Toxic: The Murder of Joni Sanders

0:00 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable.

0:51 Warning, unspeakable is intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, KJ here back for another episode of Unspeakable. Let's go and on. Let's go and on. We're back in two, season five, and this is episode two. How have you been? I hope you've been listening and catching up. I know a lot of people have been messaging me saying, "I took a break during Christmas and I'm having a catch up and this is going great." Well great, binge it. Get all your shows if you want to, but speaking of shows, did you all know that that live show that we just posted sold out, it sold out in one hour and twenty minutes, which I guess as a creator is phenomenal. I was dumbfounded. I was shocked.

1:31 Jim wasn't. Jim a Thee was like, "Yeah, that's how it goes." But I was shocked, I don't know. So, wow, thank y'all so much for buying those tickets. And so we had so much of a demand or request/demand of another show that we did open another one up. There will not be a third show. So if you want to come and you want to see the live show that I've got coming up, it's a good one. And so we added another night. As of the time of this recording, we do have seats available, but that may not be the case because they're selling really fast. So get online. I've put links out on my Facebook. I've put links on Patreon. I've put links. I think pretty much everywhere. I can put them for you to find them. But go get them.

2:11 Get your tickets now. Please don't wait because like I said, I'm not doing a third night. There will only be these two nights. Just when you buy the tickets, there were a lot of questions about, well, what about an email confirmation? It does send out an email confirmation, but they keep going everywhere until you're spam and until you're junk mail. Some people are putting the wrong email address in altogether. And so it's kicking back and maybe not coming through to you. Look, when you check out, if you get the confirmation number, you have tickets. It's that simple. You can screenshot it, do whatever you want to do to make sure, you know, that makes you feel good about it. But you do have tickets when you get that confirmation number as soon as you check out. And you do not need a paper ticket. You do not need a paper ticket. We actually have you on a list by name when you purchase the tickets and we will check that whenever you come in the front door.

2:56 It's easy, peasy, lemon, squeezy. Just show up. Walk up to a food truck. Get you some to eat. Walk over to the drink truck. Get you something to drink and get to sip in and snack in because the show is going to start and it's a banging one. All right. No worries. And I'm going to have merch there. If you want to buy some merch, I'm going to have, like I said, food trucks. And drink trucks and everything that your heart desires. All you got to do is show up and have a good time. So tickets are $48. Go ahead and get those because when it sells out, that's it. Also, and this is like a personal thing I want to put out there for you. Please do not buy tickets from people claiming that they bought them and now they have a whatever reason and they have to sell them.

3:39 They are scammers. They are scammers trying to get you to send money to them. I even went and looked at some of their profiles and they look good. Man, these look like normal people, but they're not. These are people that are trying to get you to send money and when you do it, it's out of my hands. You only can buy tickets from my approved vendor, which is through Southeastern. If you buy them from third parties and then you show up, I promise you they're scamming you. I promise you. Please do not bite. Please do not send them any money. I can't say it enough. Please do not. But hey, America. You make your decisions, right? Okay. I've got some shout outs that I want to give and this one's going to start out in Eager, Arizona with Miss Linda Parker.

4:22 Hey, Linda. I'm so glad to have you as one of my members on my Patreon as well as Jamie Askins. Hi, Jamie. And then we move right here in my backyard to Dimsp rings and Madison Semino. She's joined. Hey, Madison. I'm glad to have you right here in my hometown, girl. And certainly last but not least is Miss Amy Owens from Homer, California, all the way in Cali. I'm so tickled about my Cali listeners. I just, I don't know why, but that just tickles me. So thank you all so much for joining and for being a supporter of the show. Man, it makes all the difference. And I've got content online and I'm working so hard to up the ante and to post as much as I can as often as I can.

5:05 So go check it out. Also, when you become a Patreon member and you're a tiered, member, then you have communication with me and it's direct communication. Send me a chat, ask me a question. I'll answer as soon as I can. It's me talking to you and I'm happy to look anything up for you or try to help you out if I can. So thank you all so much to everyone that supports the show. And I'm going to go ahead and get started with this episode. So today's episode is another Louisiana case and it takes place in Vivian, Louisiana, on March the 12th, 2000. Now, Vivian, if you're not familiar, is a town in Cato Parish, which if you're looking at the state, we call it the boot, right? I'm from Louisiana. I'm from Louisiana.

5:46 We call it that boot, right? If you go to the LSU games, you know that. All right, but if you're looking at the boot, it's going to be the most northern west part of the state. So up high and to the left if you're looking at a flat map, but there lived a man and a woman who were in a romantic relationship and their names were Larry Sharp and Joni Sanders. Now their relationship had recently come to an end and as the month of January 2000 came about, it really was like officially kind of over. But I'm not going to contend that this relationship from the start was without problems because I want to give you a little bit of background on Larry. Larry was previously married for 18 years.

6:27 He was committed, I guess, to his first wife. They had a daughter. Her name was Holly and they, you know, kind of live, live their life. He maintained employment, but there was a few problems that Larry had that were kind of personal problems. He drank heavily. He did use drugs. He liked to gamble and he liked to have affairs, which is what led to the original, you know, the official end of his original marriage, his first marriage. And later he would met a girl named Joni or a woman named Joni and the two of them would begin dating and eventually they would live together for some time, but eventually they separated. But their relationship did have some issues and there was an incident during their relationship that I found where Larry had actually cut Joni with a box cutter and it was a bad enough cut that she did have to get medical attention and some stitches for this.

7:21 Now while I don't have a ton of details on that event itself, I did feel like in the totality of the story, that would matter. So I'm just giving you the little bit of basics that I know. Also complete transparency here. As this story goes on, you'll see why, but this is not a very prominent case. You're not going to find this one all over the internet. It wasn't a big case. And so I did struggle finding information on my victims here. So it's not for lack of trying that I don't have a ton for you. This go round. But there's a reason I chose this story. Now as their relationship had ended a few months had passed and Joni was trying to move on and see she had recently begun dating a man and his name was Marcio Stanford.

8:04 And Larry himself was trying to move on and he did have a female friend. Her name was Sarah Grisham, but they were not necessarily boyfriend and girlfriend. He just really confided in her a lot and they seem to have an amicable relationship. So it wasn't necessarily romantic, but they did often comfort each other whenever they would be going through hard times. And on a Friday night in March of 2000, just before this case really starts taking place, Joni placed a call to Larry and told him, look Larry, I really want to see you. Now specifically, Joni wanted to meet up with him, not just talk to him and said, can we meet up at the Malibu Beach Club in Shreveport so that we can talk?

8:47 Now I don't have a ton of information of what else went on in that conversation, but it is documented that she did reach out to him and she did want to have a meetup with him. So in the early 90s, the Malibu Beach Club was considered the place to be and the club had several levels of clubbing, which was kind of neat for the 90s. And each level had like its own bar, but it also had like its own vibe, right? So it depended on which level you were on, what kind of vibe you were getting while you were clubbing. And it would have been a fun place to meet up, throw back some drinks and get together, because at this point it kind of seemed like, hmm, maybe they really hadn't cut ties 100%.

9:29 I don't know that this relationship was one, you know, of Romeo and Juliet, but it surely was one that was toxic and they were like, you know, firing gasoline, but they kept kind of going back and forth is what I gathered from what I had researched. Now Larry and Joni spoke for a while and as that conversation was being held, Larry looked down at the caller ID on his phone and he was quite shocked to see that he recognized that phone number that she was calling from. However, y'all, it wasn't because it was Joni's phone number. Larry had heard that Joni was actually seeing someone else and this phone call that she placed seemed to confirm that, but it was shocking to Larry because the fact was that she was calling from Marcio's house and the reason that was shocking to Larry is because what I haven't told you yet is Marcio was Larry's very good friend.

10:24 So if that doesn't tell you, Rut-Roh was about to go on, Rut-Roh. Now being a human being, if you didn't know I am a human being, I can say that this probably had a pretty strong sting to it and I'm not going to deny that one bit. I mean, it's bad enough that they broke up with one another and they were still kind of talking a little bit. They didn't break it off necessarily 100%. And now she's actually seeing one of his friends. That had to hurt. So Larry decided, no, I'm not going to go meet with you. He did not go that night and instead he went to bed and then he got up Saturday morning and he traveled to Nacodosh's Texas to go visit Sarah, that friend that I mentioned earlier.

11:06 And at the time of this case, Larry was known to go and visit her at her home and to hang out. So according to Sarah, Larry arrived and when he was there, he was a real upset from the time that he got there because he was kind of talking to her about his issues and that the woman he cared about a lot had started seeing someone else. Yet it seemed like the woman, the woman being Joni, seemed to really want Larry still around her and he kind of was feeling, I guess, mixed signals from her. They kind of decided, you know what, let's relax together. They drank some beer throughout the day and they did some housework and some chores around Sarah's house. She wanted to go work in the yard and so Larry joined in and they worked in the yard for a good while talking about the issues and just, you know, throwing back some beer.

11:53 And when they finally completed the tasks that Sarah wanted to do around the house, Larry got cleaned up and decided he wanted to look to head to a local bar named Jitterbugs and have a few more beer. Now remember, I already told you a little bit about Larry and he does have drinking problems. He does have drug usage and gambling and he does seem to have what I would think is in a very addictive personality. But hey, cold beer after a long day, a yard work sounds pretty damn good, am I right? I mean, I know when I work in my yard, I love when I'm sweating and we finish doing all the cutting and the edge in and all that. I love plopping down this blue chair I have and just cracking back some cold ones. It just is nice, right? So Larry did just that.

12:35 But while Larry went out that night and went and had some beers, he also plays several phone calls and those phone calls he made were to Marcio. And he even left three messages saying, look man, I'm not mad at you, but I do want to talk to you. But Marcio never returned his phone calls. All right. So Larry seemed to be out and about, drinking, thinking and drinking. So after having his drinks that evening, Larry then did return back to Sarah's house a little bit after midnight and he tried to go to bed and get some sleep. But unbeknownst to Sarah, the whole time Larry's lay in there. This got Joni on his mind and he can't shake it, right? He's probably drunk.

13:16 He's in a bad way. He's really upset about the phone call Joni had made from Marcio's house earlier that day. So as Larry tried to toss and turn, he just could not get the feeling of betrayal and hurt out of his mind and out of his heart. And he didn't get much sleep and the more he thought about it, the worse he felt. And he even at one point got up and tried to go get in the bed with Sarah and she let him. And he just said, look, I just want to hold you. You can just hold you. I don't, I'm just, I'm in a bad way and she was like, that's fine, you know, whatever. But he just, he couldn't do it y'all. And that's when he decided to do the only thing that he could think to do after a night of heavy drinking and sadness and he decided, I'm going to kill myself.

14:03 So Larry was better to Larry than living without Joni. So Larry did eventually doze off and when he got up the next morning, he told Sarah, look, I'm gonna go get some breakfast. I think he said he was going to McDonald's and so the reality of it was that it actually wasn't true. Instead, Larry got in his vehicle and he started driving and he headed to Marshall, Texas. And the reason he drove to Marshall is he had another friend that lived there. This friend's name was Jeff Palmer. Now when Larry got in the car, he was in tent on going to Jeff's house, but he was not going there to visit. He didn't want to visit. He didn't want to be talked off the ledge of being suicidal.

14:43 In fact, Larry went to that house because he knew Jeff wouldn't be home. He knew that Jeff would be at work. And the reason he knew that is that he had previously been a roommate of Jeff's and lived with him and he still had a spare key from when he lived there. So he knew that he could get into the house. And there's a reason that he headed to that unoccupied home of a friend. And I believe it was because of convenience and comfort and he could explain it away if he happened to be caught in the house. But another thing that was pointed out to me or that I pointed out to myself, I guess, was that this wasn't a quick trip. I even looked up the distance because I actually didn't know. And it was an 80 mile drive he would have taken, which was gonna be about an hour and 20 minutes if you drove the most direct route.

15:29 And when Larry got there, he was able to get into the home through the back door using that key. And then he immediately went to where he knew there was a shotgun and he took it. He took a 12 gauge semi automatic shotgun and then he rearranged some stuff on that shelf where he took it and on the gun rack so that his friend might not notice that his gun was missing whenever he got back home. As he was able to obtain that weapon, he then traveled to a dearleast camp where he ultimately said that he was going to kill himself. And he was wanting his friend Tim Klonegger to come and to find his body at first. But while he was driving and he was thinking on his way there, he decided, you know what, you know, I want him to find my body, but I think instead, I think I want to go kill Mars Hill and Joni.

16:18 I think that might make me feel better. So there were some things he wanted to say. And if he killed himself first, he wasn't going to be able to do that. So while he was thinking through exactly what to do, he decided that he needed to get someone else's truck as well because he was driving without a license and he was scared that the police might recognize his truck and then take him to jail for lack of a license. My only curiosity with that, and you know, I'm always going to give my opinion on things, my only curiosity about that detail is the fact that if you were about to go kill yourself and then other people, like, why would you care about, you know, driving without a license? I mean, I guess you could argue that he couldn't kill himself if they arrested him and put him in jail.

16:58 But I mean, he's already committed a burglary. He's already stolen a firearm. So driving without a license, to me, seems kind of petty of an issue for someone contemplating death. But it seems more along the lines of the fact that he wanted to make sure that he was able to get there and kill them before his plan was thwarted somehow. But either way, when they spoke, he and Tiltarian Tim, he did ask Tim, "Hey, man, can I borrow your truck?" And so when he was questioned, "What do you need a truck for?" He said, "Look, I'm going to be moving my furniture because I'm going to move in with Sarah." Now, I don't have to tell you that's not true, but that's what he told Tim. And Tim was a nice guy, so Tim said, "Sure, no problem."

17:40 And he agreed to meet Larry at the deer camp. And when he got there, Larry, or while he was driving there, Larry had a little bit of time on his hands sitting and waiting for Tim to get there. So Larry took that time to write two letters. He wrote one letter to his ex-wife, and then he wrote another one to his daughter. Now in those letters, Larry tried to explain what was about to happen and the reasoning for his decisions and why he was doing what he was doing. And he also even added things in like who he wanted to be his pallbearer, and he also asked that his ashes be spread on a golf course. All right, real quick. If I was on a jury listening to this, I find that kind of interesting just because I can identify with what he's saying, not murder, but with, like, it made me think of my own dad because I don't know.

18:29 My own dad, I think, would want his freaking ashes on a golf course. He would want a drink beer and be spread out on the golf course. And it made me kind of think about how jurors might react differently to that when a man's writing a suit, what looks like a suicide note, but he's also got murder on his mind. It's kind of an interesting dynamic. But once Tim arrived, Larry then, they got in the truck and Larry took Tim back home and then he returned back to the camp in the truck, retrieved the shotgun, and he also says that he got some squirrel shot while he was there. And he also, at that point, took about six or seven volume, I guess, to get relaxed. And remember, he was wanting to kill Joni and Marcio before he committed suicide.

19:13 But now there was a rather large issue still standing in his way. And it's that he didn't know where Marcio was currently living. So how you gonna go kill somebody if you don't know where they are, right? So that's when Larry decided to drive to both Smithland and Jefferson, Texas, where he picked up a gas can, he got some gasoline. And Larry did know one thing that he didn't have to ask people about and he did know where Joni's mother lived. So he drove to that address, he parked down the road and he watched for any signs of people being home. I'm not sure if he was watching because he didn't want anyone to be home so that he wouldn't get caught or if he just wanted to go be vindictive and do something to that home without actually hurting people.

20:03 I really, I don't know, I think you would have to decide that one for yourself. But he did go up and knock on the door at one point in a report that I read and he realized okay, the house is unoccupied. So he got to the truck, he grabbed his gas can and then he walked up to the house. And once he got close, Larry opened that gas can up and he started pouring that gas all around the home of Joni's mother. And as soon as he had soaked it as good as he could, he flicked that match and he set that house on fire. After the blaze was burning good, he hid the gas can, he returned to the truck and just drove away. One important home to Joni was now going to go down in flames.

20:45 I personally think that that's of heavy importance because he wanted to and I feel like destroy every aspect of Joni's life that he could. I don't know he necessarily had beef with her mother, but that would certainly be stressful for Joni to know that her mother's house was burning to the ground. And we don't even know if mom was inside of sleep or Larry didn't know that. So he could have been killing people just because he was upset. Not cool, Larry. So now Larry has turned to sites. So I've got to find where Marcio lives. So he drove back to Smithland and he asked several people if they knew where he lived and he was able to get an address for him, but it wasn't actually Marcio's house.

21:31 It was Marcio's mother's home. So to not kind of let people know that he had bad intentions when they would ask, what do you need him for? He said, oh, well, we're fishing buddies. We're supposed to go fishing together. And so they're like, okay, well, here's what his mom lives. You can probably go ask her and she can tell you where he is. So Larry jumped in that truck and immediately now set out for that location. So it did take him a little bit of time, but eventually Larry was able to find where his Marcio's mother was. Her name was Ada and he was able to locate that home in the late afternoon of March 12th. So Larry arrived at the address and as he's pulling up, he immediately recognized Marcio in the yard and not only was Marcio there, but he was working alongside his own mother.

22:15 They were repairing a fence and as a look would have it, as Larry approached the home and got even closer, he also laid eyes on Joni who was walking around the house to the back and she was helping with laundry of Ada, of Ada Marcio's mom. So Larry pulls up and he throws the truck in part and he gets out of the car and he enters the yard and he approaches Marcio and he begins asking him, hey man, why haven't you returned him any my phone calls? Well Marcio is obviously taking kind of a surprise and shock that Larry's at his mother's house and you know, Marcio does answer him.

22:55 I'm sorry man, you know, I'm sorry I didn't call you back and supposedly Larry then says, look man, I'm not mad at you. I just, I want to know why you're not answering my phone calls. And so Marcio again is shocked, but he says, look, I'm sorry I didn't call you back. I just didn't have time to call you back. I've been real busy. Well, whenever he said that to him, it put Larry into a fury of an unnatural level and now I mean, I feel like it's because he knows that Marcio is probably lying to him. He doesn't want things to the call because he's dating his ex-girlfriend. So Larry looks Marcio in his eyes and in that moment he makes a decision, you got to die.

23:36 He would even later say, he being Larry, that you know, I would have shot him right there but his mother was behind him. So I didn't want to pull the trigger. Remember, it's a shotgun. I didn't want to pull the trigger because his mom was standing behind him and you know, he didn't have any beef with with a mama. He had beef with Marcio, even though he's saying he doesn't clearly he does. But first, he wanted to lay eyes on Joni. So he asked if Joni was there and Marcio says yes. And you know, she should have still been around the house, around the back doing the laundry. So Larry asked him, hey, man, do you care if I go talk to her and Marcio is no man, you can go back there. So Larry gets in his truck and he drives around to the back of the home where he saw Joni.

24:17 Now I personally got the feeling that Joni could tell there was a problem just maybe in the essence of how Larry got out of the truck because when he got out, something signal to her that this was a problem because she took off running from him when he got out of the car. And she rips open a screen porch door and she only had time to run onto that screen porch before Larry got out of that truck, ripped open that screen door and he yelled at her, Joni, you're a lying whore. And then he threw that shotgun up on his shoulder and he shot her with it.

24:59 And seeing the damage that he had done, it still was not enough for him. He pulled the trigger again, shooting her a second time with that shotgun. Joni had no chance whatsoever. She was horrifically mortally wounded there on that porch where she collapsed, bleeding to death in the warmth of her own pooling blood. So real quick, I'm not going to go into like some expert talk here, but if you're not familiar with shotgun shells for the most part, you're going to have either a bird shot or you can have buck shot or you could have a slug. Okay? So bird shot, if you're not familiar with it, hey, if you're watching me podcast, I'll draw you a little picture, but you've got your shotgun shell and bird shot, it's kind of tiny, but bird shot is going to be a whole bunch of t tiny little pellets in there.

25:49 And you can think about it, they're trying to kill a bird with it. You don't need something. You can even see that in my lighting is kind of crazy. And it's just tiny little pellets that are in there, but you shoot it and they disperse, and the further they go without making impact, the further that they disperse. Buck shot is going to be the same thing, but they're bigger. Think about taking down a buck, right? Taking down a deer. And then a slug is going to be like a larger solid mass that would be shot out. Now, if you're not familiar with weaponry and you're going, oh, well, it was bird shot, it's intended to kill a bird. Yeah, not intended to be shot at a human being and definitely not twice. So I don't want the fact I'm saying bird shot to make you think that it's nothing.

26:31 It fucking hurt. And it killed her. And it was too blast to her body in less than 15 feet, in less than 10 feet. So all those propellants came out and they bam, bam, bam, they're just entering her body and then just shredding the skin and destroying everything that comes in its place. Now, if you're familiar with how all this works, then you're like, okay, Gally, it's not a big deal, but for people who aren't familiar with it, I want you to know that. It's no less just because it's bird shot. So then I'll start going down a rabbit hole, okay? Because I don't know if you do this, but I do. And I'm like, I wonder what it feels like to be shot with a shotgun? And I know that's weird, but I do.

27:12 Like I wonder what it feels like. And again, it's going to matter if you have bird shot or slugs or whatever, but regardless, I did find a core entry online. And I thought this was kind of interesting. It was someone who had been shot by a shotgun. And so this is what his thoughts were on it. I thought I'd read it to you just for interesting, just because it was interesting. He said, I can answer this from a firsthand experience. When I was 15, I was out deer hunting with some friends with a shotgun. And in my case, they had slugs, okay? So they did have the bigger, the bigger round. But we were leaving the woods after a very cool day in the field. There was a partially fallen tree across the trail. I leaned down so I could get under it. And just as I got to the other side, I heard a deafening sound.

27:52 I felt like I had been struck by lightning. Every nerve in my body fired at the same time. It's hard to describe it, but it was like every bone in my body got hit with a sledgehammer. The person behind me, as he was climbing over, excuse me, under that same tree, had his shotgun discharge. Now this was what was kind of crazy to me. He didn't get shot directly with that slug. It was barely, it barely clipped my shoulder blade from a distance of just a couple of feet. So close, I actually had powder burns marked on my skin. I stood there for a moment with this, what the fuck just happened feeling? And in a moment realized, holy shit, you've been shot.

28:35 It was a long walk back to the road and around probably half a mile. I was going into shot. If you know anything about deer hunting, you know if the blood trail looks like red foam, like a shaving cream, that the animal has damaged lungs. I started coughing up blood and when I saw the foam, I knew I was in real trouble. I walked and stumbled as best he could to the road, then they tried to call for help. But he said the crazy thing was that he was grazed by the slug, like barely grazed by it, the scapula, you know, his shoulder blade. And a piece of meat, the doctor said, was about the size of a chicken breast was blown out. The tissue anywhere around it was turned to mush, like frickin hamburger.

29:16 It was a shattered bone and muscle turned to ground beef. So while this is probably a little bit different, because it's a different type of shell, it still shows the fear to me and the pain of being, he was just clipped, right? Not full on shot twice by a shotgun. And growing up, my daddy always told me something. He would always say, Kelly, you need to have a shotgun in your house for protection. And I'd be like, why a shotgun? Why wouldn't you want a different type of gun? And daddy always said this to me. Most universally recognizable sound that you will hear when that gun is being racked, the other person on the other end of it knows this is what death sounds like. And if you want to fuck around, you will find out when it comes to a shotgun. And that sound would be it, you know, in a human on human combat interaction.

30:02 So my thing is this was no mutual combat, right? This was a defenseless woman on a screened in Southern porch. And to me, that's where we rock in our rockers, y'all. And that's where we drink our sweet tea. That's not where we expect to be shot twice brutally by someone who we thought might love us or used to at least. So at the same time, after they're hearing these two blasts and realizing the extreme danger that Joni was in, Ada and Marcio both took off running from, you know, the front of the house and they tore around to the back of the home. And they were trying to get to Larry. And when they got back there, they wanted to help help Joni, but it was just too late.

30:43 So as they rounded the corner, Larry was already back getting into the truck and he was starting to back out of the driveway. And Ada almost in shock is screaming, stop, stop, stop. So Larry does believe it or not. He stops the truck. But to miss Ada's horror, she then sees Larry throw that shotgun up and point that shotgun out the window towards her and her son. So Larry knew that Marcio always carried a pistol. So he started firing at Marcio who had then taken off running. So Larry then fired at Marcio and literally, I mean, he's actually toward miss Ada at that point, but he's hitting Marcio's truck in the process because thinking quickly on his feet, Marcio ran to his truck and he pulled out that gun that he was known to have and he just started unloading on Larry as Larry was backing out of the driveway onto the main roadway, right?

31:39 Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, he's just unloading his weapon. He was, you know, Larry was trying to get away basically from the murder he had just committed, but as the truck tore away and it barreled down that road, Marcio shot again. And this time he did hit the back of Larry's truck as it tore off into the distance. Now with Larry gone in some distance between them and the immediate threat ended. Ada and Marcio again returned to go try to find Joni who they knew was mortally wounded, but they were praying that this wasn't the case. But when they came up on her, they found her. She was lying face down and she was lying face down in some running water from the hot water pipes which had been hit by Larry's gunfire.

32:21 And she was motionless. So devastated and sickened by the sight that he saw, Marcio walked up and carefully pulled Joni from that water flow. But he was able to tell when he pulled her away that she was gone, that she was no more. So in an effort to maintain her dignity and to show respect for her, Marcio grabbed a sheet that was there and he covered her lifeless body with it. And they immediately called 911 to try to get some help. So in shock, they're there, you know how in the hell had Ada and Marcio and Joni gone from a normal day of yard work to this.

33:03 What had just happened, right? No attempts at saving Joni were going to be necessary. What Larry did to her was beyond repair and he finished what he started out to do. It was a blitz attack that left one woman dead and two others scared other ever-loven minds and y'all had happened in a second. I mean, it probably happened quicker than it took me to tell the story just now. Your life can change in an instant. But the story is not over yet. So Larry now was moving to another location because killing himself now became his priority and at that point he then took a whole bottle of volume that he had after the shooting and he continued to drive two or three miles away.

33:48 And he had originally broken into that first friend's house that I told you about not only did he get a shotgun, but he also grabbed a piece of hose like a garden hose and he decided to take that piece of hose that he took and he connected it to his tailpipe of the truck he was in and he started the truck and an attempt to commit suicide. So he had some duct tape. He connected that hose to the end of the tailpipe. He duct taped it as best that he could and then he pulled the other end of the hose into the truck window and he just started pumping that carbon monoxide into the cab of the truck. But just as he started getting groggy, the truck started to overheat and he had to get out of the truck.

34:34 There was an ice chest with water in the back of it. So he took that and tried to cool the engine and he allowed, you know, he cooled down, allowed him to get back in there and try a second suicide attempt. But at that point the truck all together just quit running. So he had to make a new course of action. So he grabbed the shotgun and then he walked until he reached a pay phone and there he called his daughter Holly because he wanted to tell her goodbye. And I'm telling you now Larry has done some horrific things. My heart now is with Holly. I don't know her, by the way. But can you imagine, right? Because it turns out that Holly had gotten a phone call from her father the night before the shooting ever took place and she said he was very upset. He was crying.

35:15 He said that he was going crazy and he was asking Holly, man, get your mama. I need to talk to your mama. I've tried to call her, but her phone number had changed and so he could not get a hold of her. So now here's Holly the next day and she's now receiving another call from her dad and now he says, I've done something bad. I need to talk to your mother, which is interesting. Y'all it's his ex-wife. They divorced one another. But I feel I fail. Oh my God. The most country thing I think I've ever said in my life, I apologize. But I feel like she divorced Larry because Larry wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing. I don't know that for a fact, but that's what I get the feeling of, but he still is dependent on her, I guess, for emotional support.

35:58 So Holly is like, okay, Daddy, let me try to get a hold of mom. I'm going to have her call you. So the caller ID indicated to Holly that her dad was calling from that pay phone and Larry was crying. He was really upset and Holly said, okay, let me get mama. I'm going to have her call you, but there was an issue. That pay phone that Larry was standing at would not accept calls. It would only let him make calls out. So no phone call ever came back through to Larry. So unable to speak to his ex-wife and right after killing his former lover, Larry decided he was going to go out with a bang literally. He decided, all right, I'm just going to shoot myself.

36:38 I'm done. I'm still self now. And part of me wants to feel bad for him, but I can't because you did this to yourself. You brought this on yourself and you've just killed somebody and you've also burned down her mother's home. So there's another victim there. Your daughter is now a victim. She's going to go through her life horrified. I'm sure that she, if only that phone would have rang, maybe something different could have happened. I don't know. But Larry decided at this point he was going to shoot himself and end his life, but he ran into another issue that when he tried to place the shotgun under his throat, it made it where he was unable to effectively pull the trigger because of the length of the weapon. So thinking about other options, that's when Larry said, okay, let me just get an extension and then I could pull the trigger.

37:23 So he walked around and he did find a stick that I read. He needed one that was kind of like a y-shaped stick and he was going to use that to be the extension to pull the trigger. So doing this though is a little bit easier said than done. So as he positioned the gun to try to do the extension, right, to make it shoot, the gun prematurely fired, but it did make contact with Larry. It actually struck him in the chest and it knocked him backwards. So Larry is now also potentially mortally wounded and he's going to need life saving care if he ever he was to survive. Now if this was a movie, Larry would have slumped down and slid to the ground and his eyes would have slowly glazed over and he'd be dead, right?

38:04 But that's not how the order of the world works. When he did that, a few minutes later, the Cato pair of Sheriff's Office received a report of a gun fired in the vicinity of a nearby bar named Mud Puppies. And someone in there had heard the shot and they called 911. Obviously shots fired would have been of concern, right? Specifically around a bar where people are drinking, so deputies went out to investigate that report. And when deputies arrived, they searched the area and eventually they did find Larry lying near that pay phone with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest. So an ambulance was immediately called as well as Sergeant Gary Freak who was notified about a man with a gunshot wound.

38:45 So he and another Cato Sheriff's Office investigator named John May went to the scene where they too walked up and they did. In fact, observe a white male laying on the ground with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Well there was a deputy James McLean who had arrived on scene right before them and I mean, he might have been one of the first ones on scene if not the first and he had applied a towel and pressure to the wound that Larry had. But Larry had continued to scream, please just let me die, just let me die. But you know, officers aren't going to do that, right? They're going to try to assist you. So he was able to get those two investigators up to date with the fact that, you know, the shot male was Larry Sharp. Now Sergeant Freak walked around and he found the gun that Larry had shot himself with.

39:28 It was roughly 200 feet away from where Larry was laying and he did identify it as that 12 gauge pump shotgun. Coincidentally though, investigator May who was on scene had earlier in that evening around 6 p.m. been called to the scene of a shooting where he found the body of Joni. So he was actually the one that responded to the death scene of Joni, Marcio identified Larry Sharp as the guy who had done this. And then now here he is to another guy that's been shot and sure enough, he knows what's going on. Now, what was even crazier about this was that Larry was still awake. He was lucid.

40:09 He was able to talk. Maybe it was all the volume. I don't know, but he's got a gunshot chest to the, what? A gunshot wound at the chest and he's still able to talk. Y'all, he was alert, according to the reports. He was alert. He was conscious. And although he was in a lot of pain, he still was able to be Miranda's. They gave him his rights and they asked him, hey, did you shoot yourself? He said, yes. They said, did you shoot Joni? He said, yes, a very matter of factly. And they were like, why did you shoot her? And he even explained while he was being worked on, I shot her because she ran off with my best friend. He also said that the gun that he had just shot himself with was in fact the same one that he had killed Joni with earlier that day.

40:51 And officers were able to retrieve several notes from Larry's pockets and deputies located the truck Larry drove nearby the bar where he was found. And the officers noted that the truck had several bullet holes in the bed of it and that hose was still connected to the tailpipe. This was Larry's truck and exactly what Marcio said happened seemed to be panning out right there with what they were seeing evidence wise. So Larry was arrested but transported to the LSU Medical Center where he continued to receive treatment. And at the hospital when doctors were trying to save Larry, he just kept pleading with the emergency responders, please just let me die. Just let me die. I don't want to live. But as the order of the world would have it, Larry would survive.

41:33 His self-inflicted injury. And Larry never contested the fact that he shot Joni. And while he remained in the hospital, officers continued their investigation, including finding letters left at the hunting camp by Larry. Remember he wrote those letters before he barbed the truck. In one red, this is a direct quote, "I would have killed you, Marcio, but your mom was in the way you sorry bastard." Another one red, who it was like it was speaking to the reader of the note whenever they found it. Please go to my apartment to see how many times Joni had called me and it also said Joni came over about two weeks earlier and had sex with him several times. So I'm certainly not victim blaming here but it does seem to muddy it up, right?

42:18 Maybe she was kind of going between the two men trying to, you know, couldn't cut ties. The note ended so I'm not the only bad one here. So he did recognize what he did was wrong. Another note said, and this was kind of chicken shit. But Marcio, I hope you dream about it every night. By the way, police, he sells two pounds of weed and then there was plus something else but it was, it was not legible. So he then calls Marcio out for being a drug dealer. Don't sell drugs, Marcio. Allegedly. A final one said, "Tell Roj." And I think it's Roj, ROGE. Tell Roj, who I would find out later, is a Texas police officer who knew Larry's ex-wife and had arrested him before.

43:05 It said, "Tell Roj, if I could have gotten to town, he was next." So he was only an absolute death spiral of wanting to go kill all these people. But Larry would eventually recover and he would be released from the hospital where he would face trial for the charges of second degree murder. And there was a forensic psychologist named Dr. Mark Vigan, or Vi-Vigan, I don't know, V-I-G-E-N, who testified on behalf of the defense that argued Larry suffered from narcissistic personality disorder and a chemical dependency on drugs. And alcohol, we already knew that, right? We could have figured that out just listening to this. Now, he testified that Larry was very hurt and surprised and just became enraged whenever Joni rejected him finally for Marcio, especially since I guess they had been hooking up right then prior to that.

43:53 But there was something that Dr. Vigan, or Vi-Vigan, said that was really interesting to me, and I won't harp on it, but he gave this analogy to explain how someone could be acting like so impulsively, but not be in total control of the entire situation. Now I wanted to share this explanation with you. It's for you to ponder, I'm not telling you what to think, but I kind of was struck by it. He argued that Larry could distinguish between right and wrong in the sense that he was making judgments, such as not to shoot Marcio's, you know, mom because he didn't shoot at Marcio because his mother was right there. But he also said that he was going to give this analogy to try to put yourself in the shoes of Larry.

44:33 He said, "Imagine you were driving a car down the street when suddenly bees and wasps entered the car and started to attack you. The driver may have an accident or he may manage to control the car and get rid of the bees. He can still drive, he can still plan, but his planning, his judgment and his impulsiveness will be very poor." So man, on a psychological level, I thought, damn, that was pretty good explanation of what I guess Larry was going through, but, but, right, the proverbial butt, which by the way, Dr. Phil said this one time, "There's a different dream but and however. If someone says but, it means disregard everything before it.

45:15 So I love you but, I don't want to be with you means I don't love you. But if someone says, "I love you, however, I don't want to be with you," that means don't disregard what I said before it. It still counts. So I'm going to throw that big butt in here. To me, Larry, whether he was hurt or not, I'm not doubting that this man was in the throes of an all-out-emotional turmoil. No doubt whatsoever. But he carried out his actions over an extended period of time and he calculated those actions in my opinion. I mean, he didn't shoot at Marcio because his mother was behind him and he didn't want to hurt someone who he felt wasn't involved or guilty.

45:56 So that tells you there's a level of planning there and clearly to the normal person, Larry's thinking is unreasonable but it's pretty obvious that he was capable of understanding the consequences of what he did because he also begged to die multiple times and the officers and the doctors were still trying to treat him. He was begging to die. So the disorders that the doctors at trial diagnosed Larry with, you know, I'm not going to argue that what they said wasn't true. I think they made absolutely valid points. Others are not though, they did not diminish his capacity in my opinion to control his own behavior. And I know this sounds really ugly but Larry could have just killed himself. He did not have to go kill other people if he was so wounded by this. And I know that sounds ugly but it's the truth.

46:36 I feel the same thing about school shooters. No one should have bullied you. No one should have talked shit about you. But you know what? When you get to the point where you want to start hurting other people including innocent people and innocent bystanders, go fucking shoot yourself, leave the innocent people alone. So the jury agreed with this belief I have as well in that the verdict with an 11 to one favor convicted him of that second degree murder and he was sentenced to life in prison and he is still serving that sentence today at Angola. But I want to tell you something. The story doesn't end there for me because my life personally actually intersects with Larry's years later. When this case took place, I would have been a sophomore in high school.

47:19 All right, I had no concept of this. I was a dumb teenager, run around doing whatever. But years later, I had graduated college and I was working at a place known as Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola. And I know a lot of people who listen to this know bloody Angola, right? No gym and no woody and that they're slaying everything about the Angola prison. But I had a job there and I worked there in classification which means I interacted with inmates day in and day out. And one of those inmates that I interacted with was an inmate by the name of Larry Sharp. Now, I never knew Larry's case until recently. Why? Because I made it a point to not look up my inmate's cases because I didn't want it to affect me doing my job.

48:06 And we're emotional people. You have to separate the two. There is one in inmate that I did do a whole bunch of research on. I'm going to tell you all that story another day. I've got it in the books right now. You're going to like that one. But I knew Larry Sharp, DOC number 4443025. And I was stunned when I looked at this case up and I've got a visual I'm going to show you. If you're on Patreon, I'm going to let you see this, okay? But I'm kind of a sentimental person when things happen. You know, I keep little notes and I'm so glad I did because I'm able to be a better teacher as a result of it. And Larry Sharp actually wrote me and made me a card on a computer in the prison library.

48:49 And I was stunned when he gave it to me. I remember Larry and again, I didn't know the story right until I've told it to you and I researched it. And if you would have told me that he was capable of doing what I just read, you know, read to you, I would have called bullshit. Bullshit all day long. If you would have told me he maybe did embezzlement, I'd say, yeah, for sure. If you said he did some other type of white collar crime or something like that, I'd say all day long, I could see him doing it. But the Larry Sharp I met does not fit the bill of what I just read to you. And that should be important because all I do is preach in this podcast that you don't know what people are capable of when they are in the throes of a meltdown.

49:37 And just because you don't think someone is capable of doing something doesn't mean that they're not. It's insanity to think otherwise. But why did Larry give me this card? The front of it says we'll miss you. Proper grammar and everything. It's typed. And on the back it says, created expressly for and it has my name. And it's got his name in his DOC number, but he typed this, he even signed it with a smiley face. This is what the man who I just read to you, what barbarianism he just showed toward a woman. Listen what he wrote me. Miss Kelly. I appreciate the kindness, concern and compassion you showed to the inmates while working with us.

50:21 It should be an example to the other employees that these qualities can be exhibited while still doing the job in a professional manner. Sometimes just showing genuine interest in an inmate's request for a special visit or a job change can mean a lot to them. These characteristics along with your personality will ensure a successful life in the business world. Again, thank you and we will miss you. May God bless you, Larry Sharp. And I remember when he handed me this because I was leaving the prison. It was my last day working and I had not told any inmates because I was like, hey, if somebody wants to kill me, I don't want to give them the opportunity, right?

51:03 But he handed me this through a fence and I remember just being dumb struck by it that he took the time and you know, it's like the great vine in prison, y'all. I mean, they figure everything out before you, you don't have to say a word and they're going to figure it out. I still don't know how he knew. But that man went down and typed me this card and when he said, thank you for showing the kindness and the compassion and concern you showed to us. It makes you wonder, you know, where was that mentality when you pulled the trigger on Joni? You know, not once but twice.

51:43 You know, you would like that from people, Larry. And I'm so thankful I was able to show it to you because I think that if you want love, you have to give love and if you want appreciation and kindness and concern, you have to show that for other people. But I just, if this is not an example to you listening, there can be two sides to a coin listen to what I'm telling you. Time can absolutely change a person. But what about those who never got the chance to grow and change? The Larry I saw is not the Larry that did this dastardly deed but it doesn't undo it. And those that had their life brutally ended at the hands of someone in a jealous suicidal rage, this is where, you know, I genuinely struggle with the understanding of where, where does the line of forgiveness meet, unforgivable?

52:38 And Joni, y'all, she's no more. She's been gone now for almost 23 years but that in no way lessens her importance to this world. And this is a time I'll tell you, I can see it. I don't know and I don't think it's my job to decide that. It's, it's Joni's job. And the, the unchanging reality though is that she's not here to tell us how she feels or whether she would want to grant mercy to someone who so blatantly deprived it, you know, deprived her of it. My experience with Larry and older sober man is vastly different than what Joni experienced for damn sure.

53:21 And that's something that I realize daily in true crime cases. So I'll tell you this, I don't know what she would say but I do know this. Over time the axe forgets but the tree always remembers. [MUSIC] (dramatic music) (dramatic music)