The Spokane Serial Killer | Douglas Perry's Reign of Terror

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast. Or I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey, y'all, Kelly Jennings here back for an other episode of Unspeakable, and coming to you fresh out of the hospital because I pulled an epic freak your students out and got a major migraine that dropped me down to my knees and then I looked like I was having a stroke. My hands drew up, and ambulance had to come get me. So, hey, go big or go home. But y'all, I'm fine, It's okay. I'm apparently just unable to handle the major migraines or whatever. But uh, I'm getting better. And I said, hey, I still got a record for my people, so here I am, and I wanted to tell y'all that I was so thankful y'all shared my videos to win that merch and my Cecilia won and she even sent me an

1:40 unboxing video of what all the things that she got from me, and so I'm going to post that online. Y'all be looking for that. And I thought she did a really cute job. And her son, who did not want to say hello to me on video, I'm saying hello to you, son, so what's up? But I thought it was really cute that she did that. So I'm a post at thanksgirl so much. I also want to tell you this. On December second, I'm going to be a special guest at the North Park Christmas Fest thing that they've got going on there. So if you want to come out and say hello and get some merch in person, take some pictures, put that on your calendar. I'll have more information that i'll release later, but December second, that's where I'll be in Denim Springs at North Park. I'll have a tent and all that good stuff. And also something cool that I'm doing is Patreon members. This is going to be a special members only thing, but I'm going to have some new glasses that I'm posting for members only that you can get for a limited time, So go look for that whenever you hear this drop, and if it's not there when you go look, it'll be there this week. So hanging there with me. I'm a busy lady, right, But I've got some shout outs I want to do before I get started on this episode, which is frickin Whack, And I love this episode because it's there's some weird people out there and I found one of them. So before I start, though, my new Vigilanti member, Ms. Chassity Jennings. Hega, are we like cousins? Are you my cousin? Is that cousin Jenning's? I don't know, but hey, girl, thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it. I'm waving to you in the camera. And then I also have a new Crime Family member, Miss Amy Owens. What up?

3:06 Miss Amy? Thank y'all so much for joining, and you're gonna have access to a whole lot of extras. Also, oh my god, I just almost rip the microphone down. Jimithy, don't fire me. Damn did y'all hear that? Sorry about that? Uh, I've been posting a whole lot more on patron because I want to get people to go check it out on that site. They also have a free membership. Now that's an opportunity for people who aren't in a position to join as a paying member. But I'll have some free Uh there's some free stuff that'll be on there that you don't have to be a paying a paying member to look at. So go on there, go become a free member if you want to. And it's limited. Now, it's not gonna have everything, but I'd love for you to join in on that. And you can see I put some of the Angola Rodeo videos on there, and I've got some more i'm gonna load to I'm just kind of this week was rough for me, and I'm getting I'm kind of slow this week, but I'm catching up. So this story, though, was one is one of the ones that I found not very much kind of makes me go really, but this one did, so that's why I wanted to share this one this week. But so this story is gonna begin in nineteen ninety in Spokene County, Washington, and I'm gonna tell you some weird shit's gonna go down in this episode. So this one isn't exactly small kid friendly, not that many of them episodes are, but just to be fair, give you that warning before we get into this one. This one, this one takes some twists and turns. Now. I know that morality has a place in society, okay, And I'm not gonna say that it doesn't obviously. You know, there's certain ways that we as a collective believe

4:36 that society should should go in the way that we should act. But of anyone you may listen to in podcasting, you should know this, probably if you've picked up on it. But I'm probably more on the conservative side of how I view the order of the world. In that regard, I am guilty of feeling aggravated at people whose lives, you know, they they live lives that don't necessarily coincide with the acceptable norm, such as you know, drug addicts and prostitutes and strippers. And I admit that, Okay, I'm guilty of feeling aggravated by those people when you pull up at a red light and they're begging for money and I'm just staring at him, going you just want to go buy dope, you know, and listen I own that, all right, I absolutely own that. And I know someone's probably going, I thought you loved Jesus. I do love Jesus. That doesn't mean I'm perfect. I get aggravated. However, I also believe that everyone matters, and I firmly stand I will stand and die on that hill that everybody matters, regardless of you know, how they live their lives. And I know my life isn't your life, and that my experiences have molded me as your experiences have molded you. And so many people reach out to me and tell me, oh my god, you told this story, and I relate to this. You know, I was abused as a child, or I was raped, or I was this or that, and I'm thinking, God, I've never been through that. And we're so you know, we're so so molded by the experiences that make us who we are. That said, if we don't care about what happens to the least of us, then eventually we're

6:09 not going to care what happens to any of us. And this case that I'm going to tell you about is going to involve victims that may be considered on the bottom of the social totem pole and I'm not saying that they don't matter. I'm just saying that as a society, as a collective, we tend to look at them kind of look down at the way that they live their lives. But they matter. And that's why this case is so important. And it makes me even sadder when I'm looking at their circumstances because I'm educated enough to know that situations are not always black and white, and we all will eventually have that capacity to fall. It just takes one thing to turn our lives upside down, and people who are on top of the world today can be on the bottom and at the lowest of the low tomorrow.

6:58 None of us are above that, and this to me means that we need to work even harder to solve these cases. You know, people may turn their head and pretend that if you live a life of low morality, that your life is somehow not as important in that you may bear some culpability in your demise. Well maybe that's true in some situations. Okay, you know you live by the sword, you die by the sword. You know people you get killed during drug deals, I'm guilty of going Well, if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes, right, But that doesn't mean that people are acceptable prey. You know, it doesn't matter what you're doing in your lifetime. I don't believe that you deserve to be prey to somebody else. These people still deserve to live their lives and not have their life snuffed out by someone who thought them unworthy. No one gets to make that choice for somebody else. So who exactly are these people that I'm talking about?

7:55 Well, I'm going to start with twenty six year old Yolanda Sap. Now, like I said, Yolanda was twenty six years old, and she was the mother to a very young daughter that she named Natasha, and she also had a sister named Marika Marika Sap. Now, I'm gonna be just completely honest with y'all. Okay, there's no show or no what's the word I'm looking for. There's no cinematic thing here where I'm not going to tell you the truth. I spent hours looking for information on Yolanda, and then I realized this is part of the story that has to be told. It pains me that my research didn't result in more. It's sick that all I could find about Yolanda's sap was that she was a prostitute who was found dead alongside the Spokane River on February twenty second, nineteen ninety. I literally kicked back in my chair and I'm like, my god, I want to know who Yolanda was. And all the media would tell me was she was a prostitute. Well, I'm sorry, that's not all Yolanda was. That's not all that she could have been. So who was she? Like? Tell me more, y'all? I went everywhere online that I could think and could not find information about her. Isn't there more to her? Where is the media's explanation of her other than her quote unquote profession as a sex worker?

9:20 You know? Is that all that mattered in this story? And the answer is no. And I'm almost like appalled. I didn't even know this woman, but that's all the media can tell me about her. Well, no, that's to grab a headline, you know. Oh, look at this immoral woman who ended up getting killed. But what No, And I can't allow that to be all that I say about her. So I'm going to try my best to give her the dignity that she deserves. And I did. I'm going to tell you I took some liberties here, and I hope that you'll forgive me, but I refuse to reduce her life to she was a prostitute. This is what I do know. She was a mother who gave birth to a baby girl, and she lovingly named her Natasha. And why that name. I don't know why did she name her Natasha, but I want to maybe she just thought it was a lovely name, or maybe she went to school with someone named Natasha and that person touched her life, and she said, I'm gonna name my daughter that. While I never knew her, okay, I know that she was also a sister to Marika Sap and she was someone's beautiful daughter. And I'm not just saying that this was a beautiful woman. She was on hard times, no doubt, but she was a beautiful woman. I'm gonna tell you I didn't know her, but I feel like she was just a lost soul. And I did some what i'm gonna call forward research on her, and I think I'm accurate in this information. I'm gonna avoid names for privacy reasons in case I'm not one hundred percent correct in how I displayed this, but this is what I saw.

10:52 If she were alive today, I'm pretty sure this is what Yolanda Sap would tell you about her life. Her sister Marika, who still lives in Washington, and Yolando would have traveled to Paris together this last summer. They would have been in awe of the artwork that they saw together. She would have loved to spend time with her niece, a precious child with braids and colorful little beads in her hair. And they would have cracked up, I'm telling you, cracked up at the picture I saw of her niece passed out on an airplane, little headphones on right, just catch cutting some z's on that airplane as they traveled. And she would have been so proud to know that her nephew graduated high school in twenty twenty three. He's a tall young man, he's handsome, and his family he made him so proud. And I can tell you this too, Her daughter Natasha would make her smile ear to ear. Y'all, what an amazingly beautiful woman that girl has become. And I'm not making this up. I want you to understand this, just me doing some research online through the Facebook Okay, yeah, I said the Facebook.

12:07 How you like that? My daughter cringes when I say that. And y'all her daughter grew up. She has lovely almond eyes, and she's got lighter skin, she had long hair, and she has children. Yolanda boo, you're a grandma. You are a grandma, Yolanda, And based on what I saw, you would have snuggled those kiddos and laughed at what their mama, Your daughter, Natasha says, were diva tendencies about your grandchildren. But unfortunately, on February twenty first, nineteen ninety, Yolanda's life was ended by someone who was able to disappear into the darkness, you know, a myth, a ghost, whatever you'd want to call him, and he would deny her her life, and he would deny her all that could have been.

12:54 During the last evening of her life, It's presumed that Yolanda was out working the street with some of her friends, and they were friends in that they all worked the area together looking for John's, as they're called to make a buck, right. And I'm sure most people know when I'm saying John's what I'm talking about. But John's are the men that access prostitutes. But Yolanda would come across a man that would take her up on her offer, but would turn violent and so violent that she would end up dead murdered. He would get off first, though, for lack of a better term, and then he would treat Yolanda like the peace of trash that he thought she was. The perpetrator would finish his sex act with Yolanda and then not allow her to get dressed. You're going to stay undressed. He would put a small caliber gun that he had hidden, and he would shoot her in the back. She would fall on impact, but she would die alone in that night and lying cold and still, with nothing on except her jewelry. She would remain lying there until her body was found the next day by the river beside her. The only thing to be found was a floral blanket that was stained with the perpetrator's seamen. Now, Yolanda was tough and she fought with her attacker, which we know because of what the coroner's report showed. She

14:30 had scrapes all on her forehead, and she even had them underneath her armpit. And I, y'all, I could see this just when I was reading the report. I could see her fighting for her life and trying to fend off this monster. And as she turned right to turn away from him because she's scared, he swiped at her and his nails were cut, you know, they cut underneath her armpit before he was able to completely overpower her. And upon further inspection, there wasn't just one bullet hole in her, but three. She was shot three times in her back with that small caliber weapon. Now, the medical examiner concluded that the bullets entered Yolanda's back and they exited through her front side. And I did some research on this, and y'all, I can't be one hundred percent certain. I mean, I wasn't there, but I went and read some articles written by people who survived similar gunshot wounds, whether they were in war or One guy said that he was actually shot by stray bullets in his house by an unknown assailant that was never caught. And based on what these people wrote in their writings, it seemed very consistent to me that the victims remained aware of what was happening for minutes and that averaged three to eight minutes. That means, Yolanda, Ya, you don't get shot like in the movies, you just drop and it's over.

15:52 You know, you suffer, You're scared, you know what's happening to you. I bet her life flashed before her eyes, and all of the poor choices that she made, she wished she hadn't, but she couldn't fix that. The point is, she suffered. She was good enough for sex, but not good enough to live afterwards, according to the actions of her killer. And she was also dumped with no regard for decency, humility, or even a proper burial. He thought of her as trash, and he proved that Natasha would suffer because she would never fully develop any memories of her mother. She was just too young. She was robbed of her mama, y'all. And I don't care if her mama had problems. I don't care if her mama struggled. You still love your mama. And Natasha didn't get that. The days would pass, and unfortunately, no one would be held accountable for the horrors experience by Yolanda that night. Some are gonna chalk it up to, well, don't be a prostitute if you don't want to be murdered. And you know, I kind of thought thought about that because I've been guilty of that when I was younger. Well, I mean, don't do that, it won't happen. You know. It brings up that song, y'all, y'all remember that song, then you might really know what it's like. Y'all Knowmber that song where you know it talks about if you it's really easy to say that people get shot and killed, but if you're the family left to look at them, then you might really know what it's like.

17:22 It's not that simple. Well, it kind of made me think and wonder about, you know, how we think about people and the choices that they make. And hell, I don't want to be murdered either. But I'll be damned if the National Center for Educational Statistics didn't just report, just report. From two thousand to twenty twenty one, there were two hundred and seventy six casualties in active shooter incidences at elementary and secondary school levels. So do I deserve to die? I mean I chose this profession, you know, put yourself in someone else's shoes. You don't deserve to die just because you're a prostitute. You know, you matter Anyway, Roughly a month later, there would be another murder that was eerily similar to Yolanda's. And even scarier to the murder is the proximity that the two women had to each other because they were friends, they knew each other. Yolanda and Nicki Lowe knew one another, and Nicki low would be the next victim that would be found, and she'd be found next to the same river that Yolanda was found.

18:37 So on March twenty fifth, nineteen ninety, thirty four year old Nicki Low's body was discovered at thirty two hundred block of East South Riverton underneath the Green Street Bridge. Now no, right, now, you're like, wait a minute. Wasn't there a killer that was killing women and dumping them? Yep, there was. This ain't gonna be that guy, though, But who was Nicky? I'm glad you asked. I had the same problem learning about Nicki as I did Yolanda. And it's just not right. I mean, this case has been covered for twenty something years and we don't know who these women were other than sex workers. Well, this is this is what I found on Nicki. Nicki was a white woman in her thirties thirty four to be exact, and she had long brown hair, and when looking at her, looking at her photos, her hair kind of had that frizz, that bigness about it that you would expect to see in movies from the late eighties early nineties. I call it the woffa when I the woof a doo when I was younger, I would say, oh, she got a woofa.

19:33 I don't know what that's about. It made it up. And NICKI, like most sex workers, was also a lost soul. She had a history of prostitution and drug abuse, and her family is not widely publicized, but I did find where her family had described her as a loving and kind woman. She was just troubled, and she did have a sister. Her sister's name was Jackie Gibford, who she spoke on her behalf and on behalf of the family, and she said that her sister was a loving and kind person who had a huge heart for animals. And it kind of made me think about those people that you see down and out walk in the streets and they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out, they don't have food, they don't have anything. They're filthy, but they got that dog and the dog has dog food, you know, it's like they love the animal more than themselves. And she had received a certificate in dog grooming and her goal, according to her sister, was she wanted to open a mobile dog grooming business. And this is a quote from her sister.

20:40 She said, she just got lost along the way. NICKI had dreams, NICKI had goals. NICKI was lost, and unfortunately she just wouldn't be found until it was too late. And this was sad to read to say that she was lost along way. So many people get lost along the way, y'all, and their value is no no less. Drug addiction touches most people's lives in one way or another, and unfortunately the outcomes are often similar. You just can't love someone into sobriety. And that's the beautiful thing about family to me, is that we choose to carry the best of people with us. The media seems to miss that that part of the story that's so important. Christy was kind. She was just lost and being lost in an addict is what would lead her into the hands of an animal who would take her life. She was last seen on March twenty fourth in the East Sprague area of Spokane, and she would never be seen alive again. Her body was found on the morning of March twenty fifth, nineteen ninety under that Green Street bridge. And it just makes me so angry as a woman. But she was purposefully position with her legs up on the guardrail and her back on the ground, so her back was laying flat. And then he picked up her legs and flipped them over a guardrail, and her pants were purposefully positioned

22:12 with it pulled down to her knees, with her you know, her genitals showing, and her top had been pulled up, exposing her breasts and her stomach. She had marks and bruising on the backside, which suggested that she had been drug and then positioned that way on the guardrail. And I mean, I think about it, like the one thing in life I don't want is my private part showing and my stomach showing, you know, just as a woman. I've had babies, i got stretch marks, I've got things I'm not you know, don't want people to see. And he did that to her. She had a single gunshot wound to her chest and the bullet was recovered. It was a twenty two caliber bullet. And the medical examiner concluded from the tears and the bloodstains on her clothing that she was normally clothed when she was shot, and that means that, you know, he put her in this position to humiliate and to degrade her. The markings and the bruising on her body occurred after her pants had been pulled down and her top pulled up, So he made a point to embarrass and humiliate her through this positioning, and he took his time, and he enjoyed every minute of it.

23:37 They would later find a wallet that contained her driver's license, but it was found in a dumpster on Sprague Avenue, and after they found it, the police searched that whole dumpster and they retained several other items that they were able to test. Now, remember, you know, this is the nineties, so the testing is not going to be like it is today. But even better was a fingerprint was lifted from a tube of lubricating jelly found in that same dumpster, and they were able to get that print. Unfortunately, though, like I just said, it's the nineties and science and technology have not advanced to where they are today. And Nikki is buried. No suspects are found and the days keep passing. We've lost two women and we have nobody to be held accountable for their loss. But as you can imagine, the word is getting around in the prostitution circles that there's a killer out there and he's targeting prostitutes in the area. But honestly, y'all, what are these girls gonna do? What are they going to do? They're all poor, they're broke, and they're addicted. Unfortunately, y'all, addiction it doesn't help to maintain fear when you are dope sick. And if you've never learned about dope sick, learn about it. Just have an the ounce of humanity.

25:00 Learn about it. It doesn't mean it's right. It doesn't mean people should do drugs. It doesn't mean we should feel sorry for people who actively go out and rob and steal and thieve and do drugs. I'm not saying that, but I am saying the human in me wants to understand what they go through. And any addict will tell you that addiction is stronger than anything. I mean, hell, y'all, people leave their families, they give up all sense of dignity, they stop seeing their children, they lose their homes all over. This addiction it's strong. It's so strong that they know someone's out there killing them and they continue to get in cars with strangers.

25:41 Think about that. So they keep working the streets and they just hope they don't meet the same fate. But this is exactly what thirty eight year old Kathy Brisboe was hoping too, and unfortunately it would be the outcome she would find again. She was friends with Yolanda and Nikki as well. She was hurting from their deaths too. She was sad, she had no coping skills and she's an addict. She needed dope. She kept working the streets. This is a direct quote I found. She had a real beautiful personality. According to her brother, Richard brisbo I did some research and I can tell you that Kathy and her brother have the same eyes, and that's why I know I was talking to her brother whenever I reached out. Their eyes are very similar, and I want you to know I did reach out to him for his thoughts on his sister, But at the time of this recording, we hadn't made a complete connection yet. I do want you to know, if we do get further in our conversations. I will certainly release any information he gives me about his sister because I want to give her that justice and that dignity. Kathy had a sister too. Her name is Deborah Bailey, and Deborah said that the first that always pops up in her mind about her sister Kathy isn't her struggle with drugs. She says, it's actually the holidays, because the last time she saw her sister was at Christmas time, and she said, we always had fun at Christmas together. And she said that

27:15 Kathy was worried and had even told her brother that she was worried that something bad was going to happen to her. And she didn't know why necessarily because this was before you know, those murders, but she just felt like something was going to happen to her. But Kathy would not go down without a fight. And something that her brother, Richard said was I'm glad my sister was the little scrapper that she was. She went down, but she did not go down without a fight, and I feel that, you know, at least she got to try her damnedest to live. But around May fourteenth, on nineteen ninety, Kathy would take a john, and she would expect this to be a typical trick that would you know, would turn for a buck. But unfortunately, this wouldn't be the case for her. She would unknowingly get into the very car of the very man that had already murdered two of her friends. And he's going to do the same thing to her that he did to those women. He's going to attack her after their sex act was complete, because by God, she was good enough for him to have sex with, but he did not feel she was good enough to live.

28:26 And then this monster would strike her, and according to her autopsy, he would strike her at least eight times in the head with a blunt object. And although that would be enough to incapacitate anyone, he would go for the coupdi gras, right, his favorite thing to do. He again, he pulled out that small caliber gun and he shot her three separate times. Boom boom boom. But he spread the wounds out time. He wanted that pain, and he wanted these wounds to be spread out amongst her body. He raised the gun and he shot her in the chest. I imagine her recoiling and fear and pain, and then he moved that gun to her right, and he shot her again in the right shoulder area. Again, that's not a kill shot, that's to hurt someone. And then to finalize the depravity of all that he's done to her, I imagine her laid back now on the ground, crying, wanting to live, wanting to see her brother and sister again. But he puts the gun to her head and he puts a bullet in her brain. Every single shot was completed at close range, in person and meant to hurt, maim, and ultimately kill her, and he

30:00 succeeded. And then, as if he had just completed a basic task like taking out the trash, he pushed her body and she would fall four or five feet down an embankment, where she would finally stop in her resting place, next to an embankment on that river, the same river that her two friends had been killed and dumped on. And if you're noticing, the violence seems to escalate, the pain and the suffering seems to escalate with each murder. There's anger in this man. You know. Her body would be found one day later, and that would be on May fifteenth, so a forensic expert would be able to collect DNA from the blood underneath her fingernail. One fingernail specifically had the DNA that they would test, and they would also able to get DNA from a vaginal swab. And then two bullet fragments were recovered from her body during the autopsy. And I'm sure this is gonna shock you, but both of those fragments were from a twenty two caliber bullet. So Kathy would then be laid to rest and still no one would be labeled as a suspect. And I know that's frustrating, But where would the police even go about finding this john who did his work in the night. He disappeared

31:34 hours before the bodies were even found. I mean, where do you even begin to look? But time, y'all, time is a major player in this game. There's something that I always tell my students when I'm discussing like high speed chases or when people try to run from the police, They're like, yeah, man, they can get away. I say, look, y'all, you may be able to get away from that officer, but you can't outrun the radio. We got to do is radio further down the road, and we got you, my boy. Right, you can't outrun time, because that radio is faster than that time. It's the same concept here. You can hide now, but you can't outpay science. My guy, science is coming and you can out you cannot outpace it. So time is also going to come into play when roughly eight years would pass after these women were murdered and a prostitute is going to come to the police. Instead, the police go into a prostitute. This time. They get word from a local prostitute that something weird happened and she thought that she should make a report about it. And let me tell y'all something. Just because they live lives that, don't, you know, always mean that they are going doing a nine to five like me and you. It doesn't mean that they don't have contributing information that can help with crime. Hell, these ladies live in crime world. They know some information that's useful, and you can't always just discount them just because they're prostitute, y'all. It's a strange yet complex dynamic.

33:08 Prostitutes taatee being arrested by the police, but they know the drill. They know they're doing something illegal. They're gonna try to get away with it, but they know what's up. You know, the National Library of Medicine found that most studies reported lifetime drug use among female sex workers thirty two studies from twenty countries. And the reason I'm telling you that is that these are addicts, y'all. They're not evil people. They're addicts, and regardless of that addiction, they look out for one another on the street. They talk to the police at times when it could help one another. And this is exactly the case when this prostitute came forward. And the reason I just keep referring to her as a prostitute is because I don't have her name. But she came forward and found it important enough to report a concern to the police about a quote unquote date she just had with a man on East Higher Avenue in Spokane. She was used to dealing with creepy men with wild fantasies behind, you know, beyond their capacities, but this one took the cake. She would describe her encounter with this man as and this is a direct quote, the creepiest thing I have ever been through in my life. And this is a woman who sells sex for a living. She went on to describe mannequins, crossbows and weapons and strange things all over his house. She said they were everywhere, And when I was reading that, I got the whole it puts the lotion on its skin, you know. I got that kind of

34:40 vibe from mannequins and all these weapons from in her complaint and like, look, don't get it twisted. This woman was having sex with strangers for money and she does hardcore drugs and it still weirded her out being around this fella. So she was waving the prostitute red flag like high and mighty you even I thought this was something wrong with it. By the way, this is a little side note, y'all have a fish in my classroom. I hope nobody at my work listens to this, and if you do, you better not go share it because I will deny it. But I have a fish tank in my classroom and all the fish are named after like crime related stuff, and my sucker fish her name's prostitute, but we just call her toot.

35:25 She's a sucker fish. Just thoughted share that anyway. So here's an experienced girl on the wild side and she does, you know, she describes this man as creepy. So the police say, you know what, maybe we do need to take a closer look at him? Now. Lucky for them, guess what happens. They don't have to do much groundwork because as she is literally voicing her concern to them, like making the report with them, the man drives by, the prostitute points him out. She goes, look there he is right there, that's him. The police officer jumps in his car okay and stops the man, who would then be identified as Douglas Perry, and during a pat down for officer safety, of course, the officer located two knives and a stun gun on his person. Okay, my guy, like, what in the Civil War are you armed like this?

36:23 For? It's weird, Like, why do you have a stun gun and two knives like that? Seems like a bunch, you know what I'm saying. It's two different types of fighting too. But you know, this is America. You can carry those things. It's not illegal. But they say, well, can we search your vehicle? And he agreed, He said sure, I consent to that. And so when the officer went in and he was, you know, checking the car, the officer found some papers explaining surgery procedures and some other like kind of weird stuff in there, but nothing illegal, So the officer didn't have any any grounds to take action against Perry other than that basic stop and search. Now, something interesting to note, though, is that Perry did have a criminal record that listed various charges dating back to nineteen seventy four, including a reckless endangerment reckless endangerment charge in nineteen eighty seven, but nothing that would justify any further action on behalf of the officer in that moment. And this is where people always go, Man, the officer, the police had him, Why didn't they do something?

37:27 What do you want him to do? Y'all? The constitution says you're allowed to carry weapons. The constitution says you can drive down the street. The constitution says you can be weird as fucking have mannequins and dolls and crossbows and shit. There's nothing illegal to that. He's just a freaking weirdo. Now. There was one prior arrest though, that would be coming back to haunt mister Perry really soon, because in nineteen eighty eight, he was arrested for possessing a pipe bomb. Right, you can't be making pipe bombs, you know, once you are not once you're manufacturing something outside of the scope of companies that make bombs for a living. I guess if you will for like military purposes and all that, then you're doing something that is illegal there.

38:16 And so this would lead to a complaint to the ATF, which would in turn cause them to go search Perry's home, and during that search he was found to have forty nine guns and twenty thousand rounds of ammunition. Now, normally I would say, so, what you know, I'm a right to bear arms kind of lady. However, this dude isn't a law abiding citizen, and he obviously has some issues going on with the way that he's living his life. And a year later, in nineteen eighty nine, there was also a charge for soliciting a prostitute. And this is going to prove important in that it establishes he did in fact access prostitutes. But again, more time would pass, But in nineteen ninety eight, Douglas Perry is going to have another run in with the law when a spoken police officer pulled him over for a traffic stop at one thirty in the morning, and during the questioning, he would become indignant and angry, and he would specifically become extremely hostile during the stop whenever he was asked about are you accessing prostitutes? Are you out here trying to get a prostitute? And he denied that. He said, I've never had involvement with a prostitute. And during a pat down again for officer safety, he once again was carrying a knife and he had a stun gun on his belt. Hopefully, you're starting to wonder why someone would

39:49 need both. I know you can, just you can, Okay, I know you can, just because, but why, Like, it's weird. You know, if you pulled a knife, then you don't need a stun gun, And why would you pull a stun gun if you have a knife. It just it makes me wonder. And it's one of those things where people are like, well, you don't you know, that's not any of your business, blah blah blah. Okay, maybe it's not my business, but it sure as hell's weird. It's a weird combo. And in the late nineties, Perry would have spent eighteen months in jail after he was pulled over in Oregon's Red Light District with a gun and a knife. Okay, so this guy is always armed, he's getting pulled over, he's accessing these prostitute areas. And while he was serving his sentence for this, guess what Perry did. He allegedly started telling his cellmates about the fact that he likes to kill prostitutes. Okay, and this is what we and the BIZ call a fucking clue. Something's going on with this guy. But you know, as you can see, there's a lot pointing towards his involvement in these murders.

40:50 But you know, police just hadn't put all these pieces of this puzzle together yet. This is me armchair quarterbacking everything in a nice package for you and laying it out. At the time, they didn't have all this connectedness. Fast forward though, to twenty twelve and that old pesky ATF would again be back at Douglas's home on weapons violations complaints. And during that search, again at the Eastpire East Empire Avenue, the ATF and local law enforcement officials confiscated twelve more firearms and a significant amount of ammunition. And among those firearms confiscated was another Ruger ten twenty two, a twenty two caliber rifle, and Perry was taken into federal custody. Now, even though that was a rifle that was taken, it's important to note this because if you're not familiar, I want to explain it to you real quick. This would matter because even though the three women that were killed at close range, meaning to me a pistol was used. I mean, how the hell would he hide a rifle right whenever he's raping these women. I mean, I guess you could shove a rifle up your ash. You're gona hurt yourse, You're gonna hurt yourself pretty bad, right, But I don't think it's a rifle. He had a pistol. Well, the twenty two AMMO can be shot from a rifle or a handgun, so it matters. This means that he had the AMMO for the caliber weapon that was used to kill the women. That means he

42:21 wasn't unfamiliar with it. All of the firearms that were confiscated from Perry's house in twenty twelve proved to have been manufactured in nineteen ninety seven or later. Remember though these women were killed in nineteen ninety that's the firearms, right. That means that the weapons weren't even manufactured when these women were killed, but he still had ammunition. Now, where had these weapons come from? And how did Perry acquire them? Which this was kind of strange too. A firearm trace of those twenty two caliber rifles that were confiscated from his homes in both nineteen ninety four and two. Well, so both times that the ATF went, they determined that their retail purchasers had been two brothers, not Perry.

43:09 Their names were Bruce and Mark Massingale. So police are like, hm, we need to go talk to these Massingale brothers, and so they were interviewed and both of them said readily, yeah, we're friends of Perry's. And Bruce even says, yeah, Douglass, Perry lived with me for some time. Further questioning, though, would uncover that Perry had lived with a woman named clare Anne Galloway in nineteen ninety but then she just randomly left Spokane and her whereabouts at that point were unknown. Law enforcement would eventually be able to track down miss Galloway, but they would learn that she was in Los Angeles, and when they went to go talk to her, they found that she was severely suffering from mental illness and that she had become a ward of a guardian, meaning that the state says, you can't take care of yourself, we're gonna put someone else, you know, kind of like the Britney Spears name going on, but this wasn't Brittany. So, but she had a guardian and when the police went to that guardian, the guardian said not no, but hell no, you're not interview interviewing her. So the officers noted this, but they went to Los Angeles PD and said, look, if we if she's ever taken out of that guardianship and it's terment, you know that that contract is terminated, we want to interview her. But as luck would have it, the police were eventually notified that's not gonna happen because miss Galloway she died. So it was like, right as they got on this trail, a witness kills over but they're not easily deterred. And an

44:44 investigation of Miss Galloway's background revealed that she herself had been a prostitute. Makes sense, right, Mental illness, drug abuse, all of those things run rampant amongst prostitutes. Not only that, but she was also a friend of Yolanda, Kathy and Nikki, all three of the victims that had been murdered and dumped. So the police did I even further dive into her criminal record, and they were able to produce four photographs that had been taken when she was booked into the Spokane County jail. And the timeline, y'all, is pretty interesting because there was two of them that were taken specifically, one of them on February twenty first and one of them on March fifteenth. And you're like, okay, well, what does that matter. Well, one was taken the day before Yolanda's body was found, and one was taken the day Kathy's body was found. So they thought, hmm, he's friends with all these or he's friends with this prostitute woman who has mental illness, and then these three women who were friends with her as well end up dead. There's got to be a link. There is. There's no coincidences in law enforcement.

45:53 I don't think there are. So Mark Massingale, remember he was one of the brothers who purchased the guns, remembered something he remembered that Miss Galloway kept getting arrested, and when she would get arrested, Douglas Perry would always somehow find the money to bail her out, and that was crazy because y'all, he was unemployed and he lived on Social Security. How was he affording this Because bail's not cheap and this is in the nineties, he doesn't have the money. This led police to develop a theory, and their theory was that they thought Perry was robbing the women in an effort to obtain bail money to get Galloway out of jail. That's why they were dying when she was arrested. You remember how I keeps saying that twenty percent of the population is producing one hundred percent of the crime. Well, babies, here we go.

46:57 It's like laying out like button right now. You can see it all right now, listen, I'm gonna stop here, but I promise you I'm going to conclude this episode in part two. But shit is about to get wild. I'm telling you this is not like some promo. I'm telling you. You're gonna be like, what in the hell You're gonna wtf init next episode? Okay, but I had to give you all this backstory. Just trust me. Yes, there's gonna be a part two, but I have a lot more that I want to tell you. And you do not want me to skip it. I promise you don't. We have psychology and biology and a whole bunch of like I said, WTF come in your way in Part two. Obviously, people will have their opinions and everyone will not agree on everything that's coming your way. But I can tell you this with complete confidence. There may be two sides to every story, but you, mister Perry, are a fucking douchebag in both of them,