The Confession

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning. Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, it's kJ here with the Memorial Day weekend bonus audio for everyone.

1:03 I know some of y'all might be traveling, so after a lot of requests, I'm dropping the full Israel Keys confession for the Samantha Koenig case, and I'm dropping it right here for you to hear. I hope you enjoyed this little extra, or land yap as we call it down South. All right, it's sure, how you doing today? Good? All right? That's the everybody record week recorder. Yep. Okay, I'm gonna I want to smash the button. Here's that's okay, got it right? Okay, Good afternoon Israel I'm going to introduce everybody again. I think you know everybody in the room. But this is a special agent pain from the FBI, Frank Russa from the US Attorney's Office, Officer Belfronanguage Police Department, Tactive Dolph and Maghage Police Department. For I'm Kathy Faldus from US Attorney's Office. And you're here today with mister Kardner.

1:54 And if you can't advise with your rights several times, is that correct, guess, including by the judge at your areema yep. I wanna advise you again specifically that you have the right from me in silent me you say today and will be used against you. Do you understand that? Yes? Okay, if you breed away in those rights, and do you want to talk to us? Yes? Okay, Ready to go ahead and dial up a few other people who are working with us. Okay, okay, alright, okay, well poub was okay?

2:35 Okay, can you put that on you? Done? Thanks? Thank you Israel. When we spoke on Friday, you told us that you killed Samantha Cones in that way, yes, and then you called us such over some other things that you'd like to tell us about that and specifically, and you're gonna wait to another session for that. That's right? Good? Do I stand that correctly? Yes? Okay? Uh so we're here today and we're gonna talk to you about that. Okay, all right, okay, is there a place that if you'd like to speak in or is there Well you're gonna get the abridged version. What does that mean? I'm gonna leave out some stuff? And what there's too many there's too many people in here? So too many people?

3:31 Yeah? Yes, what what is that about? There being too many people? Some of the stuff is very h personal to me publish and yeah, it's hard to describe, but I don't feel comfortable looking at it telling it to a lot of people. So it's up. It's up to you. I mean, if you aren't me a bridgeworth and to people that, I mean, you'll still get all the same information. But well, why do we do this if we don't know where we're headed? I don't know where we're heading to drive for me? You know that, right, So let's start and we'll see where we the end up.

4:18 Okay, all right, I kind of feel like I should say something, But if I'm coming in kind of in the middle of the baseball. Game here, so I'm not really sure where to start. I'm here, you heard I did, although I got to say that the relay I was out of state and so the relay was really bad. I got it. Sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher. Most of it, you know, I wah wah wa wah wah. So most of it I didn't understand, and some of it I did. H And I'm you know, I'm not really sure if you want me to ask you questions or if. You if you have questions.

4:58 Okay, well the first question I have does it really have anything to do specifically with Samantha. It has more to do with can I start out there? Yeah, okay, I'm not talked with you about this specifically. So it's kind of an impression I got in when we spoke in Texas, and it might be completely wrong. And if I'm going completely off dazed, just tell me. But I got the distinct impression that. You really didn't want to be raised by your mom, and I talked to you, and then the next day, after your initial hearing, I got a chance to speak to the mom and.

5:46 She didn't say anything again. It was just an impression I got. But I think I. Know a little bit about why you wouldn't want to be raised by your mom. Something that you heard. Is that something you're concerned about? Is that something anymore? Okay? So you're okay, okay, all right, so you taking steps. We don't need to talk about that, and I'm not gonna cut it. We got you know, we've talked about that. It's fine, okay, sure. Okay, So I won't waste any more time about it. Like I said, I kind of feel like I'm coming in in the middle of the game's I'm a substitute hitter up here, and I don't really know where you guys left off and why there were some things that you wanted to speak to only me about. So I don't know what questions to ask.

6:40 You don't have to ask like I say, uh, I'll give you a detailed account of everything that happened. If you want a blow by blow account, then I won't do it. No like what I was thinking or what was said between her and I, that stuff stays with me. Unless there's just fewer people in this ring, at. Least your attorney has to stay. Just start with the a Bridge version and want to answer that question, what are you talking about? Well, before I go into anything, one thing I'm concerned about is some of the details, regardless of which version I tell you, are going to be very graphic, and I don't want to hear about them being on the media. I assume that you already talked to you about that. I don't imagine that you are gonna want them on the media either, at least I can't imagine why. So you know, I'm

8:12 assuming that this video is just for your own review, and you gotta talk review. You gotta talk to me about that because I'm the lawyer, Okay, So go ahead. Well that's those are my concerns. I mean, I don't I'm not trying to salvage my own reputation at this point. I'm trying to spare my family and people who know me the depth of I guess you could say the double life I have. Obviously, like I say, they're going to know the bottom line and all the other details.

8:59 You know, if you expect me to say anything at any point in the future about anything else, whether it's this or anything, then that's going to change directly on what I perceives that you're portraying to the media about the details. Yes, well, here's what you've done so far. Let me tell you what we've done so far, and I think it's lived up to what you requested. We haven't told anybody what you told us the other day, and it hasn't been on the new moves. I'm sure you know that the only covers that I saw was that they had to take these things from house. I think we're very respectful about that chi Equity who talked her very turned. It was all done very professionally, and it was done in my orders that way, So I understand what you're saying. I think you know that people are gonna hear about you. It's more being pool.

9:56 We're not out there right now telling people what you said, but we all know that people will hear about We can't keep. You can't keep the facts of what happened, but you can keep things that I said that I say to you confident we can. Look. We're not out here to horrify anybody. We have respect for the public. If that's what you're saying, right, you know they don't need to hear all the details. Well, that's my concern is that the media actually likes that stuff, and the public does too, whether you want to believe it or not. There's a lot of people who want to hear all dihierstand and we're not here. We're not doing this to please the media, where fact finders is what we are.

10:43 Obviously, the public will know the ultimate facts and some of the things you do. They don't need to know all those details. I get what you're saying. People are boyears. People want to know the dirty little details. And throughout the last eight or nine weeks, we've had people constantly banging down our door and this has been one of the most controlled releases of information, this case, more so than any other case it's ever been worked by the anchor's police depart where we've done a better job of controlling outflow. Of information and we will continue to do so. There's no reason for us to put the dirty little details of anything about Samantha's death in the newspaper. There is also no reason for us to tell her father or anybody else with dirty little details, nothing that can get back to your family. The only people that need to know it are the investigators. You already know it, the attorneys.

11:44 And eventually the judge. So I have no intention of releasing any details because it is only. Going to harm people. It's not going to help anybody. It's going to satisfy a sick curiosity that I'm not interested in. That we see it. Well, we're getting pounded for it. I mean, you've seen some of the plag We're getting pounded for not releasing information, and we're being thick skin. That's why we do the job we do, and we don't care what people say about it. No one's heard anything about the lake yet. Alright, So is that wrapped up? No? I can't. Yeah, I can't say it's just wrapped up yet, but we're we're keeping it pretty located, alright.

12:26 Alright, yeah, okay, so when don't we Well, what we asked you last time was what happened to Samantha once you've brought it back. To your house? Alright? So I left off, went to the ATM, and after I had checked the card and made sure it was the right kind number, I went back to the house and by then it was getting pretty late and I had already had a phone mat on top of a nine x twelve tarp laid out on the shed and she was sitting on a bucket, five gallon bucket in the shed, and I had.

13:36 A piece of rope it was round her neck and I had it screwed to the wall some of those screws that were in there, there were some big fender washers, and I would tie a knot in the rope and screwed into the frames. On the shed. And that's how I held her there so she couldn't move. And was she cooperative with you got about this while you were doing this? Yeah, well, the whole time I told her that I made it sound like it was gonna be a a quick exchange as far as a ransom of some kind, and that was an impression she was under.

14:23 So she told sh if she did what you told her to, it was her impression that, you know, you would eventually let her go. And yeah, that's what she was saying. I never actually told her that, gotcha. She was kind of looking to you to kind of confirm that. I. Uh, I wasn't a t s. I wasn't aggressive towards her at all. I tried to, you know, I I would ask her what she would mean, like, you know, I'd let her smoke curse cigarettes and prod or some water.

15:04 Had the radio on in the shed up fairly loud, just in case she decided to start screaming or something. And the shed at the time you open the door and immediately to the right, for the whole length of the shed out two feet out and all the way to the ceiling were built in cabinets two levels. Did they have doors, Yeah, they had sliding doors. Originally was set up to be a girl room, and that's why there's holes in the floor for there was like lots of extra wiring and plumbing in the fans I had in that shed originally, but I mean I lost interest in just quit doing it a while ago. And yeah, so there were those cabinets, so there wasn't really much room in the shed at the time. There was the floor and there was only about floor space was only about three feet wide by the length of the shed.

16:15 And she was sitting at the back, and there was a shelf above her head. It's just like a bowl shelf that was supported by a closet shelf support. It was twelve inches wide with the hook for the closet rod in the front. And like I said, on the floor, there was a tart and h foam mat and a sleeping or not a sleeping bag really, but like a fleece, a sleeping bag of sorts. Could you put the tart down to catch any glove.

16:56 No, just to keep anything from her transferring to the shed? Gotch Well if you put the phone mat and that stuff was all put down the head of time, probably a day or two before and at the spasion of bringing someone, I was thinking about it. I didn't have a specific plan in line turn. And I may have missed as this on the first But did you have a specific person in mind? Did you know I had? I had that location in mind just because of where it was and the fact that they were open late, and the fact that I had staked it out. Maybe I don't remember how long before a couple of days it seemed like I walked by and it looked like there was only one person working there, and there weren't a lot of cars around, so so it was in the back of my mind.

17:56 I didn't really know for sure that I was gonna do anything. I thought maybe I might just uh rop that place. And why did you decide it's cool? That's why did you aspires? It's a home depot parshing lot instead of in the neighborhood back beat my the coffee shop in. A darker. And it you know, I don't know, good question. I guess I didn't think the video cameras were that good. I remember seeing the I hoop camera h and I remember thinking that thing looks like it's twenty years old.

18:36 It probably doesn't even record anymore. But I wasn't really worried about the video because I had my face covered the whole time, and I think I had the front license plade off my truck removed and the back license plate is almost always covered with snow. The truck didn't look anything like it normally does. Right well, And I can tell. You there's some if I or twenty five Chevy tracks are very similar, incredibly similar. To yours in the eight age fool. It's the most common truck and anchorage, so uh, the windshield up, their people told me anyway, So yeah, that's a I did think about parking back in the neighborhoods, but there was so much snow there wasn't a lot of places to park, and I was worried. I was more worried about having someone hit my truck and having it turned into a big thing or getting a traffic ticket or right whatever. So, and there were other places aroundtown that I was looking at too.

19:39 Where where else around town? I was looking at Puffmann area because that was there's several coffee stands along that road and they stay openly too. There's not very many people around, and there were several public areas where I could have parked. So I was looking at dot a YouTube. But honestly, it was it's kind of like a spur of the moment thing. The way it happened. I when I robbed her, she was, you know, very cooperative, and I don't know, I just even, I guess you could say, against my judgment, I just kept going with it, even though I had already told myself that if whoever was there didn't have a car, then I wasn't gonna do anything more than rob him and tie them up, and that there was something about her, like the way she reacted that kind of made me want to just keep going with it. And plus, like I said, I had my police scan in my ear, and it seems like there was something going on on the east side, so I knew most of the police would be over there, and I thought I was just on a real adrenaline rush. I thought I could just walk right down the street and nobody and I had

21:11 never done anything that brazen before, and I thought, I, yeah, it was just really really adrenaline Russian was determined at that point that it was gonna happen regardless of what I had to do. And because it it that's a good word. The the whole thing seemed very brazen, and that was one of the things that kind of has confused me all along, because how brazen the whole thing was, and how kind of. How overt the whole thing was, you know, like almost like a bank robbery, where it was just like I'm gonna walk up and do this. And it's not like Tutor is a small road. Tutor is like a pretty name thoroughfare and anchorage, you know.

21:58 So my thought was that people walk down that street all the time, and in a way, if it's the fact that it was busy and there were people around, and I was right, I passed lots of people. Even when we were walking. It seems like I passed a person who was walking, and every time someone was close, I would just take the gun and like push it against her, so she knew that I was I knew what she was thinking. And that was. That was the part that became part of it. I guess. Did she carby away or follow the ground or she.

22:39 Did she tried to get away on tutor. We were only about one hundred feet from the coffee stand, maybe maybe two hundred feet. Weren't you carrying a purse to yep? How were you holding the purse in agu I put? I picked up that camera as we were leaving, and I made some comment that it was my lucky day. And had the purse and the camera by the straps in one hand and had my arm around her with the other, had my other arm around her my right arm, and I had the gun in my right hand, but I didn't have it ready to fire. I just had it.

23:25 I was holding it around the cylinder and the trigger card, but I had the barrel up so she would think I had it ready to fire. And yeah, I just told her to act like she was my girlfriend and just act like maybe she was a little bit drunk or something, and I was helping her. And after that first time she tried to get away and I tackled her. After that she know I was serious, and after that she could give me any problems. So the whole entire time after that, she was compliant, She was cooperative, and she kind of like knew you meant business.

24:10 Yeah, I mentioned the omen we're finding the camera. What did you mean? It was just lucky that you could mean. Yeah, that did have some meaning to you. No, it's just no, not every day. You finally a two or three hundred dollars camera laying on the ground. So did you use the camera app you come? No, that was the one that we got any named one of the sheds. It was on my trailer, I think because it was in the front of the trip. Did you ever try to use it? Was it been working conditions? Oh? Yeah it was. I don't know. There was a There was a card in an SD curt When I first I didn't check it for weeks. I didn't obviously other things on my mind, but I.

24:55 I do. You remember when I pulled it out and start looking at it, it was like a really good camera. It was way better than I expected, and it had a SD card in it, and there were a few pictures on it, nothing really recognizable, And as far as I could see I couldn't really tell who it belonged to, So I just took the SD card and the batteries out and threw him away and just I think I just stuck it in my trailer or something. I don't know, gotcha. So and again I apologize because they only got part of it. Did you go from the Home People parking lot to Glenary Park?

25:36 Yep? I think we went straight there. Yep. Drove down to Nolley Train, left on Northern Lights right away, she said she DP. Plus she was just sitting in the front of my truck. She had a seat built on. But she could have, like, if she had thought about it, she could have got out really quick before I could have done much about it. So I wanted to get her. But yeah, so that was the closest place they could think of, Lanari and went down there and parked in a corner of the parking lot. There were a couple other cars. I think there were even people there just skiing.

26:20 And after they left, I let her out so she could beee and then cleaned out the back seat and put her in the back and had her she was cold at her covered all up and dropped close and stuff. Gotcha. Was she laying down or was she sitting up? She was laying on the back seat, on the jump seat, and. With her hands still behind her. Did you move them in front of her at some point? I think they were in front after she was Yeah, once she was in the back, I put them in front. But they weren't tight tight they had. I had two individual cables ties on her wrists, you know, like as tight as you would put handcuffs, and then between those I would run other cable ties. Yeah, they weren't very tight, just enough that she can't kind of crazy. I didn't have her feet tied. She was mostly just tied to the seat belts in the truck with cable ties.

27:26 And so even if she had opened the door. She could she couldn't have got out. She was she I had long cable ties. I think they were thirty six inches long, and I had him through the seat belts and wrapped all the way around her and then cinched down to hold her on the seat. And so yeah, she couldn't. When you're I mean, what what was the plan from there? I mean, you got this chick, you got her away, you know, now you're in glenary park, and you're kind of home free, right, I mean, you're kind of. You. I wasn't of the bright light. I wasn't in any hurry I was. I mean I talked to her quite a bit. I was asking her about her debit card, where it was her cell phone? She kept telling me your cell phone didn't work. And you know, I found out that all the stuff was in other places. None of it was in her purse, not even her keys.

28:29 She left her keys in the coffee stand her I left her keys. I thought I had grabbed everything and thrown it in her purse, but her cell phone and her keys were on a different counter, and I didn't see him. I think I had a headlamp on. How did you know how to put the dowel in the window? Is it just sitting there and playing to you? I mean that was pretty. You put the dowel in the window of the coffee. Well, my whole intention was to make it look like it had the shop that closed somewhat normally. Okay, And the Dallas were I don't remember where they were. I think they were fairly obvious they were.

29:10 They were there somewhere, complained to you somewhere so you could see. Yeah, gotcha. So as you were talking or you're asking her about the debit card, you're asking her about her cell phone. I mean, what was the plan with those items specifically? I mean you wanted her cell phone? For what. The plan was exactly what I did to do to I needed her cell phone to send. At first, I was gonna get a prepaid cell untraceable. All I've heard they're untraceable. I've never had one. I don't know if they are not. But at first I was thinking I didn't want to go back to the coffee stand because she kept saying the alarm was armed now that the door was closed, and I didn't want to break the window to get back in because that would have defeated the old purpose.

30:01 So I. I am. I was going to get a prepaid cell to send the texts, but then I realized that wouldn't be very believable since it wasn't coming from her cell. And that's when I made up my mind to go back to the stand. I figured, even if the alarm went off, I would hear it all my scanner and I would be gone before. Anybody. And then when I got there, she told me that she was bluffing me about the alarm and then it wouldn't go off, but that I didn't really believe her at that point. I thought I just was getting with My plan was to go in and out really quick and get her forward. Yeah, So as soon as I got her phone, I started sending text messages and.

30:54 And that was another question I had. Why did you respond to the text messages one from her boss, one from her boyfriend to make it seem more believable, like she was okay, and she was, you know she was? She was, Yeah, had a bad damn was pissed off at everybody, right. Plus I figured from her age that wouldn't be that unusual or certainly wouldn't be something the police would be interested in hearing about. So I figured, even if they were upset about it or out of character, there wasn't anything that was going to be done by much of anybody, at least not for a couple of days.

31:38 You were right, Yeah, both of the texts were kind of fell right in line with you know it was it was appropriate communication. So how long were you at Glennairy Park? Do you think? I mean half an hour? An hour? Now? Only about twenty minutes fifteen twenty minutes. And where did you go from there? Well, that was that That was before I had gone back to the That was where we went first. So I mean I went all kinds of places after that, but I think the first place we went after that was to the parking lot across from Walmart there was Bank parking Park, because you were considering that. I was, Yeah, I was going to go into Walmart, but I decided I didn't. Yeah, I just for one thing, I was concerned about leaving her in the truck for too long because she could have started screaming or maybe even broke out.

32:46 And yeah, so I just decided it was going to take too long and decided that it was lower risk to just get her phone. And you said that you went several of the place, and I know at one point you went to cars and you bought saying, if I remember correctly, I was just going off the memory here a couple of candy bars and a couple of cigars. So after you left the. Part that after I thought I got that stuff before eight o'clock you did. It was seventy three. Yeah, that was probably when I was on my way to home depo. Yeah, I think it was okay, want to see But yeah, I mean we were. I wasn't talking to her. She kept trying to talk to me, and I had to tell her to shut up a few times because she was, you know, trying to make friends and stuff. And but I mean, I was I was being mean to her either.

33:53 I mean we were smoking her sure, we were smoking my cigars and just kind of driving around while I figured out what to do. What do you mean, well, just I was, I was still listening for I was. She had made it sound like the alarm was going to go off, and so I was. Still waiting for the alarm call. And I didn't want to show up there right as the alarm call came in because tutors like it would only take him like a minute to get there once it came in. So so I was, I was waiting to make sure there wasn't, you know, be an alarm call. It And. I guess what was of like around ten or something when I ended up going back. Okay, I don't I don't know what we I mean, I guess I just and I probably got back to the truck like eight thirty.

34:55 It was like two and a half hours. Yeah, I don't know. I got gas in there some where she had to pee again. We went out to Earthquake part sat out there for a while. But then yeah, after I got the cell phone, I didn't waste any more time going around, and I think I pretty much sent all the texts and staked out at ATM to go to later. When you asked her about the the ATM card, where the ATM card was and she gave you her address, right, I heard that? Yeah, okay, when you were actually in the truck and you took the ATM card, where did you find the wallet?

35:48 It was an advisor, Okay, she said it would be. There the wallet was as well. Yeah, okay, Well, I think she gave me several places where it would probably be. I think she said glove box, driver's side, or compartment or the visor, and I think it was all in the visor. Why didn't you take her debit card? Her ATM card? She only told me about the one. Okay, she said it was a shared account, and that was when they had it. And when the guy came out and kind of you know, confronted you or yeah, he came out.

36:31 And said, can I help you? What did she say? I just I just stood there and looked him to wait to see what he was gonna do. I didn't have my gun on me, but you I had my knife, and I was waiting for him to see if you would like run to me or something or yeah, try And he seemed like he was uncertain of what to do, and then just turned and ran into the house. And I figured he was gonna call the police. So I fegured I had a couple of minutes, so I just ran ran to the car and got out of there before he could come back out. And from there you went back to your shad. Well, you went to the ATM.

37:13 No, I was, well, I was gonna go to the ATM, but then I realized I hadn't written down the pin number she gave me, and I couldn't remember what she had said, so I had to go back to the house and get it from her again. And why did you check the balance on the ATM? Were you just making sure the pin worked, wasn't? Well? Yeah, to see if there's money on it. I mean, I mean I believed her. I just wanted to check make sure it had an active checking account and all that. So yeah, after that, I mean yeah, that's after all that was done. I mean I had already had my truck at the house for a while. Yeah, well, she stayed in the truck for a while. I think I even had it running for quite a while, from about eleven, I don't know now, I was late in that maybek we maybe got back about twelve or one, and uh, that's when I started putting my truck back together. And I think I had the truck running and Grady Wong and stuff in the truck so she wouldn't get cold.

38:28 And I don't I don't know how long. It didn't take me long to put the truck back together. But but then there were I don't know, there were still people out. There were people out walking their dogs, and she was still awake, and I didn't wanna take her into the shed right away, so I don't, I don't know. It seemed like I was doing other stuff to kill time. I was putting tools away and making sure everything was locked up. Right. Was she still trying to tack to you or her head? She pretty much figured out O. No, I told her, Well, I wasn't in the truck any that time. I just I had the drop cloth overhead in case anybody came by and you know, stopped by the house or whatever.

39:09 And I just told her that I didn't want to see her her head come up, gotcha. And she wasn't trying to make any noise like being on a sacker track, right. Nope, she was. She was just laying there. And then. Yeah, I don't know what time it was, maybe maybe around one to one o'clock or one or two. I think that's when the neighborhood had quieted down enough, and I think maybe she was getting ready to go to bed, So that's when I walked her over into the shed, sat her down. Anyway, that's kind of out of order because I didn't do any of the any of the credit card stuff until she was alreadying the ship. But anyway, so yeah, does after all the credit her ATM and stuff was done, I got a glass of wine and go to some water, and.

40:14 She was. She was asking me if everything was working out okay, and if I had got a hold of her dad, and if I if the if I had the ATM card and if you know. She just asked me if all this stuff was going as planned and and I said, yeah, it's fine, and unscrewed grope from the wall and cut the ties off of her hands, not the cable ties on her wrist, but the tie betwen him. And had her laid down on the floor on the map, and took two more pieces of rope and put 'em through the cable ties.

41:07 And on her hands her hands. Yeah, two separate pieces of rope on her hands. And then I tied knots in the ends of the rope and I screwed her screwed the rope down to the floor floor of the wall, so her arms were out. And did she ever struggle for any others or did she just let you do that? She knew? She knew at that point she said, uh, please don't rate me. And I. But I uh put my head right up to her ear, and I said, you knew this was coming. And she started to nod and she started to cry a little bit.

41:57 I said, you can make any here, you can make it harder. And she was still cooperative, but she was she was really scared at that point. And so after I had her hands screwed down, I am, remember how I tire feet? I think I I don't think I did much to tire feet. I think. I just took about a six foot piece of nylon rope and nodded it around her ankles.

42:39 She I'm sorry. Was she face up? No, she's face down, okay. And she didn't try to kick you or anything with her feet, her anything not fine, okay, I'm sorry. And and then after I have her all tied down, I went up and was still awake. I went in the house. There was a I didn't have her gagged any of this time. I just told her that I had my scanner on and if any neighbors reported any screaming, I was going to be back in a second, and you know she'd be sorry. And she yeah, she never tried to scream. But I didn't have her gagged or anything at time choosing the shed, and but I wanted to put a gag in her mouth before I raped her.

43:40 And so I went into the to the bedroom and I had a silk handkerchief. It was a purple. I wanted to pick that. It was something I had left over from a girlfriend a long time ago in Seattle. We used to uh tie each other up with them and uh yeah, So I had that handkerchief and I took it, took it back into the shed and gagged her. But it wasn't like, you know, she could still talk. It wasn't.

44:30 I don't know, did you when you gigged her? Did you tie it around her head or did use stuff it in her mouth? No? I tied it. I wound it up, and I didn't stick anything else in her mouth. I just I don't know. I it was mostly just cause I wanted to do it, because it didn't really keep her from making any noise. It was I just tied it around in your mouth, and. Sorry, the recorder turned out was just more a. Second right, it's good to you. So I knew she was gonna she was gonna scream eventually, So I took thirty six inch cable tie and I put it around her neck and I tightened it up, not tight, but enough that she could feel that it was there. And I told her, you know, I told her, I said, all I have to do is pull this. And once I pulled it, there's no going back if you start screaming or if I don't like the way things are going.

45:54 And she just kept nodding her head, and I took out a knife. I don't remember which knife. I think it might have been that big black folding one that I had on when they arrested me, So maybe it wasn't that one. I had another knife that you guys are not gonna find. But why are we gonna find it? It's uh I burned it in the fireplace and it's up in Anchorage landfill somewhere, okay. But it wasn't very big. It was. Had about a two or three inch blade, and it was one of the freebie knives that Leatherman gives away with, like their big multi tools. I think it was actually a knife and it was really sharp. That's the knife I had on me most of the night. But I think for some reason, I had that big black folding one and I used that to start to cut off your clothes. I started at her shirt and cut all the way down. She had on a braw cut that and then I cut the back of the arms it.

47:12 It was just a T shirt, I think grey T shirt. Did she have to keep her jacket, asked sept Now. Or was it just shed over her way? Don't think she ever had her jacket on. I thought she put it on in the coffee Kiosk. I thought you told her to put it on. Maybe she did. Yeah, I guess I did tell her to put it on. I remember thinking. I remember thinking I needed to get her tied up right away before she got any ideas, so I didn't want to give her time to put it on. But then I can remember thinking, if I put the ties on her hands, she won't be able to get her jacket off and it'll just be draped over and it's gonna attract more attention when we're walking down the road. So yeah, I guess I did let her put it on. I told her to put it on, and then I put the cable ties on. But I think by the time she was in the shed, I had her I had heaters going in there. It was hot, and she was you know, she was colder. I mean she was nervous or whatever, scared, so she was. She kept asking me to turn the temperature up. So it was hot in there. I was like eighty or ninety degrees.

48:32 Probably, so you didn't you don't remember having to cut straight with jacket at some point, you think. I did cut the jacket off of her. I took it off of her when she was I think I think when I first put her in the shed and changed the ties on her hands. I think I had her take the jacket off because I feel she gets too hot. It was because it was pretty warm in there, so so yeah, I took the jack excusey jacket off and had had a big black trash bag and I'm already a thirty, like a really big contractor's bag, and I was throwing everything in there. And I threw everything in that. I threw every cable tie, I cut her jacket, anything that touched her tape, whatever. It all went in that bag, including like the wallet with the credit card.

49:27 Like once I had the number scratched in the card, I didn't even look at it again. I threw everything in there. The only thing I took out of her purse was the cash. I didn't even take the change. There was a bunch of change and small stuff. I didn't take any of that stuff out. I just threw a purse in that big black bag, and the other cash I just I think I might have even taken it in the house right away. I stuck ca backpack that I was going to take on the trip. And yeah, so anyway, she was, she was on the floor and after I cut off her shirt, and her bro Then I took the knife and cut down each of her pant legs. She had on like black tight black pants, like stink irishpan it and she had on a thomb.

50:28 And did you wait for vaginally or angeline? I? I had some ky out there and she felt it when I put it on her, and I think she thought I was gonna sodomize her. She started saying, oh, no, not that. And after that I just stood up and looked at her for a while. I still had my clothes on, and uh just watched her for a while.

51:29 And was she still trying to talk to you? Yeah? No, she was not saying things. She was uh, she was shaped him all of that. And then I uh took my clothes off and put her on a condom and I raped her. And I don't know it was a while. I probably remember the radio was on, think a touch, I don't know, maybe two or three songs, and then uh, right before I finished, I did sodom minds there and she screamed a little bit right then, and right when she screamed, I had uh. I think I pulled on the cable tie a little bit to wort of shut up and then after it was over, she was, uh, well, she was f I don't know.

52:51 I guess you'd say she was resigned at that point and still had uh I didn't have any clothes on MM and she started asking me if I was gonna kill her, and I didn't say anything, and then she started saying that she gave really good blow jobs, and you d I don't know, I probably said something out very nice, And.

53:41 Why did you send me? Tell me? I think I said at this point that sounds like a good way to get my dick bit off, and she kind of laughed a little bit, and then I am, I put my leather gloves on. Why did you put leather shorps on on your wrap? A fox? Cause it's hard work to strangle somebody who with a cable tie. I knew. I knew from the minute she walked out of that coffee stand she wasn't she was not gonna live.

54:35 Have yours decided to how you were going to kill her? No, But after I put my gloves on a hand that little knife, that little leatherman, the one that was really sharp, had uh all out of my pocket when I was taking off my pants, and it was laying on the floor this whole time. There wasn't any light in the shed, just my head lamp.

55:17 M and. I saw that knife sitting there, and then I, uh, after I put my clothes on, I jumped on top of her, and I grabbed a cable tie with my left hand and trying out, started pulling up as hard as I could, tighten it all the way down. She never made a sound, she hadn't tie a struggle off. Screen, she had never struggle. She couldn't struggle much. Her legs were screwed down, but she her arms were screwed down too with the rope. So I was straddling her, and I had so much force on the cable tie that she was her whole, like half of her body was lifted up off the floor. And so yeah, I can have shoot and struggling. I wouldn't have been able to tell.

56:30 How long did it take her to die. It was taken. I mean, it's always it's hard to tell, but it was taken a while. And I remember thinking, I still have to shower, but I was still it's gonna sound weird, but I was still really into her. And so.

57:10 Anyway, I'm not gonna tell all that part, but I am. I stabbed her once right below her right shoulder blade in her back with the letther and with that little knife. Yeah, and it wasn't. Looking very deep, come to that. But anyway, she I didn't really stabb her to make her die faster or anything was anything else. But I took Did you stabb her because you were still attractive to her? No, I'm not gonna go into that. I took a piece of rope that was laying there.

57:59 M hm. At this point was probably a couple of minutes, and I could tell she still wasn't you know, there was still life there and tied it in the square knot to the cable tie. And then I took the rope and I hung her off that shelf support and tied like a half hitch had it so her head was in front of her body was still lifted off the ground so that there was a lot of pressure on it.

58:45 Finished my wine and put my pants on, and then went back into the house into a shower. Yep, why won't you tell me drafts to pink? Too many people? And you don't have to do that today you've lived a demokist. So after I took a shower. I had to. I had to wake up and make sure all the bags were packed and could even fed the dogs. And uh, well, I was getting roundy. I ran back up to the shed and I don't know, this is probably fifteen minutes later, twenty minutes later, and untied the rope and pulled her back a little bit, so she was on the tarp and on the like foam mattress, sleeping bag everything. And then I took the tarp and I wrapped it all around her, and then opened up the lower cabinets and as far as they would go, and put her inside and shut the cabinet.

1:00:10 Made sure that even if someone opened the cabinet would just look like a big tarp in there. And cleaned up a few things laying around the shed, unplugged all the heaters in the radio, put the extension cord back by the house, double locked the door, and went back in and grabbed the bags and called the cabin It was in the cabin two. I think I had I think her phone was in her per and I remember well, I mean the whole time, anytime I was near the house, I had the battery out of her phone. I would pull the battery out, and then if I had to send another text message, I would I would go somewhere else, some other part of town and put the battery back in and send it and then take it back out right away. Did you ever check her messages? Yeah? They kept popping up. They were constantly popping up. I mean later on, did you dial in or something to check her messages? Well? Yeah, but that was weeks later. Yeah, it seemed like it was weeks two or three weeks.

1:01:35 How do you do that? How do I check her messages? Yeah? Me from her phone or another phone? No, I was from her phone. Did you ever check from another phone? No? So you flew into Houston that time, and then you drove from Houston to Vegas. No, I mean, before you talk about what you did. What was your plan? You were getting on a plane and your body was in your shed. What were you thinking? I was thinking it was twenty degrees outside and I didn't have anything to worry about. But she left the heaters on in the shed. No, oh, okay, you did. I unplugged. I left him on when I went in to take a shower. But then I see the last thing I did, I unplugged the extension cord and it had been on for a while. I remember the extension cord overheated and melted through the ice on the driveway, and I left the like a line all the way up to the shed, and uh I was I rolled it back up and kicked some snow over. I don't know why. But then the next day, after going to Houston, I remember I called you and told her very specifically.

1:02:48 I was like, there's somebody who's been hanging around the house. I think they're gonna try and steal my tools. I want you when you fly down to park your car right in front of that shep and pull up so the bumpers almost touching the shed so that no one can break into it. And yeah, because I don't know, because I actually, yeah, it's entirely feasible that someone might have broken into that shed and we're gone steal my tools and find that instead. Would have gotten more than they worried for. Yeah, that would have been a definite a lot of explaining to do when I get back to Anchorage. Were you worried about getting on Nope? Why not? I mean, there is nothing for me to worry about. Really, it did occur to me that when I was doing all this, that was that was why before I did any of this, I kept saying, to myself, if there's not another car, you're not doing this. You're not You're not gonna do this.

1:04:03 If there's not another car, you're not doing this. You're gonna If you want to do this and there's not another car, you have to go somewhere else and do it and jack a car or something. Because because I knew that even with the racks off my truck, all it would take is maybe a couple numbers on the license plate or somebody recognizing me in the truck. So I knew I was taking a risk, but I still wasn't worried about it after it was all done because because of it, partly because it's anchorage raining. I don't know what about anchors. I just I'd been listening to the police scanner a lot recently and just kind of felt like by the time anybody figured out what had actually happened, the trail would already be cold, and even if they had pictures on my truck, they wouldn't know whose truck it was. They wouldn't have tire tracks, they wouldn't have forensic evidence. They wouldn't have shoe prints, they wouldn't have certainly wouldn't have fingerprints or DNA or anything.

1:05:21 So I didn't worry about it. Like I say, I knew there were a lot of those trucks Anchorage, so I was concerned about it, but I wasn't worried I was. I got that around Christmas. Oh, I know why I got that kind of on a I don't know, just like a impulse buy, which is unusual for me. But yeah, I wasn't saw it online. It was like radio shack advertising and of us on sale for like three hundred bucks versus support under somethings you buy it or a few to go with something like this. Just no, I was Actually, there were a lot of things I was thinking of when I bought it, but I'm one of the main things I was thinking of was that I wasn't gonna be living up here for much longer than I was planning to move back down to the States.

1:06:40 That's why I wanted it, because I was planning on doing a lot of traveling once I got down to the States, and I like to know what's going on. Yeah, I'm gonna suggest you guys, you have everything you need. I mean, you know we agreed to, you know, give you the. Information about kidnapping, homicide. He's gone through the whole thing. Yeah, I think anything further than this, and I. Think it's bill. I don't know if we agree to. I think just just a question. You know, we talk a little bit about that coming back and out. Okay, okay, yeah we can step over the whole she Houston trip. Yeah, just kind of pick up, got bad, okay? Uh yeah, So I got back on eighteen seventeen, three eighteen and remember what was it morning of the eighteenth three? It was one in the morning. Yeah, that's right, warningful eighteenth. Yeah, so I had been uh kind of watched in the weather and bridge, so I know, let's expect when I got back to pretty sure it was cold, right and

1:08:11 and it was actually starting to warm up a little bit when I got back. So I don't think I did anything that first night. I mean I checked on her, Yeah because the first what day was? What day of the week was that eighteenth was? Let me look it up here in just a second. Sunday Sunday. Yeah, So I didn't do anything that day. So yeah, I love that, so I don't do anything for that weekend.

1:08:54 It was, Yeah, it was sury nick Is Sunday over to when they were h always is and she spent Sunday over there. Sunday day, she spent Sunday night. Yeah, Sunday day she goes. Did she have school Monday? She did go to school Monday. Yeah, So I didn't do anything until the day she went to school. I don't think I couldn't get the body out of the cabinet, at least not easily, because it was frozen and the doors only opened about three and a half four feet.

1:09:41 And so I decided, I mean I had been planning on doing it anyway, because I was planning to sell that shed this spring. I started taking apart the cabinets and and took out all the lights and air conditioner. That air conditioner that was in the garage was in there, and pretty much everything in the cabinets I threw away, and like all the insulation, the lights, all that stuff went in that load to the landfill. And yeah, so I just dismantled the whole thing around her. Basically she was she was there on the lower level over the north.

1:10:28 Took it all apart, cut it up into firewood, and saved some of the There were some of the hardware I think I saved, but everything else I cut up in the firewood. And then see that would have been Monday. Yeah, so I took it all apart on Monday. And then Monday night I I rolled her out of there in the tarp, and she had bled quite a bit from that one stab wound in her back, and so the tarp had actually leaked through into the insulation on the floor of that grove cabinet. And so it took me a while to get all that torn out. I took out the drainage pipes and took out the insulation on the floor and everything else. I could see that I'm blurnt on it. And uh, all that stuff went to the fireplace, and uh, then I started bagging everything up.

1:11:50 I got a bunch of her. I think I did a big double bag, those big contractor bags. I took the sleeping bag she was on, cut it up in about four or five pieces. It was pretty much soaked with blood, and put that in the bag. Put the tarp in the bag. I cut it up in four or five pieces, and all of her clothes. When I raped her, I had the clothes kind of like wadded up underneath her, underneath their pelvis, and so they were still there. And so yeah, I like everything. I cleaned up everything I could put in that bag, and a little bit of blood got on the floor of the shed.

1:12:40 I don't know how, but pretty paranoid about that, and. So I led, I'm sorry, Did you try and clean that up right away? I think I. I think I wiped it up with paper towels and threw the papers in that garbage bag just so I would track it everywhere, and and I rolled her. I rolled her on to something else. I think it was a piece of basically like that clear plastic, and to get her off the tarp and the matt the phone match she was on, I cut that up and put her in that bag. Started a big fire upstairs.

1:13:32 Waited till it was about I don't know, one or two am, and started burning everything like plastic, tart, everything that she had touched. Took her purse out, started going through all that and everything. Almost everything got burned. With her key. I kept her makeup, and I kept the cell phone and the credit card, and there was a bunch of change in the bottom of the purse, like quarters and or stuff from the coffee sand. I think I just grabbed that threw it in with all the other change next to it, so it was a plowing on the top. Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking.

1:14:26 Like I say, it was probably overly paranoid, but I think came up technically that some of the cannuh. Just your braid hair. Not right away. What happened that, well, this is where you get the abridge burbion. Let's just say I thought her out and had a table made in the shed. At that point. Before I built the table, I had taken a really big piece of plastic probably I don't know, like fifteen by twenty, and had it stapled all the way up the walls and all the way across the floor. Before I did that, she was out of the shed. At that time, I had everything cleared out of it. I had a big bucket of hot water with a lot of bleach in it, and I had a grouse sponge and I cleaned up, like wiped everything down, like especially around where they had been blood on the floor. And then after I did that,

1:15:56 I put the screen up or plastic up the ball, stapled it up, and then I built the table. And uh. Then I uh brought her back in for where and uh tied ropes to her arms that morning and did the same thing pretty much had uh had some screws tied knots and room screwed to the wall so her arms were up above her head and liking picture.

1:16:52 How she sat her out? Was she still? Was she not richid? Oh, no, she was very sloppy. What'd you do? Well, I wouldn't tell you. It was part experian will find out anyway, So. Why wouldn't you tell us?

1:17:33 I told you this stuff is private. There's too many people in here. But I had sex with her her corpse and yeah, she was. For m. And uh then it was by then it was getting late in the morning, and I remember it was I guess I lost track of time. Came out and knocked on the door of the shed and I said, yeap, go back outside to YouTube. And because she was I mean at that point, anytime I opened the door, she was like right there. So anytime I came in and out of the shed and might kind of slip out thut opening the door very much. And so yeah, I just left her there after that after there went aside, Uh boy, after that, see that would have been uh

1:19:06 what did we say? The nineteenth? Monday was the nineteenth, So that would have made it twentyth next Tuesday, Yeah, Tuesday, that would be in the twentieth. Yeah, actually at the time, oh I, so Tuesday would have been the twenty first. Soda was getting back the next day. So I remember thinking I had a lot to do and not really hadn't really figured out how I was gonna pull it off. So that next night, Tuesday night, most of most of Tuesday, I was out trying to get the stuff together that I was gonna mean. I was looking for uh, newspapers.

1:19:57 I was looking for Lloyd camera, which is incredibly hard to find nowadays, and bought some paper computer paper up to a bunch of three stores. I was looking for a typewriter. I don't remember exactly how much of that I think maybe that first day. I think Tuesday, I think I had found the typewriter. I think I had found I couldn't I couldn't find cooleroid cameras anywhere. I finally did a search online and found them at Target, but by then I was already out of school, so I ran down to Target with her and just ran in the store and grabbed that, and they didn't have any film for the Polaroid camera I got there, so I went back to the house and went online and supposedly they had it up in Moscilla. By this time, I was realizing that I wasn't going to get everything done by the time she got back, and so I was just trying to get everything together. Did you go

1:21:27 to a sell and get the film? I went that night, yeah, the twenty first, and the night before came yep. Yeah. I waited till a sleep, make sure shut herself on there by her pen, and I took off. Went up to Watsila anymore and wants Yeah, Target and Mozilla. When there parking lot, there was nobody there. I thought they were closed, but they were opened, and they went in and got back of the film and went out and got into the car and decided since I was up there, I was gonna go look for the lake. But it was really dark, and I drove. I don't know I'd read the map wrong or something, because I ended up way up on the other side of Palmer and didn't realize that it was right there by the by the highway, So I didn't actually find the lake that time. I was just I was also just driver. Did you try to find it? I wasn't trying that hard. I was just looking for the sign.

1:22:36 I don't know. I was thinking that if I saw the sign, I was gonna stop and just walk down to it and take a look around. See how many people were had been using it. Did you use your phone or anything to try to get on the internet to try to find the lake? I may have. Yeah, I let you mention it. You did three times. Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard to read map quest on that little screen. Yeah. No, I wasn't. I don't know, I was. I was mostly just thinking about stuff I was. I ended up way up on either side of Palmer and kind of lost track of time, and then I just decided it was getting too late and I needed to get back, so I just the roads were really bad.

1:23:27 I remember that there was black ice that day, so on the way up it wasn't too bad because of all the Russia Hour traffic could take it off. But on the way back, I don't think I could go above like slow or forty five. It was slick. And that was a nice car. And oh also on that day. Earlier that day, I had been in fred Meyers I think camera and that's where I got that sled, big sled, I think. I Also, I don't know, I could be wrong with my tapes on that stuff. Maybe I didn't get some of it to left. I just seems like I used her car to pick it up. I used her car to pick up the sled. And there's some I got two of those big totes from home depot and it seems like I could use her card up to another kid. Anyway, I uh had pretty much all the stuff then. I can't remember when I got the typewriter.

1:24:49 It seems like that was the last thing I was trying to find. She got back and picked her up in the airport of thing. I don't remember what time she went on something. It was late or something. And yeah, after that was a business as usual for a couple of days. I had some work stuff to do. I was trying to work around schedule. I don't remember if she went back to work right away or not. I just remember that I wasn't going to do anything in the shed until she was either at work or off somewhere with her friends at night, because sometimes she when I'm out there working, she'll come out pound them on the door. Ever since she found my little grow operation, she you know, yeah, things weren't so good between us after that. So so, yeah, I was waiting for her to get back into her schedule, and I think, oh, I don't remember. It seems like I did this once she was she was still gone. But yeah, so anyway, irrelevant,

1:26:27 I already had. I went into Walmart at some point and bought a much more makeup similar to the colors that she had in her purse, and I got some fishing line. I bought some needles, a newspaper. The newspaper I ended up finding in the dumpster behind cars in a big recycling dumpster and found out whole stack papers like chronological order from about the sixth to the whenever I got back nineteenth or twentieth or something.

1:27:14 Why did you pick up thirteenth. Because I wasn't at Anchorage on thirteenth. And yeah, so once I had all that stuff, I really can't remember. It seems like it was gone. Maybe she was out of town with friends or something. But I know it took me all night to do it, to do that all night to get the makeup done, and she was still on the table, but you know, obviously she didn't look as good as when I first thought her out.

1:28:04 So yeah, I have a lot of work to do, and probably I don't know, two three hours I worked on her during the link up and trying to figure out how it's gonna position things, trying to make it look like, uh she was still wise and uh the biggest problem I had was with her face. I could get the mankup to work, but I don't, you know, her face was slack, So by then it was already getting to be mourning, seems like. So that's when I kind of gave up on on like the mouth and stuff.

1:29:10 I just uh decided to tape it, and I taped it so that so that it looked like her face had some texture too, I guess. And then I was still having problems with uh her eyes m or her forehead, you know, cause there was no expression. And tried super glue that didn't work, and so I took the needles that I had had a big uh curved needle, get what they call it. But and then I had that ten pound test fishing line, and I uh so uh took the needle and went down through herr uh brow like right between her eyebrows, down up uh along her nose cartilage, under the skin, and came out and then went back up and along the same path and did it again, and then pulled the tight to make it look like she was squeezing her eyes shut. And then

1:30:41 I took a test picture just to kind of see what it was gonna look like. Kay put a little more makeup on after that. I already had her hair braided at that point. And where did you put make a cup on it? Makeup? I used, like what was left over, I mean, wear on her everywhere. I had to put foundation, Like every part you see in that picture has foundation on two or three different kinds. Why did you do that? Well, she didn't looked good. I mean her skin, you could see it start to see the blood and under the skin and the uh brits some bruising, and I mean she was still in good shape, but you know, she definitely didn't work alive. And so yeah, it took me a long time. I think I used two or three tubes of foundation, and then after that I had to go over it with a couple other colors in different areas, cause I mean, at first it just looked like she was painted. I had to add in some red and I don't know, different stuff, different places.

1:32:07 It took. It was a it was a while. It was like, I don't know, between three and five hours, and then h had, you know, like the face makeup that I was took a while two and and then I took I don't know, it took me about It was hard to take the picture because the polaroid I had only gives a print out of about two by two and a half inches or something, and so I think I took about five or six pictures before I finally had one that only showed what I wanted.

1:32:53 Did you cut the corner off? Yeah, well I caught the edges off the whole photograph. At first, I was thinking give 'em the polaroid and have the note separate, and then I decided that it would be less. It would be harder for you to figure out if I scanned the picture with the printer, not through the computer, but just with the scanner onto the paper. That way, you probably wouldn't know for sure that it was a polaroid, and so yeah, that's what I did. And then after I remember when I decided to do it that way, I was thinking, well, hell, if I was gonna do this, I could have easier ways I could have done it, or they're running all over the town for a polaroid. But yeah, so I I just decided to do it that way.

1:33:55 Did you cut the corner off because it showed the mark. In your arm? Well, it wasn't so much the brand that was showing, but I have some moles on my arm, and I was you know, I looked at it pretty carefully, and I, yeah, I guess I was just thinking that it might show something I was. I was thinking, keep the minimum amount of my arm in there and still get the message acrossed. Yeah. So then.

1:34:38 Once I had all the pictures, I saved out the best one and then everything except for her and I went into another garbage bag. There was a lot of other stuff out there. There was like a pillow that I had under her at first. All that stuff I put in the garbage bag. And remember I was home for sure at that point, because I waited until it was really late one night and then burned all that stuff, like all the makeup. Then I didn't use some of them makeup, but that's all gone, Like it was in this old case she had out in the garage, and I she never uses it, so I knew she would miss it. So I just used it. And then once I was done with it, I threw little way everything that was in that shit that except for her in the table, and she was still on the table. She was still tied to the wall, but everything else was out there. I went to that bag and got burned.

1:35:53 And then, yeah, why did you bring a mare make it more believable? I guess, well, well there, I mean, there is more to it, but yeah, that was don't me anything. Why did you go to all the trouble too to do this day the lot of park? Well it w put it this way. I mean, it's obvious why I did it. I did it. The bottom line was to get money out of it. But at the same time, not like I didn't even want to do it.

1:37:04 Why thirty thousand dollars I was. I was following the story when I was in New Orleans and then either my computer or the hotel computer, I don't remember, and I was amazed at how much money suddenly became involved. But the plan had always been. There was always the plan. That's why I had the debit card. That's why I got the number. That's why I had her phone. That's why that's the only things I kept. Did you need money at this time for some reason?

1:37:48 No? Oh, if I was out, i'd have work right now. So why did you go for the money? Why'd you want them? Cause I was bored with my work? You said that you you were, you were following the story while you were in New Orleans? What what? What did you think of it? What did you think of you know? His press release? The why are we guys? When we get into why, I mean we went, we went over to what you know? I just don't know where what else you need? He's covered a ransom note. I mean everything you need. I don't. I don't want to spit here all night talking about why, and I don't think.

1:38:31 It's we're a little bit of what we agreed to. Well, I mean that. I was following the story. I don't. Yeah, that's you asked about the money. That's why I mentioned that I was following the story. That's how the thirty thousand dollars idea came up. I always knew that I was gonna put something about money in the ransom note, partly because I was curious to see if it would happen. I was curious to see if see what would happen. Wasn't that risky to ask for money when on a debit card? Didn't think that was kind of risky. I didn't think so.

1:39:13 I didn't. You didn't think you would get traced from your ATM transactions? Now, how were you going to determine if anybody put money in the account? Anyway? Well, I. I wrote the ansom note. It was already home. Actually, they were already I think the day I wrote it, I want to say, was at work or something. It seems like she had friends either was coming into town or he was already there somewhere or something. And I remember that there was a lot going on. But there was one day that there was nobody around the house, and I brought the typewriter into the house and and it didn't take me that long. I mean, I opened that pack of computer paper I got and put it in the typewriter, and the thing worked fine, and typed up one draft the ransom note, stuck it in the printer feet tray hit copy with the picture in there.

1:40:21 As soon as I had done that, I pulled the well. I mean I had gloves on the whole time I was doing I had latex gloves on the whole time I was typing it. And you know, I never touched the paper or anything. She was a purposefully misspells of stuff in the ransom note. I didn't know. I was just typed. I you know, I wasn't really that concerned about the wording of it. I was I had an idea, like the message I wanted to get across. But what was with the desert? You said she scaped on Tutor, and that was true, almost scaped on Tutor. That was true, right, And then you said him once in the death.

1:41:04 That was. Calculation that I had in my head from the time the picture was taken to the time the ransom note was given was about ten days, and I guess I was thinking make it sound as if she had been sold as a sex slave, maybe somewhere in Mexico. It's about how long it would take to drive there from the thirteenth can get back to Anchorage if you were driving, So you just assumed that there would be money in the account or when you checked the first time on the twenty eight. Yeah, no, I mean I was.

1:41:53 Because you knew there was only five dollars in it. Five you checked it the night you got the car, and you neither were. No, there was only like ninety four cents in the right and I checked it. So what made you think there was gonna be money in an on the twenty eight. Because you'd had the ransom note for I knew. I. Oh, that was a crazy night, all right. So after I wrote the ransom note and had it in the bag, I had the bag dashed somewhere. I had it double bagged and two ESIP block bags. The one on the inside I had never touched. See how did that work? All right? So the morning, the morning that you got the text about the ransom note, really early in the morning, I got up before, like way before I normally do it, maybe six or seven o'clock, and drove out to Connor's Park and put it under that picture with the push pin, and then I went directly back to the house and the rest of the day was pretty much business as usual. I think that

1:43:24 was the day came and I know that what happened was I was out with friends that night. There were a bunch of people out for the fur RANDI thing, I said, I told him I didn't want to go, and so I was designated driver that night. I was. I was thinking that was kind of perfect because I was going to be all over town anyway, so I went they were humpies. Then I was going to wait a couple of days before sending the text, just to make sure all my tracks were walked over out at Corner's Park. But I figured they I mean, it's a busy park, So I figured by that evening it would be.

1:44:21 Fine, and we weren't afraid somebody was gonna find it. Kind of incidentally, you. Know, just to kind of well that I was that that's I didn't want to send in the text too soon because I had used this card to planet and it wasn't snowing much that day, so I knew that there were probably I mean, I knew they were going to be her tire tracks. I wasn't worried about my shoeprints because I threw those shoes away, but yeah, I was worried someone might find it. I was worried it might fall out or something, so I wanted to send the text pretty soon. And then it just worked out that that I ended up not drinking or anything with anybody, and they were at humpies and so or No, they didn't, I don't know. I don't remember where they started out.

1:45:15 I remember it was funny the way it worked out, though, because I dropped them off somewhere and they were out partying for a while, and oh, I know what happened. I drew out to all the way to the east side, to his friend's house or to our friend's house over there, and dropped him off because he didn't have a car while he was here. I dropped him off first to stopped in Uh yeah, I think I think we were in star We stopped at the cars right there on Boniface and and he stopped. He went in and got a case of beer, and I had the I had the cell phone on me, and so the whole time I was dropping dropping him off, I was trying to think of a good place to send the text from.

1:46:19 And so I dropped him off at his friend's house and went back out to the car's parking lot to one of the back corners and turned her phone on and sent the text, looked at a few of the messages, sent the text, and then took the phone battery out right away and headed home. Why did she send the text to her boyfriend's number? Why not her father's num versus her father was the one that kind of had control of the money.

1:47:00 I didn't think that fart through really well, because after the first time I checked the account, I was thinking that they probably never even got the text. I was thinking it was probably intercepted by the police, because the police probably had that phone, and that's not what I wanted. I wanted everybody when you were, to know about the ransom demand. I didn't want it to be in the police in's hands. So yeah, I didn't think I was originally thinking I should. I was originally thinking when I sent the text, I was going to send a group text every one of her contacts saying message, But I don't know. There were a lot of people out and around the car when I was texting, and I was paranoid.

1:47:56 I didn't want to be there for too long, so I just sent it to that one number. Figured i'd wait and see what happened. So I turned it off and headed home. And I was home for I don't remember what I was doing. I was home for a while and got curious and decided to go out for a little drive and see what was happening. And so I headed down Wisconsin Street to Spernard and drove out to Spinnard and drove past Connor's Park. And I knew right away that I wasn't sure at that point that the police had intercepted the message, but I was an idea of just because of like it looked super hush hush.

1:48:49 There was like a big crime scene van there and there was a couple of patrol cars, but there were no lights and there was no you know, I knew what I knew right away that that message had got through. I didn't slow down a stop or anything. I just drove kept driving down whatever road that is, like it's a chance to Jewel Lake or whatever. And uh, when I got down to Raspberry Road, I called told her that I was that I hadn't been drinking or anything, and that it asked her if she needed to ride, and yeah, and then there was a party going over on going on over I was I guess they were playing poker or something. So yeah, then I went and picked up and her friend was with her was there, and so I picked them up at Humpies and gave them a ride over to this house stuck. Yeah, and then the should call the cab and I called him to cancel his cab because I was gonna give him my way back to our police. You've spent the night there, and yeah, that was pretty much it. After that, I just waited. I wasn't gonna check the account right away

1:50:20 because I still you know, she was still out in the shed. H My thought was that I should definitely get rid of some more evidence before I won't get anything else. And so I don't remember. Yeah, I. Mean I already told you about all this part, Like what happened after this, there was a she was out in the shed, and you know, she starting to smell a little bit, so I am I wanted to keep her.

1:51:10 I didn't want to do it right then. That's why I got the two totes. I was thinking I could put her out in the backyard and bury her in the snow bank and finished up later. Then I just decided it was better just to do it, get it done, and figure out some excuse as to know what I was doing for three days. And yeah, so I took her off, rolled her off the table, and took the table apart, cut up the plilot that it was made out of, and burned that, and then had a big rolling toe wasn't very deep, about five or six inches teep, and and put her in that. And that's what I cut her up in What did she used to cut her up? Did she find the knife? The yellow? That's mostly what I used. I took the wire. I already had the wire. I use the wire like a tourniquet to keep the blood to the minimum, and wrapped it around both sides of everywhere where I planned to cut,

1:52:41 and had everything all wired up, and then uh made the cuts, only took pain a few minutes, and trickle bagged everything and there wasn't really a mess in the shed at all. I remember thinking that I was going to have to burn the toe that I cut her up, and all the vis screen and everything. But then I just decided that even if someone founded the landfill, it didn't really look like anything but trash. So yeah, so I took all that stuff and I had some big clear fifty five. They were really big trash bags that I got at home depot and I started triple backed her and blacked blast to darted back. Two different bundles put the corner of the shed, and then they started tearing down and all the this screen tore down, all the spring stuffed it in, stuffed in the the big clear bag. And then I had a bunch of other stuff that I had used to thaw out in the garage that I didn't think was looked that bad, So I decided just to throw that stuff away too, So I bagged all that stuff up and put it all out in the trailer. And then she, Yeah, she sat

1:54:20 out there for a few days, two or three days. That was only stand whiles. And yeah, I think at that point, I yeah, because while there I was actually building the ice hut in the garage. I had it all set up cut What was. It because I can't hear that, like, tell me about was it like a wooden structure or what was it? I had bought a tarp at Walmart. It was brown on one side, silver on the other, I think it was.

1:55:14 It was a nine x twelve tar and the tent poles were from a tent that we had out in the shed. Old. Uh, it was a big tent, like I said, five or six person tent, and I just designed the the ice had around the size of the tart. And the. Height of the poles, and just made the wooden pieces to hold it all together. And so when I took everything out to the lake, all I had to have to put it together was my cordless drill had a big one inch bitt in it to drill holes into the ice for the legs, and then I had a fill up spit to screw on a couple of cross braces for the roof portion. And once I had the frame, i'd only tatoka I don't know, five or ten minutes or on it, and the dark was just held on with like the staples up the top and then the bunge cord at the bottom and a couple of the bungee quirks to hold the roof burn up. And yeah, once I had all the ice fishing stuff set up, I had the weights cut off. I had to cut them apart with the angle grinder. They had like a thick stainless cable that holds them together, and cut those

1:56:46 up into the number of pieces that I thought I would need, and loaded all that stuff in the toe, loaded in the wooden parts, took the of the ice fishing hut, and I think I went up to the lake the first time the day after left. I remember I was in the office and I was looking at lakes. He works for a fishing games, so I was actually asking him about lakes around the area because I still had decided for sure. I didn't really want to do the Matt news School Lake because it was so small. I wanted to do a really big lake, but they were all quite a ways further north, and I knew I was going to have to make I didn't want to take everything up in one trip because I knew I couldn't get it all out on the lake in one trip, and I didn't want to leave it in my truck. So I just decided on matt Newschool Lake because I knew I was going to have to go up there.

1:57:54 Three times, three times once by the tent t first time. I had the lead weights and a snowshovel with my chainsaw, some of the like the wooden pieces for the for the ice hut, and had that big steel bar, and I think I had my fishing stuff with me that day too, just for appearances, But I wasn't planning on fishing the first day, and I went up pretty late.

1:58:39 It was pretty late in the day of the first day. I went up cause I know I wasn't gonna take very long, and yeah, chainsaws would not keep it kept dying on. It took me forever to cut the hole, and I finally just finished it with the with the bar and both with the dimensions of the hole, he could guess it's about thirteen by twenty. I made it big enough that well, I knew what size it had to be, but I also was making it big enough because I didn't know how thick the ice was. Now thick was it? It was about twenty inches thick when I was there, But in the past I've gone ice fishing and the ice had been four or five feet thick.

1:59:31 So I was thinking I had to make it big enough that I could fit the whole chainsaw down inside the hole to keep kind of because the chainsaw only has a sixteen inch bar. Unfortunately it didn't. I didn't have to go through that much chace. But yeah, so once the hole was cut, it was actually pretty easy considering how bad the chainsaw was running there was another guy fishing out there. He kept looking at it kind of funny. And why do you say, cause it was? Well, he had an ice drill right there, So I don't know. It's not very common way to go ice fishing.

2:00:12 Most people just have the auger. So I think she was you are in the valley though, yeah, Halloween. So I don't know. You just cutting a old should you have the cut it? You pished sections or fully ice up or just get it all. I just cut it. I just cut out the whole square and then I took the Once I had the perimeter of the hole cut out that big heavy bar, I just hit it like once or twice in the middle and it started coming out big chunks. So I I bottomed out the first cuts I made around it, and then cut it a few more times, stuck the chin saw down there and cut a few more. So you get some chunks outside rest pushed under or no, I I got them all out. I don't know for sure though, because I once I found out, I think the chainsaw. I went to do the second cuts, and I think the chainsaw went through so once I you know, once the chainsaw went through the ice, the hole filled up with water.

2:01:16 So I scrapped the chainsaw and just went to the bar and it only took me, I don't know, five or ten minutes to finish the boat with the bar. And then once I had had the ice knocked out, I used that big shovel to scoop out all the chunks of ice and shoveled off the whole area down to the ice, and took the weights out of the out of the toads and buried them under the snow piles and took some twine. I had about one hundred feet of twine lent me on stuff that in there, and I tied two of the weights to that and checked to see how deep the water was. It was supposed to be like sixty to eighty feet deep, but I think it ended up only again about forty feet deep.

2:02:15 But I figured that was deep enough, so I so yeah, After I checked that, I just packed everything back up and buried the cover the hole, buried it with snow, and then loaded the sled back up and left. I had a parent teacher conference that day, didn't make it, just scheduled for the mixter. Did she did you call the school to let him know you were going to be later, could yeah, I think I called him. I didn't have my phone battery for the whole time I was up the lake, but I had, I think once I got to Eagle River that first I put my phone battery back in and call her teacher to let him know that I got the message but that I wasn't gonna make it in time, and said that was no problem, that I could reschedule for the next day.

2:03:14 So the next day, I left earlier, took the first package up, and then just kind of guesstimated the time and left. I don't know what time I left, maybe two o'clock. Made it back to it to Anchorage to do the teacher conference soon, and. He said that there might have been some blood on the ice. What was that prom if you had triple bagged? Well, when she was triple bagged, and I had bailing wire wrapped around the bags to keep them closed. So when I was getting ready to put the weights on, I took my knife, I mean it was that big black folding one, and I cut open the bags. They were laid flat on the ice inside the ice hut.

2:04:22 I cut open the bag all the way down and kind of laid it out. I was trying to keep everything as much in the bag as I could, so I would grab the weights and wire it to each piece and then I would drop it into the hole. But it wasn't so much a problem with the first day because the you know, like it was all the smaller pieces. But the next day when I did the torso, there was quite a bit of blood in the bags and it was pretty hebby once I had the weights on it. So when I went to drop it in the hole, I kind of fell a little bit, and then a bunch of water out of the hole like splashed up all around.

2:05:11 So there was you know, it looked like blood, right, like wet every wet everything that was frozen kind of thing. Or Yeah, it just spread out for the whole, through the whole inside of the ice shack. I mean, it wasn't obviously blood, but it definitely wasn't clear water either, right tail that it had something in it. So I. I think I tried to shovel most of that up and buried it in the snow bank nearby, and and then I loaded, you know, each day with the backs that I had used and took them back to the house and burned them right away. Did you have a fire out there at all with the lake? Yeah? What'd you burn out there? A scraps from my business? There was heat, yeah, I think, yeah, did you burn that?

2:06:17 I didn't burn it out there? I don't think. No, I didn't, cause it was it was a big piece supply. It was about sixteen by thirty or something like that. It was big enough to cover the hole all the way around. And I know on my way back the last day, I put it underneath the toat on the bottom of the sled. So if it wasn't there, then that means I cut it up with the skill song in the backyard and burned it in the fireplace. Is there a reason you did this over two days as a post station. Yeah. I didn't want to leave. I wanted to do it in one, but I didn't want to leave half of her in the truck while I was down on the lake. And I didn't want to be seen making trips back and forth to the ice hut because there were houses there and stuff. So yeah, I actually thought about leaving the ice hut things set up for the first day, but I didn't want people to get curious to walk out there and check it out.

2:07:37 So I just decided to take it down and set it up at the next day. Was there any reason, any like meth into the order that you took the body parts out? You said, the first day you took the smaller parts out, and the second day was the tour stout, just to kind of see how it went with the smaller stuff before you took the torso. Because the torso was quite a bit heavier and bigger, and and so the first day, I I think I had some extra firewood, few extra things that I was thinking I'd leave out there, and then I'd have more room the next day. And that's the way. That's why I did it that one.

2:08:27 And you said, the first day you took the smaller pieces out, just the four lombs. Did you cut the four lombs into any pieces or was it four in Townland? Well, it was. Her arms were bound together into one bundle, and the legs were separate, and her head was separate, so it was four pieces. And then you went the one day you went to the parent teacher conference after you had to up the power of your body. Yeah, that was the first day. How did you stay calmly up to go do that. I didn't really think about it. I mean the first day, I like I say, dumping the body took me about five or ten minutes. Once the ice shack was setup, I did that first thing and rolled all the bags up and kind of stuffed them in the toad at the bottom in case fishing game came out to check on me or whatever. And then once I had done that, I set up my chair and started a fire and started fishing. And I fished out there for I don't know, quite a while, two or three hours the first day.

2:09:43 And. Then the second was the second day when you had the student. No, that was that day, the first day, the first day, the day I missed. It was the day I went to cut the hole. I think, I think, I don't know that seems what it was like. What it was the conference or was it just a parent teacher. No, she was at taekwondo. She goes to taekwondo every day after well pretty much every day after school. And it was actually for her. It wasn't even really a parent teacher conference. It was. Parent teacher conference I had done over the phone as a teacher because it was scheduled for fifteenth, but I didn't get back. I had to change my plane tickets, so I didn't get back until the eighteenth, And so our teacher and I just talked on the phone. We did the conference of the phone. The meeting that I had was with the ignite teacher. They were putting in like a fast track program of.

2:10:48 Some sort at the school, like a gifting program. Yeah, so they wanted to talk to me about that and just let me know what it was about. Yeah, it was fun talk to or contact to you whatever. Out on the aft there partish gangy worse EXPI no, no, with the exception of that first day when I cut the hole, I didn't see anybody I saw. It was maybe the first I don't remember first day or second day when I took the body out. I remember I came back up the hill after I was done fishing.

2:11:33 And on one of those days there was a car there in the parking lot with my truck. But I could tell by the tracks that they had just gone like a cross country skiing. It would like on the trail there wed a dog with them or something and they so, yeah, they never even came down by the lake. They probably didn't even see me on the lake. Things that they went on the trail that looked like it kind of ran parallel to the Glint Highway. Something to be fishing, I mean, was that to catch fish that you can cover your behavior or was there another reason for fish? No, I just wanted to go fishing. Sounds weird, but that's the first Well you sound like you were very calm meet and you were able to fish and then go to meet with teacher and yeah, oh I want some No, I was. I was more calm than than I had been the whole time, because especially on the on the last day I went fishing, because at that point there was virtunately nothing left. It was, you know, I was pretty much done and I had to get back to work anyway. So yeah, talking to some clients some stuff. Would you do a fishing thought? Heaving for dinner? Guy?

2:13:07 Just done? Are you done? I mean there's a lot more. I understand what you're saying that there's a lot more. We'd like to know. We agree. Well, that was pretty much it. I mean, after that was done, that was what was that? What would I say? Oh, that was after I guess the note. So by then it was through twenty eight or no, twenty eight was the first day it was the carve so and that was just a random you just decided to eat it that day. They argue there was going to be much Oh I was gonna check. I figured it had been four days, so if there was going to be money and it would be in there.

2:13:54 And did you ever try to reach out to. Any other ever trying to reach out to anybody else in the search team or anything like that, you know, and like I just the ransom, no door, any kind of communication to the Cony family. At all, with the exception of that text message. You know. Okay, what about the blogs and what you say? I think I posted maybe one or two comments on A eight and article, but I I mean I used to post on there all the time. But I don't were they the ones that were on They would think it was like DT or DO or Katy what are they?

2:14:35 KTB A blog? Was it? I don't remember. I thought it was on A. I thought it was on AD. And do you remember what you said? I think the the only comment I remember making was that they didn't have any information up on crime stoppers and that the FBI hadn't added. Her to. The missing person's no'm missing person's database. You. I can't see this in quota right here. I'm nothing surprised for him anymore. Let me see that. Yeah, that did you write that? It doesn't look familiar. Those words are not nervous. The whole thing right here, h.

2:15:54 Mm hmm. I don't think I said that. It doesn't even sound like something I would write. I don't know the whole I don't. Maybe I did. I don't. What time of day was a posted that might shed some line on it. I think this was March third to two nineteen am, two nineteen am. Yeah, that's possibly me, submitted by Israel. Well, I guess good. Yeah, somebody fixed it for us. Yeah.

2:16:36 And then there was a second post by Israel dated March fifth, six forty five am. What did I respond? What was the article that I was responded? The one on March fifth? It was a story caption new Reward in Corny to Sipia space. And then the post reads, I really don't know what to sett let's just being ridiculous, And that's what happens when you have a public to him all work and maybe it's more stupid or worse cause they are alrighty. Y, you not recall that at all? Sure it's not by another Israel. What do you think?

2:17:19 That's what I think? I don't doesn't sound like something over yet should Uh? Well, there was there was one that was clear had the three best goin in the the the plastic. Uh. The rest were just the big black contractor in effects and most of 'em most of them had There wasn't really much in there related to this whole thing. Uh. Well, there's the typewriter, but the almost everything is burned.

2:18:03 The ashes are in one of the bags with some other stuff that's not ratting. Ill. I do have one more question, and if it doesn't pertain to the codeing investigation specifically, you would just tell me, you know, yes, right now, the trip to Clee Burn and getting stuck. In the mud, Does that have anything to do with this and not the cone of investigation? But well, is any little love hub did you? Did you save anything from Samantha like a souvenir? No, none of her belongings, well aside from the the ATM card and her phone.

2:18:56 The phone I. Was actually going to go away or burn until the first time I checked the account saw that there was only five thousand dollars in it. Then I kind of had a new plan and I had to take the form texas, were you gonna ask for more money? I was gonna send a group text and to everyone into contact with to say it was like a last warning and that the price had gone up by Tim Grantant and it was the last ever n And then I was gonna burn the phone. What were you using the money for? I didn't really get out that much money.

2:19:45 I don't remember how much, but. About twenty five hundred. Yeah, I honestly like the whole I I I did use it a couple of times. Anchorage pulled out money at see the first time I checked it. I was gonna use it. I was gonna pull out money at that bank with somebody pulled up behind me, and they were I assumed they were waiting to Uesday atm. They had their headlights right on me. So I kind of got annoyed. And I had only checked the balance. I think I had tried. I was also annoyed that it would only let me take out five hundred because I don't know, So I just walked away after I had checked the balance of that bank. I just walked away because they were dark people sent there.

2:20:45 And then. Was it two transactions that night. One just before midnight and one just after movement born it? Well anyway, it's I mean, that was my thinking was it was gonna get out the morning four and after. I know the first time I got it out was uh Dnalely I think there on Northern Leyan's or Minnesota. And you know, second time I actually got money out with it was at alask Usa, but I don't remember if it was the same date or all or the same time.

2:21:29 Any specific reason why you chose those ATMs? No, No, I was gonna. I mean eventually I was planning to use pretty much all the ATMs in town. I was just spreading in the round. I guess. How to start. Learned it? Do you reckon else you wanna tell us? Oh, that's that's pretty much the way of saying you made reference to some other things that you weren't go work for. Yeah, I'm not going to all of that stuff. Is that something you wanna talk about a different I don't know that.

2:22:24 I mean I will, but it's not like I say, it's on my terms and it's not really. It's just more detailed what you already have. Everything I've told you are things that you would've found out or the Emmy would have found out her whatever she hasn't been down there, not loans without telling any details about there, other things that you'd like to throw schoh Kevin, we s we went over this. Ye. No, that's I mean, that's it. That's the whole story.