen in the snow, and his

704
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.400
booksack and his belongings were with him, but the child

705
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:25.280
only had on his underwear. So police show up. Oh

706
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:27.679
my god, here we go again, a kid in his underwear,

707
00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:31.079
dead in the snow, and they are assessing the situation,

708
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:33.840
and what they noticed at first was that there were

709
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:37.079
two sets of footprints that went up to where the

710
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:41.039
body was. But only one set of footprints that left,

711
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:45.519
so this gave them a vital thought on this. They

712
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.559
ruled out that there could be possible multiple offenders taking

713
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:54.239
these children because of the two you know, the steps

714
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:58.599
and the snow, only one left. And again the coroner

715
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.000
would show up, collect the ch child's body and take

716
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:06.920
it back for autopsy. Now he would confirm that this

717
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.840
child had also been stabbed to death, and the slice

718
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:18.920
to this child's neck was extremely savage. He would also

719
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:25.960
then clarify, and this is the body of Christopher. The

720
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:30.880
cut to Christopher's neck was so savage, he said the

721
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:38.519
child was nearly decapitated. And in addition to that, the

722
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:45.320
full length and breadth of Christopher's chest and abdomen, so

723
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.360
basically from his neck to his pubic bone, had an

724
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:55.400
image carved into his skin. And so the doctor wrote

725
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:58.920
in the report he believed it to be a large plant,

726
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.239
and he said it had a stick and it had

727
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.480
seven leaves. Okay, well, most commonly, if you look that up,

728
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.159
the plant that's going to be referred to is gonna

729
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:11.880
be the money tree. It symbolizes luck and wealth. But

730
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.960
I personally don't find whoever would carve an image all

731
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:19.559
down the chest and stomach of a child to likely

732
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:23.280
be in that lane of thinking in terms of symbolism. Okay,

733
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:27.159
so call me jaded, but I would think that it

734
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:31.400
would be more on point by acknowledging another seven leaf plant,

735
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.639
because seven leaves are very common in a marijuana plant.

736
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.920
I know there's also a five leaf and a nine leaf,

737
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.079
and oddly I know that, But I'm going to be

738
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:43.920
more along the lines that this person wasn't putting a

739
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.360
money tree on this child. He was carving a marijuana

740
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:51.159
leaf into the child's chest and stomach. So whoever murdered

741
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:57.199
Christopher carefully and deliberately took the time to carve a

742
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:04.119
weed leaf into the child's chest and stat stomach, it's depraved.

743
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:08.320
And if it doesn't show you the lack of care

744
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.239
for another human being, that you would think that that

745
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:17.239
was interesting to do. Wow. So police were now faced

746
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:24.000
with more questions in terms of the investigation because while

747
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:28.480
Danny and Christopher's murders were very similar, there were some

748
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:33.000
big differences too between the two of them. So, for example,

749
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:39.519
Christopher had not been hogtied like Danny was, Chris was

750
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:46.159
hidden better than Danny was, and so police also assessing

751
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:48.199
the situation and for what it was, They felt like

752
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:52.639
Christopher was killed much quicker after his abduction than Danny was. Now,

753
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:54.719
they didn't necessarily have anything to base that on, like

754
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:57.280
one hundred percent, but I think timelines and how long

755
00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:01.079
it took to find them and the state of the

756
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:02.679
body when it was found, that's why they kind of

757
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:06.199
thought that. So, if this was a serial killer, usually

758
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:09.599
you would expect them to operate in the same manner

759
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:13.320
and methods in their killings. To an extent, I don't

760
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.199
want to say signatures, but a lot of them hunt

761
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:19.320
and I hate using that word, but a lot of

762
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:23.280
them do their hunting kind of like it's their operation.

763
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:26.199
They have a way that they do it. So the

764
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:29.760
question now was were the killings related or were these

765
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:34.400
two horribly separate murders. But in reality both options are

766
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:39.280
equally as terrifying. We have one psycho slaughtering children or

767
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.280
do we have two psychos slaughtering one child each. I mean,

768
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:46.679
either way, we're not winning here. Another concern was that

769
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:52.400
the suspect or suspects possibly maybe making contact or have

770
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.840
already made contact with other children in the area, and

771
00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.079
maybe it just wasn't reported because Danny's brother saw this

772
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.960
guy supposedly kind of circling around and looking at the kids.

773
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:06.000
So now the police were very afraid and felt it

774
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:09.599
was their due diligence to warn the public. What they

775
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.119
warn parents of what is happening here. They've got to

776
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.079
stay alert, and so they put out these these media

777
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:19.760
blitzes and said, listen, children have got to travel in groups.

778
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:21.519
If they're going to be going to the bus stop,

779
00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:23.760
they've got to be in groups. Do not let your

780
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:28.079
children by themselves. This was happening in broad daylight, that

781
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:32.800
these abductions were taking place. That is so fucking bold.

782
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.239
You're dealing with an animal that is so bold to

783
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:44.440
snatch somebody in broad daylight where anybody could see you. Also,

784
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:48.000
something else to consider that I don't think that media

785
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:52.639
ever really considers, is that now we have kids going

786
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.480
to these schools and they're losing their classmates, like they're

787
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.159
being sniped. You come to school, Danny's gone. You go

788
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.320
to school, Christopher's gone. Who's next? Is it me? How

789
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:09.079
the freak are these kids gonna even focus seeing their

790
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:13.000
friends disappear? So they're trying to learn the whole time,

791
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.559
knowing that the basically they're being hunted, and hell, they

792
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.199
had to bring counselors in to try and kind of

793
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.119
calm the kids down and to ease their minds while

794
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:26.440
also being like, stay vigilant, stay in groups. It's difficult.

795
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.880
One woman's account that I saw said that she was

796
00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:33.320
a child when this occurred, and that they stopped getting

797
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.039
outdoor recess for a while. They didn't want to let

798
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.679
the kids out to play because what if someone was

799
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.320
out there watching. The far reaching implications for this type

800
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:46.079
of violence is so great and beyond I think what

801
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:51.679
the average person considers. But maintaining the integrity of the

802
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:55.800
investigation while also keeping the community abreast of the ongoing

803
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.000
issue is gonna be a fine line. It always is.

804
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:05.000
Because a communities demand answers. They demand it, of course

805
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:06.320
you do. You want to know who killed this child.

806
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.599
We want them off the streets. But the communities also

807
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:14.079
misunderstand that releasing too much information is going to give

808
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:19.239
the culprit advantages advantages they cannot have. Let me give you,

809
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:22.559
like a quick look at what I'm talking about. If

810
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:26.800
they think that we're onto them, they run. If they

811
00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:30.440
get more information about what we know, they can create

812
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:35.360
a solid alibi if they realize something that they may

813
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.440
that may tie them to the crime. They may dispose

814
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:42.000
of evidence that they don't even realize they have that

815
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.599
will link them to our case. It is detrimental to

816
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.400
a case to release too much. And so people who

817
00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:53.559
don't think in investigative terms, they sometimes don't realize the

818
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:58.679
long term implications of releasing information just to satisfy the

819
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.519
public's demands for just And this is a real issue

820
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:04.519
even today. This is something that's kind of like a

821
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.480
pet peeve of mine. And it's also why I love

822
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:12.199
podcasting cases specifically that have already gone to trial. Why

823
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.360
it's for your sake as well as mine. And it's

824
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:19.599
because I get all the details. I get the full story.

825
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.000
How often do you hear something happen and then when

826
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:23.920
it's all said and done, it wasn't quite what you

827
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:27.920
thought it was. Why. Because they're gonna keep things close

828
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:31.119
to their to their chest so that they don't give

829
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:37.119
anything away. And the things that show the full picture

830
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.840
of the depravity and the links that killers will go to.

831
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:44.119
All of that's gonna come out eventually, it will, but

832
00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:46.199
it's gonna just have to wait. And I don't know

833
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:49.840
if it's experience or or what. But I hate making

834
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.519
a full judgment on a case that's breaking news because

835
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.760
you really, y'all, we don't know. You just don't know.

836
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:59.360
Things also not considered, and I'm gonna I'll be briefing

837
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.719
this is that I have a lot of listeners who

838
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:06.559
like insights to the inner workings of law enforcement. But

839
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:12.800
people forget this thing. There's victims to these crimes. And

840
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.079
you're like, we don't forget there's a victim. Well, hear

841
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:20.719
me out in a well meant desire to tamp outrage

842
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.039
for something that has happened, a well meant desire. You're

843
00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:29.199
pissed someone's murdered children. People forget that all details aren't

844
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:33.679
always I'm gonna say, quote unquote, just details, especially when

845
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:37.199
you know the victim, when you are the victim, when

846
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.920
your family member is the victim. There are three main

847
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.000
things we have to remember here. Number One, you have

848
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.880
to protect the victim and their privacy. This is not entertainment.

849
00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:51.840
It is horrifying. Number Two, people do not realize witness

850
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:57.599
intimidation is real. It is one hundred percent real, and

851
00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:01.519
so these perpetrators, if they realize someone's working with the

852
00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:05.360
police or getting more information. They absolutely. Don't you ever

853
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.639
think for a second they won't go try to silence

854
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:12.320
their victim or their family. Don't think that for a second.

855
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:18.199
Watch the news today. They will silence people. And number three,

856
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:24.280
a case is always ongoing, even after the arrest. The

857
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:26.960
case doesn't stop. When there is an arrest. There may

858
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.360
be more suspects. Releasing more information gives them the upper hand.

859
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:35.079
And remember this, nothing is solid until a conviction. Nothing

860
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:39.599
So in the moment you want all the answers, but

861
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:43.920
the conviction is the goal, not just the arrest. We

862
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:46.760
don't want them to walk. I want to educate you

863
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:50.360
on that. Just as a community of friendly people who

864
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:52.960
want the best for people. Please never forget it's not

865
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:55.880
over until the gavel slams down at the conviction. And

866
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:58.760
we don't want to compromise that. But the sheriff in

867
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.199
this case did not hold his tongue and he was

868
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:04.719
speaking out and when I tell you, his chest was

869
00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:07.360
out and his eyes were on the camera rack when

870
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.039
he was speaking. I'm not kidding. This was an exact

871
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:13.320
quote that he said. He looked in the camera and

872
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:17.519
he was talking directly to the killer. If he's out

873
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:19.920
there somewhere, and he said, you need to do something.

874
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.599
You need to call a minister, you need to call

875
00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:27.320
a priest, or, you need to call me, and like

876
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.639
his eyebrow went up, like call me, check me, Like

877
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:33.880
you're going down, okay, But that's how sick this was.

878
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:36.119
He was trying to get the guy, you know, to

879
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:38.159
either turn yourself in or you need some kind of

880
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:41.679
holy water to hit you or something. So the police

881
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:44.719
tried any tactic they could to drum up leads. This

882
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:49.079
included using a hypnotist in combination with a sketch artist

883
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:53.239
to create a sketch of the possible suspects. So the

884
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.679
sketch where did they even get this from? Well, it

885
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:58.960
was based off of that woman who thought she saw

886
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:03.679
Danny be abducted, as well as roughly eight other witnesses

887
00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:08.280
who thought they may have seen the suspect around other

888
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.159
young males during the abduction time frames. So all of

889
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.199
these people were brought in and his sketch was created

890
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:18.360
after they were put under hypnosis, and basically what they

891
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:21.239
came up with was this profile. An eighteen to twenty

892
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:24.599
five year old male five foot eight, one hundred and

893
00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:28.480
sixty pounds, dark hair, brown eyes and olive skin. And

894
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:30.039
of course I'm going to post all this on Patreon

895
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:33.679
four you so that you can check it out. But profilers,

896
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:36.920
we all love profiles, right, criminal profilers. That's so cool. Well,

897
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:39.800
back in nineteen eighty three, eighty forty five, in the eighties,

898
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.079
that was considered kind of junk science. Back then, they

899
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.719
didn't really put a lot of weight into it. But

900
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.480
there was an FBI agent. His name was Robert Wrestler,

901
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:51.199
and he thought that he could nail this. He did.

902
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.760
He had been studying forever and he thought he could

903
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:58.119
nail it. And in his gut he felt like Danny's

904
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:01.800
brother was right in what he he had told police.

905
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:04.079
Why did he think that Danny's brother was right about

906
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:08.199
that white male in the tan car Prowlin, Well, he

907
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.320
looked at a lot of the demographics of where it

908
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.559
took place, the abduction that the neighborhoods took place in. Well,

909
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:18.679
it's a mostly white neighborhood. So what that means is

910
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:23.559
someone of color would have stuck out to the people

911
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:26.960
that lived there. So he did believe that this abductor

912
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:30.440
was a white person that took these boys. He felt

913
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:35.119
like the method of dumping. The bodies seemed panicked, and

914
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:39.280
so this probably was an inexperienced killer. But he says,

915
00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:43.440
this abductor knows this area well, I think he's local.

916
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:47.760
For a little more insight on that Danny's dump site

917
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:50.960
was on a dead end road. Nobody traveling would have

918
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:54.199
found this road. It was not one that was easily

919
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.119
gotten to, and that's why only a local would have

920
00:55:57.159 --> 00:55:59.960
known about it, and that's why he said this. Additional

921
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.760
profile notes said that agent Wrestler thought police should be

922
00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:09.280
looking for someone in their late teens, maybe twenty, but

923
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.079
he did not go over the age of twenty. He said,

924
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.000
this person is going to have no higher than a

925
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.480
high school education, and he believed that this person had

926
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:22.039
either hurt or molested young children as a kid himself.

927
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:26.840
That's who you're looking for. But in terms of profiling

928
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:30.599
the behavior of who was doing this, this person had

929
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:34.199
to be a sadist. Hands down. These children were not raped,

930
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:38.239
but they were stripped down to their underwear before they

931
00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:42.320
were tortured and then murdered. So he felt like this

932
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:47.119
killer was driven more by fantasy desires than by planning

933
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:49.960
the killing ahead of time, so they were they were

934
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.360
more spur of the moment, a crime of opportunity. But

935
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.079
these fantasies, this person was getting wrapped up in it,

936
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:58.119
and that's whenever they would see somebody and take them,

937
00:56:58.159 --> 00:57:00.000
see a child and take them. But do not get

938
00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:04.239
it twisted. These murders definitely had the motive, which was

939
00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:08.400
sexual motivation, even though the children were not raped. The

940
00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:15.119
idea was basically this sadists experience arousal and pleasure through

941
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:20.599
acts of cruelty and corporal punishment, and that pleasure, that

942
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:24.719
sexual pleasure is derived when they're able to humiliate their victim.

943
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:28.880
So when the killer was watching these children suffer at

944
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:32.960
his own hands, this brought on a rush of adrenaline

945
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.440
and dopamine because he felt so powerful in that moment

946
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:40.559
that he was turned on by the violence. And there's

947
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:44.559
a pedophilic twist to it because he was targeting children.

948
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:50.880
So another element of the profile was that this the

949
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:56.239
agent felt like this killer had latent homosexual tendencies, but

950
00:57:56.360 --> 00:58:00.239
he hated himself for it, so he liked to put himself.

951
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:02.320
He liked to strip the kids down, but he wouldn't

952
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:05.519
rape them because he hated himself for his homosexuality. And

953
00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:08.360
he said you can take it to the bank. This

954
00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:12.199
person is putting themselves in a position over kids, whether

955
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.599
it's coaching or I don't know, he could be a

956
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.400
youth leader something, but you can guarantee he's around kids.

957
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:23.679
So just knowing that these types of people walk the

958
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:27.679
streets freely is unnerving if you really take the time

959
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:30.719
to focus on what I'm telling you. But now at

960
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:32.639
least the public had someone that they could be on

961
00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:35.559
the lookout for in terms of that sketch that was

962
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:39.719
drawn up, so everybody was on high alert. This news

963
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:43.639
was huge. It was so unsettling that there were posters

964
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:48.760
and printouts of this potential suspect sketch put everywhere, including

965
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:51.559
the local Air Force base which was off at Air

966
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:55.519
Force Base. A lot of people in the town worked

967
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:59.000
there because that's how big it was. Matter of fact,

968
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:03.360
had Danny's dad been in the military, he was in

969
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:08.159
the Air Force, but so had Christopher Walden's dad. That

970
00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:13.920
would be Lieutenant Colonel Walden to me and you, so

971
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.719
no doubt these boys had good dad's, strong military men,

972
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:23.719
and now their killer's potential sketch is now all over

973
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:29.519
the air Force base. So the goal here was that

974
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.000
if they put this front and center on the bulletin

975
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:37.079
boards that maybe somebody would keep it in their mind's

976
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:39.480
eye and they could pick this guy out. I mean,

977
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:41.760
they had this big maintenance building on the air Force

978
00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:44.559
base and a lot of people worked in that maintenance department,

979
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.679
and so for example, they had one front and center

980
00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:52.559
on their bulletin board, hoping that someone might recognize somebody

981
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.960
that looked like that sketch. By this point, it was

982
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:02.119
confirmed by the FBI that that first missing newsboy, the

983
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.320
one I told you that Danny was warned about, we

984
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:07.519
have a newspaper delivery boy that was missing. Be careful well.

985
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:11.039
That boy was actually from Des Moines, and it was

986
01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:16.280
determined that his disappearance was not related to the Danny

987
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:19.519
Eberly case as they first thought. Now I'm going to

988
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:21.360
tell you something right now, in twenty twenty five that

989
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:25.400
they wouldn't necessarily they wouldn't know this. But the reason

990
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.639
we know, or they believe that it wasn't connected makes

991
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:33.679
sense to because to this day, to this day, that

992
01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:38.639
child has not been found, that first child, but Danny

993
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:42.360
and Christopher's murders they did believe were connected. This has

994
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:45.760
got to be the same guy and before long a

995
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:49.719
man was arrested and it made the papers. Now this

996
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:54.119
man's name was Michael Rice. Michael was nineteen years old

997
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:58.840
and problematic to say the least. He worked as a

998
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:03.159
truck driver, and he was now in custody. Now why

999
01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:05.440
was he in custody, Well, he was charged with kidnapping,

1000
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.719
sexual assault, and making terroristic threats. But it was not

1001
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:12.960
in relation to these two missing children or these two

1002
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.400
murdered children's case. It was something else. So while was

1003
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.400
for another case, basically from what I understand, he was

1004
01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:24.159
believed to have molested two other boys, it sure did

1005
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:26.880
seem like he may fit the bill for the person

1006
01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:32.039
responsible for Danny and Christopher's murders. So while the details

1007
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:35.800
of that arrest, that initial rest are pretty vague, what

1008
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:39.239
I was able to derive from it was that he

1009
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:45.760
was being investigated for false imprisonment. And during Danny Eberley investigation,

1010
01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:50.199
that's when they actually got Michael Rice and were able

1011
01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:53.000
to see that he had done something to some other boys,

1012
01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:55.599
like the Everly case kind of brought this about, and

1013
01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:58.559
he had used a knife in the crimes of these

1014
01:01:58.599 --> 01:02:03.159
other kids. So this additional charge of third degree sexual

1015
01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:07.440
assault had been added because he was touching those other victims.

1016
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:10.960
So he was determined obviously to be a person of

1017
01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:14.840
interest in the case of the Danny Eberley investigation as

1018
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:19.320
well as Christopher, but they didn't have enough evidence yet

1019
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:22.400
to confirm this. They had a suspicion, but they couldn't

1020
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:25.519
confirm it. But at least he was in custody and

1021
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:28.199
now he was being questioned, and he was being questioned

1022
01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:32.800
hard to determine. Were there any similarities or common denominators

1023
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:36.920
between all of these cases and mister Rice, oh, and

1024
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:41.159
I'll add this, he failed his light detector test. So

1025
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.679
the search for the killer was going to continue, though,

1026
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.760
because they weren't one hundred percent convinced they had their guy,

1027
01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:51.199
and so they weren't just gonna quit. They even went

1028
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:56.920
and visited known convicted pedophiles in the area. And when

1029
01:02:56.960 --> 01:03:02.960
I heard this, I justugh an Air Force major who

1030
01:03:03.159 --> 01:03:07.119
liked to cruise around for boys and for gay men.

1031
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:13.159
He wanted to persuade them to undress for photographs. They

1032
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:16.320
knew this guy did this, but they came up with

1033
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:18.519
no new leads even checking that guy out. They checked

1034
01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:20.039
out more, but that was one of them that they

1035
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:21.480
checked out. And it just made me want to puke.

1036
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:27.280
But five weeks later, on January eleventh, something would happen

1037
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:32.480
that broke this case wide open. Aldersgate Preschool. This was

1038
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:36.360
a Christian school that served kids between the ages of

1039
01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:40.599
like three and five. And something to me about preschool

1040
01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:43.400
teachers is just so precious. Maybe it's the clothes or

1041
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:46.079
the sweetness of teaching kiddos, but preschool is just pure

1042
01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:49.280
magic to me those days if you think about it.

1043
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:52.559
These kids are full of play and hugs and encouragement

1044
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.280
and of course the snacks. I mean, hell, as adults,

1045
01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:56.920
we need this shit too. We should do We should

1046
01:03:56.920 --> 01:03:59.280
be hugging and eating snacks okay, and being told we're

1047
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:04.360
beautiful in God blows us. But one thing that preschools

1048
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:08.320
aren't is a place for evil to hang out. That's

1049
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.760
not the place. So the teachers were on high alert

1050
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:15.360
after these killings, and that included the director of the

1051
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:18.480
Aldersgate Preschool. Her name was Miss Barbara Weaver, and she

1052
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:21.519
was going about her day when she noticed a vehicle

1053
01:04:22.039 --> 01:04:27.320
circling their parking lot. Now this wasn't necessarily unusual per se,

1054
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.880
because they were right outside of a church, So you know,

1055
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:33.719
maybe he was trying to find where he was supposed

1056
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:35.719
to be. Maybe he was new, who knows, but call

1057
01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:38.880
it instincts or a woman's intuition, but just the way

1058
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:44.000
the car drove it just kind of irked her spidy senses.

1059
01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.800
She didn't really know what was going on. It bothers

1060
01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:49.679
so much that she was watching from a window and

1061
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:54.559
she even decided to memorize the license plate of this car. Well,

1062
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:58.760
on the next circle round, the man ended up parking

1063
01:04:59.199 --> 01:05:01.280
the car. She's like, oh, okay, well, maybe maybe he

1064
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:02.840
was trying to go to the church or he was

1065
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:05.280
trying to verify he was in the right place. But

1066
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:08.960
when the man parked, he just sat in the car

1067
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:13.320
and he stared at her. She's looking at him, he's

1068
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:17.239
looking at her, and he's not getting out of he's

1069
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:21.280
not doing anything. But then he opened the door and

1070
01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:23.119
he got out, and she said, oh, this is a

1071
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.440
young guy. And as he walked closer, she said wow

1072
01:05:26.519 --> 01:05:29.440
to herself. You know, he's got really pretty eyes, but

1073
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.960
just a sadness about him. It just she felt like,

1074
01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:36.639
my goodness, something's wrong, you know what's going on. So

1075
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:39.920
as he approached the door, Barbara pushed the door open.

1076
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:41.639
And asked, you know, can I help you? Are you?

1077
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:44.559
Is there anything you need? And she says, in a

1078
01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:48.960
very trembling voice and a very broken spirit, he said,

1079
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:53.840
I need some directions, and so she obliged his request.

1080
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.599
But when she was giving him the directions and pointing

1081
01:05:56.599 --> 01:05:58.719
and telling him where he needed to go, he just

1082
01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:03.199
seemed confused and he couldn't seem to understand the directions

1083
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:06.440
that she was given, so he became frustrated. And that's

1084
01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:08.400
when he said, look, can I just use a phone please?

1085
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:11.000
And I need to make a call, and you know whatever,

1086
01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:16.440
well something about him, even though he was very timid,

1087
01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:22.559
trembling and sad, it just wasn't sitting right with her.

1088
01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:25.519
And she said, I'm sorry, we don't have a public phone,

1089
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:28.039
but you can, you know, you just go down here.

1090
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.679
But in the moment that she denied him that phone,

1091
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:39.440
his whole entire persona shifted night and day. And he

1092
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:43.719
jumped forward and he grabbed her and he started violently

1093
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:46.559
trying to shove her back into the building, and he

1094
01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:49.440
snarled at her as he was shoving on her that

1095
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:51.119
if you don't get back in this building, I am

1096
01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:54.280
going to kill you. But that's when he fucked up.

1097
01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:59.760
You know why because that sweet voice, long dress, and

1098
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:04.639
church hills wearing woman. Be damned. If this man was

1099
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:07.679
about to shove her backup in a building and killed her,

1100
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:13.679
he picked the wrong one today, because Barbara was not like, no,

1101
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:17.639
but forgive me, lord, Hell no, this ain't happening, and

1102
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:21.159
she matched energy. She put her hands back up and

1103
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:23.840
she started shoving with all her might, and she was

1104
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:27.360
fighting back. She shoved him back and was able to

1105
01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:30.559
rip away, bolt out of the doorway, and she was

1106
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:35.199
running for her life. But she wasn't just running to

1107
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:38.599
be running. She was running with purpose, straight to the

1108
01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:41.599
man with all the answers, Straight to the man she

1109
01:07:41.639 --> 01:07:43.880
knew could save her life, and straight to the man

1110
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:46.559
she knew that could have had the words and the

1111
01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:49.400
wisdom to help those children. And it was the pastor

1112
01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:53.320
of the church. He was just yards away in his office,

1113
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:58.360
and she ran straight to him. Her willingness to fight,

1114
01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:03.880
Remember this, her willingness to fight back shook. That would

1115
01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:08.400
be intruder because when she fought back, he wasn't ready

1116
01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:11.159
for it. He expected her to crumble under the fear

1117
01:08:11.239 --> 01:08:13.679
he was putting in her eyes, and she wasn't having it.

1118
01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:16.279
So when she got away and took off running, he

1119
01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:19.640
did too. He turned around and he took off running

1120
01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:23.359
in the opposite direction. Because that's the thing with killers

1121
01:08:23.399 --> 01:08:28.359
and abusers and evil it's that they expect weakness in

1122
01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:30.520
the face of the fear that they are trying to

1123
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:33.760
put on you. He tried to establish control and it

1124
01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:36.279
did not go the way that he expected, and he

1125
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:40.000
had to abort mission and abort quickly because he was

1126
01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:43.359
not getting an easy target. Y'all don't be an easy

1127
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:50.600
target ever, ever. Fight their asses back. So the vehicle

1128
01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:54.760
that he was driving was a Chevy and guess what.

1129
01:08:55.239 --> 01:08:59.199
The teacher had memorized the plate. She knew it. It

1130
01:08:59.239 --> 01:09:02.000
was in her gut. She knew what it was, and

1131
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:04.640
so she gave it to police, who responded and they

1132
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:07.279
were able to confirm that it was, in fact a

1133
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:13.279
rental car. Bingo who rented this car, Well, it turned

1134
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:16.079
out that it was a young man by the name

1135
01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:19.760
of John Jubert. Now, hey, I'm from South Louisiana. I'm

1136
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:22.960
gonna tell you right now, that's Jobert all day long. Okay,

1137
01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:25.079
if you are down where I'm at, we would call

1138
01:09:25.159 --> 01:09:29.000
him John Jobert. But everyone else, says Jewbert. So I'm

1139
01:09:29.039 --> 01:09:32.279
gonna go with it. You can take the girl out

1140
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:33.640
the buyu, y'all, but you can't take the buy you

1141
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:35.720
out the girl. I'm sorry to tell you, all right,

1142
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.279
But either way, mister Jewbert wasn't very hard to find

1143
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:43.720
once they identified who he was, why, because he signed

1144
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:49.880
the rental agreement and he was literally right nearby. Matter

1145
01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:53.920
of fact, he was a soldier and he was stationed

1146
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:57.600
right there at that Offit Air Force base. So the

1147
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:00.520
police went to have a word with him, and when

1148
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:03.359
they were led back to where he was, they found

1149
01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:08.000
him curled up asleep in his bunk. And frankly, he

1150
01:10:08.359 --> 01:10:12.199
wasn't what the police were expecting. Matter of fact, I

1151
01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:14.319
don't even know if they knew what they thought that

1152
01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:17.680
they were expecting, but it certainly wasn't this rather small

1153
01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:22.359
teenage looking guy curled up in a bunk, fast asleep.

1154
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:26.399
So when they got him awake, he seemed very surprised

1155
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:29.520
that they were there. But he was taken into custody

1156
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:32.319
and he was brought down to the station for questioning

1157
01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:36.119
about why he was believed to have attacked a preschool teacher.

1158
01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:40.840
So who was this John Jebert And why was he

1159
01:10:40.920 --> 01:10:45.399
out there attacking preschool teachers? Also, what does this have

1160
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.760
to do with the rest of this case that I've

1161
01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:51.720
been these cases I've been talking about, or does it

1162
01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:55.359
You're gonna have to wait and find out whenever I

1163
01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:58.520
finished this up next episode. But I want to leave

1164
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:02.439
you with a question to ponder. What does a killer

1165
01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:08.800
look like, specifically a child killer? Can you imagine it

1166
01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:11.640
in your mind right now? And I don't mean the

1167
01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:17.039
ones that are famously you know, already caught. I'm talking

1168
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:21.279
about the ones that are still out there right now

1169
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:27.479
that have yet to be identified. Could you pick them out?

1170
01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:31.600
Could you pick out when you walk past one at Walmart,

1171
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:35.359
when you walk past one at church, when you talk

1172
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:38.720
to one in the drive through at the restaurant. Could

1173
01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:45.000
you do it? Because for now, two mothers sat in silence,

1174
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:51.680
miles apart, but both staring at an empty space where

1175
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:57.119
their child should be. They're past that initial collapse of grief,

1176
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:01.760
but they now sit and stare into the emptiness where

1177
01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:05.920
there used to be the sounds of rambunctious boys and

1178
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:10.920
surrounded by that hollow silence. One question lingers with both

1179
01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:15.960
of them, like smoke after a big fire. What kind

1180
01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:21.079
of soul took pleasure in extinguishing the light of my child.